Boy Sway

[lrobbo90]

Hi all,

So glad I can across this site - there is a lot of information to take in hah!

I already have a wonderful girl, aged 8. My husband and I (both 31) will be trying for our final baby and would love to have a boy added to our family.

I have MS (stable) and am currently on monthly infusions (Tysabri) which apparently interferes with menatrual cycles, so I've already got some ovulation sticks to keep me right hah! We know this one is our last baby as I can't risk relapsing further.

I have been taking Pregnacare conception vitamins daily for about a month, just came off the mini pill last week, to be greeted with some dark blood this morning which I can only assume is a withdrawal bleed?

I have no idea if medications can alter your pH, however I've been drinking lemon water and green tea (not much of a change there!) and recently cut down on my milk intake (I normally drink tea and eat cereals on a morning but really don't like milk substitutes!). I also never drink fizzy drinks, should I take this up hah?!

As for food - my BMI is 18, however I've always been super slight and really struggle putting on weight - I do go to the gym and lift weights (body fat is also low for a woman at 18%) and have very recently started protein shakes (388cals, 31g protein, 50g carbs) to try and put some weight on!! I had a relapse the other year and lost muscle mass, so been working on rebuilding that.

I eat tons of carbs (pasta, potatoes, bread), I feel like I can't function without them, lunch is normally sandwiches and crisps - also I eat too many biscuits and chocolate hah (oops!).

Can anybody suggest what I will need to change, in order to better my chances of having a little boy?

It might be worth noting my husband has taken men's vitamins for years, would he still need to take fertility ones instead/also?

Any help is appreciated, and thank you so much in advance! [emoji3590]






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[lrobbo90]

Thought I'd add, although I eat quite a lot of biscuits and rubbish, I also snack a lot on nuts, and eat cheese on a night [emoji85] do I need to curb the cheese?! And maybe the nuts?

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[lrobbo90]

Any hints and tips would be really appreciated! :)

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[atomic sagebrush]

I'm not really a fan of Pregnacare (it has higher levels of some nutrients than I would like in it) but since you've been on it a while I'm inclined to have you continue. I'm afraid if you stop taking it now that would be seen as a decline in nutrients. Be aware it can contribute to abnormally long cycles so it may not be just the Tysabri causing that.

If it's ok with your doc, I'd like you on a total of 1000 IU Vit. D daily (same for your husband). Since the Pregnacare has 400 you'd need to add 600 more.

Yep, that sounds like a withdrawal bleed! :bluecheer: :bluecheer: :bluecheer:

Milk is actually believed to be ok. The "mineral balancing" diets are biologically impossible, make claims that are not how the human body even works, and are based on animals like sea worms and toads that don't even reproduce in the same way as humans do, and have the ability to change their gender from male to female and back again. We have had very good results with full fat dairy ONLY (no skim or part skim dairy.) If you aren't comfy with doing that, it's your call to make.

Breakfast cereal is the ONLY food ever shown to sway blue (in a very good study done at Oxford.) Please keep eating that cereal with full fat milk!

Along those same lines, YES cheese and nuts are both GREAT sway additions. They are nutrient dense and that's perfect for blue. When I got my younger two sons, I was eating massive amounts of both cheese and nuts (and yogurt!)

No need to drink fizzy drinks, that doesn't help anyone's blue sway!

What vitamins is your husband on?

Lemon water and green tea are both great for blue. I would suggest taking more like 2000 mcg folic acid or folate total (if that is ok for you with your health) to compensate because green tea is notorious for blocking absorption of folic acid. If you're not comfortable with that I'd likely ditch the green tea or limit it to 2 cups per day (and take your vitamin at another time of day from when you drink the tea.)

Since you are already petite, it's FINE for you to eat carbs. I have four boys and I eat GOBS of carbs. We just need to make sure you're getting enough protein, fat, and other nutrients in ADDITION to the carbs. Always try to make the choice with the most goodness packed into it.

What kind of protein is in the protein shake?

pH doesn't work anyway so no worries about your medication - you NEED it!

What were you planning on having in terms of your attempts??

[lrobbo90]

I'm not really a fan of Pregnacare (it has higher levels of some nutrients than I would like in it) but since you've been on it a while I'm inclined to have you continue. I'm afraid if you stop taking it now that would be seen as a decline in nutrients. Be aware it can contribute to abnormally long cycles so it may not be just the Tysabri causing that.

If it's ok with your doc, I'd like you on a total of 1000 IU Vit. D daily (same for your husband). Since the Pregnacare has 400 you'd need to add 600 more.

Yep, that sounds like a withdrawal bleed! :bluecheer: :bluecheer: :bluecheer:

Milk is actually believed to be ok. The "mineral balancing" diets are biologically impossible, make claims that are not how the human body even works, and are based on animals like sea worms and toads that don't even reproduce in the same way as humans do, and have the ability to change their gender from male to female and back again. We have had very good results with full fat dairy ONLY (no skim or part skim dairy.) If you aren't comfy with doing that, it's your call to make.

Breakfast cereal is the ONLY food ever shown to sway blue (in a very good study done at Oxford.) Please keep eating that cereal with full fat milk!

Along those same lines, YES cheese and nuts are both GREAT sway additions. They are nutrient dense and that's perfect for blue. When I got my younger two sons, I was eating massive amounts of both cheese and nuts (and yogurt!)

No need to drink fizzy drinks, that doesn't help anyone's blue sway!

What vitamins is your husband on?

Lemon water and green tea are both great for blue. I would suggest taking more like 2000 mcg folic acid or folate total (if that is ok for you with your health) to compensate because green tea is notorious for blocking absorption of folic acid. If you're not comfortable with that I'd likely ditch the green tea or limit it to 2 cups per day (and take your vitamin at another time of day from when you drink the tea.)

Since you are already petite, it's FINE for you to eat carbs. I have four boys and I eat GOBS of carbs. We just need to make sure you're getting enough protein, fat, and other nutrients in ADDITION to the carbs. Always try to make the choice with the most goodness packed into it.

What kind of protein is in the protein shake?

pH doesn't work anyway so no worries about your medication - you NEED it!

What were you planning on having in terms of your attempts??

I have been doing some ovulation tests, and I've jumped from 0% to 63% today! Definitely feels like something is going on - the sticks I'm using are classing this as high, do I need to wait for it to be peak before DTD?

With having MS I've been taking 4000IU since I was about 17, hoping that's not too much?! My husband also takes the 4000IU.

The bleed was a lot shorter than I anticipated, only last maybe a day and a half to two days.

That's good to hear hah, I have always used full fat milk, for cereals and cooking hah! Good to hear I can keep that one, and the cheese and nute hah, yay!!

My husband takes Wellman Original, we weren't sure if he'd need to swap to the fertility ones?

Again, I take about 1200 folic acid with having the MS, I have a feeling this helpsme keep stable to be honest too, along with ther vitamin D :)

The protein shakes are whey protein, made up of ground oats (63%) protein blenc (28%) cocoa powder and sucralose is the sweetener.

I'm so sorry but I don't understand the last question hah!

[atomic sagebrush]

When you give me % and say "my sticks are calling this high" are you referring to one of the apps?? The apps are really not reliable so if you're using an app please proceed with caution.

If you want timing for your sway (which does not work, but many still want to use it) you'd wait for the first positive and then have attempts the night of the first positive, that next morning if you can, and again the same night (so 2x the next day, which for most people would be O Day). Then one more time the next day to guard against delayed ovulation, then every other day for a few go rounds if you can just in case your first positive OPK was a false positive.

SO IF you are using the app, be aware that what the apps call "peak" is by NO ONE'S definition other than the app makers, a "peak". They are, for some inexplicable reason, calling the darkest OPK a "peak". But peak fertility is the 2-3 day time period starting after the first positive OPK and NOT the darkest. Do not wait for the darkest OPK or consider that your peak fertile time, in many cases the egg is already dead by the time people get their darkest OPK.

I'm a-ok with you continuing at a higher dose of Vitamin D! I can't tell people to take that high a dose without their doc's input but yes please continue with that. Sways blue. Same with folic acid, totally fine with that dose but I would def. consider more if you're having mroe than just the occasional green tea. Green tea really can interfere with folic acid.

I'm really not a fan of Wellman products. They have massive doses of some things, not enough of others (I would suggest more like 1000 mg carnitine, 500 arginine, for instance, and 100 mg coq10...you can take the coq10 too if it's ok for you, but skip the carnitine and arginine, that's for men only) and the ginseng which we have mixed evidence as to safety and efficacy. I would prefer something like Men's Over 50 Centrum which does not have those megadoses, and then the other nutrients taken separately. But again, if he's been on that a long time, you may just want to have him continue because he's likely adjusted to the high doses.

Sucralose may sway pink but otherwise they're ok. Whey and oat powder is good.

I was asking more what we just talked about - when you were planning to have sex, how many times, etc.

[lrobbo90]

Oooh I see hah!! So, he's not highly sexual at all, so earlier on he has "cleared out the pipes" as it had been about 12 days, and we hope to try 48 hours later, on Saturday morning and night, and hopefully Sunday morning too - that's in the hope I'm still at peak stage tomorrow when I do another test (didn't realise they weren't as accurate as I initially thought!)

I feel like there is so much to take in hah! Thanks for all of your help so far, I really appreciate it!


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[atomic sagebrush]

In future cycles if there's any way to get him to "clean the pipes" more often than every 12 days that would be great. While I normally have people aim at more like every 2-4 days for blue, that's probably not going to happen for you guys so ANYTHING sooner than 12 days, even if it's only 6-7 days apart, will still help.

The tests are...ok, not ideal but ok...it's those darn apps that are the bigger issue. I am happy to help you interpret your OPK at any point, just don't go off the apps because they're telling people "peak" when those folks are 1-2 or even more days PAST what all Natural Family Planning experts have always considered "peak" and that's what all the info on swaying and TTC is based on - NOT some dumb app that was written by people who don't understand fertility and that didn't exist till 2 years ago, LOL.

It feels like a lot at first but stick with me, I'll answer as many q's as you have till it falls into place.

[lrobbo90]

Thanks atomic :)!

We dtd this morning, and plan to again tonight and tomorrow morning. My lh levels were still high this morning, just done another test and I'm now 'low'. Cervical mucus has turned up a notch too, really like stretchy egg white today. Dunno if that's anything to go off mind! Yesterday I had dull aches in my lower abdomen, and this morning was like I had a stitch! I felt my cervix too (which I don't like doing hah!) but I feel like it was quite low, so god knows what's going on this month hah!

Aaah I guess we'll see, if it doesn't happen this month, there is always the months ahead when we will both be more prepared :)

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[lrobbo90]

This was my strip last night at apparently 130% it apparently then reduced to 60% this morning and it's now 0%https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210611/0cce57f1ddff8bb4bd14c971bbac6f8c.jpg

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[atomic sagebrush]

Yeah, those percentages are complete garbage, they're meaningless.

Does it really make any sense to you that (as the apps claim) you go back and forth from high to low and yet it's telling you "low" even as you have EWCM?? Their claims make NO SENSE, zero, none, they're quantifying things (wrongfully) that cannot be quantified! This is most likely measuring the concentration of your urine and not the levels of LH in your blood.

PLEASE just go off the rule of how OPK work - once you get a line that is as dark or darker than control line, that is a positive (or PEAK, as the word peak has been used for decades till these apps were made)

That looks like a positive test to me. So absolutely yes please please have attempts now!

[atomic sagebrush]

Just a general PSA for anyone reading this thread - if you are coming into O and you're having EWCM and your app is telling you you have magically gone from "high" to "low" fertility overnight, and giving you some completely made up BS percentage, please delete your app.

In fact, just delete your apps anyway as every single one I've seen so far is garbage that is causing unwanted pregnancies, preventing pregnancy in people who are trying to conceive, and is messing up the sways people want to have.

[Rf1927]

Just a general PSA for anyone reading this thread - if you are coming into O and you're having EWCM and your app is telling you you have magically gone from "high" to "low" fertility overnight, and giving you some completely made up BS percentage, please delete your app.

In fact, just delete your apps anyway as every single one I've seen so far is garbage that is causing unwanted pregnancies, preventing pregnancy in people who are trying to conceive, and is messing up the sways people want to have.



Agree agree agree!!!

I’m so glad I log my opks independent of these apps (I put them in the apps too and they are completely contradictory)

[atomic sagebrush]

Great info, thanks.

I am told the photo feature of the app is super handy and useful. I wish they would have attached that feature to the correct information!!!

[Rf1927]

I usually check and recheck the same sample 3 times and it’s often different readings all taken at the same time haha

Attached an example

The first two cd16 tests are the exact same test photos taken within seconds of each other hahaha 43355

[atomic sagebrush]

EXACTLY!!!

People don't realize this, but there is often huge variation in the tests themselves. Something as simple as a little more or a little less dye, or even something as innocent as the amount of time you dip the test and the depths it's dipped to, can make a difference in the outcome!

THANK YOU for posting! Perfect illustration.

[lrobbo90]

This might be a stupid question [emoji85] my LH dropped dramatically on Saturday, and has since not even given me a line... Does that confirm that ovulation did actually happen? I'm 3dpo at the moment and this two week wait is already killing me hah [emoji15]

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[atomic sagebrush]

You have probably ovulated but to answer your question more specifically, your OPK going negative doesn't necessarily mean ovulation has occurred. The OPK really do not tell us what's going on in the ovary department, it tells us about the level of hormone your body is excreting in urine. The hormone is a signal to ovulate, and then ovulation will occur 24-36 hours on average, but as long as 48-72 hours in a pretty large minority (and delayed ovulation can be even LONGER). This happens regardless of what is registering on the OPK.

So sometimes, people can still be excreting this hormone after ovulation, or the hormone has come and gone and the body just hasn't dropped the egg yet.

Long story short, it's possible to ovulate and still have a positive test, and it's also possible for your test to go negative prior to ovulation occurring. You just can't tell based on the OPK.

But of course eventually the hormone WILL run out after ovulation, and the tests will go negative. That's likely where you're at now. Just that we cannot tell that on the basis of the OPK alone.

[lrobbo90]

So I’ve come on early this month, I feel okay about it as it’s my first month off the pill and also means I can prepare a bit more!

Atomic, can you recommend any other vitamins I should be taking on top of prenatal ones? Should my partner take specific conceptions vitamins too?

I’m so unsure about when I ovulated as I feel like we missed it - I had cramps on the Wednesday and Thursday, I apparently “peaked” on the Thursday but we didn’t manage to have sex until the Friday. I also had no ewcm with a low cervix, which may be in part to just coming off the pill maybe?

Hopefully next time :) !


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[atomic sagebrush]

Yep I'd suspect that the lack of CM is due to coming off the pill. The cervix position can be tricky even without that complication.

When did your period arrive in relation to when you got the positive OPK?

What prenatals are you taking? Are you already taking anything else?

I like to see men on a nice all around vitamin (NOT a "conception vitamin" which usually have too much of the wrong things in them) like Men's One a Day over 50 or Centrum Men's over 50. I like the nutrient breakdowns of the over 50 ones.

[lrobbo90]

I thought that might have been the culprit hah! To be honest I can’t say much on the position cos it’s not something I have ever checked hah!

So I got a positive OPK on the Wednesday but the line wasn’t darker than the test line until Thursday night and Friday morning. It disappeared a few hours later!

I currently take the Pregnacare ones, I know you’re not a fan however I’m now onto my third pack! He currently takes Wellman and has since about January, is it worth changing him over?


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[atomic sagebrush]

Yes, if you've never checked the position then it's really hard to tell what's going on.

The tests are positive once the lines are the SAME color. We don't have to wait for the one to be darker. I would count the positive as happening on Wednesday.

We probably discussed this already but if you're already used to them and aren't seeing any changes in the cycle just carry on with the Pregnacare. Same with your husband, if he's been on them a long time he's probably adjusted to the levels by now.

I would have him add in 500 mg arginine, 1000 mg carnitine.

For both of you, take no more than 500 mg fish oil or DHA, 100 mg coq10, probiotic daily.

You can take up to 2000 mcg folic acid or folate all thru the entire first tri of pregnancy and then wean off (your husband does not need this).

[lrobbo90]

Fab, thank you so much for your help, we’re on it [emoji846]

In terms of actual swaying, do you believe that diet is the major factor as opposed to timing/pH etc.? I’m just trying to figure out which path we’re better off taking as it would be difficult to accommodate to all factors? Maybe? [emoji28]

I’ve been reading so much and as I understand it the timing factor has been debunked, but everywhere still seems to believe it, and actually altering the pH of your cervix kinda spells disaster to me, as a scientist [emoji848]


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[atomic sagebrush]

Yes, diet, exercise, number of attempts, are the things that work. The old school stuff has been largely (or in the case of timing, entirely debunked).

I have the full scientific case against timing here: https://www.genderdreaming.com/forum/gender-swaying-general-discussion/7691-trouble-timing.html?highlight=trouble+timing

And the case against pH is here: https://www.genderdreaming.com/forum/gender-swaying-general-discussion/11684-ph-pickle.html?highlight=ph+pickle

Dr. Shettles died in 2000 and he was very elderly when he did. All the people who have promoted his theory (which was completely debunked using modern technology, and if he had lived he would be the first to agree since he was a serious scientist, just did not have the proper tools at his disposal) are charlatans selling an easy gender swaying method. Same with the pH people. There's no real science here, just a lot of science-ese and all of it based on Dr. Shettles' original error. People love the theories since it's seemingly easy, but as many of us on here got opposites with those ways, we are trying to find the things that actually DO work! :)

[lrobbo90]

So as well as diet what would you say about number of attempts and exercise I should be doing? I will certainly look into those, thank you :)


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[atomic sagebrush]

Weight training exercise, don't go nuts with cardio.

Three attempts if possible in the fertile window. Above all else be sure to have more than one! The old Shettles "one attempt on O Day" is pink friendly because of the number of attempts.

[lrobbo90]

Hi again Atomic, I’m due to ovulate tomorrow but not making much cm, do you recommend using a lubricant?

My LH hasn’t moved yet, so don’t think I’ve missed anything (hopefully!) xx


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[atomic sagebrush]

Yes you can use any sperm safe, conception friendly jelly like Preseed or Conceive Plus. But I do want to mention that being due to ovulate and ovulating are not always going to be the same thing - while you likely know that already, I have enough people who are shocked when it happens to them it's worth mentioning. :)

[lrobbo90]

Sorry Atomic, me again [emoji85] I have a couple of questions regarding swaying and ovulation in general if that’s okay?!

So, last time I posted I was under the impression I was due to ovulate (on the 6th I was ‘due’). I started getting lots of ewcm a couple of days ago (around the 8th), haven’t got as much today but I finally got a peak opk last night (it was literally double as dark as the control line!). Prior to this I’d tested at 4pm and it was “high” however I’m starting to think that’s is maybe my base line, as I have never had a low result? It was 3 hours later I got the peak at 7pm. I tested at around 9am this morning and the peak was even darker, then around 12pm it has gone back down. Does this mean I probably ovulated through the night? (I understand it can take a few hours for the LH to be filtered from blood to urine?).

Because I thought I was due to ovulate but couldn’t pinpoint when, we have had sex every other day since the 3rd - 3, 5, 7, 10, 11, 12(O day!). Will we still need to go again tomorrow?! Have we done it too much?

I also have a question about ovulation pains - I was so adamant I’d ovulate when I was due as I got dull aches again as I did last month, but I had them for days on end?! The aches trailed off yesterday but now my right side feels really sore! Is this normal? I have been on the pill for around 5 years, and breastfed for three before that, so I just can’t remember what’s normal and what isn’t!!

Thank you so much for replying to my messages so far, I really appreciate your help and guidance!


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[lrobbo90]

Also - my opks had gone back down to low, until now!! I have just got another peak!! Is that normal, and could that explain the soreness pain on my right side?

Sorry for all the random questions, I just figured you will probably have some answers hah!!!


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[atomic sagebrush]

Who/what is telling you you're "due" to ovulate a certain day? An app?

Are you using the "low/high/peak" from a fertility monitor or an app?

Please just use the OPK in terms of it being positive or not and nothing to do with low/high. If it's peak, the odds are good that it was a true peak. There's no "baselines" or anything like that, if the hormone reaches a certain concentration you'll get a positive.

The rate at which the test goes negative does NOT tell you if you ovulated or not. The surge and ovulation are not directly linked the way people think of them. You can have a positive OPK still after ovulation and a test that's gone negative prior to O. The tests merely register the hormone that signals your body to ovulate soon, and NOT the ovulation itself which your body sort of does on its own timeline. But after the signal is received it just takes however long for your body to clear the hormone. In most cases you will ovulate 24-36 hours, and less often as long as 48-72 hours after your first positive OPK regardless of when or IF the test has gone negative.

I don't like every other day sex (I can explain why if you like) But the important thing is that now you've gotten the peak, you need to be in with as many attempts as possible, at least three if you can. When is the last time you had an attempt??? Since you just got a peak you need to have attempts now now now!

Ovulation pains do not predict ovulation. You can get them before, during, and after O and they trick people constantly into having attempts at the wrong time and stopping attempts too soon. And there is no "normal" in O pains - you can have them in one pattern (or not at all) for a long time, and then the pattern changes, and it's all normal. So it really doesn't matter what happened in the past as it would probably be different now anyway.

[atomic sagebrush]

Also - my opks had gone back down to low, until now!! I have just got another peak!! Is that normal, and could that explain the soreness pain on my right side?

Sorry for all the random questions, I just figured you will probably have some answers hah!!!


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Again, is this coming from an app?

All OPK are doing is measuring HORMONE. They're not measuring ovulation. So what can happen is that your body surges, and then for some reason decides "hmm maybe this isn't a good time for an egg after all" and doesn't ovulate. Then in a couple days or a week or even two or three weeks, it surges again and ovulates then (and this process can happen repeatedly.) So having a peak and then it goes away and then another peak comes is very common and not a big deal really - you just need to attempt with your peaks and you'll always be covered even if it's a faker. And be prepared later on to have more attempts if hte egg takes its sweet time in showing!

[lrobbo90]

I got my peak on Sunday night - we did it Sunday, yesterday and are planning to again tonight. How come you don’t like every other day?

I totally know what you mean about the tests, in terms of it measuring hormone not ovulation itself, however I’m confused that I’ve never had a negative result, it’s always ‘high’ throughout my cycle?!


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[atomic sagebrush]

Are you using the apps to measure the "high"? Or is this a reading on an actual fertility monitor?

Because the fertile window is much shorter than people realize and every other day can easily end up being just one viable attempt, with most of the sex happening at times where you can't get pregnant from it. So something that seems like it should help you conceive is actually hurting your chances.

EOD ends up being either:

O-5, O-3, O-1, O+1 (O-5 and O+1 are completely non-viable, and we have had dreadful results with people having sex on O-3, it's a pretty slim chance. This leaves you with one good shot on O-1 - one attempt)

OR

O-6, O-4, O-2, O Day (O-6 is non-viable, O-4 is all but non-viable with one in 1000 chances, and O Day attempts are often too late as the sperm needs hours to capacitate and make it to the egg. It leaves you with one viable attempt on O-2).

Best to aim at O-2 and O-1 as these are by far and away the best chances of conception, and you can't hit that with EOD.

[lrobbo90]

Okay so, if I did actually ovulate Monday - the day after my peak - that would mean we’ve done 0-2, 0-1, 0 and 0+1. Is it worth going again tomorrow incase ovulation is late?


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[atomic sagebrush]

YES it's always worth going later just in case! There is no harm in a "too late" attempt for blue and plenty of benefit if O is delayed!

[lrobbo90]

Champion [emoji846] we did it, think my husband is glad for a break (for now at least [emoji28]!)


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[atomic sagebrush]

Excellent!

[lrobbo90]

Is there anywhere we can post for general discussion in the 2ww? I’ve looked but seems the one I found hasn’t been posted on for a long time! I feel bad for directing you back to this post again hah [emoji85]

With me just coming off the pill beginning of June I’m not sure how much cm is normal, or what kind and at the moment I have heavy creamy/sticky cm - I know we can’t predict anything from cm after ovulation but is lots of it normal after ovulation?

I thought progesterone dries it up, and is also responsible for making your boobs/nipples sore? I have sore nipples (like the let down feeling) but not sure if that’s normal for me yet, but there is so much cm! Every time I nip for a wee there is more!


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[atomic sagebrush]

No not at all that's what I'm here for! I love answering questions and helping you guys however I can. We do have a blue sway chat thread going here: https://www.genderdreaming.com/forum/trying-to-conceive-a-boy/82074-blue-sways-chatty-thread-2021-a.html?highlight=boy+chat and if you want to start a 2WW thread, please do! Let me know and I'll sticky it for you so it stays at the top of the page where people can see it.

The thing with CM is that the normal is there is no normal. Sticky/creamy CM can mean you have ovulated and then it will continue drying up over time and will be gone-ish in a few days. But it can also mean that your body started to ovulate and then sort of "changed its mind", so your egg white CM returned to sticky creamy for a few days, then when things are more favorable your CM will change back to fertile again. The body likes to keep us guessing! The amount you're describing has me nervous that it's the latter possibility and you haven't Oed yet so be aware that's a definite possibility.

Progesterone does dry up CM but it often takes DAYS for the process to be complete. Some sites make it sound like this is an instant thing, that it's like flipping a switch and very clear cut, but it isn't. Some of us, in some months, have fertile CM for a day or two after O (this happened to me in the month I conceived my daughter) because estrogen takes time to fall and progesterone takes time to rise, and then other times we are seeing EWCM dry up the day before O! It's just not as clear cut as we would like it to be.

Sore nips can happen in the 2WW but many people actually notice it at or just before ovulation. Again, it's really one of those things that varies wildly, not only between people, but in people over the course of time and even month by month.

[lrobbo90]

Me again… I still haven’t come on and have lots of cm. it almost has a yellow tinge in the pant liner [emoji85] I cramped intermittently from 10-13dpo and am now two days late, haven’t tested yet as my tests are in the post.

I feel terrible - nauseous and absolutely shattered, but think it’s more to do with the MS than pregnancy [emoji17]

Y’know when you just want to hurry up and come on, I almost feel like the bad feelings build up and then when I come on I feel better hah!


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[atomic sagebrush]

Do you think you've ovulated just recently? That IS possible.

Yes I HATE that feeling when you're just waiting and waiting for it to arrive!!

I'm so sorry you're not feeling well - I hope you're on the mend soon!

[lrobbo90]

Hi again :) Just done an opk and got a peak result, this time around I’ve had no pains or anything so I’m glad I’ve done the stick or I wouldn’t have had a clue!! I’m hoping this means I’m closer to being back to normal after stopping the pill!

I have been eating lots of protein, carbs etc this time around - Steak, nuts, peanut butter, lots of rice/pasta (I always eat plenty of carbs but think I’m getting better ones this time!) and also back to weight lifting.

I have managed to put on a whopping… 1kg [emoji23] doesn’t sound a lot but I find it so difficult to put weight on, my BMI has gone from 18 to 19.3 so I’m happy with that :)

So my question is (sorry I do get sidetracked hah!) even with my opk being positive I don’t have ewcm, it’s still sticky/creamy. There is quite a bit but I don’t think it’s the right stuff is it? Should I use a lube do you think? Like, there is lots of CM but it’s not egg white, and I don’t know if that could be a factor in stopping the sperms getting where they need to be?


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[atomic sagebrush]

No not at all, I love having the backstory!

If you're ovulating, and having a sensation of wetness, the odds are very good you are having EWCM just up inside where you cannot see it and the semen will act as a "life raft" till the sperm gets where it needs to be. Use a sperm safe, conception friendly jelly if you feel you need to, but I suspect everything is just fine up inside.

[lrobbo90]

Well I feel wet down there, just not a lot coming out hah. I had a low opk after my peak yesterday, but I had another peak today which is very dark - a lot darker than yesterday’s! And now I have the pains too, so I can only assume this peak is “the real deal” hah!

Just gotta keep on trying hah :)


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[atomic sagebrush]

Yes! Keep up the good work!

[lrobbo90]

Well, I finally got my bfp! [emoji3059] Now just the wait to see which we will get hah!

In all honesty, we will be happy whichever we are given [emoji7] currently only 12dpo but have a very strong line!

Fingers crossed for a sticky little bean [emoji3590]


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[lrobbo90]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210919/d4a9286e45490d262cb69ab3ffbbf404.jpg

This was at 10dpo, can stop panicking after Tuesday when I am due on hah [emoji85]


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[atomic sagebrush]

Oh that's great!! Gorgeous! Hugest congrats and keep me posted how you're getting along - happy to answer any questions you have, even just general pregnancy ones. FXFXFX!

[lrobbo90]

Aaaah thank you so much!! I don’t really feel anything yet other than a few twinges hah, but we’re so excited [emoji846]

Booked in for a viability scan on 6th October and hopefully they will date us too so we know when we’re due - exciting times ahead!

Thank you, and thank you being there to answer any questions too [emoji3059] xx


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[lrobbo90]

Hi atomic, bad news I’m afraid [emoji17] we lost our baby on Sunday night, no signs or warnings I just bled a lot and the baby came with it (which was traumatising in itself, I’ll never forget it’s little hand [emoji22]).

No sickness, pain, nothing. I was 11 weeks and just didn’t expect it, especially after the viability scan which was perfect. I had a large cyst on my left ovary but don’t think that would have affected anything?

We are going to keep trying, and wondered what prenatal vitamins you’d recommend that are available in the uk?

I know it will take time for us be able to try but I want to give my body as much prep as possible.

I am starting to doubt that once a heartbeat has been seen the risk of miscarriage drops dramatically? I was told it drops to 1.4% but I just can’t believe that! Xx


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[atomic sagebrush]

Oh gosh I'm so terribly sorry to hear this, how heartbreaking. :heart:

Is there any way you'd be able to get in to see a doctor? I think you should have your thyroid checked, ask about incompetent cervix (tho this usually is an issue later on, the way you describe the loss makes me think you should discuss it with someone), and perhaps a workup for any clotting disorders to be sure this doesn't happen again.

While late term losses are much less likely, you're right in questioning that statistic. There are different studies that have given a variety of results (because they do them in different sample groups, most likely), but the commonly agreed upon figure is that 80% of pregnancy losses happen before the 13th week. The March of Dimes also reports that only about 5% of pregnancies end after that point (so something about this number doesn't quite make sense either, unless 15% of pregnancies are ending IN the 13th week??? - but this is what is quoted by reputable sources.)

Miscarriage statistics. They're terrible and totally unreliable and doctors really don't seem too troubled by it as long as it gets patients out of their offices faster. :/

In either case this is more than 1.5 after hearing the heartbeat. I suspect that what is happening with that stat, which is also widely quoted, is that they're misreporting on how many miscarriages end at that point, and not the number of pregnancies overall that end in miscarriage, if that makes sense.

The good news is that having a miscarriage doesn't mean you're going to have another one. But I do really think it's good to get in to have that thyroid checked as that's one of the predominant causes we've seen of later losses. It's also a fairly easy test to request as most docs will happily order the test. The other potential causes of late first tri losses are less easy to get tested for, unfortunately, but certainly worth a try.

I would have you take mostly folate (up to 1500 mcg total plus the amount in your vitamin) instead of folic acid, and you can take Centrum in the UK (this does not have folate, but it has such good levels of everything else that it's worth taking and then add the folate onto that.)

[lrobbo90]

I know the hospital did a full run on my bloods, and everything was perfect. Unsure if that included any thyroid stuff though, I will make an app to try and get them checked - in the uk they normally don’t follow any requests hah.

A few years back I had an abnormal smear (CIN3) and had to have LLETZ treatment, but I’ve since had a smear which came back fine, no scarring, but I do have an entropic cervix now, which they said wouldn’t be an issue.

When I say no pain, I mean it wasn’t painful but I did have cramps, I had the ‘worst’ ones when I felt the fluid leak in my pants, and the baby came within minutes after. I thought it was meant to be agony. My labour with my daughter was quite quick, it took about 20 minutes to get to the point of pushing (which was then 3.5 hours).

I have ordered the centrum vits, thank you!

I just wish we could get an answer! I was meant to be 11 weeks but think it must have been a week or so before, the little eye was covered in skin and the fingers were still webbed. I know that sounds so awful, I’ll never forget it.


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[lrobbo90]

Aaagh the vits I’ve ordered are just ones for women, we can’t get the pregnancy ones in the UK anymore.

Is there another you would recommend? X


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[atomic sagebrush]

Yes, if there's any way, thyroid issues are one of the biggest causes of later losses so either to see if you were tested or else get the levels checked would be helpful.

Yes usually that's not an issue re the cervix so I'd not suspect an incompetent cervix per se (those losses usually happen later on in pregnancy) but the way you describe it happening does sound somewhat like that could be. Worth checking out, though I know in the UK it's a bit harder to have them check things (only if THEY think it's necessary)

It may be from what you describe, that the baby had passed the week before and that is why it had stopped developing. In that case it's even less likely that it was incompetent cervix. EVeryone responds differently to a loss, some are easy and painless, others are just like being in labor. No one knows why this is, but likely has to do with how much of the process completes on its own.

I'm so sorry you had to go through that, especially so unexpectedly without having time to get your head around it. :heart: :heart: :heart:

The Centrum for Women is the one you want. They are comparable to any prenatal vitamin and are ok to even take in pregnancy (as long as you're not taking a bunch of other vitamins at the same time).

[lrobbo90]

Thanks atomic. Would these ones be okay?https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20211111/260c010fa731d57cddad05d977933c04.jpg
I used to work in a coagulation lab and was always having my blood taken as I always gave text book results, my intrinsic and extrinsic factor levels and generic PT, APTT and thrombin levels were always perfect. I do wonder if these could have changed when starting my MS treatment!

Bleeding has stopped so back to square one just waiting for a negative test, I feel so callous! X


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[atomic sagebrush]

Yes, levels can change over time and having MS could absolutely lead to changes in your levels (entirely aside from the treatment!)

Those supps are fine, though I do generally recommend going with a smaller dose more often for better absorption - so 400/500 taken more often, like morning and night instead of just once if that makes sense.

Aww, there's nothing callous about it, your feelings are perfectly valid and it's absolutely normal to want to move on to a healthy pregnancy. In fact that's a very common response to a loss. :heart: Hang in there - thinking of you!

[lrobbo90]

Will try a lower amount and take it more through the day!

I just wanted to share the UK centrum for women vits:

The Vitamin A seems high, is that okay?

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20211116/78be63eaa7276ed3bfca73266fc32cdd.jpg


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[lrobbo90]

I also wanted to ask about cod liver oil liquid, is this something that is worth taking? :

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20211116/be350747c437b15cd0004af2b5adfd6f.jpg


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[atomic sagebrush]

The cutoff dose for Vitamin A in pregnancy is higher than that. The recommended intake overall during pregnancy is 770 ug so the Centrum is below that so as long as you're not taking a bunch of other supplements (see my warning about that above) or eating a lot of foods that are fortified with Vit. A - which it's quite unusual to see anyone fortifying foods with Vitamin A - it is fine to take. The maximum amount where harm is caused is all the way up at 3000 ug a day. Do not eat liver or liver sausage (you shouldn't eat this in pregnancy anyway, and few do) because it has high amounts of preformed Vitamin A, and keep salmon and other fish to 2 servings a week (which is my guideline anyway) and you are fine with that. I took that exact product during my last three pregnancies.

I don't think you should be taking cod liver oil. Firstly, it HAS Vitamin A in it (so this would be an additional Vit. A supplement which I don't recommend) and if you're already on fish oil or DHA, taking cod liver oil would be too much, and could end up causing you to bleed too easily. My preference is always fish oil/DHA, never cod liver oil for anyone when TTC.

[lrobbo90]

Wow, it has been such a long time since I posted here!! And still not pregnant unfortunately hah!

We're not gender swaying as such, we're just wanting a baby now 💕!

My husband's SA is perfect, all of my ovulation/thyroid/blood clotting tests are fine, no blocked tubes, cervix/ovaries/womb are structured well and working as they should!

My blood however is rubbish, I have antiDNA antibodies apparently, but the doctor won't give me the aspirin/heparin (is it Lovenox?) Whilst TTC, he says we get it when we fall.

Does anyone have info on anti DNA antibodies? I think it's difficult to find stuff online for personal experiences xx

[treens]

Im so sorry it is taking a long time for you. I am unsure on your question but I just wanted to send you healthy baby dust your way! Best of luck to you :))

[atomic sagebrush]

I have a little information but not a lot - most of the clients I've had in this situation, it was more guesswork if they had antibodies going on. They do have other medications that both you and your partner could take, and some people do IUI or IVF to bypass the entire vaginal environment. If these antibodies are blood clotting in nature, that won't help entirely, but it might help somewhat if there are anti-sperm antibodies.

It is possible to take aspirin on your own if you think that would help.

[lrobbo90]

Well after two years trying after our loss we have finally passed the 12w mark with our current pregnancy 🥹[emoji3590]

I do have a strange feeling we're having a girl, but will be happy if they're just here and healthy [emoji3059]

Thought I'd just update on this as we are hopefully having a happy ending here! [emoji3590]https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20231020/3e818ac06929e126667d29de8dbef612.jpg

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[treens]

Congratulations! That is wonderful news!!!!!
Wishing you the best for a healthy baby boy :))

Join us on the pregnancy chat thread we started I am currently 16 weeks.

How have you been feeling?

[lrobbo90]

Thank you [emoji3059]!

I will have a look for the thread, thank you!

I feel fine, had slight nausea weeks 5-7 (then had a huge panic when I felt normal again hah) but all looks good [emoji3590]!

How's your pregnancy going, do you know what you're having? [emoji846]

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[treens]

I am doing well. I was tired a lot but I feel better now. Few headaches but that's about it! :)

Will you try to find out with NIPT or at the 20 week scan?

[lrobbo90]

Pregnancy headaches are awful [emoji31]! Glad you're feeling a bit better now [emoji846]

We're getting an early gender scan at 16 weeks (more so my daughter can come, NHS do not allow children in when being scanned) xx

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