Low ovarian reserve and a cyst, failed transfer - any natural ivf options or try pink sway? HELP!

[Dreamingpinkafterblue]

First of all thank you atomic for responding to my email, posting it here again with additional info, so that it might be easy for you and all to respond! Any help deeply deeply appreciated!

I have been looking everywhere for some hope and came to the gender dreaming forums and it was somehow comforting to see I am not alone or I am not crazy! Such a great thing you all are doing for people like us!

Just to give a little bit about me, I have a loving husband and two beautiful sons, and I know you hear this a lot, I love them to death and wouldn’t trade them for anything, but I admit I really really want a daughter too! I was hoping for that from my first pregnancy but then though. Little disappointed both times, I cant express how happy I am looking at my cutie pies! They are the best! But deep down I still feel that need for some pink!

I was able to convince my husband that our third and last has to be a girl and we did take the most effective route first ivf with Pgd, my AMH was low so could get only two eggs, still I thought god blessed us since the one embryo chromosomally normal was a female! I was over the moon, none of the hardships in ivf affected me because I was so close to getting what I have always dreamed of! But nope! She ddnt stick and my worst nightmare became true!

Now I am back to square one! I don’t think I want to go through that same stimulated ivf round again, since anyways my chances are low with low egg reserve and it is taxing on everyone! Also I have an ovarian cyst as well, and somewhere in the journey we were worried whether it may turn it to something worst, but luckily that didn’t happen!

So in here , now for some pink sway, and I still believe in god and thinking if it is meant to be it will be!

at this point, I really want this and I am ready for anything to sway pink as far it is not those strong Stims medications again! Just worried if that will kill my body and my husband is totally worried and against it now, other than the ivf medications, he is onboard for anything and everything!

But have you heard of people with low AMH going any other route like natural ivf? Is that even an option?

[Dreamingpinkafterblue]

Bumping to see if any input on my situation! Atomic- I have anyways started your suggestion on diet!

[atomic sagebrush]

Thanks for your patience, this has been a nutty week for me.

The first thing I will ask is if the docs had any insight into why your AMH is so low? Did they hold out any hope for a different protocol?

And how low IS low?? Sometimes people are told they have "low AMH" when really it's only slightly low and is overcome-able. Medications like metformin may help improve your egg quality as well.

I would suggest that in the meantime, you follow the type of diet that is for people who may sway or may go high tech in this thread: https://genderdreaming.com/forum/gender-swaying-general-discussion/9052-swaying-under-special-circumstances-part-3-pcos.html That way you're getting benefits straight away for future sway but you're also helping your IVF chances.

What is your age and BMI? Does your husband have any health issues that affect his sperm negatively?

Your other message says you're an RN, so are you on your feet all day?? We have special exercise rules for nurses, teachers, etc who are on their feet all day because that's already a very taxing job.

Would you be willing to use donor eggs?? If your AMH is low that might be your best chance.

Natural IVF will not be an option for you, most likely. PGD is a numbers game, and the reason they use the medications to start with is to help you get more eggs to get to the lab and be checked for gender. I don't generally recommend natural IVF for PGD rounds (tho it can be a fine way to go for transfers, once several eggs are retrieved and fertilized) because for success with PGD you simply have to get as many eggs as you possibly can, and natural IVF just doesn't make that happen. I know as you sit there you probably think "but I only got 2 eggs even with the meds" but the docs do have the ability to tweak protocols and can sometimes get better results than they did the first time. In fact, even without using a different protocol, some months are just better than others, so another round may yield better success rates.

Are you or were you taking any supplements?? Supplements are not always safe, and have many risks/side effects that are not commonly known (including possibly interfering with implantation - even things that supposedly help). This is especially true if you're combining a lot of supplements or dropping them suddenly at ovulation. If you give me a list of everything you're taking I can help you winnow out things that may cause more harm than good, and we can give you a better chance of another transfer sticking if we can get rid of the harmful ones.

[Dreamingpinkafterblue]

Thanks for your patience, this has been a nutty week for me.

The first thing I will ask is if the docs had any insight into why your AMH is so low? Did they hold out any hope for a different protocol?

And how low IS low?? Sometimes people are told they have "low AMH" when really it's only slightly low and is overcome-able. Medications like metformin may help improve your egg quality as well.

I would suggest that in the meantime, you follow the type of diet that is for people who may sway or may go high tech in this thread: https://genderdreaming.com/forum/gender-swaying-general-discussion/9052-swaying-under-special-circumstances-part-3-pcos.html That way you're getting benefits straight away for future sway but you're also helping your IVF chances.

What is your age and BMI? Does your husband have any health issues that affect his sperm negatively?

Your other message says you're an RN, so are you on your feet all day?? We have special exercise rules for nurses, teachers, etc who are on their feet all day because that's already a very taxing job.

Would you be willing to use donor eggs?? If your AMH is low that might be your best chance.

Natural IVF will not be an option for you, most likely. PGD is a numbers game, and the reason they use the medications to start with is to help you get more eggs to get to the lab and be checked for gender. I don't generally recommend natural IVF for PGD rounds (tho it can be a fine way to go for transfers, once several eggs are retrieved and fertilized) because for success with PGD you simply have to get as many eggs as you possibly can, and natural IVF just doesn't make that happen. I know as you sit there you probably think "but I only got 2 eggs even with the meds" but the docs do have the ability to tweak protocols and can sometimes get better results than they did the first time. In fact, even without using a different protocol, some months are just better than others, so another round may yield better success rates.

Are you or were you taking any supplements?? Supplements are not always safe, and have many risks/side effects that are not commonly known (including possibly interfering with implantation - even things that supposedly help). This is especially true if you're combining a lot of supplements or dropping them suddenly at ovulation. If you give me a list of everything you're taking I can help you winnow out things that may cause more harm than good, and we can give you a better chance of another transfer sticking if we can get rid of the harmful ones.


Thank you so much atomic for the response! Sorry to keep bugging you with bumping!

No, they said for my age they expected higher amh, and I did pretest at 2 labs in a gap of couple of months and it was .7 and .46 , and they said it can vary a bit like that. My husband had a good semen analysis report. We got pregnant both times without any issues in our first tries

I was given highest dose of stims and I am not sure but my husband has a feeling it somehow aggravated my cyst, because we never got diagnosed with a cyst before this ivf process and the cyst, which is my left ovary is somewhat large. Irrespective of my high medication, like you said it was still 2 eggs (you read my mind there , atomic) and yes I do think that now I don’t hVe much hope in getting more eggs. So my hubby is now dead against getting medicated with stims! He is totally worried but at one point of tome the dr thought it was cancerous though they got a second opinion and ruled that out like 99.99%. My DH almost cried that day when dr called us about that. So now I am in a position where I don’t know how to convince him again! Though my mind now alters between trying my luck with swaying with giving my best or should I go for one more round! I have a post Fet appoint in couple of weeks, so wanted to know what I should be asking the doctor now!

Also I have question, if it is just one cyst and never had any other hormonal issues, will it be still considered as pcos?

Just to give a brief, I am vegetarian, not even eggs but my husband eats meat mainly chicken at times, very very rarely red meat. My BMI is 20.5 and my husband’s is is 24! We both are gonna be 36 soon.

I used to take whole milk and other full fat diary. my normal food is mostly Asian so involves rice and wheat but I can cut down. I infact already started following the diet you have shared before but not fully there yet. I take thyroid medication and used to take prenatal vitamins but stopped it now after going through these forums. I don’t t take any other supplements. But I just got fiber and folic acid as I was reading through a lot here

I used to run but hasn’t been running since my second kid, so almost 2 years but I just picked it up that habit back just now slowly. I am alternating between elliptical and running now. Is that good?

Again, not sure where I mentioned about RN but that’s a misunderstanding, sorry if intended that Nywhere! I work in a bank and mainly work sitting in front of a computer.

And about donor eggs - no I don’t think that’s an option we would want to consider, in fact, sorry it might sound silly, we haven’t told our closest friends/relatives about any of this because we wanted to keep this journey private and avoid judgements.

[Dreamingpinkafterblue]

Bumping up and just wanted to mention I was taking aspirin during treatment As the dr recommended, will that affect anything?

[Girlplze]

Hi Dreamingpink!
I have 3 boys that I conceived naturally without any effort. Fast forward 5 years after a mc from an accidental pregnancy and we were finally ready to do IVF PGD for a girl. We found out I had very low AMH for my age (37 at the time) and that it wasn't likely to work out. I was hell bent on trying to we proceeded but I didn't make it to transfer. My cycle was cancelled and I was crushed. My dr put me on a high dose of Letrozole and we started swaying after that. I tried so many sway tactics (douches etc) that I wasn't getting pregnant and assumed it was also because of my low ovarian reserve. So I loosened my sway, stopped taking the letrozole and we BD 3x in my fertile week in an every other day pattern. I found out it was a boy through NIPT- was crushed and then miscarried shortly afterwards. I was determined to keep swaying but my cycles were a mess afterwards so I went with the every 4 day method. Within 4 months I conceived again. The month I conceived I took 2.5mg of left over letroxole to try and regulate my cycle taken cd 2-6. We bd on cd 10 and again at first positive opk on cd 13 and cd 17. It looks like I ovulated around cd15/16. Anyway! It's a healthy GIRL! I truly believe it was the E4D pattern, letrozole and perhaps my diet a little. I wasn't going crazy with diet but was trying to follow things recommended on here as well as intermittent fasting. All the best to you xx

[atomic sagebrush]

Darn it, I kept wondering where this post had gone and convinced myself I must have answered!!! Let me get back to you tomorrow as this is long and I have a school thing with my kiddos this afternoon! Thanks for bump!!!

[Dreamingpinkafterblue]

Hey bumping this again 😊

And update : I had an appointment with my doctor and he is suggesting micro flare protocol for my next try if I am going with a next try ( that’s a big IF, husband isn’t still convinced though he came with me to the dr, he is concerned whether more aggressive medication is gonna mess up my body in any way) any experience here with micro flare protocol?

[atomic sagebrush]

To my way of thinking, if IVF is an option (without completely destroying yourself financially that is) it's best to go that route IF you have a reasonable chance of success. Now, I don' t know specifically what your doctor thinks about this new protocol and if it will hopefully bring better results, but as long as that seems to be the case I'd seriously consider another round.

Unless you have a proven clotting disorder I would have you either take a much lower dose of aspirin or even discontinue it completely. It may have thinned your blood TOO much, which (even tho doctors are not yet aware of this risk and may possibly pooh-pooh it) can be just as negative for implantation as having your blood be too thick. You are thin and vegetarian, you very likely already have quite thin blood and daily aspirin may have overwhelmed the ability of your blood to clot after the baby implanted. this may have been exacerbated by your prenatal (which is why I'd like to check the brand, to see if there are any ingredients that may have caused your blood to have trouble clotting) I would take the aspirin 3x a week and see if you have better results with that (and for swaying I'll have you discontinue it all together.)

What prenatals were you taking?

Let's have you skip fiber. Your BMI is already below my cutoff and I don't want you to alose any more weight .
Additionally, since IVF may still be on the table we do not want you to be running out of raw materials for your body to make hormones with.

I think there was an RN letter combo in your email address possibly and I got mixed up. Or maybe I just had your username crossed with someone else, it happens! At any rate in that case I'd recommend exercise. You don't NEED to do running and elliptical if that's too much for you, walking is also good.


That's not the type of cyst that indicates PCO and so I'd not worry about that. They generally test for PCOS during your pretesting and would have mentioned it. I still lwould like you on teh PCOS-type alternate diet as it's better for egg quality regardless, and you should check out the variation of the atomic fertility diet for people who may sway OR go IVF and haven't decided yet (it's here, six posts from the top https://genderdreaming.com/forum/gender-swaying-general-discussion/9052-swaying-under-special-circumstances-part-3-pcos.html)


No worries on donor eggs, they aren't right for eveeryone an d if you;'re not comfortable with it that's totally fine! Again, thank you so very much for your patientce, and sorry for the typos, my keyboard is freakin g out today!!

[Dreamingpinkafterblue]

Ok I am taking the one prescribed by my pcp from cvs, it is a low iron one but I am not really sure about other ingredients. How can I access that information?

Also I have stopped it since I wasn’t sure about sway or HT, but if HT route, should I take that?

I will take a note of what u said on aspirin

My doctor thinks that I might do better this time, but we have to wait and see. Hubby is not on board yet , he is really worried about it harming my body though I am trying to convince him big time. For some reason I felt more hopeful after coming here and the dr visit.

I have a complex cyst/chocolate cyst 30mm size on my left ovary, possibly endometrioma, any idea/experience that affecting ivf and /or implantation?

Also only my left ovary had responded to stimulation last tine, is there anything I could do to make it better?

I started taking coq10, dhea, folic acid and vitamin d, will that help?

Any idea what more questions I need to ask doctor to make sure get better output this time?

[atomic sagebrush]

If you give me the brand name I may be able to look it up. Otherwise I'd ask the pharmacist for the nutrient info.

Yes, if you are planning to do IVF you should continue the prenatal (or SOME prenatal!)

There is some variation month by month and there is a chance especially with a different protocol you will get better results.

What did the doc say about the cyst??? S/he would be better able to advise you on what that would mean for your IVF rounds than I am.

Are you taking DHEA under your doctor's supervision?? That is not something you should be going on without firstly having a proven NEED for it, and secondly, close monitoring. DHEA can be great for women who need it, but if your DHEA is already in normal range, you can raise your levels too high and end up with poor egg quality from having too high a testosterone level. Given your age, I would not take that withtout having had your DHEA levels tested before (and proven lower than normal) and also without having them tested along the way. This is VERY important so please come off the DHEA and discuss it with your doctor because taking it when you don't need it is worse than nothing.

[Dreamingpinkafterblue]

Thank you atomic! Sorry I took a break to clear my mind and back now!

Planning to do another cycle this April and trying to be a on a healthy diet and exercise regularly!

Doctor suggested a flare protocol this time? Do you have any experience / success story with that to keep my spirits up?

And thank you for the dhea advise I came of from it immediately after you said my doctor doesn’t suggest any supplements at all other than prenatals

[atomic sagebrush]

No not at all, remember it's not your job to get back to me, it's MY job to get back to you!

Awesome! Yes lots of people have success with a flare protocol after having had poor response previously.

Glad the info about DHEA was helpful!!!

Keep up the good work on diet and exercise! While that's much harder than just taking a supplement is, diet and exercise are FAR better at helping boost your chances of success! Good luck and keep us posted, let me know if you need any help!

[Dreamingpinkafterblue]

Posting here hoping to get some advise

Just wanted to have a quick word,

My second cycle egg retrieval is done and again this time also there were only 2 eggs ,and just one fertilized but still keeping hopes and spirit up, I should know the results in another 2 weeks

But just to see if things don’t go as I wish for, then wanted to see what should be my next best step? I remember atomic, you have mentioned about fertility drugs swaying pink so should I be trying may be in next cycle itself while the medication still on my system? My diet has been off for couple of weeks now with all the stress from ivf :( though my bmi is still 20 and I am following vegetarian diet. Is it better try immediately (of course after PGT results and I hope for the best) next cycle may be try one attempt at positive OPK or wait and follow diet and exercise for another 9 weeks and then try? At this point I am trying to find peace with accept what come May!

Appreciate your help

[atomic sagebrush]

So when you say you're following a vegetarian diet, can you give me more info about that? People are often eating many more carbs when going vegetarian (unless being quite careful with diet overall) and that may have a negative effect on egg quality.

I honestly can't say what is better, TTC right away with the meds in your system, or waiting for time on diet and off prenatals and other supps. I just don't have a large enough sample size to know (and it may vary by individual anyway based on overall nutrient intake)

I am hoping and praying that this little eggo is THE EGG!

[Dreamingpinkafterblue]

I am a vegetarian since birth and egg occasionally in the form of cookies, cakes etc . I eat Asian/Indian food regularly so yes rice, curries and wheat a lot. Lots of vegetables and lentils as well. But I have switched to brown rice and multigrain to follow the Pcos le diet but has been out of it for couple of weeks. I don’t take sweet other than in my morning coffee and occasional sweet treats

I am really hoping that egg is the egg too!just wish me lots and lots of luck!!!!

But can’t think of what should I plan next in case things take a different turn, I know my husband says I have to take one day at a time but I just need some plan b in mind to get through this tough time ( I am always like that who finds some peace of mind through having a plan b)

Just curious if I want to follow diet strictly and do it ( I want to get a personal plan this time and follow it ) will anything like clomid/femara can help? Also I read one of ur posts about the hole in condom method, is that still a sway tactic?

[atomic sagebrush]

Oh great, that's good to hear. You would of course be already used to that style of diet and it sounds as if you are a very healthy-style vegetarian What happens sometimes is when people have poor results with IVF rounds, they'll switch to a dramatically different diet. Some people go "vegetarian" and what they do is simply start eating a lot of refined carbs and very low protein, and you are not doing that. Carry on, just wanted to be sure!

Yes that's true of so many of us who have boys - we like to have Plans B-Z waiting in the wings! I would love to make you a personal plan, and we can figure out some good macros for your diet that should help with both egg quality and your sway.

Absolutely Clomid or Femara would help. They help both odds of conception and with chances of pink.

Hole in the condom is something we had to drop fairly early on. People weren't getting pregnant with it, and then we had several "blowouts" where people experienced a total failure of the condom. Since it was also very stressful in that control-freakish way that may undermine your chances anyway...it takes a lot of planning ahead, last minute worries, and stress between hubby and wife to pull it off and it's really best to try to avoid things that cut odds of conception and increase control freakishness (not to mention can go dramatically wrong!)

[Dreamingpinkafterblue]

Hey update my ivf this time also ddnt work out :( so back to swaying option! I have posted my swaying plan in the review swaying plan private forum! please see if you can take a look!

[atomic sagebrush]

Bump it if I didn't, I think I clicked on it when I was away from home and it was longer than I could get through right then.