Ovulation help!

[Mum of four monkeys]

Hi atomic,

I appreciate I am about to ask a lot of questions so feel free to take your time in answering or I’m happy to buy a plan if you think I need more help than you can offer here.

So since my MC in November, I can’t seem to work out if I’ve really ovulated or not. I get the fade in and outs, smiley on the day of highest surge (I don’t temp) but may start. I’m 11 months pp and still breastfeeding so am keen to get things moving before my milk supply dwindles now my baby is approaching 1 and for those reasons I’m doing the alternate diet again . When I had my last baby I was over weight from a previous birth which I hadn’t lost and medication I was taking back then (domperidone) so I had a lot to lose..around 14kg and I’ve managed to lose 11.

I wonder if I might not actually be ovulating because of poor diet or if we are just unlucky in not catching each month (I know you won’t possibly know if I’m ovulating or not) but if we are thinking about diet, I’ve lost 24 pounds since May, my Bmi is currently 22.2 but I was not meeting the minimum for cals I was averaging around 1300-1500 (I know this is not recommended and has been unintentional) and I was just about meeting the protein minimum some days (but I was getting 50-60g of fat) I have now increased to around 1700 but I’m tying not to count and obsess but consume more of what I was missing.
Some days it’s just been a case of forgetting to eat or just having a full on day but also habit because when I started my weight loss journey, I was actually putting on lots of weight at 1800 cals
So my question is, could this likely be a factor? I mean I’m not underweight by any means but the lack of protein (some days) and cals? Or could it be a hormonal issue after recently having a MC? I’ve always been super fertile (hence all the boys) and I’ve been smaller and still ovulated on this kind of diet before but it almost seems like I’m not actually ovulating or we are just not timing it correctly. We have tried one attempt at first peak, one at second (which was probably no good) and even had two attempts one month accidentally and still nothing. Just to add, from may I was doing X3 60 mins of exercise per week at 1800 cals but not losing much until I dropped some cals at which point I slowed down the exercise and have now stopped since November. If I’m doing 1700 do I need to start exercise again or forget it for now to make sure I’m getting what I need to feed and function/regulate everything again? My cycle is usually 32 days and DH is 36- no supplements I’m 34 and take 1 iron supplement 2-3 times a week as I’m low, but not anaemic anymore.

[atomic sagebrush]

Well, the plans are what enables me to do this as a job so if you appreciate my help, buying a plan is a great way to allow me to make a living while helping you and others!

Actually I can tell with about 99% certainty (if not more) that you're ovulating. If you're getting your period, and it's coming fairly regularly, the odds are all but 100% that you are ovulating. If you weren't ovulating, then your period wouldn't come. This is even MORE certain if you're getting a smiley at the appropriate time midcycle. I'm sorry I can't quite work out what you're saying with all that - you are getting a smiley meaning a positive OPK, right? And about when it should come? - I mean, your period is arriving about 14 -15 days after your solid smiley?

So if we eliminate that you aren't ovulating, I am assuming what you're actually asking me here is why you haven't conceived yet, right?

Based on what you describe, and the fact that your BMI is still in a good zone, and that you're eating enough fat, I ~doubt~ that this is diet related. (and if your cycle is fairly regular, and you have a 12-14 day LP, it is not going to be related to diet stuff)

Much much much more likely is that you're doing things that are inadvertently cutting odds of conception. Can you give me more information about OTHER things like shallow release, jellies or douches, antihistamines, jump and dump, hot baths, that sort of thing? Those are the things that prevent conception far more often than diet does.

I absolutely recommend exercise, because it's a great sway tactic. You can eat a bit more to compensate if you need to but for best chance of pink you will exercise. It is really a step in the wrong direction to drop exercise when you want a girl.

What I would have you do now is to switch to e4d to ensure you're covered all the month through. Start having sex, unprotected, every 72 hours or so (it does not need to be to those hours exactly, that's just how you count hte days), after your period ends and carrying on thru till when your next cycle begins. That way if you're getting those positive OPK at the wrong time of month you will be covered in case of early or late ovulation.

[Mum of four monkeys]

Thank you for your response.
I will take a look at the plans.

Yes, periods are fairly regular and yes, you’re correct. a positive opk is what I meant (smiley) with a 13 day LP.

Ahhh ok! I’m starting to get the picture. Absolutely no jellies, douches, antihistamines, hot baths or anything like that. I’m not doing shallow release (but may have done on occasion) But I have jumped and dumped some of the time.

Yes I’ve officially started exercising again. I only really stopped due to the MC which was incomplete until end of November then I got lazy but I’m back on it now.

e4d sounds like a good plan.

[atomic sagebrush]

Yes then it sounds to me like you are ovulating just fine!

I would have you guys go to e4d in the 72 hour pattern now. It may simply be that having an attempt at peak or the second peak is just not working and you need to change it up. So after your period ends, I'd start having unprotected sex in that "Monday, Thursday" pattern (just any time that day! and it does not have to be THOSE days particularly but that's how you count the days) and continue on till you're certain you've ovulated, even if that means going all the way thru till the next cycle begins!!

I would drop shallow release completely and extend the length of time you're J and D five minutes more than you HAVE been doing. So if you weren't doing it at all, go to five minutes. If you were doing it for five minutes, go to ten. And then if we don't get lucky this month, we'll just add on another five minutes, etc.

[Mum of four monkeys]

Thank you, That sounds great.
To be honest I’ve not intentionally done shallow release I just aware some of the positions air more on that side of things and J&D I’ve only really done when I’ve been desperate for a wee 😂 so definitely not every time.

Would you mind clarifying what positions fall under shallow release please

[atomic sagebrush]

Shallow release is when people DELIBERATELY as a sway tactic, are having their husbands pull out to the far edge of the VJ when delivering the payload, LOL. If you're not doing that, then you arent' doing shallow release.

[Mum of four monkeys]

Thank you so much for clearing that up I actually thought it was certain positions that delivered the load further from the cervix. Lol
No we are not doing that and never have

[atomic sagebrush]

Nope, virtually all normal, run of the mill internal sex positions are good for conception. (exception might be some of the weirder moves from the Kama Sutra or whatever, LOL) but anything that is a typical sort of position has a great chance of ending with conception.

[Mum of four monkeys]

Lol 😂 Well that’s good to know.

[Mum of four monkeys]

Hi Atomic,
I basically wanted to come back and update you but also because I need help again. :nails:

So I actually fell pregnant a month later, after this thread in March and went on to have a baby girl! :ballerina: so a huge thank you to you once again!

We actually decided to try again this year but unfortunately had a MC ( with a SCH - which IÂ’ve never had in previous pregnancies) two weeks ago. Interestingly, I was adding a spoon of cinnamon to my smoothie for 6w prior so I do wonder if that was a contributing factor from what IÂ’ve just glossed over on the site.
Anyway, Everything has changed since the last few times IÂ’ve TTC and thatÂ’s where I need your help.

IÂ’ve probably lost 10kg in weight over the last 2 yrs but most specifically in the last 6 months or so. IÂ’m not BF anymore which I do believe has swayed for me in the past.
DH has just started a daily 50mg dose of Zoloft for anxiety and after reading some studies I believe this can affect sperm health 72 days+ after starting. And heÂ’s smoking and consuming energy drinks. So I wondered about OLE for him or anything else he can take to optimise his health but not sway to far blue? ( I know IÂ’m asking a lot )
IÂ’ve been loosely following the LE diet but I was a hungry hungry woman with the most recent pregnancy. But my weight is on the lower side of where I have previously been. But I am going to go back to vegan foods as that was most beneficial to my body when I was on it previously.

So I guess the areas I need help in is tweaking my diet ( but I do have a good understanding of it by now) but just need to make sure I actually hold steady and donÂ’t lose on it as that may affect ovulation.my current BMI is 20.2 I think IÂ’m good with attempts as previously discussed.
But I did have a few questions about the MC and if itÂ’s a good idea to wait a cycle before trying for uterus lining purposes or dating? Which doesnÂ’t seem to be as important in my opinion? I opted for the medical management as my body hadnÂ’t recognised there was an issue with growth ( 9w3d) but was in the very early stages of development with an inadequate fetal pole. I had a few surges that month so not sure if it was bad egg quality by the time I did ovulate ( on third attempt I believe) and possibly the weight loss. but thereÂ’s no way of knowing any of that.
IÂ’m eager to not hang around given my husbandÂ’s new medication but will if I need that extra time to heal.

Also is it possible to ovulate whilst still having low levels of HCG in your system or does my body need to reset back to zero to kickstart fertility again? Lots of conflicting info online but most say no?
IÂ’ve started temping and am a regular with OPKÂ’s but IÂ’m starting to get twinges and a gradual darkening of line so do know this could be a false positive but am interested in your thoughts on this?

Also is it a stab in the dark to try now DH is on that medication ( it is the lower dose) but do you think our chances are much much slimmer now? Or would it be wiser to wait until he is off it? We have no idea when he will as itÂ’s a trial and if it doesnÂ’t work heÂ’ll likely have to wean off over a period of time. CouldnÂ’t find any info on this site or others about it as most indicate ED issues or not being able to finish which isnÂ’t a problem for him. But nothing on if itÂ’s still
Possible to become pregnant when partner is on it. He wonÂ’t/canÂ’t change anything on his side except add a supplement if needed.
IÂ’m slightly lacking in iron so on a low supplement 60mg x3 times a week
IÂ’m also on folic acid but maybe not taking enough.
In the past I did the alternate diet which had great results for me and seemed to work best with my body even though I donÂ’t have any GD or pcos diagnosis so would probably stick with that.

After reading all of that, if thereÂ’s anything else you can think of that will point us in the right direction that would be most helpful.

Once again thank you for everything that you do :agree:

[treens]

Wishing you all the best!!!!

[Mum of four monkeys]

:pray:

[atomic sagebrush]

Oh wow, thanks for updating us! So sorry to hear of your loss.

I can't ever know the causes for a loss. That sounds chromosomal and not related to an SCH the way you're describing it - in an SCH related loss, I expect to see a gestationally normal baby, possibly but not always a bit small but appropriately developed, that passes away. That having been said the cinnamon was at least somewhat at fault in causing the SCH. Cinnamon is extremely powerful stuff and I do not have most of my swayers use it - only people with severe PCOS and/or 30-50 lbs to spare. Those who do use minuscule amounts. So I would definitely advise against doing that when TTC and never use more than dietary amounts during pregnancy. Given your weight there is no reason for you to be eating any more than just whatever you normally eat.

He's welcome to take OLE but I don't think it helps anyone's sway really. I think you're overthinking the Zoloft - we have plenty of men fathering babies while on Zoloft even with other unhealthy lifestyle things. I certainly wouldn't start adding in a bunch of fertility boosters unless you are looking at a sperm analysis result that had a low count. Zoloft actually tends to sway pink in men. I'm not sure if you're asking me if your chances of sway success are better (very likely yes) or if your odds of conception are terribly low (no, most people get pregnant with no issues even when their hubbies have been on Zoloft a long time) but there you have it.

What did your doctor say about when it's ok to try again?? For swaying purposes we like to see you guys try very quickly, but ONLY inasmuch as you have your doctor's approval. Most doctors will advise waiting one cycle after a D and C, but if you had a different type of management and it was uncomplicated, you may be able to try again sooner. I can't answer that from here - we need their advice on that. There is absolutely NO reason to "wait a cycle for dating purposes". That was always BS and it's even more ridiculous nowadays when we have ultrasound machines.

I definitely want you on our alternate diet with your history of being a little higher in weight than you are now. Be aware that being vegan will be higher in carbohydrates. I actually prefer to see people continue with dairy and eggs on the alt. diet so they don't go overboard with carbs, but you need to do what feels right to you.

I would suggest 1200-1600 mcg (that is micrograms, not milligrams) of folic acid taken daily, you can split it up into smaller doses 3-4 times a day, it's best used that way.

[Mum of four monkeys]

Wow! Thank you so much for taking the time to get back to me with all that info!
I definitely won’t be going anywhere near cinnamon again :drama:
And chromosomal is probably more likely as you said given the explanation you’ve just given and is what the gyne thought too.

How interesting that Zoloft sways pink and plenty of men go on to father children on it. All the info online gave me dyer statistics of it affecting dna fragmentation, motility and count! But with your experience on this site, thats very reassuring to hear.

I did end up having a D&C in December due to retained products. They said I could wait 2 weeks before trying if I felt ready in which we had an attempt and BFN. I do hope that’s just my body getting back to normal and not hubby! How long would be a reasonable time frame to ttc for before thinking about a sperm analysis? Like 6 months?

Also, when I had the D&C they noted I had one simple cyst on one ovary and one septated cyst on the other ( which is seemingly my dominant ovary I ovulate from most months/previous pregnancies)
Would this likely have an affect on ovulation and fertility on my behalf? I’ve never been diagnosed or thought to have pcos or endo unless it’s just popped up now. And never previously had a septated one, just simple cysts and they were only in the first few weeks of pregnancy. I’d be so cautious to take anything to boost ovulation as that can encourage them to grow is that correct? But might be my egg quality or hormones are out of whack either due to that or recent MC. I did take 3 cycles after the last one, to have my last girl so I’m trying to remain positive as it’s still early days. I am awaiting a scan for more info on the cysts but it did get me thinking could the septated one be reaking havoc with my hormones somehow? Again not much info from DR. My last ovulation two weeks ago ( if I did in fact ovulate) felt like it does every cycle. But I’m not sure after previous MC I ovulated first cycle anyway taking the Zoloft out of the equation. I did attempt to temp but lost the monitor at OV so couldn’t get a clear picture of temps after. I also use Lh strips as previously and all looked good on that front. So many different variables now so do find myself over thinking it all :(
But hopefully onto the next cycle. I won’t be doing vegan or adding different foods to the mix as it just gets way too stressful and confusing so thanks for that advice and all of it really.
If you can navigate my ramblings, I’d be interested to hear your thoughts.

Many thanks x

[atomic sagebrush]

It had gone into moderation, I approved it for you.

The Internet always focuses on worst case scenarios but we've had a lot of guys on it and fathering children.

If you can afford it, just to rule it out I'd probably have it done sooner rather than later. Not because it will necessarily prove anything is amiss, but just so you know what is going on. Waiting 6 months is fine, too - totally at your discretion.

So did you get your period after believing you had ovulated? If you got your period then you probably did ovulate and just didn't catch the egg.

Simple cysts are NBD, people get those all the time. The septated cyst may need to be biopsied - what did they say about it? I can't really sound off on that aspect because I am not an ultrasound tech. It may be that it looked fine to them and will resolve but as a general rule septated cysts are biopsied to rule out anything more serious (rare, but always possible, so please don't be scared, we just want to rule out anything bad). They will be able to tell you more after the followup scan.

The appearance of cysts with PCOS is very distinctive and that is not what you're describing here. They would have mentioned it if they thought PCOS.

Cysts can inhibit ovulation. That is how they would negatively effect fertility. I'm not really sure what you're asking me about them wreaking havoc with your hormones. In most cases cysts resolve on their own and then everything works out just fine.

Yes, unless your doctor advises you differently, it's best not to take Clomid or Femara with an ovarian cyst.

[atomic sagebrush]

Oops, I missed a question

Yes please have hubby do regular release every 2-4 days to ensure he has a good level of healthy sperm. No abstain or daily release.

[Mum of four monkeys]

Thank you for clarifying release days. I don’t think I’d want to overwhelm DH with an analysis just yet as he hates any kind of additional stress and pressure when it comes to ttc. So I think that is enough for me to know there is every possibility that it may not affect his swimmers to the point that it was completely impossible. And we can always revisit that in 6 months if no luck & everything seems good my side. He is on the lowest dose so said he would prefer to try a male conception vitamin first. Not sure if there is any affect on sperm health if that would make a difference or not?

So not a period exactly! It started off as strong twinges in my side then just spotting really so I thought okay AF is starting. but definitely not a normal flow or duration. Then Today ( 5 days later) I decided To do a LH test as I was a little suspicious as AF seems to have virtually disappeared, along with the pains I was having and sometimes get before AF. and there is a line but it’s not positive. So maybe my body is gearing/geared back up for ovulation if it didn’t happen over 2 weeks ago. Or it’s a cyst LH/confusion thing going on. I’m sure I’ll find out at some point.

So when they told me about the S cyst they didn’t seem overly worried but said it should be checked by gyne to see if and how they wanted to proceed anyway as there was a 3mm single division which I think is borderline. When I had a little look online ( shakes own head in disappointment) I did see some info saying complex ones related to endo or pcos can affect fertility but most of the info was kind of just generic saying it doesn’t affect fertility or hormones otherwise. It’s confusing as the DR knew we were intending to get back to ttc but I wasn’t advised not to due to the S cyst and nothing was mentioned about it possibly inhibiting fertility or that I should be mindful or careful about it. ( I know that might not be the case but I hope if they were worried they would have at least advised that) I guess the gyne DR will look over everything and if a biopsy is required, ttc would need to take a back seat I imagine.

The scan I have, in around a weeks time, was ordered by my GP because I started having some very very strong twinge type pains in that area/side, nausea & bloating. just over a week ago, coinciding with the spotting ( a day or so before actually) So she wants to see if there’s any changes in advance of my gyne referral ( no appointment yet) Incase she needs to bring it forward. hopefully the scan should at least shed some light. But no mention of pcos looking ovaries last time and I’m hoping all has/will resolve on its own asap.

[atomic sagebrush]

Ok I totally understand.

The conception vitamins may sway somewhat blue in theory, but in reality nothing men have done (aside from smoking and jogging/biking) has been proven to add a whole lot to the sway. If you want, you can try a Men's One a Day over 50 vitamin, 1000 mg carnitine, and 500 mg arginine. This is a cheap way to get the benefits of the super expensive fertility supplements without getting a lot of the herbal junk and megadose vitamins (which are worse than nothing).

If you didn't get your period when you expected, then this "ovulation" was not, in fact, an ovulation. Sometimes you can have things that seem like an ovulation but aren't, and because the hormones in a false O are very similar you'll have the symptoms and everything. Be aware that you can still ovulate as you're describing so you may still be in it to win it this month.

The cyst you are describing doesn't sound like either endo or PCOS. Those things are distinctive altho sometimes they miss them and have to do more testing. You do need to see your gyno to rule out anything serious/scary. This is not because it will mess up your fertility but because it could indicate a very slim chance of cancer and we don't want to mess around with that. Don't panic, but don't put it off. I suspect because they were chill about it, that it didn't look cancerous but if it does need to be biopsied it might be better to have that done before you get pregnant. It very well may be the case that you have a followup scan and it's totally gone.

[Mum of four monkeys]

Thank you so much for all that and your prompt reply!
Thanks re:recommendation of vitamin. WeÂ’ll look at it for next month ( I know they donÂ’t work straight away due to how S production works etc)

I do still hope IÂ’m in with a chance this month. My fingers are tightly crossed.
I did just have one question about LH surges. and I feel pretty silly for not even knowing the answer to this because I have been testing with them for maybe 20years! But IÂ’ve just never had this happen before. So I seem to be going from almost positive or dark lines in the Am to very faint in the PM ( urine not anymore diluted than the morning I would say) even in the past if it was a little diluted it never really changed the result. If there was a surge IÂ’d always detect it and if there wasnÂ’t I wouldnÂ’t. Just wondering what would be the reason for the inconsistencies in the testing? ( light-morning, dark-afternoon ) dark- morning then light afternoon. Or dark one day, light the next day. but never quite positive (accept what I thought was two weeks ago) for reference, IÂ’m testing twice a day. if my body doesnÂ’t get around to ovulating properly would I get a delayed/early period or no period at all?! IÂ’m sure the months IÂ’ve believed I havenÂ’t ovulated, I may have had a slightly earlier period.

Yes, not pcos or endo from my understanding.
I do hope that is the case when I have the scan but yeah, IÂ’m aware of the risk of C so hope this gyno doesn’t take too long to get me in the door if need be.

EDIT: both cysts have now gone! �� the relief is huge! Still no sign of ovulation having happened or approaching on the scan. But it’s been noted ‘ The endometrium appears distended with homogenous
avascular material’ but I’m not sure what that means in relation to ttc! Also, the vits you recommended may possibly cause bloating and nausea? I don’t think he’d stay on them if that was the case. He found a generic one called well man conception which contains both of those two but in minimal amounts and a lot of other stuff too. Thoughts? Not worth it and just go with the two? ( L arginine + L carnitine )