2022 TWW Thread!

[atomic sagebrush]

Hey! Are you in the Two-Week-Wait?? Wanna chat with people who are also waiting to POAS?? Here's a place to do just that!!

[Cookies22]

Hi everyone! I'll kick this thread off...

First month TTC. Back for sway #2, we had a sway opposite in 2018/19 and are swaying pink again. I've been on LE (PCOS) since early December, 1 hour cardio 6 days a week and had my first month of TTC this month, ended up doing E4D (0-3 and O day).

My BMI is lower than it was when I conceived DS1 and DS2, I've lost 1.8kg since doing LE and I've been on the diet a month longer than I was when I swayed back in 2018/19. I was losing weight even before starting LE, I have lost 4kg in the past 5 months, which is a lot on my frame (i'm 180cm tall).

Sending everyone all the baby dust! Hoping there are others who can join me on the TWW!

[Blckhrt]

I’m 9dpo currently, stark white BFNs today. :( it was our second try, and my second round of Clomid. I’m pretty sure I’m out, again. Been on the diet since the first week of October and getting tired of it! I’m pretty bummed bc we won’t get our next chance to try until May, which feels forever away.

[Cookies22]

It's so hard isn't it?! I saw on your thread that you're skipping next month so that you don't have a Christmas baby; I worry about this too, especially as my DS2 was born 2.5 weeks early!

I had a BFN at 9DPO with my DS2 and a BFP the next day at 1-DPO so you just never know, you're early yet! Fingers crossed.

[Blckhrt]

10dpo today, still stark white AND my temp started to go down. Looks like I’m out.

[Jazmin]

thank you Atomic for creating this thread.

cycle 3- 9DPO, I was so tempted to test this morning and I did to see BFN.

I didn’t have much symptoms last month but this month feels slightly different, I guess odd months with hormone variation. [emoji1696] for all of us


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[atomic sagebrush]

Just wanted to mention that if you guys have questions, sometimes it's best to ask them in a new thread. Otherwise sometimes we get q's and a's mixed up! Good luck!! PS - I don't think any of you are out quite yet! FXFXFX!

[Jazmin]

how are you ladies getting on?? 11 dpo and clear negative but yday i saw a faint positive i think it was maybe evap line??

anyone ever got evap line lead then to a positive later dpo?


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[Cookies22]

Oh that's exciting Jazmin! I've never had an evap line but it's not over til AF shows! Good luck and please keep us updated!

I'm going well, I'm 8DPO, it's actually almost 1am here in Aus and I cannot sleep because I have really intense lower back pain... it started yesterday afternoon (7DPO) and is still going... I've been really thirsty and hungry too, which is unusual, I had to get up to eat something tonight because I was ravenous, I ate some crackers... hope that doesn't discourage any possible implantation! Surely some crackers won't undo an implantation (hope not). I had a dizzy spell at the beach this afternoon and I remember having the same experience during the TWW with my second baby... I think I'm going to try and hold out til 10DPO to test, I was 10DPO when I got a BFP with my second babe.

Now I just need to figure a way to get to sleep with this back ache!

[Jazmin]

ah thank you. I am not hoping much as it is already 11DPO with BFN .. but yes until AF i will keep a pinch of hope there lol

ah yes backache seems like a common symptom for BFP! [emoji1696][emoji1696] for you

other one is breast tenderness and that is there for me a lot this month but I am sure AF is playing with my brain [emoji23].

I had increased smell sense at some point too. no discharge or anything which I read is a big sign.

I also have on and off lower cramp. the problem is .. my symptoms are there when I get AF. a small difference is that breast tenderness is more and for longer.

I am getting shock from metals and even by touching someone. is that something? i dont know [emoji848] but new

Good luck and keep us updated [emoji4].. excited for you [emoji4][emoji4]


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[atomic sagebrush]

Oh gosh can you post a pic Jazmin???

[Jazmin]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20220317/c42ce3c1fab12f1440e107711d3df140.jpg
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20220317/12ae76064d8aa1911598b9405b65baf8.jpg
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20220317/49c56f188dbc737cac82b9bb5e61f493.jpg

Hi atomic, they all are the same test but the line didn’t show straight away, which is why I think it is evap line. I am not sure if you are able to see that vvv faint line there in the picture. Today’s test didn’t show positive either and i am 11dpo


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[atomic sagebrush]

Oh yes those are pretty faint, aren't they? I can see it on the top test but not on the others, so probably an evap, I agree.

[Jazmin]

yes, I am feeling the same.. it was clear negative today on a different test strip. will wait for AF [emoji36]


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[atomic sagebrush]

:( I'm sorry. FXFXFX!!!!

[Jazmin]

thank you atomic.. for all the support.
as we guessed it was evap line. AF arrived today morning.

how are you ladies getting on. i will skip this cycle as I am entering to fasting month.

I just believe it will happen when I am able to conceive my boy [emoji4] .. and this was not that month


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[Cookies22]

I love your approach, Jazmin! That's a great way of looking at it!

I'm 9DPO and tested negative this morning (pretty sure 9DPO is too early to test anyway?). The earliest I've ever gotten a BFP was 10DPO, and I can't be 100% sure of my DPO dates because I'm not temping. So I'm trying to convince myself to wait until AF is late, or at least a lot closer, before I test again (easier said than done!). I have come down with a cold & it's the weekend and I just want to pee on sticks constantly haha.

I'm absolutely starving, which doesn't usually happen to me until my PMS kicks in later in my cycle... hard because I'm still doing LE but I'm getting hunger pains all day & night and it's hard to sleep when I'm so hungry!

[atomic sagebrush]

Yep 9DPO is too early for most people.

When progesterone rises in the 2WW it's normal to feel a little hungrier. Have a snack! Don't be miserable because not only is it harder to stick with diet, it actually can make you more control freakish since you need so much white-knuckle willpower to make it thru the day.

[Jazmin]

9DPO is early.. you still have time .. [emoji1696][emoji1696] for you [emoji4][emoji4]
when I looked back to my last preg history , it was 11dpo that I got very faint positive.

lol I know that temptation to test early.. i kept few cheap strips and haven’t bought the expensive one yet.. thought to only get it if i see something on this one.

being hungry seems good early sign [emoji7].. [emoji1696][emoji1696]


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[Cookies22]

Thanks ladies! Jazmin, were you testing daily when you got your BFP at 11DPO?

Tested this morning at 10DPO and BFN :( if I didn’t have that severe back pain cramping and dizziness on 7-8DPO I’d have zero hope for this month… maybe I’d just imagined it all!

Taking the boys on an outdoor adventure this morning to take my mind off it all, we finally have sun here after weeks and weeks of rain and severe flooding (I’m in Australia, you might have seen it on the news!) x

[atomic sagebrush]

It's not that you imagined anything, Cookies, it's that at that point there is a big hormone surge REGARDLESS of pregnancy that can sometimes bring with it some pretty bizarre symptoms. I often have "ovulation pains" and crampiness (tho admittedly not to the level you experienced) 7 DPO. And a few times I've experienced dizziness in the luteal phase including some months I could not possibly have been pregnant.

It's also always possible that a fertilized egg that was not developing correctly just "kissed" the side of the uterus and then did not implant. But typically, we don't see any kind of major symptoms unless a pregnancy is at least starting off with implantation, and then you'd likely have gotten a faint positive. The hormones that cause the positive are the same hormones that cause the symptoms, so generally speaking when you have symptoms related to a chemical, you would get a very faint positive with FMU even a couple days later. Not always, but generally speaking.

Oh gosh yes I did see that on the news, glad the sun is out!! Stay safe and have a lovely adventure!

[Cookies22]

https://postimg.cc/GTkJP4wF

https://postimg.cc/87ydb830

Not sure if you can see these images? I had a hard time trying to load images directly to the site. Best viewed when enlarged and zoomed in on I think.

These were taken this morning in the testing window... I'm guessing I'm 10 or 11 DPO. The cramping and dizziness happened Thursday night / Friday morning and now it's Monday morning. Not sure if I'm imagining things, DH said he could see a 'maybe' line yesterday. I can see a slight pink squinter second line this morning but am cautious about getting my hopes up.

I tested positive for Covid last night, so symptoms are all over the place. I don't know how common nausea is with Covid, but I couldn't sleep last night because every time I lay down I thought I was going to vomit. I've taken some Vitamin C and zinc to try and help with the Covid (took them last night), I'm on immunosupressants so have to be careful with viruses.

[Jazmin]

Thanks ladies! Jazmin, were you testing daily when you got your BFP at 11DPO?

Tested this morning at 10DPO and BFN :( if I didn’t have that severe back pain cramping and dizziness on 7-8DPO I’d have zero hope for this month… maybe I’d just imagined it all!

Taking the boys on an outdoor adventure this morning to take my mind off it all, we finally have sun here after weeks and weeks of rain and severe flooding (I’m in Australia, you might have seen it on the news!) x

ohh yea.. i was testing from 6dpo and i also knew when ovulated. lol i was just too curious.

10 dpo is still early.. fingers crossed for you [emoji4][emoji4]

ohh I read it in the news, be safe . glad its finally sunny and you are able to go out .


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[Jazmin]

https://postimg.cc/GTkJP4wF

https://postimg.cc/87ydb830

Not sure if you can see these images? I had a hard time trying to load images directly to the site. Best viewed when enlarged and zoomed in on I think.

These were taken this morning in the testing window... I'm guessing I'm 10 or 11 DPO. The cramping and dizziness happened Thursday night / Friday morning and now it's Monday morning. Not sure if I'm imagining things, DH said he could see a 'maybe' line yesterday. I can see a slight pink squinter second line this morning but am cautious about getting my hopes up.

I tested positive for Covid last night, so symptoms are all over the place. I don't know how common nausea is with Covid, but I couldn't sleep last night because every time I lay down I thought I was going to vomit. I've taken some Vitamin C and zinc to try and help with the Covid (took them last night), I'm on immunosupressants so have to be careful with viruses.

omg!!! i do see a faint line!! do update us tomorrow. [emoji4][emoji4] is this your first cycle?

ohh get well soon from covid. I got it recently but I didn’t know I had it until my DH tested positive. had mild headache and lost appetite.. that’s it. xx


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[Cookies22]

https://postimg.cc/4YBRG129

https://postimg.cc/Js7Spk74

Here are two more pics in addition to the ones below... I caught my FMU in a cup so that I could do the FRER for a second time when my husband woke up and show him the result at 3 mins... this is the result at 5 min (I kept a timer running). They say to read the result between 3-10 minutes.

[atomic sagebrush]

I couldn't see the first set but I do see these!!!!

oh gosh so sorry to hear about Covid!! I'm praying it's mild! Please keep us posted how you're getting along, Cookies!!!

[Jazmin]

I can see the line .. ssoo excited for you cookie [emoji4] how you feeling.


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[Cookies22]

Hello lovelies!

https://postimg.cc/qgdhyLLn

https://postimg.cc/qz1NfddX

I took this test at 7am this morning on FMU but it's only a 3 hour hold (I was awake for hours last night with a horrible headache and did a wee at 4am before going back to sleep). it looks positive to me :) then I took a FRER digital (using the same urine caught in a cup) and it came up negative? I've googled it and it seems common, apparently the FRER digital is a lot less sensitive and picks up less HCG? Anyone with experience with this? Should I stop compulsively peeing on sticks now? :o

I with I had a Clearblue Digital to test with, that's what I've always used as a digital test, but can't go and get one as we're in isolation!

@Jazmin thanks lovely, sorry I meant to ask your earlier question, this was our first month TTC. XxXx

[atomic sagebrush]

That is a positive test. Not a squinter and NOT the type of line we see where people are mistaking them for positives. The "rules" with pregnancy tests is that a positive on any brand is a positive as various tests have different sensitivities.

Huge congrats!!!

And YES stop peeing on sticks now! Or at the least wait a few days between!

[Jazmin]

congratulations cookies [emoji4][emoji4] very happy for you [emoji7]


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[Cookies22]

Thank you so much Atomic and Jazmin! I’m absolutely thrilled!! Baby is due at the very start of December. I received a positive on the digital FRER this morning too.

Atomic, is there anything I need to change now? I started taking my prenatal the day I had those back cramps because I just knew I was pregnant, so I’m taking those and eating lots to keep the nausea at bay. Phone appt with my GP this afternoon :)

[atomic sagebrush]

Are you taking anything in terms of supplements?

I would continue at higher dose folic acid or folate till the end of the first trimester and then gradually wean back to the amount in prenatal. Come off fiber if using that. I would go ahead and normalize on diet.

What else were you thinking of specifically?

[Cookies22]

Thanks Atomic. I started taking ‘in natal’ preconception & pregnancy supplements from 9DPO and am keeping up with the higher dose of folic acid. Also just started taking fish oil, my dr said it’s safe / a good idea.

I can’t help but think this baby must be a little boy if we conceived so easily?! Do many Mamas of sons conceive girls first try? We were lucky to fall pregnant with our second son the first month TTC too. I weighed in at 55.5kg the day I got our BFP, crazy low weight, that brings my BMI to 17 I think?! I conceived DS2 at 58 or 57kg.

I’m just so thrilled to be pregnant and am already so in love with this little baby, regardless of gender. It’s such a gift to be able to experience this and after being back and forth for such a long time on whether we want a 3rd, it feels so right 💛 I guess by the time you’re onto your third baby you really appreciate the magic of it all, and I am so in love.

[atomic sagebrush]

What dose on the fish oil? Some of the doses given are too high and we have seen a lot of SCH bleeding with it.

The InNatals brand has high doses of the B Vitamins. Since it's a "take 1 capsule twice" you may want to just take one capsule ONCE a day.

We have roughly the same time to conception for successes and opposites. ~Slightly~ faster for opposites, but not dramatically different, and not only have we seen plenty of successful sways with girls the first month out, but additionally many of the women who have all girls have a history of conceiving the first month.

It is such a gift, truly! Perfect attitude! Sending all the pink dust I can muster!

[Cookies22]

Thanks Atomic. Do you have the numbers on first month conception pink sway success rates? I’m making a point of staying away from the statistics thread so that I don’t get all obsessive over my sway, but would love to know what the numbers are on that, especially as I conceived DS2 first try.

I’ll take a look at the fish oil dosage and get back to you. Edit: dosage per 2 capsules is

Total omega 3: 690mg
EPA: 330mg
DHA: 220mg
Other omegas: 140mg

Now I just need to decide if I should be team green or find out! I’ve been leaning toward team green mainly so I can avoid stupid comments from people during my pregnancy (drove me mad my last pregnancy!). But not sure which way is better / easier… I guess both options have their pros and cons!

[atomic sagebrush]

I don't keep statistics on stuff like that because firstly, for most of the years of this site, that would have been a deceptively small group of people. Secondly, people who get pregnant in that first month are not randomly selected - either they get pregnant fast because they're highly fertile, or because they weren't swaying that hard, or both, and aren't representative of the site as a whole. And finally, and most important, I did not want to see people deliberately sitting out the first month of trying for absolutely no reason, thinking things like "well if getting pregnant the first month sways, I'll be sure not to get pregnant/do everything in my power TO get pregnant" when the "getting pregnant" part of it really has nothing to do with the outcome of the sway! Your body has no way to know how many months you've been trying; if getting pregnant fast indicates anything, NOT getting pregnant fast, deliberately, doesn't then mean that the outcome is changed, it's basically an arbitrary thing, if that makes any sense.

I would cut that dose in half since it comes in two capsules. We are seeing SCH forming at that level of intake.

Whenever someone has gender desire I think it's nearly always best to find out. A few people insist that it's better for them not to find out until they have a child to focus on, and I respect that, but overall I find that a very large number people who don't find out, are really doing it to "keep hope alive as long as possible." By hope, they mean a possible fantasy, not just "maybe it's a boy, maybe it's a girl" type of thinking, like they basically pretend for nine months that they're getting the gender they are hoping for because "I'll never have the chance to experience this otherwise". I have been deeply concerned with the level of denial and even outright playacting that some people who are Team Green engage in. Even tho it may be pleasurable while it's going on, it is WORSE than nothing because people feel like they have something that is then taken away.

They allow themselves to think they're having a successful sway as long as possible and then are in for a shock right at the moment of supreme physical, mental, emotional, and hormonal challenge. We have had a small, but concerning minority of people have legitimate mental breakdowns in the delivery room or shortly thereafter (one lady had a wrong reading on an ultrasound so just had a massive shock and she ended up hysterical and having to be sedated, but others simply refused to find out so they could continue believing as long as possible that they were getting the gender they'd hoped for.) Two people that I can think of even ended up hospitalized, one for weeks, another for a couple days. This is obviously not the norm but it has happened.

If you can honestly, truly, keep in mind that it can absolutely be an opposite, and you find it might be helpful to you not to know, that's one thing. But if you're going into Team Green because you just like daydreaming that you're getting a guarantee, you like staying wrapped up in that possibility and just don't want to shatter the illusion, then I strongly suggest finding out. As hard as I try to push back on this, I still regularly have people who are just devastated, blindsided, and simply can't even believe that their sway could have possibly failed. As much as I say there are no guarantees, people do still think they have a guarantee with a "perfect" sway and it's really hard to accept. I see this so often that I just really do believe finding out is best for virtually everyone.

For me, I hadn't found out with my first two (had no gender preference) and for whatever reason, I did with my 3rd. I was SO SURE he was a girl! I "just knew" he was a girl, same as how I'd "just known" my first child was a boy. All the symptoms and signs were there, the stupid Chinese Gender calendar, heartbeat, etc etc and I was absolutely floored and devastated hearing "she" was a he. It was one of the worst moments of my whole life. It really felt like this changeling had basically killed my daughter who I had been so certain was coming. Because I found out, it gave me some time to make peace with it, buy some super cute boy clothes, get my head back on straight because I was being absolutely ridiculous! That little girl that I had imagined wasn't real, had never been real, and I was having feelings of rejection, even rage at this innocent child who had done absolutely nothing wrong at all. And by the time he came, I was ready for his arrival (and a good thing too because OMword he was a handful from minute one! I would so not have wanted to be dealing with a challenging child at the same time I was feeling the grief of gender disappointment).

[Cookies22]

Thanks Atomic, I appreciate your detailed reply. I'll chat to my husband about it, he said he's happy to do whatever I want in terms of finding out or not. We might get gender results at the 10 week test and then keep them in an envelope and read them later in the pregnancy, if we decide to find out. I don't want to find out at a 19 week scan because they're too unreliable!

I think like you say it's all about mentality. I think with DS2 I had subconsciously convinced myself he was a girl, and DH thought he was too because of the swaying, so then it was like whaaaaat when we got the results back. This time I'm going to be much more realistic, because statistically speaking, you know what I mean. I'm definitely not going to spend 9 months convinced it's a girl, if anything I'd be convinced it's a boy.

It's strange because in examining my feelings about this it's really other people's comments and rudeness that gets to me the most, it was their reactions and comments last time that peeved me, so I think if anything it's a sign that I just need to grow a thicker skin. There are lessons in everything. People say stupid stuff, full stop. My best friend has 3 beautiful sons and another good friend of mine has 5 boys, one of whom is best friends with my eldest. They have such gorgeous children. I've always been a highly sensitive person (just like my beautiful DS1), and it's not something that I can change, but I can be aware of it and put it into perspective.

The fatigue and morning sickness has kicked in big time and that always makes me feel emotionally whack too. Last pregnancy I was like YAY BFP and then 2 nights later couldn't sleep having a panic attack about the kids' age gap being too close?! Haha 2.5 years is such a great gap & they get along so well, but I remember phoning the midwife in tears about the age gap worrying it was too close and she just said "honey, you are filled with so many pregnancy hormones right now"... she was right! Re: age gaps, there will be 3 years 2 months between DS2 and this baby, which is exactly the gap I had dreamed of this time around, so feeling very blessed indeed.

Taking things one day at a time, booked my dating scan for mid-April, very excited to see this little being!! Will be good to get out of Covid iso too (3 more days to go), it's raining again here so we all have cabin fever big time!

[treens]

Hi ladies! Popping on here a little early as I should ovulate in 4 days and be on the 2ww.

Congratulations Cookies exciting news for you!!!

Were you trying for a Girl? What do you like or what did you try for your sway?

We are trying for a girl after a successful boy sway, he is just 7 months but I am not getting any younger :) I will be 42 this summer.

[atomic sagebrush]

You mean the 10 week NIPT, right?? Ultrasounds are not reliable at that stage.

:agree: great to go in realistic, that's absolutely for the best. Team Green or not that's the way to go.

The truly weirdest thing about getting my desired gender was this - people STILL said stupid stuff! I had someone look my daughter in the face and say "Four brothers? I sure do feel sorry for YOU!" People still said things about trying for sisters, how lonely she would be, about how old I was, I'd die before she got married, that I should have got a dog/cat/Barbie doll instead, etc etc etc.

I think a lot of us think that the comments are because of our kids' gender, when in reality people just blurt things out. Just like you're saying, it's always something, and even when mostly we can ignore it, the thing is when it's something that already bothers us, well then it BOTHERS us bothers us, KWIM?

Oh yes the pregnancy hormones do wreak havoc! Hang in there, I'm sorry about the morning sickness!! Keep me posted how it's going for you and let me know if you need anything.

[Cookies22]

Thank you so much Atomic. You have no idea how much your words bring me comfort.

I am struggling big time with prenatal hormone-induced anxiety. I expected it as I had the same experience with all 3 of my pregnancies.

Of course it seems impossible for me to not analyse my sway, which is so silly because it's done now! But I was wondering if you could put my mind at ease.

When planning the sway I didn't do a tonne of reading because I already knew a bit from the previous time and I didn't want to get obsessed. I'd heard 0+12 mentioned but then saw a thread where it was dismissed. Now in reading the 'how we got our girls' thread there seem to be a lot of women who got pink with 0+12. I'm wondering if I should have attempted that as I have such clear O pains.

We BD on CD8 and CD11, both in the evening. On the morning of CD11 I got a positive OPK. That afternoon I was trying to decide whether I should BD that night or the next morning. I'm guessing the next morning would have qualified as 0+12 (I had ovulation cramping around 9pm the evening of CD11). However I don't think I could have held myself back from BDing when I felt those cramps. I've read that it takes 10 hours or so for sperm to capacitate, which makes me think that BD the morning of CD12 would have resulted in a BFN because it would literally give like an hour for the capacitated sperm to get an egg? It would be cutting the window so fine wouldn't it?

Then there's also a tiny part of me that thinks if we didn't BD CD11 then we'd have a 3 day cut off with CD8, but I've read that BD 3 days before O is only a 14% chance of conception, pretty low IMO, even if I did have lots of EWCM! I keep thinking back to that day CD11. I had been to a funeral that day and was feeling very much like I wanted to BD because I wanted to connect in with DH (and I got a high reading on the OPK), so it felt right, as did CD8. I think waiting til the next day would have been too scary for me as I was already so thin and wanted to conceive without wasting time, and in previous cycles I'd aimed at a 2 day cut off, not 3 as 3 seems ridiculous low odds for conception. I'm a big believer in intuition and I definitely felt like I wanted to make love on CD 8 and CD11. A 3 day cut off probably would have resulted in a BFN even though I did feel wet down there. I just wonder though, because it seems like my DH has super sperm, so maybe we could have conceived a girl with a 3 day cut off? There are so many conflicting reports on different forums, some women swear it worked for them multiple times etc. I guess if Shettles really did work or there was any obvious pattern then Fertility Friend charts would all demonstrate it!

At least I think with this approach I have balls in both parks; there's a possibility that the CD8 sperm fertilised the egg and also a possibility that CD11 got it. I know I can get an opposite with literally 1 attempt 1 day before O (that's my DS2!), so I have to let go of the idea of having done a 3 day cut off alone. It's just hard because I know a couple of women who have conceived girls this way, by DTD just after they finished their period and conceived pink. It's hard not to think 'why didn't I just try what she did?'. There will always be something that we could have changed, with any sway. I think that's what makes swaying hard.

I think a lot of my worries are triggered by my past experience, stressing about our one attempt one day before O. Makes me wonder if cut offs work for some and not for others... my DS1 we BD every single day from AF to AF (I had gained weight recently though after getting married), DS2 was one attempt 1 day before O, but I had only been on the diet for 10-11 weeks. This time I've been on the diet 14 weeks but have been losing weight for much longer, around 5 months, no breakfast for a year, consistently exercising and losing weight, and I conceived this baby at a my lowest ever adult BMI of 17.1 (honestly I was worried about losing O, I'm so thin).

Sorry for my rambling, I think I need to spend some time thinking seriously about the benefits of each scenario, because they're both wonderful, the idea of 3 little boys growing up together sounds quite storybook to me too. It's really just the feeling of 'did I stuff it up / would it have been a different outcome if I'd had a cut off etc' and other people's comments that get me, but as you say, people say dumb things ALL the time regardless. I know a woman who has 1 kid and gets criticised for that, someone with 5 boys, and a friend of mine who has a girl and 3 boys and everyone kept saying "poor Skylar" (her daughter). So you're right! People are jerks! Haha.

Thanks for cruising with me while I ride all the waves. Hormones are wild. I guess I'm just worried I stuffed things up timing-wise. But I know you've seen HUNDREDS of sways and you know that Shettles does not work, regardless of how many times you try it!

EDIT: I just re-read my original post on 'back after an opposite' and going into this, my whole approach was intended to be an 'invisible' sway, so knowing that I wanted it invisible & relaxed, that's what I definitely got, doing the BD when we felt like it (luckily fell into e4D), along with consistent weight loss, exercise and LE for 14+ weeks. That makes me feel better, like this is precisely how it is supposed to be.

[Thefinalcountdown]

I don't keep statistics on stuff like that because firstly, for most of the years of this site, that would have been a deceptively small group of people. Secondly, people who get pregnant in that first month are not randomly selected - either they get pregnant fast because they're highly fertile, or because they weren't swaying that hard, or both, and aren't representative of the site as a whole. And finally, and most important, I did not want to see people deliberately sitting out the first month of trying for absolutely no reason, thinking things like "well if getting pregnant the first month sways, I'll be sure not to get pregnant/do everything in my power TO get pregnant" when the "getting pregnant" part of it really has nothing to do with the outcome of the sway! Your body has no way to know how many months you've been trying; if getting pregnant fast indicates anything, NOT getting pregnant fast, deliberately, doesn't then mean that the outcome is changed, it's basically an arbitrary thing, if that makes any sense.

I would cut that dose in half since it comes in two capsules. We are seeing SCH forming at that level of intake.

Whenever someone has gender desire I think it's nearly always best to find out. A few people insist that it's better for them not to find out until they have a child to focus on, and I respect that, but overall I find that a very large number people who don't find out, are really doing it to "keep hope alive as long as possible." By hope, they mean a possible fantasy, not just "maybe it's a boy, maybe it's a girl" type of thinking, like they basically pretend for nine months that they're getting the gender they are hoping for because "I'll never have the chance to experience this otherwise". I have been deeply concerned with the level of denial and even outright playacting that some people who are Team Green engage in. Even tho it may be pleasurable while it's going on, it is WORSE than nothing because people feel like they have something that is then taken away.

They allow themselves to think they're having a successful sway as long as possible and then are in for a shock right at the moment of supreme physical, mental, emotional, and hormonal challenge. We have had a small, but concerning minority of people have legitimate mental breakdowns in the delivery room or shortly thereafter (one lady had a wrong reading on an ultrasound so just had a massive shock and she ended up hysterical and having to be sedated, but others simply refused to find out so they could continue believing as long as possible that they were getting the gender they'd hoped for.) Two people that I can think of even ended up hospitalized, one for weeks, another for a couple days. This is obviously not the norm but it has happened.

If you can honestly, truly, keep in mind that it can absolutely be an opposite, and you find it might be helpful to you not to know, that's one thing. But if you're going into Team Green because you just like daydreaming that you're getting a guarantee, you like staying wrapped up in that possibility and just don't want to shatter the illusion, then I strongly suggest finding out. As hard as I try to push back on this, I still regularly have people who are just devastated, blindsided, and simply can't even believe that their sway could have possibly failed. As much as I say there are no guarantees, people do still think they have a guarantee with a "perfect" sway and it's really hard to accept. I see this so often that I just really do believe finding out is best for virtually everyone.

For me, I hadn't found out with my first two (had no gender preference) and for whatever reason, I did with my 3rd. I was SO SURE he was a girl! I "just knew" he was a girl, same as how I'd "just known" my first child was a boy. All the symptoms and signs were there, the stupid Chinese Gender calendar, heartbeat, etc etc and I was absolutely floored and devastated hearing "she" was a he. It was one of the worst moments of my whole life. It really felt like this changeling had basically killed my daughter who I had been so certain was coming. Because I found out, it gave me some time to make peace with it, buy some super cute boy clothes, get my head back on straight because I was being absolutely ridiculous! That little girl that I had imagined wasn't real, had never been real, and I was having feelings of rejection, even rage at this innocent child who had done absolutely nothing wrong at all. And by the time he came, I was ready for his arrival (and a good thing too because OMword he was a handful from minute one! I would so not have wanted to be dealing with a challenging child at the same time I was feeling the grief of gender disappointment).

I couldn’t agree more!!! As a thrice team greener here, you should definitely find out unless you totally absolutely do not care! With my first two, a girl then a boy, it was great I hd no preconceived ideas about what I wanted and we knew we’d have more kids anyways. Then my third we really wanted another boy (our girl was going through the very sassy age of 5) so when my husband said it’s a girl on the operating table my heart sank and what a stupid, selfish, ungrateful place to be in when they’re handing you a perfectly healthy gorgeous little blonde hair blue eyed girl baby to feel like you failed. Then be isolated in the hospital for 4 days in a weird depressed place dealing with whatever in my mind I had made up should be. I pray for forgiveness every day for not feeling over the moon thankful to God for giving me such an incredible gift!! Anyways, if you feel even the slightest like you rather have one over the other even a fraction, just find out as soon as possible in the privacy of your own home (I’ve seen numerous gender reveals with very disappointed reactions on social media, um what about when that kid sees it one day!) praying we get a healthy babies! [emoji3590] [emoji171]


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[Cookies22]

That's great advice and insight, thanks @Thefinalcountdown!

[Cookies22]

Thank you so much Atomic. You have no idea how much your words bring me comfort.

I am struggling big time with prenatal hormone-induced anxiety. I expected it as I had the same experience with all 3 of my pregnancies.

Of course it seems impossible for me to not analyse my sway, which is so silly because it's done now! But I was wondering if you could put my mind at ease.

When planning the sway I didn't do a tonne of reading because I already knew a bit from the previous time and I didn't want to get obsessed. I'd heard 0+12 mentioned but then saw a thread where it was dismissed. Now in reading the 'how we got our girls' thread there seem to be a lot of women who got pink with 0+12. I'm wondering if I should have attempted that as I have such clear O pains.

We BD on CD8 and CD11, both in the evening. On the morning of CD11 I got a positive OPK. That afternoon I was trying to decide whether I should BD that night or the next morning. I'm guessing the next morning would have qualified as 0+12 (I had ovulation cramping around 9pm the evening of CD11). However I don't think I could have held myself back from BDing when I felt those cramps. I've read that it takes 10 hours or so for sperm to capacitate, which makes me think that BD the morning of CD12 would have resulted in a BFN because it would literally give like an hour for the capacitated sperm to get an egg? It would be cutting the window so fine wouldn't it?

Then there's also a tiny part of me that thinks if we didn't BD CD11 then we'd have a 3 day cut off with CD8, but I've read that BD 3 days before O is only a 14% chance of conception, pretty low IMO, even if I did have lots of EWCM! I keep thinking back to that day CD11. I had been to a funeral that day and was feeling very much like I wanted to BD because I wanted to connect in with DH (and I got a high reading on the OPK), so it felt right, as did CD8. I think waiting til the next day would have been too scary for me as I was already so thin and wanted to conceive without wasting time, and in previous cycles I'd aimed at a 2 day cut off, not 3 as 3 seems ridiculous low odds for conception. I'm a big believer in intuition and I definitely felt like I wanted to make love on CD 8 and CD11. A 3 day cut off probably would have resulted in a BFN even though I did feel wet down there. I just wonder though, because it seems like my DH has super sperm, so maybe we could have conceived a girl with a 3 day cut off? There are so many conflicting reports on different forums, some women swear it worked for them multiple times etc. I guess if Shettles really did work or there was any obvious pattern then Fertility Friend charts would all demonstrate it!

At least I think with this approach I have balls in both parks; there's a possibility that the CD8 sperm fertilised the egg and also a possibility that CD11 got it. I know I can get an opposite with literally 1 attempt 1 day before O (that's my DS2!), so I have to let go of the idea of having done a 3 day cut off alone. It's just hard because I know a couple of women who have conceived girls this way, by DTD just after they finished their period and conceived pink. It's hard not to think 'why didn't I just try what she did?'. There will always be something that we could have changed, with any sway. I think that's what makes swaying hard.

I think a lot of my worries are triggered by my past experience, stressing about our one attempt one day before O. Makes me wonder if cut offs work for some and not for others... my DS1 we BD every single day from AF to AF (I had gained weight recently though after getting married), DS2 was one attempt 1 day before O, but I had only been on the diet for 10-11 weeks. This time I've been on the diet 14 weeks but have been losing weight for much longer, around 5 months, no breakfast for a year, consistently exercising and losing weight, and I conceived this baby at a my lowest ever adult BMI of 17.1 (honestly I was worried about losing O, I'm so thin).

Sorry for my rambling, I think I need to spend some time thinking seriously about the benefits of each scenario, because they're both wonderful, the idea of 3 little boys growing up together sounds quite storybook to me too. It's really just the feeling of 'did I stuff it up / would it have been a different outcome if I'd had a cut off etc' and other people's comments that get me, but as you say, people say dumb things ALL the time regardless. I know a woman who has 1 kid and gets criticised for that, someone with 5 boys, and a friend of mine who has a girl and 3 boys and everyone kept saying "poor Skylar" (her daughter). So you're right! People are jerks! Haha.

Thanks for cruising with me while I ride all the waves. Hormones are wild. I guess I'm just worried I stuffed things up timing-wise. But I know you've seen HUNDREDS of sways and you know that Shettles does not work, regardless of how many times you try it!

EDIT: I just re-read my original post on 'back after an opposite' and going into this, my whole approach was intended to be an 'invisible' sway, so knowing that I wanted it invisible & relaxed, that's what I definitely got, doing the BD when we felt like it (luckily fell into e4D), along with consistent weight loss, exercise and LE for 14+ weeks. That makes me feel better, like this is precisely how it is supposed to be.

In reading up on Shettles attempts I've also noticed a LOT of women seem to have miscarriages when they have long cut-offs? They try to do cut offs for ages, are stoked with a BFP and then lose the baby (and give up on timing altogether). It does make sense to me as the sperm remaining after such a long time wouldn't be the healthiest, and I am alllll about healthy fresh sperm.

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Ok I'm posting way too much today �� but I have been researching online and have a folder on my phone now of literally dozens of people saying that they timed everything perfectly for a girl according to Shettles, massive huge cut offs and got a boy, and then DTD on ovulation day and got a girl. I think the annoying thing is how common this incorrect theory is! I even found a fertility site that was 'debunking fertility myths' and it said that Shettles is true! Blimey! No wonder we're all so confused! Anyway, now I have this fabulous folder to scroll through if I wake up in the night anxious about my sway timing.

I think there's that part of me that thinks if this babe is a boy we should have tried a long cut off because we've never had one... but other studies like the NZ study show more girls conceived on O day, so who knows!

https://theconversation.com/mondays-medical-myth-you-can-control-the-sex-of-your-baby-12896

[atomic sagebrush]

In reading up on Shettles attempts I've also noticed a LOT of women seem to have miscarriages when they have long cut-offs? They try to do cut offs for ages, are stoked with a BFP and then lose the baby (and give up on timing altogether). It does make sense to me as the sperm remaining after such a long time wouldn't be the healthiest, and I am alllll about healthy fresh sperm.

Keep in mind that most of these people have no idea when they ovulated in relation to O (and neither do we). Most of the people who THINK they got pregnant with long cutoffs ovulated sooner than they thought, or had an attempt they thought was after ovulation that was actually the one that ended in pregnancy.

Sperm is meant to survive for a while inside the female body. It has some primitive form of communication by which it can sort of organize its individual constituents into a bit of a schedule, so there are always sperm sitting there dormant and others that are ready to fertilize the egg, until they've all capacitated and died. (After capacitation, the sperm is hyperactive and desperately seeking an egg, and they use up their energy reserves and die after that) Until the sperm loses its protective cap, it's relatively protected from harm, so the sperm that are in the repro tract for days are believed to simply be sleeping, safe, until it's their turn. The DNA is NOT harmed because the genetic material had already divided a long time ago.

Something that occurs to me is that people who go on a long time not getting pregnant, can definitely be from long cutoffs, but it can also be from people with lower egg quality or sperm health/numbers overall. This could easily predispose this group to have more losses. Additionally, I would point out that people who do long cutoffs are also very very likely to be doing lots of other sway tactics, some of which actually may harm sperm quality (long abstains, harsh supplements) or their ability to get pregnant successfully (herbs, really restrictive diets) When we look at people who insist on long cutoffs for months/years, they are not the average person and are often into much more extreme swaying methods on the whole. And finally, when women have losses, they often look back and search for reasons to explain those losses, typically things that they can easily change in the future (no one wants to have another loss, and this is completely understandable). People often misremember how much coffee they drank, how long their abstain or cutoff was, etc. Not all of them, but enough to muddy the waters for sure, and I've actually repeatedly seen this happen with my own eyes where I could go back and look at people's FF charts and see exactly when they had sex in relation to O, but months later they're sure they had a 6 day cutoff when really they only had a 3 day cutoff.

Long story short, I think you did have a very good attempt, but just didn't want you or anyone to read anything in here because we may not be able to see a trend from any of that.

[nightingale2011]

Keep in mind that most of these people have no idea when they ovulated in relation to O (and neither do we). Most of the people who THINK they got pregnant with long cutoffs ovulated sooner than they thought, or had an attempt they thought was after ovulation that was actually the one that ended in pregnancy.

Sperm is meant to survive for a while inside the female body. It has some primitive form of communication by which it can sort of organize its individual constituents into a bit of a schedule, so there are always sperm sitting there dormant and others that are ready to fertilize the egg, until they've all capacitated and died. (After capacitation, the sperm is hyperactive and desperately seeking an egg, and they use up their energy reserves and die after that) Until the sperm loses its protective cap, it's relatively protected from harm, so the sperm that are in the repro tract for days are believed to simply be sleeping, safe, until it's their turn. The DNA is NOT harmed because the genetic material had already divided a long time ago.

Something that occurs to me is that people who go on a long time not getting pregnant, can definitely be from long cutoffs, but it can also be from people with lower egg quality or sperm health/numbers overall. This could easily predispose this group to have more losses. Additionally, I would point out that people who do long cutoffs are also very very likely to be doing lots of other sway tactics, some of which actually may harm sperm quality (long abstains, harsh supplements) or their ability to get pregnant successfully (herbs, really restrictive diets) When we look at people who insist on long cutoffs for months/years, they are not the average person and are often into much more extreme swaying methods on the whole. And finally, when women have losses, they often look back and search for reasons to explain those losses, typically things that they can easily change in the future (no one wants to have another loss, and this is completely understandable). People often misremember how much coffee they drank, how long their abstain or cutoff was, etc. Not all of them, but enough to muddy the waters for sure, and I've actually repeatedly seen this happen with my own eyes where I could go back and look at people's FF charts and see exactly when they had sex in relation to O, but months later they're sure they had a 6 day cutoff when really they only had a 3 day cutoff.

Long story short, I think you did have a very good attempt, but just didn't want you or anyone to read anything in here because we may not be able to see a trend from any of that.I am new here I am mom of 2 girls and I found I am pregnant again with #3 last week my ovulation was around 7th march I have seen alot gender sway methods like bdm and shettles and lunar gender swaying and diet too to be honest I am bit confused and i didnt do any of that they seem to be too much work and stressing. Thanks for debunking these false theories that kinda harmful sometimes.

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[atomic sagebrush]

Ok I'm posting way too much today �� but I have been researching online and have a folder on my phone now of literally dozens of people saying that they timed everything perfectly for a girl according to Shettles, massive huge cut offs and got a boy, and then DTD on ovulation day and got a girl. I think the annoying thing is how common this incorrect theory is! I even found a fertility site that was 'debunking fertility myths' and it said that Shettles is true! Blimey! No wonder we're all so confused! Anyway, now I have this fabulous folder to scroll through if I wake up in the night anxious about my sway timing.

I think there's that part of me that thinks if this babe is a boy we should have tried a long cut off because we've never had one... but other studies like the NZ study show more girls conceived on O day, so who knows!

https://theconversation.com/mondays-medical-myth-you-can-control-the-sex-of-your-baby-12896

Yep. True for me! I have a very regular cycle. My first son I got from sex right after my period ended, my second son my husband changed his mind about TTC and we stopped having sex days before we thought I was even fertile, my 3rd son was a Shettles opposite (my husband wasn't even HOME when I ovulated) and my 4th son was a sneak attack, who even knows when I got him LOL. Then with my daughter, it was late at night (like 1am or so) on O-1, which is technically O Day. (not from trying to sway because I no longer believed in timing at all, just because it worked out that way)

Back before I got into this, when I would tell people "but I got three boys with cutoffs, how can this work" (or with tons of dairy, which I also had with all my boys) they'd say something like "well, your body just works the opposite". But seriously - if some of our bodies "just work the opposite" then how the heck can any of these tactics be reliable sway methods?? Either these things work for everyone, and then they're just not 100% guarantee like the claims are made, or they don't. There can't be anything worth doing, that works flawlessly for some people and then other people's bodies are "just working the opposite".

The state of science here in 2022 (on the Internetz especially) is pretty sad really. Anything where there's ever been a study that seemed to find a correlation, even when it's later debunked, disproven, revealed even to be an outright fraud, is touted by some sites as true. And Shettles, by virtue of being so highly publicized, has been harder to get rid of than an infestation of dandelions. But Dr. Shettles died a long time ago, and he was very old then and not doing science for a while prior. Everyone in our lifetimes claiming the mantle of "Shettles" did so to make money on the man's good name (because Shettles was wrong, he wasn't a charlatan) and they did it without his approval. If he was alive today I know he would have moved on from his method because it just doesn't work!

You're absolutely right, there are studies (and more than that one mentioned there) that show slightly more girls conceived around O, and additionally there are many many more than show 50-50 boys and girls conceived every cycle day. When researchers took Dr. Shettles OWN data and used modern understanding of ovulation charting to properly calculate ovulation, it was still 50-50 with the data he himself collected. MOST of the few that claim to prove otherwise, when you read them you can see that Clomid was used for those who wanted girls and IUI was used for those who wanted boys (huge confounder).

Just because I haven't blathered on enough, LOL, I do want to point out to people that timing doesn't sway. Period. The findings in a couple studies that purport to show "more girls conceived around O, more boys with cutoffs" are also misleading. If, as I strongly believe is the case, what this is all coming down to is "the fertility factor" where couples that are superfertile are having more boys, and couples that are still fertile but just less so are having more girls, it would therefore be the case that people who COULD conceive with longer cutoffs are by definition more fertile, meaning they'd have more boys, not because of the cutoff, but because the overall higher fertility of both parties (higher sperm count, better sperm health, better EWCM and more of it to enable sperm to survive those long cutoffs). And those who could only conceive around O may be coming in more likely to have girls to start with and were only able to get pregnant very close to the egg dropping (lower and less healthy sperm, less EWCM, etc) Just gotta toss that out there before anyone reads this and thinks "aha, see, timing DOES sway, it's just that it's reversed, so now I'm going to try for a boy with a 6 day cutoff!" No. Don't do that. Long cutoffs will often equate to one attempt, because most of the sperm will be long gone before the egg ever shows up. That's if you could even get pregnant that way, which you are most likely not able to. Stick with 3-5 attempts in the fertile window for blue.

Timing is BY FAR the most studied element of gender swaying. Studied by responsible researchers doing good work, too. If there was anything to it, anything at all, it would be completely proven by now, because it's EASY. Timing is simple and obvious (which is why people love it so) and is tailor-made to be proven in studies and in the real world. (unlike diet, which is much more complicated due to the endless levels of variation of what human beings eat!) That timing isn't proven, that we're all still sitting here discussing it so many years after Shettles first looked through a microscope and mistook capacitated and uncapacitated sperm for Y and X sperm, simply indicates that it doesn't work. Things that are cut and dry obvious like timing, show clear and repeatable results in labs and in the real world. Anything simple to study, where some researchers are finding one result, other researchers are finding the opposite, is evidence that the "thing" in question is not true.

[atomic sagebrush]

Actually, I'd guess THOUSANDS of timing opposites by this point! Fifteen years on swaying sites is a LONNNNNG time, LOL. My GD baby just had his 14th birthday and I had a moment of shock realizing how long I've been thinking about gender swaying, ai yi yi! The obsessiveness runs strong in me, it's no wonder I have four boys LOL.

O+12 is without a doubt my absolute, complete, least favorite sway tactic. (like, I'd rather see people douche than do O+12, no joke). I have a full debunking of it here: https://genderdreaming.com/forum/trying-to-conceive-a-girl/35539-no-12-a.html It is terrible. It is unscientific, impossible to get it right, is based on the literal stupidest set of information known to mankind (one woman who was swaying in a bunch of other ways, and a poorly done study with math mistakes, without proper determination of when ovulation took place, in which allegedly a whopping TWO people claimed to conceive at ovulation) it prevents conception, it drives completely sane and rational people to become massive control freaks (thereby swaying blue more than if they'd done nothing), if you believe in timing you're having an attempt that would SWAY BLUE according to Shettles, it is THE UTTER WORST and I promise you missed absolutely nothing but a lot of BFN by skipping it.

In short, I hate it.

People in those threads a) have no idea when they DTD in relation to O, because unless they had an ultrasound, they don't know when the egg dropped, and b) are simply ASSUMING that's when they had sex because it's a sway tactic they heard of. That's what everyone does in those "how we got girls/boys" (even me! I think I mentioned how much sodium I ate, and I don't even BELIEVE in sodium for swaying!) because we figure that people who are considering swaying would be interested in the information!

Please do not now go over your sway looking for O+12. You cannot tell when you had sex in relation to O by any method other than ultrasound - not before or after the fact. OPK and O cramps - neither of them are at all reliable! I think the odds that you had sex at O+12 were slim to none based on when the pos OPK came but that's actually GOOD because you would not have conceived if you had an O+12 attempt.

Now, to clarify about sperm capacitation, sperm capacitates in waves. The time it takes a deposit to first begin to capacitate has been found anywhere from 3 hours to 24 hours and subsequent waves of capacitation occur even beyond that (uncapacitated sperm lasts for 2-3 days in the repro tract of course) No one knows why, and it may be that there's something in the female reproductive tract that governs this process. (by the way, another reason why O+12 can't work, cause what if you're the person who didn't see the sperm capacitate for a whole entire day! ZERO chance of conception)

Also keep in mind that it's not only that sperm take time to capacitate, but they also need to make it to the egg, and the sperm that get there first are often dead on arrival, and can't fertilize anything. There is NO GUARANTEE that the egg will live twelve hours. The whole "eggs live 24 hours" thing is not true, it's for purposes of preventing conception with natural family planning. Scientists imagined (IMAGINED!) a theoretical (THEORETICAL) upper limit of eggs possibly surviving, and then use that as a way not to achieve conception, but to prevent it. Most eggs do not live 24 hours, most eggs probably don't live 12.
If human beings were meant to conceive with one shot 12 hours after ovulation, let alone that most of the girls ever conceived were due to that timing (this makes no sense at all!) the reproductive tract would be straight and the sperm would be delivered right to the egg. Some animals do actually have physical structures that are more straightforwward in delivering sperm to egg quickly. But instead, humans conceive the vast majority of babies, boy and girl alike, from sperm that was there in advance of or shortly after O, giving the sperm time to get to the egg, capacitate, and lie in wait for Miss Eggo.

I think it's extremely unlikely, as I mentioned before, that anything was left from CD 8.

I conceived a baby right after I had my period, and it was a boy. And I don't have long periods, either. Additionally there are also a set of old studies from Shettles days that showed long cutoffs = boys and some people were even still trying that back on Ingender sometimes.

I explained most of this in my other post, but if "cutoffs work for some people and not others" that effectively means "cut offs don't work."

I know where you're sitting right now it's easy to say "woulda coulda shoulda" but the catch is, that going on months and months not conceiving has actual consequences. You don't see that right now because you did get pregnant, but were I to allow/encourage anyone to chase these ridick, impossible sway tactics like DTD after their period or O+12, both of which have such utterly slim chance of conception for the average person, it would be a disaster. Firstly because as the BFN mount, people start to freak out and give up on the things that ACTUALLY work chasing tactics that do nothing and prevent conception, and also because they lose too much weight (which, you were definitely flirting with this situation big time! Oh gosh no breakfast for a year???) and end up stopping ovulation, and have to basically sway blue just to get their cycles going again.

I will say this, and I don't say it to be negative or to contribute to your anxiety, because truly you had a fine sway and every chance of a girl - if you do get an opposite, it's due to the detail oriented nature of these questions and not being able to let go of control. You're still trying to control, micromanage, and overanalyze your sway to a fairly unusual degree. Everyone does it somewhat, and that is ok (and trying to completely eliminate it is only a different form of control freakishness!) but then some people begin to fall into my "Danger Will Robinson" category. You're not in my top 10 or 20 people, maybe not even in the top 50, but top 100...ehhhh, maybe?!? Again - a fine sway, every chance of a girl, but the control freakishness of these questions is what jumps out to me if I had to locate a fault to single out here.

So if as you're saying, that this feels in retrospect like a chillaxed, invisible sway, that is GREAT. I am thrilled to read that. That is exactly where I would want you to be mentally. If this is just pregnancy hormones kicking in, and you weren't feeling quite so control freaky when you conceived, that's fabulous.

Yep that's just it - everyone has something to say, always, it's just that it stings when it feels like lemon juice in the cut that we already have due to our gender desire! People say things to people with no kids, one kid, too many kids, all one or all the other, even with pigeon pairs people are like "but Kylie needs a sister/Trevor needs a brother". It just never ends and so it's best to learn to handle comments since it's apparently impossible to prevent them!

[atomic sagebrush]

I am new here I am mom of 2 girls and I found I am pregnant again with #3 last week my ovulation was around 7th march I have seen alot gender sway methods like bdm and shettles and lunar gender swaying and diet too to be honest I am bit confused and i didnt do any of that they seem to be too much work and stressing. Thanks for debunking these false theories that kinda harmful sometimes.

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Debunking false theories is what I live to do!

I am happy to go over (or link to you where I have already gone over) all these things so just let me know if you would like me to do that!

[Cookies22]

Thanks Atomic. I guess I worry now that we are one of those super fertile couples (falling preg first try with #2 and #3) which makes me more blue friendly, and therefore a cut off would have reduced some of my DH’s mega sperm count and therefore swayed pink? BUT for all I know my uncharacteristically early O (never ovulated that early in my life!) could have been my body’s way of saying ‘her fertility is declining, we need to make a girl to replace her’ lol

I was definitely not obsessing over my sway at the time and was very relaxed hence now looking back and thinking ‘why didn’t I consider that?’.

I guess if you’ve fallen preg 3 days before O then it could have happened for me too? Too late now and gosh I’m not the type of person to suddenly say ‘I’m ovulating, let’s switch tactics and try shettles’… after DH hesitating the month before I was very keen to get pregnant and avoid a Christmas baby!

It’s definitely my pregnancy hormones kicking in… I haven’t worried about any of these things up until now, I actually thought when I got my BFP well that’s a great shot / decent sway from why I’ve read… it’s only now that these hormones are flying around that I’m feeling this way �� I had the same experience last time when I found out DS2 is a beautiful boy, I started stressing about why didn’t I try Shettles, so I think a lot of it is just old anxiety rearing it’s ugly head. I actually found an amazing counsellor when pregnant with DS2 and we worked through a lot of that anxiety, so I’m glad I have her on hand this time too.

It's hard when you've conceived two DS around ovulation to DTD this time around O again and not stress, but honestly if it were down to that then I guess everyone who used a ClearBlue Ov Prediction kit would have sons! Hoping my weight loss swayed... do you have any idea how important the various factors are? I know diet, exercise, 1 attempt are all important, do you think all 3 factors are equally important? Or one is more important than the other? I definitely lost a tonne of weight & was 'declining' for a good few months, so hoping that works in my favour. I tried adding my sway but it asks me to confirm gender before I can add it? Is there any way I can add without saying our results?

[atomic sagebrush]

But it doesn't sway pink, that's the thing. Even with super fertile couples, they're still getting about 50-50, and even on O timing it's also about 50-50. The study that found "more girls conceived" was by a very small margin. I simply need for people to not read that and then think "oh ok timing does sway but it's the opposite". Not applicable to your sway, I'm trying to look out for other people who will read this post (in many cases years later) and then either come to me asking about this, or worse, simply go ahead without talking about it with me. (I really do have people come to me about posts like this, so I have learned over the years to be proactive)

You need to keep in mind, though, that first of all getting pregnant with a long cutoff is unusual, not at all the norm. And secondly, when you are doing things to sway it is entirely, entirely likely that you have less ability for sperm to stay alive inside you for very long. And finally, the earlier it is in the cycle, the less ability the sperm have to stay alive. An attempt on CD 8 was all but 100% not viable. It just doesn't happen. Even if you have some EWCM, the vaginal environment is

CD 8 was not "3 days before ovulation". You got a positive OPK on CD 11 which means CD 12 or 13 ovulation. You're basing your belief that you had an attempt 3 days before O on the basis of O pains, which are just not reliable. I suspect that CD 8 was too early because the fertile window generally doesn't open that early and O was CD 12/13 anyway.

:agree: Yes I completely agree with your assessment re DH. The more people hem and haw, their husband starts thinking "hmm well maybe ~I~ don't want to do this, and she seems unsure, and this is all getting very odd, I've changed my mind" Even with otherwise kind and decent hubbies, this does happen.

I can't really characterize the amount or importance of the various sway tactics. You didn't have two attempts anyway!

[atomic sagebrush]

Oh and yes that's the thing - of course boys are conceived "around O" because ALL babies are conceived around O! Both boys and girls, most of the children ever conceived are in a very narrow window of time in the cycle. So it's really misleading to look back and think "but I got this baby around O" because it's true of everyone!

[Cookies22]

That's SO true! Oh my gosh, I was literally just thinking that today too. To nit pick between 0-1 or 0-2 or 0-3 is crazy because they're all basically the same anyway and we can't even know when we ovulate.

I was thinking hypothetically, ok, so say I had decided to sway shettles style... I would never have chosen to go with a 3 day cut off! Which would have meant skipping a month down the gurgler for nothing! And as you say, I probably ovulated CD 12 or 13, I had cramps late in the evening of CD11, which would mean O would at least be CD12, morning or afternoon of CD12, not 11, which would be a FOUR day cut off for sperm and nobody's getting preg with that.

I read on the Clearblue website that after a positive clear blue OPK you're fertile for the next two days, which means I could have easily had a 1 or 2 day cut off this cycle without realising. With DS2 I BD one day, had cramps at the same time on the following day, but my temp didn't rise until a day later. I'm bloody glad I didn't temp this cycle because OPKs do my head in enough!

I think all the women I know who say they fell pregnant according to Shettles did so because it was a 1 attempt baby. That would explain why so many 'whoopsies' seem to be girls (but I also know a TONNE who are boys too).

I also realised the 0+12 theory is surely just people falling pregnant by DTD on ovulation day? We BD a couple of hours before I had ovulation cramps... by the time the egg had dropped and most of the sperm had capacitated, it would have probably been around 10 hours after the egg drop, which would mean theoretically 0+12?!

Like there's literally no way to know what timing you actually did other than DTD at Pos OPK!

I think the reason I've been ruminating so hard over it is mainly because of pregnancy hormones and because DS2 was conceived first try, 1 day before O, while swaying. This time I have been on the diet longer and have lost quite a bit more weight (4.8kg lost over 5 months (14 weeks of which was LE) rather than 1.7kg over 11 weeks last time) and was drinking every night, exercising 6 days a week for 1 hour. Just feels like so much is similar / the same as last time, if you know what I mean. But honestly, my adoring, affectionate, devoted sons are the loves of my life. I will be honoured to have another and feel very blessed that whoever has chosen me, has chosen me. LUCKY ME!

[atomic sagebrush]

Yes exactly!! 100% agree!

The Clearblue stuff is just a ballpark too. We see by far more people ovulating even 3 days after the first positive than we do <24 hours after. The OPK just are not that precise. So it was at least 1 day, entirely likely 2, and possibly 2 1/2-3. This is why I HATE to see people trying with those "before positive OPK" cutoffs. I simply do not see people conceiving that way.

:agree: about the one attempt babies and Shettles. I just die inside when I see blue swayers trying Shettles because I know it sways at least somewhat blue for them. It's actually a miracle that anyone ever got boys with Shettles blue timing but I assume it's because people who were either daily sex people (Then again, literally everyone I know IRL who tried Shettles for a boy had a girl, so...)

Yes that's absolutely right. That is in no small part why I like one attempt at first pos so well. There's no guesswork, there's no "maybe I did this, maybe I did that", it's EASY so people aren't obsessing over their cervical position, the type and amount of CM (none of which is reliable anyway). OPK of course have their limitations but it's really the only REAL thing we have to go off of.

It's so hard to let go of some of these strategies! But you did make some very real changes (and you didn't mention this, but the difference between standard and alternate LE Diet has been HUGE in terms of changing outcomes after a sway opposite) and I think you're sitting pretty with a great chance of pink.

[Cookies22]

Hi Atomic, just letting you know I'm having a miscarriage. I'm heartbroken. It's been a very hard morning. I loved that little baby so much already & our family felt complete with it in it.

I don't know what to do now, other than be gentle with myself and nourish my body as much as I can because I'm so thin. I likely need to gain some weight back so that I can be fertile enough to fall pregnant and maintain a pregnancy. This is my first time experiencing this and it's so hard, I'm just so very sad. I spoke to my old obgyn and he said it's sad but don't worry, that I'm obviously fertile because I fell pregnant easily with 2 and 3, so just take it easy. I’ve also read that underweight women are much more likely to miscarry, so I am trying not to blame myself but it’s in my mind there as you’d imagine.

I don't know if I want to do any sway stuff anymore, the exercise and low nutrient etc, I'm trying to work out if it even matters to me... I don't know, I'm just processing it all I guess. Such a strange feeling.

[atomic sagebrush]

Oh no I'm so sorry to read this.

While I do definitely think you're too thin and I'd love to see you gain a bit of weight back, the chances that you caused this loss are really just non-existent. Please don't beat yourself up over this. People will see disruptions in their cycle LONG before a pregnancy would not work out due to low weight. That you were ovulating regularly and got pregnant easily indicates this had nothing whatsoever to do with your weight and was most likely (as most losses are) a chromosomal abnormality that was totally unavoidable.

If you do want to try and sway in a healthier way, with gaining some weight back as we go, I am happy to help you do that but I don't want to try and sell you on it. Just let me know. We have had many people who lost too much and I do have many tricks up my sleeve in terms of gaining weight back. But I would urge you to continue with full fat dairy and whole grains, and not having gobs of sugar either. That is going to help you with egg quality anyway and it's also more pink-friendly than a quick and "dirty" sugar/carb fueled weight gain would be.

Take care of yourself and let me know how I can help.

[treens]

cookies Im so sorry for your loss. You did nothing wrong at all. There was just something that wasn't right. You are totally aloud to grieve and feel the way you do. But when you are ready there is a bright world out there waiting for you to be a mother again. Big hugs and healing energy to you :bighug:

[Cookies22]

Thank you both so much, Atomic and Treens. It’s so painful and so sad, it’s amazing the way you really do love your baby so strongly from the moment they are two pink lines on a pregnancy test. I feel like I’m missing someone I never got to meet. We had a dating scan booked & they were due December 4. Everything felt so perfect, the age gap is just what I’d dreamed of for #2 and 3 and now I know that if I’m lucky enough to fall pregnant again, it’s going to be so much harder, I will be so anxious and I already suffer from prenatal anxiety. It’s a scary road huh. Part of me wishes we’d started trying earlier because I worry about a big gap between 2 and 3 (my first two are 2.5 years apart and my youngest is now 2.5 years old himself). But DH hasn’t been ready til now so I don’t think I had any other choice.

I’ve weighed myself this morning and I’m not as thin as I thought I was — 56.4kg today. I think I’m just going to eat as normal while I pass this pregnancy, then see how I feel after that. I feel like I need the strength from food.

I’ve read you’re more fertile than usual for the 3 months following a loss, so I do want to keep trying, just not obsessively, so I might use OPKs after a week or so because I have them here anyway. That way I can give it a shot if we feel like it on a day when I get a positive. I've also read losses sway pink, is that true Atomic?

I'm not sure when I’ll return to exercise again, it's flooding again here (Australia), fourth flood in the past 6 weeks. I've been eating more frequently than I would on LE, but not for long I guess, and there's no other way it could have been done; once I was pregnant I was eating avocado on toast etc to keep the nausea at bay.

[atomic sagebrush]

Yes it's so hard to come back after a loss - just take it a day at a time.

That's what I want everyone to do - just do whatever required for self-care until you feel up to possibly resuming diet/exercise. This may be for days or even weeks. Listen to what your body is telling you.

Just in the interest of full disclosure, the idea that "women are more fertile after a loss" is very far from proven. It's something that while well-intentioned, is probably not strictly true (if it IS true in some cases it's most likely due to releasing more eggs due to hormonal fluctuations, and NOT that you're overall "more fertile".) If your loss is truly depleting, your body "doesn't want to" get pregnant too soon because that could literally kill you, so it takes steps not to conceive too soon, thereby reducing fertility.

We have good results the first cycle after a loss - 76%, which is considerably higher than the overall success rates of the site as a whole. (Keep in mind, others who may be reading this, that this approach may not be right or desirable for you. The later the loss, the more likely it is necessary to wait that first cycle out.)

:agree: with either using OPK or just e4d method when you feel up to it.

Avocado on toast is honestly not bad for pink. I wouldn't feel bad about that at all (even when swaying) as long as you stay in the limits, if you like that as a meal. Doesn't have scads of protein and is a great way to get in some potassium and some good vegetable based fats in it.

[Cookies22]

Thanks Atomic. I really appreciate your advice and support.

I'm wondering what you would do if you were me? I knew I was pregnant for about a week and a half, so I've been off exercise for about 1.5 weeks now, and while I was pregnant I was eating normally (eating breakfast to keep morning sickness at bay, & snacking more than I did on LE. Probably still within 1500 calories, but maybe a bit more sugar & fat than usual, I usually eat zero sugar). I also took pre-natal supplements for that week and a half. Now my miscarriage has almost finished and I'm wondering if we should have a shot when I ovulate in 10 days or so.

I haven't been exercising, but I was exercising 6 x a week for 14 weeks prior to this, and this weekend we decided to go away for a family holiday just to get away from home and refresh after everything, so I've been walking a lot with the kids (zoo & rainforest centre adventures) even though I haven't been doing my 1 hour cardio. Last time I weighed myself I was 56.5kg.

I had hotel breakfast at 11 today instead of my usual 12. I'm wondering if Covid would sway slightly too because I've been pretty run down between Covid, morning sickness & miscarriage. I'm feeling quite delicate and wondering if I'm emotionally ready, but also if I'm throwing a sway down the drain by trying so soon after pregnancy with a week of supplements. I don't want to waste any time, this babe would be due 4 Jan if we fell pregnant, which is a pretty weird due date with my DS starting school a month later, but just weighing it all up. That 76% is pretty tempting! Leaning towards going for it, unless you think my sway is no good after a couple of weeks off it all.

I'd love your advice... Xx

[atomic sagebrush]

Yes, have a shot at your next ovulation. Don't worry about the diet and the prenatal, just go for it from here on. And the difference between eating breakfast at 11 vs. 12 is never a thing anyone needs to worry about.

While I'm absolutely supportive of you trying (I don't even think you WERE off diet honestly, and the prenatal was only for a weekish) please keep in mind though, that is not a guarantee. I would not go in thinking "if I try right now, even though I don't feel ready mentally/emotionally, I'll for sure get 76% chance of pink" because that's not what it means. It simply means that of the people who did conceive after a loss, 76% of them got girls. Those were people who may have been pregnant longer than you, who may have had more impact from the loss than you did - I just cannot speak to YOUR personal chances and so if ever someone is telling me that they don't feel ready, I worry if they're pushing themself into a situation they are not comfy with and I don't want that. The only way we'd ever know for sure how much losses sway is by testing it much more broadly, among many many more people who were doing nothing else to sway, and with controls in place for early vs. later losses, etc.

The reason I share that stat is not to tell you that anyone who conceives right away will have that % of success (hey, you may have even better chances, no one knows!) but to demonstrate to you that clearly TTC the first cycle after a loss, even tho people have been off diet and on prenatals, has to be outweighing the risks of being off diet (but again, you weren't really even OFF diet) and taking a prenatal for 10 days or whatever. If being off diet and taking prenatals could be swaying so strongly blue, we'd surely not be sitting at that kind of success rate. I do think it's absolutely fine for anyone's sway to try after a loss (provided u have the medical ok) because we've got those numbers to show us that people are getting even better results at that stage, even being off diet.

I hope that makes sense, I just like people to take our stats with a massive grain of salt, because while they can tell us generalities, they can't be taken to mean "if I do this one thing I have X% chance, so I should rush in where I'm really not feeling like I want to"

[treens]

How are you other 2ww ladies doing? I am CD 20 and my app says 3dpo going to try to wait to test in 8 days.

[Cookies22]

Yes, have a shot at your next ovulation. Don't worry about the diet and the prenatal, just go for it from here on. And the difference between eating breakfast at 11 vs. 12 is never a thing anyone needs to worry about.

While I'm absolutely supportive of you trying (I don't even think you WERE off diet honestly, and the prenatal was only for a weekish) please keep in mind though, that is not a guarantee. I would not go in thinking "if I try right now, even though I don't feel ready mentally/emotionally, I'll for sure get 76% chance of pink" because that's not what it means. It simply means that of the people who did conceive after a loss, 76% of them got girls. Those were people who may have been pregnant longer than you, who may have had more impact from the loss than you did - I just cannot speak to YOUR personal chances and so if ever someone is telling me that they don't feel ready, I worry if they're pushing themself into a situation they are not comfy with and I don't want that. The only way we'd ever know for sure how much losses sway is by testing it much more broadly, among many many more people who were doing nothing else to sway, and with controls in place for early vs. later losses, etc.

The reason I share that stat is not to tell you that anyone who conceives right away will have that % of success (hey, you may have even better chances, no one knows!) but to demonstrate to you that clearly TTC the first cycle after a loss, even tho people have been off diet and on prenatals, has to be outweighing the risks of being off diet (but again, you weren't really even OFF diet) and taking a prenatal for 10 days or whatever. If being off diet and taking prenatals could be swaying so strongly blue, we'd surely not be sitting at that kind of success rate. I do think it's absolutely fine for anyone's sway to try after a loss (provided u have the medical ok) because we've got those numbers to show us that people are getting even better results at that stage, even being off diet.

I hope that makes sense, I just like people to take our stats with a massive grain of salt, because while they can tell us generalities, they can't be taken to mean "if I do this one thing I have X% chance, so I should rush in where I'm really not feeling like I want to"

Thanks Atomic. I appreciate your reply so much. Like you say, I wasn't completely off the diet, just eating breakfast and a snack here and there, and only took prenatals for just over a week. I'm worried though as it's two weeks today since I've been exercising (previous to that I exercised 6 x a week for one hour every day, for 14 weeks). Do you think 2 weeks off exercise is enough to throw the sway off significantly? I would have taken a week off anyway due to having Covid, I'm just getting my proper strength & stamina back now so I'm starting my daily cardio again today. Hoping 2 weeks off exercise isn't too bad in the grand scheme of things...

[atomic sagebrush]

No I don't, for all the same reasons I mentioned in my reply above! We'd not get those type of results coming back after a loss if 2 weeks of exercise was a dealbreaker. We have people swaying the first month after a loss, with even a month or even more off of exercise! And those are the people in that 76% results.

I'm glad you're feeling better!!!

[Cookies22]

Thanks Atomic, that's great news.

I think what's going on with me is anxiety relating to the loss. It's embarrassing to admit it, but when I was pregnant I started stressing about my sway, 'did I do this or that right', and suddenly had to think ok, I'm more than likely going to end up with three beautiful sons. Then I had to examine why that idea gave me any anxiety and the vast majority of it was about other people's reactions and opinions. Society has some pretty negative connotations about 3 boys and that really riles me up. Obviously this is something I really need to work on! The rude comments I got when pregnant with DS2 were horrible, I guess this time I'll be armed with sharper responses... then, when pregnant, I watched the film Stand By Me for the first time (not sure how it's taken me this long to watch such an important film). And I loved the idea of 3 boys growing up together. To me, that was magic. And the idea of being their Mumma, the one they love unconditionally (because let's face it, the love between a mother and son is indescribably special). In my experience, with girls it's much more complex. Also, my own mother is very vocal in her preference for female children ("I like girls", she says), so that really triggers me a lot.

We live on a 42 acre property in rainforest on the coast, and it is so well suited to boyhood... I think the uncertainty of all the unknowns kind of got to me, and I think I have a bit of PTSD from when I opened the 10 week test to find my beautiful second son was, in fact, a he... it shook me and it's so silly that it did! The bond between my sons is absolutely incredible. I guess the perceived pressure of producing a girl after 2 boys is a lot, and I wish it wasn't (maybe I'm imagining it?!).

My Dad is one of 3 sons. Each spaced 5 years apart. The third son was not loved in the same way as the other two were, because my Gran wanted a girl. His whole life was destroyed because of it; he never married (pushed women away) and is an alcoholic. I see the pain in his life and I wonder, am I the same monster that my Grandmother was? I know I would never, ever be rejecting and horrible like she was (I'm convinced she must have had undiagnosed PPD or something), but I worry about the bonding... I worry about any parallels. I also see it as an opportunity to correct that generational trauma. I am very close with my uncle now, I am his next of kin carer.

Also my DH's side of the family has a lot of weird women (lol) so there's also a worry that a DD would be a bit, well, strange...

I'm just dropping so much random brain fog here, but just sharing what's going on... so many mixed up feelings in my mind, I thought maybe it would help to write them down. I know before TTC I just felt there was another person who is supposed to be in our family, and when I thought of them, they didn't have a gender, it was just another body sleeping next to my sons in their bedroom... the big family that to me would be a dream. I just need to focus on that and let go of all ideas of gender perhaps? Basically just a HECK of a lot of overthinking, lol.

[atomic sagebrush]

Ok. I want you to proceed with great caution here. I have seen many, many women who have a gender preference, then either take longer than expected to conceive, or suffer a loss, who then start to tell themselves exactly the sorts of things you're saying here. That gender really doesn't matter, it's all societal expectations and not their own true feelings, that they don't care about the outcome, that all they care about is getting pregnant as quickly as possible with the healthiest baby that they can create, etc. And then they get pregnant, and in the cases where the baby is an opposite - most if not all cases with that type of scenario! I'm wracking my brain trying to come up with ONE instance where people went down this road and had a girl, and I can't think of any - and are plagued, absolutely plagued with regrets (and let me tell ya, regret after swaying and getting an opposite does not hold a candle to the regret people have after deliberately NOT swaying and getting an opposite.)

While it is fabulous to get your head on straight re: having another boy or a girl, and I applaud and support those efforts, the women who fell into that pitfall, without exception, ended up really regretting it. They wished they had it to do over again, because only after the fact really stopped to think about the permanence of that decision. A baby is forever, and most of us have only one more chance at this, why not give it a shot? You can still have a boy of course, but at least you can say you tried, and there is peace in that, giving something a whirl and then if it doesn't work out it isn't meant to be.

Wanting to have the experience of raising a daughter is not overthinking, nor is wanting to take some reasonable steps to make that happen. I honestly think what you're doing now kind of IS overthinking. Going back and assuming the things you're assuming right now in this message, like that you will have trouble bonding with your child, that there are any parallels, that you would have a weird daughter, those aren't really rational (sorry! atomic tough love alert). Those are anxiety fears borne from your mind wanting so desperately to believe that if only you weren't swaying, that you would be protected from losses, but that is very much not the case and even if you feel 100% at peace with the idea right now, I promise you can stop swaying entirely, get pregnant, and THEN be plagued with regrets over it.

Please don't start looking back at past generations to tell you anything. They had a lot of screwed up child-rearing practices (my grandmother, who is by all accounts not the greatest mother, altho a highly accomplished woman in other ways, told me that the experts said she could not pick up her children or comfort them when they cried, and that she regretted that), very strict societal expectations, people in that generation had a lot of baggage themselves from growing up in the shadow of the Depression and the war years, and women were much more 'stuck' into roles as wives and mothers and nothing beyond that. This led to many people growing up with those types of horror stories that you're describing - entirely BEYOND gender desire. That may have been the "thing" for that family, but plenty of other families had some similar tale where the mother favored one child or disfavored one child in particular or had insanely high expectations or was unfulfilled in their own life, or just overall was not a nurturing person. It is not something that YOU would ever reenact, not only because that person is not who you are, but also because you are dwelling in a time and place in which you are not trapped in a life that you never wanted to have!

Please do not tell yourself "my daughter might be weird so I'd be better off with a boy". I know you know this, but it's just silliness and you would love without question any child who headed your way. This mindset is a way to harden your heart as a defense mechanism, I think. For YEARS I justified not having a girl to myself, because I was a very homely child, no one liked me, I was "weird", etc and then my daughter came out very cute and entirely normal (indeed, I sometimes feel "weird" and even awkward around her because she's so effortlessly basic, LOL). I could easily have walked away all together based on this erroneous belief that I "couldn't make a normal girl what with genetics and all" and it simply wasn't ever the case. And she is SOOO outdoorsy! Girls also love growing up on big pieces of land with wilderness and such - mine sure does. I promise you that both boys and girls would love your living situation and greatly benefit from it. (I know you don't really mean that it's better for a boy than a girl, I'm just pointing out that there are a lot of girls who love nature and the wilderness too. And 3 of my 4 boys would honestly rather be inside with a good book.)

Cookies, in some cases I can look at a sway and not see anything that we could change. In your case, we absolutely CAN change something by having you do the alternate diet!! I would just absolutely hate to see these errant, anxiety-borne thoughts messing with your head and lead you down a path where you may end up someplace that you honestly don't want to be. At least not without me warning you about what others have experienced!

[Cookies22]

Thank you Atomic. I think I'm just finding it all hard, and channeling that anxiety over the loss into these details and justifications that really, as you say, aren't real! I guess I'm worried that swaying will make any gender disappointment a thousand times worse. It was hard last time. But I got through it, and there are plenty of Mums of three beautiful boys who have done the same, so I think I just need to focus on knowing that the baby I get is the baby I'm meant to get, regardless of gender. I think it's hard because during swaying you're constantly thinking 'girl', 'pink' etc, and then when you fall pregnant you have to switch your thinking all of a sudden to entertain blue?

The alternate diet is the one I'm on, yes? I weighed myself this morning and I'm 56.9 (up from 56.6) so I hope that's not a deal breaker that will ruin my sway. Still negative on OPK so I'll probably have one attempt tomorrow or the next day.

I'm definitely not jumping off the wagon, but I think it's making my anxiety worse if you know what I mean, I think that's why I aimed for an 'invisible' sway, but losses do throw spanners in the works! I think after knowing about swaying, it's impossible to TTC without implementing at least some of those changes. You can't ignore your awareness if you know what I mean! I probably just need to keep on doing what I'm doing, hopefully get a BFP and then stay off the forums so I can focus on a baby and not a girl specificially! In the lead up to deciding we would have another baby, I wasn't thinking about swaying, or even a girl specifically, but rather a third member of our family. I need to focus on THAT mentality because it was much healthier if you know what I mean.

[atomic sagebrush]

Yes, rereading that comment re the alternate diet it was confusing, what I mean to say is that based on your PREVIOUS sway. You are on that diet now, and I think that it's definitely something we can change to get a better outcome than your last sway.

I am totally, completely on board with an effortless, invisible sway, and staying open to a baby of either gender. ABSOLUTELY please keep in your mind the possibility of blue AT ALL TIMES - I don't want anyone to go into TTC without entertaining the idea of blue (and honestly, I didn't realize anyone was! Yikes!)

It is just that historically speaking, I see people start to talk the way you were talking there and then their next post is that they're giving up on swaying totally. Or equally commonly, they just vanish from the site (before I can write that stuff I just wrote to you above, to even warn them, hence why I was being proactive there) and then go off and do their thing and come back a few months later absolutely devastated. Please forgive me the preemptive strike, I figured I might only have one chance to convince you there.

I want to stress to you again that I actually thought you were far too low in weight and I would very much prefer if you just held steady where you're at right here. No weight loss. It will not undo your sway, and you should keep that little bit of extra weight on as an insurance policy to keep your cycle working.

[Cookies22]

Thanks Atomic. Definitely not jumping off the wagon :) just being realistic I think. I want to be excited about both possibilities, so I need to do that in equal measure if you know what I mean?

Yep I've been on alternate LE diet. Some days it's harder to find whole grains though I must admit; sushi is often a go-to when I'm out and need something for lunch, and it's always with white rice. For dinners we have a lot of risotto, and that is arborio... but any bread I eat is wholegrain and I've been eating brown rice for lunches when I can too. When I fell pregnant I felt my sway was pretty well perfect, I was drinking every night, exercising every day etc... now I haven't been drinking or exercising due to pregnancy, so it's more relaxed, but that might be a good thing for me and my personality anyway!

[atomic sagebrush]

:agree: That is perfect (and given your weight, you have more leeway with refined carbs anyway). White rice is actually not that bad overall and sushi is among my fave LE Diet foods for takeaway stuff!

[Cookies22]

Oh that's good to hear! I worry I have too much rice-based stuff; we often have noodle soup every week with white rice noodles, and pad thai that also uses white rice noodles... lots of risottos etc, but if we have rice with a curry etc we always choose brown rice. I guess you just have to go with the flow especially when preparing family meals.

[atomic sagebrush]

As slim as you are, all that is just fine. Let's not worry about those things!

[Cookies22]

Thanks Atomic. I got a pos OPK yesterday morning and we BD shortly after (No O for me). I’m a bit worried as I did a J&D, but later read that J&D involves laying flat for 5 min… I got up pretty soon after BD, maybe 2 mins after, or 3 mins max. I feel so stupid for doing that now! We thought that visitors had arrived at our house, and also my DS kept trying to walk into the bedroom, so I had to jump up lol.

I went to the bathroom, did a wee, little wipe and then came back to bed to lay with DH for another 10 min, so hoping that works in my favour & still makes it a decent attempt. I’ve read mixed things online, most studies & obgyns say laying down after doesn’t make a difference, a few say it does. I've read a lot of women have gotten pregnant when they pee straight after sex, apparently the semen coagulates for 30 min which makes sense as it is SO thick to start with and then goes runny (again, TMI).

DH had a coffee this morning an hour before our attempt so maybe the J&D was a good idea. TMI but there was lots of liquid seeping into my undies all afternoon yesterday, so I’m hoping there’s plenty up there despite the quick stand-up. When I went to the bathroom and wiped there wasn’t a much semen there after BD, but there was a lot of seminal discharge throughout the rest of the day. Hoping 2 min isn’t too different to my usual 5 min wait (which I did with both of my boys)!

We BD with deep penetration so I know the sperm was deposited right at the cervix. I've read that millions of spermies swim up to the cervix and fallopian tubes within the first few seconds / first minute, so I'm hoping that's true! Hubby has a higher than normal sperm count & volume (we had it tested when TTC #1).

We'll probably continue on the E4D pattern this month too. Would you recommend the Mon / Thurs option for us or the Mon / Fri option?

We had an attempt yesterday morning on CD11 when I had a flashing smiley OPK. I'm nervous about missing the egg, especially because we J&D. I got another flashing smiley face OPK this morning (CD12). Hubby's birthday is on Tuesday (CD14), so we could BD super early that morning before the kids are awake, which would have us on E4D Monday / Thurs pattern.

I get ovulation cramping every cycle, so I will find it really hard not to BD if that comes along earlier than CD14! But then I've read that ovulation actually occurs 24-48 hours AFTER the cramping anyway? I'm wondering if we could still conceive the morning after O cramping if it happens the evening of CD13, I guess that attempt would then fall into 0+12 category. But then sperm takes 10 hours to capitulate & egg only lives 12-24 hours... argh it's all so confusing.

Sorry for all the questions, it's just hard with the time difference, I'm trying to work out a game plan in advance lol because when I'm in day time, you're in night time! It's hard because hubby isn't across the swaying stuff. I guess worst case scenario is we have an attempt late in the evening of CD13 instead of morning of CD14? I could wake hubby up at midnight for a birthday surprise haha.

So my main question is, if I get Ov cramping tomorrow night (CD13) and we BD early the morning of CD14 (which would leave us in the E4D category), do you think the sperm will still have a chance to get to that egg? Or in that instance am I better off BD late the night of CD13, during / after Ov cramping?

[atomic sagebrush]

Well, a lot of people WANT an immediate J and D. There will be leftovers (yep, semen doesn't liquefy for a while, but sperm can already start leaving before that point - it is thought by many that the liquefication is not for conception, but for getting rid of the "leftovers" after the sperm has already made it to the safety of the cervical crypts) and a lot of sperm will have already left the semen after 2-3 minutes and gotten to safety. You can get up immediately after sex, shower, cook dinner for 24 people, and run the Boston Marathon and still get pregnant.

:agree: yes it's very common to have that increased discharge after sex for quite some time after intercourse, too. But semen is not sperm, the sperm try to flee the semen upon deposit and by that point it was probably just dead/dying sperm and any potential pathogens being gotten rid of. This is partly how your body prevents infections.

Monday Thursday. I only ever use Mon/Fri for people who are just starting off and can't use OPK for some reason. Your call, but that would be my vote.

O pain tells you nothing reliable. Many of us start having O pains long before O (I have really horrible O pains and have had them as early as CD 3) and they can carry on till afterwards. Having O pains for up to 3 days after O is not uncommon, and some months I've had them after O for up to 7 days. Your O pains, contrary to popular belief, are not necessarily or even typically caused by the process of ovulation happening. They can happen beforehand because your ovaries develop a lot of eggs on both sides and ovulation may actually RELIEVE O pains for some people (like popping a ripe zit) at least on the side they ovulated. We have had a LOT of people who swear they ovulated from one side only to find it was the other, and people who thought they'd ovulated but didn't or had a week before! And as for afterwards, the tubes cramp to move the egg down, and the fluid the ovary releases along with an egg may cause irritation as it hits the outside of other organs.

Long story short, O pains are useless.

I already explained about O+ 12 in this thread so I'll refer you back there. Suffice to say none of this tells us anything about when your attempt was in relation to O.

I would personally just stick with the e4d pattern.

[Cookies22]

Thanks Atomic. I got another flashing smiley face this morning (CD12), so I'm happy about that as the timing will be good for another attempt tomorrow morning! Thank you for all of your help xx

[Cookies22]

Hi Atomic,

Just wondering if you’ve had any experience with this…

I usually get ov cramping each month and it’s quite distinct, usually located on one side and usually lasts a few hours and then subsides. I can’t remember a month where I haven’t had ov cramping. This month, following the MC, I’ve had ovulation pain for the past 3 days. It’s not as severe as usual, but there’s definitely something going on there on and off for 3 days. I haven’t used OPKs much, but last month I went from blank circle straight to solid smiley face high fertility on CD11 (followed by ov cramps the night of CD11). This month I got a flashing smiley face on CD11, 12, 13 and 14. Ive had two attempts, one CD 11 and CD 14, but just wondering if you’ve any experience with this… I’ve heard cycles can be all over the shop after miscarriage, so I guess it makes sense. I’ve also read that if you don’t POAS at the exact right time you can miss your LH surge and therefore will just have infinite flashing smiley faces the rest of the month (I think I had this happen when I was TTC my first child). I’ve been using first morning urine, but often get up to pee when my 2 year old wakes at 3am, so then I use urine from a 3am-7 or 8am hold �� (speaking of which, I’ve been meaning to ask, does sleep deprivation sway at all?! I’m so tired!)

I’m going to continue on E4D until my period is due, & keep up with the OPKs, but just wondering if you have any insight into what could be going on?

Thank you xxx

[atomic sagebrush]

Yes, absolutely, and that's why I'm always urging you guys not to put too much stock into O pains or into OPK. Particularly after a loss and/or when swaying, these types of things can come in all sorts of weird and completely unpredictable ways and wreak all sorts of havoc with our best laid plans (this is a huge reason why we invented e4d to start with!)

Because lots of different things can cause "O Pains" including the cramping of the fallopian tubes after ovulation, what you are feeling may or may not be what you generally think of as O pains. Like I said, I've had what feels like O Pains while still having my period on CD 3, and as long as 7 DPO, and I could not have told them from the pains I normally feel right around ovulation. There are a lot of reasons why ovaries may be aching, like new eggs developing, or the corpus luteum from your last pregnancy breaking down, or because of hormones, and pain can be referred so it may not be ovaries but tubes, uterus, or whatever. We just cannot know and while I get that it's very hard for some of you to believe, when I have seen 123,456,789 people swearing to me on a stack of religious tomes that they felt O pains on a certain side and Oed from the other, or they're sure they knew when they Oed only to find out they never Oed at all, or had Oed 2 weeks before, or had been pregnant for a month, I simply can't read anything into it other than giving us a sort of vague "heads up" that something may be afoot. But then again it may not be!

As for OPK, also can be highly misleading. The notion that if you don't POAS at just the right time is silly (and causes endless amounts of stress for people, testing many times a day when that is not even necessary). What can happen is that people's urine doesn't get concentrated enough except if they get lucky enough to catch that, and also there's a lot of "pilot error" where people just aren't terribly consistent about when and how they test, skip days, drink water before, etc but this idea that there is any such thing as a super short surge, where the levels in your blood are only high enough a few minutes to trigger O is just not really a thing.

Now, it may be that you're ovulating later than normal this time through. It happens and is no biggie really. Keep testing and keep doing e4d and that way no matter what you'll be covered, even if you never get a true positive.

Yes, sleep deprivation does seem to sway pink! Many of us, myself included, got our girls when we were really running on fumes!!!

[Cookies22]

Thanks Atomic. I had another flashing smiley this morning, which brings me to five days in total of flashing smiley. Very strange! I just hope I'm ovulating, that's my biggest worry... I've had quite a lot of discharge so it feels like I'm ovulating, the cramps have subsided today too so maybe I ovulated but it hasn't been picked up by the tests. Either way I'm keeping up with testing with FMU and E4D BD pattern.

I wonder if it’s possible to still fall pregnant even if you never get a solid smiley face?

I would take my BBT but I am up pretty much every single night with my 2 year old, and often end up sleeping in his bed, then back in our bed, musical chairs and I rarely wake up at the same time every morning either, so I feel that tracking my BBT will just make the whole process more stressful / obsessy (I remember it being awful tracking my BBT when TTC my first child). If only there were some other way to magically track your BBT, or some other easy way of knowing if / when you've ovulated! Please anyone chime in if you know of one!

[atomic sagebrush]

It's not at all strange or uncommon. Some people get that every month and most people have it happen at least on occasion. The odds are you'll get a solid smiley still, within a few days' time in most cases, but we have seen people have very long periods of flashy (2 weeks or even more a few times) AND also people who go from flashy back to negative again (this depends on the kind of test you use)

Yes, you can absolutely still get pregnant even if you never get a solid smiley. Tests don't tell you definitively what is happening in your body. I've explained more about this in my previous reply where I talked about "pilot error" and I think elsewhere in this same thread (probably the O+12 messages). Your body has no idea what a line on a test says and doesn't care, either, LOL. It will ovulate regardless.

I agree you should not test with BBT. I think it would be too aggravating for you.

There is no way of knowing if and when O had taken place. If I had one I'd be screaming it from the rooftops, LOL. They do have the "Proov" tests but I have found them to be fairly unreliable and adding more stress for most people. The reason we use OPK to begin with is that they're the best we got.

[Cookies22]

Thanks Atomic. I had my solid smiley face show up yesterday morning, and BD early this morning on the 72 hour pattern.

I had SUCH painful ovulation cramps this morning at 2am, they woke me up and I was struggling to walk! I've had that happen before, once when I conceived DS1 and was on femara (had to go home and find a heat pack to relieve the pain), and a few other random times I can recall. Do you have any idea what that super intense ovulation pain could be caused by? I just hope I didn't drop two eggs but I felt it distinctly on my left ovary. I'm still a bit crampy this morning but nothing like how it was earlier today!

[atomic sagebrush]

Some of us get those very severe, almost crippling O pains several times a year (me!) In fact there's this whole group of us who have the massive O pains and then no menstrual cramps at all. So when asking me "what could this be caused by" it can certainly be caused by absolutely nothing, certainly nothing that indicates any problem. Many of us didn't have them when young, or ONLY had them when young, or when we were on BCP, or off BCP, or any of many different scenarios. So there's really nothing I can point to where I can say "oh yes it's this thing, it's that thing" because there's too many people getting that who are not having either of those things LOL.

Again, and I'm sorry to sound like a broken record but the left O pain doesn't mean you ovulated from that side, because many people find that ovulation actually alleviates O pains. It is entirely possible that the severe pain was from the side that didn't ovulate (and I have seen so many people sure they knew the side they Oed from O pain who actually Oed from the other side and were flabbergasted when they had an ultrasound!)

No, it doesn't mean double ovulation has taken place. People have ultrasounds done and report to me just one ovulation even in months with severe O pain.

All that having been said, it's the month after a loss, and it isn't surprising or unexpected that various things would be different this month. Maybe you developed more eggs. Maybe you had higher/lower estrogen at ovulation. Maybe you were just more inflamed and therefore felt more pain than usual. At any rate, there's nothing to be alarmed about (if you were), it's just a variation of natural and there's every possibility that you'll just go back to the way things were in the past, in other months. (but hopefully you'll get pregnant this month and it won't matter)

[Cookies22]

Thanks Atomic! It’s a mystery for sure…

I wanted to check with you if it’s ok if I have 3 meals a day? Today for instance I didn’t get to eat until 2pm (was out with DH & my kids grocery shopping). Then I had dinner at 6pm and by the time 9pm rolled around I was starving and way under my goals for the day… so I had a 3rd meal (but no snacking in between). I hope that’s ok, I’m paranoid because I’m ovulating at the moment and don’t want to ruin things!

I think I need to continue on 3 meals because 2 meals is hard in that I’d have to eat 800cal worth of food in each sitting and I don’t think I could physically stomach it!

I’ve also been thinking much more positively recently… today I went for my usual 60 minute walk and I thought about the fact that maybe I’m pregnant and I thought about the girl name I love, and I looked up at that moment and saw a beautiful rainbow in the sky in front of the clouds… I’m a big believer in signs and intuition and just that moment alone made me so happy and made me so grateful that I’m on this journey.

[onelittlewish]

Thanks Atomic! It’s a mystery for sure…

I wanted to check with you if it’s ok if I have 3 meals a day? Today for instance I didn’t get to eat until 2pm (was out with DH & my kids grocery shopping). Then I had dinner at 6pm and by the time 9pm rolled around I was starving and way under my goals for the day… so I had a 3rd meal (but no snacking in between). I hope that’s ok, I’m paranoid because I’m ovulating at the moment and don’t want to ruin things!

I think I need to continue on 3 meals because 2 meals is hard in that I’d have to eat 800cal worth of food in each sitting and I don’t think I could physically stomach it!

I’ve also been thinking much more positively recently… today I went for my usual 60 minute walk and I thought about the fact that maybe I’m pregnant and I thought about the girl name I love, and I looked up at that moment and saw a beautiful rainbow in the sky in front of the clouds… I’m a big believer in signs and intuition and just that moment alone made me so happy and made me so grateful that I’m on this journey.

Hi cookies! Joining you in the tww here…Ive read your story and so sorry for your loss and hope you get your rainbow baby soon! I got 5 days of flashy before my peak last month, and this month 3 circles followed by a solid smiley with no high reading at all! What is more confusing is that i got my pos opk on the same day as my peak reading but it lasted for 3 days! I went in for a scan on the 3rd day of Pos OPK and saw that ovulation had happened already. So I guess there is no way to really pinpoint O! I am 4dpo now…8th month trying! Need a place to talk because the wait is killing me!

[atomic sagebrush]

Both 2 and 3 meals are equally acceptable on LE Diet. You absolutely CAN have three meals and I think you should have them all the time. Most of us, myself included, have three. It's all about what works better for each individual - some people actually prefer just two big meals, others do better on three.

[9jamama01]

Hi ladies, joining you here for TWW. I have been TTC Blue for over a year now. Currently I'm 5/6 dpo of a 26/27 day cycle. I used opk strips but I never really got a positive. I held my pee for 4 hours and tested by 2pm and 5pm but surprisingly there was absolutely no visible line when I tested on cd 10 and 11 (Atomic I don't even know how that is possible, I always heard that there's always some LH in our bodies!).

I was so scared that something bad was happening to me, because that was my first time not having a second line show up on the test strip. On cd 12 a faint line showed up. But it didn't get any darker by cd 13 or 14. I ran out of tests so I have no way of knowing if and when I ovulated.

I had watery cm from cd 9 up till cd 14. By cd 14 my cm changed to creamy. I also had strong ovulation pains and bloating on cd 12, and worse on cd13. By cd 14 it stopped. If I did ovulate, I'd guess it happened on cd 13.

By now I know a lot of weird things happen in our bodies while TTCing but I hope we all get our bfps this month.

Good luck Cookies and Onelittlewish [emoji1696]

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[onelittlewish]

Hi ladies, joining you here for TWW. I have been TTC Blue for over a year now. Currently I'm 5/6 dpo of a 26/27 day cycle. I used opk strips but I never really got a positive. I held my pee for 4 hours and tested by 2pm and 5pm but surprisingly there was absolutely no visible line when I tested on cd 10 and 11 (Atomic I don't even know how that is possible, I always heard that there's always some LH in our bodies!).

I was so scared that something bad was happening to me, because that was my first time not having a second line show up on the test strip. On cd 12 a faint line showed up. But it didn't get any darker by cd 13 or 14. I ran out of tests so I have no way of knowing if and when I ovulated.

I had watery cm from cd 9 up till cd 14. By cd 14 my cm changed to creamy. I also had strong ovulation pains and bloating on cd 12, and worse on cd13. By cd 14 it stopped. If I did ovulate, I'd guess it happened on cd 13.

By now I know a lot of weird things happen in our bodies while TTCing but I hope we all get our bfps this month.

Good luck Cookies and Onelittlewish [emoji1696]

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Thanks 9jamama! All my bluedust to you! We are about at the same time in the cycle…I am about 5dpo today and I have 13 days LP, expecting af on the 26th. How are you feeling?

[Jazmin]

good luck everyone. prayers for you all

I am skipping this cycle because of fasting. DH hardly able release as well which worries me that i may have to skip next cycle too and get back to bd pattern.


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[atomic sagebrush]

9jama, it's just about the concentration in your urine. the tests can only pick up the hormone when it reaches a certain strength in your urine, and if it's less than that (regardless of what your blood levels are) you will not get a line.

Since you are having cycles and are experiencing O symptoms at the appropriate time you are ovulating regardless of what the OPK say!

[9jamama01]

Thanks Atomic, I guess the brand I used may not have been sensitive enough. I'm keeping my fingers crossed.

Wishing you all the best Jazmin as you fast. Hopefully you'll be able to get everything on track for the next cycle.

Onelittlewish, I'm not sure how many dpo I am but AF is due on the 24th. As for symptoms I've had: a little bit of lower back pain for 2 days now. Its a mild pain that pain comes and goes. Bloating for some days. Headaches started mildly yesterday and that's usually a PMS sign for me. But I'm keeping my fingers crossed.

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[onelittlewish]

Thanks Atomic, I guess the brand I used may not have been sensitive enough. I'm keeping my fingers crossed.

Wishing you all the best Jazmin as you fast. Hopefully you'll be able to get everything on track for the next cycle.

Onelittlewish, I'm not sure how many dpo I am but AF is due on the 24th. As for symptoms I've had: a little bit of lower back pain for 2 days now. Its a mild pain that pain comes and goes. Bloating for some days. Headaches started mildly yesterday and that's usually a PMS sign for me. But I'm keeping my fingers crossed.

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9jamama, cm has always been pretty reliable for me i hope it is right for you too! I had severe bloating on 4dpo for a day but other than that nothing other than my cold symptoms. Not super hopeful this month too. Keep me updated!

Jazmin, hope all goes well with your next cycle! And blessed Ramadan!

[Cookies22]

Hi Onelittlewish! Thanks for saying hi! Sending you lots of baby dust. Let us know how you get on! Xx

[Cookies22]

How's everyone going? I'm 3-4 DPO and feeling pretty over it.

6 months on LE is a lot. I miss snacking, and being able to eat whatever I want, whenever, without thinking about it. When I was pregnant I had this huge sigh of relief when I realised I could eat whatever I wanted now. It was such a buzz kill going through easter last weekend without eating any chocolate. I am growing weary of trying to squeeze an hour of cardio in every day; we don't use day care so it's a load on my husband to have to watch our 2 and 5 year olds every single afternoon while I exercise for an hour. It pushes our dinner and bedtimes back by an hour, and is an hour I'd rather be spending with my kids out at the beach doing something fun and making memories. Or an hour every day spent writing my book, or on the couch with my hubby at the end of the day watching a film, quality time as a couple. Or doing one of the thousand and one other things I need to get done every day as a time-poor working Mum of 2.

It's doing my head in a bit. TTC after a loss is hard enough, but now that I know about swaying, I feel like I can't do it any other way. It's a big pressure on an already pressurised situation. Anyone else feel like this? I feel like there aren't many people swaying now compared with a few years ago, so maybe I'm not alone and other people have found it too hard long term. It just doesn't feel entirely sustainable and I'm so tired generally, and fatigued by the mental load of LE and constant exercise / E4D when I want to fall pregnant. Like right now I'm about to go for my walk, I want a snack, but my swaying brain says that's bad, so I'm hungry, and it makes me grumpy at my hubby and kids. It just makes life harder than it already is.

I know I can have a 'snack' or second meal before exercising, but it doesn't work for me because we eat dinner as soon as I get home. I'm 36, worried about fertility after a loss and really I should just be grateful to be TTC at all, rather than lowering my fertility to sway a certain percentage one way or the other. It's hard not to feel like this sometimes. I really hope I'm pregnant this month because I don't know how much longer I can sway. Being in the TWW is bringing up a lot of feelings I guess. ❤️

[Thefinalcountdown]

Hey just wanted to encourage you that a lot of girl moms kinda feel this way. I think it’s the lack of energy from snacking and the cardio on top of it. The ones that I’ve talked to that have all girls are always kinda “done”. I never did cardio and was doing about the same activity with all 3 but with my girls I was definitely eating LE for a long time. Fx you get a bfp soon!!


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[atomic sagebrush]

Hey just wanted to encourage you that a lot of girl moms kinda feel this way. I think it’s the lack of energy from snacking and the cardio on top of it. The ones that I’ve talked to that have all girls are always kinda “done”. I never did cardio and was doing about the same activity with all 3 but with my girls I was definitely eating LE for a long time. Fx you get a bfp soon!!


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This may come into play as part of the mystery why blue swayers always want to have their kids so close together, an ongoing puzzle that I have written about here: https://www.genderdreaming.com/forum/trying-to-conceive-a-boy/57710-blue-swayers-why.html?highlight=blue+swayers Maybe they're just over it all and want to move on with their lives.

[atomic sagebrush]

But Cookies, remember, you had cut back way too far anyway and so if you need to add a little food back in, be it in the form of an extra meal a day or some chocolate, so be it.

Chocolate at Easter is MANDATORY. No one should ever be skipping holiday treats for swaying. That is why cheating is not only encouraged, it is a must do. Because you do miss out on those precious memories, and you can do all that, deprive yourself of everything wonderful in this world only to end up getting an opposite anyway.

I insist you eat some chocolate immediately.

I do want you to be aware that the 2ww is known for both being very "hungry" times, and also emotionally speaking, you're at a low point. I personally find that the week after O is the time when most of us are at an emotional nadir, very discouraged just in general (and this is without swaying). It's the time people are tempted to give up, and I often get messages from people telling me they ARE giving up and then I say "did you O a few days ago" and they did!

Because you are so thin, I think you absolutely could drop at least a day or two of exercise and still ahve good results with it. I think you SHOULD do that for the sake of your sanity and emotional wellbeing!

[Cookies22]

Thank you so much @Thefinalcountdown & Atomic. Honestly your encouragement and understanding means so much. I woke up this morning and read these messages first thing (after my first decent night of sleep in a long time) and it made me feel so much better. That's so interesting about the week after O being a low point. I've been so crabby and tired the past few days, which is not like me, and I said to my DH I feel like maybe it's hormone-related, which it could be in the TWW. A friend of mine asked me on the street if we're trying for a baby this year and it just hurt, she's heavily pregnant and I just wish she hadn't asked me that, I didn't want to share that I just had a MC.

@Thefinalcountdown that is an interesting way of looking at it too! I know my sister, who has 2 girls, is always and forever 'burning out'. She's addicted to being busy, is highly strung and always has way too many things going on at once and lots of stress (plus never eats breakfast, and exercises every day, loves wine and coffee). She fell pregnant with her DD2 the month after an early miscarriage too. Another friend of mine (my ex boss actually) is highly strung and always busy and has two girls, the latter one was conceived first cycle after an early MC too. It does seem to add up and I guess in a way this mentality would only help my sway... I haven't been obsessing over my sway at all because I'm too busy spinning all of the plates! And I do think the reason the sway may not have worked last time (which I'm so grateful for as it gave me my beloved DS2) is because I'd only been on the diet for 11 weeks. Now it's almost 6 months and feels much more like a lifestyle than a 'crash diet'.

Thanks Atomic, I did eat one easter egg so that's something. I also had a 'cheat' last night and ate a sausage before bed because I was hungry (first meat I've eaten in ages). I think I just need to accept that after this long on the diet, I cannot be as disciplined, so a snack here and there, or going down to 4 days of exercise rather than 6 will all be ok too.

[Thefinalcountdown]

Yeah you are living the “girl mom lifestyle”!! Funny enough, I now feel really busy and capable after being on the HE for a few months. Like I can really invest time in being controlling over all things since I have the energy for it.


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[onelittlewish]

Thank you so much @Thefinalcountdown & Atomic. Honestly your encouragement and understanding means so much. I woke up this morning and read these messages first thing (after my first decent night of sleep in a long time) and it made me feel so much better. That's so interesting about the week after O being a low point. I've been so crabby and tired the past few days, which is not like me, and I said to my DH I feel like maybe it's hormone-related, which it could be in the TWW. A friend of mine asked me on the street if we're trying for a baby this year and it just hurt, she's heavily pregnant and I just wish she hadn't asked me that, I didn't want to share that I just had a MC.

@Thefinalcountdown that is an interesting way of looking at it too! I know my sister, who has 2 girls, is always and forever 'burning out'. She's addicted to being busy, is highly strung and always has way too many things going on at once and lots of stress (plus never eats breakfast, and exercises every day, loves wine and coffee). She fell pregnant with her DD2 the month after an early miscarriage too. Another friend of mine (my ex boss actually) is highly strung and always busy and has two girls, the latter one was conceived first cycle after an early MC too. It does seem to add up and I guess in a way this mentality would only help my sway... I haven't been obsessing over my sway at all because I'm too busy spinning all of the plates! And I do think the reason the sway may not have worked last time (which I'm so grateful for as it gave me my beloved DS2) is because I'd only been on the diet for 11 weeks. Now it's almost 6 months and feels much more like a lifestyle than a 'crash diet'.

Thanks Atomic, I did eat one easter egg so that's something. I also had a 'cheat' last night and ate a sausage before bed because I was hungry (first meat I've eaten in ages). I think I just need to accept that after this long on the diet, I cannot be as disciplined, so a snack here and there, or going down to 4 days of exercise rather than 6 will all be ok too.

Hi Cookies, I totally feel you here. 8 months ttc and 10 months on the diet and every month when I got a BFN I was more stressed about the fact that I had to carry on the diet rather than the fact that I wasn't getting pregnant. But I second everything Atomic said in her previous post...the longer I am on the diet the more I understand her reasons behind.

I was quite disciplined in the 1st 6 months (I don't think I was super strict at what I eat but I tried my best not to snack, cut out sugar and white carbs and 6 days of exercise) and I wasn't hungry or starving at all. Nevertheless I still had to use my all will power to control myself and I became emo with my kids and of course they threw more tantrums and vicious cycle. My mood swings were causing a lot of tension between me and my family to a point I thought I cannot continue like this anymore. But like you said once you know that swaying is out there you cannot just do nothing. So it's either keep swaying or quit ttc. Then I tried to loosen up bit by bit and it was hard because I had dealt with the guilt that came along. I felt that I would fail even though I knew in my mind that "it's ok" but my heart didn't. And honestly speaking every month I saw BFN I was relieved because I thought I could do "better" next month. So fast forward to today, sometimes I still struggle with the guilt but most of the time I have made peace with myself and I think as long as I am still mindful and conscious about my diet it is a change from my past. Maybe it is good enough to get me a girl, maybe it is not but this is the best I can do without quitting completely and I don't think I could have done differently. Now I eat the best to avoid food meat/banana/tomato/potato occasionally, I do have some sugar and dessert every day but definitely with self control, I push back my breakfast to mid day on the school days when I am always out and about in the morning and have my brekkie on the weekends as my treats so I am fuelled to take care of the kids, and I try not to snack but I'd eat when I can't shake the thought off my head.

I am 9DPO today and feeling absolutely nothing lol. I also don't have my BBT so I really have no clue as to what's going on but I am really glad that I stopped charting (not voluntarily of course, thanks to my DS) and this is probably my most chilled month ever. I didn't know how obsessed I was until I stopped. Not having high hopes because I kind of gave up on the possibility of us conceiving with 1 attempt in the fertile window but never say never right!

Anyway, hope you are feeling better Cookies and it is a tough journey but you are not alone :wink:

[9jamama01]

Hi Cookies, hope you feel better today. After about 15 months on the HE diet I can say that Swaying is hardwork! I can remember how many times I almost quit the past year but when I imagine myself carrying my little baby boy in my arms, I decide to try one more day.

But at this point, I'm tired and I just want to get pregnant, I'll take a little baby girl today over no baby at all. Every time I see that just one line on the HPT I feel so sad.

I'm 10dpo today and I have another BFN. I think I might have to take a break, maybe 3-4 months so I can loose some weight. I feel like there's no point carrying this excess weight around if I can't even get pregnant.

Best of luck to y'all. Hang in there Cookies this might just be your month after all [emoji6].

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[Cookies22]

Thank you all so much for your words of support and encouragement. It means so much to me, it really does. I was thinking about your posts on my walk today and how your support really makes me feel so much less alone at a time when I feel very, very much alone on this journey.

I've been upping my calories a bit, from 1550 to as much as 1800 and will weigh myself tomorrow to see how I'm going. The way I see it, I just can't really afford to lose any more weight so even if I gain half a kilo I can lose that again easily in a fortnight. I'm finding it hard to get to my fat and protein goals because I can't eat dairy and I'm not eating meat... where else on earth does one find fat & protein without meat or dairy...

I had such strong pregnancy symptoms with my last pregnancy (that ended in miscarriage) from 6DPO (implantation pain, increased discharge, dizziness etc) so it's hard not to symptom spot this time around. Lucky I've been busy with work etc so that keeps my mind off it. I think I'm going to tell myself I'm doing this for 3 more months and then will re-evaluate after that.

@Atomic, how long do you think I should stick with 1 attempt / E4D before adding attempts? I conceived DS2 with one attempt and DH always wants to do every second day when in the fertile week, so just making a game plan for the future. It is hard when I so badly want to be pregnant again after my loss but am just having 1 attempt in the fertile window (which got me a beautiful DS last time anyway!). It's 3 years since I last conceived so I can't help but think my age is a factor (I'm 36 now) and as a Dr said to me when I had my IUD removed a year ago, 'it might take longer for you to conceive this time around'. I know a lot of women conceive easily when they're over 35 (Mum had me at 39 and my sister at 36), but I have 2 out of 3 MTHF genetic mutations so am conscious of miscarriage risks with my age etc.

Part of me thinks maybe we should have started trying earlier, when I was 35, but I wanted my DS2 to have at least 3 years as the baby of the family, that means a lot to me. We didn't feel ready until relatively recently.

[onelittlewish]

11dpo and BFN here :sad:

[onelittlewish]

11dpo and BFN here :sad:

Ok I take that back…my FRER arrived tonight and I tested in the late evening and I think I am seeing a vvvvvvvvvvvvfl at 4 min mark. I hope its not my line eyes or evap or another ghost line. Last time I said I saw a shadow on my antigen test and DH thought I was crazy :worry: I hope this is really it

43585

[9jamama01]

OMG!! I think I can see the second. I pray this is the beginning of your bfp, Onelittlewish [emoji1696]. Congratulations [emoji3060]

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[onelittlewish]

OMG!! I think I can see the second. I pray this is the beginning of your bfp, Onelittlewish [emoji1696]. Congratulations [emoji3060]

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Thank you 9jamama, I took another FRER today this morning and the lines are still super faint. It came up within 5 min but I can't tell if there is color to it since it is barely there but I don't have to squint to see the lines at all. I know it's only been 8 hours since my last test but I am still nervous that it won't progress. I used a cheapie (10 miu) and the lines came up after it dried up but a proper line. I'll probably test again tomorrow or wait till I miss my period but it's hard to not get my hopes up. How are you doing?

[9jamama01]

That's so exciting Onelittlewish, hopefully you'll get a clear bfp tomorrow. it's so annoying when you have to squint to see a line, it leaves you wondering and hoping.

As for me, AF is here right on time. DH came back from his trip and I told him we had to BD today because AF would show her face today but he was quite hopeful, it wouldn't start. But she's here and I'm sure he's glad he listened to me, though we are both sad it didn't work out again. If only getting pregnant was simple.

I've started cardio, and reduced my food portion size. My goal is to reduce 5kg within the next 2 months. I've asked DH to visit the doctor for a sperm analysis. I don't know if there's anything else I can do in the meantime.

Good luck to everyone trying.

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[onelittlewish]

That's so exciting Onelittlewish, hopefully you'll get a clear bfp tomorrow. it's so annoying when you have to squint to see a line, it leaves you wondering and hoping.

As for me, AF is here right on time. DH came back from his trip and I told him we had to BD today because AF would show her face today but he was quite hopeful, it wouldn't start. But she's here and I'm sure he's glad he listened to me, though we are both sad it didn't work out again. If only getting pregnant was simple.

I've started cardio, and reduced my food portion size. My goal is to reduce 5kg within the next 2 months. I've asked DH to visit the doctor for a sperm analysis. I don't know if there's anything else I can do in the meantime.

Good luck to everyone trying.

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I am sorry that this is not the month for you…sperm analysis is also what we will do if this month fails. I was at my highest weight when I conceived my DS1. We were traveling and i was eating alot and I was doing weight and eating very clean and trying to build up muscles. I lost all my baby weight + some more before conceiving DS2 but I was eating alot of steak. I went from veggie + chicken lover to steak lover after having DS1. I always thought swaying blue is easier but I guess when we sway we change our body in one way or another.

I took another frer with FMU today and still very faint line. I got my blood drawn this morning because I just need to know if those lines mean anything. I can’t be getting 3 days of ghost lines right? I never see a line on my frers but I know they are notorious for indents. Even I am indeed preg kind of doubt whether this is a viable one. Will know later today..

[Cookies22]

Hi guys, I am so happy to report I received a BFP tonight, at 9DPO... I had really strong back pain two days ago that just wouldn't budge, and the only other time I have had that feeling was when I implanted with my last pregnancy.

Hoping everything goes well with this one... the line at 9DPO is stronger than my last one was at 10DPO and 11DPO, so hoping all is well in there. I took a FRER tonight after dinner, and thought it would be negative because I drank 3 litres of water today, but it came up positive before 3 mins.

Now I'm paranoid because looking back at my posts here, the day after my ov cramping I ate 3 meals instead of my usual 2... please Atomic reassure my crazy brain that that third meal while possibly ovulating hasn't ruined my sway? I remember that day I didn't get to eat anything until after 2pm (which would surely be good, sway-wise), then I ate dinner at 6pm and another meal at 9 (it was more like a snack than a meal). I also did my 1 hour cardio. I didn't log my 9pm calories, only my two meals; the 2 meals came to 866 cals (15g protein, 153g carbs, 22g fat). Hopefully that 18 hour fast in the morning did good things for my sway on O day and the 9pm snack hasn't ruined me!

It seems to make more sense that the egg would have its chemical makeup decided before it is released, and that it would be more geared toward XX or XY prior to its release, rather than changing which sperm it prefers on ovulation day? Am I making any sense at all (crazy lady here). Like in the months and months you're swaying your body starts deciding to release the pink eggs because times are harder?

One thing that definitely felt different this month is that I had ZERO sex drive. Normally I have to hold myself back from O during BD for the sake of my sway, but this month there was literally no way I was going to orgasm. My libido was literally non existent. I wonder if that has something to do with the post-miscarriage hormones.

I'm so happy to be pregnant, baby will be due around Jan 7. Sending everyone all the babydust, I hope if this month isn't your month then next month is. Xx

[Thefinalcountdown]

Yay! Great news!! No- one meal isn’t going to hurt anything! I was eating lots of cals when I got preg with my girls but the fasting was really the key. It’s the overall trend! I think you have a great shot! Lots of all girl moms have zero sex drive! Praying for a healthy baby!!!


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[polaris.kai]

Congratulations!!

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[onelittlewish]

So happy for you Cookies! I think it's the long term environment that matters, otherwise we can just starve ourselves for a week and then get a girl. It would be so much easier!

As to my situation, I am not sure what to think! I just received my result and it came back <5miu meaning I am not pregnant at all. Out of curiosity I took another FRER and a line came up within a minute, meaning FRER is detecting something <5miu or an indent came up before the window? I spotted a little this afternoon and period due tomorrow so 99% I am out this cycle.

[Cookies22]

Thanks girls! Totally freaking and over thinking that one snack on ov day, if only I’d stopped myself but I was STARVING and I don’t think I would have been able to sleep if I hadn’t eaten something, my stomach was eating itself alive while I was putting my sons down to bed and I was under my daily totals. Maybe part of it is your body asking for fuel when it needs it to conceive a baby. It’s not like I ate a chocolate cake lol, it was just a bit more of my dinner from earlier in the evening (pumpkin risotto) and pretty sure my stomach still felt empty when I was falling asleep, it’s not like I loaded up on a huge meal. I never usually had a snack / meal at 9pm so I’m maybe it was my body asking for what it needed to do it’s conception thing. I’m a crazy person really, I mean 3 hours is not going to make any difference! Maybe I’ll just tell myself I had a long dinner at a restaurant that night and ate from 6pm-9pm — that would still be considered one meal!

This seems to just be what I do, sway and then over-analyse / criticise what I did �� at least I was relaxed while I was swaying, it’s only afterwards that I get all Martha!

@onelittlewish I’m so sorry :( it’s so hard when you’re testing and uncertain, the not knowing is the worst. Please let us know how you go.

[9jamama01]

Congratulations Cookies!!! Please stop worrying about that one meal, you've worked hard to sway and now you're pregnant, so you can relax now [emoji23] one meal probably won't change the outcome.

Onelittlewish sorry to hear that. Would you be doing anything differently next month?

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[Cookies22]

I hope it won't change the outcome! The word 'probably' scares me and my crazy lady brain hahahaha. But heck, I'm telling myself that 'I was at a dinner that evening that went from 6-9pm so it can count as one meal' ;) It was a snack too, not even a whole meal! My stomach was still grizzly when I went to sleep because I was hungry from my LONG 18 hour fast earlier that day.

I'm also wondering if I actually ovulated earlier than I thought? Because this FRER (with diluted urine from drinking 3 litres of water today) looks way too dark for 9DPO in my opinion... thoughts? I compared it with my positive test results from my previous two pregnancies and this is WAAAAAY darker than they were at 10, 11 and 12 DPO?

43590

It's 12:30am here, I'm buzzing because I can't believe I'm pregnant again after the whirlwind of last month with covid and a loss. Going to be so tired tomorrow lol.

Just saw a thread where Atomic says she always had 3 meals and would have one just before bed because she has a high metabolism and can't sleep otherwise... Same here @Atomic! Always been a skinny gal who flies through food, 'hollow legs' my Mum always says! This was a one off though, it wasn't my normal pattern to eat before bed, which is probably why I lost so much weight on LE (and also why I'm freaking out about it) ;).

[atomic sagebrush]

Thank you 9jamama, I took another FRER today this morning and the lines are still super faint. It came up within 5 min but I can't tell if there is color to it since it is barely there but I don't have to squint to see the lines at all. I know it's only been 8 hours since my last test but I am still nervous that it won't progress. I used a cheapie (10 miu) and the lines came up after it dried up but a proper line. I'll probably test again tomorrow or wait till I miss my period but it's hard to not get my hopes up. How are you doing?

I'm worried this may be one of those faker lines we keep getting. Something in the way they made tests changed a couple years back and we get these faint positives that don't progress. KFX.

[atomic sagebrush]

Cookies - Awesome news!!!

If anything we ate for one day could make any difference, I'd have you guys do diet for one day. It is normal to be extra hungry around O time and it is normal for people to eat a bit extra on O day (there's even studies that demonstrate this). You NEEDED to eat more that day because you hadn't eaten enough. 866 calories is not allowed on LE Diet, it's starvation and is not what anyone should be eating on this site, period, end of story.

Plus, both 2 and 3 meals have always been allowed on LE Diet and so you didn't even go against the rules of the diet. I ate 3 meals every day when I got my girl. We just push back that first meal and still eat 3 meals. It's all about doing what works for you and it's absolutely fine to eat 2 sometimes and 3 sometimes, lots of people do that.

And NO, not eating till 2pm is NOT GOOD sway wise (meaning, please, no one, aim to do that, it does not have the atomic seal of approval) because it does NOTHING WHATSOEVER, since nothing we do for one day does anything beneficial for a sway, and it CAN delay or even stop ovulation. Starving yourself around O is not allowed on LE Diet because it does not help anyone's sway and it can mess up the cycle. I know you weren't advocating for that, Cookies, and just reporting what happened, but I regularly have people read things like this and say "huh what a great idea, i'll do that too" and they may not have the same resilience you had with sudden low cal intake just prior to O.

What you're doing with speculating about "eggs preferring certain sperm" is simply not at all proven. We don't know why swaying works (just as possible it has to do with the overall environment favoring one sperm over another) and I find that the more you guys focus on the speculation, the less you just do what actually WORKS. Boy-girl twins, are a thing. People get both XX and XY in IVF rounds. So it just can't be that the egg is picking a certain sperm ALONE, it has to be more complicated than that. Please just do what has worked for most people most of the time and dispense with telling yourself how it all works, because no one even knows, and people get locked in mentally to courses of action for no reason making assumptions about "eggs choosing sperm" when it may not even work that way. There ARE no pink eggs, or should I say they are ALL pink eggs. There are X and Y sperm but all eggs are X and that cannot change.

Based on our results, we have a clear demarkation between people who swayed only 2-4 weeks (who were virtually all insanely strict, even starving themselves) getting POOR results vs. people on diet 12+ weeks getting good results (the majority of whom had relaxed on diet during that time and were never ever as strict as the 2-4 week dieters). This has been an observable effect since the earliest days of the site. Given this, there is absolutely no way that a single extra meal undermined anyone's sway.

Lower sex drive is quite common on diet, but is also common the month after a loss. We do take that as an encouraging sign though of course not a guarantee!

[atomic sagebrush]

Cookies - we can't tell anything from darkness of pregnancy tests. It has too much to do wiht the amount of hormone in your system when you conceived. This is not set in stone, so you can have less HCG sometimes, more other times. People have anywhere from 0-5 HCG when they are not pregnant, and when you are pregnant it doubles, like this:

Person A starts off with 0 HCG and their levels rise like this: 0, 1, 2, 4, 8. Person B (or, Person A in a different pregnancy) starts off at 5 HCG and their levels rise like this: 5, 10, 20, 40, 80. This would be on the SAME day of the cycle, but one person would have 10 times as much measurable hormone, but the baby they're both carrying would be at the same point of development. Thus, you can't use the darkness of apregnancy test to tell you how far along you are or when you ovulated in any but the most generic of senses.

[onelittlewish]

@9jamama, I think I need to add attempts (so 2 attempts in my fertile window) next month. I conceived both boys with that so I really wanted to stick with one attempt in fertile window. We tried that 7 out of the 8 months and 2 attempts on my last month on clomid all failed. So I guess I need to let that go. We will probably do sperm analysis to rule that out but we need to discuss with my doc further. Then I think I should stop testing before missed period but I doubt that will happen. I think I was really relaxed this cycle because I was not charting BBT but on the flip side if I have been charting I'd know for sure whether those faint lines are valid. Either way, keep me updated how you are doing!

@atomic, I really thought I was preg you know because I never got a line on FRER although I had read about alot of heartbreaking stories about the evaps and indents. And prior to my 1st line at 11dpo, I only ever got stark blank ones even after they were completely dried out. Also I tend to get clearer lines from evening urine even without long hold (I tested 11dpo evening, 12 SMU and 13 FMU & evening). The morning ones are alot fainter but yea...none of them are really "pink". Will know tomorrow for sure.

@cookies, i got you! I couldn't sleep until 2am on the night when I was surprised with 2 lines. Thought the lines would disappear in the morning. But yours looks decent! With my DS2, I got my first faint line on 8dpo based on BBT (max 10dpo from our 1st BD because we only had 2 BDs that month) and when I got my blood drawn on the next morning, my HCG level was 34 already and I couldn't have implanted 6 days ago? Perhaps the hcg doubled in a shorter amount of time or the starting level was higher? Either way, you have a beautiful positive there and stop worrying and enjoy being pregnant and eat whenever and whatever you want :wink:

[atomic sagebrush]

KFX!!!

[Cookies22]

I just have to say I love this thread. Everyone is so supportive and lovely.

@Atomic I've been down a little rabbit hole this evening! I was thinking about this article that I read recently about how women's eggs choose sperm https://edition.cnn.com/2020/06/09/health/sperm-choice-female-eggs-wellness/index.html

and this quote: "Finally, the egg can affect which sperm wins the race with the chemicals it releases in the follicular fluid that surrounds the egg. That's the part which contains the chemical breadcrumbs eggs use to attract and guide sperm to their goal."

"And it's only in the last two centimeters between a sperm and the egg that these chemical signals matter since it's the final phase of this long journey where females continue weeding out less acceptable sperm," Fitzgerald said.

Then, when researching follicular fluid, I learned that it is created in the 'antral stage' of follicular development, which is described as "Antral period: A class 4 (1 to 2 mm) follicle, if selected, requires about 50 days to grow and develop to the preovulatory stage. The dominant follicle of the cycle appears to be selected from a cohort of class five follicles, and it requires about 20 days to develop to the ovulatory stage." https://www.glowm.com/section-view/heading/Follicle%20Growth%20and%20Development/item/288#.Yme-tPNBxJU

So it makes sense that swaying needs to occur for a minimum of 12 weeks in order to (potentially) affect the makeup of the egg or change the overall condition of the body. If the follicular fluid has an impact on which sperm is selected (which it appears to from the above study), and follicular fluid is formed in the antral stage of development, which is 50 days prior to release, then it all makes sense! If LE / fasting / lower nutrient affects the makeup of the follicular fluid, then it would theoretically take 50-70 days to show that effect.

Science! I love it! This all makes a lot of sense in my head now. Hence why, as you say, one day doesn't make a difference... your body has most likely decided many, many weeks ago what sperm that egg will prefer, when the follicular fluid was developed in the antral stage. Good eggs take time eh!

All of this could be incorrect but from your swaying experience it all sort of lines up more or less.

[onelittlewish]

Spotting started today and I took another FRER and the line is actually pretty much gone too. So onto the next cycle! And I think I'd get back to charting...if I had charted this cycle I'd have known for sure whether I was out or not days ago. I really hate this guessing game! Good luck ladies!

@cookies, do you plan to find out the gender? Keep us updated!

[atomic sagebrush]

But Cookies, all that is just speculation. That study had nothing to do with gender whatsoever, and was about an egg "weeding out" sperm from partners that may be perceived on some microscopic level as less desirable, not picking X or Y. X and Y sperm are all just one big megasperm XY cell, wearing the same skin, till very late in development, they may be identical on an external level, and we do not know that eggs have any way of differentiating the two of them.

Plus, it does not explain a)boy girl twins, b) how people doing IVF rounds can get both XX and XY, c) how Clomid, which is used the MONTH OF conception and not months in advance, may sway gender, d) how one attempt might therefore sway, because it sure seems to, e) how we can see things that men do, completely disparate and seemingly unrelated things like being a jet fighter, a deep sea diver, an anesthesiologist, jogging/biking, smoking, having certain illnesses and taking certain medications- that have nothing to do whatsoever with the egg's development because they're all things that MEN do, alters the gender ratio.

The reason why this matters, and why I don't like to see anyone getting too hung up on speculation, is because there are people who will skip perfectly good months because of things that are basically scientists musing out loud, not even hypotheses and certainly not even theories. There are people who will decide "I'll do LE Diet for 400 years before I get pregnant and get a guarantee, because eggs choose sperm, I read it on CNN." There are people who, if they go off diet ONE TIME will then skip months waiting for an ideal month, which puts them at risk of a binge-purge cycle alternating back and forth between starving themselves and gorging. There are people who will take herbs and medications, with unknown side effects for swaying and potential risks trying to emulate some "effect" which is entirely speculatory in nature (all the testosterone/progesterone crap falls under this umbrella). And, there are people who simply don't have 12 weeks to wait around and need to start trying sooner; I personally strongly believe that even a short time swaying is better than none at all, and focusing on theory that they can't adhere to, only discourages them.

There are a LOT of negatives here. All from speculation based on ONE study done in sixteen people who needed assisted reproductive technology to conceive, that wasn't even ABOUT GENDER AT ALL. There weren't even eggs involved, only sperm and follicular fluid. So I simply don't find it prudent to speculate about what we're doing here based on anything in that study, to any extent other than just a "hey, that's interesting" kind of way because it really doesn't apply to us. The truth is, we know next to nothing about how any of this works. Ladies, just keep doing what has worked for most people, most of the time, to such an extent as it works for you personally. If you can't do everything to the utmost extent, your sway is not doomed to fail based on this study or anything else.

I know you guys are probably puzzled as to why I am always so emphatically rejecting speculation in favor of "known unknowns" and all that, but it's because I have seen disaster ensue 123,456,789 times over these kinds of things. I have watched people pass up months that were perfectly fine only to end up trying in months that were much less fine. I have seen people who sink into morasses of despair over these types of speculatory notions being reported as fact in the media. I have seen people who don't even bother to sway, walking away from a better chance of having a baby of their desired gender, because they're so convinced by speculation (like, a person who just found out about swaying, has only two months to try, and no time to do a sway diet). I have seen the reverse happen, where people who are 43+ years old decide to do a sway diet or O+12 or whatever else for months before trying, when time was very much not on their side. And, I have seen people get consumed in a control freakish way, undoubtedly undermining their sways by far more than they could ever have helped it, by becoming obsessed with stuff that is nothing more than guessing.

[Cookies22]

Thanks Atomic. I guess I was just looking for some info that could confirm that what happens on ov day (what you eat etc and your blood sugar levels) doesn’t affect what gender you get. It’s silly but the pregnancy hormones are making me beat myself up over my late night 9pm snack on ov day, because it was later than I would usually eat and my glucose may have been high when I dropped the egg or conceived and I worry that will hinder my sway when I did so well on all the other aspects. Like you say, if clomid can affect your sway over one month, whose to say that 3 meals vs 2 doesn’t cut your odds significantly..

BUT as you say I was starving and wouldn’t have been able to sleep. My body was likely sending the message that I needed some calories after that 18 hour fast, and maybe just maybe that was because it needed them in order to conceive and if I hadn't eaten I wouldn't have fallen pregnant at all! I just wish I knew then what I know now (that I was about to conceive), but having said that, 860 calories total in one day is insanity and could have prevented pregnancy. I'd only had 15 grams of protein that day too, so a low protein snack of 150 cals or so would have been digested very swiftly.

And you also did say that 3 meals is what most women do on LE, so I need to remember that. 2 meals is just too huge for my small stomach. I think the only reason I'm stressing now is because I'd posted about it here and asked the question; if I hadn't posted about it I would have forgotten altogether! A lot of other days on LE I'd eat lunch at 12, exercise at 4, then dinner at 5.30-6, then take my kids for a shower and have a second small helping at 6.30 or so, which would probably be less desirable from a glucose point of view than having lunch at 2pm (which was 570 cals), a small dinner at 6pm (296 cals) waiting 3 hours, getting starving before bed and eating a snack / small meal (150 or 200 cals) to help me sleep like I did that day.

I also know a few women who eat barely anything in the day and then SNACK like gremlins allllll through the night, don’t stop drinking wine and eating after dinner and eat packets of biscuits etc etc in front of the tv and have all girls. So I need to get past this.

Hormones plus anxiety are tough. I'm sorry for all my posting. I know it’s anxiety talking because I can see how crazy it is, and I've had OCD in the past. My OCD always revolves around one small thing I did in the past that I ruminate on and wish I'd changed. I know I’d be feeling this way no matter what because there is always something you could have done differently when swaying, so no doubt I would latch onto something else to worry about. Also it's hard when it’s your second sway, if you know what I mean. Brings back a lot of feelings. I guess I should be grateful that this tiny, insignificant thing is what's worrying me, rather than something significant like having 3 attempts in the fertile window or eating 10,000 calories that day and for weeks leading up to BFP.

Now that I’m eating “normally” again, when I look at that day on fitness pal it looks a lot like starvation to me. Barely any protein, which explains why I was so hungry and still felt empty when I went to sleep.

@Onelittewish I’m not sure yet :crawl: I think if we do find out I’ll get the NIPT results so it’s a definite result but won’t read them later, til later after the 20 week scan etc to secretly find out… but that’s IF we do. I’m on the fence at the moment, I want to think of it as a baby and not a boy or girl & just getting used to the idea of being preggers again (so happy about it!) but will see how I feel once the first trimester hormones ease (they’re always the toughest for me and I get a lot of antenatal anxiety in the first 12 weeks). It’s hard. Anxiety is a curse. With the whirlwind of pregnancy, covid, miscarriage and floods last month I feel like I don’t know what is up and down. Really looking forward to getting to my dating scan and seeing this little baby. I got a blood test this morning so looking forward to getting those results from my Dr.

I’m so sorry this wasn’t your month @onelittewish. The temping sounds like a great idea, it’ll give you more guidance. Will you be doing two attempts next cycle? It sounds like a solid plan. It’s hard with E4D isn’t it, especially when guessing with OPKS. You are amazing for keeping on going, we’re here to cheer you on! Xx

[Cookies22]

Ok, so further to my rambling below (please excuse me!), I am feeling much more calm about my snack at 9pm that night. I did the (approximate) math on it, and based on 12 charts where I tracked temps to confirm ovulation, I cramp 24 hours before I ovulate, which means I would have been in a complete fasting state during the first 12 hours of my ovulation the month I conceived (2am-2pm), which is fab as most eggs are fertilised in that first 12 hours. Data shows most women cramp when they get their surge too, which is 24-36 hours before ovulation (lines up with my experience). So if your blood glucose levels at time of ovulation have any effect, mine were nice and low anyway. Based on the available research and my own charts that back it up, I'm happy with that and its put my mind at ease hugely.

Also, got my blood results today! According to my calculations I'm 3 weeks 3 days and HCG is 154. Does that seem high to anyone else? I can't remember what my HCG results were with my two older children.

[Cookies22]

Does anyone have experience with HCG levels? Mine came in at 154 at 11DPO yesterday which seems really high… I don’t get to see my doctor til 4pm tomorrow so won’t be able to get another blood draw til next week I’m guessing.

[afya1]

Hey ladies, I hope you don’t mind me chiming in. I’m currently on CD 7 AF just finished and I’m slowly going to move on to my attempts. I had a missed Miscarriage last year in April. DH and I were Ttc in winter but then stopped again, we just weren’t sure whether we were ready. Now we’re back on the Ttc journey. Ideally I just want to up my chances conceiving. I’ve kept up a fairly healthy diet with lots of nutrition protein, dairy, meat, fruit etc.

atomic sagebrush any last min advice for Ttc?? I’ve already started the Mucinex and will use the least amount of Preseed. I’ve noticed recently I’ve started to Ovulate earlier. I’m going to start my opks.


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[treens]

Hello AFUA1

Wishing you all the best of luck are you swaying for a girl or boy?

[treens]

Hi all I am here month #2 TTC girl I believe I ovulated yesterday April 28th CD 14 We had 1 attempt CD13 the day before O. fingers crossed

Who else is on the wait?

[afya1]

Hello AFUA1

Wishing you all the best of luck are you swaying for a girl or boy?

Hey Treens,

I currently have 2 girls and a Boy.. last year I had a miscarriage at 15 weeks. She was a girl [emoji3064] originally I would of loved a brother for my DS. But right now I would just love to conceive and have a healthy baby. I want to increase my chances of conception. I think I remember you from the 2021 group! If I’m right you had a baby boy?


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[treens]

I am sorry for your loss :(
Yes I had a Boy in August after a successful boy sway. :)
We would love a little girl but honestly we would love a boy too just a healthy baby.

I hope you get your healthy baby soon!

[afya1]

Are you swaying with your diet? Have you had your attempts? If you don’t mind me asking what things did you do to increase fertility? I’m on CD 8 today, currently using CB opk and the strips, I’m from previous cycles I usually get a positive opk on or around CD13-14. We’re just sticking to every 2-4 days release inside. I’m taking Mucinex, folic acid and prenatal. In all honesty I haven’t been as active as I wanted to be. Let’s see how it works out


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[9jamama01]

Sorry for your loss Afya, hope you get your bfp soon.


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[Cookies22]

Hi Atomic, I just remembered my doctor said my cholesterol is very low (when pregnant with my youngest child my doctor suggested I go and eat some fat off a chicken to get some more cholesterol). It’s always been very low, my Dad’s is the same.

Do you have any suggestions for what I can eat or do to increase my cholesterol levels?

Thank you xxxx

[atomic sagebrush]

Well, most cholesterol in the body doesn't come from eating, but yes absolutely please eat as much animal fat - full fat dairy, eggs, meat - and do not take fiber supplements if you can get away with it. You ~may~ want to cut back on vegetable oils, using butter for cooking instead.

(I don't think eating chicken skin, which is not really something most people have access to in any appreciable amount, is a very effective way of getting fat and cholesterol in your diet and find that advice a bit odd.)

[atomic sagebrush]

Cookies, the information that confirms that what happens on O Day doesn't affect what gender you get is right there in what I have already told you. Boy girl twins. IVF rounds. The fact that we see much worse results in people doing diet 2-4 weeks even though most of them were extremely strict, and much better results in people doing diet 12 weeks or more even though most of them have relaxed over time. The fact that gobs upon gobs of people have asked me this question already, and the fact that gobs upon gobs of people have cut way back on food intake around O (or ate a lot, when swaying blue) and the fact that I have observed all of this for the better part of 14 years now. It just doesn't matter and you needed that food.

I am at a loss to understand why a study done in 16 people, in an entirely different thing that had nothing to do with gender, that didn't even involve eggs themselves, is worth more in your mind than the very thorough explanations I have given you. No one on earth can give you the certainty you crave, but if there WAS one person on earth who could answer your question with the biggest body of knowledge about this rather obscure subject, it would be me. I understand this is just anxiety and all the rest of it, but please trust me when I say you've already gotten confirmation that what happens on O day doesn't affect gender. It may not have been on CNN, but it's still the best information that exists here and now.

As you already know, in my opinion, your BMI and your diet overall - at least that day - was not good. What you were eating - 800 calories?? 15 grams protein? With a BMI of 17???? That is the kind of thing that makes me wake up in a cold sweat in the middle of the night. It is simply not allowed, it is not LE Diet, it is starvation, and not only that, it doesn't help people get girls anyway (since nearly everyone would lose ovulation and have to basically sway blue to get it going again). You were insanely lucky to not have that happen. Count your blessings instead of dwelling on this thing that made absolutely no difference whatsoever.

Our good results have been in people eating much more than that, with higher BMI, not starving themselves at ovulation, etc etc etc. There is no way that's what is required to conceive a girl, because if it was, we'd not be getting the results that we have been. I would certainly not have had a girl as I ate at least twice that much and always ate 3 meals. The past two years we've been more relaxed on diet than ever and our results are better than ever, so please just put this fear to bed for once and for all.

[atomic sagebrush]

Ok, so further to my rambling below (please excuse me!), I am feeling much more calm about my snack at 9pm that night. I did the (approximate) math on it, and based on 12 charts where I tracked temps to confirm ovulation, I cramp 24 hours before I ovulate, which means I would have been in a complete fasting state during the first 12 hours of my ovulation the month I conceived (2am-2pm), which is fab as most eggs are fertilised in that first 12 hours. Data shows most women cramp when they get their surge too, which is 24-36 hours before ovulation (lines up with my experience). So if your blood glucose levels at time of ovulation have any effect, mine were nice and low anyway. Based on the available research and my own charts that back it up, I'm happy with that and its put my mind at ease hugely.

Also, got my blood results today! According to my calculations I'm 3 weeks 3 days and HCG is 154. Does that seem high to anyone else? I can't remember what my HCG results were with my two older children.

You can't tell when you ovulate based on O cramps or charts. I have already explained this elsewhere and I know you won't listen, but you are just destroying yourself with this type of rabbithole, hamster wheel thinking and for no reason.

If this gives you peace of mind, whatever, but it just isn't true that anyone is able to tell anything to this level of specificity. I don't say this to rain on your parade or to undermine your sense of well being, but I can't support things that are provably untrue in addition to being completely unneccessary for all the reasons I've already gone into re: that starving yourself at ovulation is in any way required to get a girl.

I'll answer your HCG levels in the next post.

[atomic sagebrush]

Does anyone have experience with HCG levels? Mine came in at 154 at 11DPO yesterday which seems really high… I don’t get to see my doctor til 4pm tomorrow so won’t be able to get another blood draw til next week I’m guessing.

I looked it up on Betabase and the highest reported HCG level for a singleton pregnancy at 11 DPO was 364. Yours may be higher than average, but it's by no means an outlier in terms of the range we see at that stage of gestation.

[atomic sagebrush]

Hey ladies, I hope you don’t mind me chiming in. I’m currently on CD 7 AF just finished and I’m slowly going to move on to my attempts. I had a missed Miscarriage last year in April. DH and I were Ttc in winter but then stopped again, we just weren’t sure whether we were ready. Now we’re back on the Ttc journey. Ideally I just want to up my chances conceiving. I’ve kept up a fairly healthy diet with lots of nutrition protein, dairy, meat, fruit etc.

atomic sagebrush any last min advice for Ttc?? I’ve already started the Mucinex and will use the least amount of Preseed. I’ve noticed recently I’ve started to Ovulate earlier. I’m going to start my opks.


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Afya, please always start your own thread with urgent questions as these support threads can be sometimes hard for me to keep up with. Tagging doesn't work as everyone would just tag me, LOL. I would just try to be in with 3+ attempts in the fertile window and stay laying down at least 30 minutes, spending part of that time on your stomach.

Good luck and blue dust headed your way!

[treens]

When we ttc blue we used used preseed the month that we conceived I actually used the applicator the way they said to use it. I feel that really helped before i was just using a little for comfort. Also making sure to eat meals and snack often. I also took CoQ10 for a few months before, prenatal extra folic, fish oil, probiotic. I would also do weights and walk quite a bit.

I really think it has to do with keeping up your blood sugar and not going hungry but that is just my opinion! Wishing you all the best!

[9jamama01]

Hello ladies, how are you all doing?

Cookies has morning sickness kicked in yet? Onelittlewish any attempts this month? Jazmin have you resumed Swaying? Goodluck to everyone trying. I can't wait to start attempting again, but I really feel good
taking this break.

Best of luck ladies [emoji846]

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[onelittlewish]

Hello ladies, how are you all doing?

Cookies has morning sickness kicked in yet? Onelittlewish any attempts this month? Jazmin have you resumed Swaying? Goodluck to everyone trying. I can't wait to start attempting again, but I really feel good
taking this break.

Best of luck ladies [emoji846]

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Hi 9jamama, thanks for checking in! Im at CD13 and had our regular attempts now still waiting for my pos OPK here...hopefully soon! How long will your break be?

[Cookies22]

Hi @ 9jamama, thanks for checking in! Morning sickness has well and truly kicked in, so challenging with two older children to care for! Sending you all lots of baby dust for your attempts this month!

[afya1]

Hi 9jamama, thanks for checking in! Im at CD13 and had our regular attempts now still waiting for my pos OPK here...hopefully soon! How long will your break be?

Hii onelittlewish,

Did you get a positive opk yet? Hoping you got all your attempts in. Im currently about 3DPO, I got a Positive opk on Friday morning, I think we didn’t do enough, I feel like DH ran out of steam!! Pretty sure we’ll be on to the next month.


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[onelittlewish]

Hii onelittlewish,

Did you get a positive opk yet? Hoping you got all your attempts in. Im currently about 3DPO, I got a Positive opk on Friday morning, I think we didn’t do enough, I feel like DH ran out of steam!! Pretty sure we’ll be on to the next month.


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I did! I got three days of pos OPKs and clearblue peaked only on the third day today so not sure when did/will i ovulate. We had an attempt last night and ideally another tonight but couldn’t make it…so I don’t know too. I am charting as well so I guess my temp will shed some light on what’s going on in a few days!

Are you swaying boy?

[afya1]

I hope you get your peak and can go in for some nice attempts! Lol I was able to go in for a few attempts, really I’m just trying to keep myself calm and content. In past years I go crazy and crazy symptom spotting.
In all honesty right now I’d love to conceive and just trying to increase chances of conception, I had a missed miscarriage a year ago she would of been our 3rd Girl. Though I was hoping to balance things out at that particular time I did try to follow a somewhat mild sway.
(I have 2 DDs and 1 DS) but I’ve reached a point in my life where I want a healthy baby that I can carry to term.

Btw, how do you find temping? I’ve intrigued when ladies speak of temping and are able to see when they did actually ovulate. Do you have an average time from as to when you do ovulate?


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[onelittlewish]

I hope you get your peak and can go in for some nice attempts! Lol I was able to go in for a few attempts, really I’m just trying to keep myself calm and content. In past years I go crazy and crazy symptom spotting.
In all honesty right now I’d love to conceive and just trying to increase chances of conception, I had a missed miscarriage a year ago she would of been our 3rd Girl. Though I was hoping to balance things out at that particular time I did try to follow a somewhat mild sway.
(I have 2 DDs and 1 DS) but I’ve reached a point in my life where I want a healthy baby that I can carry to term.

Btw, how do you find temping? I’ve intrigued when ladies speak of temping and are able to see when they did actually ovulate. Do you have an average time from as to when you do ovulate?


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Thank you! My OPK went neg this morning so we will just continue e4d until my temp confirms O.

For me charting is not that stressful because I have been charting for a while and I have had all kinds of "patterns" so I have learnt not to overanalyse the temp changes. I temp because it takes a lot of guessing game out and helps me to confirm whether ovulation has happened and whether I am pregnant or not. Last month I wasn't able to temp because my tot threw my thermometer away. I thought yay and I did feel quite "relaxed". But then later for the first time I got 3 pos OPKs in a row (I usually get 2 days max) and I had absolutely no clue what was going on and whether I O'ed or not. Then later I got faint lines on HPT for 3 consecutive days and it turned out I was never preg (confirmed by blood test). If I had charted last month there wouldn't be so much anxiety and frustration over the uncertainty. I would have known that I have O'ed with the temp rise and I would have known that I wasn't pregnant because my temp started dropping. But I know for alot of people it is a stressful thing to do on top of ttc.

You cannot pin point the actual ovulation time/date but you will know the possible window narrowed down to probably 2-3 days. I ovulate from CD13-CD18, most of the time CD14/15..and I am CD16 today! So quite a late one this month...

I am so sorry for your lost! How long have you been ttc-ing this time? I always thought it is much easier to sway blue because you can have multiple attempts in the fertile window and the diet boosts fertility, but apparently I was super wrong. I got both my boys with two attempts in the fertile window so you def got a chance! I feel you, I just want to get pregnant too. I feel like we can only do so much and the rest is totally beyond our control. Praying that this is our month!

[afya1]

Thank you! My OPK went neg this morning so we will just continue e4d until my temp confirms O.

For me charting is not that stressful because I have been charting for a while and I have had all kinds of "patterns" so I have learnt not to overanalyse the temp changes. I temp because it takes a lot of guessing game out and helps me to confirm whether ovulation has happened and whether I am pregnant or not. Last month I wasn't able to temp because my tot threw my thermometer away. I thought yay and I did feel quite "relaxed". But then later for the first time I got 3 pos OPKs in a row (I usually get 2 days max) and I had absolutely no clue what was going on and whether I O'ed or not. Then later I got faint lines on HPT for 3 consecutive days and it turned out I was never preg (confirmed by blood test). If I had charted last month there wouldn't be so much anxiety and frustration over the uncertainty. I would have known that I have O'ed with the temp rise and I would have known that I wasn't pregnant because my temp started dropping. But I know for alot of people it is a stressful thing to do on top of ttc.

You cannot pin point the actual ovulation time/date but you will know the possible window narrowed down to probably 2-3 days. I ovulate from CD13-CD18, most of the time CD14/15..and I am CD16 today! So quite a late one this month...

I am so sorry for your lost! How long have you been ttc-ing this time? I always thought it is much easier to sway blue because you can have multiple attempts in the fertile window and the diet boosts fertility, but apparently I was super wrong. I got both my boys with two attempts in the fertile window so you def got a chance! I feel you, I just want to get pregnant too. I feel like we can only do so much and the rest is totally beyond our control. Praying that this is our month!

Thank you onelittlewish. I’m trying my best to let it just happen. Dh has told me to relax and not get so fixated on Ttc to conceive because I was prepping him for our attempts. One thing that makes me a little unsure DH decided to do a morning and then an evening BD session right around CD 10-11. I did tell him to save them for the fertile window. lol and behold the day of +opk and he’s given up on me lol. In all honestly it was our 3 yr old who wasn’t co operating that night.

I’d love to temp, and like you said takes the guessing out. I leave myself in a mental mess, thinking over and over about when I O’d and trying to follow my body for signs as I get lots of EWCM and a little after I assume or perhaps before ovulation occurs it stops.

Btw, what’s the earliest you’ve ever got any pregnant symptoms?


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[onelittlewish]

Thank you onelittlewish. I’m trying my best to let it just happen. Dh has told me to relax and not get so fixated on Ttc to conceive because I was prepping him for our attempts. One thing that makes me a little unsure DH decided to do a morning and then an evening BD session right around CD 10-11. I did tell him to save them for the fertile window. lol and behold the day of +opk and he’s given up on me lol. In all honestly it was our 3 yr old who wasn’t co operating that night.

I’d love to temp, and like you said takes the guessing out. I leave myself in a mental mess, thinking over and over about when I O’d and trying to follow my body for signs as I get lots of EWCM and a little after I assume or perhaps before ovulation occurs it stops.

Btw, what’s the earliest you’ve ever got any pregnant symptoms?


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Hmm...with my DS1 we weren't really TTC but that was the first month we tried OPK and we BD'ed twice around the positive but wasn't really expecting it to happen. I had sore breasts when I missed my period and that's when I thought maybe I should test. I probably would have spotted more symptoms if I'd paid more attention. The only thing that popped out was that I had cold like symptoms around CD10 ish, just runny nose but never developed into a full blown cold. With my DS2 I got my pos very early 8-9DPO and I don't remember that I had any symptoms! But honestly I had so many symptoms (new ones every month) that I am not reading into any of it now. And they all happened at the right time lol.

When do you plan to test this time? I think I am 2DPO today period due 25/26th.

[afya1]

I know I’ve honestly stopped (well try my best) to not symptom spot anymore. I’ve had times where I was really sure I was pregnant back in December 2021, and nothing. With my DD2 I had slight dizziness and I thought oh I should test I was only 10dpo. But with my DD1 I had almost every symptom in the book I was younger and didn’t really look into symptoms.

I am currently 5 dpo, and feel nothin lol considering my last pregnancy (the one I miscarried) I knew almost right away and I had crazy symptoms. My boobs were tingly around 5dpo.
AF is due to come 22-23rd May. I am awaiting for her arrival, I’m 95% sure she will be coming lol

I always say I will wait for AF to arrive and then test, but I think I will prob rest around 11-12DPO with my first response just so I truly prepare myself for the negative lol when I don’t get even a faint line it sort of prepares me for a BFN and I stop with symptom spotting

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[onelittlewish]

I know I’ve honestly stopped (well try my best) to not symptom spot anymore. I’ve had times where I was really sure I was pregnant back in December 2021, and nothing. With my DD2 I had slight dizziness and I thought oh I should test I was only 10dpo. But with my DD1 I had almost every symptom in the book I was younger and didn’t really look into symptoms.

I am currently 5 dpo, and feel nothin lol considering my last pregnancy (the one I miscarried) I knew almost right away and I had crazy symptoms. My boobs were tingly around 5dpo.
AF is due to come 22-23rd May. I am awaiting for her arrival, I’m 95% sure she will be coming lol

I always say I will wait for AF to arrive and then test, but I think I will prob rest around 11-12DPO with my first response just so I truly prepare myself for the negative lol when I don’t get even a faint line it sort of prepares me for a BFN and I stop with symptom spotting

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FF gave me my crosshairs today and I am 3DPO. I'll try to wait out till 11dpo to test too, if my temp does not drop by then. I have no symptom apart from sore nipples which is common for me around ovulation.

I admire you wanting a 4th! Lately I've been feeling quite defeated in parenting and overwhelmed by my two boys. At times I doubt if I can handle 3...let alone 3 boys.

[atomic sagebrush]

OLW - you are in the hard times with boys. It's about to get WAY easier.

I honestly think that for many people, Gender Disappointment has some of its roots in the fact that little boys (not all, but a lot of them) can be handfuls when they're little. My first and third boy were stereotypically can't sit still, always running off the second my back was turned, into everything all the time. Never napped, always on the go. My 4th boy was slightly better but definitely very active and prone to getting himself into a jam that I'd have to get him out of (like, once he fell off a cliff, LOL - that was my in-law's fault, but still!) My 2nd son is more mellow still, but he was never a "sit down and read a book, play quietly on his own" kind of guy, like I had expected when I dreamed of having a baby. They do grow out of this fairly early on, being quite manageable usually from 6ish right on through. Even in the teen years, we argue sometimes but not that bad.

My point is, a lot of you guys look at your boys when they're all about choo choo trains and wreaking total havoc, and you imagine that level of challenge and work going forward into the future. It absolutely underwrites your GD becuase you think "if they were girls this wouldn't be happening" and while my girl was easier than the boys, can't lie about that, she was still a baby, still a lot of work, etc. And those babies GROW UP and it will happen very soon that everything will become a lot smoother and easier to deal with.

So just keep in mind that you're at the hardest phase with your little guys now, it's all on the upswing, and pretty soon you'll be thinking "wow I really do have some free time on my hands, what should I do with myself!"

[RackEmStackEm]

Hi everyone!

Longtime lurker, first time poster. I have NO SYMPTOMS except a late period lol. That’s the only reason I decided to test and I sure was surprised [emoji102] https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20220517/0634b8cb36b5a5d32c74a87018099354.jpg


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[onelittlewish]

Thanks for those words Atomic, probably the hormones were messing with my mind too I just felt super angry and pushed to the edges all the time and feeling extremely exhausted physically and mentally. I kept yelling at them and I felt horrible at myself but I couldn't help it. Prioritising self-care now and I am feeling much better these days.

I have no clue when did I O now because when I put my FF in different detector settings I get different dates. The relevant BD is CD14 and with advanced I O'ed on CD15, with OPK I O'ed on CD16 and with FAM I O'ed on CD17. So somewhere there. No symptom too other than I am getting really creamy and wet CM today.

Huge congrats Rackemstackem! Late period is the most reliable symptom and that's a beautiful BFP! Are you swaying girl or boy?

[atomic sagebrush]

I see SO many people getting BFN in months with lots of symptoms, and then BFP in months where they're sure they can't be pregnant. Huge congrats!

[atomic sagebrush]

It happens to all of us, OLW! Truly! They still come out just fine in the end! :heart:

Good luck and FXFXFX!

[Jazmin]

HI everyone. I am back ttc.

I was off track with diet and workout for a while and started everything today again.

atomic- my weight is the same now. I did loose some Kgs during fasting but then I gained a little bit now. my next ovulation would be june 1st week if period is on time. should I skip that week and start from my next cycle?

thank you.


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[atomic sagebrush]

It's totally your call to make - I just can't know from here what the right thing to do is.

[RackEmStackEm]

Thanks for those words Atomic, probably the hormones were messing with my mind too I just felt super angry and pushed to the edges all the time and feeling extremely exhausted physically and mentally. I kept yelling at them and I felt horrible at myself but I couldn't help it. Prioritising self-care now and I am feeling much better these days.

I have no clue when did I O now because when I put my FF in different detector settings I get different dates. The relevant BD is CD14 and with advanced I O'ed on CD15, with OPK I O'ed on CD16 and with FAM I O'ed on CD17. So somewhere there. No symptom too other than I am getting really creamy and wet CM today.

Huge congrats Rackemstackem! Late period is the most reliable symptom and that's a beautiful BFP! Are you swaying girl or boy?

Thank you! Swaying girl, fingers crossed! [emoji1696]


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[treens]

Congratulating Rake!!!!

[Jazmin]

Hi everyone!

Longtime lurker, first time poster. I have NO SYMPTOMS except a late period lol. That’s the only reason I decided to test and I sure was surprised [emoji102] https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20220517/0634b8cb36b5a5d32c74a87018099354.jpg


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congratulations [emoji4]


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[Jazmin]

It's totally your call to make - I just can't know from here what the right thing to do is.

I wasn’t sure as i was in the fasting month in my previous cycle. i was worried if i try this cycle if it going to be too close to fasting. maybe ill wait..[emoji2]


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[atomic sagebrush]

I did know why you were asking, Jazmin, it's just that I can't know how well you did on eating when it was possible to eat during your fasting month and also how upset you'll be if you try and then get an opposite (keeping in mind it is just as possible to wait, and still get an opposite despite that.) When I don't know for sure I have to throw the decision back to you guys, unfortunately.

[Jazmin]

thanks atomic. I understand what you mean. I will follow my instinct and attempt next cycle.


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[afya1]

Hey ladies,

I am about 14dpo CD28 tested 3 times with FRER. All negative not even a faint line ( I tested 9dpo, 11 dpo and 13dpo) I got a positive OPK on CD 14. With my previous pregnancies I’ve got BFPs at 10 and 12DPO. AF is suppose to arrive today or tomorrow. Nor am I getting my usual AF symptoms. Ever since 10 dpo Ive felt lightheaded, fatigue. It’s a sudden feeling of hunger and the need to eat accompanied with this nausea.. I feel this even after I eat. [emoji30]
just want AF to arrive so I can make sense of everything. I’m even worried and keep thinking maybe it’s low blood sugar or blood pressure. I know this is going to be a whacky cycle. Just want it over with! Hope your all well


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[atomic sagebrush]

I've had that sometimes too, it's so frustrating. FXFXFX that AF comes soon. FX for next month!

[onelittlewish]

Afya I hope you will know soon! This is the worst…not knowing what’s happening and with lots of weird things going on.

As for me, I am about 11dpo (or 9-10dpo depending on the ff setting) but i think 11dpo is accurate because my temp has been dropping since yesterday. I think I am out this cycle too af due on wednesday. I have also been hungrier than usual but i think thats more from stress eating lol. Like i want to eat even when i am really full and i have gained weight so not good :(

Btw, atomic my temp is way lower this month. Since we started trying my coverline had always been 36.15 and my high temp is around 36.4-36.6. This month my coverline is only 36 and high temp 36.2-36.4. Does that mean anything?

[atomic sagebrush]

It might mean you have made more estrogen this month. This can be good for your chances of conception. Some people claim that lower temps = more boys, but I haven't found this to be true and in many cases when a person is not conceiving, it's because of low estrogen and they actually need more estrogen than they have in order just to get pregnant AT ALL.

Or, it can be totally unrelated and just that your room is cooler than normal or all sorts of completely random and unrelated things.

[onelittlewish]

Interesting, this is actually more like my preswaying temp with coverline just around 36c. After taking clomid my temp upped by 0.15-0.2c, even the months when I was off the pills. This is my 3rd month off my last clomid i didnt chart last month but ive had way more ewcm since last month so my guess is that clomid is out of my system now..or just a off month.

10-12dpo now still bnf not even the faintest line but temp raised back up. Fx it stays elevated although i dont feel preg at all…

[afya1]

Ladies AF arrived late this evening, I must say it was such a relief.. I needed that peace of mind. Now I know where my body was going. The faintness and lightheadedness was rather strange. I’ll keep note if it happens again. Otherwise I’m sure it was hormones.
The TWW is by far the most excruciating part of Ttc. For me it’s worse than seeing a BFN or as bad lol.

So now it’s going to be back to trying again this month. I feel like I haven’t added exercise in. Working in a school and trying to squeeze in exercise is almost impossible, not to mention I have to manage 3 kids when I get back home.

Onelittlewish, I hope your temp stays up and you manage to see a faint line!


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[atomic sagebrush]

Interesting, this is actually more like my preswaying temp with coverline just around 36c. After taking clomid my temp upped by 0.15-0.2c, even the months when I was off the pills. This is my 3rd month off my last clomid i didnt chart last month but ive had way more ewcm since last month so my guess is that clomid is out of my system now..or just a off month.

10-12dpo now still bnf not even the faintest line but temp raised back up. Fx it stays elevated although i dont feel preg at all…

Yep in many cases doctors actually advise not temping on Clomid as it can make it hard to tell when O happens. So my guess is simply that it's just being off Clomid for a bit.

FXFXFXFXFX!!!

[atomic sagebrush]

Afya, just do the doable!! we have a different ruleset for people who are working a lot - it's ok to leave out the exercise if you're putting in super long hours. As long as you're eating more you're adding muscle if you're on your feet 4+ hours.

[onelittlewish]

Yep in many cases doctors actually advise not temping on Clomid as it can make it hard to tell when O happens. So my guess is simply that it's just being off Clomid for a bit.

FXFXFXFXFX!!!

Temp dropped very slightly this morning but still high, I think I O'ed later then expected. 11-13dpo tested today BFN with frer. Is there still hope to get a positive later with FRER BFN on 11dpo? Not the faintest line I guess I'm expecting my period anytime now.

Afya sorry that this isn't your month too. I think we also had our attempts too early and this month O came much later than expected and we just couldn't keep up. Timing wasn't good. I guess I'll join you next month. With my first son I did alot of weight but with my second I was also just on my feet the whole day but I did eat alot of steak and was totally a meat lover. Somehow my food preference changed after I had my DS1. Before DS1 (actually in my entire life) I was more of a veggie/chicken lover and hated beef/red meat. But I started eating very clean and high protein (protein shakes and chicken breasts that sort of stuff) because I was doing alot of muscle building workouts. Now I totally know why I got two boys lol.

[onelittlewish]

Yep in many cases doctors actually advise not temping on Clomid as it can make it hard to tell when O happens. So my guess is simply that it's just being off Clomid for a bit.

FXFXFXFXFX!!!

Temp dropped very slightly this morning but still high, 11-13dpo tested today BFN with frer. Is there still hope to get a positive later with FRER BFN on 11dpo? Not the faintest line. Period expected anytime now.

Afya sorry that this isn't your month too. I think we also had our attempts too early and this month O came much later than expected and we just couldn't keep up. Timing wasn't good. I guess I'll join you next month. With my first son I did alot of weight but with my second I was also just on my feet the whole day but I did eat alot of steak and was totally a meat lover. Somehow my food preference changed after I had my DS1. Before DS1 (actually in my entire life) I was more of a veggie/chicken lover and hated beef/red meat. But I started eating very clean and high protein (protein shakes and chicken breasts that sort of stuff) because I was doing alot of muscle building workouts. Now I totally know why I got two boys lol.

[atomic sagebrush]

Yes it's still possible to get a positive test 11 DPO but more commonly you can ovulate later than you think. Since you're pretty sure I'd assume BFN but hopefully will get a good surprise!

[onelittlewish]

I am 13-15dpo today, most likely 13dpo like you said ovulated much later than expected according to ff (like 4 days after my first pos opk) and period due tomorrow. temp started dropping since yesterday and down to my cover line today. Counting myself out and moving on to ttc cycle #10. We will make an appointment for a semen analysis once my period arrives and if that comes back ok then we will do hsg. Does that sound about right?

[atomic sagebrush]

Yes that is exactly what I'd do. FX for June!

[treens]

Back with you ladies! Pretty sure I Ovulated yesterday on CD 14 we had an attempt on CD13. We will see what happens :)

[onelittlewish]

Back with you ladies! Pretty sure I Ovulated yesterday on CD 14 we had an attempt on CD13. We will see what happens :)

AF came right on time today. Good luck Treens!

[treens]

Thank you onelittlewish! Best of luck this cycle :))

[Girlboyohboy]

Hey ladies! Also in the 2ww here. We had an attempt the morning of the 24th and 27th. I believe I ovulated either the 25th or 26th. Really hoping it was the 25th. What are the chances for conception about 2.5 days before ovulation?

Good luck to all of you lovelies!!

[atomic sagebrush]

2.5 days before O is possible, but not sky high. KFX for you!

[onelittlewish]

1-2DPO here...any tww buddies?

How are you ladies doing Treens & Girlboyohboy?

Are you ladies trying this cycle 9jamama & Jazmin?

[Jazmin]

Hi onelittle wish, I am 2dpo today. [emoji1696]
how is everyone ? I have increased smell sense but I guess it is my usual after O thing.


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[onelittlewish]

Hi onelittle wish, I am 2dpo today. [emoji1696]
how is everyone ? I have increased smell sense but I guess it is my usual after O thing.


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Hi Jazmin, hope you are well! 6dpo here feeling absolutely nothing. Hopefully I can be patient and wait out until 10-11dpo to test! Keep me updated!

[treens]

Hows everyone doing?

I am 1 DPO, we attempted on positive opk and O day this month. Since this will be month #4 of trying and I will be 42 soon. We got the 2 attempts in. I for sure was fasting each day but have not counted my calories this month and have slipped a few times with protein for sure. My husbands family is corn tortillas and meat... So it makes it hard when we are over for dinner. I still am drinking a cup or 2 of coffee and a drink or 2 eo day. I have been slowing on my walking and exercising a bit too but am still slowly loosing a few oz here and there.

Hoping for a healthy little girl! But a healthy baby would be amazing :)
Best of luck to you all!

[Jazmin]

onelittlewish - hows it going for you? AF arrived for me yesterday so am out this cycle. [emoji20]

Tres- wishing you bfp with a baby girl.


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[onelittlewish]

onelittlewish - hows it going for you? AF arrived for me yesterday so am out this cycle. [emoji20]

Tres- wishing you bfp with a baby girl.


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Am on CD3, was devastated but went after going on a short getaway and cried for one morning now feeling much better. Havn't exercised for a week due to my cold and been eating all day long for the past 3 days so ready to restart again. Let's do this Jazmin!

Treens all the best I hope you get your BFP this month! If you are still loosing I am sure you are fine with the cal and the some protein from time to time. Keep us updated!

[Kazzzz]

Hey I'm Cara just thought I'd pop in an say hi. I'm not in my tww an haven't had any attempts yet because I'm breastfeeding my 16m old son an waiting for my period to return, he just started sleeping through the night so we're down to just 2 nursing sessions within 24hrs so hopefully it returns soons. I've been reading along for a few months its comforting to see other mums also swaying girl. Good luck to you all an i hope to join yous soon.

[Thefinalcountdown]

Hey! I’m in the same boat no cycle yet BF my 11 no old daughter! I am going to be swaying blue. Hoping your cycle returns soon!!


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[Kazzzz]

Oh cool good luck hopefully our cycles return real soon so we can get these sways underway.

[Kazzzz]

What are the girl swayers eating? Are you doing ok on the sway? Are you on the alt/pcos or le girl sway? I'm on the alt/pcos this time due to my failed sway on the le last time. What do you lady's put in your morning coffee an in between meal coffees? I'm using sweetener only. Do you guys worry about your blood sugar going up from these coffees? I think my body would see it as a light meal. I do need to worry less though so it could just be me lol

[Thefinalcountdown]

Hey! With both my girls I would have coffee (lots- I would have decaf too) with LOADS of liquid stevia and vegan creamer (coconut/ almond sometimes sweetened or not). From what I read if you stay under 50 cals your body still registers as being in a “fasted” state so I tried to stay under 50 cals of creamer.


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[atomic sagebrush]

What are the girl swayers eating? Are you doing ok on the sway? Are you on the alt/pcos or le girl sway? I'm on the alt/pcos this time due to my failed sway on the le last time. What do you lady's put in your morning coffee an in between meal coffees? I'm using sweetener only. Do you guys worry about your blood sugar going up from these coffees? I think my body would see it as a light meal. I do need to worry less though so it could just be me lol

Kazz, I would not have told you it was ok unless I had seen about 4 zillion people doing that. In fact, I did it myself, and I had actual sugar and milk in my coffee because I just wasn't willing to give it up. Virtually EVERYone on here drinks coffee with some sort of milk or cream in it both in the morning and between meals, and many people have sweetener in them. I don't know what more I have to do to get you to let this go, but it's long past time you stop hamster-wheel-braining this issue and move on because you're harming your sway so so so much more than you realize.

You need to stop focusing on theory, which is only just that - THEORY - never been tested, just a supposition, in fact just a supposition of one researcher really - and do what has worked for most people, most of the time.

[atomic sagebrush]

And let me just say, for anyone else reading this thread - NONE of you should even know what your blood sugar is doing after having sweeteners or for any other reason. I do not want anyone testing their blood sugar, it tells you nothing, and indulging an obsession over meaningless details regarding swaying is by far and away the biggest predictor of getting sway opposites. People, you WILL ruin your sways if you start testing, monitoring, keeping track of all your various bodily functions, going down rabbit hole after rabbit hole of "researching" things that I have already spent years researching and either advise or disregard for extremely well-thought-out resons, instead of just doing what actually works for people (which is what I will tell you to do in the first place, of course).

DO NOT monitor your blood sugar levels, anyone. It's not allowed unless you are an actual diabetic.

[treens]

Thank you ladies!

Kazzzz I drink it black but have flavoured coffee like snickerdoodle and Carmel crunch there are no sugars added to them but taste ok

[Cookies22]

Hi ladies, how is everyone going?

I've been doing well, apart from horrendous morning sickness (which is just starting to clear up) and now the flu!

We had our 13 week scan today. I've posted some nub pics here but nobody's posting replies lol, would love anyone's feedback

https://www.genderdreaming.com/forum/ultrasound-gender-prediction/82359-guesses-my-13-week-scan-please-would-love-your-thoughts-pics-inside.html

I hope you're all managing the TTC process ok, it can be such a merry go round of emotions.

Lots of love,

Cookies Xx

[treens]

Nice to hear you are doing ok Cookies22! I have no idea with ultrasounds but best of luck!!!

[9jamama01]

Hello ladies, hope you are doing great. Cookies nice to hear from you [emoji4]. Hello Jazmin, sorry to hear AF showed up, Onelittlewish as well, I hope you get your bfp this cycle.

I'm back in the game [emoji126]. But I've been so busy the past few weeks that I don't know how many dpo I am. I was only able to dtd twice during the fertile week.

Good luck to everyone trying to get a bfp.

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[Kazzzz]

Hi ladies, how is everyone going?

I've been doing well, apart from horrendous morning sickness (which is just starting to clear up) and now the flu!

We had our 13 week scan today. I've posted some nub pics here but nobody's posting replies lol, would love anyone's feedback

https://www.genderdreaming.com/forum/ultrasound-gender-prediction/82359-guesses-my-13-week-scan-please-would-love-your-thoughts-pics-inside.html

I hope you're all managing the TTC process ok, it can be such a merry go round of emotions.

Lots of love,

Cookies Xx

Looks like a txt book girl nub!! Congrats 👸

[Kazzzz]

Hey! With both my girls I would have coffee (lots- I would have decaf too) with LOADS of liquid stevia and vegan creamer (coconut/ almond sometimes sweetened or not). From what I read if you stay under 50 cals your body still registers as being in a “fasted” state so I tried to stay under 50 cals of creamer.


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Wow this was so helpful to read thank you.
What is creamer? Is it just coconut/almond milk? I'll start having almond/cows milk in my morning coffee, i normally only have it in my coffees with meals. How many caffeine an decaf coffees would you have each day? Thats so interesting i was telling atomic how my friend has 2 girls no boys an different dads the only common things she did with both which are 7 years apart is that she ate like a sparrow which she always has done and with 1 she drank tons of caffeinated coffee and the other she only drank decaf but tons of it. I think these two things are the top 2 girl swaying things. She has low body fat because she's a bad eater she'll eat breakfast late an only light then have coffee for lunch then eat 2 more small meals for the day or 1 big take away dinner and she never eats alot often i like i do an she doesn't snack she probably has 6 coffees a day she has coffee as her snacks.

[Kazzzz]

Treens that sounds yummy we don't have those here in NZ well not that I've seen anywhere. I mite need to look online. I just have a splash of almond milk or cows milk now an i don't count it in for the day.

[Kazzzz]

Thanks atomic I've been having a splash of cows milk or almond milk in every coffee. I've given up thinking about milk in coffees an stopped doing sweeteners only because i just don't like them. I'm just trying to tell myself not to over think anything. Heaps of self talk an distracting myself lol. I'll get there, i am getting there. I have stopped counting things like a splash of milk or a tbsp of flour or even small cal things. I've stopped measuring an weighing things an I'm just estimating or using a tbsp or cup etc as you normally would. I'm trying to not care.

[Thefinalcountdown]

Wow this was so helpful to read thank you.
What is creamer? Is it just coconut/almond milk? I'll start having almond/cows milk in my morning coffee, i normally only have it in my coffees with meals. How many caffeine an decaf coffees would you have each day? Thats so interesting i was telling atomic how my friend has 2 girls no boys an different dads the only common things she did with both which are 7 years apart is that she ate like a sparrow which she always has done and with 1 she drank tons of caffeinated coffee and the other she only drank decaf but tons of it. I think these two things are the top 2 girl swaying things. She has low body fat because she's a bad eater she'll eat breakfast late an only light then have coffee for lunch then eat 2 more small meals for the day or 1 big take away dinner and she never eats alot often i like i do an she doesn't snack she probably has 6 coffees a day she has coffee as her snacks.

Yes that sounds like she was doing pink friendly things! I would drink probably 1/4 c regular grinds and 1/4c decaf grinds in a whole pot then have half in the morning and half for “lunch” which would be a bunch of greens powders and supplements. I’d add tons of stevia and yes either almond milk or coconut milk but here they have vegan creamers that are non dairy and I’d use that. Then one big meal at the end of the day mostly salad/ veggies and carbs but not much protein. With my boy I was eating a lot of nuts/ avocado/ beans so I’m trying to duplicate some of that for my blue sway! And snacking seems to be a big blue trend. I’d never ever snack w my girls.


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[Kazzzz]

Thanks Thefinalcountdown
What is one pot full? How many cups? We don't do pots of coffee lol we do do pots of tea here not sure if thats the same size it's about 6 cups (48 us ounces)

[atomic sagebrush]

Thanks atomic I've been having a splash of cows milk or almond milk in every coffee. I've given up thinking about milk in coffees an stopped doing sweeteners only because i just don't like them. I'm just trying to tell myself not to over think anything. Heaps of self talk an distracting myself lol. I'll get there, i am getting there. I have stopped counting things like a splash of milk or a tbsp of flour or even small cal things. I've stopped measuring an weighing things an I'm just estimating or using a tbsp or cup etc as you normally would. I'm trying to not care.

Giving up milk in coffee is overthinking, though. You can have some milk in the coffee. I personally wouldn't even count it unless you're having a significant amount.

[atomic sagebrush]

Thanks Thefinalcountdown
What is one pot full? How many cups? We don't do pots of coffee lol we do do pots of tea here not sure if thats the same size it's about 6 cups (48 us ounces)

An American size pot can run anywhere from 6-10 cups. It varies depending on what size coffeemaker it is.

[Kazzzz]

Giving up milk in coffee is overthinking, though. You can have some milk in the coffee. I personally wouldn't even count it unless you're having a significant amount.

I ment I'm giving up on thinking about that splash of milk in my coffees and just having it so I'm actually having a little milk in every coffee now an telling myself its only a splash of milk not a meal lol. I'm also telling myself coffee is a great for pink swaying. I'm trying to enjoy the sway an let go of lots of different things.

Is it advised for an ocd pink swayer to not count the little things? It helps me be less ocd by not counting the little things i relax so much more. Also since dropping the fear of milk in my coffees I'm now having more coffees both caffeinated an non coffeinated so from only 2 cups a day to now about 5 which i think will help my sway since with my boys an basically my whole life I've only drank 1 cup a day.

I'm using decaf as a tool its a nice free hot drink that won't keep me up at night if i have it after dinner.

I'm trying to focus on whats GOOD for a girl sway instead of focusing on what's BAD for a girl sway or what sways BOY if you know what i mean. I'm trying to focus on the positive. It's working great for my ocd.

[Kazzzz]

I wonder if most also have a little sweetner in these coffees, i brought some Stevia today just for the times that i need a little sweetness so i have it if needed since i don't trust the safety of artificial sweeteners

[atomic sagebrush]

:agree: ok great that's fantastic.

I advise ALL swayers not to worry about little things. It simply cannot come down to stuff like this, it makes absolutely no sense that it does, and time and again I see the people who are the most wound up about small details getting opposites.

As for the sweeteners, some have them, some don't. People have varying tastes. Some people don't even like sweets at all, or sweetened drinks, and others do.

[treens]

This one is so yummy!

https://www.amazon.ca/ECS-Coffee-Coconut-Caramel-Chocolate/dp/B00RK5OR5M?pd_rd_w=HcBaW&content-id=amzn1.sym.e94efc31-3cca-4099-a1f7-3d48f0888545&pf_rd_p=e94efc31-3cca-4099-a1f7-3d48f0888545&pf_rd_r=N7JAYYSE97AEWF0K8V3G&pd_rd_wg=0XAhh&pd_rd_r=8e27d14d-3a29-48e7-8375-d0149ad4e0ce&pd_rd_i=B00RK5OR5M&psc=1&ref_=pd_bap_d_rp_1_t

[Kazzzz]

This one is so yummy!

https://www.amazon.ca/ECS-Coffee-Coconut-Caramel-Chocolate/dp/B00RK5OR5M?pd_rd_w=HcBaW&content-id=amzn1.sym.e94efc31-3cca-4099-a1f7-3d48f0888545&pf_rd_p=e94efc31-3cca-4099-a1f7-3d48f0888545&pf_rd_r=N7JAYYSE97AEWF0K8V3G&pd_rd_wg=0XAhh&pd_rd_r=8e27d14d-3a29-48e7-8375-d0149ad4e0ce&pd_rd_i=B00RK5OR5M&psc=1&ref_=pd_bap_d_rp_1_t

Yummmy is it sweet at all? I'm going to see if i can find similar here in nz since things are taking weeks/months to be delivered anywhere atm

[Kazzzz]

:agree: ok great that's fantastic.

I advise ALL swayers not to worry about little things. It simply cannot come down to stuff like this, it makes absolutely no sense that it does, and time and again I see the people who are the most wound up about small details getting opposites.

As for the sweeteners, some have them, some don't. People have varying tastes. Some people don't even like sweets at all, or sweetened drinks, and others do.

Thanks for this, i don't count the small cals here an there even 1 pro or fat here an there once twice a day. I mean we're not counting the spash of milk in coffees an if its cows milk its probably 1 pro 1 fat 15cals. My spash of milk is probably 2 - 3 tbsps probably still to much but for me any less an i wouldn't like it my coffees already look like dish water lol but that's ok better then black coffee

[treens]

it does kind of im not sure if it is jus the smell that helps it smells so good!

[Kazzzz]

I got a jar of good coffee today with natural caramel flavor and its nicer adds a flavour note

[Kazzzz]

Just got to come clean to someone lol i just had a blow out 8 cookies 4 oreos an 4 homemade ones basic cookies flavoured with cocoa they were only as big as oreos so not hige or anything. Gosh i feel bad now i couldn't help myself lately my want to quit has been getting stronger i miss all my junk food an my period still isn't back so i just think gosh it could be 6 months before it comes back. I've been dieting for more then 5 months now

[Kazzzz]

Ok so yes it was white flour an white sugar cookies big no no but since it was right before i ate dinner its was with a meal and i added it all up an it was only a little over in fat so not terribly bad. Now to forget about it and carry on, I'm really tough on myself so this is good practice of letting go and carrying on i didn't destroy my sway, I'm doing good, i deserved that treat/cheat and i can do this. We all can do this.
Just ideally not cheating with sugar on the pcos le lol i think sugar is my big boy swayer i even thought that waa the case with my last failed sway doing le eating sweets etc. I guess thats why I'm more harder on myself this time. I hope you're all doing well.

[Thefinalcountdown]

Hey! In the same boat but my girl is only 11 months- no period. It’s good because the longer on the sway the better! Chin up! When you relax and get “over it” may just be when you get preggo!!


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[Kazzzz]

Hey! In the same boat but my girl is only 11 months- no period. It’s good because the longer on the sway the better! Chin up! When you relax and get “over it” may just be when you get preggo!!


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Yeah i agree we're not trying yet not till i get my period back because i plan to use clomid in my sway but i just don't know how long I'll be waiting some mums don't get their periods back till they have completely stopped breastfeeding even then it can take a couple weeks months after you stop

[atomic sagebrush]

Just got to come clean to someone lol i just had a blow out 8 cookies 4 oreos an 4 homemade ones basic cookies flavoured with cocoa they were only as big as oreos so not hige or anything. Gosh i feel bad now i couldn't help myself lately my want to quit has been getting stronger i miss all my junk food an my period still isn't back so i just think gosh it could be 6 months before it comes back. I've been dieting for more then 5 months now

This is why cheats are not only allowed, they're mandatory. Sometimes you just need one. Just move on from here, its not a big deal.

[Kazzzz]

Ok cool thanks i needed to hear that. I've been feeling like some home baking for a few weeks now so i guess it came to a head. I'll just carry on as you say.

[Kazzzz]

Thank you ladies!

Kazzzz I drink it black but have flavoured coffee like snickerdoodle and Carmel crunch there are no sugars added to them but taste ok

How many coffees each day do you have and are they all black?

[Kazzzz]

Wow just got my darkest opk since i conceived more then 2yrs ago so i took a Clearblue and got a flashing smiley getting closer.

[dtwiddy13]

Ok cool thanks i needed to hear that. I've been feeling like some home baking for a few weeks now so i guess it came to a head. I'll just carry on as you say.

I’ve heard a metaphor that really resonates with me. If you forget to brush your teeth one day, you don’t stop brushing your teeth altogether and berate yourself as being such a failure for not brushing your teeth. You just brush them and get right back on track. If you cheat on the diet or don’t exercise, don’t let it make you fall off the wagon; just get back to it afterwards.


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[Kazzzz]

Thanks that helps i have moved past it now thank goodness i think it just takes a few days back on track to feel confident again. Thank you

[atomic sagebrush]

Wow just got my darkest opk since i conceived more then 2yrs ago so i took a Clearblue and got a flashing smiley getting closer.

any update??? May be getting close!!!

[Kazzzz]

Well I've been testing once a day for like a month now lol since that one the other day I've had a few days of a bit darker ones nothing super close yet but definitely increasing a bit. I've had ewcm and cramps for like a week now its like my body is trying to ovulate. My baby has been waking during the night again just once over the last 4 nights so maybe that's delaying ovulation with the increase in breastfeeding. I'll test again today last night was the darkest and we bd last night anyway so won't be going again for at least a few nights I'll stick to the e4d just to be safe but once things get going I'll do the one attempt for a few months. It's more tricky not knowing were you are in your cycle or if your even in a cycle while breastfeeding. E4d is bd skip 2 nights then bd right? I won't bd e4d I'll just avoid bd over the next few nights just incase.

[atomic sagebrush]

It's possible to have a couple "practice cycles" where your body gears up to O and doesn't. This happened to me once when breastfeeding, I would have sworn I was ovulating but then my period never came, and I wasn't pregnant. My doctor told me he saw that fairly often with breastfeeding. So have attempt and keep your fingers crossed this is the real deal.

When to have the e4d attempts is to some extent at your discretion. "e4d" just means to have regular unprotected sex just far enough apart to conceive with, but not so close that it starts being more than one attempt. So if you're just getting started with TTC, you might want to have your attempts in the "Monday/Friday" or "96 hour" pattern. I don't mean those days per se, or those specific number of hours, but that's how you count the days. That would be THREE days between attempts. It's lower odds of conception but better chances for pink, so when just getting started, it's a good option since you're not desperate to conceive right away.

Most of the people who use the e4d in the 72 hour pattern/Monday Thursday (that you're thinking of as 2 days between attempts) have been trying for a while. So they're ok with possibly lowering chances of pink to boost odds of conception.

So since you're only just getting rolling with your attempts, it makes some sense to me for you to start off with the 96 hour e4d and then see what happens. We can always revisit this later!

[treens]

I usually have 1 or 2

[treens]

I am back again :) 1 ovulated yesterday I believe we attempted yesterday and the day before and may do another tonight.

We would just over all love a healthy baby, a girl would be great but a boy would be just as loved :)) I turn 42 next week and my little boy is now 11 months.

How is everyone else doing?

[Kazzzz]

Hey treens
I'm doing ok trying not to be to disheartened from everything an trying to NOT give up completely. I've past my practice or real ovulation now i believe and will take a pregnancy test on "8dpo" since i have heaps of cheapies. I kind of hope to get my period in 2wks so i can just know whats going on and also start clomid.

We'll be testing around the same time frame. Good luck i hope you get your BFP.

How does it actually work, say i had a fake ovulation then can i have a real ovulation days later or will it be in around 4wks time? Like a normal cycle. New to all this no postpartum period stuff.

[Kazzzz]

Also my opks were getting darker then the darkest one was on Saturday so we dtd that night since then over the last 3 days all my opks are extremely light I've done 3 a day lol no more ewcm an my sex drive has been completely gone. The night we dtd was my last high libido, ewcm, cramps an soft cervix day plus last day of any type of decent line on my opk tests. Maybe i did catch the first egg. Time will tell guess.

[treens]

Kazzzz- It sounds like you did it at the best time to me. You can only do so much then just wait :) Best of luck to you. Try not to worry or think too hard about it. When the time is right the time will be right and you will get your perfect baby. Best of luck to you!!!

[Kazzzz]

Thanks treens I'm trying to just live my life an forget about swaying while still swaying lol i know everything i need to know now so just gotta go with the flow.

I'm not taking any folic acid how much should i be taking? I'm also breastfeeding.

[Kazzzz]

6dpo i think lol an just had some pink cm like normal white creamy cm tmi but it was pink in colour so maybe my period is going to start any day now. No cramps yet but woke up feeling post ovulation, its normal for me to wake up with a headache an sore shoulders, and neck for 1 or 2 days about half way between ovulation an period. Such a weird thing lol but before i had my last baby it happened every month so i do think i ovulated or maybe I'm just having some random high progesterone or something i aways put it down to progesterone anyway not really sure what causes it. I also waje up feeling hung over which I'm not. Anyone else get this around 6-8dpo

[Kazzzz]

9days since dtd and bfn of frer this am still early i guess but i have a feeling i didn't ovulate which is ok because I'll wait till i get af an use clomid.

[atomic sagebrush]

Hey treens
I'm doing ok trying not to be to disheartened from everything an trying to NOT give up completely. I've past my practice or real ovulation now i believe and will take a pregnancy test on "8dpo" since i have heaps of cheapies. I kind of hope to get my period in 2wks so i can just know whats going on and also start clomid.

We'll be testing around the same time frame. Good luck i hope you get your BFP.

How does it actually work, say i had a fake ovulation then can i have a real ovulation days later or will it be in around 4wks time? Like a normal cycle. New to all this no postpartum period stuff.

There's no rhyme or reason to it. Your body just sort of gears up as if it's going to ovulate, but doesn't. Then your symptoms will go away. You haven't ovulated so you're still in the follicular phase, then in a few days or weeks or months you'll gear up to ovulate again, and actually do it that time, OR you might have more practice cycles where you don't ovulate. No way to predict as it's different for everyone.

[atomic sagebrush]

Also my opks were getting darker then the darkest one was on Saturday so we dtd that night since then over the last 3 days all my opks are extremely light I've done 3 a day lol no more ewcm an my sex drive has been completely gone. The night we dtd was my last high libido, ewcm, cramps an soft cervix day plus last day of any type of decent line on my opk tests. Maybe i did catch the first egg. Time will tell guess.

You can get a false positive in a practice cycle because the hormones are there, it's just that your body doesn't ovulate. Then the hormones/symptoms will diminish, the test goes to negative, and then it's just that your period doesn't arrive.

[atomic sagebrush]

Thanks treens I'm trying to just live my life an forget about swaying while still swaying lol i know everything i need to know now so just gotta go with the flow.

I'm not taking any folic acid how much should i be taking? I'm also breastfeeding.

You should be taking at minimum 400 mcg daily for a safe and healthy pregnancy. When swaying, most of us take 1200-1600 mcg since we're eating more restrictive diets. But you do need to be taking at least 400 till your cycle returns.

[atomic sagebrush]

6dpo i think lol an just had some pink cm like normal white creamy cm tmi but it was pink in colour so maybe my period is going to start any day now. No cramps yet but woke up feeling post ovulation, its normal for me to wake up with a headache an sore shoulders, and neck for 1 or 2 days about half way between ovulation an period. Such a weird thing lol but before i had my last baby it happened every month so i do think i ovulated or maybe I'm just having some random high progesterone or something i aways put it down to progesterone anyway not really sure what causes it. I also waje up feeling hung over which I'm not. Anyone else get this around 6-8dpo

I definitely feel off my game in the luteal phase, not sure I can pin it down that specifically but about 50% of the months that pass, I feel unpleasant, borderline sick and miserable. Other months I feel fine, but I do know what you're talking about. I also get that shoulder/neck/headache only when I am about to get my period and often for the first day of my period, and I've read others having that too.

Just keep in mind that your hormones are "doing stuff" (as in rising/falling estrogen levels) even if you didn't actually ovulate, so sometimes it can mimic even if you didn't O.

9 DPO is early to test and keep in mind even if this is O we don't know where in the cycle you'd be.

[Kazzzz]

Omg i just got a smiley on the Clearblue ovulation test the ones that are either a blank cycle or a smiley face no in between. I've been using them for the last 2 days because i ran out of cheapies. My cp is (show) i have mixed cm but definitely some globs of ewcm in there sorry tmi. No cramps which has me thinking its another faky lol frer was negative again this am.

I'm trying to decide do we have our 1 attempt or wait! Because i had heaps of cheats yesterday which is strange because the last time i had a big cheat day i got a close pos the next day and now day after another cheat day and i've got a pos maybe the extra sugar/fat/cals helps some of us ovulate makes sence since im heavily dieting for me personally it's heavily dieting. I don't know if i should wait so i can do our attempt with clomid an without the cheats the day before lol or just go for it an see what happens. If something helped me ovulate I'd say it was the sugar since i was craving it both of those cheat days or maybe fat, But i don't know. Interesting though.

Edit: I'm getting major cramps now so we'll see if it ends up being a real ovulation in a few weeks.

[atomic sagebrush]

I would go ahead and have attempt, in case there are benefits from catching the first egg, but I can understand wanting to wait for the Clomid, too.

Just to clarify, that is not how ovulation works. A cheat one day cannot make you ovulate. The egg has to go through an entire period of development and that does not happen in one day. Most likely, you had less willpower since you were gearing up to O and cheated for that reason.

[Kazzzz]

I would go ahead and have attempt, in case there are benefits from catching the first egg, but I can understand wanting to wait for the Clomid, too.

Just to clarify, that is not how ovulation works. A cheat one day cannot make you ovulate. The egg has to go through an entire period of development and that does not happen in one day. Most likely, you had less willpower since you were gearing up to O and cheated for that reason.

Oh of course that totally makes sence. I'm worried about my ocd though and i was going to start my sertraline medication today to help with ocd an anxiety an do attempt in 4 weeks or when ever i ovulate next. Plus have clomid onboard an myo-inositol? I guess it comes down to what sways the most?

4 weeks of ocd medication plus clomid and myo-inositol or
First ovulation postpartum?
If i wait can i start using a little myo-inositol now? 1/4 tsp once daily?

Edit plus i can start some folic acid

[atomic sagebrush]

I just can't say what sways more. There's just no way for me to know that and it very possibly varies by person anyway, in any given month.

Yes, you can start the myoinositol now, but just be very careful since you were already eating fairly restrictively - it can contribute to messing up cycles, which would not be what we want since we're just getting it back again.

[Kazzzz]

Ok thanks i didn't have an attempt so hopefully still in for a good chance at having a girl.
A friend of mine told me about a Facebook page that does swaying and the lady's on there believe diet doesn't sway at all, they mentioned your website and others as being old false info and that there is no science to back it up. They claim vaginal ph and girl/boy phases each month have lots of scientific evidence to back it up. I do 100% believe diet sways which bits where exactly i don't know but i believe in diet. Why do you think these woman are saying this? They claim 80% success an some say le failed them. They do O+12 rephresh sylk abstain cal/mag etc all that old stuff aswel as these (phases) the one thing you and them agree on is 1 attempt. I wonder if that's actually the 1 thing that even alone would get 80% success? What are your thoughts? I'm waiting for them to get back to me on what they see wrong with your sway techniques. 1 thing they did mention was skipping breakfast will only make your blood sugar spike and hold in to your first meal which makes no sense to me. Just wanted your opinion as this is a new group an is very popular i hope lots of woman don't fail because of that group but their sways aren't posted or what ever you know.

[Kazzzz]

Omg!!!! I just saw a post on that fb group from a mum who followed all their advice an it failed the moderator said her sway wasn't perfect because get this she didn't use sylk during her attempt for f sake. That poor mum and her sway wasn't counted because it "wasn't perfect"

[atomic sagebrush]

Ok thanks i didn't have an attempt so hopefully still in for a good chance at having a girl.
A friend of mine told me about a Facebook page that does swaying and the lady's on there believe diet doesn't sway at all, they mentioned your website and others as being old false info and that there is no science to back it up. They claim vaginal ph and girl/boy phases each month have lots of scientific evidence to back it up. I do 100% believe diet sways which bits where exactly i don't know but i believe in diet. Why do you think these woman are saying this? They claim 80% success an some say le failed them. They do O+12 rephresh sylk abstain cal/mag etc all that old stuff aswel as these (phases) the one thing you and them agree on is 1 attempt. I wonder if that's actually the 1 thing that even alone would get 80% success? What are your thoughts? I'm waiting for them to get back to me on what they see wrong with your sway techniques. 1 thing they did mention was skipping breakfast will only make your blood sugar spike and hold in to your first meal which makes no sense to me. Just wanted your opinion as this is a new group an is very popular i hope lots of woman don't fail because of that group but their sways aren't posted or what ever you know.

Actually, they're the ones using old outdated info from the 1930's-1970's that has never worked at all, that the majority of people on this site have already gotten opposites with, and that has completely debunked information as its basis. Not only was this site the one that discovered one attempt to start with (it was all but certainly "borrowed" from us by the Babydust lady, and I have the timeline to prove that).

No, one attempt alone does not sway "80%". That isn't true and we know it, because when people began to do ONLY one attempt (as in they're in a hurry to sway, so don't do diet and exercise) it caused our success rates with one attempt to drop. The best sways have diet, exercise, one attempt, and Clomid or Femara if you can get them. NOTHING gets that high of results on its own.

I've gone into the lack of science to these old school claims at length here:

minerals: https://www.genderdreaming.com/forum/ttc-a-girl-best-practices/62533-le-diet-faq-2-mineral-madness-edition.html

pH: https://www.genderdreaming.com/forum/gender-swaying-general-discussion/11684-ph-pickle.html

timing in general: https://www.genderdreaming.com/forum/gender-swaying-general-discussion/7691-trouble-timing.html

O+12: https://genderdreaming.com/forum/trying-to-conceive-a-girl/35539-no-12-a.html

Ions, moon phases, and all the rest of that gibberish: https://www.genderdreaming.com/forum/gender-swaying-general-discussion/63173-ion-insanity.html?highlight=ion+insanity

In our results, we found that the jellies simply didn't work. The same number of people got boys and girls with and without them. We had a statistician calculate the inverses and they also found that not only jellies, but douches did not work and the same number of people got boys and girls with and without them. Cal-mag was proven in the Oxford study (the only study not done by someone selling a mineral diet for gender swaying), along with ALL nutrients, to sway blue, not pink.

As for the blood sugar spiking in the morning, this is actually true, because the body burns off stores to raise blood sugar in the morning so you can get up and get active WITHOUT having to eat first thing. But what these people choose not to understand is that it isn't measurable blood sugar that matters, but the act of your body burning off those stores that actually sways. your body doesn't LIKE having super low blood sugar, it immediately burns off stores of fat to raise blood sugar, and that's what sways, not some mystical low blood sugar level. We say "low blood sugar" simply as a short description of the actual process where your blood sugar drops and then your body burns off stores of fat to raise it. So it's entirely irrelevant if your blood sugar rises in the morning, that's expected. The point is that you force your body to burn off the stores rather than giving it a free source of carbs to do that with.

I can't take on the world or change it singlehandedly. The Internet is a big place and there are lots of people out there promoting all sorts of different ideas. I honestly don't care, even though I feel bad for the people who are told misinformation. I had to let all that go a long time ago because I am one person with two jobs and five children. There's no shortage of people who want to badmouth me online, but what are ya gonna do?? I can control this site and the people I am able to help, and everyone else simply has to go their own way.

[atomic sagebrush]

Omg!!!! I just saw a post on that fb group from a mum who followed all their advice an it failed the moderator said her sway wasn't perfect because get this she didn't use sylk during her attempt for f sake. That poor mum and her sway wasn't counted because it "wasn't perfect"

Yep. That's what all these sites do. They cherry pick their data to make their methods look effective, cutting out people who couldn't get pregnant doing all this crazy stuff, and also encouraging lying in sway results. The side effect of this is dishonest statistics. I have been told, by several people who actually did this, that they lied in their results to be included, that they actually added attempts, or dropped douching, etc etc because they didn't want to be criticized and embarrassed if they had an opposite. These types of results are simply not worth anything, if both the people collecting the results, and those reporting them, are not being forthright about that.

Honestly, I could do that too, as there are a LOT of people who didn't do things my way, even after I spent a long time begging and pleading with them to do that. I could make our results look a lot higher were I to do that. But I decided going into this, that I wanted people to have a REALISTIC expectation of what swaying could give, for a real person, in the real world, with a reasonable time to conception. So I include everyone in our results, always have, always will, and if our results appear lower than people who are lying, it really doesn't bother me in the slightest because I have seen too many people made too miserable by pursuing unattainable sways (in some cases ending up divorced and/or with no baby at all) to ever be on board with that.

[Kazzzz]

A real response that i KNEW i would get from you your tough sometimes and I'm a little sensitive lol but your absolutely right and i know i can trust you because you like me leave no stone unturned. Before i read your reply I told another lady from your site who I'm Facebook friends with that i trust you and your research and i need to leave all the thinking and research up to you. Also one of the woman on that other fb page whos been an admin for years had a failed sway after doing a "perfect" sway and that has alot of people talking her ph was like a 4 and everything was ment to 100% sway girl and she got another boy she would probably benefit from the pcos after having 5 boys. I can't believe they say diet doesn't sway and has been disproven by science its laughable.

[Kazzzz]

I do have a few questions though so why do cal/mag have like 70% success in the stats? I've thought maybe because mag helps with ir and then the cal does nothing? Also why dp men with low sperm count sway girl? This has always puzzled me

[atomic sagebrush]

A real response that i KNEW i would get from you your tough sometimes and I'm a little sensitive lol but your absolutely right and i know i can trust you because you like me leave no stone unturned. Before i read your reply I told another lady from your site who I'm Facebook friends with that i trust you and your research and i need to leave all the thinking and research up to you. Also one of the woman on that other fb page whos been an admin for years had a failed sway after doing a "perfect" sway and that has alot of people talking her ph was like a 4 and everything was ment to 100% sway girl and she got another boy she would probably benefit from the pcos after having 5 boys. I can't believe they say diet doesn't sway and has been disproven by science its laughable.

Yep, that's what I saw time and again on InGender. People who were swaying for literal years, doing so much, even doing things like putting magnets into their underwear and having their husbands wear 2 jock straps for months, who got boys anyway. Ladies who gained 80 lbs and ended up with high blood pressure from sodium and rotten teeth from no calcium intake for years, ending up with girls anyway. And then people who simply walked away from swaying totally, either after having wasted months on it and not conceiving, or because their husbands wouldn't agree, or because they had other stuff going on and they just couldn't do all those things. So many people could have been helped if only they'd been given the option of a reasonable approach to swaying instead of a bat-kaka insane one.

The super strict, absolutely insane swaying stuff just doesn't work for most people and by cherry picking their data, they eliminate all the people who couldn't get pregnant doing all that stuff from their results. It's just not a good way to help people with swaying, since you turn away the majority of people who need help and also wildly skew the results to make them look more effective, since they refuse to include anyone who couldn't conceive with everything (which is MOST PEOPLE.)

[atomic sagebrush]

I do have a few questions though so why do cal/mag have like 70% success in the stats? I've thought maybe because mag helps with ir and then the cal does nothing? Also why dp men with low sperm count sway girl? This has always puzzled me

I actually have a long explanation of some of the limitations of our stats, and the cal-mag thing in depth here: https://www.genderdreaming.com/forum/gender-swaying-general-discussion/43555-thoughts-stats.html

Note - much of my criticism of the stats is truer than ever as the person who was adding them up has moved on from the site, and the past couple years - years in which our results were stellar - has not been included in these numbers. Frankly, I don't care, because I think you guys put way too much stock into these completely unscientific numbers anyway and we have a big enough body of data to show that swaying is working. But it does make our results in our stats compilation lower than they actually are. Again, I'm ok with that as I'd rather you guys go into swaying with your eyes wide open, expecting lower results and having better success, vs. a fake, artificially inflated number that sets people up for heartbreak.

Just the short version for those who don't read links, first of all, our overall success rate is 70%, so things that don't work piggyback on those results, without surpassing them (things that really work get higher than the overall success of the site, or have in the past) Even things like magic spells and putting a spoon under the bed are in the 62-66% range, and they can't possibly do anything! Secondly, because cal-mag is something everyone has heard of, and it doesn't inhibit odds of conception, people continue taking it even if they don't conceive, so they are often less fertile than those who get pregnant more quickly, and have often had longer on diet than the average swayer. This can skew the results to make things look more successful than they really are, as opposed to things that are dropped very quickly (so the only people who conceive with them are highly fertile and may not have been on diet as long.) This is kind of hard to explain. But think of it this way - most people try abstain or daily release ONLY the first couple months. Some people immediately get pregnant with them, but most don't, and most drop them. This means that only the people who could get pregnant very fast are in the statistics for those things (and they may have been more fertile, or on diet less time, than those who dropped them) and this can alter the statistics since now we have two different groups of people doing different things in our results. With cal-mag, because they don't inhibit odds of conception, this means that people take them a long time, so even people who are less fertile/possibly more pink friendly, and are on diet longer, are equally represented in the stats, so it might make cal-mag look more pink friendly than it truly is. We just don't know and our statistics are incapable of revealing where the truth lies.

The past three years on this site (2019-2021), we've had the best results we ever had. The fewest people are taking cal-mag, and the most people are doing the alternate diet. So it simply cannot be that cal-mag is swaying pink, and it simply can't be that the alternate diet isn't working, it just does not make any sense given the good results.

Please don't overthink the insulin resistance any more. Just do what works for most people most of the time because the chasing down rabbitholes is something you are very prone to and something that is very bad for your sway.

We had statistics one of our members took from InGender (she actually went through the IG database and added up individually the results for cal-mag). Remember on IG, at least during that time, many people actually didn't do diet at all, simply "cut back on sodium" and take cal-mag - so it was a good test of what cal-mag supps were actually doing in the real world. The results she found proved that the cal-mag did absolutely nothing, and in fact was blue friendly. The Oxford study found the same thing - the women who ate the most calcium and magnesium rich foods had the most boys. Considering so many of us on here (myself included) got boys with the cal-mag, it's very easy for us to give up, but I certainly allow anyone who wants to take them, to take them if they want to, even tho I don't believe in them at all, getting all four of my boys with my hsuband and I having tons of dairy, my 3rd and 4th boy taking cal-mag-D supps, and then giving it all up to get my girl. But your sway your way, if you guys want to use them, just skip the Vit. D.

Re the low sperm count, we simply don't know. But not only has that been shown in studies (men in a wide variety of situations with lower sperm count have more daughters, there are quite a lot of studies to this effect), it's been true in our observations as well, with what I call an important minority. We have a significant chunk of my blue swayers (people who want boys, and have girls already) who have male-factor infertility of some sort. Their husbands either have very low sperm count, poor sperm health, or trouble having sex very often in comparison to the couples that have all boys. Plus, everything that has been said to sway pink, does cut down on sperm health or sperm count. So even though I can only speculate as to why, it's one of the more likely elements of swaying since there's just so much pointing this way.