TTC Girl Month 8... this time with Femara

[stellabella]

Long-time reader, first time poster!

I have spoken with Atomic and she has been incredibly gracious to give me her opinion, which I plan on following. I have one toddler son (shettles opposite, but he is my everything), and am trying to conceive for our second and potentially last baby. Praying that I might get that daughter I've dreamt of and longed for for so many years!

It took 4 cycles to conceive my son, although 2 of those Shettles attempts were so far out I don't think I had a chance. To conceive him, we BD daily until 0-1.

To summarize:

We did 4 months of one attempt followed by 3 months of e4d (72 hours) with one additional attempt at pos OPK.

I'm currently in my 8th cycle of TTC (I am almost 34), this time with Femara. My blood work came back mostly normal (low blood sugar and thyroid of 2.5 which is slightly high) and did say I was ovulating, so my doctor says Femara will trigger "super ovulation." Husband's sperm sample came back a normal sperm count and quantity but had some clumps, so she advised him to take Mucinex during my fertile week. I'm on cycle day 10 and the headache side effects are not my friend, but trying to remain positive!

I plan on ttc e4d (72 hours) with one attempt at pos OPK. My goal is to have one attempt at pos OPK (O-1) and no other attempt in O-3, O-2 or O day.

For those of you who took many months trying to get your girl... at what point did you loosen up? Of course everything you read says to ttc every other day to get pregnant, and I think after trying for 6+ months we all start to lose some hope (even if we give ourselves pep talks, which I certainly do!). But even if I get another precious boy, I want to know that I did everything I could so I don't have to wonder "what if" if this is in fact our last baby.

I guess all of this to say, looking for some encouragement or positive Femara stories. Thank you to those who read this!

:DS: 19 Months
praying for :DD: to complete our family

[atomic sagebrush]

Ok the first thing that jumps out to me is this: If you're doing e4d plus one, then your goal should not be "no other attempt on O-3, O-2, O day." What you're describing is one attempt! That's not going to be any better chances THAN one attempt, and at this point you need to drop one attempt and go at least to e4d.

Now, is it ok to try a month using one attempt, your first month on Femara, sure, but I want you to understand that's going to have the same chances as one attempt and is not e4d plus one!

If you aren't wanting one attempt, then rather than go right to EOD (which no one swaying pink should do) please do either e4d in the 72 hour pattern starting after your last dose Femara and rolling on through till well after you think you've ovulated (even if it means going all the way thru til your next cycle begins). OR do that PLUS add in another attempt at positive OPK.

[stellabella]

I am doing e4 day (72), I'm just wishfully hoping that my pos OPK will land on 0-1 and e4d (72) if I know my cycle enough to have timed it right. But I hear you. If we are on month 8, it's time to add in an extra attempt to hopefully get 2 attempts in the most fertile window.

Random: but if my e4d (72) DOES end up falling on pos OPK, should I just have sex again on O day to add in that extra attempt?

Took letrozole/femara CD 3-7 and currently CD12, waiting to get that + OPK! And because I think this medicine is definitely affecting my usual cycle, I agree - I think we should continue to have sex until I'm expecting my next cycle.

I'm on day 8 of headaches due to the side effects, so I am hoping to be on this medicine for 3 months or less.

By month 3 of this medicine, I'll likely resort to e4d (72) leading up to ovulation week and then sex daily the week of ovulation. And will be sure not to miss a day! I just don't want to have headaches like this for 6 months.

The things we do to plan our families. Worth it though - you never know if you don't try.

Thank you for all of your expertise and wisdom!

[atomic sagebrush]

Yes, have sex again if you're doing e4d plus one. Whether you do it twice in one day or the next day, totally up to you, just be sure to add in the attempt if you're going for e4d plus one.

No matter what, please don't have sex daily the week of ovulation. The thing of it is, not only would that potentially sway blue, but it's not even a great chance of conception in many cases. The reason for this is because you can't predict week of O very accurately on letrozole, and so it's entirely possible to start that daily sex too soon. People having daily sex often (very often indeed!) end up getting their hubbies completely burned out and/or depleted before the egg ever shows up, and so their husbands are unwilling/unable to perform when it really counts (O-2, O-1, early on O day) OR are shooting dust and so those attempts that we need to be our best ones, are basically wasted. Instead, I'd do e4d in the 72 hour pattern plus one more attempt at positive OPK and then go to SMEP (Sperm Meets Egg Plan - you can find that here: https://thespermmeetseggplan.com/)

[stellabella]

Thank you for that info. Husband has a high sex drive, so daily performance isn't an issue, but I hear you.

I'm partnering this letrozole with the Clearblue Ovulation Monitor that has my peak day listed as today (CD 13). So if that's correct, that means this attempt would be:

O-3
O-1 (today)
O day (tomorrow)

It feels like a lot of attempt for a girl but otherwise we kind of fall into an every other day pattern... so I guess we go for it?

[atomic sagebrush]

It can still matter though because daily release can lower sperm numbers enough to prohibit conception. Even if he can go easily (and many guys can) every day the sperm count may be reduced to such extent it can reduce your chances of conception.

So when you say the Clearblue has your peak day listed, are you saying that you've gotten a peak reading? Or is this something they're predicting based on previous months (possibly on an app linked to the monitor)? They change these monitors so frequently I just want to be sure we're speaking the same language here.

It can't ever be more than two attempts though. Here's why: If there is anything left from the O-3 attempt, it plus the O-1 will already have fertilized the egg before the O Day shot (two attempts.) If there ISN'T, the O-1 will have a shot, and if for some reason that falls through the O Day will come through in the end. So it's two at most, and in many cases still one attempt even with the 3 BD.

The other option would be to just do the O-3 and O Day, but in that case I strongly suggest EARLY on O Day to be sure the sperm has time to capacitate and make it to the egg.

[stellabella]

That's a really good point and great reminder. Thank you for that!

Clearblue Monitor had my first peak day listed as CD13. It will display a few "high fertility" days leading up to your two "peak days." The two peak days are O-1 and O. It will then list one "high" day after ovulation. So it listed CD13 (yesterday) as Peak 1 and CD14 (today) and Peak 2. I think the first peak day is most important, which we did utilize.

The past 7 cycles I've used the cheapie ovulation sticks from Amazon, and they are about 1 day off from this monitor. But I haven't been getting pregnant with them. However I used them in conjunction with this monitor for this cycle and I think they're pretty much aligned.

I did end up using rephresh at around 3:30PM on O-1 and then we had sex around 11PM that evening (missionary, no orgasm, hips elevated for 20 minutes after). Husband said he noticed more white clumps afterwards than when we've used rephresh in our first few cycle attempts. I looked it up and it said the white clumps were "epithelial cells that get trapped in the gel." After reading more about it, I THINK it's ok... but it's not ideal.

I may have messed things up by using the rephresh. But I just had this gut instinct to try it again in conjunction with the letrozole for at least one attempt.

I don't feel like my O-3 attempt was a "real attempt" considering it's pretty far out, but hopefully even with the rephresh the O-1 attempt will have a shot. I don't feel like I've had as much EWCM this letrozole cycle as I usually have, but that's as to be expected with the medicine. I didn't use any lubricants -

I'm really glad I read your message today and think perhaps this cycle I just play it safe with the O-3 and 0-1 with rephresh. Even though O day would be 72 hours from O-3, I can skip it. This is our 8th month TTC but first with Letrozole, so it's probably best to be conservative. Husband also previously had clumps in his specimen sample and is now on mucinex to help thin that out, so maybe a miracle will happen!

If it doesn't work this cycle, I will ditch the rephesh next cycle. Hopeful it will work out so I can avoid another month of headache side effects. I also was SO much more crampy today (supposed ovulation day) than I've been in the past. But some say it's because of the multiple follicle releases on the medicine?

Thank you for the advice. I was planning on adding another attempt today on O day but I think you've convinced me to hold out.

[stellabella]

Ok now I'm reading your response for the third time and seeing you are calling the 3 attempts really two attempts - so I might throw in another try this evening of O day. It will either be too late and not be an issue or it will catch the egg if 0-3 and 0-1 fell through.

THANK YOU Atomic!

[atomic sagebrush]

Ok, perfect, that's how the Clearblue is supposed to work. When you said "listed" I thought you meant you were using an app and it was predicting your first peak would be that day.

I would have you drop RepHresh moving forward now as it doesn't work anyway and cuts odds of conception. But yeah that was just the epithelial cells. It's off putting though.

Normal to feel drier on the Letrozole, let me know if you need a remedy for comfortable intercourse as I have a method that won't hurt your sway or odds of conception.

Yes that's what I want you to do - O-3, O-1, and then the O Day attempt. This is still just two attempts for the reasons I spelled out in my prev. post.

Everything else is looking great! I would have you continue with the e4d (so 72 hours after the O Day attempt, or thereabouts) for a couple cycles in case of delayed O.

[stellabella]

Thank you so much for this and for the encouragement. Will absolutely come back and update if there is a BFP!

[Girlplze]

Hi,
I am also a long time reader, first time poster as I could not remember my username or password [emoji2957]
I have three sons who were all conceived the very first month trying. 2 were vacation babies (so lots of bd) and one was from one attempt all month!
My youngest is now 6 and although I never wanted more than 3 kids I haven’t been able to let go of my dream for a daughter. I had a surprise pregnancy last summer followed by an early miscarriage. After that we decided that we needed to make sure #4 was a girl and so we tried IVF with PGD last September. Unfortunately during all of the pre-testing we discovered that I have very low AMH for my age (38) and IVF would probably not work. I was determined so we tried anyway and $8,000 later I had a cancelled cycle :(

So I started swaying. My doctor put me on Femera to improve my odds but no luck after 6 months. I was doing everything recommended, checking my ph (consistently 4.5- DH was 7 from the sperm analysis we had done), using OPK test strips for timing, watching my diet, I was doing intermittent fasting, lots of walks, I used rephresh for 2 months. The 7th month I was feeling extremely discouraged as it was my first unmedicated cycle. I tried the E4D plus one attempt method and it worked! I am currently 10 weeks pregnant and waiting on my NIPT test and I am an absolute wreck. The month I conceived we dtd the first day after AF cd7, cd10(DH had a hot tub before and I elevated my hips afterwards and went to sleep), cd 11 I got my peak on Clear blue at midnight and we dtd at 7am the next morning (cd12) as DH was sleeping. Looks like I ovulated cd13. I didn’t have another attempt all month after that even though I should have with the e4d. I just wanted to try only bding before O first.

Sorry that was so long winded!! In the end I feel I did everything I could have. It was so hard adding the stress of swaying to not being able to conceive. Wishing you the best of luck! I will update with my test results.

One more thing- I was also very dry with the Femera. The month I conceived without it I think I had lot of CM during my attemps. I am stressed over that but I do think it is what helped me get pregnant. Oh and no O for me!

[stellabella]

Thank you so much for sharing your story and CONGRATULATIONS!! What a miracle baby, I am so happy for you! And thank you so much for sharing your tips!

[Girlplze]

I just found out it’s a boy so maybe don’t follow my advice[emoji29] I can’t believe my luck… I waited 6 years to build up the courage to try again once and for all and this is the outcome[emoji174]


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[stellabella]

Oh wow, I am so sorry. I know in the thick of it, that gender disappointment is confusing and upsetting. For me, further into my pregnancy and once my belly popped, I did get a lot more excited and accepting of the little boy growing inside of me. Something I tell myself if I end up with an all-gender family is that it really is the most FUN household. Growing up, I had two friends with all girls and they were my favorite houses to go to. I also am the least close with my opposite gender sibling as is my husband. I hate to say it, but the bond between same genders is typically closer. SO if that's what I end up with, there are definitely pros and it really is more fun for your children.

Thank you for taking the time to share your update. Thinking of you :awe:

[Girlplze]

Atomic- was this just bad luck or do you think my very plentiful CM was part of the problem? I always have a lot for thr full week :/


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[atomic sagebrush]

I just found out it’s a boy so maybe don’t follow my advice[emoji29] I can’t believe my luck… I waited 6 years to build up the courage to try again once and for all and this is the outcome[emoji174]


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I'm sorry, you and I were apparently posting at the same time, I deleted my post.

I'm sorry your sway did not go as you hoped and wishing you every joy with your new son.

[atomic sagebrush]

Atomic- was this just bad luck or do you think my very plentiful CM was part of the problem? I always have a lot for thr full week :/


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I can't tell anyone why their sway produced an opposite. We have seen scads of CM opposites (I myself got a boy with no visible CM and didn't even know I ovulated, and my daughter I did have CM) and I no longer think that tells us anything. There are just too many opposites with that to indicate anything about a sway.

[Girlplze]

OK…thanks for replying. It’s just one of those things[emoji29] I do feel like I really tried my best and I can’t think of much I would’ve done differently in retrospect (it’s hard to sway when you have trouble conceiving!)


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[Girlplze]

Stellabella thanks so much for your kind words[emoji3590]You are right. I grew up with 3 brothers and was desperate for a sister my whole childhood. Probably because I was the oldest. I was 10 when my baby brother was born and my GD started then[emoji2360] I prayed and prayed for a girl and sobbed for days when my mom told me it was a boy. And here I am 28 years later! But as I reached the teenage years my friends became my sisters and I have a wonderful relationship with all of my brothers so ALL good on that front.


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[atomic sagebrush]

OK…thanks for replying. It’s just one of those things[emoji29] I do feel like I really tried my best and I can’t think of much I would’ve done differently in retrospect (it’s hard to sway when you have trouble conceiving!)


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Without a more full accounting of what happened I can't say for sure (not that I can EVER say for sure, of course) but in many cases where people have trouble conceiving, they may start out (and continue on for a long time) doing overly strict sway tactics, many of which don't work and cut odds of conception by a lot, then they end up having to drop a lot to conceive. While this may not have been true for you, I would have made every effort to see you conceive while still on the medication by getting rid of things that didn't work and focusing only on what did.

Also whenever anyone has an opposite, moving forward I put them on the alternate PCOS-form of LE Diet as a precaution even if they don't have PCOS. We've had good luck coming back from sway opposites just by making that one change. :heart: Again, congrats on your new son! There's something so special about the sway opposite little guys - I know it's hard to see now when it's just a theoretical kid but truly they have a unique place in our hearts and in our families.

[stellabella]

Love this sentiment and thank you both for sharing. Girlplze, I know this little baby will steal your heart. My mom and my brother's wife are nearly as close as my mom and her two daughters. I always joke that I just plan on being the best mother-in-law ever!! ;)

Just saw today, 11 DPO, a faint bfp on a pregnancy test. I can't believe it. I'm over the moon. I feel like I did my best and currently want to be team green. If it's a girl, my dream has come true. If it's a boy, my son gets a brother 2 years and 4 months younger than him which is amazing.

Thank you so much for your help. So thankful that despite using the rephresh O-1, it appears the letrozole may have given me the magic power to conceive despite it!

[Girlplze]

Wonderful!! Fingers crossed[emoji1695][emoji1695][emoji1695][emoji177]


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[Girlplze]

Sadly I have had a miscarriage. I can’t even begin to explain what’s going on in my head right now- sadness…relief…guilt[emoji29] This has ALL been such a roller coaster! I’m back on the diet and focussed on trying again as soon as I can. I was very obsessive last time (which now I know sways blue[emoji2957]) and can’t go down that path again. I’m already feeling much more relaxed because I felt I tried everything last time and it didn’t work. I think every 4 days is my best option (without an extra at positive opk- I have had 3 boys conceived at positive opk?!)

[atomic sagebrush]

Oh no I'm so sorry to read this. :heart:

Yes I'd just do the e4d in the 72 hour pattern (and if you can't bear that at the start, the 96 hour pattern can work, it's just lower chances of conception). No extra attempt needed to begin with, and it's entirely possible you won't ever need to add it.

[stellabella]

I'm so sorry to hear that, I know you must be having so many mixed emotions. I'm glad you will have another chance to see if that little girl might really be in the future, you never know what could happen.

I'll be curious to see how this pregnancy turns out with 0-3, 0-1 and O day. We also used the elements of letrozole, intermittent fasting, low calorie diet, OLE for husband and folic acid only for me, hot showers before DTD with rephresh 0-1 to lower ph. Was tempted to use pressed but abstained as that's how I got baby #1 (probably coincidence but you know how superstitions go). I definitely didn't do the same things with this pregnancy as I did with the first (Shettles method only, daily sex until 0-2). I will absolutely be sure to come back and report and if we end up finding out the gender before birth, I'll report that too!

Thinking of you Girlplze and hoping you get everything you hope for. Big hugs XOXO

[Girlplze]

Thanks Atomic and Stellabella[emoji3590] Wishing you so much luck[emoji1695][emoji177]


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[stellabella]

I just wanted to share with all of you that we did find out the gender at 19 weeks and we are in fact having another little boy.

I am disappointed, but I do feel I did everything I could in swaying - the timing, the one attempts before limited attempts, the rephresh, the supplements, the intermittent fasting, eating vegetarian, limiting certain foods, kneeling prayers for a year, endless hours of research on this site, letrozole... and it makes me wonder if having a girl will never been an realistic option for me unless we do IVF with PGD. It took eight months to conceive this time.

After two failed sways (first was shettles) and the horrible emotional rollercoaster when it doesn't work out... I don't think I can sway again. It's just too difficult. And the thought of three boys and no daughter is simply too much to bear. I am currently in therapy and I know that it will help me navigate my grief while still holding gratitude for this boy on his way.

I'm going to need to work on acceptance, and I know that will be tough. Thank you all for your help in the process. XO -

[atomic sagebrush]

Oh gosh I'm so sorry to hear that things did not go the way we were hoping. I have your email message and will get back to you ASAP.

While I know it's hard to believe, everyone can have a boy or a girl. If we had enough children, eventually (with or without swaying) we would have an opposite. But IVF/PGD is a way to hopefully ensure that happens sooner rather than later, so we don't have to "Duggar it out" and put our bodies thru numerous pregnancies.

No matter what, I am here to help you in any way I can - with gender disappointment, with IVF prep, whatever you need. :heart:

[stellabella]

Thank you so much for your thoughtful reply, truly.

I agree with you, and my husband and I currently think what makes the most sense for our family is to enjoy these sweet brothers, welcome this second little boy with joy and love and then pursue an IVF/PGD journey to complete our family.

I am very excited to meet this little boy and I know I will love him endlessly, but the swaying doesn't seem to be working for us and because this longing for a little girl is only growing, I think IVF will be our best option and protect our hearts from experiencing this gender disappointment for a third time.

Thank you for everything. I will likely be utilizing the IVF support thread in the next year! Trying to figure out what the best time will be for an egg retrieval after having a spring baby. Thanks everyone -