Ttc after miscarriage.

[afya1]

Hey Atomic,
Hope all is well with you. I’m back after a little break. not sure if you remember back in April I had a Missed miscarriage at 15 weeks. Baby had stopped growing at around 13 weeks.
I’m slowly preparing myself to Ttc again. I had attempted a mild boy Sway. But I really wanted to up my chances of conception. We haven’t used any protection, having regular sex every 2-4 days. I haven’t conceived as of yet.

AF is due in about 4-5 days. When can I start the mucinex? I’ve been drinking lemon water not sure if that can help. But either way I drink lots of water. This cycle I tracked ovulation I’ve had LOTS of EWCM and ovulated on CD 15 I’m currently on CD 25 my cycles last about 29-30 days.
In my last 3 pregnancies (including the miscarriage) I used preseed and I pretty much conceived in the first month of trying. I will go ahead and use preseed this time. Any other positions or tips please fill me in! Thank you.


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[atomic sagebrush]

Yes, I do remember you, so sorry for your loss. :heart:

Everything in a blue sway should help boost chances of conception. So there's nothing to drop from the mix really, it will all help.

I generally have people take the guaifenesin starting 5 days before they expect O and continuing 3 days after.

If you're making lots of EWCM I'd probably just skip Preseed in that case. A couple studies have found that while Preseed is better than other jellies, it's still inferior to EWCM so I'd just stick with EWCM if you have a good amount.

[afya1]

Thank you Atomic.

I’ll stick to the least amount of preseed, I’ve always used it when trying to conceive.

So I’m currently on CD 27. I’ve been using both of the ovulation strips and CB opk. This cycle I got a darker than the test line later at night of CD 14 around 11:30pm and early CD 15 I got my a peak on CB and the strips were still dark so I went with the first positive which was late on CD 14, would I consider that to be the day of +Opk? Or the CD 15 clear blue peak

Another thing I did want to mention, so far it’s showing possible O day to be on the 16th December, which is considered to be CD15 HOWEVER DH is leaving to go abroad for 3 weeks on that day!!!!

So for example DH leaves on CD 15
And if I get a +opk on CD 14 or 15, what’s the best BD pattern I could keep up, and keeping in mind I could possibly BD the morning of CD15 (the day he leaves)
My previous pregnancy I dtd every 2-4 days and when O was approaching I did O-3, O-2, and O-1. Or could I stick to O-4, O-2, O-1 and if +Opk day is the CD 15 (the day he leaves) try a O+1 the morning of?

Is there still a chance of pregnancy if we aren’t able to Dtd day after O day or maybe the same day! I hope it’s not too confusing!

Thank you for your efforts and advice [emoji3590]


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[atomic sagebrush]

I have you guys start attempting based on the first OPK of any brand. It may be that the brand that goes positive is indeed more accurate but the thing is, you can conceive from attempts too soon, but not too late, so it's best to start attempts with the first positive not wait around for them all to be in agreement.

The apps really aren't reliable so let's just wait and see. Hopefully you'll ovulate sooner than that and then it's just academic.

I would skip O-4 and hit it O-3 thru when he leaves as much as you can.

Yes there's still a fine chance without an O Day attempt! And the day after O actually has never led to a conception. We only have attempt that day in case ovulation is later than we expect.

[afya1]

Yes that makes sense,

So ideally, I should dtd 3 consecutive days the last day being the day he leaves which is roughly CD 15.

Worst case scenario if I get a +opk the day he leaves or day after, I hopefully will have the previous attempts that will cover me.

He leaves on the 16th December, would the 14th, 15th and 16th of December be considered as 3 attempts? Would you highly recommend we BD morning of 16th since it’s closer to potential
Ovulation date? I wanted to know what days are more important incase Dh runs out of steam lol

Also, if DH isn’t able to dtd morning of the 16th (The day he leaves which is CD15 ) I could BD on 13th, 14th and 15th December? I know the apps arent reliable but so far it’s showing Ovulation day CD 16-17 but this cycle I O’d on late night CD14.
I do hope I ovulate around CD14 or 15, this would mean it would be the day DH leaves.

Thank you again!


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[atomic sagebrush]

Yes if you can, that's fantastic! Exactly right, you will have the previous attempts to carry the day. I got 3 of my 4 boys doing exactly that - several attempts then stopping before O. One time my husband wasn't even at home, just like you're describing, when the egg dropped!

We can't know in advance what days are most important because we dont' know when the egg will show up. We can't rely on the apps and stuff because they don't predict very well. It is totally possible you will O CD 14. But yes, err on the side of not starting TOO soon, but keep in mind that O can come early too!

It's great if you can have an attempt that morning but if not it can still work for you without it. Don't stress too much if it doesn't work out, the important thing is being in with 2-3 attempts!!

[afya1]

Thank you Atomic! Feeling pretty bummed. As AF showed up today. This means O day will be pushed even more further away. Nonetheless, I’ll still go ahead and try some attempts. So far CD 14-15 will be be either on 17 or 18th of December. That’s when I might get a +opk, but DH will be long gone by the 16th December
All I can do is wish for the best.

Is it right, that your periods usually come 2 weeks after a + opk?

[emoji30].


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[atomic sagebrush]

Well, you never know, you may ovulate earlier than you expected this month! FXFXFX!

Period usually comes 12-14 days after ovulation so yes, in most cases you will see your period show up about 2 weeks after positive OPK!

[afya1]

Hey Atomic,

I just wanted to get some advice, DH will be leaving around 6am on the 16th. We usually always BD late evenings! (After the kids are down ofc! Lol)

So far I was thinking to dtd on the evenings of the 13th, 14th and 15th. I wasn’t sure if we should go for a last early morning attempt on the 16th but that would be very close to our late night attempt on the 15th (we usually get time alone by 10-11pm ish) this would mean it would have only been about 6hours or so since we last Dtd. would that not decrease sperm count?

Or should I stick to evening off 14th, 15th and morning of the 16? I’m not sure if the 13th attempt is too far off and 16 is closer to O day

I highly doubt DH will want to have another BD session in such a small space of time!!


What would you suggest? So far apps showing supposedly O day is 18th! [emoji30]

[atomic sagebrush]

The apps aren't very reliable so take that with a grain of salt.

While I would love to see you guys do 13, 14, 15, morning of the 16th, I would do 14, 15, morning of the 16th if you think DH can't go that often. Six hours between should not matter, sperm count would have recovered by then, and it actually doesn't matter even if it did suppress sperm count. This is because when you're having many attempts in the fertile window (instead of the Shettles one attempt) you're simply adding more and more sperm, instead of relying on one HUGE batch to carry the day. So even if the final batch was a little smaller (again, it probably won't be) it will simply be added to the previous sperm numbers and it will only help regardless of what size it is.

To illustrate, we're really comparing:

The old school Shettles style with one big batch of sperm - let's say 200 million sperm

to

Our method of lots of attempts where you'd have the batch from CD 14 (200 million) the batch from CD 15 (200 million) and then the batch from CD 16. Even if that final batch from CD 16 was only half of normal (which again, it probably would not be) you'd still end up with more sperm overall than if you had had just one attempt. Even if you only ended up with the batch from CD 15 and 16 you'd still have more sperm than just one attempt would be!

[afya1]

Okay, that sounds great. So we’ll do the 13th, 14th 15th and morning of 16th. I already gave DH a little prep talk, he seems pretty ok with it!

Well I’m tracking O day, today I go a flashy smile on the CB, which hopefully means I see a peak earlier!!

After dtd, we should stay lying down for about how long? I mostly do 10 mins with pillow propped under and then I lie on my belly and just fall asleep.

You mentioned pre seed being inferior to Ewcm, I wanted to use a very small amount as I can get dry when dtd. Should I use the least amount suggested on the syringe or half of that?


Another thing, the nature made prenatal I take I wasn’t sure if it’s got enough folic acid. Would you suggest I take more? I recently had a miscarriage not sure if it would help taking a little more?
(I’ve attached a picture of the prenatal https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20211213/857846ab42c2879a981c59271c3fbb08.jpg
vitamins I’m taking)
Thank you once again [emoji3590]


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[atomic sagebrush]

FXFXFX for an early eggo!

I would stay laying down for 15-30 minutes if possible. I don't find the pillow propping to be necessary but do lay part of the time on your belly.

If you don't have the EWCM then yes you need Preseed. That advice is for people who HAVE enough EWCM, they don't need Preseed. Preseed is for the people who aren't making much EWCM. I would use however much you need to be comfortable.

Actually that does have a fair amount of folate in it (don't worry about the equivalent of folic acid). If you'd like, you may want to get an additional 400 mcg folate and take it at two different times of day - so you're taking some breakfast, lunch, and dinner. This may help with future pregnancies, or it may not (if the issue was some totally unrelated thing). Take it till the end of the first trimester then gradually wean off by spacing doses further and further out till down to the amount in a prenatal.

[afya1]

Thank you Atomic.
Generally speaking during my fertile days I have a lot of EWCM it’s egg white like but sometimes during BD I tend to get dry so I’ll stick to a small amount.

There were no reasons as to why baby’s heart beat stopped. I had the NIPT test done and they also did genetic testing and everything came back ok. So I usually take my prenatal with breakfast and the additional folic acid I can take dinner time?


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[atomic sagebrush]

Yes, you can take it like that, but better still would be to take some at lunch and some at dinner. Because folic acid/folate are water soluble, you'll pee out any excess, and so for best levels in your body, smaller amounts across the day is ideal.

[afya1]

Great. I’ll keep that in mind.

Just out of curiosity, I’ve read a lot about 2-3days before Ovulation leading to higher chances of conception. I was confused does this mean positive result for ovulation , or ACTUALLY ovulating! We really don’t know exactly when the egg will drop
But many people have said they were using opks and dtd 2-3 days before ovulation, and they got BFPs. So I’m assuming it’s 2-3days before a +opk? I know it’s not necessarily true for me or everyone. I was just driving myself a little crazy. [emoji30]


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[afya1]

Yes, you can take it like that, but better still would be to take some at lunch and some at dinner. Because folic acid/folate are water soluble, you'll pee out any excess, and so for best levels in your body, smaller amounts across the day is ideal.

Atomic, how much more folic acid should I buy, should I get the 400mg? And take them twice a day? I also have the folic acid in my prenatal.

Also when can I stop taking Mucinex? I have been taken it twice a day since Saturday, because DH is leaving tomorrow, I decided to start earlier, would I stop tomorrow or till I see +opk?


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[atomic sagebrush]

Can you link me to where you're reading this? 3 days before ovulation is pretty low chances of conception. 1-2 days before O are the two best days. Sometimes once I read a source I can explain why it's not reliable.

This means ACTUALLY ovulating. So when you get that first positive OPK, you're typically 1-2 days before O happens and that is why we do things the way that we do - by having sex at that point in time, you hit the exact time you're going to have good chances of conception.

Anyone saying they had sex 2-3 days before a positive OPK and conceived from that either a) got insanely lucky (sex 4 days before O is 1 in 1000 chance of conception, 5 days before O is 1 in 10,000) b) was not testing correctly with OPK and didn't get their positive on the strip till very late in the surge, so the time from pos to ovulation was very very small or else they'd even already ovulated by the time they detected the surge c) had sex later on after they THOUGHT they'd ovulated and conceived from the later attempt or d) is lying/misspeaking to try to get attention or to fit in with some method of swaying they wanted to try even tho it didn't work out (I know it sounds crazy but people do this a shocking amount - either give some insane story about an impossible conception that simply cannot be true, or else stretch the truth to fit in with what a swaying site is telling them)

Most people online do not know what they're talking about with OPK. The apps are worse than nothing and are terribly misleading, giving lots of people incorrect info. Don't drive yourself crazy reading these things, come to me and get accurate information about OPK!

[atomic sagebrush]

Yep, I'd get the 400 and take one at lunch and one at dinner. That will get you to the level I recommend for blue and also for helping to hopefully prevent losses (which is 1600-2000 after an unexplained loss)

Continue the Mucinex till three days after ovulation.

[afya1]

Yep, I'd get the 400 and take one at lunch and one at dinner. That will get you to the level I recommend for blue and also for helping to hopefully prevent losses (which is 1600-2000 after an unexplained loss)

Continue the Mucinex till three days after ovulation.

Thank you atomic, so its fine to take that much more folic acid not forgetting the amount I have in the prenatal already? I’ve attached the image of the folic acid I’m currently looking to buy.

Are these ok?


https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20211215/63ce1f470fe543e44c55b168430ef66b.jpg
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20211215/5b5b9f8c1898b1039cda4e171187edd5.jpg


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[afya1]

Can you link me to where you're reading this? 3 days before ovulation is pretty low chances of conception. 1-2 days before O are the two best days. Sometimes once I read a source I can explain why it's not reliable.

This means ACTUALLY ovulating. So when you get that first positive OPK, you're typically 1-2 days before O happens and that is why we do things the way that we do - by having sex at that point in time, you hit the exact time you're going to have good chances of conception.

Anyone saying they had sex 2-3 days before a positive OPK and conceived from that either a) got insanely lucky (sex 4 days before O is 1 in 1000 chance of conception, 5 days before O is 1 in 10,000) b) was not testing correctly with OPK and didn't get their positive on the strip till very late in the surge, so the time from pos to ovulation was very very small or else they'd even already ovulated by the time they detected the surge c) had sex later on after they THOUGHT they'd ovulated and conceived from the later attempt or d) is lying/misspeaking to try to get attention or to fit in with some method of swaying they wanted to try even tho it didn't work out (I know it sounds crazy but people do this a shocking amount - either give some insane story about an impossible conception that simply cannot be true, or else stretch the truth to fit in with what a swaying site is telling them)

Most people online do not know what they're talking about with OPK. The apps are worse than nothing and are terribly misleading, giving lots of people incorrect info. Don't drive yourself crazy reading these things, come to me and get accurate information about OPK!

It absolutely makes sense, definitely going to watch the stuff I read, hence the confusion.
What I meant was to say can conception occurs from sex that was taken place 2-3days before ACTUALLY ovulating.

https://www.ovulation-calculators.com/ovulation-questions/can-you-get-pregnant-3-4-5-days-before-ovulation/

I may have misunderstood this or they are speaking complete rubbish… it most definitely must mean when your actually ovulating.. it makes sense.


So, CD 12 (15th December) I got what I think is a + Opk, at 9pm, We DTD late night. https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20211215/a14c1b670a132a7d56b6f9464b89dbcd.jpg

And this morning CD 13 (16th December) it was pretty much the same, and I got a peak on the CB

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20211216/2c40a430f4a45a129a0691812e0f99a2.jpg

Would you consider the first strip as my +opk as both seemed to be same in darkness.

Would CD 12 (first opk strip) be considered as +opk, if so then our BD pattern would be O-4 O-2, O-1 and evening of +Opk.
I got a Peak on CB the morning after, not sure which one counts first!
DH left super early around 4:30am! We weren’t able to dtd.

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[atomic sagebrush]

Yes, that was including the amount in your prenatal. If you get the one that had 665 mcg folate only take one more of those.

[atomic sagebrush]

Yes, that is based on bad and outdated info, and it is completely shameful that they're still using it. It is based on studies in which women self-reported when they ovulated and it was never confirmed (not to mention when they had sex, which, researchers cannot ever know that that is legit) and/or studies where the researcher assumed ovulation on CD 14 when that is not at all true for everyone or even most people. Junk science that is causing people to think they are infertile when they aren't, they're just having sex at the wrong time!

Just because "living" sperm have been retrieved from the reproductive tract 5-7 days before ovulation, that DOES NOT MEAN that those sperm can or could fertilize anything. Only 5% of sperm even live 4 days, and the AVERAGE length of time sperm survive is a day and a half. We see people going months, even years trying to conceive with 3-4-5 day cutoffs (for pink.) The best studies done using modern technology showed that the chances of sex 4 days before O were 1 in 1000, 5 days before O were 1 in 10,000, and 6 days before O were one in 100,000 (and I have that study on here posted somewhere). This is very much in line with our observations, where people simply are not conceiving with those cutoffs and when people think they do, upon further investigation I find out that they ovulated soooner than they thought in the vast majority of the cases.

(now, this doesn't mean that having sex those days cannot help with conception in some ways - you don't need to skip those days when swaying blue, because more sperm and exposure to the hormones in semen even when not fertile, can help make YOU more likely to conceive. It just means you can't rely on those long cutoffs to conceive with because it's unlikely enough that we can't base a sway on it.)

1-2 days before is best chances of conception (somewhere around 30-35% apiece depending on the study you go off of, as different studies have slightly different findings, which is to be expected) O Day is next best but there is some variation in the reports, with some studies finding very good chances with O Day (nearly as good as 1-2 days before), and other studies finding somewhat lower chances on O Day than O-1 and O-2...since I have seen disappointing conception rates with people trying Shettles for boys on O Day only, I suspect that O Day IS lower than O-1 and 2. O-3 is, in every reliable study I have seen and in my observations, below the three other days (I averaged this out once and it was 8% but I haven't done it for a while), and any day further out than that is not successful enough to rely on.

[atomic sagebrush]

The darkness of your OPK does not matter and has far more to do with the concentration of your urine than what is happening inside your body. I know the apps make it sound like darkness matters but it's really quite irrelevant and the darkest OPK means precisely nothing at all whatsoever.

I generally go off of the FIRST opk of any brand rather than waiting for them to agree. You did exactly right on when to DTD.

I do consider your CD 12 OPK positive. You had well timed attempts and even with your hubby gone I think that was a solid attempt.

[afya1]

Thank you atomic. So when would you consider an opk to be positive ? Is it the first bit of darkness you get? Because on CD13 early morning around 5am, the test strip was darker than the control line and I got a peak on the CB. I feel as though the CB fertility is a little limited, the strips are able to test more.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20211218/6d6c3c08c0a186f4dd8c6e811fec6995.jpg
I’ve attached the picture of the strips. I know Premom app is not reliable like most of them. I purely used this to take pictures since I throw my tests away afterwards. This was purely for my own record. But I can see CD12 there was when it was beginning to darken. How would I interpret these results?


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[atomic sagebrush]

No, it is not the first bit of color on the OPK. Believe it or not your husband could get those kind of fainter lines on OPK sometimes because the human body uses the hormone for lots of things. It's only when the concentration reaches a certain amount that ovulation is triggered.

Positive is when the lines are as dark or darker than control line. At least from what I can see on here (keeping in mind that looking at a photo on a computer is going to be less accurate than what you see in person) your second OPK CD 12 is the first positive.

What the apps say is "peak" is nonsense BS that they made up. Up until the apps were invented like 2 years ago, what EVERY expert in NFP called "peak" was the FIRST POSITIVE. Not the darkest. (and what fertility monitors call "peak fertility" begins roughly with first positive OPK on the strips) Darkest positive is not and never was a "thing". The reason for this is because you ovulate based on when your body "hears" the message, which it does at the first positive OPK, even if the test gets darker later on. No one was ever supposed to, and indeed, should NOT wait around for a "darkest" OPK which you can only see in retrospect anyway. What if you skip a CD 12 attempt and never GET a darker one on CD 13?? The entire premise is absolute utter nonsense.

Now, when it comes to the fertility monitors like CBFM and others, remember that most people are not swaying, and start having sex with the "highs" and go thru the "peak". So really it's not less accurate or limited, it's just that it is slightly less helpful because people do tend to get "peak" slightly later than on the strips, but they still want you to be having sex on the second "high" if not all the high readings. You can still use them successfully, just that we need to treat the demarkation between high and peak a little differently.

[afya1]

Thank you atomic; for clarifying everything for me. It makes sense now and I’m glad I haven’t taken the apps too seriously…

Hopefully we have our bases covered, I wanted to ask if there’s anything we need to do for implantation, again I’m not sure on the accuracy but people say there’s certain things we can do to encourage implantation, or “prep the environment”. Is this something that actually helps?

Another thing, I’m in the 2WW now, I said I wouldn’t symptom spot but I’ve been getting period like cramps since yesterday and lower backache I’m about 3-4dpo. [emoji37] I read through my old posts and I had similar symptoms right around this time for my last pregnancy.. it’s going to be a long wait’

Are there any 2WW groups here?

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