Blue Sway Folic Acid QQ - Please help!

[ruby_blue]

Hi, I have posted this elsewhere but not sure it was on the right thread (I'm a newbie in case you can't tell :) ) so posting here just in case this is the right place....

I recently did a blue sway and took 2000mg Folate and 700ug folic acid (300ug in Centrum + 400ug folic acid tablet) while TTC. I did larger amounts of both as this was following on from two recurrent miscarriages.

I am now, I believe, 5w pregnant and waiting for a scan to confirm it's viable (also debating whether or not to take progesterone to prevent another miscarruage... but that's another story, I'll try to keep things simple!).

I really need to know if I should keep these Folate and folic acid levels up until the 12 week mark? (which, God willing, I will reach!)? Particularly that large amount of folic acid and I've read some conflicting things about safety online, so should I wean down now?

Many many thanks!

Ruby

[atomic sagebrush]

Yes, I have your post open on my browser and I had read this question but it was a longer post and I didn't get through it yet.

Keep the higher intake of folate/FA till the end of the first trimester and then start weaning off. The neural tube is closed at that point and you can wean off.

The possible risks of too much folic acid firstly is NOT from 700 ug (and your body is ok with folate, so that doesn't count). It is only much higher amounts taken later on in pregnancy and even then, any potential risk is very sketchy. If you wean off at the end of the first tri that is fine and what many of us (who were prescribed much higher doses) took.

What I would do is at maybe 10ish weeks start dialing it back slightly and plan to be down to the amount in the prenatal by the end of the 13th week.

[ruby_blue]

Thanks so much for your reply! So appreciated. I bought Methylfolate 1000mch capsules for Folate and have been taking two a day. I also bought 400ug Folate tablets which I plan on taking when I start to wean down from the 2000 level.

So is the idea to just get down to the amount in my prenatal? I followed your advice to others and got Centrum Women which has 300ug folic acid. Is the idea that this is what I should be taking at end of first trimester, ie no Folate at all, just folic acid?

All being well, I was then thinking of switching to Pregnacare tablets in later pregnancy (mainly as I stocked up on them before finding this excellent site!) which contain 400ug folic acid.

Again, thank you so much for your help on this. I’ve felt so lost and I can’t tell you what it means to have some direct answers! Xx

[atomic sagebrush]

I would wean over to the Pregnacare gradually over about three weeks - alternate the vitamins, then take the Pregnacare every 2 days, Centrum 1 day, then 3/1, 4/1 and once you're down to one per week, then you can drop the Centrum totally.

Unless you have a MTHFR mutation and cannot process folic acid you don't technically need the folate pills in addition to the folic acid. If you DO have the MTHFR mutation you shouldn't be using folic acid at all and we'll need to find some other supplement with folate in it.

[ruby_blue]

Thank you :) no I don't have this mutation - as far as I know! - so I should be fine with folic acid alone.

So at the 10th week, does it sound ok to go to:

10th week: 1800 Folate + 700 FA, then 1400 Folate + 700 FA
11th week: 1000 Folate + 700 FA, then 800 Folate + 300 FA [with my 400 FA pills every other day for a few days]
12th week: 400 Folate + 300 FA, then Folate every other day and increase spacing to stop Folate completely after another week?

If that looks ok - and please feel free to amend if it doesn't, I'm just making it up as I go! - then would it be ok to take some of those Folate doses in my 1000mcg tablets, or would it be better to spread them out throughout the day in 400mcg doses?

All being well, I'd then start the gradual move from Centrum to Pregnacare as you described.

Thanks so much Atomic :) x

[atomic sagebrush]

Yes that's just fine, and if it goes a little faster or slower that's fine.

Spreading out through the day is always best with folate as it gives your body a steadier supply.

[ruby_blue]

Thanks Atomic 😊👍 x

[ruby_blue]

Hi Atomic, sorry - me again. I've just been thinking, as this is a twin pregnancy, could the high doses of folate and folic acid have possibly contributed to that?!
Also, I read over one of your replies again and you say I dont need the folate in addition to the folic acid. So could I start weaning off the 2,000mcg Folate straight away, while I keep going with the daily 700mg Folic Acid?

I feel very stupid, like I must have misread something on this site :( I thought I should take both Folate and Folic Acid together, but now I see maybe that wasn't the case and I've just been overdosing it for a long time...? xx

[atomic sagebrush]

No, it doesn't cause twinning. It may help both twins in a pregnancy to survive (a surprising number of twin pregnancies start and then one twin does not survive). But it's been proven not to cause twinning in a really well done study in hundreds of thousands of women.

You've been taking the higher amount. Please continue taking the amount you are taking till the end of the first trimester then gradually wean off. This is not the time to disrupt the levels of folic/folate in your system. Wait till the end of the first tri when the neural tubes are closed.

No, it's either folate or folic acid, not both. But there isn't anything wrong with taking both, just that it's not necessary. Some people do end up taking both becuase they have some FA in their prenatal and take folate separately.

You aren't overdosing, you're taking much less than some of us (myself included) are prescribed. I was given 4000 in my 4th and 5th pregnancies and others are given 5000. As long as you wean off at the end of the first tri that's what you need to do.

[ruby_blue]

Thanks for the reply. I’ve been having a very tough time in this pregnancy - nausea & vomiting off the scale, haven’t left the house in nearly 2 weeks - then I read an old study drawing a link & though oh no I shouldn’t have taken so much! 😬

Also finding it impossible to space throughout the day as the sickness is just overwhelming in the morning (I just vomit water & bile - tmi sorry). I’m trying to eat a bit more now it’s late afternoon…

I guess I’m just in such a panic about everything. I never knew nausea in pregnancy could be so debilitating. I can’t look after my daughter or do anything. Every day seems just as bad or even worse. Sorry, what a moaning Minnie I am! I should count my blessings I know, I’m just kind of terrified.. as is my partner. We never imagined the possibility of twins in a million years. I’m also really shocked it’s happened to me as I don’t seem to fit any of the usual criteria. I’m tiny - 5’1 and very petite. No twins in my family.

I guess I’ll see what happens though as I have heard stories about how it’s more likely something will go wrong if there are two. Not that I’m hoping it will - I’d feel wretched - but maybe slightly partially relieved, I don’t know. What a ramble, I’m sorry! Xx

[atomic sagebrush]

Just do your best and if you don't get there it's ok.

Eat ANYTHING you can. Even if it's something like M and M's, whatever sounds good and that you think you can keep down. And keep sour candy on hand. Pop one in your mouth first thing before you even get up, it works quite well. I found water just aggravated the sickness. All the things they say to eat - water, toast, crackers - made me throw up. Only things that were sour/sweet/cold truly helped. Fruit, candy, soda, juice, even things like ice cream and sorbet I was able to keep down. With my 4th pregnancy I went through a phase where I ate a lot of Jelly Beans, entire meals of jelly beans, LOL. But you just need to keep something going through you all the time to keep your body with enough carbs to function and enough liquid to keep from getting dehydrated.

[ruby_blue]

Oh my God I’ve found that exactly. Crackers and water are the main culprits! I keep plain crackers by my bed like they say and every morning without fail, eat a few bites of one, have a sip of water… then puke my guts up for a couple of hours 😩😂

I’ll definitely try sour candy thank you. I’ve found white bread & ham helps a bit. But only in the afternoons, mornings are the worst.

I guess it’s hard to think straight like this. I do keep feeling tremendously guilty that my girl now potentially has two siblings coming along instead of just one.. (plus my partner already has a 7 year old son). But maybe everyone feels guilty. What a rollercoaster! Thanks for writing back to me, it means a lot. I haven’t told many friends about this as I don’t think most people really know what to say / may feel uncomfortable xx

[atomic sagebrush]

EXACTLY! I swear it's almost as if they tell us the absolute WORST things for soothing the nausea!

It's true literally everyone feels guilty when they're pregnant again, let alone with twins. And you're doing the hardest thing right now you'll probably EVER do physically speaking. Hang in there, we are here if you need us!

[ruby_blue]

Heya, just wanted to let you know that there have been some changes… and I sent you a PM, hope that’s ok xxx

[ruby_blue]

Hi Atomic,

Me again :) I hope you’re well and thanks for your support before. I’ve got some questions please, ahead of starting a blue sway in September before we try in December. I’ve been trying to improve my diet ahead of it as I am naturally not the healthiest eater, but after a series of losses I’m very determined to have a healthy pregnancy which I can sustain. My partner is 9 years older than me, at 43, so he may need some pointers too. I’ll lay out my main questions on here – many thanks in advance.

SUPPLEMENTS – how does this sound?

Daily, for me:

-- Vitamin D 1000IU
-- CoQ10 100mg
-- Omega 3 capsules – would you recommend 500mg once a day / any particular brand? Or is it just as effective to take one 1000mg tablet every other day?
(thinking of buying: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Omega-Providing-Capsules-guarantee-Manufactured/dp/B00CXMLSMW/ref=sr_1_4?crid=1S5POFQUBG0WF&dchild=1&keywords=omega+3+500mg+capsules&qid=1629230744&s=drugstore&sprefix=omega+3+500%2Cdrugstore%2C282&sr=1-4).
-- Probiotic
(thinking of buying: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Bio-Cultures-Lactobacillus-Acidophilus-Bifidobacterium-Nutrition/dp/B00VEILW04/ref=sr_1_7?dchild=1&keywords=probiotic&qid=1629229820&sr=8-7)
-- Centrum women (which contains 300ug of folic acid)
-- Folate 1000mcg tablets (should I take one or two a day?) / Folate 400ug tablets (ditto)
-- Folic acid 400ug tablets (one or two a day?)

[My main confusion is what mix of folate and folic acid to take – or whether to take a mix at all. I’m happy to buy pills with different levels of Folate in too, I just bought two sets: 1000mcg each and 400ug each. I was planning to wean to the 400ug ones once I take the dose down, God willing I get pregnant]

- Plus Royal Jelly 500mg?
- Plus Robitusson around O?
- Plus iron tablets (ferrous fumerate) once a day? I was once anaemic but I'm thinking eating more red meat may dispel this.

DH tablets daily:

-- Centrum 50+ for men
-- Omega 3 – the same dose as me
-- CoQ10 100mg
-- Vitamin D 1000IU
-- Probiotic – same as me
-- Carnitine 1000mg
-- Folic acid 400mg

Is there anything I should add to either list?

EATING
How many times per week should I eat:
1) Salmon? (currently eat 3 portions per week)
2) Sea bass? (currently eat 2 portions, or 4 fillets, per week)
3) Steak? (currently eat 2 portions per week)

-- Shall I use olive oil or butter to cook?
-- What’s the most important food group to focus on – protein and vegetables? Is there much evidence that ‘alkaline foods’ like potatoes and bananas help?
-- I’m currently hooked on thin chicken slides with iceberg lettuce and mozzarella cheese… should this be dropped?!
-- Do you recommend I drink Raspberry Leaf Tea for a month or two before trying? I think my womb lining is quite thin, maybe because of all the losses. It's been commented on in scans.
-- Should I increase water intake?

EXERCISE
I currently do a mix of running/walking uphill on treadmill, yoga/pilates, HIIT classes, swimming, cycling. I do ‘body conditioning’ too with light weights – I’m naturally petite and small.
-- What should I focus on? (e.g. weights?). What should be dropped? (e.g. running?)
-- DH is a keen cyclist, will this be an issue? He’s also a big vaper although I am working on getting him to kick the habit :)

Thank you for reading this far and for all your help to date. I want this to work so badly. And the sway is less important to me than a healthy pregnancy and baby. But like we said before, boy sway = trying to be healthier anyway. Given my four losses this year, I am willing to do anything on earth to make this work. Thank you so much xx

[ruby_blue]

Hi Atomic,

Me again :) I hope you’re well and thanks for your support before. I’ve got some questions please, ahead of starting a blue sway in September before we try in December. I’ve been trying to improve my diet ahead of it as I am naturally not the healthiest eater, but after a series of losses I’m very determined to have a healthy pregnancy which I can sustain. My partner is 9 years older than me, at 43, so he may need some pointers too. I’ll lay out my main questions on here – many thanks in advance.

SUPPLEMENTS – how does this sound?

Daily, for me:

-- Vitamin D 1000IU
-- CoQ10 100mg
-- Omega 3 capsules – would you recommend 500mg once a day / any particular brand? Or is it just as effective to take one 1000mg tablet every other day?
(thinking of buying: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Omega-Providing-Capsules-guarantee-Manufactured/dp/B00CXMLSMW/ref=sr_1_4?crid=1S5POFQUBG0WF&dchild=1&keywords=omega+3+500mg+capsules&qid=1629230744&s=drugstore&sprefix=omega+3+500%2Cdrugstore%2C282&sr=1-4).
-- Probiotic
(thinking of buying: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Bio-Cultures-Lactobacillus-Acidophilus-Bifidobacterium-Nutrition/dp/B00VEILW04/ref=sr_1_7?dchild=1&keywords=probiotic&qid=1629229820&sr=8-7)
-- Centrum women (which contains 300ug of folic acid)
-- Folate 1000mcg tablets (should I take one or two a day?) / Folate 400ug tablets (ditto)
-- Folic acid 400ug tablets (one or two a day?)

[My main confusion is what mix of folate and folic acid to take – or whether to take a mix at all. I’m happy to buy pills with different levels of Folate in too, I just bought two sets: 1000mcg each and 400ug each. I was planning to wean to the 400ug ones once I take the dose down, God willing I get pregnant]

- Plus Royal Jelly 500mg?
- Plus Robitusson around O?
- Plus iron tablets (ferrous fumerate) once a day? I was once anaemic but I'm thinking eating more red meat may dispel this.

DH tablets daily:

-- Centrum 50+ for men
-- Omega 3 – the same dose as me
-- CoQ10 100mg
-- Vitamin D 1000IU
-- Probiotic – same as me
-- Carnitine 1000mg
-- Folic acid 400mg

Is there anything I should add to either list?

EATING
How many times per week should I eat:
1) Salmon? (currently eat 3 portions per week)
2) Sea bass? (currently eat 2 portions, or 4 fillets, per week)
3) Steak? (currently eat 2 portions per week)

-- Shall I use olive oil or butter to cook?
-- What’s the most important food group to focus on – protein and vegetables? Is there much evidence that ‘alkaline foods’ like potatoes and bananas help?
-- I’m currently hooked on thin chicken slides with iceberg lettuce and mozzarella cheese… should this be dropped?!
-- Do you recommend I drink Raspberry Leaf Tea for a month or two before trying? I think my womb lining is quite thin, maybe because of all the losses. It's been commented on in scans.
-- Should I increase water intake?

EXERCISE
I currently do a mix of running/walking uphill on treadmill, yoga/pilates, HIIT classes, swimming, cycling. I do ‘body conditioning’ too with light weights – I’m naturally petite and small.
-- What should I focus on? (e.g. weights?). What should be dropped? (e.g. running?)
-- DH is a keen cyclist, will this be an issue? He’s also a big vaper although I am working on getting him to kick the habit :)

Thank you for reading this far and for all your help to date. I want this to work so badly. And the sway is less important to me than a healthy pregnancy and baby. But like we said before, boy sway = trying to be healthier anyway. Given my four losses this year, I am willing to do anything on earth to make this work. Thank you so much xx

[atomic sagebrush]

Ok these didn't get approved just because something about the format of them is tricking the spam folder into thinking it's spam. But I have approved them now. I will get back to answer them as soon as I can!

[ruby_blue]

Thank you so much :) it was probably me messing around with the formatting (like bold) to try to make my message a bit clearer! Thank you & look forward to hearing from you whenever you have time, no rush x

[atomic sagebrush]

The Centrum for Women should already HAVE the 1000 IU Vit D. It's ok to add in more if you think you're low in it but not necessary if you are taking the Centrum for Women.

I prefer 500 daily to 1000 every other day.

I would actually have you take one 1000, and 2 400 mcg folate. That combined with the Centrum will be about 2000 mcg daily. Space these out over the day for best absorption.

I do not recommend royal jelly. It has NOTHING in it other than B Vitamins, and small amounts of protein and fat that you are getting more than enough of elsewhere. The high dose of B Vitamins has been highly disruptive to people's menstrual cycles, delaying or even stopping ovulation for many people. And it can prime your body for future allergies to bee stings, and some people have even developed allergies to the royal jelly itself. People have even died from taking royal jelly and then encountering more royal jelly later on (in foods/drinks) and then having an allergic reaction.

Are you anemic now? what is the dose on the iron?

For hubby, same thing applies with the Centrum - it SHOULD have enough Vit D (tho I am less sure about the Men's over 50 Centrum as they sometimes change the formula on that one!) But if he feels he needs more, 2000 IU is ok and considered in reasonable safe parameters.

I would add in 500 mg arginine alongside the carnitine unless he has some type of herpesvirus (cold sores or genital herpes) because arginine can cause those to flare

Salmon - 2x a week
Sea Bass - drop this entirely till after you are no longer pregnant
Steak - as much as you want

Both olive oil AND butter are great. I'd prob focus most of my energy on butter to be sure you're getting enough Omega 3 vs. Omega 6 but they're both great.

Protein and carbs at every meal and snack, good amounts of healthy and saturated animal fat. Choose more nutrient dense options. Beyond that there is no "best food group"

No, there's no benefit to "alkalinizing" foods vs. "acid" foods, that's unscientific nonsense that makes no biological sense. Everything you eat immediately drops into your stomach acid and is low in pH, then goes into your intestines where it's made high in pH. and your blood pH does not change regardless of what you eat unless you are on your deathbed.

And the potassium foods like potatoes and bananas don't work either. Plus, you'll be getting gobs of potassium on HE Diet anyway, with more nutrient dense options than either potatoes or bananas, which tend to be fattening and honestly don't have that much potassium in them compared to things like tomato, berries, red meat, etc.

The chicken sliders are great! Enjoy! Protein and carbs and fat right there!

Personally if your lining is that thin I would suggest talking to your doc about ways to improve it. RRLT is ok, but it doesn't fix problems like medication does (particularly Viagra to improve blood flow) and we are honestly none too sure how it really even sways or if it's fully safe. When I drank RRLT in early pregnancy (this was before I knew any of this stuff) I had the most mindboggling uterine cramps, to such extent I dropped it even tho I had been told it was perfectly safe and beneficial. I don't like anyone who has had losses to be using anything that has caused such a dramatic result for me personally!!! So if you do decide to use it, let's stop it at ovulation every month.

Drink water to your level of thirst. There's no proven advantage in drinking gobs of water provided you are adequately hydrated anyway, and it may "wash away" nutrients your body needs to stay fully fertile. As long as you're doing guaifenesin and are drinking when you're thirsty that is all you need to do.

I think you should continue the exercise you're doing. I would cut back the intensity of the running, but keep up with it because it can help keep you from gaining much weight. Overgaining weight can actually undermine your sway because it can suppress fertility (if the gain is too much) and because people get upset they've gained weight and give up on swaying. So as long as you're doing exercise 45 min. and no longer, 4-5 days a week, that's great, pick and choose what you like.

If you see massive weight gain quickly, I will have you do 45 min. walking or other cardio 4 days a week, weights 5 days a week at a different time of day than your cardio, but we don't need to do that unless you really gain a lot fast.

Cycling and vaping both likely sway pink (cycling is more proven than vaping, but we do assume that since smoking sways pink, vaping does as well even tho it's not studied yet). I would have him cut back if he's willing, and if he's not, just focus on the other stuff you can do. It's not a dealbreaker, you can work around those things if need be.

[ruby_blue]

Thank you so much for your reply. It's always so nice to receive messages from you with this wealth of information :)

Re Vitamin D, I checked online and the Centrum Women tablets available here have 10ug Vit D, which is 400 IU. The Centrum Men 50+ have 15ug or 600 IU. So if both me and DH take two tablets a day, I'll be ingesting 1,400 IU Vit D and he'll get 1,600 IU - should he take that much or stick to the 600 IU a day?

Re the iron, I have ferrous fumerate 210mg tablets. I was taking one daily for a while but have since given up as I'm not sure if I'm still anaemic. I was prescribed them in my previous, only successful, pregnancy 2.5 years ago because I became very anaemic in that pregnancy. I was too exhausted to even walk down the street - but then I wasn't very healthy when I got pregnant: over-exercising, very underweight, restricted diet (perhaps unsurprisingly I had a girl!). So if you think there's no harm in taking them I could start, but I thought I would be getting lots of iron from steak anyway so not sure whether to bother.

Thanks for the arginine tip, I'll get that :)

Out of interest, why does sea bass work against the blue sway? Is it white fish in general which isn't good? And I assume you mean to drop that from Sept for a Dec sway.

One thing I completely forgot to ask about - but is clearly pretty crucial lol - is BD pattern. Both DH and I are exhausted a lot and can sometimes fall back on a once-a-week vibe. I've read that every other day is best for blue, as well as on day of peak ovulation, twice the next day, and the following day. My question is, should we aim to BD once every three days over the next couple of months and then go to once every other day in December? (if he can manage this!!)
And also, we've been using protection recently as my cycles are very long due to polycystic ovaries but also quite irregular. So it's hard to predict when I ovulate. And after the traumas of this year, neither one of us is ready to face something else going wrong just yet. The protection method I use is the diaphragm (very old school!). Could this affect the sway at all / should I try to not use it when I know I'm unlikely to fall pregnant?

Thank you so much once again :) xx

[atomic sagebrush]

Oh interesting, see that's why I hesitate to recommend specific brands because they vary so much around the world. 1400 and 1600 IU is very much in the range I am fine with you guys taking.

Let's do 2x a week with that dose of iron, and have it with something containing Vitamin C. I would actually like you to get in for a followup, as most cases of anemia are "silent" and have no symptoms with it. Usually if you have symptoms it's pretty severe, but we need to be treating you even if it's a milder form.

Sea bass is very high in mercury and ALL women who are trying to conceive should avoid it when TTC. Especially in your case since you've been eating a lot of it (in 10 years I have never seen anyone eating anything close to the level you are eating!) I want you to drop it IMMEDIATELY because we need to give your body time to get rid of the excess mercury it may have collected.

You don't need to do every other day for blue. Hubby should RELEASE, whether that is on his own or with you, with protection, every 2-4 days. So this can end up being 2x a week-ish if you go with the 4 day pattern. If occasionally this goes an extra day that's ok, but what we are trying to avoid is long abstains of 6-7 days or more regularly, and also periods of many days in a row.

The diaphragm is ok for now but in the months you plan to try you will need to use something else that does not involve spermicide. Spermicide residue may sway somewhat pink, and some people were even investigating it for use as a pink sway tactic, but it cut odds of conception too much. So we don't want that residue in your system in the months you plan to attempt.

[ruby_blue]

Wow how strange! I would have thought the brand would be the same everywhere too (I'm in London btw!). Just a few more little questions, hope you don't mind!

To clarify, I should take one iron tablet on two days of the week? I'll take it with juice :)

Right, sea bass will be dropped! Thank you for telling me that, I was actually pretty unaware and thought tuna was the only high-mercury culprit to avoid. Is there another kind of blue swaying fish I could have instead? No worries if not.

Thanks for clarifying the BD pattern. I think anything more may have destroyed him lol! I'll avoid spermacide in the month we start trying. Actually looking forward to not having to use the diaphragm then too, it's a bit of a faff...

I've been ordering some supplements online and am really excited to have a plan to work for, so thank you. Do you think Robitussen around O in the month we're trying is advisable? I'm not someone who gets lots of CM, so maybe it is... x

[atomic sagebrush]

Yes that's right. Iron is one thing the body can save up, so we can take extra even just a couple times a week and have benefits from it without going overboard. I would def consider possibly a blood test to see how you're doing as iron can, like I said above, be a silent deficiency. (I REALLY struggle with this personally and yet I've only had symptoms a few times in my life, yet my levels hover right at the cutoff between normal/anemic.)

I don't recommend ANY kind of fish when TTC more than twice a week. In addition to the potential for mercury (even in low mercury fish, there can still be some mercury, just less) there can be pesticide runoff and naturally occurring biological toxins in fish as well. Most reputable sources recommend no more than 2 times per week for eating fish when TTC.

Guaifenesin (the active ingredient in some types of Robitussin) does seem to improve CM for some people. I don't think there's any strong evidence proving it's blue friendly, but most blue swayers do use it with my blessing (because it certainly doesn't seem pink friendly either.) Do be sure you're getting just guaifenesin as the active ingredient because some things sold under the brand name "Robitussin" have other things in there that may be active pink swayers or are harmful.

[ruby_blue]

Ok will do, very helpful - thank you.

I've been reading up on the HE diet today. The forums here makes so much more sense than a lot of the stuff out there! I've established that the best thing to do is eat protein and carbs together at all meals - does that count for snacks too, or can, say, a piece of fruit and some nuts be a snack?

I've always struggled a bit with carbs because bread, pasta and white potatoes have never really been part of my diet; I'm not really a fan. (But willing to eat just about anything to make this work!). When you say carbs, are you talking broadly to include things like vegetables (broccoli, spinach, yams...my mind has literally just drawn a blank now!) or are complex carbs important too? I'm going to introduce brown rice to my diet and try to up the veggies. I will even try to eat kale (yuck!) xx

[atomic sagebrush]

I know, right?? Something that never made any sense to me at all is how Top Ramen and hot dogs could be good for conceiving a baby of ANY gender at all! :/

Yes, protein + carbs at every meal and snack within reason. Keep in the back of your mind, the goal we are trying to accomplish here is keeping blood sugar higher longer (or at the least preventing a full on blood sugar crash) so you can sometimes accomplish that without protein + carbs, as long as you're eating again pretty quick. Let's say you had a great big lunch, and truly aren't hungry till dinner. No worries, just roll with that. Another option would be to have a lighter lunch, but oh no, all there is to eat is a piece of fruit. That's ok, just eat dinner sooner rather than later, before your blood sugar can drop again after the fruit (or have another piece of fruit to keep blood sugar up longer)

A piece of fruit and some nuts (or cheese, or a hard boiled egg, or some yogurt) is ABSOLUTELY a snack. And one of the best ones! Nuts ALONE have protein + carbs in them, you don't even need the fruit. It can even be a meal depending on how many nuts you eat. When I conceived my 3rd son, for years I had 1/2 cup either almonds or walnuts plus tea for breakfast every single morning. I would often go all morning on that, sometimes I'd have some dates or an orange with the nuts, or some chocolate in the middle of the morning at work, particularly in the winter (I worked outside). And it worked really well, I rarely was hungry till lunchtime.

Complex carbs will keep your blood sugar up longer, though I do allow people to choose from the various options as long as they're having protein with them. :agree: No need to eat white bread, pasta, or potatoes, you can have whole grains, fruit, or higher carb veg instead (corn, beets, winter squash/marrows, yams, potatoes - anything that tastes sweet and starchy) The lower carb veg - broccoli, spinach - the things that don't taste sweet/starchy don't count for carbs though they're good in other ways. And even a small amount of sugar in say a salad dressing or some other sauce works. Feel free to have a spinach/broc salad, with a hardboiled egg or two on top, and then a sweet tasting salad dressing (1000 Island, honey mustard, Russian) and that would be protein + carbs.

[ruby_blue]

Ok thank you Atomic. I'm feeling a little worried as I still haven't started my period yet.. I'm guessing it will be even later than normal now, after all that's happened. I'm keen to get started but realise how difficult it's going to be with incredibly long cycles and ovulation windows which are very hard to pinpoint! I've bought lots of tests to help though, which I plan to start using in Dec... although at this rate, I may not even ovulate in that month :(

Thanks for the food examples, I don't have a very varied diet right now, I tend to stick to the same things (like sea bass, lol) so these are helpful :)

Are there certain drinks which can really help? I've read about V8 and grapefruit juice... I used to love herbal teas and green tea but only when they were artificially sweetened! Can't bear them without so am mainly sticking with fizzy water / lemon water for now.

Fingers crossed that things start moving soon and I can get started xx

[ruby_blue]

p.s. please ignore the first paragraph of my last post - things have got moving now on that front, which is some relief! It means that, looking ahead to my first month of trying, I won't ovulate until around 28-30th December. Is it still worth starting my sway on 1st September, or should I hold off on taking the supps (and getting DH to take his!) until late September, as that would still give me the full 12 weeks?

I've already shifted my diet towards the blue sway, e.g. fish 2x a week, full fat dairy, snacks etc. Just wondering when I should start properly in your view. Thank you :) xxx

[atomic sagebrush]

No, I want you to start your sway supps right away and start avoiding that sea bass as well. The HE Diet and supps can be done as far in advance as possible, you can take the supps indefinitely and they'll only help your overall health and fertility. Just take care with the diet not to gain weight with super rapidity, pace yourself in terms of cal intake and snacking too much, don't go nutty with carbs either (just enough carbs to satisfy the "protein + carbs" adage) till you're closer in.

People see big changes in cycles with swaying. Let's not look ahead too far and assume the days you'll ovulate all the way in December. That may very well change.

Personally I don't put ~much~ stock into any one thing being magically delicious, LOL, but V8 and grapefruit juice (indeed, all citrus juices) certainly are chock full of nutrients. I was drinking a lot of V8 and orange juice (and green tea) with my 3rd son. I didn't know about swaying with hiim, but I may as well have been swaying blue! What about black tea, can you stand that without artificial sweetener?

[ruby_blue]

Ok we're starting today! Not off to the best start as I just realised by Vit D tablets are a few months out of date - I'm guessing they're useless now?! I'll get new ones anyway...

I've definitely put on a little weight already but I'm ok with that. And yeah, I spend way too much time on these apps trying to figure out when things will happen! I'm also trying to plan a little trip away in Dec for when I may ovulate, so DH and I can relax a little (very hard for us to do here!). I do seem to have period around every 45 days, but maybe the sway will change that! Sod's law I book a trip for the dates just before / after!

I wasn't mad keen on the V8, but happy to drink it sometimes. Otherwise can I mix orange / grapefruit juice with fizzy water? I'm not a fan of tea or coffee to be honest, but if it would help my sway then I could introduce it? I would probably prefer it with milk, but I'll drink it however is most effective (e.g. I was making myself drink raspberry leaf tea every day a few months ago when I thought that would help, and it tastes like pond water!) Just let me know how much would be good.

Also I've set timers on my phone for the folate tablets... I'll be taking Centrum in the morning with all the other pills (around 8/8.30am) then folate 1000 at 12 noon, folate 400 at 3pm and another folate 400 at 7pm. Also iron mid-morning twice a week with orange juice. Does that sound like good spacing? xx

[ruby_blue]

p.s. something I forgot to ask - sorry! - does it matter if DH drinks milk replacers (i.e. unsweetened almond milk)? xx

[atomic sagebrush]

Oh those are still just fine. Over time they lose potency but that takes years.

The apps are really not so good. They are the cause of many unwanted pregnancies and many more people trying to get pregnant who can't because they're using these apps that are inaccurate and do not take into account that your cycle can change. They use past cycles to predict the future, and that may be ok if you stay regular but so many people don't, and even just if your cycle varies a few days it means you may not conceive in months you should be able to. Just so you're aware of that possibility, that's all.

Totally fine to ditch V8 then. It's definitely an acquired taste, I grew up drinking it so I like it, but it's one of those things I know that many people don't like! You can try mixing orange, grapefruit, pineapple, purple grape, or other healthy fruit juices with fizzy water (I would avoid things that are basically sugar water, like apple juice and white grape juice) Club soda may be better than straight seltzer (tho that's rather "old wives tale-ish"). BTW - juice, even if it's just a half-glass mixed with club soda, is carbs, so that can be a source for the carbs in your pro + carb idea.

I'd skip coffee as that may sway pink but black tea is good for blue. IF you hate it, no worries, but that is one thing I did with all four of my boys, I drank gobs of black tea, with milk it in, on all of them.

Ugh I agree RRLT is the worst! Bleurgh!

Yes great spacing!

We have seemed to see a lot of blue sway opposites with WOMEN drinking large amounts of milk replacers. I suspect it's because of the high amounts of vegetable oil with Omega 6 in it (too much Omega 6 in proportion to Omega 3, may lead to more female conceptions for reasons we do not understand). We don't know if this affects men as well. As long as he's keeping it to like 1-2 servings max per day it's likely fine, especially if he's getting a good intake of Omega 3 at the same time.

[ruby_blue]

Thanks for your reply. Always so nice to hear from you :)

I might do a month or so on the out-of-date vit D tablets (there are loads!) then just save them for after this sway is over, just in case! And yes, I know what you mean about the apps. Even looking ahead now, I could only 'predict' my ovulation dates if I ovulate and menstruate at exactly the same times as I did this cycle. And I rarely do, although I roughly follow a 45 day cycle with ovulation around day 30 (so odd I know). Because of the year I've had, I think it will take some time to get my hormones regulated anyway...

So is tea with (full fat) milk is as effective in blue sways as black? And would it be worth introducing now or waiting until the month before / month of we start trying (so either Nov or Dec?). I'm so unused to caffeine, I'll be bouncing off the walls! But if it would be best to introduce a daily mid-morning cup now, then I can do that. And I will introduce V8 nearer the time :) sometimes I kinda got into it, it just wasn't my fave!

I'm not sure how much omega 3 he gets through diet. We've started the daily 500mg tablets, but when I look online the main sources of omega 3 through food seem to be fish like mackeral and salmon... and I've cut back to just 2x salmon a week (and smoked salmon too, I assume that's ok?!).
DH hates fish though and doesn't eat nuts (like I do). He does like to make himself "salads" though, completely drenched in oil lol! I should start making some chilli con carnes perhaps xx

[atomic sagebrush]

:agree: makes sense with the Vitamin D!

Honestly that is not a particularly unusual cycle. I consider O days up to CD 21 TOTALLY normal and up to 35 completely within average, unremarkable parameters. Oing once every 6 weeks is actually quite common.

"Black" tea doesn't mean tea without milk. It just means regular old tea (another name for this is "orange pekoe" but people found that even more confusing, LOL). "Black" is a variety of tea like "green" is a variety. So you can absolutely have "black" tea with milk in it! You can use decaf black tea too to prevent that jittery feeling.

Yes just keep it to 2x a week, salmon in any form. I know it seems weird but it really can accumulate nasty stuff in your body.

As long as he's taking the supplement that makes up a LOT. You don't need the sky high sources of Omega 3, too much Omega 3 may be bad too because it can lower cholesterol that may be needed to make testosterone. As long as he's taking the fish oil, eating red meat/eggs, and isn't loading up on Omega 6's from milk replacers it's all good.

[ruby_blue]

Ah ok thanks. I literally read that & deleted the large pack of smoked salmon I’d put into my online shop basket 😂 If I’m having two pieces of salmon a week, it looks like there’s no room for it right now!

Is there a particular brand of tea which is best, or just regular PG tips? And decaf is just as good? Would you recommend I start soon, drinking one cup a day minimum? Out of interest, is there something in the tea that is helpful or is it more anecdotal evidence?

Thanks Atomic 😊 xx

[atomic sagebrush]

Yep keep in mind that the point is simply to avoid any of the nasty stuff that may have been absorbed into the flesh of fish (even low mercury fish) so smoked salmon and regular salmon both start off as salmon and count as servings.

Whatever brand you can get ahold of. One cup is fine if that's where your appetite leads you. We do not know how swaying works, so anything I say regarding what is in tea is somewhat guesswork, but we believe that because tea has flavonoid polyphenols in it, it boosts fertility overall and everything that boosts fertility has proven good for boys. Tea also may help with increasing cervical mucus (tho this may be just an artifact of staying better hydrated; we honestly do not know) and seems to have an overall beneficial effect on female hormones overall.

[ruby_blue]

Hmm ok interesting… I googled it & the first thing that came up said: ‘ The decaffeination process removes not only caffeine, but also polyphenols and some antioxidants’. So I think regular tea might be better. And hey, I feel so flat at the moment anything’s gotta help right!? Do you recommend keeping it up throughout the trying period too (and into possible pregnancy)? Sorry I’ve been so stuck on this tea question 😂 I think I’ve always equated pregnancy/trying with avoiding caffeine - but anything which could help & improves CM is definitely worth a shot in my view 👍 xx

[atomic sagebrush]

There's really very little caffeine in green tea especially. Black has some more, but nowhere near the amount in coffee.

Decaf tea is ok. Please feel free to drink it. Even if the levels are reduced some, there is still a lot of stuff left that may sway blue (and please keep in mind that the polyphenols/antioxidants are just guesswork and not proven in any way. it may be something else entirely in tea, like the tannic acid or some other component, that sways blue that is not negatively affected by decaffeination.)

I have always had tea in all my pregnancies, and coffee in some of them. There are a couple studies that seem to link too much caffeine with higher chances of losses, but this was overturned and it's been found that the equivalent of as much as two cups of coffee (and that would be 4-6 cups tea, depending on the kind you use) does not raise risks. https://www.webmd.com/baby/features/does-caffeine-raise-risk-of-miscarriage And additionally, the effect of even MORE caffeine was mitigated if you're taking multivitamins (and possibly extra folic acid/folate, which I do recommend) https://www.webmd.com/baby/features/does-caffeine-raise-risk-of-miscarriage This doesn't even get into the notion that any woman who is willing to drink a massive amount of coffee during pregnancy is likely not living a healthy lifestyle overall, which may really make a huge difference aside from caffeine intake (the caffeine may be a completely incidental finding).

Now, after some losses I can understand why anyone would think to skip caffeine but I personally think that tea can be great for fertility and is certainly a better choice than many beverages people consume - even things like fruit juice, which are high in sugar if you have them in excess! https://www.mireproductivemedicine.com/tea-is-a-wonderful-healthy-beverage-choice/

[ruby_blue]

I'm literally having my first ever cup of tea right now :) thank you for the introduction! I may buy decaf tea bags too and mix it up, some days with caffeine and some days without caffeine. I just wanted to check there wasn't a shock to the system if you suddenly dropped caffeine, maybe after BFP, the way there is if you suddenly drop, say, a vitamin pill.

Talking of which, I was thinking: I'm currently taking one Centrum women tablet (with 300ug folic acid), then one 1000mcg folate and then two 400ug folates later in the day... when I start to run out of the 1000mcg tablets, would it be better to buy 400 tablets instead and take two of these instead of the 1000?

If I did that then my total would be 300 + (400 x 4) = 1,900.
Whereas my current total is 300 + 1000 + (400 x 2) = 2,100

So it would be a drop, but not much... or I can just buy the 1000 tablets again and keep going as I started!

I was thinking of buying either
-- 400ug tablets : https://www.amazon.co.uk/Solgar-Folate-Metafolin%C2%AE-400-Tablets/dp/B00H7JYKHQ/ref=sr_1_5?dchild=1&keywords=folate&qid=1630580142&rdc=1&sr=8-5)
-- 1000mcg tablets: https://www.amazon.co.uk/L-Methylfolate-capsules-Supports-pregnancy-Magnesium/dp/B01706V0UU/ref=sr_1_6?dchild=1&keywords=folate&qid=1630580580&sr=8-6

December feels sooooo far off :( but it's so damn cold here right now, Summer is definitely over!

Let me know what you think of the above :) and thank you so much, as ever xx

[atomic sagebrush]

I would be prepared to wean off caffeine gradually. It can cause headaches when stopped suddenly. I don't think it's harmful to a pregnancy per se but as far as I'm aware it has never been studied, and so I would gradually come back off it.

I do prefer you guys use the 400 mcg. What I would suggest is maybe even going up one more 400 mcg to 2300, it's ok (many of us, myself included, are prescribed up to 4000-5000 mcg if we've had unexplained losses and/or history of neural tube defects...I was told to take 4000 mcg with my 4th and 5th pregnancies because my 3rd son has a mild form of spina bifida). Tea can be somewhat harsh on folic acid/folate so a little extra as you've started drinking it is ok and possibly even beneficial.

Ugh, same here too!! We had a ridiculously hot summer and then all of a sudden it went from 100 degrees to 65! :/Sweater weather coming soon!!

[ruby_blue]

Heyyy Atomic, I hope all is well. I've got quite used to having a cup of tea a day now :)

Thanks for the info on folate. When I run out, I'll buy 400ug tablets and up the overall daily dose slightly.
I noticed the other day I'm running low on COQ10. DH and I currently take 100mg a day each - should I buy this dose again, or up it?

Also I'm really missing my sugarfree gum and sweets... fruit just doesn't cut it! Is there a good blue sway sweet treat?! I was thinking yoghurt but not sure what the best one to buy is, I'm guessing one without tons of sugar but also not low fat? Thanks a million xxx

[atomic sagebrush]

Just continue at 100 mg coq10. That's plenty for a blue sway (higher doses may lower blood sugar) and it's super expensive. You will get the benefits for egg quality at 100.

Yogurt is great for blue. Sugar in them is fine, just be sure to get full fat. Also, if you haven't tried dates (the fruit, LOL) they are a really good replacement for sweets and are said to be good for boys. Larabars (a nut and date based bar) are quite delicious and come in lots of different flavors for many different cravings. And if need be, dark chocolate and choc covered nuts are both completely allowed on the HE Diet.

[ruby_blue]

Ok thanks - and yes, some of these supps are soooo expensive. I even started to wonder if maybe I'd started a bit too early and should be saving them, but I'm hoping this will give us the best shot- and DH is far from young!

And thanks, I'm going to get some Activia yoghurt. So much yoghurt these days is marketed as 'low fat'! Are dried dates ok? I used to be obsessed with dried dates and nuts, until I realised how much sugar was in them... but if I'm doing it for the right reasons then that's fine :)

I've sometimes been accidentally missing snacks, due to rushing around / general disorganisation, but figure that as long as I'm roughly following the diet, I can get really strict about it from the beginning of November, which will still give me a month and a half before we start trying... I wish it could come sooner! xx

[atomic sagebrush]

If it's really killing you financially you can reduce to 3x a week as a kind of maintenance dose, but if there's any way to keep going daily I do suggest that.

YES it's my personal pet peeve because skim and even part skim dairy is NOT the health food as it was marketed, it's actually quite bad for fertility and has a really negative effect on blood sugar levels. But they keep on with the lowfat yogurts, I think because they can sell that good fat from the milk someplace else. Full fat dairy all the way!

As long as you're using them sparingly to satisfy cravings it's all good. Healthier choice than doughnuts! ;)

Yes absolutely you're doing exactly right - no need to start doing the snacks and stuff till you're nearer to attempt!

[ruby_blue]

So weird - I wrote out a reply and it seems to have disappeared :s ! In summary, I just said - that's fine, I'll keep taking supps daily + iron twice a week. Also wondered if any of these supps can make women ovulate earlier than normal as I've been tracking my temps and a recent increase seems to suggest I ovulated around day 18 rather than the usual day 30! It could be an error but it will be interesting to see if my cycles become shorter as a result of the supps and/or change in diet. Unfortunately it also makes planning ahead reeeealllly tricky!

On the full fat dairy note I literally went out this morning and bought the highest fat yoghurt I could find! It better taste good!!

I need to think of some nice dressings for veg as I'm finding it hard to eat my greens... I remember you mentioning one before so I'll have a look through. Also I may have asked this already (sorry if so!) but shall I order some Robittuson to have around O in December? I know to get the one with the right active ingredient etc, just wondering if it's def a blue sway tactic?

Thanks a million and have a lovely weekend :) xxx

[atomic sagebrush]

If you write a reply and it seems to disappear, refresh the page BEFORE typing anything. We do have an autosave feature, but you often need to refresh before the reply will show back up, and if you type anything in the meantime then it autosaves the new reply and you lose the original!

Yes, if you're getting nutritional elements you were lacking you can absolutely start ovulating earlier. We LIKE to hear that!! Ovulating CD 30 means fewer tries - I get that it does also mean planning ahead is harder but you're gonna get 2 chances to conceive where before you were only getting one, so that's ok in my book, and hopefully yours as well!

Oh I like the Brianna's dressings, if you can find those in your neck of the woods. They are delish! But any dressings you like are all good as long as they have no artificial sweetener.

Yes we do believe that guaifenesin is still good for blue. Plus it may help you conceive more quickly. :agree:

[atomic sagebrush]

If you write a reply and it seems to disappear, refresh the page BEFORE typing anything. We do have an autosave feature, but you often need to refresh before the reply will show back up, and if you type anything in the meantime then it autosaves the new reply and you lose the original!

Yes, if you're getting nutritional elements you were lacking you can absolutely start ovulating earlier. We LIKE to hear that!! Ovulating CD 30 means fewer tries - I get that it does also mean planning ahead is harder but you're gonna get 2 chances to conceive where before you were only getting one, so that's ok in my book, and hopefully yours as well!

Oh I like the Brianna's dressings, if you can find those in your neck of the woods. They are delish! But any dressings you like are all good as long as they have no artificial sweetener.

Yes we do believe that guaifenesin is still good for blue. Plus it may help you conceive more quickly. :agree:

[ruby_blue]

Cool, I will order that. And look out for Brianna! One more quick q - I noticed today that I’m running low on the folic acid 400mg pills I’ve been feeding to DH once a day.

I’d like to just buy 400mg folate as I can have this too, but can I give this to DH once a day instead of the folic acid? I’m really unclear on what’s best for men to take. It would just save me from buying two separate bottles, but I don’t mind if I have to. Thank you 😊 xx

[atomic sagebrush]

Yes you can absolutely switch DH to folate. And unlike going from folate to folic acid, going from folic acid to folate is fine to do all at once without having to wean from the one to the other. Folate is generally considered better for everyone.

[ruby_blue]

You're a star :) thanks so much. DH is currently being forced to take so many pills he says he rattles when he walks, lol! I'll order lots of folate as I'm going to switch to 400mg once I'm out of these 1000s! xx

[atomic sagebrush]

If he's getting that amount in his men's multi (400 mcg) you can have him wean off the additional folate/FA over the span of a couple weeks and just take the multivitamin. That's one way to cut a little of the pilltaking anyway!

[ruby_blue]

Oh woops I didn't even think of that... I checked the label of his Centrum Men 50+ and it has 300ug of folic acid. So he's actually been on a higher daily dose than I realised! Shall I wean him off the extra folic acid or add on the 400mg Folate instead? I don't mind him taking extra (look at me speaking for him, haha) if it gives us a better chance. Folate and folic acid are both on the cheaper end anyway :)

Also I was looking at new Carnitine tablets (can you tell I'm on a supplement-buying rampage?!) and was wondering if this one looked any good? I've copied out nutritional info:

Vit D3 - 400iu
Riboflavin (Vit B2) - 0.7mg
Niacin (Vit B3) - 8mg
Vit B6 - 0.7mg
Biotin - 25ug
Chromium - 40ug
L-Carnitine L-Tartrate - 1100mg

The link is: https://www.amazon.co.uk/L-Carnitine-Complex-Riboflavin-Macronutrient-Metabolism/dp/B08LQHD9G3/ref=sr_1_1_sspa?dchild=1&keywords=carnitine&qid=1631982738&sr=8-1-spons&psc=1&spLa=ZW5jcnlwdGVkUXVhbGlmaWVyPUEyRUxXUlFEMzJHR0c0J mVuY3J5cHRlZElkPUEwNjk5Mjk4MUVLSUNQMTA1TlE0SSZlbmN yeXB0ZWRBZElkPUEwODU4OTEzM0pZRE82V1FJRzNTSSZ3aWRnZ XROYW1lPXNwX2F0ZiZhY3Rpb249Y2xpY2tSZWRpcmVjdCZkb05 vdExvZ0NsaWNrPXRydWU=

Just wanted to ask as I remember you advising others to avoid anything with too much of other stuff in it... and this is a wee bit over the 1000mg a day he's been taking xx

[atomic sagebrush]

I would just wean him off of it. Men don't need the additional folic acid/folate since they won't be pregnant.

No that's all fine. The other stuff is a pretty low dose, so adding onto his normal vitamin is not a big deal.

[ruby_blue]

Thanks so much for letting me know 👍 saves me wasting my folate tablets on him lol!

And that’s great, I’ll add the new Carnitine to my order 😊 thank you so much again for answering all my questions, you’ve really been here for me this year… it means a lot xx

[ruby_blue]

p.s. thought you might find this interesting: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-58615838

[atomic sagebrush]

My pleasure!

[atomic sagebrush]

p.s. thought you might find this interesting: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-58615838

Oh yes, that's been a longstanding debate in the UK!! Thanks for sharing it, hadn't seen that yet!

[ruby_blue]

My pleasure :) I hope you’re doing well Atomic - I just had one more question about breakfast/food. I’m currently eating 3 spoons of oat bran + 2 spoons of oats with full fat milk, plus nuts, plus fruit, for breakfast. Is this boy friendly? It’s certainly very filling but I realised I never read anything about oat bran before on here…

Thanks ✨ xx

[atomic sagebrush]

Oat bran is quite high in fiber, which can absorb nutrients. I'd probably just go with the oats alone, but I doubt it really causes any harm

[ruby_blue]

Hey Atomic, I hope you’re well. Unfortunately I have a sinus infection:( I can’t taste or smell a thing! Which is making eating more really really difficult (I currently have zero appetite- at any other time this would be a great way to lose some weight!).

I’ve requested a course of antibiotics from my doctors and wondering if this will mess with my sway at all? And if so, what I could do to combat it?

I’m so annoyed this has happened and it’s definitely led to me eating less / not having my snacks, but I’m still trying to mix protein and carbs as often as I can…

Should have kept washing my hands 🤦🏻*♀️

Thanks 😊 xx

[ruby_blue]

Hey Atomic, I hope you’re well. Unfortunately I have a sinus infection:( I can’t taste or smell a thing! Which is making eating more really really difficult (I currently have zero appetite- at any other time this would be a great way to lose some weight!).

I’ve requested a course of antibiotics from my doctors and wondering if this will mess with my sway at all? And if so, what I could do to combat it?

I’m so annoyed this has happened and it’s definitely led to me eating less / not having my snacks, but I’m still trying to mix protein and carbs as often as I can…

Should have kept washing my hands!

Thanks :) xx

[atomic sagebrush]

Oh no, hope you're feeling better soon!

The old school swayers clamed that antibiotics swayed blue due to pH stuff. Now, I'm fairly skeptical of this, but it is a theory that some people do believe in. We have had such good results for blue with PRObiotics I'm at a loss to explain how both things could possibly sway blue.

[ruby_blue]

Thank you Atomic! And yes, I don't get how both could work... I actually hate taking antibiotics, it feels like I'm clearing out all the good stuff from my system (along with the bad!).

Someone recently recommended mushroom complex tablets to me and I'm wondering if this might help my sway? (would give to DH too). I hope this link works:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/10-Mushroom-Complex-Spectrum-Cordyceps/dp/B07ND2HTPC/ref=sr_1_5?dchild=1&keywords=10+Mushroom+Complex&qid=1634823178&sr=8-5

I thought it might help boost our immune systems. Also we've been taking the pills for so long now, maybe we need a little something extra ...

Let me know what you think :)

Many thanks xx

[atomic sagebrush]

No. I do not recommend anything like that because firstly, we don't have any evidence how those things sway (sadly, no one is out here testing various herbs and spices to see if people get more boys/girls on them) and secondly, MOST importantly, we do not know if it's safe. There is so very little testing done on any of these things, let alone how they interact with your own personal body, other supplements you're taking, etc that we cannot know if they're safe to use.

Most people's immune system does not NEED boosting (and those who do need help far beyond some mushrooms, LOL). Millions of people, particularly women, actually have the opposite problem - our immune systems are actually attacking ourselves (and have been known to attack fetuses as well). It is just not a good idea to take things like this when TTC, even if other people swear by them. They may have their own unique biology, or maybe they just got lucky and didn't suffer ill effects that you are going to.

[ruby_blue]

Thank you! So glad I asked you first. I bumped into my friend at the gym today who was just raving about them, saying they've transformed his life and a couple of his friends too etc etc... (honestly, they should sponsor him lol). I was going to buy them too, just on this recommendation! Bit definitely won't right now.

I'll stick with what I'm taking then :) shall I maybe take some extra probiotics for a bit, to counter the antibiotic effect? It does recommend to do so on the packet.. xx

[atomic sagebrush]

Yes absolutely you can and should take extra probiotics for now, and even a week or ten days past when you stop taking them. It really can make a difference!

[ruby_blue]

Thanks Atomic... I've just been reading over our thread (wow I ask a lot of questions!) as I'm trying to focus myself to really start going for it on the diet front soon. I guess it doesn't come very naturally to me as I'm more of a 'rush around, grab a snack, don't bother to cook' kind of girl! But I've really reduced my fish intake and am having three or four small steaks a week, plus greens, plus sweet potatoes and squash, so fingers crossed! I'm also obsessed with those dark chocolate Lindt balls, which I'm not sure is necessarily a great swaying tactic, but they are great! I've also been having a cup of tea every morning, either regular or decaf. And always full fat milk :)

I was wondering the other day... are there are special foods you recommend (for either men or women swaying blue) during the actively trying period / ovulation? DH is still cycling quite a bit and has gone back to vaping (sigh) so I'm wondering if there's anything I could add to his, or both, our diets - particularly around the time we try (and we're still a way off as looking at late December!) to give us both an extra boost or something?

Many thanks, once again, it means the world to me to have someone to speak to about this xxx

[atomic sagebrush]

No not at all, questions are fun for me.

Dark choc is the best of treats for blue swayers!

I don't recommend any particular foods beyond what I've already recommended. There is nothing special that happens that week before ovulation dietwise, so just stay the course.

If there was anything that could undo harm from cycling and vaping I'd already have you guys doing that. Just have him do his best with overall eating more healthfully and "cleaning the pipes" on a regular basis and you're still going to get good results with your sway. We do have pink swayers whose hubbies do those things and still get boys doing that.

[ruby_blue]

Ok thanks Atomic :) so far I reckon the 'cleaning the pipes' has been every 3-4 days. I've been careful to not let there be a gap of more than 4 days.

Do you think it's worth, in the 6 weeks leading up to ovulation in late December (so from early November) attempting to make this more frequent, like every other day to every 3 days?

Also! Been meaning to ask for ages - what’s the best oil to use for salad dressing? Is walnut oil ok, or is olive oil better? Or I can warm up coconut oil to use. Just want to use whatever is most effective Thanks so much :) xx

[atomic sagebrush]

Nope. We have no evidence that 3 days is any better than 4. The studies found that 2-4 days all produced good sperm health. I like you guys to ahve the flexibility to go anywhere from 2-4 days instead of getting locked into a specific number of days because that way if something doesn't work out you can always have the attempt a different day.

[ruby_blue]

Ok phew, I literally just checked your reply as we’ve both been really lazy (ie getting tired and old lol!) and are already at day 4… so it’s good to know there’s a window!

So thanks for clarifying :) and if you could let me know about the oil too that would be great as I get a bit muddled around omega 3’s & 6’s. I seem to remember reading that coconut oil is best for blue but can’t find that written now… I do remember you saying butter’s better than olive oil though (just a shame it’s not as easy to use in cooking!) Xx

[atomic sagebrush]

Oh gosh I'm sorry, I read that and everything but I must have gotten interrupted mid-question.

It's best to try to eat more Omega 3 than Omega 6. But for salad dressing, the lighter oils are a lot tastier than the heavier ones, so it's fine to have Omega 6 oils at times when they're needed and desirable.

[ruby_blue]

That’s ok! I actually read the walnut oil contains omega 3, so maybe I’ll stick with that on greens.

I was also going to say, I picked up some Actimel immune support yoghurt drinks today, had one, and then noticed that they contain skimmed milk. Should I avoid them? I’m still having whole milk at other times. Here’s a link in case you’re not sure what I’m on about! https://www.ocado.com/products/actimel-strawberry-drinking-yoghurts-54211011?ds_rl=1291531&ds_rl=1291426&gclid=Cj0KCQjww4OMBhCUARIsAILndv55yQl5ZLN78Qdl9j4Y ROkLtl-1d3HtdlMKOedaZqhBTiu3hOgfNK4aAiwvEALw_wcB&gclsrc=aw.ds

Thanks very much :) xx

[ruby_blue]

Hmm not sure if my reply sent - just in case: I said that I read walnut oil contains omega 3, so I guess I can stick with that on greens!

Also I picked up a box of Actimel Immune support yoghurt drinks, after being on antibiotics but then saw that they contain skimmed milk. I’m still drinking whole milk at other times, so not sure if they’re okay to drink or not (I’ve already had one!). Thanks very much xx

[atomic sagebrush]

Oh darn it, it went into the spam filter, I've approved it. If that happens and you can't see your post (sometimes if you share a link, it will, and sometimes it just does it at random no rhyme or reason) just post again in the same thread and then I'll be able to see it and approve it.

:agree: walnut oil is just dandy on a salad!

Occasional use of the skim/part skim is ok. That's fine to help you get over the antibiotics.

[ruby_blue]

Hi Atomic, hope all is well with you. I’m moving into the one month before TTC territory which is exciting and very nerve racking! It feels like it’s been forever now! I just want to check a few things with you if that’s ok, plus it’s always nice to hear from you :)

1. Firstly is there anything in the number of hours that you sleep per night in helping a blue sway? I’m bad at getting to bed early, so should I be aiming to be in bed by a certain time / for a certain number of hours per night?
2. Secondly, should we be upping any of the supplements and should DH space his Carnitine 500mg tablets (as he’s been taking both in one go?). I’m about to up my intake slightly to (400 x 5=) 2000mg Folate) + 300mg Folic Acid (in Centrum). I could take more if needs be as I’ve been on these high levels since around April…
3. Should I try to up certain foods in the final lead up? I don’t think I’ve really put on much weight at all.. but I am eating as regularly as possible as I think the key is to not let blood sugar drop?
4. If I get a flashing smiley for several days (I think my record is 10 days in a row) then should we aim to dtd every other day? We’re currently on a every 2-4 day pattern. Happy to try to go to every other day in December if it will help.

Any final bits of advice would be so appreciated :)

Thanks so much, as ever xx

[atomic sagebrush]

Exciting! Good luck and blue dust headed your way! :bluecheer: :bluecheer: :bluecheer:

1)Yes, we have found that adequate sleep is good for blue sways. I don't have a set number of hours, firstly because it really takes a LOT of sleep deprivation to sway pink (I have oft been low on sleep and gotten boys, it was only when I was insanely, life ruiningly low on sleep I got my girl) and so I don't want people to feel anxious when they're not super well rested, and secondly because mentally, the more you focus on specific set numbers of hours to sleep, the more people get worried and anxious about not meeting that number of hours, and that actually contributes to trouble sleeping. Monitoring hours of sleep is actually something that people with insomnia have to STOP doing to get over their insomnia.

Just do your best to get more sleep than you were. That's all you need to do.

2)just keep taking the amount of supplements you have been taking. No need for more, and in fact in some cases suddenly taking too many supplements can mess up the menstrual cycle (tho higher amounts of folate doesn't seem to have that effect). It's at your husband's discretion about when to take the carnitine. I'd probably just have him keep doing what he's been doing.

3)You don't need to gain much if any weight. 3-5 pounds is plenty for most people, and many people only gain 1-3 lbs. (I gained 3 lbs with 3 of my 4 boys, and held steady with the other one). We actually see a lot of girls conceived to people who gain huge amounts very quickly (and I really dislike it when people do it.) I have not seen any benefit (and indeed, another source of stress that can lead to blue swayers feeling very overwhelmed) in eating certain foods. We want you to go into this sway feeling you have this all mastered perfectly, not that you're doing things "wrong" and that you're leaving stuff out and you can't get it right. So we try to keep things simple, set attainable goals, and then treat it as a lifestyle you have mastery over and are knocking it out of the ballpark. Sudden last minute changes are not really conducive to that, so just keep doing what you've been doing and what you're already succeeding at.

4)Can your husband keep up with that pace?? If he can, and still be capable of having 3 attempts at or around positive OPK (solid smiley), then that's fine. If he can't or you're worried that he will run out of steam, I would go every 2 days OR every 2 days early on then every other day closer to when you expect positive OPK.

[ruby_blue]

Thanks so much for all of this - you are too kind. What a supportive message. I'm currently in disagreement with DH about when we start trying which is really stressful and not what I need right now at all... but trying to stay positive as I really want to try soon... I'll keep you posted on everything and please keep your fingers crossed for me :) thank you for the blue dust xxxxx

[atomic sagebrush]

Fingers and toes crossed too, and sending an army of Smurfs armed with special atomic blue dust your way!

[ruby_blue]

Love this... it really made me smile today and I needed to read it :) Thank you so much, for everything xxx

[ruby_blue]

Hello! :) I had to send one more (at least I think it's only one more!) message. I hope that's ok...!

- I have Robitussin and I'm pretty sure I know which day I will ovulate next month. Shall I start taking 10ml every day 10 days before suspected ovulation? Or would taking it for less than 10 days suffice?
- Is there anything in certain sexual positions helping a blue sway (is finishing from behind going to help)?
- Finally, I think my body has got SO used to blue-friendly foods that I've lost weight recently. I never weigh myself but my appetite is low and I think I've just adjusted to full-fat everything. Should I aim to extra snacks through the day to help the sway?

Such a clinical message! haha

I'm getting super nervous as the time to try approaches (do nerves sway?! lol!) - especially as my partner isn't fully on board at the moment, but I'm determined to pull this off... somehow.... I mean it's been such a terrible year, I really want to go into 2022 with something great and change my story :) xxxx

[atomic sagebrush]

Yes of course that's what I'm here for!

We honestly don't know how long you need to take the guaifenesin for. Use your judgement. I generally think 5 days before O thru 3 days after is MORE than enough, probably even just a couple days around O is enough, but the 5/3 is how most people do it.

There probably is nothing to positions and swaying. I know of gobs of people who did doggy style and got girls (thinking that doggy was the magic boy position). Totally up to you what position you use, I probably wouldn't DTD standing up but whatever you are in the mood for.

If you're actually losing weight, yes, you should eat more (if snacks help with that, so be it). But be SURE you're really losing weight. One of the benefits of eating more fat is that it "sticks to your ribs" more and you won't feel as hungry as eating mostly carbs, but since you're not weighing yourself, I don't want you to add food if you're really holding steady.

It's totally normal for everyone to feel nervous when considering TTC! That simply can't sway either way since we all feel that!! Hang in there and hoping 2022 is GREAT for you!

[ruby_blue]

Hey Atomic, how are you doing? I didn’t think I would write again before my attempt, but things aren’t really going to plan and I’m in a bit of a state about it all… It’s been a pretty big month of drinking for DH, he’s had lots of beers on our holiday a few weeks ago and keeps meeting up with friends now we’re back home for beers. He’s also cycling a lot…

I haven’t been drinking at all, but I’ve somehow managed to get a sore throat and not feeling 100%. I’ve been sticking with the diet, but feel generally rundown. I think I will probably ovulate around this weekend, and I’m really worried that all the drinking plus a cycling DH is doing at the moment will really damage our chance of a blue sway. And maybe my stress isn’t helping!

I’ve started to even think it’s crazy to be doing a blue sway in December when there is so much alcohol around! What do you reckon? I don’t think I can stand much more waiting, but I just really want us to give this our best shot. DH is so stubborn in his ways ugh xxx

[ruby_blue]

Ps i’ve been scouring the site trying to decide what to do… I really, really wanted to try this month, but from what I’ve read it seems that being ill will sway pink? I have a very sore throat and it's affected my voice. It's hard to sleep at night as I have that constant need to clear my throat; also I feel more tired than usual.

I've had two 'high fertility' days in a row now, so I imagine I will have peak fertility either tomorrow or on Friday. I'm in such a quandary over what to do. I think I've read every forum discussion on the topic and, while I know it's not a guarantee, it does seem that the odds are stacked against me this month. Because I'm not feeling great and DH has been drinking and cycling more. It's just such a shame as I was SO looking forward to trying, after 6 months of waiting, plus my ovulation coincided with a weekend, so we would have been able to get lots of attempts in... and I'm pretty sure I would have ovulated when there's the next full moon!

Also, I've been on the diet and supps since the beginning of September and will have to buy more of everything :( I don't think I've put on much weight at all though, so that's not a concern... it's just so disappointing. I never figured I would get ill during this time.

Our BD pattern this month has been on CDs: 2, 5, 7, 10, 13, 15 (yesterday). I am expecting peak fertility on CD 17-19 and to ovulate on CD 20.

Could I be in pink sway territory if I just leave my last attempt at CD 15...?! :s

I'd so appreciate you letting me know what to do. I don't want to ruin a good sway due to impatience - but I'm also confused about how ill you have to be to sway pink. If I feel better by tomorrow/ the weekend / peak fertility, should I go for it? Or just cut my losses and use protection over this time? Thanks a million x

[atomic sagebrush]

My gut instinct is for you to have more attempts since you've already had an attempt CD 15. The worst case scenario here would be to ovulate sooner than you expected to, and conceive from that one attempt, when we could have had more. We would have essentially outwitted ourselves, undermining our sway by trying to have an ideal month.

That having been said, if you are REALLY REALLY sure you won't ovulate till CD 20, then the odds of conception from having an attempt CD 15 are slim to none. In that case yes, it's fine to stop having sex and just count on being out this month, but I have seen a fair number of people do this, stop TTC with what seemd like plenty of time to spare, only to turn up pregnant and kicking themselves over it. in fact, this actually happened to me twice - both with my first and my second boys (so you can see long cutoffs don't really sway pink anyway! It's the number of attempts that is concerning) The first time I was hoping to not get pregnant and I stopped having sex at what should have been a long enough time not to get pregnant, and the second time we were trying but my husband changed his mind in the middle and we stopped having sex several days before I expected ovulation. Now, it's pretty clear I did ovulate early both those months but still it had to be a fairly long cutoff and I was really surprised when I conceived.

My point in telling you this is not to scare you into having an attempt if you aren't wanting to have one - the cycling a lot in particular is relatively concerning to me - but so you aren't caught unawares not even knowing that was a possibility. The odds are sky high that you can stop having sex now and not conceive, but i wouldn't be doing my job if I didn't at least mention the possibility.

So as to whether or not you should attempt, that's one of those crystal ball questions I really don't have an answer for. If you'll live 1000 lifetimes of regret trying and getting a girl, best to skip the month, but do keep in mind that for all we know this was a fine month for you to have a boy and next month may not be. There are just too many things we do not know about how swaying works for me to be able to predict anyone's chances.

We honestly do not know how sick you have to be to affect your sway negatively. Just not possible with the data I ahve available to me, to say.

[ruby_blue]

Hi, thanks so much for replying. It's so hard to say for sure when I will ovulate, but I was predicting CD 20 because my past couple of cycles have been 34 days long with suspected ovulation on day 20. It's harder to tell this cycle because my temp seems to be elevated :(

Is there anything I can do now to help in the mean time? I'm guessing no exercise at all, or maybe moderate exercise? I've also had a bit of a headache but not sure how ibroprufen / paracetamol could affect a sway?

Oh God, this feels like it's happening way too soon and I wish things could be a bit more under my control but I'll do my best to stay calm! x

[atomic sagebrush]

I would just do what feels right. If you don't feel like exercising, then don't. As for painkillers, I doubt they do a whole lot (I have always taken them off and on because I have a lot of headaches from surgery I had when I was a teen, and have four boys!) So while it's great to avoid them if possible, if you're really struggling then I'd let yourself indulge a bit.

Even if your cycle has ALWAYS been O on CD 20, it is possible to see that change at any time. Our cycles are not set in stone at all and that's why I mention it, is so you know going in and aren't blindsided. Good luck and I hope you're feeling better soon!

[ruby_blue]

It’s really difficult, I keep thinking that I’m feeling a little better, and then coughing and thinking no, I feel awful and I have really got no chance of a good blue sway… It also doesn’t help knowing that my partner has been cycling a lot more this week than normal. Do you think his long cycles on Monday, Tuesday and Wednesday would affect our weekend?

If I do have another attempt, it would be tomorrow, as well as a couple of times over the weekend. I’m going to take in ovulation test in the morning as usual, and if it shows high rather than peak fertility again, maybe I should wait? I just don’t know, I’m going round in a circle! Sorry for my super repetitive and probably quite annoying messages! X

[GoofyGurl]

Hi ruby_blue! I'm swaying blue too and was in a similar situation as you this cycle. I had a cold. We ended up just going for it and I'm now in the TWW. Not sure if this is helpful at all. Just wanted to share so you know you're not alone and I totally understand what you're feeling. Sending you lots of blue dust regardless of what you decide!

[ruby_blue]

Oh that’s super helpful, thank you! It’s nice to escape the echo chamber of my own, mad mind at the moment… I even got out my old tarot deck tonight lol. It’s really impossible to know what to do, whether to just go for it or stop now, and wait until next month.
Was your cold really bad? I certainly feel rundown, but it’s not the worst illness I’ve had. Wondering if my worrying is actually making things worse too! Thanks for the blue dust, sending it your way too! :)

[GoofyGurl]

My cold actually got me good! I didn't have a fever but was super congested. I couldn't even taste my food but I still tried to keep up with the HE diet as best as I could. I had skipped the month prior thinking it wasn't the best month only to be left with yet another less ideal month. As atomic said, there really is no "perfect" month! I figured since I got a positive OPK around the time I normally would have had I not been sick, that was at least a good sign? Haha, that's what pretty much set the trigger for just going for it! That and the fact we're now in cold and flu season where I live so will likely have another less than perfect month again. Hope that helps! :)

[ruby_blue]

I so appreciate all the replies on this. It’s the middle of the night where I am and I can’t sleep because my throat is so, so bad… Although I don’t think there is such thing as a perfect month, my instincts are actually telling me to stop now and wait for next month. I just feel so rough unlike all my hard work will not amount to much this month.

I don’t know, I’ll see how I’m doing tomorrow but I haven’t had any signs of ovulation coming yet, except for the flashing smileys,, no CM to speak of despite lots of grapefruit juice and Robitussin. I think I’ll make a decision tomorrow but I may risk just waiting - blummin cold and flu season, ugh!!!! I’m wondering as well if being sick may delay ovulation…? X

[ruby_blue]

Ps @Atomic — I was thinking, if I keep checking my ovulation, and it keeps showing flashing faces, then I may start using protection again, but if I have a solid smiley tomorrow or Friday (cd 17 or 18), then I should go ahead with unprotected sex, as my last attempt was cd15? Maybe cd 19 too, or is that a big enough gap? I’m thinking being sick (or this stress!) may well delay O.. x

Update: tests taken this morning have only added to confusion! Temperature is still up as I am sick. Cheap OPK says low fertility. Yet Clear Blue OPK still has flashing smiley. No CM or sex drive to speak of!

[ruby_blue]

Update: another flashing smiley…

So it’s been: CD14 (low), 15 (flashing, BD), 16 (flashing), 17 (flashing), 18 (flashing).

I still don’t feel very well and would have expected some more signs of O by now..: I think it’s going to be delayed for some reason. Should this be a cause for concern? I’m also wondering whether I have ovulated ‘weakly’ this month and somehow missed it, which would really mess up my plans… but I’ve never ovulated before CD16 before. And surely I wouldn’t have got a low to a high result from CD14 to 15 if that was the case?

I reckon wait it out another month? Would love to hear thoughts on this as it’s currently driving me more than a little crazy….!

Thanks Atomic! X

[ruby_blue]

Ps @goofygurl - let me know how you get on! As you can probably see from my ramblings, the trying/not trying is really getting to me! I also think I’m a bit scared to even try after a year of losses… Hope it goes well for you! I’m confused about what’s happening this cycle so holding out for a better month (and year!) x

[GoofyGurl]

I can definitely see why you're leaning towards waiting. I think I would have done the same had I gotten wonky OPK readings this past cycle. My period is due in a few days and so far BFN. I'm not holding my breath this month given the cold I had though. I had a loss too this year but hoping the new year will bring us both sticky beans!

[ruby_blue]

It’s nice to hear that someone is in the same boat, although I am so, so sorry to hear about your loss. I know how heartbreaking they are. After a couple, I made myself take a break and was really looking forward to starting in December… But now it’s come down to it I found that I’m actually petrified. It feels weird to know that ovulation is close and yet again I’m going to use protection, but I figure this year maybe just isn’t a good one for me! Let me know how you get on, and January should bring us lots of blue dust if things don’t work out this time :) x

[GoofyGurl]

Thanks so much, love how supportive everyone on this site is! The best we can do is to stay positive and believe that things will work out for us.

I'll keep you posted for sure! :)

[ruby_blue]

I know :)

And after all that…. I’ve decided to go for it this month. I guess there will never be a ‘perfect’ month and hopefully something good can come from this year after all (all fingers and toes crossed!) x

[GoofyGurl]

All of my fingers and toes are crossed for you as well, ruby! You've got this!

[atomic sagebrush]

I'm sorry, these came through after I'd worked on the 15th and then I was busy yesterday and didn't get through all my posts.

I can't tell what you guys did (haven't read the next page yet) but as a general rule I think that whatever you did was the right thing, if that makes any sense. Sometimes our heart "knows things" that our brain doesn't, so if it led you to attempt then that's great, if not, that's fine too and we'll go next month. Hope you're feeling better!!!

[atomic sagebrush]

Being sick absolutely CAN delay ovulation but that unfortunately may mean another reason to skip. If you're sick enough for O to come late it may just be this is the sign we're waiting on and since you haven't proceeded, it may be just best to wait it out this month. Of course we never know what will happen next month, but this month is just not ideal as it's shaking out. Your call to make of course!

[atomic sagebrush]

Ps @Atomic — I was thinking, if I keep checking my ovulation, and it keeps showing flashing faces, then I may start using protection again, but if I have a solid smiley tomorrow or Friday (cd 17 or 18), then I should go ahead with unprotected sex, as my last attempt was cd15? Maybe cd 19 too, or is that a big enough gap? I’m thinking being sick (or this stress!) may well delay O.. x

Update: tests taken this morning have only added to confusion! Temperature is still up as I am sick. Cheap OPK says low fertility. Yet Clear Blue OPK still has flashing smiley. No CM or sex drive to speak of!

What can happen is that your body kind of "thinks" about ovulating and then "decides" to hold off. So you can go from high fertility, and even from peak itself, back to low again and then you've not ovulated. In a few days or a week or two, you will then gear up to O and ovulate at that point in time. It's very common, and you will often see O symptoms with the positive or near positive OPK even if O does not occur, since it's the hormones that cause symptoms, not the egg being released. Then they'd clear up and you'd have the same thing again in a few days/week.

[atomic sagebrush]

Update: another flashing smiley…

So it’s been: CD14 (low), 15 (flashing, BD), 16 (flashing), 17 (flashing), 18 (flashing).

I still don’t feel very well and would have expected some more signs of O by now..: I think it’s going to be delayed for some reason. Should this be a cause for concern? I’m also wondering whether I have ovulated ‘weakly’ this month and somehow missed it, which would really mess up my plans… but I’ve never ovulated before CD16 before. And surely I wouldn’t have got a low to a high result from CD14 to 15 if that was the case?

I reckon wait it out another month? Would love to hear thoughts on this as it’s currently driving me more than a little crazy….!

Thanks Atomic! X

It is completely possible to have a false negative on an OPK, and to have missed O by ovulating earlier than expected, but that doesn't mean you have "ovulated weakly". That's really not a thing, though some people do still use that terminology about "strong" and "weak" ovulation, it's one of those things that is not medically proven. The darkness or even presence/absence of OPK doesn't tell us about the quality of ovulation anyway. Even if you never get a fully positive OPK, you can have ovulated and had an entirely normal ovulation, it's just that the hormone in your urine never got concentrated enough to register as positive.

[atomic sagebrush]

I know :)

And after all that…. I’ve decided to go for it this month. I guess there will never be a ‘perfect’ month and hopefully something good can come from this year after all (all fingers and toes crossed!) x

Oh ok great, once ovulation comes along, hit it with the three attempts!!

[ruby_blue]

Hey, thanks for all your replies. I really appreciate it! I know I’ve done a complete 180, but the more I thought about it, the more obstacles there seems to be next month as well, so I thought I should just stop living in fear and give it my best shot. There are some things which make me feel unconfident in my sway, but there’s no guarantee ever I guess.

Have you had lots of sway opposites in people who have been a bit under the weather when they did their sway? I’m not super sick, I just have a bit of a bad chest and a bit of a cough. At least it’s not Covid! It’s just niggly and annoying - worse at night.

We got one more attempt in today. I imagine I could see a long line of flashing faces, so may go to EOD if so. Sorry if I asked this already, but does delayed O sway pink? If it’s because of being a bit sick / stressed?!

Thanks a million as ever xx

[ruby_blue]

Hi atomic I’m starting to question myself again.

This morning I’ve woken up with a really chesty cough which sounds quite phlegm-y, and in much deeper voice than normal! Also I’ve taken another OPK test and the line seems to be getting fainter, but it’s still showing as a flashy smiley on clear blue.

Because I’m on CD 19, I would have expected my LH to have risen by now. Wondering if I should keep going with unprotected sex or write off this cycle now as one which isn’t working properly / not ideal? I could go back to using protection again …. I’m guessing from what you said that it would not be a good idea to try if ovulation does show up much later than normal? And it’s looking like it’s heading that way. Unless I’m going mad and have somehow missed it entirely.

Sorry to keep flip-flopping. I tend to feel worse in the mornings and at night, which is when I think I should wait, but during the day when I feel a bit better I think I should just go for it.

Many thanks X

[atomic sagebrush]

No not at all, it's totally fine to attempt this month. I agree that in many cases the next month will not be any better, and what's worse it can lead to this sort of fear of trying where anything that's less than optimal is a cause to postpone the month. Then swaying gets built up more and more inpeople's heads...blue swayers feel overwhelmed, pink swayers obsess more and more - it's just largely a better idea not to postpone the month whenever it's possible not to.

We honestly never really tracked the results in sick people. There's just no way to know for sure because people are doing so many things to sway, and their definitions of "sick" is all over the map. I'd love to have a study in people who weren't swaying to see what the gender ratio was but no one has done that yet.

Delayed O may sway somewhat pink but if your O is delayed to a point in which you're feeling better, that may actually be a good thing. I would try not to worry too much about the things that may sway pink for you, if you're going to try, try to stay positive and focused on the things that are swaying BLUE!

[atomic sagebrush]

I can't tell you what to do. I can see wisdom in waiting, but if as you're saying, next month is worse, then I've seen it go south for people in the past where they waited through months that were ok really only to conceive in months that ended up being way worse. I just can't know. I think your best bet may even be doing something like flipping a coin (tho I prefer that pink swayers do that, instead of blue swayers!)

I wish I coudl be of more help, but unfortunately my crystal ball is in the shop this week and with the holidays, who knows when I'll get it back>> LOL!

[ruby_blue]

Haha thanks so much Atomic, I feel so bad for all of my mad messages. I must sound like I’ve completely lost my mind! I think the build up over months and months has made me a little anxious, as has everything not going to plan.

What is concerning me is that in previous months I had a clearer indication of when ovulation was happening. This month, despite tracking and using test strips, I don’t really have much indication at all. I’m going to keep tracking and just play by ear, but now I am starting to think next month might be better. I get the waiting game isn’t a good long term plan, but my stress levels probably aren’t going to help anything…

Just to clarify, if I keep tracking and ovulation shows up, let’s say, a week later than usual (CD 25 or thereabouts), would it be good to go for it then? As I did previously think that a delayed ovulation would sway pink.?

DH is in a terrible mood today, so there will definitely won’t be any BD-ing around here for a while lol! I think im going to have to learn how to meditate or something… x

[atomic sagebrush]

Ruby, I just cannot say. I do think this is a weird month, and like I mentioned my gut instinct would be to have you wait, but it's your life and you know best.

[atomic sagebrush]

Oh and I hope DH mood improves! My husband turns into a monster just before holidays, which makes things a lot less fun!

[ruby_blue]

Thanks, it’s not very pleasant in our house at the moment! I’ve woken up feeling really, really ill. I have a really chesty cough, I’ve basically lost my voice and have a lot of chest pain. I’m just wondering, if I’m this ill, whether even trying next month would be a good idea?

I’ve also taken two more test strips this morning and the clear blue is still flashing :-), but the line on the cheap OPK is getting fainter and fainter by the day. God knows what this means happened my ovulation, but maybe I somehow missed it. I’d be amazed if I could conceive anything in this month, I feel rotten.

How long do you recommend waiting before swaying blue again? And would seeking antibiotics help a sway (if this is bacterial…) ? So fed up this is happening! Xx

[atomic sagebrush]

Next month will be fine as long as it resolves as a normal cold does. If it hangs on and you're very sick for 2+ weeks you may want to consider skipping, but do keep taking into account the other things going on.

I do think given that you're having chest pain you should seek medical attention. Whether or not this is bacterial, there are viral and even fungal pneumonias, and of course Covid as well to contend with.

This has nothing to do with your sway. I find the claims that some make that "antibiotics sway blue" to be utter nonsense, I've never seen any scientific evidence in all this time that is the case, and since we see PRObiotics swaying blue, it strains belief that antibiotics sway blue too. But I don't want anyone who NEEDS antibiotics, postponing them because of their sway.

What happens (and I think I wrote this on the previous page, but in case I forgot or you missed it) is that you will gear up to ovulate, and then your body decides not to (in this case because you're ill, but there are other reasons it happens as well) So you'll have a nearly or even fully positive OPK, AND symptoms of ovulation, but then you don't ovulate. Since hormones make the OPK get darker, and cause the symptoms of ovulation, these things can happen even when the egg is not released. So in these cases, the symptoms will go away, and the monitor will either just stay at "high" fertility for many days or even go back to "low" again. But then in a few days or a week or even two/three weeks, you will surge again, have more symptoms, and possibly release the egg at that point. We have even had people with these false surges and then ovulation does not occur later THREE times in a month, not just two. So just keep in mind that even if you're not ovulating now, you can still ovulate and conceive later, and if you don't want to try this month you'd want to use protection to avoid conception with a later O.

[ruby_blue]

Thanks for your reply. This kind of reminded me of my next question, to do with the dreaded C word (no not Christmas!) but Covid… Should I get a booster jab or might it messed things up further? I haven’t been too fussed about getting one and DH isn’t keen either. We are both double jabbed so not sure if it’s worth it. It’s not like either of us are using public transport much or are mixing at the moment.

That makes total sense about the antibiotics. I think what I’ve got it’s just a really nasty cough / congestion. It’s definitely worse in the morning, but during the day I have started to feel better and less tired. I’m wondering whether it’s worth continuing to track ovulation, or if I might use up all my sticks by doing so! I might just go to using protection again, like you suggest, and see if I can notice any other signs of it coming… I just really want it to happen now, even if I’m not going for it, as it’s freaking me out that after months and months of being so regular, things have suddenly gone awry (Sod’s law!) x

[atomic sagebrush]

I cannot answer that question. People are clearly getting ill from Covid when pregnant, and yet at the same time I feel like we are not being told the full truth about the safety of the vaccines (and much to my great surprise, instead of getting clarity on this over time as I expected to, I honestly feel we are getting even less reliable information, whilst some pretty reasonable concerns people have are being handwaved away or lumped into an "antivaxxer" umbrella where most questions very much do not belong) At this stage I cannot say in good conscience either direction how I feel about it all, and I have to leave the decision in your hands.

Oh yes some bugs are like that, you feel quite congested in the morning and better over the course of the day. Yes it's entirely possible to use up your sticks on testing for no good reason, but at the same time it IS nice to be able to know what's going on, isn't it? Sorry that's a pretty unhelpful answer, but I'd do whatever seems like it would bring you the most peace of mind.

[ruby_blue]

I know, I really feel that I’m not getting the full picture. But you’re right, asking questions seems to be problematic these days! DH isn’t keen on getting it any time soon, and I’m worried that this month has been badly impacted enough without adding more into the mix.

I felt terrible when I woke up this morning, although I do start feeling better as the day goes on. I took another OPK. Another bloody flashing smiley! Then took another Covid test, still negative. I’ve never been so tested (in everrrry sense)in my life ha ha…*sigh*

Feeling concerned that this is a really nasty illness, which might throw me off for trying next month as well. I’ll keep you in the loop with how I’m doing. I think I’d rather try when I’m feeling healthy and strong. X

[atomic sagebrush]

Yep, and since I have the responsibility to try to advise you guys as best I can, I just don't feel good about that because there's just too much that isn't making sense to me, so I have to toss the choice back onto you guys.

Try not to be concerned in the long term - let's just play it by ear and see how it goes. It may be you're feeling great within a few days and this will all be a distant memory next month! FXFXFX!

[ruby_blue]

Atomic, I hope you’re doing okay and saw my post on your other thread :)

I thought I just update you that this morning I finally got two positive OPKs: Solid smiley and a clear positive on the second one as well. As I’m still a bit of a cough-y mess, I think I’m going to have to skip this month even though it kills me to not try! I think above and beyond all swaying, I’d be scared to conceive when I feel so ill as I’m not sure it would be a good outcome…

It seems that illness certainly pushed back ovulation for me this month, but not by too much (I’m on CD 23). Trying to plan for January now, if you think that there’s enough time between now and then to recover and go in for a good blue sway? I have been debating whether to wait it out until February just to ensure I’m fully better? X

[atomic sagebrush]

I did, thanks so much, it means the world to me.

Absolutely! It makes sense to me to just go ahead and skip the month. I would def. use protection after this as it is possible you could have a false negative, then go on to ovulate later on. I know it's tough to believe but it happens especially in circumstances like these.

Provided you do start feeling better within the next couple weeks I think there's nothing holding you back from January. I hope hubby is also able to cut back on the cycling and drinking as well during this time. Let's look at this as an opportunity maybe God/the universe was providing us to have the best sway possible!!!

I hope you're over this soon!

[ruby_blue]

Hey atomic, how are you doing? If you happen to read this tomorrow then Merry Christmas! I hope you and your family have a lovely time :)

I’m feeling a little fed up today because, as I type, DH is in a very hot bath which he insists on doing to ‘relax’. He’s also still been vaping for the same reason. He’s not on board with the whole sway thing, or even really with having another child, so he’s not listening to my directions… Annoying.

I guess I’m wondering how much you think these things sway and if there’s anything I could adjust in terms of his pills or diet (because those things are more within my control?). Also, because men are more likely to take hot baths in winter months does this mean that it’s harder to sway blue when it’s cold? Or does the heat in spring or summer also make it harder to sway blue? I’m starting to wonder about everything, sorry! I think the loooong wait has got me trying to control everything.

As for me, I still have this nasty cough and not feeling completely on form, but trying to keep up with the eating. Nearly 4 months on the HE diet now! Trying to stay positive for the new year. Happy Christmas X

Ps - update: he claims he’ll quit vaping at the end of this year. I’m now wondering whether going for it in January is going to be too early? If he sticks to it of course!

[atomic sagebrush]

Thank you so much!! I did take yesterday off and we had a really nice time, thanks! Hope yours was great too!

Many, many of us have unsupportive husbands who really do not even want another child. We have found over time that most of what matters is what WE do. We have to carry a pregnancy, nurse (at least in nature), women tend to raise the children while men (again, historically) don't have to do that - so our environment is by far and away more important than what the men bring to the table.

If I had anything up my sleeve that could sway more blue for you I would already be having you do those things.

I don't have the data to compare the difference between things like hot baths vs. summertime weather. We just don't have any hard evidence to enable me to compare the two across the boards like you're thinking of it.

I would simply focus on what you CAN control - which is your end of the equation - and let DH do what he's gonna do. We have found that the more you pressure them to do this or do that, the more rebellious they get, even to the point where they're going behind your back or worse, actively fighting with you over it (which for a blue swayer, can be defeating and stressful in the kind of "I have no control over this" way that is bad for blue sways). Worst of all, some men end up actually getting so fed up they refuse to TTC after all. So I would focus your energies on controlling the things that will pay dividends - the stuff YOU can do personally.

If he's willing to try in January, try in January. One of the things that has been predictive of husbands who refuse to try, is making them skip months. They get in a "we're TTC" mindset and when you start skipping months for anything other than complete act of God (like your illness) they start feeling like it's really not very important to you and all too often have ended up refusing to try when the woman feels like the time is right.

[ruby_blue]

Okay thank you, that’s super helpful and reassuring.

I feel like he is the most rebellious he’s ever been at the moment! He has that personality type unfortunately, that the more he’s told to do something the less likely he is to do it… And so recently I’ve been trying to stop him drinking as much beer or vaping or cycling and he just tells me he’s going to do exactly as he wishes - like a wilful child (massive eye roll). You can imagine the arguments in our house! And yes, I was thinking that it leads me to a kind of hopeless stress which is not very good for me.

I suppose I was just thinking of delaying because if he does quit at the end of December, and stays a non-smoker then the longer the better I guess? I read somewhere on here (and now can’t find where) that 3 months plus is optimal time to quit. But as I’m swiftly learning there is really no such thing as a perfect month. This is the girl mum in me isn’t it, putting it off enough indefinitely!!

Glad that you had a lovely Christmas, you deserve a good break! Xx
Ps that email address for payment on the other thread, is it a PayPal account? X

[atomic sagebrush]

I would just not argue with him any more. It doesn't help (because that rebellious personality type, or as I like to call them, men, does not respond well to that kind of approach) and actively hurts sways - for pink swayers, the wives get all control freakish and try to outwit their husbands, and blue swayers are more prone to just feeling like they can never win and that nothing they do can possibly make a difference. He's gonna do what he's gonna do.

Right, but keep in mind that every time you delay, swaying gets bigger in your mind till it starts taking over your every waking thought (for many blue swayers, this is overwhelming and causes them to shut down and feel like they can't get swaying "right" and their sway is doomed to fail, which is exactly the opposite of the mindset we want you to have for TTC a boy) and then what happens if he DOESN'T quit? You're back at square one, only now you're feeling like this is impossible, you can't succeed if every duck isn't in a row, so why even bother, it's in the hands of fate, etc etc etc.

Yes that is EXACTLY what I see with blue swayers - putting it off and off and then quite a lot of the time, blue swayers put it off so long they end up having an oopsie in a month they weren't ready and they'd skipped over all those other months for really no real reason. My gut instinct is that barring another complete Act of God like we had this month, be ready to roll next month.

Yes that's our PayPal account!! So you'd have to use that in PayPal. I don't have any other way to donate set up, we just use PayPal. Thanks for asking!

[ruby_blue]

Hey Atomic, so things have been really strange around here and I’m wondering if I can ask for advice.

I’m going to completely rewrite this post now, because it was previously a ramble about me thinking I’d started my period. In actual fact, I’ve had symptoms of thrush, which unfortunately I’m prone to, for a few days. On Wednesday night I used a pessary to treat it. I didn’t see any evidence of the pessary until this morning, when I woke up with lots of bright red blood around me.

I thought it was an early period, but an unusual one because I usually get some sign of it coming first. And then after a few hours I passed what initially I thought was a blood clot but on closer inspection appeared to be the Pessary, covered in blood! Sorry, really gross I know.

I was really freaked out for a while. I’ve used them before and never had something like this happen so not quite sure what was going on, but I guess my body just thought it was something else and then expelled it? Thought I should mention it and ask whether you still think I’m okay for January…

And happy new year! Xx

[atomic sagebrush]

My suspicion is that you actually ovulated sooner than you thought (meaning, it wasn't as delayed as we thought) the later positive OPK was a false positive, and now your period is coming. Thrush outbreaks prior to period arriving are SUPER common and that fits in with the timeline. And even if you normally get symptoms prior to period arriving, there are always off months when you don't.

Can you think back 10-14 days? Is it at all possible that ovulation happened at that point in time?

It is also possible that the pessary caused some irritation which lead to bleeding, but the way you're describing this is pretty heavy flow - seems like a period to me.

Pessaries can come out on their own, and I think the bleeding just made it easier for the pessary to come out. The bleeding did not happen because your body was trying to get rid of the pessary, though - just want to be clear on that. Either the pessary might have caused irritation that led to bleeding (and 99 times out of 100 that type of bleeding is very light and short lived, and not what you're describing) or the pessary was "washed out" by the flow.

[ruby_blue]

Hey, thanks for your reply. So initially I thought that, and two weeks ago was, weirdly, the time that I was supposed to ovulate. It’s when I kept writing loads of messages asking what to do and flip-flopping! But it’s definitely not the start of a period.

I don’t have any other signs and the bleeding has just completely vanished now. I guess I’ll just have to wait and see what happens. It feels like my body is choosing the most inconvenient time to rebel…. Like it’s taking tips from my man…. ! Who is currently smoking up a storm as he’s going to ‘quit’ tomorrow. *siiigh*

Happy new year dear Atomic! Xx

[atomic sagebrush]

Yes that's what I remembered, and then reading this post I figured that must be what happened.

I will say that sometimes we do see a little blood flow a day or two or three before the period arrives, but it may be simply coming from the cervix and irritation from the pessary. Keep me posted!!!

[ruby_blue]

Seems like I tell a lie… After a day of nothing, I’ve started to bleed again tonight. But it’s very stop start. And DH and I attempted some intimate time which, well let’s just say I didn’t really go to plan! Could I have ovulated twice?

I started testing from CD 14 and they were all negative up until CD23. On that day, I took two ovulation tests, one clear blue and one Premom, and both were clearly positive or peak. And yet here I am on CD 32 with what seems like it may be a period.. (I’ve also stiiiillll got my cough. Ugh! Falling apart).

It’s really annoying not being able to plan :( And I am aware that this type of mindset, feeling overwhelmed, it’s not really going to help with the sway. I wish I knew what was going on!

Anyway sorry for griping, HNY :) x

Update: I seem to be treating this thread as my personal diary, sorry! Just thought I would update that after last night, the bleeding has completely stopped again and there’s been nothing today. I don’t think it was a period, just something very weird going on… I normally have an achy feeling in my lower abdomen on my period and I didn’t have any of that. When I was intimate with DH, he said he could feel that my cervix was low and hard.
It felt v uncomfortable for me. But like I said, it’s now completely gone. Hopefully I’ll get my period in the next couple of days. Such a weird day honestly… maybe 2021’s last sucker punch my way!! X

[atomic sagebrush]

It's not a lie, it's just confusing when periods arrive in these patterns. But a day or two of bleeding/spotting, then nothing, then full on AF is a very common pattern we see quite a bit. It is also possible to have, just as you have had, off and on periods over the span of a few days. I actually personally have this pattern quite a bit which is why I'm so familiar with it. It is most likely that your body is just a bit weird and having an unusual period this time through. It is also possible, (though I think it's unlikely) that you didn't ovulate and are simply having a breakthrough bleed where your estrogen drops and the lining comes off. The reason I do not believe this is happening is that generally speaking, breakthrough bleeds tend to happen NOT when we expect our period to come. Since they're not caused by ovulation, they are more random, and the vast majority of the time when there is bleeding at the point in time we expect a period, it means you ovulated, even when your period is unusual and not the norm. The good news is that no matter what whether it's period or breakthrough bleeding, it acts as a reset on the cycle and you will start over again as if it was a normal cycle. (Now, you can have another weird cycle, or it may be normal. My point is, it's a do-over, a new cycle is starting no matter if the next cycle is normal or still a bit off, and any weirdness this past month does not carry into the next month, generally speaking.)

Another distant possibility is that you somehow conceived and this is early pregnancy bleeding so you may want to take a pregnancy test but I don't think you had any attempts at the right time, correct??? Or did you?

You cannot ovulate twice more than 24 hours apart (and usually it's more like 8-12 hours.) This is because when the egg is released, the hole the egg comes out of makes hormones that stop any more eggs from being released within a very narrow time frame (it takes a bit of time for the hormones to be made, but not that long). So there is no way you released one egg, then a couple days later another one. It just doesn't work like that - the first egg would have stopped any more from being released after just a few hours.

And, this type of bleeding cannot be caused by double ovulation anyway. I assume you were thinking that the first egg might have been ovulated, caused a period, and now the second egg is causing another period??? That just cannot be. The way the menstrual cycle works is that your progesterone, and later on and to a lesser extent, your estrogen levels, rise in the second half of the cycle. If you get pregnant, the egg sends a signal to your body to keep those levels high, and you do not get your period. If you aren't pregnant, when the body does not receive that signal, hormone levels will drop and then your lining will start to come off. There is NO setting where one egg makes a period and then another egg makes some other period. Either the hormones stay high (pregnant) or they drop (not pregnant). The lining stays, or it comes off.

The most likely thing that is happening is that your lining is just coming off in fits and starts and taking its time. It happens sometimes.

Now, as for your positive OPK on CD 23, this is actually something that happens quite a lot. For whatever reason you missed your first peak (and I would strongly suggest starting to test sooner than CD 14! you could have easily, easily missed the peak if you didn't start testing till then! But it is ALSO possible that you just never got a positive in your urine tests, even tho the levels in your blood were enough to trigger ovulation) and caught a false positive at the time of the secondary estrogen surge. The secondary estrogen surge happens about a week after ovulation, and it is very common to have ovulation-type symptoms and a false positive on OPK at the same time. But the egg was already released. I know this sounds unlikely - a false negative and a false positive in the same month??? - but truly, it happens all the time to people and so just be aware that it's possible.

[ruby_blue]

Hi, thank you again for such a detailed response. There’s been no bleeding since Friday at all, also no CM to speak of. I actually read your message late last night and then panicked about the possibility of being pregnant.

I took a test this morning and it was clearly negative. Which was actually a relief as I’d like to feel a little bit more in control and know what’s going on (for once)! So I guess I’ll just wait for this period to show up… I wish I could somehow look inside my body to see what exactly is going on. I will let you know as soon as there is any movement or certainty x

[ruby_blue]

Hello, just a little update from me: I’m on CD37 now and still no proper sign of a period - just more spotting. As in, only when I go to the toilet and wipe but nothing at other times. And 70% of the time there’s nothing at all even when I go to the toilet!

I’ve started to wonder if this could be low progesterone. Obviously I’ve had a couple of early miscarriages… or maybe I just ovulated late this cycle. It’s annoying as my cycles really regulated for a while!

Do you think there’s anything I need to do? I’m still hoping for this blue sway and trying not to stress - as I know that does not sway blue! - but it’s tricky when everything is so hard to predict all of a sudden x

[GoofyGurl]

Hi ruby! This exact thing happened to me last year. I ended up having an anovulatory cycle. The weirdest part was that about a week or so after the strange spotting I had (which was exactly as how you've described yours and it didn't end up being a normal bleed like my period) I ended up ovulating! I only knew to test because I had noticed EWCM out of the blue! Hope this helps, but just thought I'd share my experience. In my case, I had a normal cycle afterwards. The cycle I didn't ovulate I'll admit I was quite stressed as DH was away from home longer than expected.

[ruby_blue]

Hey, thank you for seeing this and replying! So when you had your anovulatory cycle, do you mind me asking how many days your whole was? And did you ovulate before the spotting as well?

I’m wondering whether stress has brought this on. I really don’t know what to do, it’s really getting me down. I was all geared up to try this month but now it seems like it might not work or be a good idea. It’s like my body is trying to have a period then deciding not to.

A flurry of pregnancy announcements among friends really hasn’t helped my mood either :( x

[GoofyGurl]

The cycle just before the random spotting, I remember using OPKs at the time I was expecting to O and they were SO finicky that month! I kind of felt my body was trying to ovulate but I don't think it did during that time. I can't recall how long my cycle was as I had given up and thought I'd wait for my period before tracking again. In my case I'm sure it was stress and it sorted itself out the following cycle. Hope that helps and good luck!

[ruby_blue]

Thanks, it’s so ironic isn’t it that we have to try not to stress but the whole thing just causes so much stress! Maybe that’s just me :s. Are you going to be trying again this month? Hope it goes well if so :)

Ps I actually think my period might be starting now, either that or I’m going mad as I’ve spent most of the morning in tears…!

[atomic sagebrush]

Miscarriages aren't caused by low progesterone. Miscarriages CAUSE low progesterone, because that's the way your body ends pregnancies, by dialing hormones back to bring it to an end. A normal pregnancy will signal your body to make all the progesterone it needs. Doctors did not understand this in the past and so we still have lots of stuff online going on about "low progesterone" but as long as you are having cycles where your LP is longer than 7-8 days you are not experiencing low progesterone.

It's sounding more and more to me that you didn't ovulate after all due to your illness and this is probably just your body sloughing off the lining as breakthrough bleeding. Breakthrough bleeding can be weird like you're describing and sometimes takes a little bit to come off.

[atomic sagebrush]

Thanks, it’s so ironic isn’t it that we have to try not to stress but the whole thing just causes so much stress! Maybe that’s just me :s. Are you going to be trying again this month? Hope it goes well if so :)

Ps I actually think my period might be starting now, either that or I’m going mad as I’ve spent most of the morning in tears…!

Please don't try not to stress. I bring up stuff about stress in terms of SWAYING because I don't like to see pink swayers who get obsessed and blue swayers who feel like swaying is too complicated and they should just give up. This was never supposed to translate into any other arena of life and it was never my intent for people to sit around trying to control their reactions to things like you're describing.

Please just liive your life, have the normal and natural human reactions to events that you have automatically, and don't stress about stress.

[atomic sagebrush]

Hey, thank you for seeing this and replying! So when you had your anovulatory cycle, do you mind me asking how many days your whole was? And did you ovulate before the spotting as well?

I’m wondering whether stress has brought this on. I really don’t know what to do, it’s really getting me down. I was all geared up to try this month but now it seems like it might not work or be a good idea. It’s like my body is trying to have a period then deciding not to.

A flurry of pregnancy announcements among friends really hasn’t helped my mood either :( x

It was not stress, it was clearly illness. Don't overthink this!!!

Also, breakthrough bleeds are all very different from one another so unfortunately this rarely translates from person to person.

[ruby_blue]

Hiya, thanks Atomic. Yesterday I started what seems like a much more 'normal' period to me - belly ache, feeling emotional, and more consistent bleeding. So I have no idea what the few days of stop-start bleeding was about...!

It's made it harder to plan ahead... and you know what a rebellious man I'm working it! ;) so some planning is needed or DH will be off cycling somewhere, whilst drinking beer and smoking haha

In October and November, I O'd on CD20, then December it looks like it was CD24, or potentially not at all. If I'm well, do you think I could go back to O on CD20 again this month? (this is one of those crystal maze type questions that must be so annoying, sorry!). Also, I'm thinking of last big push on the diet front. Shall I really stuff my face / try to enlarge snacks? Sometimes I just grab a few almonds as a snack.. unfortunately I think the length of time I've been on the HE diet has made me a bit weary of the foods, but I'm not a very imaginative eater or cook! x

[atomic sagebrush]

You can ovulate at any point after CD 12. Past cycles do not predict what future cycles come, so you can absolutely O back to CD 20 again or at any point really.

You don't need to stuff your face, just try to eat consistently. As long as you're eating something, even if it's just a few almonds, that still will raise your blood sugar. You don't need to be stuffed and gain massive amounts of weight on HE Diet, we just want you to be eating regular meals.

Good luck and blue dust headed your way!

[ruby_blue]

Ok thanks Atomic. I’ll keep testing and eating! I was also wondering, I know that oats are good for blue. Does it matter if they’re cooked or not? As I always have cold oats in the morning which have been soaked overnight and then just slightly warmed up in the microwave. I’m not a massive fan of porridge but I could make this instead if it would be better.

Also, is it important to eat first thing and last thing in the day? I suppose because I’ve been eating more during the day, I find it hard to eat last thing at night. And then when I wake up in the morning I haven’t really been hungry for breakfast until around 9:30 am. Should I be trying to eat more consistently in the day?
Many thanks :) x

[atomic sagebrush]

Cooked or uncooked they're both great! However you prefer!

As long as you're feeling full most of the time, that's what we're going for. If you can't eat both at night and in the morning, eating in the morning is probably best but if you prefer the nighttime snack that's ok too. You're just trying to cut down the amount of time you spend with no food coming in. It's ok to make any movement in a blue-friendly direction even if you don't ever make it to the upper levels of calorie intake some of us eat as a habit.

[ruby_blue]

Heyyy Atomic. Hope all is well. I think later this week or next week will be my time to try, hopefully! Let’s hope the CB tests are a little clearer this month… One question which I had was around conceive plus. I’ve got a tube of it and plan to use it around the time I’m trying to sway, but under the right conditions I don’t really need to use it as a lubricant.

In your experience, does it swear blue or is it better to stay au naturel as it were?!

Also just want to check on BD pattern. When I see flashing smilies, shall I do every other day. And then first solid, that evening and then twice the next day if possible (I highly doubt DH can do twice in one day, so maybe just once in the evening?!).

Trying to stay calm and also to stay well, as the colds are out in force again! Xx

[ruby_blue]

Bump!
ps. I seem to have got another stuffy nose, riiiight before ov :( not really a cold (yet), maybe allergy or something - shall I keep on regardless? xx

[ruby_blue]

Hey Goofygurl, how are you getting on? I saw on another post you had a good attempt! I have another cold :( but attempting regardless…. Just wish I could breathe through my nose. !

[GoofyGurl]

Hi ruby, my period is due in a few days and decided I'm not testing until it's late! I actually had congestion again this cycle too but ovulated on time so just went with it!

[ruby_blue]

Totally with you on the not testing. I’m actually really upset as this cycle has TOTALLY messed up :( I seem to have developed another sinus infection. It’s really bad today and, Sod’s law, after low fertility for days, I got a peak today. From low to peak - so weird.

I also just went to pick up antibiotics as it’s so bad I can’t breathe through my nose. Wondering how a blue sway is ever going to work when I am so evidently unhealthy!!!. But even for me, this has been such a bad run of illness. Shall I keep going with attempts do you think? Guess I have to. Not sure how antibiotics will factor in. Feeling very sad..

Let me know how you get on, did you feel any different this tww?

[GoofyGurl]

Oh I had major sinus issues this cycle too. It was my second cycle being sick! The cycle prior it happened early in my cycle and this cycle it happened around my positive OPK, so similar to you. I ended up going for it since ovulation wasn't delayed or anything. I guess this is just what happens TTC in winter months!

[GoofyGurl]

Also not feeling any different at all... trying really hard not to read into it but whatever happens, I'd rather just see my period than a negative test!

[ruby_blue]

Same here, I’m actually thinking it would be best for me not to fall pregnant this cycle as I feel so bad. I’ve started taking antibiotics and am wondering how they sway (if at all). I guess if probiotics sway blue, then these aren’t really going to help!

Funnily enough I did just read an article about how women are more prone to illness during ovulation. Maybe this is what’s happening! Plus with all these nasty bugs around…

Did you take anything for your sinuses? Hope you’re better now x

[GoofyGurl]

I didn't take anything, just tried to drink lots of tea, slept with a cool mist humidifier and definitely ate more spicy food that week! My cold resulted in a lot of phlegm and mucus buildup so I really was just trying to get it out as my nose had not been runny at all. I did take mucinex during that week as well. Felt great as soon as my fertile window closed (of course!).

[GoofyGurl]

I know it's tough but do your best to stay upbeat! A lot is out of our control so the least we can do is work on the parts that are. Sending you lots of positive and BLUE vibes!

[atomic sagebrush]

Oh gosh this has been a crazy week! Thanks for your patience.

I think (and a couple studies have shown this as well) that natural EWCM is better than the lubes. It's fine if you need them, but if you have natural CM I'd just stick with that. I myself and many many other of our swayers have gotten boys never using any of those products!

:agree: I love seeing people do every other day when there's a flashy then hitting it daily with solid. It's also a good way to get another attempt in for those whose husbands can't go every day!

[ruby_blue]

Hey, thanks for your reply. I’m not sure if you’ve read all my other mental messages, but things have gone out of plan again and I could really do with some advice! I started to feel ill a couple of days ago, there have been some nasty colds around here. DH and I last BD on Tuesday (CD14).

And then yesterday morning (CD17) I woke up feeling very ill, with what I believed to be another sinus infection. I also took an OPK test and a CBT test. Both of them showed peak. This is early for me - peak is usually CD 19 and last month (when ill) was CD23.

In a panic, and without thinking, I instigated another BD with DH that morning. I then started to feel worse and worse over the course of the day and spoke to my doctor on the phone. I told him I had another sinus infection and, without seeing me, got prescribed antibiotics. I dashed to pick these up and started taking them, hoping that they would make me feel better. But the truth is that they haven’t, and I’m not even sure I should be taking them. It could be just a very bad virus. I had planned to BD that evening too but felt too exhausted.

In all honesty, I wish I hadn’t had that attempt yesterday I just skipped this month altogether. My CM has completely dried up, not that there was much to start with. OPK line fainter today (CD18).

I don’t know what to do in terms of whether to keep going with attempts or whether to keep going with antibiotics. Really hoping you see this and can please reply. Sorry to be so difficult. I can’t believe another month has been messed up by illness :(

I am wondering whether it could’ve been a false positive because I didn’t have any flashing :-) is beforehand, I just went straight to peak. I also didn’t have much CM and I’m just generally very rundown.

Thanks xx

[atomic sagebrush]

Yes, you must continue antibiotics because you've started them. At this point, even if it IS a virus (which I think is possible) you don't want to stop them because you've knocked back some of the microbes in your body. Stopping them now would mean that any little buggie that is stronger against the antibiotics will now live to fight another day, and this is how you get antibiotic resistant bacteria running amok. Just finish the run of them.

If you can stand it I'd carry on with attempts. We need to operate under the assumption that it wasn't false positive, and in that case it's important to keep going with attempts otherwise you may end up with the one attempt.

It is not unusual to go straight to peak with no flashing and still ovulate. That doesn't mean it was a false one. Go for it!

[ruby_blue]

Hey Atomic, I’m really losing track of what is going on with me… today it’s cycle day 21. 5 days after the positive OPK (which I thought may have been a false positive - and hard to tell by temps as mine was elevated due to this cold). And this morning when I go to the loo: bright red blood!

Yesterday I felt incredibly emotional all day, which is usually a sign of my period coming. My temp yesterday was also very low. And now this. Could it be a period? Given my cycles are usually around 34 days long I think it’s unlikely..

Needless today, very fed up. Maybe I have a hormone malfunction or something :s

[atomic sagebrush]

So there are two possibilities. One is that you ovulated sooner than you thought, and because it was early you hadn't started doing OPK yet and missed it, then the positive OPK was from the secondary estrogen surge (and since it was such a weird one, this makes sense). Or, the other possibility is that you are having an anovulatory cycle, you didn't ovulate and you're having a breakthrough bleed. This could also be as it's not unusual to have an anovulatory cycle following a goofy cycle.

It's not a hormone malfunction. There's no such thing as a hormone malfunction (unless you have PCOS, but that wouldn't manifest like this, and even that is likely not a "malfunction" but is simply something we don't yet understand) Sure, we have off cycles now and then but it's your body reacting to stressors such as being ill, having losses fairly recently, and so on. It does this as a safety mechanism to try to prevent you from conceiving during times when your body feels you are not in a good place to get and stay pregnant. And as soon as it's able to, it will be trying to get things back to normal again.

If you think it would be reassuring you do have the option of going in for testing to see what's up, but the testing is generally uninformative and they rarely have any treatment anyway other than "wait and see" so I'd likely just wait personally, but that's your call to make.

[ruby_blue]

Thank you, reading this made me hate my body a little bit less… I guess it is trying to recover. Looking at my charts, and remembering symptoms, I really can’t see where I could’ve ovulated earlier but I guess it’s a possibility. Since this morning’s bleeding, there has been absolutely no more at all.

My doctor was meant to be calling me back but hasn’t yet.. But actually I was thinking along the same lines as you, for all their observations and stuff, there’s not much they can do to help. I just try to stay as relaxed as possible and hope that this cycle sorts it self out. I hope it does soon because feels like I’ve been on HE diet forever now (I’m a blob!) plus pills.. £££… but it’s all I want to happen so, FX! I’ll let you know what happens next & thanks for being here for me as ever xxx

[atomic sagebrush]

So how much weight have you gained overall??

Would you say this is manifesting itself much like last month did?? I recall you had some mysterious bleeding and then didn't get your true period for a while after?

[ruby_blue]

Heyyy Atomic just coming back to this thread now.. I really wanted to sway this month but have come down with *another* cold type thing (courtesy of my toddler). So far symptoms: sore throat, now phlegmy cough, feeling tired. I’ve stopped exercising and started going to bed early. Also trying to drink a lot and avoid talking. Taking cough syrup because I need it to sleep!

I’m on CD13 and this started around CD10/11. It hasn’t risen to my sinuses (yet!!!) so hopefully it won’t.

I usually O CD16-18. Try or wait it out?! The waiting is driving me CRAZY and I’m kind of despairing at the constant rounds of illnesses…

If I do try, what short term behaviours may help? Is dropping all exercise ok?

Thanks a million x

[atomic sagebrush]

Oh no I'm so sorry to hear that - I hope you feel better soon!

What kind of cough syrup?

I would just stop exercising for now. That is ok because it takes 4-6 weeks or even more of COMPLETE inactivity to lose muscle.

I can't say whether to try or wait it out. You have to follow your own gut. If you'll live 1000 lifetimes of regret if you try and get an opposite, better to wait, but at the same time keep in mind that a) for all you know this is a fine month for you to get a boy and b) next month may be worse and so you end up trying in a month you had even lower chances. This happens fairly regularly, because people do end up feeling very frustrated, and eventually will just say "eh screw it" and try anyway. In many cases, I can (as an impartial third party) recall that they had passed up better months only to end up trying in a month that was very much less than ideal.

Just stay the course. Nothing we do at the last minute (with the possible exception of guaifenesin, and of course being sure your husband avoids long abstains and many releases back to back before the fertile window opens) really helps.

The good news is that we're almost to spring in the N. Hemi so if the weather is playing a part with these colds circulating you may be nearly out of it now!

[ruby_blue]

Thank you! It’s laryngitis / super sore throat. Feeling a little better today but a bit up and down tbh & it hurts when I swallow :( I’ve been using robotussin! And have actually really needed it!

Does the whole being sick sways pink thing apply to the month that you try, or how you are when you’re actually in the fertile window?

Also, if O is delayed due to illness - does that sway pink? So should I go for it if I O on, say, CD23, or is that not a good idea?

Totally get what you mean about the perfect month thing. This has been an exceptional run of illnesses, my family can’t believe how many times I’ve been sick over the past couple of months! It’s very annoying… but I also think if I’m sick, I may not conceive anyway.

Would be interested to hear your thoughts on timing though and delayed O. Also I’ve been drinking more hot water with lemon & ginger than tea… should I up the tea again? Currently on around one cup a day!

Thanks a million xx

[atomic sagebrush]

The Robitussin with just guaifenesin tho right?? some of them have more.

We don't know how much and when being sick sways. It's likely that every illness is different and every month YOU are different (so sometimes you may be shaking something off and other times it has more effect.)

I would not worry about delayed O, being sick, etc. and decide on the basis of your family's needs first and foremost. If you feel you need to try this month, then do. If your gut tells you to skip it, then do that. I just can't know based on any signs or portents whether anyone should try or not.

I'd continue drinking whatever drink is appealing to you at the mo. A couple days without tea is not a dealbreaker and lemon/ginger is appealing when sick!

Feel better soon!

[ruby_blue]

Yes that’s right. Unfortunately my gut is telling me to skip this month. I just feel worse and worse - I can’t believe this has happened for 3 months running now!

QQ: I was on CD16 yesterday and we BD. This was the first day Clear Blue showed ‘high fertility’. And this was before last night, where I barely slept due to illness, hence my decision today to skip.

Today is CD17, still ‘high fertility’ but I feel so rough I reckon O will be delayed. But I’m anxious about inadvertently doing a cut off.

Do you think… no BD today, test again tomorrow and if it’s high again, use protection, but if it’s peak, go for it with BD or else I’ll have a cut off?

Hope this makes sense. Beyond fed up with my stupid illness-prone body right now, but don’t want to have done all this work to attempt in a month where I can’t stop coughing and feel rough! X

[atomic sagebrush]

Well, cutoffs don't work anyway, the issue would be that you only had one attempt.

But a peak now would still mean it had been 3 or more days since the last attempt which is pretty low chance of conception. If it comes on CD 18 then it would be more like 4 days. I think that's an ok strategy but the truth is the odds are low unless the peak comes TODAY.

[ruby_blue]

Ok thank you. I’m feeling so down about everything right now and defeated. I think I’ll O in a few days but not going to even try as my body’s a mess. I’ve had to start taking meds just so I can swallow food (that’s how bad my throat is). It could all be sinus-related and, as you know, I have been offered surgery to correct that (septoplasty) but put it off as I’m pretty sure the whole operation would and recovery etc wouldn’t sway blue at all. It would be under general anaesthetic, then I’d be laid up for a few weeks & probably on pain meds. Part of me would like to have it done but another part is saying it’s best to wait until after I’ve hopefully had a baby…

Hopefully next month then, or do you recommend waiting two months to try to put this spate of illnesses well behind me? I just want to feel confident and good in my sway. I can’t believe I’ve fallen sick before every ovulation in the past couple of months :( it’s crazy unlucky

[atomic sagebrush]

I would just wait till next month. Two seems very excessive. I would actually have had you try but you are sounding as if you're quite ill.

This does not sound like something caused by recurrent sinus infections and instead another virus. Keep in mind that there were a lot of viruses waiting in the wings while we were all locked down and they're having a heyday right now. I would not rush into a surgery assuming that something that was viral is sinuses (tho of course you know your own body, and some people do have such severe sinus issues they do have surgery, my dad ended up having it but that was after years and years of suffering)

I hope you're feeling better very soon and that spring coming chases all these bugs away!

[ruby_blue]

Ahh I just don’t know… I’m in two minds about it. My throat was in tatters last night, so painful to swallow and red raw. I took Night Nurse to sleep (a really heavy duty med which knocks you out!). Today I feel woozy (possibly from the NN) but throat not quite as bad. I haven’t exercised in well over a week (or left the house much at all). Because I’ve been useless at doing anything, DH has had to pick up the slack and is now exhausted. The stress of it all led him towards a hot bath on Friday, most annoying! And he’s just generally shattered.

I’ve also been having lots of throat sweets and not eating proper meals. I guess I just don’t feel in the healthy and strong mindset and body which I wanted to be in right before my attempts. But the thought of waiting without guarantees is hard! Like you say, next month could throw a curveball (but surely not ANOTHER nasty bug?!?!)

Shall I keep testing and make an impulsive decision based on how I feel on the day, or cut my losses and wait it out? Usually when I’m sick, O is delayed. I guess that’s not a good fertility sign / would sway pink.

Also, I know the advice is to wait a cycle after D&C.. after I had that op, I had a period a few days after (at the beginning of this month) so does that count as waiting a cycle do you think? Thanks xx

[ruby_blue]

Update: after a pretty bad nights sleep, and DH was shattered too, I tested this morning (cd19) and have a blazing positive opk. So O is not that delayed.

Shall I go for it or wait? Please tell me what to dooooo lol x

[atomic sagebrush]

Oh gosh I'm sorry I didn't get back to you sooner. The truth is, that's a crystal ball question and I truly can't know if it's best for you to proceed or wait. I just can't know, and when I can't know I have to toss the question back onto you, I'm sorry.

Yes that would ~probably~ count as one of the purposes of waiting is to give your uterus a chance to slough off the old lining. But that having been said, we know very little and it may be in some part that waiting a full cycle would help "reset" you hormonally and make you more blue friendly. We just honestly don't know.

[atomic sagebrush]

Update: after a pretty bad nights sleep, and DH was shattered too, I tested this morning (cd19) and have a blazing positive opk. So O is not that delayed.

Shall I go for it or wait? Please tell me what to dooooo lol x

Ugh sorry this came through very late for me.

I don't know and I think that you should use your best judgement about that. I don't want to be responsible for anyone trying when they really don't feel very comfortable about it so it's a choice that I have to leave on you, sorry!

[ruby_blue]

Hey, that's ok! I've decided to wait it out. I don't feel 100% so..., I'm just going to wait and see. Also I'm feeling bad about how much help I've asked you for. I'm going to send you a PM about membership options now xx

[ruby_blue]

Ok I’m freaking out… this morning I felt very sick, took a pg test and got a faint positive line. What on earth? We abstained / use protection over ovulation. It must have happened later than expected after like a week abstain. I can’t figure it out at all. Unless it’s a false positive, but it’s a fairly clear pink line. This must be a perfect pink sway … I don’t understand it at all. :(

[atomic sagebrush]

Ok can you message me a picture to atomicsagebrush@gmail.com? We are having quite a lot of very faint ghost lines that are not positives and then go away without darkening.

Try to keep in mind that even if this is positive, this isn't necessarily going to be a girl. Sometimes things happen unexpectedly and even with full on pink sways people still get boys! For all we know this may have been the universe's way of helping us out here!