Swaying again after my successful 2020 sway

[Kiwimaz]

I had a custom plan in 2019 & had our 1st girl after 3 boys end of 2020 (thank you Atomic!!!). We are looking to sway again to give our little girl a sister.
Has anything changed in the tactics the last 2yrs?
I'm not on any contraception but we A: don't DTD alot cz well we have 4 kids & B: use other ways to avoid pregnancy but IF we had a whoops I'd kinda like to be on a lighter fat & protein diet now. We're ok with pink or blue but for our daughter & ease with things in the house pink would be great!
My weight is currently 57.5kg & I was 54.5kg when I concieved my daughter. I don't feel like I have much wiggle room so I guess my other question is how should I mostly maintain my weight while reining in my protein & fat... I'm kinda back to my boy mom steak & cheese diet [emoji39]
Looking to ideally fall preg in September but probably start trying July as my cycles usually run 6wks (PCOS). I'm 38 next month.

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[treens]

Hi!!! We will also be trying for a Girl soon after a successful boy sway in 2021.

What did you do for your girl sway last time?

[atomic sagebrush]

No, we haven't changed anything because our results have been quite consistent. Now, you may have been doing things in your sway that were different and I'm happy to go over that if you'd like. I would def. have you on the alternate PCOS-type diet (which is healthier overall anyway) But just try to hold steady on weight so you don't waste away to nothing!

[Kiwimaz]

Thank you Atomic that would be awesome. Did you want to do that in this thread?

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[atomic sagebrush]

Yes absolutely, hit me!

[Kiwimaz]

Hi!!! We will also be trying for a Girl soon after a successful boy sway in 2021.

What did you do for your girl sway last time?

Hey I changed ALOT about my diet especially and also frequency of unprotected sex. If you follow this thread I'll post what I did :)

[Kiwimaz]

Yes absolutely, hit me!

Ok so I'm 38 shortly and hubby will be 37 this year but we do seem to have high fertility as we have got preg first time with all but my daughter, which was second time (& I think I used acijel that cycle duh).

Last sway I did the Pcos LE and did the max protein and fat allowance usually as it was still way less than my usual. I used myfitnesspal to track allowances very religiously but not obsessively if that makes sense.

We did one attempt at ovulation and I didn't have any unprotected sex since the cycle before we started trying (ended up conceiving 0-3). Pretty sure hubby was left to just do what he wanted around that.

I did only cardio (no weights like with my boys) but usually only 30min sessions 3 or 4 days a week due to time constraints and not keeping weight on.

Was on metformin 3x day and took Femara (Femara may not be an option this time but I am on Met again).

I was recently prescribed estrogen patches and micronised progesterone for hormonal/mood difficulties.
Do you think this will sway? I'm hoping the 25mg patch won't stop ovulation and I can use the progesterone after I O (she wouldn't prescribe the patch without progesterone) although its pretty pointless anyway then. Its really for if I stop ovulating. She said to stop the patch if I fall preg and the progesterone it didn't matter either way. Obviously if I stop ovulating I'll have to put the patch aside anyway.

I cut way way back on suppplements. I was a long time user of vitamins, oil supps and probiotics. From memory I took zinc/thorne pic mins and a probiotic 3x a week and just folate daily. I do have trouble with depression and fatigue when my zinc level isn't maintained and vit C also helps with this by depressing copper.
I currently take 500mg/day vit c. I take 1/4 of a b complex tablet I probably need to stop for pink. Have also had iron and b12 injections in the last few months.

With my diet I did cut way back on dairy as I'm a big dairy eater and felt that may have been a factor with my boys. I used some dairy free alternatives but all within daily limits.

I loosened up heaps on being pedantic about using natural cleaners and body care products etc and embraced my feminine side more by wearing my skirts/dresses, painting my toenails, wearing my hair out etc.

I still have my data in myfitnesspal I went from 62kg to 54.5kg last time, this time I started at 62.5kg and have 3kg left to my daughter's conception weight (this hasn't been doing LE, its just coming off). I conceived my sons at around 58kg except for the 3rd where I hadn't lost all the baby weight yet.

So is there anything you'd change? Is there something I'm missing?
What does folate would you suggest? I'm taking iodine as well as we are really deficient over here.

[atomic sagebrush]

Oh gosh your new avatar!!! What a beauty!

So if you were on Femara, how do you know you conceived with an attempt O-3? Just curious.

100% continue with LE PCOS type. If there's any way to eat enough to keep weight on and up the exercise great, if you can't, then I like PCOSers to exercise even if they can't get up to the full amount cause the benefits to blood sugar control. You probably don't need to track so thoroughly this time.

I would not be using the patches with the hormones in them. I just do not think it's wise both for the sake of your sway, but also for keeping your cycle regular. If you do need to use these, you actually MUST use the progesterone, there's a reason why she gave them to you it's because your body is going to get incredibly screwed up just using estrogen alone. You're meant to be higher in estrogen and then higher in progesterone and we don't want one to happen without the other.

I would rather see you do just the zinc and C and not the picmins if you feel u must continue with zinc. There is quite a lot of chromium and Boron in there, I'm not certain that is safe.

Are you actually low in B12 and iron or is this just something someone has recommended? The rules are different when you're actually low in things. We may want you to continue the B vitamins in some pattern or another.

Fine to take iodine if you need it. I actually give quite a lot of people iodine.

Can you tell me in terms of BMI how your weight went while swaying?? KG alone doesn't help me without knowing your BMI or your height.

I don't suggest brands, just any folate that you can get easily and is a name brand you trust is fine. As long as it doesn't have lots of other added ingredients.

[Kiwimaz]

Hey yes I was low in B12 & particularly iron. I had a moderate PPH with my daughter & its taken ages to restore my levels but my last draw was 54 so I won't be having anymore iron unless it gets down to 20. B12 at my discretion although with metformin they will monitor it when checking my iron quarterly.

Re the patches- ok I hear you. It's for PMDD, the other options were patches plus Mirena, patches plus cryptocerone (sp?) acetate, zoladex or hysterectomy with ovectomy lol. Not many are compatible with TTC which is one of the reasons I was given Femara last time to hurry things along. I already ovulated this cycle, I'm wondering I give the treatment a go next cycle too, so I know if it helps PMDD, then put it aside to TTC. I dont know yet if the patch will stop me ovulating at that low dose. If it does I guess there's always Femara [emoji6] I do have signs of low estrogen, probably due to PCOS but my 7 day post O progesterone draws have always been stellar.

My question with folate was around the dose sorry- should I take 800mcg? Mine is folinic acid drops, 1 drop 400mcg.

I knew the 0-3 because I was being monitored on Femara with ultrasound, using OPKs & temping. Then had an early scan with my NIPT which put baby at the age fertility friend said - although I'll admit I felt by my signs I O'd one or two days earlier than my crosshairs but FF is almost never wrong for me.

I'm 166cm tall so
58kg is BMI of 21
54kg is BMI of 19.6

I would still track protein & fat intake I think because honestly, sometimes I'm sure I'd eat double the allowance on LE PCOS if just eating what I eat [emoji85]



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[atomic sagebrush]

Excellent! I have a lot of people who simply medicate themselves under assumptions with no proof they have need of those things. We can also do a maintenance dose which would be iron 2x a week and then daily during period, and B12 once a week, twice if you're not eating eggs and dairy very often or if you're feeling run down.

Ok. If it's a true medical need thing then go right ahead with the treatment. The rules are always different when people actually are in need of something.

I recommend 1200-1600 mcg folate or folic acid. Take this while swaying, then thru the whole first trimester of pregnancy and then wean off gradually by spacing doses further and further out till down to just the amount in a prenatal.

Brilliant! Thanks for letting me know how your O-3 was determined! I wish everyone had that level of specificity! I am inclined to agree with you that you likely Oed a day or two sooner because we have such dreadful conception rates with O-3 but we can't truly ever know for sure short of having an ultrasound right around O time.

Ok so I would have you just try to hold steady at BMI 21 and then if a couple extra lbs comes off over time that's no biggie. I'd not deliberately try to get to BMI 19.6 before holding steady, start trying to hold steady a bit sooner to prevent potentially losing too much weight.

It's fine to track as long as that works for YOU! Many people find that tracking too much just contributes to the "swaycession" feelings and makes them control freakish.

[Kiwimaz]

Thank you [emoji4]

Yes I read some research article once that did ultrasound with bbt charting & they concluded that it wasn't possible to pinpoint ovulation with bbt by up to 48hrs! It was valuable to confirm ovulation HAD happened but not extremely precisely when. I will say we concieved my DD when I felt er the friskiest & that's why we attempted cz my OPKs were sketchy. I never get a true + but they do get darker. Makes it tricky doing one attempt with PCOS cz I have false starts at O.

Re diet, I found last time I'd use up my fat & protein allowance then have say 100cals leftover, but nothing to eat that didn't add to my protein and fat except maybe rice crackers (I'm gluten intolerant) that are quite high GI. This might have contributed to the weight loss. If I'm on 1500mg met maybe it's not so crucial?

Hubby took OLE last time, would you still have him do that if willing?



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[Kiwimaz]

Also have you got stats on using hormones?
I know the pill sways pink but other forms no?
I have estrodot 25mcg & uterogestan 100mg I can either insert or take orally (inserting hopefully bypass the negative mood effects of progesterone for me).

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[atomic sagebrush]

Yes exactly!!! One temp or even two can always be a fluke in either direction, AND people also which is why the Natural Family Planning people use three high temps to prove ovulation.

But feeling frisky is definitely a good sign that O is coming!

What about fruit and veg?? That is my go to for PCOSers to add calories, because fruit and veg are free for protein and fat!

You are absolutely right, though, when you're on Metformin (and that's a fairly high dose) the rules are different and you can generally tolerate more carbs.

Another thing we can consider is simply increasing your protein and/or fat limits by 5 g to 65 or even 70. Everyone is a bit different and some people simply need a bit more to make it thru the day.

OLE is fine if he'd like to take it, personally I'm far from convinced it does anything but it doesn't seem to HURT anything either!

[atomic sagebrush]

There are so few people who have used them that I haven't kept stats on hormone use, sorry. I generally try to discourage it because the way they're suggested to be used on the old school sway sites really drastically interferes with ovulation (they're using progesterone in the follicular phase, which shuts O down cold). There are a few people who have needed estrogen along with Clomid or injectables, but again we're adding variables with that that would simply confuse matters.

Inserting the progesterone is more effective and I don't recommend the oral route.

[Kiwimaz]

Thank you x

I took EPO (plus omega 3 to balance) with my boys & dropped it for my girl but in your essay on fats it suggests EPO may be ok for pink. Could I take it 3x a wk or would you have me drop it?

Yes I read alot of people having ART are prescribed patches to thicken their lining. Some stats on that & gender would be handy!

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[atomic sagebrush]

I do not feel we have the information to draw a conclusion about EPO. I myself and several others did get boys while taking it, but we have also seen a lot of girls conceived to blue swayers taking high doses (and high doses are also not safe for anyone to take because it can thin the blood). Thus, I don't feel good about recommending it to anyone at this point. Just use canola or other vegetable oils for cooking and cut back on intake of things that are very rich in Omega 3 (like fish oil supplements)

Well, when using ART there are lots and lots of other variables that people are doing and so that data is not reliable or useful. It would only mislead, because they're taking medication, using various methods to wash the sperm, are often doing ICSI or IUI, and in most cases are doing everything possible to boost fertility, including taking various supplements that we are not taking. I do not think that data is helpful and would only add a lot of confusion to what we're doing here.

[Kiwimaz]

Yes I thought about that afterwards, there's so many other variables for people having treatment.

Thank you, I'll wean off the EPO. I won't get DH doing anything but the one attempt. He's not that motivated this time, wanting a more 'natural' feel to it all.

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[Kiwimaz]

Hey we have been having a chat about having an attempt this cycle as the end of the year fits well with our household. Planning on doing 1 attempt only like last time.
Re exercise- it's summer here so there's been good hard walks but nothing structured like X days a week. But, as a Mum I'm on my feet all day except maybe 30mins to eat & occasionally an hour of admin. Does this count?
Re diet & weight, my BMI has dropped 2 points in the last 4mths from 22.5-20.5. I haven't been trying hard or tracking, just more exercise, less treats, less snacking, smaller portions etc. Last of baby weight coming off.
I think some girl diet things have stuck like having smaller meat portions & being less afraid of carbs (at least low GI ones). I would estimate my last few months fat intake around 60-65g & protein 70-75g before going back on diet properly this month. I'm not feeling hungry on the diet like I did when swaying last time which suggests to me it's not a big change.
Anyway, all this being said, weight loss like I mention that wasn't strictly LE PCOS but not too far from it (definitely not paleo or low carb), will that still sway pink?
Trying to weigh up attempting this cycle or delaying 2 more for more time on diet proper. But that does then put us Feb/March due.

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[atomic sagebrush]

While I don't count it as exercise (because if I did, it's a slippery slope kind of thing and I'd have people saying they did exercise when they really didn't, and were only just busy with day to day child care) we do count people who are literally on their feet working hard for 8-10 hours a day (like nurses, factory workers, waitresses, that sort of thing) as having exercised. Just keep in mind that exercise works, and is important, so it's best to actually do exercise, but if you truly can't due to working very long hours, then it's ok. But only you can decide if you really DID that. I've just seen too many people tell me they decided not to exercise because they "chased the kids around all day" and get opposites doing that, so I can't sign off on it for anyone, have to toss the decision back to you guys.

That's why I prefer to see people track at least somewhat, because weight loss can sneak up on you. It's fine if you prefer not to, just be sure you're eating enough to keep weight stable from here on.

Any changes you make in your diet in a more pink friendly direction will sway. I HAD to make the LE Diet guidelines simply to prevent people from starving themselves (which they did without guidelines) but as long as you've moved in a direction of less, that sways pink.

First and foremost use what is right for you and your family as a guide. If you need to try right now, do! If that's what is best, do. Because people do all this stuff and still get opposites, or go for it and have success, and there's no way to know for sure if waiting is good or if going for it is good, because we can't know what the opposite decision would have brought with it!

[Kiwimaz]

Thank you Atomic yeah I do think I'm really quite active (& we have 2 stories with living upstairs & laundry downstairs [emoji28]) but I wouldn't think its as pink as when I was exercising swaying for my DD, but probably pinker than when I concieved my boys which was office work plus gym or breastfeeding/pumping quite a bit and gym (& the breastfeeding appetite).
I'd rather exercise going forward but don't really want to stop ovulating (Femara did cost alot cz of the monitoring) so I guess it's deciding how hard we want to sway.
All that said, there's no guarantee of falling straight away, so by the time I did I might have more pink diet & exercise clocked!

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[atomic sagebrush]

Yep. You're the best judge of how much exercise you're getting. If you think it counts, then it does.

[Kiwimaz]

So we've decided to stop preventing from this cycle (eeeek)... qq we've bn using lifestyles ultra natural for lube, I recall using sylk with DD (or possibly nothing). Any suggestions here if using anything?

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[atomic sagebrush]

For a pink sway, just avoid anything that's marketed as 'sperm safe' or 'conception friendly'. The lubes really haven't worked well, even tho I do keep them in the mix for those who want them.

[Kiwimaz]

I don't have crosshairs on my chart yet but pretty confident I Ovd yesterday. Had a pos OPK the day before but that day would've made it an E3D pattern after the previous BD so we DTD yesterday... attempts O-3 & day of O. Not my preferred timing but see how we go! No ewcm to speak of this month.

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[atomic sagebrush]

Let's not call it an "every 3 day" pattern. It's too confusing. We need to stick to the terminology where the method is "every 4 days" and then we do that either in the 72 or 96 hour pattern (or Mon/Thurs slash Mon/Fri whatever's easier to understand.) People just seem to count e3d and e4d and e5d all different ways so we can never be sure what people are talking about.

So what you're saying is this - the e4d pattern, you ~think~ (because we can't be totally sure you ovulated when you think) fell on O-3 and O Day. You chose not to add an attempt at first pos OPK (which, I agree, you should not have added an attempt! You did exactly right) because it would have messed up the e4d pattern. :agree: 100% you did exactly as I would have had you do this month.

I also want to urge you to continue on with the e4d pattern a couple more rounds to guard against delayed O. OPK can be false positives, and even symptoms can be misleading, so let's just carry on with that at least 2 more rounds and possibly longer.

Good luck and pink dust headed your way!

[Kiwimaz]

Nope didn't O! Day 22 & seeing a little ewcm so it'll be within the next week I'd say.
When I say e4d I mean bd then abstain for 3 days, then bd, then abstain for 3 days etc right? Cz I have wondered if we should do 4 days off between attempts. In any event I don't think OPKs are good for me I kinda feel blah when I see a negative even though it's totally not rational.

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[atomic sagebrush]

Yes, so like Monday, Thursday. That is e4d in the "72 hour" pattern. There's also e4d in the "96 hour" pattern where you'd have sex Mon/Fri instead. (It does not need to be that set number of hours, it's how you count the DAYS). It's your choice. We have good result with the first option, but many people feel more comfortable starting off with the 96 hour pattern.

[Kiwimaz]

Hey so I'm CD28 & still havnt O'd, my cm is creamy with a small amount of stretch I don't think I'm peaking high enough to trigger O. I do occasionally O somewhere CD28-32 but haven't this late for a few months.
I am wondering this is down to the diet or the 25mcg estradot patch. I do tend to wanna intervene instead of being patient so let me know if I should just keep waiting! But if not, would you suggest stop the patch? Add eggs to my diet? Take vitex short term? Vitex works for me to bring back MIA ovulation but I don't like to use it after O as it exacerbates pms for me.
My weight is holding steady but I do feel like I'm eating alot of carbs (in all forms, fruit, vegetables & whole grains) in order to do that.

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[atomic sagebrush]

My guess is that it's from the patch. I would just continue waiting. DO NOT intervene. Vitex may have worked for you in the past but we've seen it make people's cycles go missing for months and since things are screwed up already I don't want to risk making them MORE screwed up if that makes sense.

Absolutely add in eggs!! 4-6 eggs a week is absolutely fine in the LE Diet.

Well, fruit, veg, and whole grains should be fine. Can you give me more info about what you're eating?? A lot of times people think they are eating more carbs than they actually are.

I don't recommend the patch in the first place of course so that would be the first thing I'd personally drop but use your gut instinct!

[Kiwimaz]

Usually for breakfast I have a piece of homemade gluten free toast (I use brown rice flour and lots of psyllium in this) and coffee.
morning tea usually 2 pieces of fruit
Lunch might be baked or air fry potato/sweet potato/pumpkin and salad with a little bit of cheese. Sometimes is leftovers so might mean rice & small amount of meat, or pulse pasta. Sometimes if I'm stuck its 2 pieces of toast with cheese, relish and salami.
Afternoon tea fruit or corn on the cob or corn chips if I'm slipping. Sometimes brown rice cakes with tzaziki (sp?) or similar.
Dinner usually has meat (counted) and rice or potato plus free veggies, only occasionally gf pasta.

I will quite often have pudding/supper (yoghurt, low fat ice cream, gf cookie) too as I'll have heaps of cals left in my allowance and 5g of protein and/or fat to play with. I use my fitness pal so I guess when that notifies me I've gone over 200g carbohydrate I feel a bit like eeek as I used to be a die-hard low carber!

Reading through this it seems like I snack alot still like a boy-Mum but I ate like this with my daughter too, maybe as I'm on metformin was ok. I'd find I'd never eat enough calories if I didn't have the snacks.

[atomic sagebrush]

Do you have totals for fat, protein, and calories??? When you say "5 g fat/protein to play with" does that mean you're getting 55 g fat and protein? Are you counting protein and fat in fruit and veg?

200 g carbs is nothing. That is still quite low carb. Many "maintenance" phases in various low carb diets are 150 g carbs and many many people eat 300 g carbs all the time on a 2000 cal diet (in fact, that's what the US FDA recommends as a healthy diet!)

Why are you eating low fat ice cream and gluten free cookies? Is there a reason??

Being on metformin even if you WERE eating more like 300+ grams of carbs a day it wouldn't be delaying your ovulation. My gut is still that it's the estrogen patches. I don't KNOW that as a fact but it's the one thing that's different.

[Kiwimaz]

Do you have totals for fat, protein, and calories??? When you say "5 g fat/protein to play with" does that mean you're getting 55 g fat and protein? Are you counting protein and fat in fruit and veg?

200 g carbs is nothing. That is still quite low carb. Many "maintenance" phases in various low carb diets are 150 g carbs and many many people eat 300 g carbs all the time on a 2000 cal diet (in fact, that's what the US FDA recommends as a healthy diet!)

Why are you eating low fat ice cream and gluten free cookies? Is there a reason??

Being on metformin even if you WERE eating more like 300+ grams of carbs a day it wouldn't be delaying your ovulation. My gut is still that it's the estrogen patches. I don't KNOW that as a fact but it's the one thing that's different.

Yeah so yesterday for example, I did some exercise and ate 1435cals according to my fitness pal, 187g carbs, 52g fat, 59g protein.
I enter fruit and starchy vege into my diary but not like green beans or lettuce. So it is counting protein and fat in fruit and veg but I always shoot for 60g of those, sometimes go to 65g protein if I need to (this happens more when I've exercised more). So if after dinner I'm at 50 or 55g either/each protein and fat (its usually fat I have left to eat rather than protein) I will have 'dessert' or supper but its all logged in my food diary. I had the ice cream last night, a 60g serve, and it was within those counts written above. I guess its helping me not binge as I do feel like it sometimes! And I eat those things because I like them lol. Are you saying the sugar in them will undermine my sway? These cookies are more naughty due to the fat in them than anything else.

[Kiwimaz]

To be fair I've been fighting a virus & last Sunday/Monday started feeling worse I've been to the Dr & he said I have an ear infection... looking at my chart I was gearing up to O last weekend then didn't & that might be why.

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[atomic sagebrush]

I would advise just as a general rule shooting for 65 g then. This will make up for the pro and fat in fruits and veg. I know to you guys this just seems like a simple little detail not worth worrying about but it is of paramount importance. I can't even tell you the number of times that people swear to me they're getting plenty of protein and fat, then I have them add up their totals and they realize they were missing the mark by 10-15, even 20 grams at times.

187 g carbs is not high carbs at all whatsoever so that is probably just fine if that's what you're really getting per day.

Low fat and gluten free foods are invariably higher in carbs than their full fat versions. I really don't like to see anyone on the alternate diet eating them. I'd rather see you guys cheat on full fat, sugar sweetened things (like a scoop of real ice cream instead of low fat ice cream) because the fat in them helps slow down the blood sugar raises that carbs can trigger in people with insulin sensitivity. Your blood sugar doesn't rise so high and so fast. Foods with a reasonable amount of fat along with the carbs also prevent you from being so hungry and would probably reduce your desire to have those treats as often. Plus, low fat and skim dairy is the DEVIL for blood sugar and it violates the rule of "no skim dairy".

Fat within limits is not "naughty." You need 50-60 g protein and fat, by which I mean real fat not the non-existent "fat" that the government says are in fruit and veg because they round everything up, so things that have microscopic amounts of fat in them are automatically said to have 1 gram, for the alternate LE Diet to work. So right away you're selling yourself short by not having the full fat amount you can have. Eat 60 g protein/fat as a matter of course! Even 65! But don't be so nervous about protein and fat that now you switch over to basically the standard LE because it just hasn't been as effective particularly for anyone with PCO-tendencies.

Now, can you make up for what you're doing with metformin, possibly. But a fair number
of the people who have gotten opposites on the alt diet + metformin are the ones who shrug their shoulders and eat sugar anyway thinking that the metformin will make it up. Here's one of the people who went this route and got a boy (actually TWO failed sways) https://www.genderdreaming.com/forum/add-your-girl-sway-/79660-roma-rose-ttc-girl-sway-attempt.html?highlight=roma+rose

Cheating is fine and allowed on LE Diet. As needed for sanity and circumstance, and whenever it's really helping you not to binge (I would do the full fat ice cream tho). This isn't carte blanche to then add in ice cream and cookies every day, with or without metformin. I can't really tell exactly how much you're having them but ideally you'd be looking for ways to make up those calories without resorting to cookies and ice cream whenever possible. I would honestly prefer to see a PCOSer upping pro and fat totals to 65 or even 70 g then be eating sugar to make up calories.

Fruit, starchy veg, whole grains (whole grain sweets are better than gluten free, so something like whole grain toast with butter and a little Nutella or jam is one way to go) dairy, those are the things to make up calories with. And if you just need to cheat to make it through, ditch gluten free and low fat/fat free product, particularly when they involve low fat or skim dairy.

[atomic sagebrush]

To be fair I've been fighting a virus & last Sunday/Monday started feeling worse I've been to the Dr & he said I have an ear infection... looking at my chart I was gearing up to O last weekend then didn't & that might be why.

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Oh well, that may be the entire reason right there!! Feel better soon!

[Kiwimaz]

Thank you that's really helpful with the foods as it's actually savoury protein and fat foods I'm craving most. My skin is pretty bad & my facial hair does seem a bit worse this cycle but whether it's down to how I'm eating or the delayed O for other reasons I can't be sure.
I have to eat gluten free, I can't tolerate gluten at all. These cookies have 6g fat but 12g carbs (4g from sugar), so i think when i was breastfeeding I had to keep in mind how calorie dense they were due to the constant hunger. The low fat ice cream is 2.5% is actually new this week, I have been probably realistically snacking on chocolate in the evenings more but I think if I can eat more pro & fat I won't be craving as bad.

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[atomic sagebrush]

Oh ok then if you need to be gluten free that is fine! Carry on with that. I have a surprising number of people who eat gluten free stuff thinking it must be lower in carbs than wheat stuff so I jumped to the conclusion that's what you were doing there, sorry! Carry on with those as they probably are a good way for you to get some cals in when you need to.

[Kiwimaz]

Oh heck no gf is usually lower in fibre & protein but I do try to incorporate fibre or fat or protein to slow down its digestion or like have the cookie after a balanced meal with heaps of veggies to slow that blood sugar response.

Ewcm yesterday we dtd last night... hoping today's the day!!!
I think I'll drop the estrogen next cycle I'm just reluctant to right now & throw things off by shocking my body.

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[atomic sagebrush]

Perfect, and perfect timing too!

Some people get really mixed up between "whole grains" and "gluten" for some reason!

Awesome!! FXFXFX and pink dust headed your way!

[Kiwimaz]

Well, still waiting to ovulate here!
Lots of false starts, my head feels all over the place tbh. I've dropped the estrogen, still getting ewcm here & there & lots of pressure in my ovaries but not surging obviously.
It's CD39 today & looking through my charts, the cycle before conceiving my DD I Ovd CD42, which is very late for me & one reason I asked for Femara (& concieved on it).
So although my weight is steady at BMI 20.5, I do wonder if there might be something about the diet or vitamin boundaries that's hindering things. Praying it'll happen CD42 again. It cost about $1000 doing Femara here so hoping to avoid if possible.

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[treens]

Good Luck Kiwimaz! That is a long cycle!

[Kiwimaz]

Thank you! [emoji28][emoji24]

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[atomic sagebrush]

Oh goodness, well I'm sorry to hear that!

It's pretty unlikely that it has to do with diet, you're just not in the range where I typically see that and you're truly not eating that many carbs, even with PCO-tendencies. Most likely the estrogen just knocked something a bit off kilter.

Hoping you ovulate soon!

[Kiwimaz]

I was thinking more along the lines of my iron or b12 since they were an issue last year but you're probably right about the estrogen. But...... I ovulated woohoo. I actually o'd the night before I last posted I'm pretty confident due to cm and mood (probably why I was feeling down about it lol) but my temp didn't reflect it yet on Monday. So we had attempts O-2 and O-5. Yes that's right, hubby wasn't onboard with every 96hrs that day :think: My DS3 was conceived with attemps O-2 and O-6 so I don't feel too hung up on it. I think in the end DH was wanting more 50/50 odds.
If we fall this month I'd have been on the diet proper for 2mths so I guess there's that but we'll see!

[treens]

Good luck! Best of luck getting the perfect little one for your family :)))

[atomic sagebrush]

I haven't really seen those cause disrupted cycles. If you need them it's fine to take them (I think we discussed this before) but that would not be where I'd put my money in terms of what caused this.

How awesome that O has arrived! And we still see good results with every 72 hours anyway so that's fine with me!!!

Good luck and pink dust headed your way!

[Kiwimaz]

Got my AF so still in the game although feeling quite burnt out about it all after waiting so long to O. No estradot this cycle & see what happens. I'm in the southern hemisphere & hoped to avoid being full term in the heat of summer lol.

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[treens]

Im sorry this wasn't your month :( How long have you guys been trying? Wishing you a little girl soon!

[atomic sagebrush]

Oh gosh, well, I'm hoping you get the luck I did with my August baby - rainy and cold, completely out of season! I had to even wear a sweater! :)

[Kiwimaz]

Im sorry this wasn't your month :( How long have you guys been trying? Wishing you a little girl soon!This was only the 1st official month. I think it just feels so long waiting to O for 3wks after CD14 (but still seeing patches of ewcm & increased drive) & worried I'll miss it altogether cz the OPKs aren't super reliable for me & I feel like they get me down mentally. Then the tww, then back to waiting to O, but knowing it's not only 2 more weeks, it'll be possibly 5wks from AF to the next egg. Sorry if sounds like a rant, I'm really grateful we otherwise have no fertility issues! I'm on the anxious side, timing (& my inability to pinpoint it) gets to me. My ovulation does seem weaker since my last two babies, age related I'd guess. My temp doesn't go up as quickly or as high, & my LP is shorter.
Am booked for a review with a gyn next week, hoping letrozole is on the menu again & without the added cost of ultrasound monitoring [emoji120]
As I'm 38, they don't tend to make you wait X amount of months which is pretty great.

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[atomic sagebrush]

Please don't go down the "weak ovulation" rabbithole. This is one of those terms that gets bandied about a lot without any medical agreement on what it even means (is it the egg being released too soon? Too late? Without enough force to push it into the Fallopian tube? Is it the hormones being off before O, during, or after O?) Whenever there's a term that is used so wildly and to describe so many different things, it starts to take on an air of being a convenient scapegoat; docs will sometimes use it when they don't know why a person has gotten pregnant and/or to convince a person who is reticent to use medication, to use it, and then herb peddlers use it to sell herbs. People who are TTC will grab onto any descriptive terminology because it's human nature to like to have words to describe things that we are going through. Long story short, people are tossing about a term that is ill-defined and all but certainly being misused, not to mention isn't really proven that it's even a real thing.

It is normal and natural for the menstrual cycle to change over time. This can be reflected in temps, or changes in temps can have to do with other, completely unrelated reasons. Many, many people have these types of cycles - delayed O, short LP, sluggish temps even when they're 22 years old and popping out eggs like their ovaries are wee little tommyguns, so assuming that changes in your cycle at any point are "age related weak ovulation" is really not warranted. And the opposite is equally true I had extremely normal, regular, clockwork cycles till just this past year (I'm 51) and my eggs had been cooked long before that.

Just keep plugging away, with your history of proven fertility I have every confidence you'll get pregnant within short order.

[Kiwimaz]

Sorry Atomic it was probably the wrong choice of word. I guess I meant more that the ovulation is sometimes uncoordinated or disorganized because of PCOS which I do think has got worse as I've got older, like my estrogen is lower than it was in my 20s and early 30s and more hirsutism. The cycle before I conceived #4 was longer still than the one I just finished (I was thinner though), and my LP was 12 days (as it was this time) instead of my usual 14/15 . The cycle before I conceived #3 was my first post partum, and we conceived but I had an early mc, and my betas never got off the ground so I think the pregnancy was never really viable. I guess in my mind, whether there's any evidence of it, when the follicles are sitting there trying to grow, but getting mixed messages from the brain and making multiple attempts to ovulate in a cycle and failing before eventually succeeding, this could result in a poor quality/poorly matured egg and the lining may not be optimal. I was told the estrogen patch wouldn't stop me ovulating at that low dose, but given the relationship between my brain and my ovaries is already tenuous, it was probably enough to suppress fsh etc to a degree to muck it up. I ovulated a week after stopping the patch but felt much better on it.
I conceived my kids on CD28, CD22, CD15 and CD28 (femara cycle with 2 rounds) so I guess I feel that the cycles that have been longer than that where we didn't conceive or I had an early mc were not synchronized enough to result in a pregnancy.
I know Femara helps with a pink sway, so do you think its still worth obtaining it?
I wasn't expecting to get in so soon but it'll be CD17 when I see the Dr so I'm not sure he'll want to start a course mid cycle or wait for the next AF, in which case it'd be better to push it out a bit in case this cycle is successful.

[atomic sagebrush]

First and MOST IMPORTANT - unless your doctor does blood tests and/or ultrasound to confirm where you are in the cycle, DO NOT start the Femara/letrozole in the middle of the cycle. If you start taking the medication at the wrong time (say, right before you were about to ovulate) you can stop an egg in its tracks and even cause a cyst to form. So it is IMPERATIVE that you either wait for a period (and a negative pregnancy test if there is any chance you could be pregnant) or else have a blood test and hopefully an ultrasound as well to ensure you're not just about to ovulate.

No not at all, there's no way for you to know that "weak ovulation" is not a good term. My whole point is that the term "weak ovulation" is tossed about in online spaces with absolutely no agreement about what it even really means, not that any of you are wrong for doing that...how would you know, if someone didn't tell you?

"Weak ovulation" is like "hysteria" - doctors used to slap that label on any difficult patient they had, and it was even in medical books, but it wasn't ever an actual thing. Certainly there are people who have mental illness, and others who seem to be having trouble conceiving, but neither "hysteria" nor "weak ovulation" are acceptable terms for medical professionals to use. Nor are they helpful to use to describe ourselves, because they are not properly defined and were/are basically so widely used that they had no real meaning.

I just hate to see anyone telling themselves they have a "medical condition" when there is absolutely no agreement from anyone at all about what the definition of that even means. People then start applying terms that are just this side of made up and making assumptions based on themselves having issues that are not unusual or abnormal in any way. I don't like seeing people do that, because not only is it discouraging, it causes them to take steps such as adding in medications that they do not need, that can cause a whole different set of issues to suddenly begin (since all these things have side effects).

I need to address a couple things here. Kiwi, I don't mean to quibble with you, truly. I know that nothing I say will change your firmly held beliefs about the way your body works, and that you're probably going to believe whatever person tells you that meshes best with the beliefs you prefer. But I have to push back when I see people suffering under beliefs that are simply not true, because it's my job to do so. If you don't like my reply, let's just leave it at that because I cannot leave information I find both inaccurate and harmful uncorrected on these forums. I would not be doing you, or any of the others who might read this, any favors if I did.

- It is perfectly normal to have a LP of 12 days and to go back and forth from 12-14/15 day LP. That is not indicative of any issue. 12-14 day LP is a normal LP. Happens all the time, even to people who have absolutely no PCO-tendencies. This idea that women all "should" have 28 day cycles with 14 day LP or else there is something "wrong" with them has caused more unnecessary concern and anxiety for people and it's just not warranted. good explanation here: https://qz.com/1706398/the-average-menstrual-cycle-is-not-28-days/

It is very very common, and indeed, normal, to see cycles that vary from 21-35 days, equally normal to have cycles that change lengths every month. Even cycles that are more like every six weeks (either always or occasionally) are so common that we have people with that pattern all the time. Again, it doesn't mean anything.

- Most pregnancies that are not viable and end early after low betas have something wrong with them either from egg, sperm, or the way they combined very early on. This happens all the time, whether or not you have PCOS; most of us on here with more than 2 pregnancies have at least 1 loss and some people have several yet still have healthy kids too. Yes, PCOS can lead to wonky cycles and ~slightly~ poorer egg quality (controlled PCOS likely affects egg quality very little, if at all), but that doesn't mean that the fact that you had one loss means your PCO is raging out of control. Especially with the metformin, since high blood sugar is the main reason why PCOS affects egg quality negatively, this should not be any more of an issue for you than anyone.

- When your body gears up to ovulate and doesn't, that is not happening because your ovaries are getting mixed messages from your brain. I don't think that's exactly what you mean to say there, but I just want to be very clear on that for the sake of everyone who may read this. Sure, the hypothalamus is part of the brain, but it is really more to do with the endocrine system (hormones) than "getting mixed messages from the brain" which people generally think of having to do with more like thoughts and feelings, stress, anxiety, etc if that makes sense.

The reason why your body gears up to ovulate and then doesn't is because something hormonally just wasn't ideal at that time. Your body is attuned to itself and its condition via a variety of metrics and if something seems amiss, it hangs onto the egg a bit longer. This is actually to give you BETTER chances of conception, not worse ones. If your body just roared ahead when it saw a date on a calendar, shooting out an egg that maybe wasn't ready yet, or had something "off" about it (in which case it would be reabsorbed, and a different egg would begin developing faster), or at a time your body didn't seem like it was able to successfully stay pregnant for whatever reason, that would be a disaster. We'd all be conceiving babies left and right that had no chance of surviving if we just popped out an egg like clockwork on a particular cycle day, even when things in our environment seemed less than ideal. So our bodies then "decide" just to hold on to the egg a little longer.

When you stop to think about it, doesn't it make sense that your body would have some way to do that? Instead of conceiving a doomed pregnancy or wasting an entire cycle's eggs (because eggs are scarce and precious and we have only a limited number, our bodies dont want to squander them) wouldn't it make a lot more sense that your body would have a "pause" button it could hit for a few days or a week or even two?

Virtually everyone has months where they gear up to O and then don't, and many people have that just as a pattern that seems to happen monthly or most months. Sometimes it takes 2-3 surges or even more, before the egg is released. We have people who are having this situation from PCOS, people who have this situation when they didn't eat enough, people who got sick, were stressed, exercising a lot even when eating a lot of food, took herbs or medication or vitamins that delayed O, people who have no idea why but their O was just late that month. It is by no means rare to gear up and not ovulate, and then to ovulate a few days or a week or even longer. It just doesn't mean anything, even if it happens every month (as it does for many people).

And you know what? These people still get pregnant, even in cycles their ovulation has been delayed, even repeatedly delayed, even delayed by MONTHS! They are not broken, damaged, or infertile. The connection between their ovaries and their hypothalamus is just fine! Indeed, the fact that they don't ovulate when things are not ideal is a likely sign that these women's bodies are actually working just great, that their bodies are responding to cues from the environment and waiting till everything is just right to sustain a pregnancy.

- Setting all that aside, you are already on metformin. Metformin lowers blood sugar, which lowers testosterone, and gives you a better hormonal balance for conception. So all these assumptions you're making about there being something wrong with the link between your brain and your ovaries not only has no evidence to support it, but it literally cannot be true because you're on the medication that fixes the PCO-related issue in the first place.

- I would just like to point something out here. This is in NO WAY a "told you so" thing but I bring it up because you appear to be blaming yourself for the estrogen patch thing instead of the medical provider who prescribed it to you without adequate warning. If you recall, based on what I have witnessed happening to other people, I mentioned that hypothetically, using an estrogen patch could delay your ovulation. This was IN NO WAY caused by something being wrong with YOU making you respond badly to the estrogen, but because estrogen can delay O, particularly at first. (it has happened to other people!! That's how I knew it could happen in the first place!) It's not a you thing, it's a "messing with hormones" thing - whenever we do things that may alter hormones, even with the best of intentions, we can see this happening. The solution is to stop the estrogen OR to stay on it long enough so you get used to it. Do not now tell yourself that your ovulation was only delayed because of the failings of your body. It simply isn't true. Now, in the future, if you need this for PMDD type symptoms, that's something that can be revisited (and like I mention, if you stay on it longer the negative effects may wane) but I don't want you headed forth assuming that there's something wrong with you that makes you respond differently than other people do. There is nothing wrong with you, all is well, it's just a side effect that can happen.

[Kiwimaz]

Thanks Atomic, I really do appreciate the time you put into your answers here, and that this forum is public and therefore you don't want to perpetuate misinformation.
I think you hit the nail on the head that I fundamentally think there is something wrong with my body. I didn't get my first period until I was 24yrs old and that was after taking vitex. It was difficult seeing my friends start their periods but never me. I was ashamed of that and confused as I had breasts, acne and hair in the right places but no AF and I'd see them wear their menstruating badge with pride and feeling honestly defective yep. I didn't know one other girl my age who didn't have their AF and I wasn't overweight by any means.
In my late 20s I was spotting alot from about CD16 to CD 26 ish then ovulating. I saw an RE about it (she prescribed estrogen cream vaginally) and also that my partner and I had been NTNP for 5yrs but only 2 early mcs in that time. She said, if it hasn't happened by now, it probably never will. So that reinforced it. Nevermind the fact my partner was a pack a day smoker, I assumed it was down to my defective body. I conceived my eldest not that long after that but my other three children are to my now husband, who clearly has better quality sperm.

My cycles range in length 5-8wks and are never the same from one cycle to the next. 6wks is probably my most common, with a 14/15 day LP being my usual 90% of the time. I am very analytical and a bit anxious, so it is probably my own fault, but I have found those extra long cycles (those beyond 6wks), very draining mentally when ttc down to being afraid of missing O altogether and just the fact you're getting one shot in two months, instead of 2 shots if you were on the obligatory textbook 28 day cycle. There are also other supps I'd be taking to help myself (in general) right now, that I'm not due to swaying pink.

Metformin reduces the pain in my ovaries and during intercourse, and the first one or two cycles after I start it I see an earlier O, but after that I seem to go back to Oing all over the place. I guess the expectation was with metformin, diet, exercise and a healthy BMI, I'd get my cycles down to 5wks regularly. Like I expected to get my period in high school. But to my disappointment no.
So you're right, the belief is my hypothalamic/ovarian axis is wonky for any number of reasons and maybe it's better to be 'managed'. Which is ironic cz I hate patriarchal values underpinning a lot of medicine and the reason I think I'm broken is because the textbooks say a normal cycle is 21-35 days or whatever and menarche should occur by X age and if it doesn't its CAH or obestiy related PCOS or a tumor etc etc.

Thanks for your input Atomic, I have a lot of respect for you and also understand this is a swaying forum, not pcos support, or ttc support or adolescent trauma suppport so I will try manage this the best that I can and keep on track with the LE PCOS diet and exercise while waiting to O again.

[treens]

Big hug. I am sorry you have had such a tough time over the years. I am sure you will get the perfect bundle to extend your family :))))

[atomic sagebrush]

Kiwi, I wanted to touch base with you and see how you're getting along??

[Kiwimaz]

The specialist was ok with prescribing letrozole but said I need to have a period first, he's also prescribed 10 days Provera too if I want/need it but I'm nervous about it cz of PMDD I don't tend to react well to progesterones. He thought could just as well wait for natural O.
Still waiting to ovulate though on current cycle. Up to CD26. I thought i might give it til next Monday for natural O. We've kinda given up on this cycle I think cz I find the one attempt plus a very unpredictable O is causing me stress.
In general though I feel really fatigued I can't wait to get pregnant and wean off met, take some extra vitamins & eat as much protein as I want [emoji3052][emoji39]

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[treens]

Hoping what the doctor has said will help you :)
Best of luck!

[atomic sagebrush]

Oh ok good I'm glad he wants you to wait. We've had a real issue with doctors just giving it out whenever without any ultrasound or bloodwork to see if it's the right time of the cycle to get any benefit.

The longer you wait, the more likely it is to happen naturally. So I'd not wait till a certain day and then start the Provera unless you think it's possible it will be months before O happens. What I'd not want to see is you waiting till you were just about to O, then starting the Provera at that point, then stopping ovulation. This seems like it could potentially mess things up even worse!

We can absolutely do e4d if you'd prefer.

[Kiwimaz]

Ok so yeah I keep putting the Provera off cz I keep thinking/feeling O is still trying to happen naturally & I thought the same about messing with things.
I felt like jumping my husband today for the 1st time in a while, it's CD30 so it's possibly coming.
My question is, would you have me attempt now, no meds, or put off til next cycle with femara? Is there much difference in success rate?
Been on diet 3mths now but slipping here & there with fat, craving alot.
Weight mostly steady, losing about a 100g a week on average.
I have picked up both the Provera & the femara already but they've told me it's $425 for the monitoring next cycle (had to pay that twice with my daughter cz the starting dose was too low but not starting that low this time).

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[atomic sagebrush]

:agree: 100% I think you're doing the right thing. If you feel like O may be coming in short order the Provera can just mess up everything and for no benefit (since you'd have done the same thing naturally just thru waiting)

I think it's perfectly fine for you to try this month, provided YOU feel comfy with it. If you'll live 1000 lifetimes of regret if you try and get an opposite then of course wait, but keep in mind that it is absolutely possible that you'd try and get a girl this month, or wait and even with Femara next month, conceive a boy.

Based on studies done in people who were NOT swaying we see about 3-5% pink sway benefit with Femara. Our statistics are not terribly reliable but we have average 75% with the medications and 70-72% percent without them so we do see some benefit, but keep in mind that a lot of people do still get boys with the medications. It's all about what you feel is best for your family and your sway.

[Kiwimaz]

Thanks that's really helpful. I thought about the possible level of regret if I didn't wait, but also that if it was 5% or less from meds I'd be ok with it if it came naturally this cycle - incl the intercourse. Everyone is suffering under the current level of inflation so $425 does sting but if I just take the meds with no monitoring will they ban me lol.
Small increase of temp today which I often see day of O so maybe this is it.

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[atomic sagebrush]

YASSSS about the inflation!! Sorry to hear you guys are experiencing that too, it's rough.

Makes sense, good luck and pink dust headed your way.

FXFXFX!!!

[treens]

Good luck fingers crossed for you :)))))

[Kiwimaz]

Fertility friend says I ovulated & we had an attempt O day, I think it was O-12 but hey, yay no Provera.
First attempt for 2wks so very happy with that being 1 attempt. Sick with flu now, maybe that's a good sign.

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[atomic sagebrush]

Good luck and pink dust headed your way!

[Kiwimaz]

I def ovulated (later than originally charted), af is here, starting meds on Friday & ultrasound June 5th [emoji847]

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[atomic sagebrush]

AWESOME! Good luck and thanks for keeping me posted! Your experiences are invaluable letting me know how it all works. FXFXFX!!!

[Kiwimaz]

I'm CD17 & they canceled my cycle yesterday.
I did 5mg days 3-7, had an ultrasound CD12 with 3 follies 11 & 12mm. Another one CD15 with 3 10mm follies & 3 follies 11 & 12 almost 13mm. They want to go to 7.5mg after I get my next period (which will be in 5wks going by my last 2 cycles).
With dd I did 2.5mg days 3-7 then 5mg days 18-22 & ovd CD28. They don't want to go straight into more meds but won't give a reason. Just that it's been 2.5yrs since I did that.
I'm thinking I'll probably still ov this cycle, my dh can't understand why they won't do any more ultrasounds. My OPKs are negative atm but do you have any encouragement to offer that it's still early for this cycle to be a bust? I've got more meds here but I don't wanna suppress the biggest follicle I've got if it is still growing all be it slowly!

What is a good release pattern for dh to go for quality?

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[atomic sagebrush]

Goodness yes absolutely that is WAY too soon to declare a cycle a bust!!! What in the world are they thinking??

You will all but certainly still ovulate, keep doing OPK or do e4d method to be sure you're covered.

PLEASE do not take any more medication at this point. Let the follicles that are there develop and be ovulated, and take the medication in future months.

[Kiwimaz]

Thanks Atomic. I bawled my eyes out cz she just focussed on the fact they hadn't grown at all in 3 days, but I was thinking, but I have PCOS???
With dd my follicles at the 1st & 2nd ultrasound (on 2.5mg) were all 10mm & under so I am encouraged these were bigger.
I'm thinking to switch to every 72hr pattern this cycle if showing fertile signs cz we have hit 0-3 a couple times already.
Also, if I wanted to add vit D cz its winter here & raining constantly, would 1000iu every other day be terrible for my sway?
It helps my mood & I've seen quite a bit of research connecting vit D to PCOS ovulation success.

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[atomic sagebrush]

Yes it's completely ridiculous, we see people who sort of "run in place" for a few days and then they go on to ovulate eventually!! I would absolutely switch to e4d in the 72 hour pattern and that way you guys can just roll with it till the egg drops - which it still will!

I'd try it twice a week instead of every other if you feel you need the D.

[Kiwimaz]

My OPKs are fading in!!! We dtd Sunday night & its Tuesday today, if I get a positive today we should dtd again tomorrow night right?

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[atomic sagebrush]

Yes, if you're sticking with e4d for now! If you want better chance of conception you can always add an attempt the night of the positive and then continue with the e4d. That may be more blue friendly, though.

[Kiwimaz]

My peak was yesterday morning but decided not to dtd last night. I might get him home at lunchtime though just in case tonight is too late. That'd be like 64hrs since the last bd.

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[treens]

Good Luck to you :))))

[atomic sagebrush]

I hope you guys went for it!! good luck!

[Kiwimaz]

I have a temp rise!!! No crosshairs yet of course.
He was too busy, but we dtd that night. I think I ovd off my left around 2pm that day & then again yesterday around 10am off my right (CD22 & CD23) & we also dtd CD19.
So happy I went with my gut & didn't intervene with more meds but also a bit miffed they stopped scanning when it was so expensive! If there were too many mature follicles they would've canceled for that reason too.
Ovd 2 eggs with my dd on 5mg too I'd put money on it 7.5mg would've bn too much.

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[atomic sagebrush]

It's honestly one of the reasons why I'm not super "into" monitoring, I have rarely seen them give any info that wasn't misleading in some way - even crazy things like telling people they were going into menopause (which no one can tell that from an ultrasound) and then the woman had a BFP 10 days later LOL. It's a very strange level of misinformation and even outright fabrications about how it all works, and I don't quite understand how it is allowed to carry on so blatantly (and in every country too!)

[Kiwimaz]

They seem very committed to not putting people at risk of triplets or more. Over here you just cannot access the medication unless you pay for monitoring at least initially, so they can see if you over respond.
I guess with high AMH they think its even riskier but they do like to be in control!

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[atomic sagebrush]

Right, exactly! That would seem to intuitively make sense, and that was what I originally told people to do for that very reason. But then I've seen so many people who are told to try anyway (in a few cases even with FOUR eggs!), people who did try anyway only to end up with a singleton even with 2-3 eggs, one person who ended up with triplets after being told there was only one egg, several people who were told they weren't even close to ovulating who ended up pregnant, in some cases with twins, and one bizarre case where a doctor told a woman to have sex, wait a day, and then have sex again which somehow would prevent her from having twins (this makes no sense of course as there are many millions of sperm per batch and they can live for a couple days) that I have concluded that benefit is not as great as we might think. If they're not even able to see triplet eggs, if they're telling people they're not ovulating when they clearly are, it just really makes me doubt their ability to prevent multiples in any consistent way.

But just like you say, it's the hoops you have to jump through to get what we want, which is the medication you need to conceive.

[Kiwimaz]

Got my crosshairs today but also came down sick last night & tested positive for covid today waaah I hope it doesn't affect implantation.
I was feeling so positive. Would you believe it we had norovirus when I had to start the femara (some last minute weight loss there!).

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[atomic sagebrush]

tons of people have tested positive around the time of conception and we haven't seen any increased rate of losses (and trust me I was looking for a connection!) Take it easy, start that prenatal and take some extra Vitamin D till you're feeling better!!

[atomic sagebrush]

tons of people have tested positive around the time of conception and we haven't seen any increased rate of losses (and trust me I was looking for a connection!) Take it easy, start that prenatal and take some extra Vitamin D till you're feeling better!!

[Kiwimaz]

I'm just gonna leave this herehttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20220622/367e8c32263b30dc85cb6a026ac6c0f9.jpg

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[atomic sagebrush]

Can you elaborate? I'm sorry, I'm not sure what I'm looking for here.

[Kiwimaz]

Sorry! there's a bfp!!!

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[LMSM]

Congrats!! Sending you heaps of pink vibes :D

[treens]

Congratulations!!! Pink dust to you :DD:

[atomic sagebrush]

I thought that's what I was seeing but I would never want to assume that if someone was upset over something, so I started secondguessing!! Huge congrats!!! (it makes me want to show that to the person who told you that you wouldn't O this month tho!!!)

[Kiwimaz]

I know right! The nurse was very surprised when she just rang to give me my blood results (which were hcg of 50 & progesterone 84). A refund would be nice [emoji1787]

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[onelittlewish]

Love seeing BFP announcements...huge congrats and hope you get your little girl!

[Girlboyohboy]

Congratulations!!! 💗💗

[atomic sagebrush]

I know right! The nurse was very surprised when she just rang to give me my blood results (which were hcg of 50 & progesterone 84). A refund would be nice [emoji1787]

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YES it would be!! LOL!

[Kiwimaz]

Had my NT scan today at 13+5 but baby wasn't very cooperative & I'm not sure we have a clear nub shot. Pretty sure I didn't see an obvious pointing up one but gender scan in 2wks.
Keen to hear your thoughts though!https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20220830/133f22d2b5c53bd3272341bd2ceb6a1f.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20220830/5e83acea139d73f9792430c4d5d22e1a.jpg

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[atomic sagebrush]

Yes I think the baby was in motion! The thing that looks "nub-ish" in the bottom, I believe is tailbone as I see continuity there, and in the top photo the nub is not well captured. 50-50 from me with just the faintest pink vibe from the skull (but of course that's not reliable!)

[Kiwimaz]

Thanks Atomic, my gut is saying boy even though I was at my lowest conception weight. Either way very excited. Will update after the 16wk scan [emoji4]

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[MsDashwood]

Hoping for a girl for you.


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[Kiwimaz]

16+1 scan today says 98% boy, it really felt like confirmation more than anything but we will wait until after anatomy scan before sharing with family (or not until he's born!).
Not disappointed so much as grieving, but my heart was really open to another son. What I really wanted was b/g twins cz I wanted both lol.
Blaming myself a bit with my sway but I struggled alot more with my health this time. I therefore was less strict with the supplements as well as having the complicating factor of the estrogen patch...
My husband was also more inclined to another boy this time so didn't do any swaying at all except his seater warmer in the car!

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[atomic sagebrush]

Congrats on your new son!!

[Kiwimaz]

Hey Atomic,

We are confirmed boy with NIPT. I'm so excited and bonding with him already but my heart aches for my daughter. Does your daughter seem to suffer for want of a sister? I have two sisters so this is hard to imagine.

I've logged on to enter my sway details but the form I found seems quite old maybe? Not sure if its the same one I filled in with my daughter. Could you send me a link?

[treens]

Congratulations! Boys are amazing!

[atomic sagebrush]

Oh gosh Kiwi, so sorry it didn't go the way we were hoping.

Honestly, my daughter seems to enjoy being the only girl. She and I have our little "girls club" and then my 4th son and her are the absolute best of friends (my 3rd son is actually the one that gets left out at times). She doesn't have to share clothes or toys (and since she's the only granddaughter for my dad/stepmom, and my husband's family, that's a lot). Only once or twice has she ever mentioned that it might have been nice to have a sister, but on the whole she's never seemed to suffer any deep lasting angst over it longer than an occasional whim. I had a little brother when I was a girl and I just ADORED him so much. I think she's going to love having a baby around regardless of gender!

I'll try to post the link to add your sway in a minute here.

[atomic sagebrush]

Is it this link? Or is it full already with your old replies? https://www.genderdreaming.com/forum/add-your-girl-sway-/12617-girl-attempt-survey-system-how-post-your-sway-info-upon-bfp-before-you-know-gender.html

[Kiwimaz]

Yep that's the one I was after not the one I filled in a couple of days ago (don't count that one in your stats).
And nope its not filled in my with other sway info.

Honestly I believe we are getting this boy for a reason and I know my heart was really open to a boy anyway. I think I will just have to let it sit, I don't think I have it in me to go again but you never know. Said that last time and after she became a toddler I started to feel differently. If I sway again I'll be stricter like I was with my dd.
But I thought the same as you, she doesn't have to share all the girls stuff like my boys have to share all their stuff, and it might actually be nice not to have the conflict over that lol.

My in-laws said we should stop here as the risk for trisomies is going up and my husband and I are mildly offended and inclined to prove them wrong haha. My ovarian reserve is super high so theoretically my risk shouldn't be the same as someone else my age. I've got lots of letrozole sitting here from ttc this baby so its a bit tempting! Rambling now but thank you for the link, will complete today.

[atomic sagebrush]

I will tell you, my 4th boy is just AMAZING. He's the kid who looks like me, he's super smart and funny, he's always of good cheer - just a dream child. And like I said, he and my daughter are the closest of all five of my children by far...I can't imagine her being any closer to a sister than they are to each other.

It's terrifying when I look back and think "wow if I'd had my way I wouldn't have had him at all". 12 years later I'm just so thankful that I didn't get what I want.

But at the same time had I been a few years younger when Suzy came along, even though I feel very DONE with everything as it is, I would probably have succumbed to the temptation myself! Whatever happens, I'll be here to help however I can! :) Hugest congrats again on your new son!

[LMSM]

Yep that's the one I was after not the one I filled in a couple of days ago (don't count that one in your stats).
And nope its not filled in my with other sway info.

Honestly I believe we are getting this boy for a reason and I know my heart was really open to a boy anyway. I think I will just have to let it sit, I don't think I have it in me to go again but you never know. Said that last time and after she became a toddler I started to feel differently. If I sway again I'll be stricter like I was with my dd.
But I thought the same as you, she doesn't have to share all the girls stuff like my boys have to share all their stuff, and it might actually be nice not to have the conflict over that lol.

My in-laws said we should stop here as the risk for trisomies is going up and my husband and I are mildly offended and inclined to prove them wrong haha. My ovarian reserve is super high so theoretically my risk shouldn't be the same as someone else my age. I've got lots of letrozole sitting here from ttc this baby so its a bit tempting! Rambling now but thank you for the link, will complete today.

oh Kiwi - the way I look at it as you already have both genders, you really can't go wrong - pros with all possible combos! ;) also, if it makes you feel any better, my girls would tell you that they are sick of having to share everything with each other :P
You will have your very own little mummy-daughter duo - how special! and how special for her to have a baby brother to dote on - I have two little brothers and was their second mum (I recall the little one, at age 2/3 dressed up by me as a princess, oblivious to it all just enjoying being my "doll" LOL) <3