Girl Sway after chemical pregnancy

[angelmamma]

Hello! Long time user here, and back again. Husband and I want to try for our second girl. We have 2 boys (4yr, 2yr) and a daughter (turning 1yr this month). I am still breastfeeding my daughter, but am ovulating most cycles. There are a couple of cycles I feel maybe my luteal phase is very very short? I currently am on CD 2. We tried last month, we ended up getting pregnant, though that resulted in a chemical pregnancy I believe (2 days of a progressing second line at 10 and 11dpo), then I unfortunately started bleeding heavily the night of 11dpo :(. Wondering if it's due to a short luteal phase due to bf my daughter? My cycles tend to be longer (38-39 days) and I seem to ovulate around CD 24-27.
I have been trying to exercise more. My issue is when I read the boy/girl sway food guides, I definitely tend to sway more blue. :/
Is there anything else I can do for a girl Sway other than changing my diet? I crave a ton of fats and carbs unfortunately. Is there any merit to taking BBT while swaying or should I just go off a positive OPK? Thank you!

[atomic sagebrush]

I'm sorry to hear that. :heart:

It's definitely a possibility that breastfeeding can cause a short LP, but if you got a positive pregnancy test, what most likely (like, 99% likely) happened is that something was not right with the pregnancy and your body pulled the plug on it. Once you're getting a positive pregnancy test, your body would have received the signal to make enough hormones to sustain it, even with breastfeeding. That didn't happen, and the reason is generally due to something just not being quite right.

Changing your diet is by far the best thing to do. Diet and exercise are the best ways to go, I wish it was easier but it's just how it seems to be. But in most cases people can eat a LOT MORE than they think on LE Diet. Some people online have spread ideas about LE Diet that are simply untrue and so if you tell me what you think the LE Diet even is, I can advise you. Additionally your macros would be higher because you're breastfeeding as well, and we can up them even more if need be to get to a place where you're eating less than you were, even if you can't get to the full on LE Diet mode.

I don't advise doing temping for swaying unless you're already doing it. It doesn't add anything for the sway, it's simply a way to know if you ovulated and when, and starting that process means you can get kind of "control freaky" about it, which sways blue. I would just use OPK.

[angelmamma]

I'm sorry to hear that. :heart:

It's definitely a possibility that breastfeeding can cause a short LP, but if you got a positive pregnancy test, what most likely (like, 99% likely) happened is that something was not right with the pregnancy and your body pulled the plug on it. Once you're getting a positive pregnancy test, your body would have received the signal to make enough hormones to sustain it, even with breastfeeding. That didn't happen, and the reason is generally due to something just not being quite right.

Changing your diet is by far the best thing to do. Diet and exercise are the best ways to go, I wish it was easier but it's just how it seems to be. But in most cases people can eat a LOT MORE than they think on LE Diet. Some people online have spread ideas about LE Diet that are simply untrue and so if you tell me what you think the LE Diet even is, I can advise you. Additionally your macros would be higher because you're breastfeeding as well, and we can up them even more if need be to get to a place where you're eating less than you were, even if you can't get to the full on LE Diet mode.

I don't advise doing temping for swaying unless you're already doing it. It doesn't add anything for the sway, it's simply a way to know if you ovulated and when, and starting that process means you can get kind of "control freaky" about it, which sways blue. I would just use OPK.

Thank you so much for your response. I apologize, I didn't see your response til now.
Would progesterone cream help lengthen my luteal phase?
Do you happen to know if the Moderna vaccine can alter a sway? I received my second shot yesterday, and terrible timing because I got my first peak yesterday morning as well. We did one attempt promptly after. Today is second day peak, but I am terribly sick (fever, aches, chills, etc). I'm wondering if we should have a second attempt since I read being sick can delay O?
My first shot with my moderna vaccine, I had my chemical pregnancy (not sure if that has anything to do with it?). Thank you!

[atomic sagebrush]

Oh gosh you never need to worry about not getting back to me, it's my job to get back to you, not the other way around!!

If your LP is short from breastfeeding it will correct on its own. I would not use progesterone cream for that reason, and it might not even work anyway (because breastfeeding creates its own set of reasons why you can't conceive yet aside from low prog). And if you were planning on the OTC cream, don't bother, as it's not the formulation needed to help with pregnancy anyway and is meant to be used for menopausal women.

We don't know if the shots can affect sways. Just beyond our ability to know. Same with safety - just not enough info as of yet.

I would wait 72 hours after your last attempt and attempt again. If that feels too risky you can give it 96 hours. That's far enough apart to still seem to count as the one attempt, but you'll be covered if you do O quite a bit later.

[angelmamma]

Well update :
I received a positive pregnancy test at 10dpo, darker this morning at 11dpo (FRER), but I started spotting today and I'm thinking now another chemical pregnancy. Not sure why this is happening now, I've never had a problem with chemicals and I've always been a pee-on-a-stick addict before. If I had chemicals while trying before, I'd certainly catch them. :/ A bit upset this is the second time in a row, both resulting in me spotting at 11dpo. Thought we had a perfect sway. One attempt at peak, LE diet, and we used lubricant.

[atomic sagebrush]

Spotting does not necessarily mean a chemical though. Obviously no one ever wants to see spotting when pregnant but it may be you're not out yet.

How much fat are you eating?? And what supplements if any are you taking?

[angelmamma]

Spotting does not necessarily mean a chemical though. Obviously no one ever wants to see spotting when pregnant but it may be you're not out yet.

How much fat are you eating?? And what supplements if any are you taking?


Definitely a period. I leaked through my overnight pad and am now having a regular-heavier bleeding today with menstrual cramps.
It's weird because this cycle I even got a positive on a digital, but my period started again. My LP only seems to be 10-11 days.
Is there anything I can do to lengthen it if it's a problem? I have a friend that stopped taking her clomid and offered me her 50mg for next cycle, should I? I saw my obgyn last month regarding my short luteal phase and he wanted to completely wean my daughter and come back in 6 months to a year before giving me anything. I have 3 children, 2 of them conceived around this time while breastfeeding, so I know my body has or can get pregnant while nursing.
I am eating 55-60g of fat and protein.
I've tried going lower, but I'm always hungry.
Also, no supplements other than the occasional prenatal (but I forget to take it most of the time). Should I be taking anything?

[atomic sagebrush]

Well, it's possible to have what appears to be a period and be pregnant the whole time. I know it sounds farfetched, and in most cases if it looks like a period it is, but many of us myself included have had full on heavy "periods" and walked away from it with babies at the end. I had a five day long, extra heavy "period" and had an 8 lb baby 9 months later. So while I agree this isn't looking good, until that test goes negative you're still in it (particularly if the test is getting darker, not lighter)

10-11 day LP is long enough to conceive. What can also happen is that if you do have a chemical, it can trigger your period to come. Doctors long operated under the erroneous assumption that if your period came "early" it meant that CAUSED the loss. But it's actually the other way around - in the vast, vast majority of cases, the pregnancy wasn't working out as it should, and your body drops progesterone as a RESULT of that and the pregnancy comes to an end (and this can trigger your period to come). This doesn't say anything about what your normal LP would have been without the loss, nor does it mean a short LP caused the loss, because if the pregnancy would have been developing normally, it would have sent a signal to your body to start making the appropriate hormones to sustain pregnancy.

Yes, doctors will immediately seize on breastfeeding as "the reason" for a short LP and demand you wean. But just like you, I got pregnant twice while breastfeeding, I've seen into the thousands of people do it, and even IF the nursing caused a shorter LP, 10-11 days is still long enough to conceive with, and if the pregnancy didn't work out in the vast majority of cases it was that something was amiss with the development. And even IF it was somehow related to breastfeeding, that will fix itself over time, the furhter you get postpartum. There is no need for most people to wean to conceive (provided they're ok with waiting till their body is ready).

I WANT everyone breastfeeding to be on 1800-2000 cals a day, 50-60 g pro and fat or even up to 65 if you need to. So that is fine in terms of your sway, and you may even want to eat a bit more to ensure you have the raw materials needed for hormone-making.

[atomic sagebrush]

Also, above I asked you some questions about diet and what you believe the LE Diet is. Many people have huge misconceptions about what the LE Diet entails and make them think they cannot sway via diet, but I can help you understand better the sort of changes to make (for instance, you're already DOING that LE Diet fat level I'd suggest anyway!)

As for Clomid, how many menstrual cycles have you had postpartum? If we use it truly too soon, and your body is not quite ready to conceive yet, it will be a waste, so I want to be sure you have a good chance of it working for you.

[angelmamma]

Hi! Thanks for you response. Confirmed period, took a pregnancy test and it was now negative. :(
I've had 5 cycles since my daughter, this will be my 6th cycle. I am 12 months postpartum. This period is actually seeming to be really short. I'm on CD 4 (since it's past midnight) and looks like my period is ending (period started slowing down to a very light bleed at CD 3), usually it's 5-7 days since my cycles have returned.

My diet -
1900-2000 calories a day
55-60g of fat and protien.
High fiber fruits and veggies, though a lot of it is green onion, bok choy, lots of peppers.
I am Chinese and my husband is Mexican, so unfortunately we do eat a lot of carbs, mostly rice for me. I've tried cutting carbs, but I've eaten rice my whole life. So much so, if I died, years from now they'll find rice in my coffin instead of ashes.
A lot of my protien comes from tofu. My diet used to consist of lots of eggs, but I've been trying to limit my eggs, about 4-5 eggs a week.
I am trying about 30 minutes of cardio a day, I know I should be doing more, but I haven't had the chance to.
Yeah, I've always had a short LP since breastfeeding,but in the bright side:
I've conceived my second son and daughter with a short luteal phase. I got a positive test at 9dpo with my second son and a positive test at 10dpo with my daughter.
What can I do to increase my odds of a sticky baby this cycle? My husband wanted to know if there'd be any merit in him taking any multi vitamins or something? Should he be abstaining or release every 2-4 days? He is 32.
Thank you!

[atomic sagebrush]

A lot of us notice our periods get lighter on the sway diet. Please don't worry that is in any way sinister or will prevent conception (some people stress over this) that is still in entirely normal range, and your period actually tells you what happened LAST month, not in the upcoming month you're about to try, anyway.

Are you counting the calories, protein, and fat in low carb veg (like bok choi, etc) and protein and fat in fruit and high carb veg (like potato)? If so, don't. Fruit and high carb veg are free for protein and fat, and low carb veg are free for everything. So if you were using them to get your limits you actually need to eat a bit more.'

Rice is totally fine! It is by far and away more fertility friendly than white bread, cookies, pastry, that kind of thing. No worries about that whatsoever.

Tofu is fine, eggs are fine too. It's the limits that matter, not the foods per se.
Normally I have people keep soy foods to 2-3 times per week as it does have that mild estrogenic effect, but most people are eating those highly processed soy protein foods and not good old tofu. Plus you are accustomed to it. I'd go right ahead with that.

Long story short, if you were worried about LE Diet becuase of rice and tofu, no need to be! All good within limits.

:agree: yes you absolutely can conceive with a short LP. Plus, just like with a period, your LP tells you what happened LAST month, not the future months, so even if you had a mighty short LP the previous month (say, 7 days, where I do start to have concerns, not 9+) there is no guarantee that would hold the NEXT month and that's when you're going to be trying anyway.

I'm ok with you using Clomid this month as it does seem your cycle is back again. You could even split the 50 mg into 25 mg and have enough for two months, though it is obviously less effective at that dose. CD 3-7 is when I normally suggest starting this but you can start it as late as CD 5 since we may be that far along already.

I think you probably should just stay the course and keep trying (adding in Clomid if yo'ud like). Please don't focus on "what can we do to increase odds of a sticky baby" because many of the things people do and take in this scenario actually do NOTHING to help and the majority of those things cause more harm than good, disrupting the cycle, even stopping ovulation, and adding to the chances of future chemicals by interfering with your body in ways we don't even totally understand.

There's no need for your husband to take a multivitamin. If these chemicals were caused by anything other than sheer bad luck (which happens all the time! So much has to go perfectly for a pregnancy to occur and it may just not have worked out) it is highly unlikely that your husband not taking a vitamin had anything to do with that. I would have him release every 2-4 days, sure. That will make a lot of healthy sperm.

What were you guys planning to do in terms of attempts??

[angelmamma]

A lot of us notice our periods get lighter on the sway diet. Please don't worry that is in any way sinister or will prevent conception (some people stress over this) that is still in entirely normal range, and your period actually tells you what happened LAST month, not in the upcoming month you're about to try, anyway.

Are you counting the calories, protein, and fat in low carb veg (like bok choi, etc) and protein and fat in fruit and high carb veg (like potato)? If so, don't. Fruit and high carb veg are free for protein and fat, and low carb veg are free for everything. So if you were using them to get your limits you actually need to eat a bit more.'

Rice is totally fine! It is by far and away more fertility friendly than white bread, cookies, pastry, that kind of thing. No worries about that whatsoever.

Tofu is fine, eggs are fine too. It's the limits that matter, not the foods per se.
Normally I have people keep soy foods to 2-3 times per week as it does have that mild estrogenic effect, but most people are eating those highly processed soy protein foods and not good old tofu. Plus you are accustomed to it. I'd go right ahead with that.

Long story short, if you were worried about LE Diet becuase of rice and tofu, no need to be! All good within limits.

:agree: yes you absolutely can conceive with a short LP. Plus, just like with a period, your LP tells you what happened LAST month, not the future months, so even if you had a mighty short LP the previous month (say, 7 days, where I do start to have concerns, not 9+) there is no guarantee that would hold the NEXT month and that's when you're going to be trying anyway.

I'm ok with you using Clomid this month as it does seem your cycle is back again. You could even split the 50 mg into 25 mg and have enough for two months, though it is obviously less effective at that dose. CD 3-7 is when I normally suggest starting this but you can start it as late as CD 5 since we may be that far along already.

I think you probably should just stay the course and keep trying (adding in Clomid if yo'ud like). Please don't focus on "what can we do to increase odds of a sticky baby" because many of the things people do and take in this scenario actually do NOTHING to help and the majority of those things cause more harm than good, disrupting the cycle, even stopping ovulation, and adding to the chances of future chemicals by interfering with your body in ways we don't even totally understand.

There's no need for your husband to take a multivitamin. If these chemicals were caused by anything other than sheer bad luck (which happens all the time! So much has to go perfectly for a pregnancy to occur and it may just not have worked out) it is highly unlikely that your husband not taking a vitamin had anything to do with that. I would have him release every 2-4 days, sure. That will make a lot of healthy sperm.

What were you guys planning to do in terms of attempts??

Thanks for your response! Yes, I have been counting every calorie. I will stop counting the veggies and fruits, thanks! Should I be counting the tofu?
I know you said that your menses and LP are indicators of last cycle, what do you mean by that? Does that indicate a hormonal or lining issue from last cycle if it's different or off?
I wasn't sure and since I'm now at the end of CD5, I will take the clomid next cycle if this cycle doesn't work in our favor. Can I just break the pills in half for 25mg? If I were to take a smaller dose, would I still have to stop after 5-6months theoretically?
In terms of attempts, we were planning to do what we did the last two cycles: BD once at my first peak. Should I be trying earlier, like at a high instead of peak?
Thank you!

[LindaLaetitia]

Hey Angelmama, i read your thread , it is very interesting. But i wonder, why do you want to use clomid ? You get positive pregnancy tests - so there is no issue to get pregnant ? I personally think - its only my opinion - the problem is being pregnant while breastfeeding AND calorie restriction. Maybe it s too much for you body now.

[atomic sagebrush]

Yes, do count the protein and fat in tofu. It's just that the protein and fat in fruit and veg is very minimal (the government basically rounds up these minimal amounts that the body really cannot use to 1 g, well if people are eating a lot of fruit and veg, this ends up eating into their ability to eat real foods) and as for the calories in low carb veg they're mostly fiber and not much else anyway, and you have to eat a literal mountain of them before they amount to anything. Just have the low carb veg freely, no need to count.

Your LP and period are reflective hormonally of what happened in the cycle BEFORE. The period is the lining you built early in that cycle, the LP has to do with what your body is doing hormonally in that cycle, and they really tell you little about what is happening in FUTURE cycles. Once the period comes, a new cycle with a different hormonal profile begins, and even tho we do generally have patterns, they can and do change all the time and so what happened in the past does not mean that any such issue (which I do not think exists for you anyway!) would continue on forever more. It doesn't even mean anything for the very next cycle!

I mention this because a lot of people worry that lighter periods and short LP in previous months may indicate something dire about their ability to conceive in future, but it really doesn't. I just wanted to set your mind at ease about that.

yes, you can split the pills to get 25 mg. It may be less effective but many people do still see benefits from it at 25. Your call to make. Yes, you'd still have to stop after 5-6 months and we want you to be successfully pregnant by then, so if you have enough of the 50 for that long I'd just take the 50 anyway. I guess I was assuming you only had the one month of 50.

It's your call to make re attempts. I do like to see you guys go to every 4 day method (in the 72 hour pattern) at some point but this is a different situation because you DID get pregnant. So if you wanted to try for at least one month with one attempt at first positive OPK (NOT HIGH, that will really cut odds of conception) I'm ok with that.

[atomic sagebrush]

Hey Angelmama, i read your thread , it is very interesting. But i wonder, why do you want to use clomid ? You get positive pregnancy tests - so there is no issue to get pregnant ? I personally think - its only my opinion - the problem is being pregnant while breastfeeding AND calorie restriction. Maybe it s too much for you body now.

Clomid has been shown to raise progesterone in the luteal phase, extending the luteal phase for many people, and that's actually one of the most common reasons it is prescribed. It also encourages a big burst of estrogen suddenly that may help make a "better" ovulation by helping the egg mature and be ovulated more quickly, limiting its exposure to hormones that may mess it up (or that is the theory, the truth is doctors don't actually know, they just see better rates of pregnancy when they use it.)

Clomid is used all the time in people who have had chemicals + short LP, and in fact short LP while ovulating is the second most common reason why it is used (the first of course being people who aren't ovulating).

People get pregnant while breastfeeding all the time. The poster already did it twice. I did it twice. Generally speaking, anyone who is having fairly regular menstrual cycles while breastfeeding with LP of 9-10 days or more is able to successfully conceive while breastfeeding. When someone cannot sustain a pregnancy while nursing, we see them having somewhat long cycles with VERY short LP like 3-5 days (and they cannot get pregnant that way anyway - getting pregnant and having a chemical is NOT the type of pattern we see with nursing moms who aren't able to conceive while breastfeeding, it's not ovulating regularly and then having a super short LP)

Doctors like to seize on breastfeeding because people have an "ick factor" about nursing while pregnant and because it's a way for a doctor to make people think fertility issues are their fault when the doctor has no way to help. But it's really something that is fine and possible for most people to do.

We are fixing her calorie restriction and hopefully things in the diet department will be squared away shortly.

[angelmamma]

Hey Angelmama, i read your thread , it is very interesting. But i wonder, why do you want to use clomid ? You get positive pregnancy tests - so there is no issue to get pregnant ? I personally think - its only my opinion - the problem is being pregnant while breastfeeding AND calorie restriction. Maybe it s too much for you body now.

I was curious about clomid since I read that delayed ovulation may be correlated to lower egg quality since they may be exposed to different hormones. I read that clomid will help women ovulation closer to the 14 CD mark and helps with a longer LP, which mine tends to be shorter. I ovulated CD 19 last cycle, which was the earliest I ever have since my daughter. The cycle before was o at CD 29. My hope was that it would help me O closer to CD 14.

[angelmamma]

Yes, do count the protein and fat in tofu. It's just that the protein and fat in fruit and veg is very minimal (the government basically rounds up these minimal amounts that the body really cannot use to 1 g, well if people are eating a lot of fruit and veg, this ends up eating into their ability to eat real foods) and as for the calories in low carb veg they're mostly fiber and not much else anyway, and you have to eat a literal mountain of them before they amount to anything. Just have the low carb veg freely, no need to count.

Your LP and period are reflective hormonally of what happened in the cycle BEFORE. The period is the lining you built early in that cycle, the LP has to do with what your body is doing hormonally in that cycle, and they really tell you little about what is happening in FUTURE cycles. Once the period comes, a new cycle with a different hormonal profile begins, and even tho we do generally have patterns, they can and do change all the time and so what happened in the past does not mean that any such issue (which I do not think exists for you anyway!) would continue on forever more. It doesn't even mean anything for the very next cycle!

I mention this because a lot of people worry that lighter periods and short LP in previous months may indicate something dire about their ability to conceive in future, but it really doesn't. I just wanted to set your mind at ease about that.

yes, you can split the pills to get 25 mg. It may be less effective but many people do still see benefits from it at 25. Your call to make. Yes, you'd still have to stop after 5-6 months and we want you to be successfully pregnant by then, so if you have enough of the 50 for that long I'd just take the 50 anyway. I guess I was assuming you only had the one month of 50.

It's your call to make re attempts. I do like to see you guys go to every 4 day method (in the 72 hour pattern) at some point but this is a different situation because you DID get pregnant. So if you wanted to try for at least one month with one attempt at first positive OPK (NOT HIGH, that will really cut odds of conception) I'm ok with that.

Thanks for your response! I have been counting everything, including the tofu. I will stop counting the bok choy, peppers and onions.
I have 10 pills of clomisign, 50mg. Is that the right brand? I'm holding onto them for possibly next cycle if we're unsuccessful this time around.
As for re attempts, I kept reading on your articles that 1 attempt is best, but that was a few years ago. Is the one attempt less recommended now?
Also, usually I get two days of "high" fertility, then two days of "peak". Sometimes my husband won't get home til midnight, so would it be better odds wise to BD at the second high, or at Peak (but about 8-12 hours later). My worry is that we will miss the egg. Husband thinks we should attempt at the second high and then again when he gets home at night after "Peak". Would that change our sway to blue?

[atomic sagebrush]

I was curious about clomid since I read that delayed ovulation may be correlated to lower egg quality since they may be exposed to different hormones. I read that clomid will help women ovulation closer to the 14 CD mark and helps with a longer LP, which mine tends to be shorter. I ovulated CD 19 last cycle, which was the earliest I ever have since my daughter. The cycle before was o at CD 29. My hope was that it would help me O closer to CD 14.

Though the "delayed ovulation = poor egg quality" is VASTLY overblown (and is really more of a result of the reasons WHY people have delayed ovulation - people with severe PCOS have poor egg quality AND delayed ovulation, and for a long time this tricked doctors into thinking it was the delayed O that caused poor egg quality when really they're just coincidental) I do want to put your mind at ease that your ovulation is really not delayed in the way that was once believed to indicate poor egg quality. Ovulation any time within 21 days is considered normal, and up to 35 days is considered late but still in average range. While I do think the Clomid may be helpful to you I don't want you stressing over a problem that doesn't exist. :)

[atomic sagebrush]

Any brand, as long as it's clomiphene citrate (which it is)

One attempt is still recommended to start with but many people cannot seem to get pregnant with one attempt. We started using the e4d method a few years ago now and have had good results with it - and it IS basically one attempt, just an easier way to do that which helps boost chances of conception...many times, people were failing to get pregnant with one attempt because they were missing ovulation totally, having attempts too soon or too late, and the e4d means they're having attempts all month and can catch the eggs they otherwise would have missed. PLUS, and this is most important, we want to maximize your chances of conceiving while on the Clomid due to its pink sway effects.

Two attempts is somewhat more blue friendly than one, but we still get more girls than boys with two. It was THREE attempts in that fertile window that really cut the odds. The thing is you've been at this a while now and that, coupled with the Clomid, means you need to be in with a decent chance of conceiving. Rather than do what your husband suggests, I would have you do the e4d pattern plus one more attempt at first peak OPK. That way, if you're really mistiming the one attempt (which happens quite a lot) you will still be in with a chance. Both false negative OPK and false positive OPK are possible, and even a couple days error in either direction means you will miss the egg totally. So I would, starting after your last dose of Clomid if you use it OR your period ends if you don't, have sex every 72 hours and then IF YOU WANT add in one more attempt at first peak OPK while continuing with the every 72 hour pattern before and after (don't reset the pattern). You can if you prefer give it a month or two of just e4d before adding that second attempt BUT if you take Clomid I'd try at least one month with the e4d plus one.

And just to set your mind at ease, this CANNOT be three attempts, even though it sounds like it's three attempts. We have found that the fertile window is much narrower than some sites/researchers have claimed and this is especially true with Clomid as it makes EWCM less. So even in the "worst case" scenario which is sex O-3, peak OPK, and O Day, this can't be more than two attempts, because if there was anything left from the O-3 attempt, that or the peak OPK attempt would already have fertilized the egg before the O Day shot could have been deposited and capacitated, and if there isn't, only then will the O Day shot have a chance. No matter what, 2 attempts at most.

Having sex at the "high" reading is significantly lower chances of conception. Please have attempt at first peak. You aren't missing the egg, this comes 24-36 hours before ovulation, and sex before ovulation has better chances of fertilizing the egg than sex at or after ovulation does. But since there can be false positive and false negative OPK, you should try the e4d pattern to cover yourself in case the peak is not reliable, if htat makes sense.

All that having been said if you guys do prefer to do it your husband's way that's not the end of the world at all, just be sure you're not having that first attempt too soon - one of the problems with having sex on the "high" reading is that you can get many days of high, or go straight to peak with no highs, so then that adds a bunch of stress and confusion to the mix. Just go in having a mental plan in place what you will do if you end up getting 3+ high readings and have already had sex on the second high, and also what you'll do if you go to peak!

[angelmamma]

Though the "delayed ovulation = poor egg quality" is VASTLY overblown (and is really more of a result of the reasons WHY people have delayed ovulation - people with severe PCOS have poor egg quality AND delayed ovulation, and for a long time this tricked doctors into thinking it was the delayed O that caused poor egg quality when really they're just coincidental) I do want to put your mind at ease that your ovulation is really not delayed in the way that was once believed to indicate poor egg quality. Ovulation any time within 21 days is considered normal, and up to 35 days is considered late but still in average range. While I do think the Clomid may be helpful to you I don't want you stressing over a problem that doesn't exist. :)

Thanks so much for your response. So update: CD 12 and I received a "High" fertility reading on my Clear Blue Fertility Monitor. Which is so odd since this is so early for me, no fertile CM, and I took a non digital OPK (easy@home) since I was confused and the second line is very faint, so not even close to positive. Usually for me the test sticks slowly get darker over time.
My pattern usually is two high, two peak. Do you recommend lube since my CM is non-existent? I know you've said that pre - seed sways blue, what other brands do you recommend?
My husband is working a lot this week, so looks like it'll be one attempt at peak whether we like it or not

[atomic sagebrush]

You can get many days of "high" before going to peak on Clearblue. I would ~suspect~ that is probably what may happen this time, but it absolutely can still

It is normal to get a negative on a non-digi OPK when you have a high on Clearblue. The non-digi's work differently and so it's very often that people will get those high readings and a stark white non-digi OPK. Even if you normally get a fade in there's no guarantee of that happening every month.

I know it's weird when you have a typical cycle and then it changes, but this can happen at any point in time, especially when swaying. I would always operate under the assumption that you could O at any time in the fertile window really, even if it's earlier than you expect.

Just use small amounts of Preseed. Lubes come in two varieties - those that sway blue and spermkillers, LOL. But luckily we have found that small amounts (like, the smallest amount you can get away with) of Preseed and similar products like Conceive Plus are working well as a lube for pink swayers who need them. It's more the large amounts you need to watch out for.

[angelmamma]

You can get many days of "high" before going to peak on Clearblue. I would ~suspect~ that is probably what may happen this time, but it absolutely can still

It is normal to get a negative on a non-digi OPK when you have a high on Clearblue. The non-digi's work differently and so it's very often that people will get those high readings and a stark white non-digi OPK. Even if you normally get a fade in there's no guarantee of that happening every month.

I know it's weird when you have a typical cycle and then it changes, but this can happen at any point in time, especially when swaying. I would always operate under the assumption that you could O at any time in the fertile window really, even if it's earlier than you expect.

Just use small amounts of Preseed. Lubes come in two varieties - those that sway blue and spermkillers, LOL. But luckily we have found that small amounts (like, the smallest amount you can get away with) of Preseed and similar products like Conceive Plus are working well as a lube for pink swayers who need them. It's more the large amounts you need to watch out for.

You're right! This is day 4 of "High Fertility", however yesterday I had tons of Ewcm and today (zero cm before). I woke up extra early since my daughter started walking and now has decided to live like our local farmer and wake up right at dawn.
I tested when I woke up and received a negative on my opk. It seems more lh ends up on my test when I test later in the day, such as the afternoon. My test has gotten much darker on the opk strips, but not quite positive yet.
My clear blue fertility monitor only allows me to test once a day, from 6am - 11am.
I'll be honest, my husband and I had a date night last night since the kids went to bed early and ended up BD. So should I wait 4 days regardless of my test results? Second, *if* your advice is to not wait the 4 days, should we BD at peak if I receive it later today in the afternoon? Or wait til my cbfm says Peak in the morning if it happens? Thank you！

[atomic sagebrush]

It's your call to make. For better chance of conception, I would absolutely have another attempt. For better chance of pink, you might want to wait (meaning, if the peak comes within the next 48 hours, stick with attempt you've had. If it's 96 hours or more later before the peak shows, have another attempt. And if it's 72 hours or so later, use the rule of thumb "for best chance of conception have attempt, for best chance of pink, stick with the attempt I've had" but do know that will likely be lowish chances of conception.)

And if all that sounds like a lot, just flip a coin and do what the coin says! Remove the control freakishness out of it. :)

[angelmamma]

It's your call to make. For better chance of conception, I would absolutely have another attempt. For better chance of pink, you might want to wait (meaning, if the peak comes within the next 48 hours, stick with attempt you've had. If it's 96 hours or more later before the peak shows, have another attempt. And if it's 72 hours or so later, use the rule of thumb "for best chance of conception have attempt, for best chance of pink, stick with the attempt I've had" but do know that will likely be lowish chances of conception.)

And if all that sounds like a lot, just flip a coin and do what the coin says! Remove the control freakishness out of it. :)

Thanks for your response, we ended up doing an attempt at peak. My lh surge was very early the next morning. Now I'm kinda regretting it since I keep reading one attempt is golden.
I will update in 2 weeks the results. I plan to hold on testing til 12-14dpo this time. I started bleeding on 11dpo the past two cycles, after my positive tests. So I'm hoping my will power will let me wait til 14dpo, but at the very least 12-13dpo to test *if* I don't start bleeding by then. *crosses fingers*

[atomic sagebrush]

I like you guys to START with one attempt but over time we go to e4d and then e4d plus one. Our good results are all in people doing first one attempt, then e4d, then e4d plus one (and quite a few of our swayers do not conceive with one attempt, and have to go on to e4d and e4d plus one to conceive, so this is not a small number of people, either!) We still have good results with two attempts!

[angelmamma]

I like you guys to START with one attempt but over time we go to e4d and then e4d plus one. Our good results are all in people doing first one attempt, then e4d, then e4d plus one (and quite a few of our swayers do not conceive with one attempt, and have to go on to e4d and e4d plus one to conceive, so this is not a small number of people, either!) We still have good results with two attempts!

Thanks, atomic. 6dpo and am dyyyyinggg. Why does the 2ww feel like eternity? I had my husband hide the tests until 12dpo since I have no self control. Lol. Hoping I don't start bleeding before then. My husband read that pineapple and bromelain can aid implantation, is that true? I didn't take any, but it was tempting.

[atomic sagebrush]

It's fine to eat a fresh pineapple including the core but please don't take bromelain. It's a highly concentrated form of what is in the pineapple anyway, but your body isn't meant to have it that concentrated. Your body knows how to implant a pregnancy without the benefit of super concentrated herbal supplements (all of which have risks and side effects many of which are completely unknown.) In the case of bromelain, it's a blood thinner (as are many things said to "aid implantation") and having too thin blood is just as bad, if not worse, for a new pregnancy than too thick blood is!

If you must do something, eat a pineapple. Nothing beyond that.

[angelmamma]

It's fine to eat a fresh pineapple including the core but please don't take bromelain. It's a highly concentrated form of what is in the pineapple anyway, but your body isn't meant to have it that concentrated. Your body knows how to implant a pregnancy without the benefit of super concentrated herbal supplements (all of which have risks and side effects many of which are completely unknown.) In the case of bromelain, it's a blood thinner (as are many things said to "aid implantation") and having too thin blood is just as bad, if not worse, for a new pregnancy than too thick blood is!

If you must do something, eat a pineapple. Nothing beyond that.

Update: Well I caved at 10dpo and got a BFP! Hoping this one sticks!

[atomic sagebrush]

EXCELLENT!! Huge congrats and pink dust headed your way!

[Dreamingofpink01]

Update: Well I caved at 10dpo and got a BFP! Hoping this one sticks!

Hi there. Just want to say congratulations on getting your bfp, I just read through your thread as I too just went through a chemical pregnancy at 15 dpo. Girl sway. It’s so hard when you find out you’re pregnant and envision your next baby to have that taken away from you so soon. It’s definitely a whirlwind few weeks and like watching paint dry trying to figure out if you’re even pregnant.
Did you go on to try the same cycle after your chemicals? Was your ovulation date any different?


2 DS [emoji186]
Praying for DD [emoji166]

[angelmamma]

Update:

Took the Maternit21 NIPT test and the tests came back:
BOY 💙

Baby seems healthy which I'm ecstatic about! Maybe next time we'll get a girl! 💙

[atomic sagebrush]

Huge congrats on your new son! I'll be here if you need help with another sway in future!