Girl sway again this time doing alternate diet plus more

[Kazzzz]

Hey I'm 33 i have 3 boys my last was a sway fail but i was doing le with no exercise and this time I'm doing the alternate/pcos and hr exercise 6 days a week. I think I'll have a better chance this time around. Thank you for taking this journey with me again Atomic you are priceless!!

[Kazzzz]

I have a question. Are all foods ok aslong as fat protein an cals are in check? So there are no foods that should be looked sideways at? Lol not even like a slightly iffy like we should only have once-twice a wk because we're not sure maybe it sways blue? I have a feeling that high nutrition like heaps of fruit, veg, beans, nuts, seeds fish doesn't actually sway blue but what sways more is a lot of everything lol like eating alot an often an anything you want as much as you want listening to your random cravings sways blue. I have always eaten what ever i wanted and as much as I've wanted a big range of different foods etc i eat the same as my partner i think that could be quite common with boy mums. My sister is pregnant an she just found out its a boy and she eats just like me go figure. I'll start doing a daily meal blog here so people can see what I'm eating for idea or help give me tips along the way.

[atomic sagebrush]

LADIES - KEEP IN MIND THIS REPLY WAS MEANT FOR A PERSON ON THE ALTERNATE LE DIET (PCOS, THOSE WITH INSULIN RESISTANCE, MORE THAN 30-50 LBS TO SPARE, THOSE WHO ARE OLDER AND/OR HAVE POOR EGG QUALITY) - MOST PEOPLE WHO ARE ON THE EVERYDAY STANDARD LE DIET CAN HAVE SUGAR AND SKIM/PART SKIM DAIRY.

Avoid these small number of things: highly fortified foods like power bars, meal replacer shakes, breakfast cereals. Use only folic acid or folate, don't take a multivitamin or prenatal till after BFP. Avoid sweets and sugary treats, and white refined grains (except in terms of needing to have a cheat for sanity's sake). Avoid skim and part skim dairy. Everything else is fine within limits.

Fruit and high carb veg, you count calories only, they're free for protein and fat. Low carb veg are free and unlimited, have as much as you want, no need to count them.

[atomic sagebrush]

Oh and I like people to keep fish to 2x a week simply because all women who are TTC should keep fish to 2x a week.

[atomic sagebrush]

So above, you mention "high nutrient foods" like beans, nuts, fruit and veg, etc but the truth is you'd have to eat a mountain of most of those foods before you'd get up to the nutrition (because remember, beyond vitamins and minerals, calories, fat, and protein are also nutrients) in a Big Mac, fries, and a chocolate shake. You would probably explode before you could eat enough nuts (and nuts are among the most nutrient dense) to equal the amount of protein in a burger and fries...let alone something like broccoli, where you really would never get anywhere near as many calories unless you ate a whole truckload. Plus, it's about PORTIONS. People often come to me and say "I don't understand why I have all boys, I eat such terrible, low nutrient foods! Why, I often eat a whole package of Oreos at a sitting!" But a package of Oreos has a LOT of nutrition in it if you eat the whole thing! A reasonable meal even of "healthy" foods, say, lentil soup, pineapple, and a serving of yogurt would have by far and away less nutrients than a fast food meal. What we think of as "nutritious" or "healthy" foods doesn't mean that they have the absolute max of all nutrients vs. other foods, if that makes sense.

Everyone should be aware that just because the aforementioned foods are allowed, it doesn't mean that they're always equally good in terms of choices on the LE Diet. You absolutely could eat something like a Big Mac within the limits (I did this sometimes when I got my DD as we were traveling around and my husband was emphatically not supportive of swaying; he would have thought it was bizarre if I suddenly started ordering salads to eat while driving!) but the problem is on the PCOS-type diet you could NOT eat that daily because it has white buns, LOL. Secondly, at 540 calories, a Big Mac would be under your limits for the day, and then you'd be having to find 1000 cals, using only 30 g protein and fat for your other meals, which might be more difficult if you'd already burned half your fat and protein in one meal (since sometimes it can be hard to get enough calories without going overboard on fat and pro). And thirdly, in order to stick to the diet over the course of time, the more often you eat ONE big thing and then try to starve or suffer the rest of the day, that sets people up for failure, and a disruption in cycle. I do not want, and do not support, anyone eating only one meal a day on LE Diet. We have seen far too many people fall into terrible starvation diets, where they eat a huge chicken breast using up all their protein, then they eat cucumbers and iceberg lettuce to stay full, and gummy worms and marshmallows to try to get calories. That just isn't a safe, sane, balanced diet.

Some people do choose to skip over some of the old-school supposedly blue friendly foods.
That's why I mention things like celery, oats, large amounts of fresh garlic, etc in the LE Diet even though I don't believe any of those things sway (except if you were to eat supplemental forms of them, in the case of garlic tablets or oat supplements like bodybuilders use) is because they are not necessary really and they lift right out of people's diets. No one NEEDS oats, really, so if people want to give them up, no biggie.
But there is no reason to fear tomatoes, bananas, potatoes, and even avocado. They are fine and as we have continued to relax, more and more over time, on diet, sticking ONLY to limits, our results have gone up even though we eat more of those things than ever.

The difference between the higher limit of potassium on the mineral girl diets is roughly the same as the lower limit of potassium on the boy mineral diets. 2500 is the upper limit for pink, 3000 for blue (and some sources list 2500 for blue) This is about the amount
of potassium in a small bowl of strawberries. Does it make ANY sense at all that the amount of potassium in a small bowl of strawberries is making anyone have a boy or a girl?? It just makes NO SENSE at all and since we've given up on all that stuff our results have gotten higher than ever. Bananas are junk, you don't need em, if you want to leave them out just because that's fine, but tomatoes and potatoes are super handy foods on LE Diet - pasta sauces, tinned tomato, salsa, plus baked potatoes and potato salad and other similar potato dishes, these things make it SO much easier to get the right amount of cals with the proper amount of pro and fat as well!!! My daughter, in addition to being partially comprised of Big Macs, LOL, I like to joke is about 30% potato. And avocados, while not necessary, are also good ways to get fat and calories, without much protein, and can be a handy thing to fall back on if needed.

[treens]

Great information! Thank you!

[Kazzzz]

Just read this now thanks atomic. I'm worried that I've gained weight over the last week since adding in dairy but I'm still getting under the limits some days and at limits other days. How have i gained weight lol nearly a whole kg. Is 0.8 kg considered weight gain?

[atomic sagebrush]

Just read this now thanks atomic. I'm worried that I've gained weight over the last week since adding in dairy but I'm still getting under the limits some days and at limits other days. How have i gained weight lol nearly a whole kg. Is 0.8 kg considered weight gain?

Well, if it "sticks" then yes, it's still weight gain. You just need to cut back on calories somewhere to make up for the difference in the full fat dairy.

"The Limits" are just a general thing to aim at. IF you gain weight at 1800 cals, cut back to more like 1600 and see how that goes instead.

PS - you should still aim at 50-60 g protein and fat.

[atomic sagebrush]

I am transferring all my replies to the original poster here so they are all in one spot for her to refer back to instead of having them spread out in several places.

That's exactly what we do when people have gotten a sway opposite on the white carbs. I would definitely advise the alternate diet for you. We are getting better results with the alt diet for most people now anyway, provided people can stick to it (some people are too picky of eaters for it, and others just waste away to nothing while doing it.)

Breastfeeding may sway a bit pink, not sure if you planned to continue but I definitely would recommend it if you are planning on it anyway!

No I don't think you need to diet another 12 weeks, just make changes in a more pink friendly direction moving forward. If your cycle's not back there's every chance that you will have plenty of time on diet!

Be careful with gluten free diets, because some of the alternate gluten free products are sky high in carbs. I have a full explanation of that here: [url]https://www.genderdreaming.com/forum/trying-to-conceive-a-girl/80991-le-pcos-diet-whole-grains-brown-rice-high-carb-intake.html?highlight=gluten+free

Ok I answered some of these in a different message but

No grains is absolutely fine as long as you can stick in limits otherwise and aren't starving.

Fiber is before meals, only with meals containing fat. If a meal doesn't have fat, you don't need the fiber.

Artificial sweeteners have not seemed to do anything. Just use whichever one you want, although stevia is said by the old school sway people to sway blue.

Almond milk is ok, but some almond milks are higher in carbs. Full fat dairy is good for continuing ovulation.

For that reason, I like to see people have at least 1 serving of full fat dairy daily because we see people stop ovulating if they cut back too far in fat/cals. Something about dairy fat aids in ovulation. Also may help your cycles return.

You don't need eggs daily unless you can't get enough pro and fat otherwise.

You shouldn't eat salmon more than 2-3 times a week when TTC as there's a risk of mercury or other agricultural runoff that can build up in our bodies and may cause harm to developing fetuses.

Those foods are all fine but you need to stick within the limits - it's easy to fall too low or go over without realizing it. Yes give it a week to see how it works out!!

Yes that's right, better to do half and half than all white!

I think I answered the coffee question in your other thread.

Your diet seems fine but I think you should probably track it to be sure you're getting enough.

I don't think you need to give up bread, but it's fine if you want to provided you can get enough calories otherwise.

[atomic sagebrush]

Continuing on posting replies from messages into this thread so they are in one spot.
Ladies if you have a lot of questions, posting them in ONE THREAD is best because people end up getting confused if they've posted in many other places.


On the alt. diet you would not want to be eating sugary stuff. So while it's not FORBIDDEN really, you'd want to limit it. And of course anything like power bars, meal replacer shakes, etc, that have added nutrients. Some people also like to avoid some of the "blue mythological foods" LOL like bananas or celery but you really don't need to. Other than that then you can have whatever you want within limits.

Short version of alt diet is this: 1500-1800 cals for most, 50-60 g protein and fat not counting the pro and fat in fruit and veg, and low carb veg are free and unlimited, count nothing in them, not even calories. Full fat dairy only, no skim. Whole grains only (with possible exception for pasta, since whole grain pasta is just terrible and white pasta is very high protein and doesn't have the same "crash and burn" effect that other white grains do.) Avoiding sweets and added sugar as much as possible.

Dairy is fine within the limits. The only reason why I'm negative at all about it is simply because the old school sway diets treat dairy as a free for all and tell people it has magical pink sway qualities. It doesn't, and people who are drinking/eating massive amounts of dairy often have boys becuase they've ingested so many nutrients. As long as you stay in the limits of the LE Diet, though, you can have dairy to whatever extent you want.

Both milk and yogurt is fine.

For your afternoon coffees you need to put in the smallest amount of milk you can get by with. That much milk is basically like having a meal. Just have enough to lighten the coffee to palatable levels instead of turning it into another meal. This isn't about the amount of dairy overall, it's that we don't want you to in effect be eating several times a day.

Full fat dairy only on alternate diet (skim dairy is TERRIBLE for PCOS tendencies). Yes, dairy is great for the alternate diet because it's a good way to get protein and fat without as many carbs. It also helps continue ovulation even if people lose too much weight (but don't lose too much weight, LOL) No one needs to avoid dairy, regardless of what you did in the past it's simply not at all necessary and you may really struggle to meet protein and fat needs without going overboard on carbs without it. It is NOT in that "fortified food" category like breakfast cereal and power bars. I would not have told you that it was ok if it wasn't. It is the limits that matter and milk and yogurt are fine in the limits as long as you have FULL FAT ONLY, no skim or part skim.

People want to play this game where they tell me "ok is it ok within an hour" or whatever, and here's the thing - big picture, what we're trying to do is avoid keeping our blood sugar high by constant food intake, right? That's our goal. So while yeah, having a milky coffee IMMEDIATELY after is fine, and if occasionally you had a milky coffee an hour after your meal it wouldn't be that bad in the grand scheme, surely you can see that the more often you do stuff like that, the longer out of the day your body will have food coming in, and the longer out of the day your blood sugar would stay up. So you eat, and then an hour later have a milky coffee, and you do that at three meals a day, you've just doubled the amount of time your blood sugar stays up. These kinds of questions are like trying to get off on a technicality - so yeah, on occasion NBD but there are reasons why I say "have it with a meal" and "an hour after a meal" is not "with a meal". I know that's not precisely what youre asking but just so there's no confusion on what I mean by "with a meal."

Yes, you absolutely could eat a Big Mac within the limits (i did this sometimes when I got my DD as we were traveling around and my husband was emphatically not supportive of swaying) but the problem is on the PCOS-type diet you could NOT eat that daily because it has white buns, LOL. Secondly, at 540 calories, it would be under your limits for the day, and then you'd be having to find 1000 cals, using only 30 g protein and fat for your other meals, which might be more difficult if you'd already burned half your fat and protein in one meal (since sometimes it can be hard to get enough calories without going overboard on fat and pro). And thirdly, in order to stick to the diet over the course of time, the more often you eat ONE big thing and then try to starve or suffer the rest of the day, that sets people up for failure, and a disruption in cycle. I do not want, and do not support, anyone eating only one meal a day on LE Diet. I get that you're using that as an example but you'd be surprised the number of times I assumed something was "just an example" only to find that people were reading a lot into my reply, so I just want to be sure you know that one huge meal and then starving the rest of the day is no bueno. Even if it was something like a holiday, there's no benefit in starving and then gorging. It sets you up for a binge-purge cycle; it's fine to cheat now and then on holidays or just for sanity's sake, but then the rest of the day do ur LE Diet as normal, don't try to "make up for" a big meal by starving the rest of a day.

There is no reason to fear tomatoes, bananas, and potatoes. Did you know the difference between the higher limit of potassium on the mineral girl diets is roughly the same as the lower limit of potassium on the boy mineral diets??
Does it make ANY sense to you at all that the amount of potassium in a small bowl of strawberries is making anyone have a boy or a girl?? It just makes NO SENSE at all and since we've given up on all that stuff our results have gotten higher than ever. Bananas are junk, you don't need em, if you want to leave them out just because that's fine, but tomatoes and potatoes are super handy foods on LE Diet - pasta sauces, tinned tomato, salsa, plus baked potatoes and potato salad and other similar potato dishes, these things make it SO much easier to get the right amount of cals with the proper amount of pro and fat as well!!! My daughter, in addition to being partially comprised of Big Macs, LOL, I like to joke is about 30% potato. :)

Well to be honest, actually you are coming off pretty OCD to me right now, so I think we need to take a moment and get that in check because I'm starting to feel very nervous for the sake of your sway. I'm honestly thankful your cycle isn't back yet so we can get this reined in before you can get pregnant.

There's no reason to ask me if every individual food is ok. Not only is it incredibly control freakish, but also it's far easier for you to understand if you just look at what you CAN'T eat than what you have, and I have already gone over that for you. I have a more thorough explanation of why it's best for you to stop asking the same question over and over again (just so you understand, it is not at all because it irritates me in any way, because I answer the same questions several times a day, and whether they come from one person or several it's all the same to me. It's because it's actually terrible for your sway and I see a whole lot of people who do this, end up with opposites.)

Avoid these small number of things: highly fortified foods like power bars, meal replacer shakes, breakfast cereals. Avoid sweets and sugary treats, and white refined grains (except in terms of needing to have a cheat for sanity's sake). Avoid skim and part skim dairy. That's it. That's everything. Everything else is fine within limits. Pineapple is fine. Lentils are fine. The OTHER beans in your cupboard are also perfectly fine!!! Full fat dairy and yogurt is fine. Please do not go through every item in your cupboard and ask me if it's ok, because it is HUGELY control freakish and is a big red flag for me.

Now, not everything is going to be equally helpful to you for sticking in the diet, as I explained both in terms of eating Big Macs and also in terms of massive amounts of dairy, so I won't explain that again.

Here is our 2021 success rate: https://www.genderdreaming.com/forum/add-your-girl-sway-/81888-2021-pink-sway-results.html?highlight=add+pink+sway 2020 is here: https://www.genderdreaming.com/forum/add-your-girl-sway-/80501-2020-pink-sway-results.html 2019 is here: https://www.genderdreaming.com/forum/add-your-girl-sway-/77515-2019-pink-sway-results.html Overall stats thru 2018 is here: https://www.genderdreaming.com/forum/trying-to-conceive-a-girl/51473-complete-pink-swaying-statistics-spreadsheet-info-links-enter-your-sway.html?highlight=complete+sway+stats Please note that we have more people than ever in 2021 on the alterate style LE Diet so clearly it is working for people better than the standard.

I would not mess around with BCP trying to make your cycle come back. While it is believed to sway somewhat pink, in many cases it only makes it take LONGER for your cycle to return, and in many MORE cases your cycle will just return when it was going to, anyway...so like you could be on BCP for three months, then come off, and have it take another couple months to get your cycle normalized, so on the 6th cycle things are back to normal again. But at the same time you could have just waited six months and it would have been back to normal again anyway (plus, it might have been back to normal in 3 months, but you wouldn't know because you were taking the BCP!) It's just caused more trouble than it's worth to anyone except those who need it as a birth control method.

[atomic sagebrush]

More replies from other posts:

If you really do have PCO tendencies, just going vegetarian may mean you end up too high in carbs and inadvertently undermining your sway in a different way, though. Because things like lentils and beans and soy and grains all have more carbs than say a chicken breast does, vegetarians can often end up eating more carbs than they realize if they aren't tracking. So that is a very real concern I have based on observing people going this route in the past.

This is not all or nothing. This is not either you hunt down every detail and beat it to a bloody pulp or else you go away and ask no questions. By the way, asking no questions also doesn't work because then you simply sit and stew and worry, and/or do research on your own, and end up dwelling about all these questions a lot more than you would have if you would simply asked me. OR, you may end up doing things completely wrong, this has also happened, out of a misguided notion that asking a reasonable amount of questions might be too control freaky. There's a vast middle ground between the two extremes. Answering questions is what I'm here for and it will only help your sway if you use my expertise instead of just muddling thru alone.

At this point, your cycle isn't even back yet. There's no hurry. We have the time to play with this for a couple weeks. We have time for you to shoot me a bunch of questions so you aren't going to be worrying and wondering over 200 different things when it matters. Nothing is lost if you get out a notepad and a pen and do some temporary tracking see how it feels to be eating in those LE Diet limits. It may be very very similar to what you were eating when you were vegetarian, anyway. And if we decide it doesn't work for you, ok cool, we can still go back to have you being a vegetarian at that point.

Most of us on here, myself very very much included, have the same personality type as you do. It is overcomeable. We would not be getting the kinds of results we have gotten the last few years especially (with the most people on the alternate type of LE Diet!) if it wasn't something we could sway our way through. It's actually a really good thing that we've had this convo now, early on, so you can see what I'm talking about and with plenty of time to course correct. YES by all means, no need to be on the phone 24-7, get busy with something else that isn't as all consuming as this crap and just keep me on speed dial, with whatever q's you have, but just stay out of the rabbithole, that's all. :)

Metformin is separate. You would take that along WITH Femara or Clomid.

As for Femara and Clomid, I have no preference and you should use the one your doc says is better.

Both Clomid and Femara are good options. Both sway pink, and yes, people who just take one still get girls.

Use the dairy as you need to. I wouldn't ever say that anyone MUST eat it daily, but (as per my previous explanation so I won't go into it again) it is a fine choice for swaying and is absolutely a-ok to have some dairy every day. Again, our good results are in people having dairy, in most cases at least one serving a day, so it is clearly ok to have it every day since we get good results that way.

As long as you add up your nutrients periodically that's all you need to do. What can happen is that people who aren't tracking inadvertently cut back more and more over time and end up starving themselves. That's what we're trying to avoid.

Even though I don't mind answering questions, I do want to point out that when I have more than likely answered a question for you already and it's just a case where you haven't gone back and read my messages, that's not the best use of my time for sure. So maybe next time reread first, then ask. It makes it a lot easier on me. Thank you!

As long as you are sticking in the limits that is what matters. If you are sticking in the limits for protein and fat, and your calorie intake is set, you can't be getting too much of anything. That is why we have the limits set where they are.

You need to let this idea that you're eating "too much" of anything go. You've asked me this same question in about 10 different ways now and it's clearly an anxiety thing. Limits, limits, limits.

I think it is too restrictive and way overthought. You do not need to be dairy free and since you're breastfeeding I urge you to have one serving a day. Not only for your sake but for the sake of your nursing baby. Your milk will dry up if you are not eating enough.

Have you even added it up to see how much fat and protein is in it? Because I don't see how you are going to get anywhere near enough of either of those things on that diet. Unless you're having some protein and fat you're not reporting here, I do not see how it is possible that you're hitting 50-60 g protein and fat on this (remember, you cannot count protein and fat in fruits and veg). The avocado is a good source of fat and that is fine to continue.

There is no reason why you should limit beans to 3x a week and skip nuts and seeds entirely. Limits, limits, limits. Not foods, limits.

If dairy messes with your stomach, then have cheese or yogurt instead. There is no reason to drop dairy if you can't have milk, because cheese and yogurt don't trigger lactose issues for most people. I am lactose intolerant and handle cheese and yogurt just fine.

[atomic sagebrush]

Reposting answers from other places here:

Yes, it is a big problem not to get the right macros on protein and fat. You can end up overeating carbs (which can wreck your sway, remember we have you on this type of diet for a reason) and also undereating protein and fat most especially is not good for your health and will delay or even stop ovulation.

Some people need to decrease cal intake. But do try to keep eating the set amounts of protein and fat.

I don't have an opinion on beans every day - they're fine within the limits. My point is that you need to a) be getting adequate intake of protein and fat for all the reasons I have already addressed and b) quit avoiding foods for no reason. The ONLY thing you need to limit is foods that have a lot of added vitamins in them, like cereal, power bars, etc. Whatever other foods beyond that are fine.

If you weren't limiting CALORIES when eating those things then yeah, your milk supply could have stayed up. There's a lot of calories in banana and papaya. But if you cut back on calories, you will see your milk start to dry up, so keep it in mind.

I do absolutely think that keeping in the limits is of critical importance, otherwise I'd not have you track them. I already dispense with tracking things like pH, your temps, CM, etc all that stuff. The reason I continue having you guys track just this one thing is because it's important to do that. People end up delaying or stopping ovulation, AND since you're on the alternate diet, you can wreck your sway by eating pure carbs without adequate fat intake.

Technically it's best to have the booze with a meal, but that's a "cheat" that many of us, myself included, chose to have. If before bed works better for you, that's fine.

???????? Dairy does not sway pink? I am not saying "dairy sways pink" like they do on other sites. It doesn't. Dairy can be a fine part of an overall balanced sway diet but it does not sway in and of itself.

No, calcium does not sway pink. In fact, the best study ever done on maternal preconception diet and gender conceived, found that women who ate the most nutrients, including calcium, had more BOYS. Most of the people on this site, myself extremely included, got BOYS taking calcium. While I allow people to continue using calcium if they want to, I gave it all up to get my girl. Both my husband and I ate less dairy than we normally did, and did not take calcium supps, and got a girl that way.

I am simply trying to point out that our good results are in people who are not avoiding dairy. You seem to think that whole classes of foods should be completely avoided (beans, dairy) and that is simply not the case. Because the LE Diet (both regular and alternate) are about LIMITS there are no foods that need to be avoided. You can have dairy WITHIN LIMITS. You can have beans WITHIN LIMITS. We know that you can have these foods, because we see people on this diet who are getting girls! That doesn't therefore mean that dairy sways pink. Even though my husband and I ate less dairy than normal, we still ate dairy, it's not a no-no food, but it doesn't sway pink either.

I think you need to start asking me questions in the forum instead of via PM. That way you'll have all my replies in one place, you can go back and look them over, instead of via PM where you have to open and shut 20 different messages. It will be a lot easier for you to understand if you can review all my replies in one spot instead of having to reread lots of different messages. At this point I am starting to feel like you're not reading my answers and are just shooting off messages as things occur to you, and I am not going to continue on replying via PM since it's getting too confusing this way.

Let's add it up and see where you're at though just for my peace of mind. Sometimes people think they're getting more than enough only to realize that their fat in particular is super low.

As long as they're both full fat, either Greek or regular yogurt are fine. You are trying to avoid skim/part skim dairy.

Yogurt is one of those things we allow you to continue having with sugar. When we say "avoid sugar" we mean cookies, candy, cake, soda pop, putting scoops of sugar in tea or coffee, fruit mixed with sugar, that sort of thing. Sugar in yogurt and added to sauces (like pasta sauce often has sugar in it) does not need to be avoided.

All fruits and vegetables are allowed. Same rules apply - on fruit and high carb veg, count cals only, not protein or fat, and low carb veg are free and unlimited, no need to count. Pineapple is a great choice for that very reason, it really is "nature's candy" LOL

Mayonnaise is not dairy. It has no milk or milk products in it and is based on vegetable oils. It does not count for a serving of full fat dairy and isn't beneficial to your fertility in the same way that a serving of full fat dairy is. You can have mayonnaise within limits and it can be a way to get some fat when you need to, but it's not beneficial in the way that dairy is.

BTW - steer clear of "lowfat" mayo and similar things of that sort as they often have carbs added to make up for the fat in them, which is a step in the wrong direction.

[atomic sagebrush]

An answer I posted in another thread, reposting here to have all my replies in one place:

Kazzz, I feel like we are having some sort of fundamental miscommunication here, LOL. I promise you that I would not be telling you over and over again that dairy is ok within limits if it wasn't ok. My answer isn't going to change. I am not missing anything, I completely understand your question, and I repeat: Full fat dairy within limits is and always has been ok on the alternate PCOS-type LE Diet. Avoid skim and part skim because the concentrated milk sugars in it aggravate PCOS. Our good results with the alternate style LE Diet are in people all of whom did exactly this.

YES, you can have milk, yogurt, cheese, etc, any dairy food, within limits, as much as you want. Within limits. Now, eating a massive amount of dairy alone may not be the best way to get adequate calories, fat, and protein on the diet (because you'll likely quickly go over on fat and protein, then have a lot of calories left to eat and you've used up your fat and protein) but that is a separate problem of PRACTICALITY and not because "too much dairy ruins my pink sway". As long as you're in the limits you can have dairy without limits, but keep in mind you need to be getting ENOUGH food as well and there is more than just dairy to think about.

To illustrate: drinking six cups of milk, for example, will put you at 48 g protein, 48 g fat, but only 1280 calories. How will you get up to the 1500-1800, or even beyond that to 1800-2000 (since that is what most people breastfeeding need) because now you've spent so much of your protein and fat on milk?? It's also not a balanced diet (you'd be perilously low in iron and Vitamin C, for starters), would not satisfy you at all, may upset your stomach, and would be so darn borint it would very likely set you up for cheating. But that doesn't mean you can't have dairy within the limits, it means that focusing too heavily on ANY one thing is never a good approach.

The stuff you're thinking of in terms of "avoiding fortified foods" are things with large amounts of added nutrients crammed into them like power bars, meal replacer shakes, breakfast cereal, where you're eating them and getting massive intake of ALL your day's nutrients - things that have the equivalent of a whole ground up vitamin pill in them. Not regular ordinary foods. Even foods some with minor fortification, like dairy and pasta - are fine in your sway. We just can't get away from that. Please note, that even if you had 6 cups of milk like I described above, that would still be less than 100% Vitamin D and well within pink range on potassium according to the mineral diets, if that is important to you, so having dairy foods is absolutely NOTHING like taking a multivitamin or eating fortified foods.

atomic tough love alert: What you are doing here, asking me the same question over and over again, IS control freakishness. I understand you guys tell yourself that if you just can only get your every doubt erased, eventually you'll get to some place where you'll relax, but it's the process of trying to have those doubts erased that is the issue. a) "I feel anxiety about my sway b) "I'll ask atomic about this, so I can alleviate my anxiety c) "atomic answered me, but did she really understand what I was asking? Maybe she misunderstood. Yikes, maybe she was wrong??? Now I feel anxious again" d) "I'll ask her again just to be absolutely SURE and then my anxiety will go away". But it never works because it's natural to feel anxious about sways, so you're back at square one again, repeating that process over and over again (and in many cases actually going back through old posts, or dredging up studies, trying to catch me in a mistake or a lie - not saying you are doing this, Kazzz, but some people do, and OVERWHELMINGLY they have more boys, even with extremely micromanaged "perfect" sways full of mindnumbing attention to detail)

This is exactly what I don't want you to do. Plus, it takes up my time answering the same question over and over again and your other thread is still sitting there unanswered since I've taken so much time with this.

Trying to micromanage your environment and alleviate your anxiety by overly focusing on details that are either totally meaningless or that you've already gotten an answer on is a big red flag for me, so I'm hoping that we can put this behind us now and you can accept the answer I've already given you.

[Kazzzz]

Well, if it "sticks" then yes, it's still weight gain. You just need to cut back on calories somewhere to make up for the difference in the full fat dairy.

"The Limits" are just a general thing to aim at. IF you gain weight at 1800 cals, cut back to more like 1600 and see how that goes instead.

PS - you should still aim at 50-60 g protein and fat.

So we want to prioritise fat an pro an cut some cals if i start gaining? Weighed myself today so 4 days later and I'm back down I'll keep an eye on weight weekly. I'm breastfeeding an only hitting an average of 1400 cals and for pro an fat average is 30-40.

Much easier to keep all messages here thanks atomic I'm super grateful for your help your an angel.

[Kazzzz]

Just gonna start writing my daily foods here.

Breakfast
Free vege Stir-fry
Salad leaves
1/2 avo
French dressing
1 cup of pineapple
Coffee with almond milk

Lunch
2 mini vege spring rolls
1 vege patty
1 mandarin
1 cup grren grapes
Greek yoghurt
Coffee with almond milk

Dinner
100g salmon
Free vege stir-fry
1/2 cup brown rice
2x wines
1 med potato
Salad leaves
Fench dressing

=fat 39.3
=Pro 31.3
=cal 1146.4

[Kazzzz]

Breakfast
Stir-fry veg
1/2 avo
Dressing
1 mandarin
1/2 cup green grapes
Greek yoghurt
Coffee with almond milk

Lunch
2 slices wholemeal bread
Stir-fry veg
Hummus
Dressing
Coffee with almond milk

Dinner
1x slice wholemeal bread
1x veg patty
Hummus
Mustard
Salad leaves
1/2 cup pineapple
1x wine

=fat 30.5
=pro 21.9
=cal 1001.8

[Kazzzz]

Breakfast
Stir-fry veg
100g salmon
Dressing
1/2 slice bread
Yoghurt
Apple

Lunch
2x slices wholemeal bread
Hummus
Dressing
3 rice wafers
Ranch dressing
Coffee with almond milk

Dinner
Vege patty
Mushroom sauce with almond milk
3 rice wafers
Hummus
Slice of cheese
Greek yoghurt
Bit of kids left over pasta
2x wines

=fat 54.2
=pro 54.5
=cal 1654.2

[Kazzzz]

Breakfast
Stir-fry veg
Dressing
Hummus
3x rice wafers (these are the brown rice ones) to many carbs?
Greek yoghurt
Apple
Coffee with almond milk

Lunch
Tin of soup
2x wholemeal bread
Hummus
Greek yoghurt
Small banana
Coffee with almond milk

Dinner
Vege patty
Hummus
French dressing
Mustard
3x rice wafers
More hummus
Bowl of homemade minestrone soup with chickpeas an kidney beans no pasta
Match box size piece of pork chop
2x wines

=fat 22.4
=pro 37.8
=cal 1433. 1

[treens]

Nice you are so organized! Good luck!

[Kazzzz]

Nice you are so organized! Good luck!

A little too organised lol I'm a bit control freaky that's probably what got me 3 boys haha but I'm more relaxed an more confident in my sway this time and once i get clomid on board I'll be so much happier.

Thank you so much and good luck to you.

[Kazzzz]

Breakfast
Stir-fry veg
1/2 cup brown rice
1/2 avo
French dressing
Greek yoghurt
1/2 cup pineapple
Coffee w almond milk

Lunch
Homemade minestrone soup
2x slices wholemeal bread
Hummus
Coffee w almond milk

Dinner
Vege patty
Salad
Mozzarella
Dressing
2x white wines

=fat 51.5
=pro 44.1
=cals 1736.6

Had to try hard to get numbers up today wine helps get cals up lol

[atomic sagebrush]

reposting question from PM:

Hey yep I'm struggling most days to get all 3 fat pro an cals up into the ideal range but i worry if i consume even more it mite effect my sway because for 8wks i was even lower in fat pro not sure about cals but like i said i was gluten free dairy-free eating super clean an healthy, mostly fruits an veg then some nuts couple tomes a wk some salmon every second day and a potato or millet flat bread dairy i never felt hungry because i was snacking a lot but on fruit my worry is now since switching to swaying about 4 wks ago my nutrition has gone up since now I'm having dairy an wholemeal bread etc do you think that kind of switch will sway boy? I am planning on swaying for atleast 2 more months if we don't slip up lol but do you think since the bigger picture will look like 2 months super strict 3 months pcos girl sway that I'll be ok? I just worry about the switch to more nutrients dence if you know what I'm saying. Sorry this has just been on my mind since i made the switch.

Also wholemeal isn't exactly the same as wholegrain which worries me. Wholemeal has higher gi then wholegrain. Wholegrain is better for you. Whats your thoughts? I'll write out what I've been eating for you to see when i get a minute. 3 boys at home school holidays lol

[atomic sagebrush]

Kazzz, I need you to hear me this time. I have answered these questions already. Nothing you say will change my mind, and I think you are seriously, massively harming your sway by obsessing over the same set of small details again and again. The dairy is fine. The wholegrain or whole meal, whichever, we've had people use both. If you prefer to switch back to the types of breads you were eating before that's fine, I don't think it's necessary.

We have not found that relatively small shifts in nutrients like you're describing sway in any appreciable way. The worries about "nutrient dense" foods has been misleading - they just made no difference whatsoever and we have better results with the type of diet I'm describing to you - where people had more flexibility with food choices, and the full fat dairy helped keep them ovulating.. It has much more to do with the fortified foods or taking vitamins. You've shifted your nutrient macros a bit and will have a couple months, if not more since your cycle is not back yet, to adjust. People are eating basically just what you're eating and we have good results with that.

[atomic sagebrush]

So we want to prioritise fat an pro an cut some cals if i start gaining? Weighed myself today so 4 days later and I'm back down I'll keep an eye on weight weekly. I'm breastfeeding an only hitting an average of 1400 cals and for pro an fat average is 30-40.

Much easier to keep all messages here thanks atomic I'm super grateful for your help your an angel.

You need to cut calories overall while keeping the higher protein and fat intake if you are gaining weight. This is because if you're gaining on that nutrient intake, you are probably insulin resistant and need to eat fewer carbs. So by cutting calories overall, while keeping protein and fat the same, not only are you eating fewer calories overall, but you'll be eating fewer cals from carbs.

What you are eating is not enough. That's a starvation diet, particularly when breastfeeding. at minimum 1500-1800 cals. 50-60 g protein and fat is best, if you really can't eat that much then I suppose 40-50 g but then you're not going to be getting the full benefits in terms of cutting back on carbs.

[atomic sagebrush]

It's all the right kinds of foods, but you need to boost fat, protein, and calories. This is not LE Diet, it's starvation, and is not allowed especially when breastfeeding. Try eating larger portions of the same stuff if you can. Even if we have to add in another meal.

I do not believe you are possibly gaining weight on such a low food intake. I think you may have just weighed yourself with food in your stomach.

[atomic sagebrush]

The one on this page is better, but even just a couple more bites of the protein/fat foods will help. I know it's hard to believe but even just a small amount more can help.

[Kazzzz]

The one on this page is better, but even just a couple more bites of the protein/fat foods will help. I know it's hard to believe but even just a small amount more can help.




Thank you so much its very reassuring knowing that I'm eating the right kinds of food. It may not seem like it but as i stress these small issues out I'm becoming more relaxed an less ocd I'm a strange breed lol. I have lost a little bit of weight this week so thats good to see I'm not actually gaining but now i need to hold my weight I'm 61kg an 171cm tall.

I'm more then happy to eat more of the same things thats actually the easiest way to add more in and i actually did that last night and felt like i had gone over because i felt so full but i didn't. Maybe i haven't been eating enough.

Thank you for all your time an effort helping woman like me on our swaying missions xx

[Kazzzz]

The one on this page is better, but even just a couple more bites of the protein/fat foods will help. I know it's hard to believe but even just a small amount more can help.



Hey do we count calories in tomatoes like tins of tomatoes, tomato paste or tinned tomato concentrate?

[atomic sagebrush]

Yes! Absolutely count cals in those things - and if you're having, say, marinara sauce, that will have added oils (so you should count the fat in that).

[atomic sagebrush]

:agree: your BMI is at the point where I'd want you to hold steady anyway. No weight loss necessary, as long as you aren't gaining that's what we want. Just stick right where you're at!

[Kazzzz]

Yes! Absolutely count cals in those things - and if you're having, say, marinara sauce, that will have added oils (so you should count the fat in that).

I though tomatoes were free eat as many as you want? I make my own sauce just basically chopped tomatoes and tomato concentrate both with no othee ingredients just tomatoes then i add the other flavours herbs/spices etc. Should i count calories in tomatos? Thanks

[atomic sagebrush]

Tomatoes have a fair amount of sugar and are technically fruits. Because when eating tomatoes raw, most people simply have a bit of tomato chopped on a salad or a slice or two on a sandwich, that amounts to nothing, and so I don't bother having you guys count that. But when you're using a concentrated, cooked form of tomatoes, that is far more calorically dense than a few chopped tomatoes here and there, and thus you need to count them.

I would not have told you to count the calories in them if I didn't think you should count the calories in them! Now obviously, I am happy to explain WHY I am having you count the calories in them and explain the difference as I just did above, that's a totally reasonable question and I'm happy to explain. But I would not have said "yes, count calories in them" if I didn't want you to count calories in them! :)

[Kazzzz]

Tomatoes have a fair amount of sugar and are technically fruits. Because when eating tomatoes raw, most people simply have a bit of tomato chopped on a salad or a slice or two on a sandwich, that amounts to nothing, and so I don't bother having you guys count that. But when you're using a concentrated, cooked form of tomatoes, that is far more calorically dense than a few chopped tomatoes here and there, and thus you need to count them.

I would not have told you to count the calories in them if I didn't think you should count the calories in them! Now obviously, I am happy to explain WHY I am having you count the calories in them and explain the difference as I just did above, that's a totally reasonable question and I'm happy to explain. But I would not have said "yes, count calories in them" if I didn't want you to count calories in them! :)

Ok thank you.
Do we count fat pro an cal in vegetable or chicken stock? Also whats you're view on girl swayers taking evening primrose oil now?

[Kazzzz]

Has magnesium been shown more an more not to sway at all? I'm scared to take it if it even slightly sways blue but i need it for constipation, coffee, wine and ti much fiber has started causing me constipation. Thanks

[Kazzzz]

One more question atomic can we have low gi bread? How does gi play a role? Wholegrain is low gi and wholemeal is high gi along with white bread. I've got a gut feeling wholemeal is too different from wholegrain to be called the same when it comes to girl swaying.

[atomic sagebrush]

Ok thank you.
Do we count fat pro an cal in vegetable or chicken stock? Also whats you're view on girl swayers taking evening primrose oil now?

Yes, you'd count them. Now, some stocks have very little fat/protein in them, but you'd absolutely count what is there.

I don't want anyone taking EPO. Even tho we got poor results for it with blue swayers, that doesn't mean that the reverse would be true. Because pink and blue sways are different in many different ways, it may be that some things are just best for EVERYone to avoid because in some circumstances, substances behave differently than in others and it's the big picture that matters.

We just don't have a body of data to point to and say "look at all these people who got girls when taking EPO and a pink sway" and because of that, I have no reason to recommend it to anyone. Plus, EPO has messed up people's cycles quite badly and pink swayers are already quite prone to that happening so it's just not worth including.

[atomic sagebrush]

Has magnesium been shown more an more not to sway at all? I'm scared to take it if it even slightly sways blue but i need it for constipation, coffee, wine and ti much fiber has started causing me constipation. Thanks

We don't have enough data to look at any one thing and say how it sways. I have certainly seen lots of people taking magnesium (particularly when taking mag by itself without the added calcium and vitamin D) and still having girls, but of course the best study ever done on maternal diet and gender conceived found that women who conceived the most boys ate more of ALL nutrients, including magnesium.

Please drop or cut way back on fiber supplements if you are taking them, till the constipation abates.

At the end of the day, if you need magnesium, you need it. But I'd start with cutting back or even dropping fiber. Coffee should actually make you NOT constipated as it's known to have a bowel-loosening effect for most people. And wine can go either way, with some people having loose stools after drinking, and others saying it constipates them.

[atomic sagebrush]

One more question atomic can we have low gi bread? How does gi play a role? Wholegrain is low gi and wholemeal is high gi along with white bread. I've got a gut feeling wholemeal is too different from wholegrain to be called the same when it comes to girl swaying.

I do not want you guys going down the low/high gi rabbithole. It requires too much analysis, too much research, too much constant attention and monitoring every morsel of food that you eat, and we have no reason to believe that it's at all necessary. It really is just as easy as 1500-1800 cals a day, 50-60 g protein and fat (not counting the fruits and veg as we've already discussed), full fat dairy only, selecting whole grains instead of the white refined grains, and cutting way back on sugar intake. That's it. It's all you need to do. Do that and let go of these concerns about specifics that I have not included. The reason I have not included those specifics is not because I haven't thought about them, but because I have some very solid and well thought out reasons (namely that it drives people completely crazy and doesn't confer benefits that outweigh the risks of control freakishness.)

Tracking GI factors is simply not important and will only serve to make you kookoo for Low GI Cocoa Puffs thinking about what measurement everything you eat has. Don't do it. I don't recommend it and in fact recommend AGAINST it. Low and high GI has no place here.

Again, and I have already answered this question now what...3 or 4 times at least...both whole grain and "whole meal" are ok. People are eating both of them and we are getting good results. One of them is ground up a little better than the other. It doesn't matter. They are BOTH head and shoulders superior to white refined grains. Even if, as you were saying, in NZ one of them has a a little white flour in it, it's STILL ok, still much better than a loaf of fluffy white bread and cookies and cake.

If it helps you to get past this stumbling block, think of it that way from now on - that ANYTHING is fine as long as it's not a sugary treat or on white fluffy bread. Ok? Both whole meal and whole grain are fine. White and fluffy and sugary sweet isn't.

Kazzz, you have gone right past red flags into klaxons blaring, "danger Will Robinson" territory. The reason I am pointing out to you that I have already answered all these things is not because I'm a big meanie pants who doesn't like answering questions (as I already have said, I answer questions every day, and whether it's questions from lots of people or lots of questions from one person, it's all the same to me) but because it's a HUGE HUGE HUGE danger sign for me, in terms of people whose sways don't work. I have this set of people who never accept my answers and simply ask and reask and re-re-ask and then reword and reask again, and OVERWHELMINGLY these people get boys. Not always, but so very often is this the case that I can ~almost~ pick out the people whose sways won't work out because of it.

I want your sway to work, so I simply can't go on being the straight man here for this chain of repeat questions that is not accomplishing what you think it is - putting your mind at ease, because your mind is clearly NOT at ease even when I answer you 2-3-4 times! What you're doing with the repeated questions on the same subject is by far worse for your sway than any difference between tinned and fresh tomatoes or whole meal vs whole grain could ever be. You are doing this simply as an anxiety relief mechanism, because you get worried about your sway and then by asking me something and getting a reply, it briefly abates your worries. But this is only ever a temporary solution unless you make a decision to embrace this ethos: "I have done all I can do, and now I have to let this go, and it will be what it will be" That is the key to success with a sway - you can ask a million questions but there will always be a million more, until you accept that reality. All you can do is a reasonable amount, and then beyond that it's in the hands of God/the universe/Lady Luck as per your belief system.

You got this. You are on the right track, but you have to stop getting so wound up over these absolutely meaningless details that you're no longer seeing the forest for the trees.

[Kazzzz]

I do not want you guys going down the low/high gi rabbithole. It requires too much analysis, too much research, too much constant attention and monitoring every morsel of food that you eat, and we have no reason to believe that it's at all necessary. It really is just as easy as 1500-1800 cals a day, 50-60 g protein and fat (not counting the fruits and veg as we've already discussed), full fat dairy only, selecting whole grains instead of the white refined grains, and cutting way back on sugar intake. That's it. It's all you need to do. Do that and let go of these concerns about specifics that I have not included. The reason I have not included those specifics is not because I haven't thought about them, but because I have some very solid and well thought out reasons (namely that it drives people completely crazy and doesn't confer benefits that outweigh the risks of control freakishness.)

Tracking GI factors is simply not important and will only serve to make you kookoo for Low GI Cocoa Puffs thinking about what measurement everything you eat has. Don't do it. I don't recommend it and in fact recommend AGAINST it. Low and high GI has no place here.

Again, and I have already answered this question now what...3 or 4 times at least...both whole grain and "whole meal" are ok. People are eating both of them and we are getting good results. One of them is ground up a little better than the other. It doesn't matter. They are BOTH head and shoulders superior to white refined grains. Even if, as you were saying, in NZ one of them has a a little white flour in it, it's STILL ok, still much better than a loaf of fluffy white bread and cookies and cake.

If it helps you to get past this stumbling block, think of it that way from now on - that ANYTHING is fine as long as it's not a sugary treat or on white fluffy bread. Ok? Both whole meal and whole grain are fine. White and fluffy and sugary sweet isn't.

Kazzz, you have gone right past red flags into klaxons blaring, "danger Will Robinson" territory. The reason I am pointing out to you that I have already answered all these things is not because I'm a big meanie pants who doesn't like answering questions (as I already have said, I answer questions every day, and whether it's questions from lots of people or lots of questions from one person, it's all the same to me) but because it's a HUGE HUGE HUGE danger sign for me, in terms of people whose sways don't work. I have this set of people who never accept my answers and simply ask and reask and re-re-ask and then reword and reask again, and OVERWHELMINGLY these people get boys. Not always, but so very often is this the case that I can ~almost~ pick out the people whose sways won't work out because of it.

I want your sway to work, so I simply can't go on being the straight man here for this chain of repeat questions that is not accomplishing what you think it is - putting your mind at ease, because your mind is clearly NOT at ease even when I answer you 2-3-4 times! What you're doing with the repeated questions on the same subject is by far worse for your sway than any difference between tinned and fresh tomatoes or whole meal vs whole grain could ever be. You are doing this simply as an anxiety relief mechanism, because you get worried about your sway and then by asking me something and getting a reply, it briefly abates your worries. But this is only ever a temporary solution unless you make a decision to embrace this ethos: "I have done all I can do, and now I have to let this go, and it will be what it will be" That is the key to success with a sway - you can ask a million questions but there will always be a million more, until you accept that reality. All you can do is a reasonable amount, and then beyond that it's in the hands of God/the universe/Lady Luck as per your belief system.

You got this. You are on the right track, but you have to stop getting so wound up over these absolutely meaningless details that you're no longer seeing the forest for the trees.

I couldn't agree more swaying makes me more crazy 😅 i know thats exactly why i have 3 boys and now that pressure is even more but I'm more aware then ever before and I'm trying everyday to settle myself with positive self talk. I am doing so many things differently in my life right now then i was when i conceived all 3 boys. I just need to trust an let go I'm doing my best. Thanks Atomic I'll keep trying. I was looking into myo-inositol and it helps with anxiety and ocd what do you think about me adding a little bit to my sway? My baby is 14 months old so if its not safe while breastfeeding i could part or fully wean him.

[atomic sagebrush]

The dose for anxiety is huge and would be too much for our purposes. I hesitate to have you use myo given that you're not eating enough and you don't have PCOS, we're just doing the alternate diet since you got an opposite last time. Plus, your cycle isn't back yet and it could make it take even longer. It's not indicated for you medically. If you feel a burning need, you can take 500 mg (NO MORE THAN THAT) every other day till your cycle resumes, then 500 mg daily from AF-O, and every other day from O-AF, gradually weaning off at BFP.

[Kazzzz]

The dose for anxiety is huge and would be too much for our purposes. I hesitate to have you use myo given that you're not eating enough and you don't have PCOS, we're just doing the alternate diet since you got an opposite last time. Plus, your cycle isn't back yet and it could make it take even longer. It's not indicated for you medically. If you feel a burning need, you can take 500 mg (NO MORE THAN THAT) every other day till your cycle resumes, then 500 mg daily from AF-O, and every other day from O-AF, gradually weaning off at BFP.

Thanks again. I've been doing much better to hit numbers lately. I'll add my meals soon so others can see what I'm doing and to keep myself accountable lol. Plus you can see anything that mite need changing.

[Kazzzz]

The dose for anxiety is huge and would be too much for our purposes. I hesitate to have you use myo given that you're not eating enough and you don't have PCOS, we're just doing the alternate diet since you got an opposite last time. Plus, your cycle isn't back yet and it could make it take even longer. It's not indicated for you medically. If you feel a burning need, you can take 500 mg (NO MORE THAN THAT) every other day till your cycle resumes, then 500 mg daily from AF-O, and every other day from O-AF, gradually weaning off at BFP.

Ok so i brought some an it says 600mg daily which is 1/4 teaspoon. Is it ok if i take this dose but every second day?

[atomic sagebrush]

Yes!

[Kazzzz]

Thank you, also is there a certain way it should be taken? With or without food before bed etc or it doesn't matter?

[atomic sagebrush]

You can technically take it whenever, but some people feel it makes them sleepy, and so taking it before bed would probably mitigate that effect if you experience it.

[Kazzzz]

Thanks atomic.
I kinda ran out of cals yesterday my pro an fat was super low after dinner because i didn't count for the day so i added it up after dinner and didn't have many cals left so all i could do since i was still hungry was eat greek yoghurt with low cal fruit. Silly mistake wont do that again. I need some meal ideas but can't find that page with meals for pcos/alt

[atomic sagebrush]

If it comes down to that, you can bend the rules on occasion. That's one of the reasons why we have cheating as an option, because it really does help you guys stick to the diet MOST of the time, to have cheats as needed. '

But greek yogurt is a fine way to add protein and fat.

The meal sharing thread is here: https://www.genderdreaming.com/forum/trying-to-conceive-a-girl/47264-le-diet-pcos.html

[Kazzzz]

If it comes down to that, you can bend the rules on occasion. That's one of the reasons why we have cheating as an option, because it really does help you guys stick to the diet MOST of the time, to have cheats as needed. '

But greek yogurt is a fine way to add protein and fat.

The meal sharing thread is here: https://www.genderdreaming.com/forum/trying-to-conceive-a-girl/47264-le-diet-pcos.html

Fantastic thank you so so much. Happy mother's day!! I just had a mothers day breakfast cheat with my mum and sister's at a cafe i won't try add it up but I'm pretty sure it wouldn't of been too bad. I got creamy mushrooms on 2 wholemeal ciabatta toast with 1 corn fritter, lettuce leaves 2 hashbrowns, a little pesto and an almond milk mocka this hot mocka was definitely needed i miss my sweets but i was given a little chocolate with it but chose not to eat it because it wasn't worth adding more cals to my day an my sweet tooth had already been satisfied lol.

[Kazzzz]

Also do we count fat an cals in oil when cooking with it?

[atomic sagebrush]

Awesome!! Happy Mother's Day to you as well!

[atomic sagebrush]

Awesome!! Happy Mother's Day to you as well!

[atomic sagebrush]

Yes, absolutely you count calories in cooking fats. The only thing you don't count calories in is low carb vegetables. Everything else you count calories.

[Kazzzz]

Yes, absolutely you count calories in cooking fats. The only thing you don't count calories in is low carb vegetables. Everything else you count calories.

Ok got it.
Do we count fat in oil too?
And do we count protein in things like vegetable stock and condiments etc? Is it the same like count all fat pro an cals unless its low carb vegetables?
I'm going to make wholemeal buns today so I'll be even more at ease when I'm eating 100% wholemeal bread/buns but I'll keep store brought 50/50 stuff in the freezer for a backup.

[atomic sagebrush]

Yes, you count fat in oil.

You count nothing in low carb veg, they're free and unlimited.

Count calories ONLY in higher carb veg (the sweet and starchy ones) but not protein and fat.

The exceptions to the above rules are avocado, in which we count cals and fat since they're very high in fat, and beans/peas where we'd count calories and protein, since they have a lot of protein. But everything else works that way.

Count calories, protein, and fat, in everything else. If something is super duper low, like mustard or veg stock I'd probably not bother with counting them, but you need to be honest about how much you're eating and how much is in them.

When it comes to things like condiments, you'd be surprised how much is in them. Mayonnaise, salad dressing has a lot of fat and cals. Ketchup, sweet salad dressing, barbeque sauce has a lot of calories and in some cases fat.

[Kazzzz]

Yes, you count fat in oil.

You count nothing in low carb veg, they're free and unlimited.

Count calories ONLY in higher carb veg (the sweet and starchy ones) but not protein and fat.

The exceptions to the above rules are avocado, in which we count cals and fat since they're very high in fat, and beans/peas where we'd count calories and protein, since they have a lot of protein. But everything else works that way.

Count calories, protein, and fat, in everything else. If something is super duper low, like mustard or veg stock I'd probably not bother with counting them, but you need to be honest about how much you're eating and how much is in them.

When it comes to things like condiments, you'd be surprised how much is in them. Mayonnaise, salad dressing has a lot of fat and cals. Ketchup, sweet salad dressing, barbeque sauce has a lot of calories and in some cases fat.


Do we count fat in beans like say kidney beans?
And i use a lite greek dressing do you think thats ok? I think it says less then 1g carbs no protein no fat an i just count the cals in it.

[Kazzzz]

I'm finding myself heavily relying on greek yoghurt to get my fats up each day is that ok? I'm still losing weight so now I'm actually aiming for 60/60 as a daily target by using things like Greek yoghurt and even some butter like today on my bread when I'd normally have hummus. I'm trying to hold my weight. I want to get my period back soon but I'm still breastfeeding my 14m old plus exercising 6 days a week so hopefully not too much going on that it will be delayed much longer. I've only lost 0.6 kgs in a wk still slowly treading downwards but I'll see what these new increases do.

[atomic sagebrush]

Do we count fat in beans like say kidney beans?
And i use a lite greek dressing do you think thats ok? I think it says less then 1g carbs no protein no fat an i just count the cals in it.

Ok. I want you to go back and reread my answer above, because I actually told you this already. I told you in avocados to count calories and fat, and in beans to count calories and protein, and if I'd wanted you to count fat in the beans, I would have said it at that point.

I truly think you ask me these questions as a control freak, anxiety reducing mechanism and not because you don't know the answers. Again, I don't mind answering your questions, as many as you have, but it's quite clear to me that these aren't "real" questions and are simply you attempting to mitigate anxiousness by focusing inordinately on minute details. I'm not sure how else to impress upon you how serious an issue this mindset is for your sway outcome, but it is highly predictive of sway opposites.

But, just to shed some further light:

Dry kidney beans and their canned equivalent naturally have so little fat that it would be listed as NO fat or some minuscule amount like .8 g, and we'd not count them. If you're looking at a can of beans that have more than zero g fat, they've added something in them like lard or oil and then you'd count the amount of fat in them.

You would ALWAYS count any added fat to things like fruit, veg, grains, etc.

[atomic sagebrush]

I'm finding myself heavily relying on greek yoghurt to get my fats up each day is that ok? I'm still losing weight so now I'm actually aiming for 60/60 as a daily target by using things like Greek yoghurt and even some butter like today on my bread when I'd normally have hummus. I'm trying to hold my weight. I want to get my period back soon but I'm still breastfeeding my 14m old plus exercising 6 days a week so hopefully not too much going on that it will be delayed much longer. I've only lost 0.6 kgs in a wk still slowly treading downwards but I'll see what these new increases do.

It's time to stop asking me about dairy within limits. You already know the answer. Dairy within limits is fine. Continuing to ask the same thing again and again is not beneficial for your sway.

It's GREAT you've upped your limits. That's what I want you guys to do. Even if you need to go up to 65 g pro and fat plus 2000-2200 cals to stop excessive weight loss, do that. We still see excellent results in people who had to increase calories to stop weight loss, so it will not undo your sway to do that.

[Kazzzz]

It's time to stop asking me about dairy within limits. You already know the answer. Dairy within limits is fine. Continuing to ask the same thing again and again is not beneficial for your sway.

It's GREAT you've upped your limits. That's what I want you guys to do. Even if you need to go up to 65 g pro and fat plus 2000-2200 cals to stop excessive weight loss, do that. We still see excellent results in people who had to increase calories to stop weight loss, so it will not undo your sway to do that.

I'm still new to all this pcos diet stuff and i never counted stuff last time so I'm trying to remember everything my memory isn't great as is. Sorry if i ask things twice I'll start writing notes to look back on as I'm normally in a hurry an don't have time to reread everything on here. My canned beans had like 5 grams of fat so i just included it. It must of had some oil added. I'm learning everything slowly thanks for your help atomic.
I do feel worried with my ocd that I'm destined to have a 4th boy 😔 which i can't change. I don't know what to do but hope that everything else I'm doing will be stronger then my ocd. I decided not to take the anxiety/ocd medication and I'm just trying to be more mindful.

[Kazzzz]

Hey so I'm getting clomid do you have any advice? I'm thinking about getting 30 100mg and just breaking them in half because I'll get double that way or i can get the 50mg an brake them in half if only 25mg is recommended?

[atomic sagebrush]

:agree: yes if you have a can of beans with 5 g of fat in it then it absolutely had oil added. Glad you counted that!

I would stick with the 50 mg (whether you get 100's and split them, or just the 50, either way). Then you'd take that from CD 3-7.

[Kazzzz]

Ok thanks. I don't know how long it will take for me to conceive but i hate the diet so different to what I'm use to which i guess is a good sign. I hope it doesn't take too long though. Do you have advice on how to restart periods postpartum while still breastfeeding? My 15 month old has recently reduced his number of day feeds so only feeding him before his 1 nap a day, before bed at night and 3 times during the night he's pretty bad during the night for his age lol that's probably whats delaying my period.

[Kazzzz]

Hey also i can get femara or clomid so which would you recommend? I know a few years ago femara seemed better for a girl sway. Based on more sways since then do you now know more info?

[atomic sagebrush]

Kazzzz, what are the most irritating things to you about the diet?? We can often change things up to make it easier to stick with diet in the long term, either by correcting misconceptions about what you can and can't eat, while also bending the least important rules somewhat.

The best thing you can do is be sure you're eating enough. Yes, cutting back on night feeds may help, but as a mom to kiddos who ALWAYS nursed a lot at night, I know that is easier said than done and the disruption to sleep and everyone's overall happiness level will ALSO be challenging in terms of your cycle coming back. I would just keep doing what you're doing and don't cut back too far on food intake, particularly fat.

None of the herbal remedies work in any reliable way, and they're all very disruptive to the cycle, in many cases making it take even longer to resume.

I suspect your cycle will be coming back in short order. The longest mine ever took, even when on LE Diet and nursing TWO babies in tandem was 18 months.

[atomic sagebrush]

Hey also i can get femara or clomid so which would you recommend? I know a few years ago femara seemed better for a girl sway. Based on more sways since then do you now know more info?

Both Clomid and Femara are good for pink. One study seemed to show slightly higher rates of pink in Femara, but it was minimal. We have good results with both. People 38ish and up should use Femara as it's not as harsh on egg quality as Clomid can be, but anyone 37 and younger can generally use Clomid, for sure anyone 35 and under can use Clomid.

I feel that we have seen better odds of conception on Clomid, so I generally recommend that anyone in the right age range that has the option, use Clomid. But both are fine, and it very well may be the reason why we occasionally see people who are having trouble getting pregnant on Femara has more to do with the fact that they're older and/or can't take Clomid for some reason.

Long story short, 37 and under can use Clomid, for sure if you're under 35, 38ish and up use Femara (unless Clomid is all you can get)

[Kazzzz]

Fantastic thank you thats good to hear about the 18months because i also read its not common to still be without a period past that 18months mark. I'm thinking August for our first attempt anyway so fingers crossed it comes back some time 15-18months. I'm open to conceiving anytime before then if it happens but would rather sway with clomid which i haven't got yet and also would like to avoid having my kids share a birth month but we have been having unprotected sex randomly here an there which would full into 1 attempt if i court the first egg. Otherwise I'll start properly trying in August.

With the diet its the no snacking i hate and not being able to eat often and what ever i want lol i use to get a treat for myself everytime i went into any store very high calorie diet i can only imagine. I'd get a large bigmac combo and drown my fries in ketchup and eat a large chocolate sunday all in 1 sitting. But thats ok i guess i just miss being a pig lol I keep telling myself when i get my bfp i can go back to eating how ever i want. I'm really enjoying aiming at 60/60/2000 that feels much better i feel spoilt but weight still down 1kg since last week but i only just increased 3 days ago so we'll see. I'm eating full fat yoghurt an pineapple with every meal at 11am 3pm an 7pm gosh its so amazing its my happy meal like a dessert.

I'll get an take clomid after my period returns thanks

[Kazzzz]

So what are all the sway things for pcos sway as a whole?
Staying within limits
Low-no sugar
Exercise
Fasting
No snacking
Clomid if you can get it
Coffee
Alcohol
Is that right? I'm doing all these plus breastfeeding and the myo-inositol which i just started every second day.

[atomic sagebrush]

Hmm, it's not super common but it's certainly not rare. We see it fairly often.

:agree: yes keep on with the 60-60-2000.

If you want to, you can absolutely add in a 4th meal and see if that helps (with the same amount of cal/pro/fat intake just spread thinner). It's still different than grazing all day long and it may help you feel happier on the diet.

[atomic sagebrush]

Here is what I wrote on the first page of this thread:

Short version of alt diet is this: 1500-1800 cals for most, 50-60 g protein and fat not counting the pro and fat in fruit and veg, and low carb veg are free and unlimited, count nothing in them, not even calories. Full fat dairy only, no skim. Whole grains only (with possible exception for pasta, since whole grain pasta is just terrible and white pasta is very high protein and doesn't have the same "crash and burn" effect that other white grains do.) Avoiding sweets and added sugar as much as possible.

Yes, exercise, clomid if you can get it, coffee, alcohol are great to add in
If possible, you'd want to have that 12-16 hour fast overnight and then keep it to 3 meals in the rest of that time. Some people prefer only 2 meals and that's also ok. 1 meal is not ok. If you need to do more like 12 hour fast and 4 meals, we've had some people do that and still get girls.

[Kazzzz]

Fantastic that perfectly sums it up. I'll stick to 3 meals for now. I'm much happier with thos sway then i was last time i swayed because i was only eating 2 meals so towards the end i started cheating due to what must have been starvation i wasn't counting and was hungry alot. I was also drinking like 1/2 to a full bottle of wine each night man that must have bumped my calories right up. I can see were i went wrong and how to do better this time. Its a marathon not a sprint lol

[atomic sagebrush]

Yes!! Honestly I'd do away with the 2 meals all together, but there are a whole lot of people who actually prefer 2 big meals where they feel completely satisfied, OR who are slower at digesting and feel stuffed with three. So I just leave it at 2 or 3 whichever works best for you.

1000% agree - definitely marathon!!! The "sprinters" get way worse results too!

[Kazzzz]

Just going to reply here
I struggled to get all numbers up at the start now I'm loving it. I like having room to move kinda thing and if after dinner I'm low on things i get to have a snack or two le/alt friendly like yoghurt an fruit i love that I'm eating more now i just pray i don't gain cause i don't want to reduce anything lol 60/60/2000 is doable long term. I was wondering if tinned pineapple is ok is it much sweeter then fresh? I get the one in juice not syrup and i don't consume the juice. Also is it to much carbs in one day to have bread, rice, pasta, beans all in the same day? I've using be beans in my vegetable patties an in my soups. I know you've said only worry about fat pro an cals but i sometimes think about carbs would be nice to clear that up. Its all brown ie rice pasta bread etc but is having all of them everyday ok? A small amount of each.

And last thing when you say count protein in peas do you mean like frozen green peas? Or just like in chickpeas etc

[Kazzzz]

Sorry if you already spoke about beans daily carbs etcs. I'll add my daily meals from the last around about 10 days an you'll see if it's too carby

[atomic sagebrush]

I don't want you to track carbs. If you eat the appropriate amount of fat, protein, calories, avoid sugary treats, and focus on whole grains instead of white refined grains (with the possible exception of pasta, as we already discussed) then the carbs take care of themselves. Only worry about fat, protein, and calories. Do not track carbs. And you can have any combination of foods within those limits, meaning that yes, you can have them all in one day. Any combination within limits.

Fresh pineapple is probably better, but if the tinned is what's available, it's certainly better than a cookie or whatever.

Yes, you count the protein in peas. They are legumes and as such have protein that your body can actually use (instead of the microscopic amounts that are in other veg that your body doesn't really have access to).

[atomic sagebrush]

Sorry if you already spoke about beans daily carbs etcs. I'll add my daily meals from the last around about 10 days an you'll see if it's too carby

Please do not. There is no point to it and I don't want you to track carbs. This is simply an anxiety thing and you do not need to add all that up. The more you fret about stuff that doesn't matter, the worse it is for your sway.

[Kazzzz]

Ok got it. Thank you so much I'll just remember that as long as I'm within limits the carbs are in check by default. I'm more relaxed now then i have been. I pretty much know everything i need to know now and can relax and sell our house so we can move its good to have a big distraction.

[Kazzzz]

Please do not. There is no point to it and I don't want you to track carbs. This is simply an anxiety thing and you do not need to add all that up. The more you fret about stuff that doesn't matter, the worse it is for your sway.

Hey do you still recommend to avoid onion and garlic if possible? And why do women taking metformin get to be more slack on diet or have more leeway? Whats the idea behind that?

[atomic sagebrush]

It largely depends on how strict you personally want to be.

Honestly, I never believed that anyone had to limit onion and garlic for a sway (it simply makes no sense as people eat loads of onion and garlic in countries around the world) but when I first made the LE Diets, I tried to keep as much harmless stuff in as I could, and since no one technically NEEDS onions or garlic, I figured if people wanted to leave them out, they could. (same with celery) But I do not think eating a bit of onion or garlic could harm a sway whatsoever and you guys can absolutely continue eating them if you want. It makes absolutely no sense that anyone's sway ever came down to eating onions. It just doesn't work that way.

But it's up to you. As a compromise, you can keep things like salsa, marinara sauce, etc that has added garlic and onion flavoring, and skip eating large amounts of home cooked garlic and onion in your meals. But there's no real reason to other than me just trrying to placate people who (back at the start of this site) were super hung up on the old school diets.

The reason why people on Metformin have a bit more leeway is because Metformin helps improve insulin response in people and thus they can handle carbs better than someone who isn't on it. Additionally, sometimes people on Metformin have a harder time keeping weight on and may need a little help with that in terms of slightly more refined carbs, simply to prevent themselves from losing weight they can't spare, or losing a lot of weight very quickly.

Please be aware that metformin is a powerful drug, it is not right for everyone or even most people, and I do not want anyone taking it for no reason thinking it would sway, or thinking that they can now have sugary stuff while on it. Even with metformin you'd still get better results with whole grains, fruit, and veg. So please, ladies, unless you have been prescribed metformin for medical need, do not take it without your doctor's approval.

[Kazzzz]

It largely depends on how strict you personally want to be.

Honestly, I never believed that anyone had to limit onion and garlic for a sway (it simply makes no sense as people eat loads of onion and garlic in countries around the world) but when I first made the LE Diets, I tried to keep as much harmless stuff in as I could, and since no one technically NEEDS onions or garlic, I figured if people wanted to leave them out, they could. (same with celery) But I do not think eating a bit of onion or garlic could harm a sway whatsoever and you guys can absolutely continue eating them if you want. It makes absolutely no sense that anyone's sway ever came down to eating onions. It just doesn't work that way.

But it's up to you. As a compromise, you can keep things like salsa, marinara sauce, etc that has added garlic and onion flavoring, and skip eating large amounts of home cooked garlic and onion in your meals. But there's no real reason to other than me just trrying to placate people who (back at the start of this site) were super hung up on the old school diets.

The reason why people on Metformin have a bit more leeway is because Metformin helps improve insulin response in people and thus they can handle carbs better than someone who isn't on it. Additionally, sometimes people on Metformin have a harder time keeping weight on and may need a little help with that in terms of slightly more refined carbs, simply to prevent themselves from losing weight they can't spare, or losing a lot of weight very quickly.

Please be aware that metformin is a powerful drug, it is not right for everyone or even most people, and I do not want anyone taking it for no reason thinking it would sway, or thinking that they can now have sugary stuff while on it. Even with metformin you'd still get better results with whole grains, fruit, and veg. So please, ladies, unless you have been prescribed metformin for medical need, do not take it without your doctor's approval.

Thanks for clearing that up so myo-inositol is similar? Also when can i increase my myo-inositol I'm taking 600 every second day? And is a sugary treat ok once in a blue moon? I had a small apple muffin with my breakfast while out with my sisters. It didn't taste overly sweet to be honest but i felt guilty. I've had maybe 2-3 sweet things over the last 4 months so this is hugely different for me as i normally eat 1-2 sweet treats a day.

[atomic sagebrush]

No, myoinositol is not similar to Metformin, they're different things that may have similar OVERALL effects (making you more resistant to high blood sugar) but they work in very different ways and are not interchangeable. Since you shouldn't be on Metformin anyway, this doesn't apply to you, but in case anyone is reading this who is on Metformin and now imagines that they are the same, no, they're not, and anyone who has been prescribed Metformin should stay on it rather than switch over to myoinositol. If they were interchangeable your doctor would already have given it to you.

Metformin is very much stronger than myoinositol, so if you are asking me if the rules are the same for myoinositol as I've explained above, no, not really. If you're having weight fly off, then yes of course you'd eat more overall and ~possibly~ more empty carbs if that were the only way to get enough calories, but you'd want to try to stick to the diet as much as possilbe (this is true on Metformin as well, of course)

Don't increase your myoinositol. You don't need more.

Cheating for the sake of both sanity and also because you don't want to have to explain to your family members why you're eating weirdly, is not only allowed, but encouraged as needed on the LE Diet. This includes occasionally having something sweet on the alternate diet. Having something sweet 2-3 times in 4 months is absolutely fine and honestly an apple muffin probably was a great choice.

Please don't feel guilty about stuff like that. It isn't necessary and in fact is counterproductive since it's a control freak mindset to get hung up on small details that don't matter at all. You can see there's a huge difference between eating sweets a couple times a day and vs. what you're doing now, and that's what matters.

[Kazzzz]

Thanks yep i agree. I just have this thought this time around that sugar is my enemy since its always been so prominent in my life up until now and i have 3 boys lol I'll allow a sweet treat once a month or something.
Can myo-inositol help restore periods?

[Kazzzz]

Hey I'm drinking vodka an soda water with fresh lime juice do i need to count any of that except of course the vodka? And i just realised I've been counting my fat/pro an cals to the first decimal so instead of counting say 23.45 i just count 23.4 is that ok? Probably not ay?

[atomic sagebrush]

Thanks yep i agree. I just have this thought this time around that sugar is my enemy since its always been so prominent in my life up until now and i have 3 boys lol I'll allow a sweet treat once a month or something.
Can myo-inositol help restore periods?

Right, but you have to avoid all or nothing thinking. Look at how very different what you're doing now is from what you were doing before. It's a huge change.

One of the reasons why it is so important to allow yourself cheats is because people in your life do not understand why you're eating in odd ways. They ask a questions, which swayers find very stressful, and so swayers end up coming up with all these crazy plots and schemes to trick people into not noticing (and this is SUPER CONTROL FREAKISH and sways far more than the occasional diet cheat could). There were people back on Ingender who would write 5 page long threads with all these schemes to "get away with" eating at a holiday, at a work function, etc etc etc. Yet if you look at the diets of everyone who has kids of either gender, absolutely NONE of us ever ate straight off the girl or boy menu all the time, and there are tons of different food combos and cuisines all around the world, it just makes absolutely NO sense that anyone is getting girls or boys because they ate ONLY cranberry and rice cakes or iceberg lettuce and Top Ramen without ever eating anything else ever. It just does not add up at all. And by allowing those occasional cheats, we completely circumvent that "swaycessing" some people do around holidays and special occasions, in addition to giving more leeway to avoid getting out of control cravings, and to give your body a chance at nutrients it may be lacking.

Our good results are all in people who do occasionally cheat. Cheating does not hurt and in fact helps. Many of my opposites are in the people who are the most super strict and controlling because they have to be so constantly obsessing over their sways, at all times.

You don't need to set a time frame on cheating. As needed. That way if something comes up and you're with your sister and she wants to get a muffin, you can do that and don't think "well I already had a cheat this month so I can't." Try to let go of control when you can.

If your period had gone missing because of PCOS, then yes, it can for some people help restore cycles. Your cycles have gone missing from breastfeeding and in that case, myoinositol may actually take LONGER. This is because myoinositol can lower levels of some hormones, which is good for PCOS since it's an issue of too many of certain hormones, but not as good for cycles that have gone missing from breastfeeding, which is often caused by lower than normal hormone levels. Prolactin, caused by nursing, can make your estrogen a bit lower (this is good and how it may help a sway) but since the myo can also have similar effects (it lowers androgens all together, which if it goes too far, may have a negative effect on your overall fertility, but again, this is likely how it sways) it may make it take longer for your cycle to come back.

[atomic sagebrush]

Lime = fruit = count calories only, not fat or protein. But if you're having a minuscule amount as a flavoring agent you'd not bother with it as it doesn't amount to anything. Try to keep in mind we're working with generalities.

Actually, just count in roiugh whole numbers. So if you have say 23.8 grams just round to 24. If you have 23.4 grams round down to 23. You do not need to do things to the decimal, that's exactly the type of detail-oriented, meaningless stuff that messes with the control freakishness factor.

[Kazzzz]

Lime = fruit = count calories only, not fat or protein. But if you're having a minuscule amount as a flavoring agent you'd not bother with it as it doesn't amount to anything. Try to keep in mind we're working with generalities.

Actually, just count in roiugh whole numbers. So if you have say 23.8 grams just round to 24. If you have 23.4 grams round down to 23. You do not need to do things to the decimal, that's exactly the type of detail-oriented, meaningless stuff that messes with the control freakishness factor.

Ok yes i did think about rounding it up or down that would be so much better but i didn't want to muck it up by trying to make it easier. I'm trying really hard to relax without over thinking it but I've got to be honest swaying takes up alot of my thoughts it mostly around food because I'm cooking to suit the sway, normally just meat an 3 veg but now I'm doing vege/rice bakes, soups, veg /lentil patties, vege chilli etc so a bit more planning an work so its on my mind. I like to cook really fulling meals. I cooked your idea of creamy cheesy potato bake the other night omg so so delicious i will be making it once a week for sure since the whole family was happy with it.

Do you think i should stop the myo for now? Until my period returns? I'm not interested in delaying things even more.

[atomic sagebrush]

I want you to make it easier on things like that!! A little more, a little less, that sort of thing is ok.

Over time, you will find you think about the sway less and less. That's one of the reasons why it's actually kinda nice to have a head start with your cycle being away for now - by the time it comes back we'll have all this figured out.

One thing that worked for me when swaying (without much planning involved) was simply cooking normal meals for my family and then I'd just not eat the meat. So I'd have a vege/salad, rice or potato side dish, sometimes a small dessert (as I wasn't on the alt. diet) or a buttered whole grain roll, and then my husband and kiddos would have meat, but I'd just not eat that. It worked really well.

I would rather you didn't use the myoinositol. It's your choice but I would not have recommended it for you).

[Kazzzz]

Ok thanks for the tips i mite start having dinner sides ie vegetables with brown rice an a bit of butter since brown rice is higher in pro an need to balance the fat. I'll just cook a whole bunch of different veges an lots of them. This would be a quick an easy go to dinner.

I'll stop myo for now. I really want my period to return when its due to an not be delayed by me.

[Kazzzz]

Hey was just reading an old post of yours can we eat protein an carbs together for breakfast now? I eat large meals at 11am, 3pm, and 7-8 pm. Also thought I'd update you my weight is staying put now I'm hitting 2000/60/60 so I'm happy about that.

[atomic sagebrush]

Hey was just reading an old post of yours can we eat protein an carbs together for breakfast now? I eat large meals at 11am, 3pm, and 7-8 pm. Also thought I'd update you my weight is staying put now I'm hitting 2000/60/60 so I'm happy about that.

Yes, that was something we came up with for people who had to eat breakfast. But over time we saw enough people who had to eat breakfast and still got girls anyway that we no longer worry about that. As it turned out, it was more the all day eating that was messing with sways and not just breakfast itself. There's nothing magic about breakfast, it's just the number of hours overall you're going without food coming in.

Awesome job on getting more food!

[Kazzzz]

Yes, that was something we came up with for people who had to eat breakfast. But over time we saw enough people who had to eat breakfast and still got girls anyway that we no longer worry about that. As it turned out, it was more the all day eating that was messing with sways and not just breakfast itself. There's nothing magic about breakfast, it's just the number of hours overall you're going without food coming in.

Awesome job on getting more food!

Hey i was thinking a few things

1. I was thinking what if its actually eating at night that sway more blue because after like 3 o'clock our bodies fat burning slows right down so people trying to lost weight are told to have an early dinner 5-6 then nothing till breakfast i watched a programme about how our bodies work an diets etc

2. Also whats your thoughts on maca powder for restarting periods? I used it after having my first 2 children an it brought my period back within 7 days each time. It apparently stabilises hormones

3. I know on the alt sugar is to be avoided or limited but does that go for artificial sweeteners too? I was thinking since it doesn't raise blood sugar maybe its ok? I thought i could get away with baking something like wholemeal fruit muffins with some artificial sweetener in them. This is me wanting sweet but avoiding "sugar" lol

[atomic sagebrush]

1) We can sit around speculating all we want about "maybe it's this or that" but we simply do not know. That having been said, it makes no sense whatsoever that it's "eating at this hour or that hour" because the most likely explanation as to why swaying works is that it gives a baby of a certain gender a better chance of survival and growing up to pass down genes to future generations. So if you don't have enough calories coming in for a baby boy, why in the heck would that change because you ate dinner at 8pm instead of 6? These very fine details simply don't add up to affecting a sway, AND they contribute to control freakishness by encouraging you guys to be thinking about your sway every minute of every hour of every day.

What makes the most sense is just that eating less often helps your sway (because your blood sugar is lower on average across the days and weeks). The ONLY reason we push back breakfast is that's just the easiest time for most people to miss a meal, or push it back by a few hours. There is nothing magic about missing breakfast, it's that we are eating less often OVERALL. Some people find it easier to skip dinner. That is ok. Others are incapable of missing dinner (ME) and I had to eat pretty much last thing before going to bed or I couldn't sleep. I still got a girl doing that so whatever that program you saw on TV was saying, it certainly didn't undo my sway by eating at 8-9 PM and since tons of other people have also done that (including some blue swayers who ended up with girl opposites) I can pretty definitively say that no ones sway is wrecked by eating before bed.

This type of CONSTANT thinking, theorizing, fine tuning your sway is absolutely the worst possible thing you could be doing right now. Seriously. The more you guys focus on theories and suppositions, the more you go down these rabbitholes where you're basing sways on totally hypothetical musings instead of just doing what works for most people most of the time. Please just do what has worked for people and let go of this controlling mindset because it is ruinous to sways.

2)Please do not use maca. If I had thought maca was a good idea, I would have told you to use maca. I do not have anyone use maca (many blue swayers want to use maca, because some sites claim it sways blue and also because it's supposedly "good for fertilty") because it has caused all sorts of weird side effects, even crazy things like hallucinations and head-to-toe itching, and like literally every other hormonal herbal supplement, can actually make it take LONGER for your cycle to resume. Plus, you are nursing and there is inadequate information about safety when nursing.

Additionally, if your period came back within 7 days of using maca, then it was either a) not actually a period and you caused yourself to start bleeding by suddenly lowering your estrogen levels and triggering a breakthrough bleed that was not your period at all since it did not follow ovulation, or b)your cycle was already on its way back. Your period doesn't just "come back". In order to have a true period, you first must ovulate (and it takes a good week-10 days minimum for an egg to develop to the point it can be ovulated.) Then, 10-14 days later, your period would come. So unless you had already ovulated, your period could not have come back 7 days later from Maca. If that was a true period, you had already ovulated on your own, and if it was breakthrough bleeding, that wasn't a period anyway and taking Maca had hormonal effects on you - the same type of effects that may keep ovulation away even longer.

3)Yes, artificial sweetener is fine. You can try a wholegrain muffin with artificial sweetener if you'd like, but of course the cooked fruit will itself have sugars in it (fresh fruit is better than cooked fruit in terms of blood sugar) and if you use dry fruit like sultanas or dates, they are VERY sugary and are probably best used in extreme moderation. Since you're on the alt. diet more as a preventative than due to active PCOS, having muffins now and then, even once a day, is probably ok but I'd not treat it as a free for all and absolutely do not have them between meals, on ly with meals.

[Kazzzz]

Watching the program got me thinking that's all.

Cool I won't try try the maca but i will make some wholemeal apple and cinnamon muffins for a treat that will be nice since i love to bake and normally would bake sweet treats a few times a week before swaying started. I mite make some savory muffins too that would be a quick an easy go to.

[atomic sagebrush]

Great!!! Enjoy!

[Kazzzz]

Great!!! Enjoy!

Thank you

[Kazzzz]

Hey atomic I've lost a little bit more weight only 700 grams over 2wks but i really don't want to delay my period from coming back. Should i see what my weight does next week then go from there or should i add some more of something now? I am power walking for 1 hr 6-7 times a week and will now be switching to my stationery bike i just purchased and still breastfeeding 5x in 24hrs

[atomic sagebrush]

Add more calories right now. Temporarily you might want to drop to 5 days a week exercise till the weight loss stops.

[Kazzzz]

Add more calories right now. Temporarily you might want to drop to 5 days a week exercise till the weight loss stops.

Ok cool thats fine by me I've lost motivation for daily exercise now. Do you think 60/60/2200 would be a good new target? It has been 60/60/2000 although i do struggle to get to the 60 protein an mostly hitting 45 to 55 range but i have been doing well on fat an cals.

[atomic sagebrush]

Yes that's fine, do try to hit that protein range tho even if you have to switch out some of the carb calories for a small bit of meat.

[Kazzzz]

Ok I'll try. One other thing you don't believe sweeteners play any part in swaying right? So me having Stevia as my daily sweetner is fine? I just figured i can eat more normally but just use sweetener an wholemeal instead like this morning making pancakes with sweetener an wholemeal its nice to be eating some normal things now i went into it pretty strict but have relaxed a bit and increased my variety of foods.

So pcos/alt girl sway is low to no sugar which i completely think i need to be a part of but sweetners aren't sugar so they don't count as sugar at all right? We can eat as much as the safety guidelines say right? And it won't effect our girl sway? I love sweet stuff have always eaten tons of it so I'm hoping i can just switch out real sugar for fake.

Last thing do you think it would be classed as a meal if i have a coffee sachet first thing in the morning? Heres the details its 98% sugar free coffee sachets. I'm feeling empty in the mornings now must be because I've been constantly losing weight loss this year. I get up at 6.30 and don't have breakfast till 10.30 - 11 am

Cals 50
Pro 0
Fat 2
Sugar 1
Carbs 4

Is that high carbs? I was thinking about ditching the sachets an just using a little coco in my coffee to give a chocolaty hint that would probably be better wouldn't it so i can drop these added carbs in these sachets?

[atomic sagebrush]

Yup, I don't believe stevia sways blue but I have no data to prove it either way.

Right, artificial sweetener is not sugar. You can have it if you like on the alternate diet.

[Thefinalcountdown]

FWIW - I had tons i means loads of stevia when I got my girls.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Kazzzz]

FWIW - I had tons i means loads of stevia when I got my girls.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Ok cool thats good to know. Thanks

[Kazzzz]

Yup, I don't believe stevia sways blue but I have no data to prove it either way.

Right, artificial sweetener is not sugar. You can have it if you like on the alternate diet.

Thanks atomic
Does this look like a meal to the body would you say? It's my low sugar coffee sachets

Pro 0
Fat 2
Sugar 1
Carbs 4

[atomic sagebrush]

How many cals in all?

[Kazzzz]

Its 50cal.

Also i brought this sweetener the ingredients are sodium cyclamate and sodium saccharin. I've never brought it before an a quick Google search says in recent studies it showed to rise blood sugar, is it still ok to use as my daily sweetner? At the moment all of my coffees are with meals. But i would love a coffee first thing in the morning with the nutritional values i mentioned but but not sure if that would be considered a snack/meal? Thanks a bunch

[atomic sagebrush]

I'd not worry about that 50 cal drink first thing in the morning. Now, if you were drinking it every 15 minutes thru the day, then yes that would be more of an issue and should be limited.

There are studies with mixed evidence on all the artificial sweeteners. Try to keep in mind that we honestly don't know how swaying works anyway; higher blood sugar is just a theory and I hate to see you guys focusing on theories that aren't really even proven, because even if they're 100 percent true, we still don't know the mechanics of it. Tons of people have used some artificial sweetener when swaying pink and gotten girls, so I know it is not a magic blue bullet, but at the same time I've seen people who are using the insane scary high amounts getting boys (now I suspect that's the control freakishness of people who do that, and not the artificial sweetener itself...but I don't know that.)

If it helps you stick to the diet overall, then I'd use it in moderation. If it's more something you can get by without, I'd keep it as a treat even as much as 1x a day but again, I'd probably not be drinking lots of servings as that's not ideal for your health anyway.

[Kazzzz]

So you think sweetner may slightly sway boy? Or do you think its neutral? Is sweetener better for an alt girl sway then white sugar i guess is what I'm asking? I like using it like a cheat for replacing sugar I'm a sugar addicted boy mum lol. I use a little in my 2 coffees and 1 nightly alcoholic drink and if i bake something. Speaking of baking i baked some chocolate muffins using wholemeal flour, 100% cocoa powder, sweetner etc. I worked out the nutritional value of them and they are fine but is there anything i should watch out for when baking like anything in the cocoa, baking powder, baking soda etc? I remember people use to say cocoa sways boy. Maybe i should just make cheesy savoury muffins only.

[atomic sagebrush]

I do not know how or if sweetener sways. I doubt it does, but I have seen some people drinking absolutely insane levels of artificial sweetener getting pretty much exclusively boys. Now, I suspect that has way more to do with the control freakishness of these people who are willing to go to such an extreme, and nothing to do with the sweetener, but since I don't think it sways pink either, I very much prefer to see you guys using safe and sane levels of intake.

My answer was actually based on your concern that your blood sugar might rise after drinking it. So if you're having something that YOU are concerned may raise your blood sugar, have it with a meal.

Overthinking your sway to this extent will not help and will in fact very badly hurt your sway. Dietary amounts of cocoa is fine. Baking powder and soda in small amounts is fine. It is limits overall that matter. So stick in the limits and use your sense about how much you're really eating and how often and you'll do fine. No need to worry about these small details.

[atomic sagebrush]

oh and as for cocoa swaying blue, that's based on the old mineral diets. When we were first experimenting with the LE Diet, we worried about micronutrients in things like cocoa. But just like with fruit and veg, micronutrients in chocolate didn't seem to matter at all. We went from white chocolate only to milk chocolate and now people eat chocolate stuff all the time and our results are higher than ever. it just doesn't appear that these small details amount to anything. Only fortified foods and prenatal/multivitamins are to be avoided.

[Kazzzz]

Cool thanks yeah i go from relaxed to freaking out over some little thing then i over think it an feel all ocd about it. I'm trying to relax i burn lavender everyday an play music to try help me relax. On a positive note I'll have clomid in 2weeks time. I have a feeling i mite ovulate this month but I'll be skipping it to avoid my next baby sharing a birth month with 4 immediate family members and 1 niece lol plus I'll add in clomid with my first cycle.



Does this look like what other successful girl swayers ate?

Breakfast
Stir-fry veg with drrssing, 3 rice wafers each with hummus
Coffee with cream an sweetener

Lunch
Vege soup with 2 wholemeal bread, greek yoghurt an fruit, coffee with cream an sweetner

Dinner
Cheesy rice/vege bake or vegetable nachos or burritos with extra veges or salad, greek yoghurt with fruit, vodka with lemon or lime soda water an sweetener

This is basically what i eat everyday its a habit now but i dont mind switching things up on random days by eating something completely different i just work it in.

[atomic sagebrush]

Do you have the totals?? It's the right kinds of foods, but I can't sound off for sure without the totals as the limits are what matter the most.

[Kazzzz]

I know how much of each i can use. I have all the basics that i eat everyday written down and i add it up at the end of the day. I'm getting 60/60/2000-2200

I worry that I'm eating to many carbs it's probably just this anxiety but i do eat 3-6 rice wafters everyday each with a tsp of hummus on top, heaps of vegetables like potatoe an leek soup, i count cals on potatoes etc, 2x bread, 1cup of rice, more high carb vegetables with dinner which i count cals on, i have dressing and pre made coffee sachets a few times a day which all have a few carbs in. My rice wafers an hummus alone can be 20 to 40 carbs alone for the day but they are so necessary they are a staple for me everyday because they are filling. So i have a high carb at each meal breakfast is rice wafers, lunch is bread and dinner is rice an high carb veg but I've realised i need these otherwise I get to hungry. What do you call to much daily carbs?

[Kazzzz]

Also sorry one more thing is inulin sweetner ok on the alt? Its in my no added sugar ice-cream. It must be a fake sugar right not normal sugar since it says no added sugar on the tub?

[atomic sagebrush]

If you are in the limits with protein, fat, and calories, and limiting sugar and white refined carbs, you cannot be getting too many carbs. I don't even want you to think about carbs on this diet because they will take care of themselves. Somewhere in this thread I wrote a mathematical example of why that is. We do not count carbs on this diet and I want you to just put that all out of your mind completely.

Yep as far as we know the inulin sweetener is fine.

[atomic sagebrush]

Here is the explanation regarding the carbs again, from this thread (https://www.genderdreaming.com/forum/trying-to-conceive-a-girl/80991-le-pcos-diet-whole-grains-brown-rice-high-carb-intake.html?highlight=gluten+free) :

What we are finding is that a good chunk of people with all boys seem to have higher than average blood sugar. They have some underlying tendencies towards PCOS without having it full blown. So for most people, they do the standard LE Diet with the high carbs and they eat white carbs and sugar and their blood sugar goes up for a short time and then drops low. But those with tendencies towards PCOS, eat white carbs and sugar and their blood sugar doesn't drop as fast, meaning that they end up with high blood sugar for longer in the day (and this can also raise testosterone, tho we are no longer quite so convinced testosterone is doing anything for swaying)

We are getting such good results with the alternate diet that nowadays owhenever someone has an opposite or I have any reason to think they may have PCO-tendencies, even slightly, I always have them go to the alternate diet. Even if you don't need that diet, even if you have a normal insulin response and you got a boy for some other reason that had nothing to do with the standard diet, it will still sway pink, and that way I ensure that I am not missing anyone who does have some underlying PCO-tendencies (without needing to go in for expensive testing where we are not entirely sure what markers we'd be looking for anyway)

As it is now, the alternate diet is getting better results regardless. I would honestly have everyone switch to it but too many people end up losing tons of weight on it, and many many others cannot stick to it. So we carry on with both diets but I am very proactive about switching people over to the alt. diet whenever it seems even vaguely justified.

Now, let me explain more about the "high carbs sway pink, but PCOSers should cut carbs" notion. A higher proportion of your daily calorie intake coming from carbs rather than protein and fat has been shown to sway pink in animal studies. But for a good number of people, going onto the LE Diet (even the standard form) is NOT "high carbs" per se, and many people are eating fewer carbs than they were previously. To illustrate, I'll make up some numbers for you:

Blue moms tend to be big eaters and regularly consume 2500 cals a day. Let's say they ate 80 g protein and 80 g fat every day when not dieting. This ends up to be 320 cals from protein (4 cals per gram), 720 cals from fat (9 cals per gram), and they'd get the remaining 1400 cals from carbs (4 cals per gram) which is 350 g carbs. This seems like a lot but is right in the range of what is recommended by dieticians as a healthy carb intake for 2500 cal diet.

So let's say that same person now drops to 1500 cals a day. On the standard LE Diet they'd eat 40-50 g protein, 30-60 g fat, and on the alt. diet they'd eat 50-60 g protein, 50-60 g fat. I'm gonna ballpark this as 50 g protein and fat to make this easier. So this means they'd be getting 200 cals a day from protein, 450 cals from fat, and 850 cals from carbs. This ends up being 225 grams of carbs, less than they were eating before! So even though they feel like they're eating more carbs because it's a higher proportion of their overall food intake but they are really eating fewer carbs than they were to start out with. You get the benefits of the higher carb intake as a proportion of your diet for pink, and then additionally are getting the "lower nutrient intake" at the same time. Best of both worlds. And on the alternate LE Diet, you're eating even FEWER carbs because the whole grains, fruit, and veg have fiber that negates some of the carbs you eat.

I cannot go around calling the LE Diet "low fat, low protein, low carb" because if I did people would be starving themselves. But for the vast majority of people, they do end up eating less of all three. Most of the remainder of people end up eating about the same amount of carbs, lower protein and fat. (The numbers above obviously slide around depending on what a person's normal food intake is, but the principle stays the same) I have these limits set so you guys are swaying pink while still staying healthy enough to keep ovulating, and get and stay pregnant, but in many cases swayers are eating lower carb than you were when not dieting by virtue of the calorie restriction.

[Kazzzz]

Ok cool I'm sticking to limits but had 2 cheats this week which I'm trying to forget about because i feel bad about doing it. 1 day i had a tiny slice of chocolate cake with icing normally i would eat 2 large slices I've always not cared and ate what i want and when i want. The 2nd offence was with my sister's they had cookie's an cream ice-cream and pavlova so i had a tiny serving of each. I should be proud though because i restricted myself i could of easy had a bing feast with them we're all boy mums lol but all slim so we must have pcos tendencies. One sister has 2 boys and the other is pregnant with her first baby and its a boy. Then of course i have 3 boys.

Anyway I'm confused it says high carbs sway pink but on the alt we're trying to reduce them. Also is there a chance I'm eating to much high nutritional foods i literally eat vegetables for breakfast, lunch and dinner i fill up on them. Mostly carrots, potatoes, beans, mushrooms, broccoli, cauliflower, some bell peppers. I'll eat 1/2 a kg of mix Stir-fry vegetables for breakfast alone then vegetable soup for lunch an heaps of broccoli and cauliflower with dinner like half a plate full. Seems like a ton of high nutrients. I need it to fill up. I count cals of the starchy ones like potato an i don't eat much potatoes because of the high cals

[Kazzzz]

There's nothing wrong with having sugar free drinks right? I was thinking some sugar free cranberry juice or sprite would be nice in my nightly alcoholic drink or two

[atomic sagebrush]

There's nothing wrong with having sugar free drinks right? I was thinking some sugar free cranberry juice or sprite would be nice in my nightly alcoholic drink or two

Sorry to sound like a broken record here, but I truly believe you ask me the same question over and over again because you are trying to alleviate your anxiety and not because you don't actually know the answer. I don't care about answering the questions, I care because this will undermine your sway hugely.

Yes, artificial sweeteners are allowed on the alternate diet in drinks or wherever. You can have artificial sweeteners between meals as long as they don't have a lot of other calories from other stuff in them. Diet Sprite is fine, check the label on the cran juice just to be sure it doesn't have a lot of other calories in it, but it's likely also ok.

[atomic sagebrush]

Both of those things were fine. No worries, I hope you enjoyed them!

We see a strange number of all-sister families who have lots of boys. This is one of those things I'd study if I had the money and a team to assist with it. Is it PCO tendencies or some other thing, I honestly can't say but you certainly aren't alone in that boat.

Did you read the thing I posted above about the carbs?? When we say "higher carbs" we don't mean eating a massive ton of carbs (which would be lots of calories and all those foods would have a lot of nutrients, say if you were eating 4000 cals a day and 500 g carbs or whatever). We mean eating a higher PERCENTAGE of your day's food intake in carbs than from protein and fat. Look in that example I posted above: this means they'd be getting 200 cals a day from protein, 450 cals from fat, and 850 cals from carbs. Do you see how this person is eating more carbs than they are protein and fat, but: This ends up being 225 grams of carbs, less than they were eating before! So even though they feel like they're eating more carbs because it's a higher proportion of their overall food intake but they are really eating fewer carbs than they were to start out with. ...this person would still be eating far fewer carbs than they had been prior to restricting calories and eating a set amount of protein and fat!! PLUS on the alternate diet you're eating healthier carbs too that won't have as bad an effect on your blood sugar in terms of the PCOS-tendencies.

Again, while we started off thinking that the nutrients in fruit and veg may possibly sway, over time we saw that it wasn't the case and it was only protein, fat, calories, plus the very concentrated nutrients in fortified foods and multivitamins that we needed to keep an eye on. We have significantly better results with the alt diet where veryone is eating lots of fruit, veg, and whole grains than we do with the standard diet where people are not eating those nutrient dense foods.

I would not tell you these things if I thought they swayed in some other direction. Our good results are all in people I gave this exact same advice to.

[atomic sagebrush]

I gave you a more thorough explanation on the first page of this thread:


So above, you mention "high nutrient foods" like beans, nuts, fruit and veg, etc but the truth is you'd have to eat a mountain of most of those foods before you'd get up to the nutrition (because remember, beyond vitamins and minerals, calories, fat, and protein are also nutrients) in a Big Mac, fries, and a chocolate shake. You would probably explode before you could eat enough nuts (and nuts are among the most nutrient dense) to equal the amount of protein in a burger and fries...let alone something like broccoli, where you really would never get anywhere near as many calories unless you ate a whole truckload. Plus, it's about PORTIONS. People often come to me and say "I don't understand why I have all boys, I eat such terrible, low nutrient foods! Why, I often eat a whole package of Oreos at a sitting!" But a package of Oreos has a LOT of nutrition in it if you eat the whole thing! A reasonable meal even of "healthy" foods, say, lentil soup, pineapple, and a serving of yogurt would have by far and away less nutrients than a fast food meal. What we think of as "nutritious" or "healthy" foods doesn't mean that they have the absolute max of all nutrients vs. other foods, if that makes sense.

Everyone should be aware that just because the aforementioned foods are allowed, it doesn't mean that they're always equally good in terms of choices on the LE Diet. You absolutely could eat something like a Big Mac within the limits (I did this sometimes when I got my DD as we were traveling around and my husband was emphatically not supportive of swaying; he would have thought it was bizarre if I suddenly started ordering salads to eat while driving!) but the problem is on the PCOS-type diet you could NOT eat that daily because it has white buns, LOL. Secondly, at 540 calories, a Big Mac would be under your limits for the day, and then you'd be having to find 1000 cals, using only 30 g protein and fat for your other meals, which might be more difficult if you'd already burned half your fat and protein in one meal (since sometimes it can be hard to get enough calories without going overboard on fat and pro). And thirdly, in order to stick to the diet over the course of time, the more often you eat ONE big thing and then try to starve or suffer the rest of the day, that sets people up for failure, and a disruption in cycle. I do not want, and do not support, anyone eating only one meal a day on LE Diet. We have seen far too many people fall into terrible starvation diets, where they eat a huge chicken breast using up all their protein, then they eat cucumbers and iceberg lettuce to stay full, and gummy worms and marshmallows to try to get calories. That just isn't a safe, sane, balanced diet.

Some people do choose to skip over some of the old-school supposedly blue friendly foods.
That's why I mention things like celery, oats, large amounts of fresh garlic, etc in the LE Diet even though I don't believe any of those things sway (except if you were to eat supplemental forms of them, in the case of garlic tablets or oat supplements like bodybuilders use) is because they are not necessary really and they lift right out of people's diets. No one NEEDS oats, really, so if people want to give them up, no biggie.
But there is no reason to fear tomatoes, bananas, potatoes, and even avocado. They are fine and as we have continued to relax, more and more over time, on diet, sticking ONLY to limits, our results have gone up even though we eat more of those things than ever.

The difference between the higher limit of potassium on the mineral girl diets is roughly the same as the lower limit of potassium on the boy mineral diets. 2500 is the upper limit for pink, 3000 for blue (and some sources list 2500 for blue) This is about the amount
of potassium in a small bowl of strawberries. Does it make ANY sense at all that the amount of potassium in a small bowl of strawberries is making anyone have a boy or a girl?? It just makes NO SENSE at all and since we've given up on all that stuff our results have gotten higher than ever. Bananas are junk, you don't need em, if you want to leave them out just because that's fine, but tomatoes and potatoes are super handy foods on LE Diet - pasta sauces, tinned tomato, salsa, plus baked potatoes and potato salad and other similar potato dishes, these things make it SO much easier to get the right amount of cals with the proper amount of pro and fat as well!!! My daughter, in addition to being partially comprised of Big Macs, LOL, I like to joke is about 30% potato. And avocados, while not necessary, are also good ways to get fat and calories, without much protein, and can be a handy thing to fall back on if needed.

[atomic sagebrush]

This may also be helpful in terms of understanding what "fortified foods" really are and also the control freakishness of asking the same question repeatedly.



The stuff you're thinking of in terms of "avoiding fortified foods" are things with large amounts of added nutrients crammed into them like power bars, meal replacer shakes, breakfast cereal, where you're eating them and getting massive intake of ALL your day's nutrients - things that have the equivalent of a whole ground up vitamin pill in them. Not regular ordinary foods. Even foods some with minor fortification, like dairy and pasta - are fine in your sway. We just can't get away from that. Please note, that even if you had 6 cups of milk like I described above, that would still be less than 100% Vitamin D and well within pink range on potassium according to the mineral diets, if that is important to you, so having dairy foods is absolutely NOTHING like taking a multivitamin or eating fortified foods.

atomic tough love alert: What you are doing here, asking me the same question over and over again, IS control freakishness. I understand you guys tell yourself that if you just can only get your every doubt erased, eventually you'll get to some place where you'll relax, but it's the process of trying to have those doubts erased that is the issue. a) "I feel anxiety about my sway b) "I'll ask atomic about this, so I can alleviate my anxiety c) "atomic answered me, but did she really understand what I was asking? Maybe she misunderstood. Yikes, maybe she was wrong??? Now I feel anxious again" d) "I'll ask her again just to be absolutely SURE and then my anxiety will go away". But it never works because it's natural to feel anxious about sways, so you're back at square one again, repeating that process over and over again (and in many cases actually going back through old posts, or dredging up studies, trying to catch me in a mistake or a lie - not saying you are doing this, Kazzz, but some people do, and OVERWHELMINGLY they have more boys, even with extremely micromanaged "perfect" sways full of mindnumbing attention to detail)

This is exactly what I don't want you to do. Plus, it takes up my time answering the same question over and over again and your other thread is still sitting there unanswered since I've taken so much time with this.

Trying to micromanage your environment and alleviate your anxiety by overly focusing on details that are either totally meaningless or that you've already gotten an answer on is a big red flag for me, so I'm hoping that we can put this behind us now and you can accept the answer I've already given you.

[Kazzzz]

Yep i know its mostly this anxiety but i can't stop it. I'm feeling doubtful about my sway all together today because I'm thinking about food an my sway maybe 70% of everyday I'm not just relaxed like alot of other swayers i worry my ocd/anxiety will sway boy no matter what i do and everything is pointless because of this. I keep thinking maybe medication would be the only thing that could save my sway.

Are there any free (ish) alt sweet treats we can have? Like marshmallows are they still ok on the girl sway diet? Would love a go to sweet treat.

[Kazzzz]

I just want/need to get my period back asap so i can conceive asap. It's not easy being on a sway with ocd/anxiety. I've aways got fixated on things in my life whether its a diet or a job i give to much and go all in on it. (it) is always something different and right now its swaying but me going into it so hard is actually hurting my sway like you've said and I've known this since my first failed sway but how do i stop. I think i mite try the medication. I have it in my cupboard but i just never really take medications of any sort unless it absolutely necessary.

[atomic sagebrush]

On the alternate diet you can't have sugary stuff like marshmallows. Anything that's sweetened with sugar is not allowed. Is there something that's artificially sweetened that you might try??

If anxiety is truly something out of your control, then that's when you might consider the medication. Now, I personally don't like taking medication either, but if you really simply can't break out of what we call the "hamster wheel brain" mindset then it's something to consider. There's a big difference between people who are making color coded charts and daily schedules because they think "this will help my sway" and then I tell them to stop and they do stop, vs. someone who is simply compelled into a certain set of behaviors over and over again and honestly can't just stop doing that. If you're in the latter camp, then I'd definitely speak with your doc and see if it's something that can benefit you, not only for your sway but in your overall life!! Unchecked anxiety that manifests in compulsive behavior is life-ruining and it very well may be that you do need a bit of extra help moving past that, sway or no! :heart: Just food for thought.

[Kazzzz]

Yep I've had doctors etc offer me medication for anxiety many times I've tried some but never stuck to anything so jt is clinically a diagnosis on my medical chart. Not ocd but I'd say the anxiety is creating some ocd tendencies an it leaves me clinging to things and going all in type of thing. I have the medication so I'll think about it over the weekend.

There are no sweetened treats i have in mind but if i find any I'll let you know and it would be had with a meal not in between.

Ok back to the rice cakes I'm still thinking they are not good for a girl sway. I eat 6 rice cakes with stir fry veg with hummus an salad dressing for breakfast. My rice cakes are lightly salted plan brown rice cakes but the problem is is that they basically contain no fiber so just all carbs an rice cakes are bad for blood sugar so not recommend for people with diabetes even brown rice cakes. (i dont have diabetes) There are 30 carbs in 6 of my rice cakes and 2 grams of fiber. If you 1000% believe they are a great girl sway food can you tell me please. I'm wondering if a wholemeal wrap would be better since the fiber stops the conversion to sugar or something like that or maybe i should have a small serving of psyllium husk when eating them? I have experienced low blood sugar alot since having my middle child 5 years ago were i get shaky sweaty an weak and feel overwhelmingly hungry. I'm nit sure if thats a diabetic thing. My sister and auntie both with all boys also experience this monthly

[Kazzzz]

Also it looks like anxiety raises blood sugar maybe this is also working against me. Did you say you used stevia while girl swaying right?

[atomic sagebrush]

30 grams of carbs with 2 g fiber is ok. That's not bad at all. Keep eating them if that works for you. Less than two slices of whole wheat bread, and people eat that all the time. The wholemeal wrap is also good.

Please stop counting carbs or even thinking about them. It is not necessary and only gives you another detail to obsess over.

I don't think rice cakes are "a pink food" because there are no pink foods. They can be part of a pink sway diet but there's nothing magic about them, eat a whole grain wrap sometimes if you prefer, or whole grain bread. The limits are what matters and avoiding the sugar and white refined grains.

Adding fiber with carbs gains you nothing really. (only with fatty foods) The reason why we mention fiber with carbs is because carbs that are from fiber, don't "count" for net carbs. Not because the fiber helps your body regulate the carbs really, but just because food with fiber in it has fewer carbs than you think (thus rice cakes only have 28 g carbs.)

No, I didn't use stevia, that was another person who chimed into the thread.

Please don't worry about "anxiety raising blood sugar" or things like that. We don't know how any of this works. Just do what works for most people most of the time, stick in those limits and try not to go down the rabbitholes where you're worrying about things that don't mater and/or are not known.

[Kazzzz]

High carbs without fibre turns to sugar in the body or something like that an thats why diabetics have to be careful while eating rice cakes in particular. I'm going to ditch them an have a wrap instead just so I'm not thinking about it anymore. Its been on my mind like a red flag since i started swaying. Its ok i love wraps too. Thanks for you advice an support it means alot to me. Which sweetener did you use while swaying? What sweetener do most use? I'm scared that I'm cheating by using sweetener because i enjoy it as much as sugar lol i use it like sugar it tastes like sugar mainly the liquid and so i feel like I'm still having sugar. I'm learning to bake with it since baking sweets and eating sweets are my happy place. I hope this isn't counterintuitive

[Kazzzz]

I just checked and my wholemeal bread actually has 32 carbs an 6 fiber so its a little bit better and more filling an i won't worry about it anymore. I'm happy

[Kazzzz]

Are broccoli and cauliflower completely free? Even in high doses lol I've made a creamy broccoli and cauliflower soup it has 2 whole cauliflower in it one of the Collie flowers has been blended into the base and also 2 whole broccoli. I thought I'd check since last time with the tomatoe soup you told me to count cals since it was a ton of tomatoes not just a side or few slices etc

[atomic sagebrush]

No, it's not a red flag, what is a red flag is that you are still worrying over stuff like this.
You are completely, completely overthinking the sway diet. You aren't a diabetic, for a start. You don't even have diagnosed PCOS! Plus, you're low weight and breastfeeding, meaning you may actually NEED a bit more carbs than the average person on the alternate diet just to keep weight on and milk supply up. If you stick within the limits of the day you really cannot be getting more than the appropriate amount of carbs. (somewhere in this thread I have posted that explanation for you, using math to show how you're probably eating fewer carbs than you were before)

You can absolutely have the rice cakes. Or the wraps. Or both. People eat brown rice cakes, brown bread, brown wraps, and get good results with that. Even people with moderate to severe PCOS go onto the alternate LE Diet just the same as you are doing and have good results with it - we have seen people who have never had a regular cycle in their adult lives having regular cycles on this diet - so it just cannot be the case that you have to be so restrictive, it makes no sense and you're killing your sway trying to save it.

To explain the biology involved, if a diabetic eats a bunch of sugar and then takes a fiber supplement they will still have a very large problem on their hands. Fiber is not a fix for too many carbs; if it was, they'd give diabetics fiber instead of insulin. also, let me stress to you again that some rice cakes with 28 g net carbs is not a high carb meal in any way. Fiber can somewhat "slow down digestion" (and I use air quotes there because it's really less of a "thing" than people make it out to be, as anyone who has tried to diet by eating huge salads, oatmeal, brown rice, and bean dishes only to find themselves starving in an hour will attest) and because digestion ~may~ go slightly slower, then your blood sugar ~may~ (MAY! Depending on what else you eat!) rise slightly slower and because of the slower rise, your body starts to release insulin a little sooner, and thus your BS levels ~may~ not peak ~quite~ as high. Fiber also ~may~ help people feel full sooner and eat less at meals (again, I've found this much less of a thing than people claim). But fiber is not a magic fix for eating too many carbs, which was how your original question was phrased; if you eat a gob of empty carbs your blood sugar would rise high and fast no matter what. We take fiber for pink sways to possibly absorb some of the fat and fat soluble nutrients that may raise levels of sex hormones like estrogen and testosterone, but not because we think it has any beneficial effect on blood sugar levels.

The biggest reason, by far and away more important reason to use whole grains on the alternate LE Diet is because they simply aren't that OMG WOW type of carbs like sugar and white flour. Whole grains have complex carbs which take longer to break down - so your body handles them better even if they have the exact same amount of carbs in them as the refined products do. Additionally, whole grains have the fiber which is indigestible. Since your body can't digest it, it just moves through the digestive tract and can (just like with fiber supplements) absorb some of the fats from your diet, and additionally since they're indigestible we don't count the grams of carbs from fiber (which is why we subtract the fiber in the rice cakes) meaning that they actually have fewer carbs than they seem to.

I just used regular sugar when swaying. At that point we didn't know about having two different diets. I don't have any PCO tendencies that I know of though - my period is very regular, I have had blood sugar tests both when pregnant and not, and passed them, and while I did have a sway opposite I think that had more to do with me taking all the Ingender supplements plus prenatals with my sway. So I was probably able to handle more sugar/carbs than a person with PCO-tendencies could (I don't want anyone thinking "well atomic had sugar, that means I can too" because we're clearly seeing better results with the alternate diet than we are with the higher sugar standard one.)

Most people who use artificial sweetener probably use aspartame. Splenda is another option. I'm allergic to Splenda and I had gotten my 4th boy while using aspartame, so I didn't use any of them.

[atomic sagebrush]

Are broccoli and cauliflower completely free? Even in high doses lol I've made a creamy broccoli and cauliflower soup it has 2 whole cauliflower in it one of the Collie flowers has been blended into the base and also 2 whole broccoli. I thought I'd check since last time with the tomatoe soup you told me to count cals since it was a ton of tomatoes not just a side or few slices etc

Broccoli and cauliflower are free and unlimited, have as much as you want, no need to count them. You would need to count all the other stuff in your soup tho - milk, butter, flour, etc.

Tomatoes are different because firstly tomatoes aren't really vegetables but fruits (and technically you would count calories, but not protein and fat, it's just that there are so few calories in small amounts fresh tomatoes that we don't bother), and tomatoes have far more sugars in them than cauliflower and broccoli (because they're FRUITS not low carb veg really) and secondly because tomato sauce, paste, marinara, etc is not "just a bunch of blended up broccoli" but is highly concentrated, cooked/dehydrates so the water is boiled away, making it a lot more calorically dense than the equivalent amount of pureed broccoli would be.

[Kazzzz]

Yep i know I'm getting in my own I'm leaning towards taking this anxiety medication even just giving it a go for 6wks or something.

I really want my period to hurry up and come back I'd like to have our first attempt next month. I've reduced breastfeeding from 6 feeds in 24hrs down to 3 sometimes 4 feeds in 24hrs. Anything else i can do?

I had a beautiful breakfast this morning stir fry veges with a homemade stir fry sauce on brown rice, just thought I'd run my homemade Stir-fry sauce past you its
Soy sauce
Garlic
Ginger
Liquid sweetener
Vege stock powder
Chilly powder
Tapioca flour
I just whipped it up an was surprised how delicious it was. I added it up its only 22 cals but its 4.3 carbs is that too carby for a sause or fine once or twice a day? No added sugar in any of the ingredients I'll have to post it in the pcos chat so others can try it out its quick, easy, an super yum

[atomic sagebrush]

My point is not to beat you up over your anxiety, I'm trying to put it in perspective your worrying over these things. If you can reframe it in your mind as "this is a small thing that cannot matter, and me thinking about it so much is actually much much worse" I'm hoping it may help you to let some of it go without spending so much mental energy pondering it, if that makes sense!?

Your cycle will come back over time, cutting back on nursing is the most effective thing, but just make sure you're not starving yourself at the same time! It will be back before you know it and you can't get this time back with your nursling, so I'd just roll with that and carry on.

Yes, that sauce is fine. Please don't count carbs, it's not at all necessary. Sounds yum!!!

[Kazzzz]

Ok no counting carbs but just so i know the range of carbs i could say eat 7 slices of wholemeal bread each day and carbs would still be in the ok range so long as fat pro an cals are in check right? For my bread 7 slices would be 182. Looking at it now i think i can see how it would be hard to go over in carbs because you couldn't eat anything else. I would need to just eat bread all day lol so now i see that having some bread, some rice and some pitta breads all in the same day is fine an still ok for carb levels. Sorry thinking out loud now. I need a high carb at each meal eitger a serve of brown rice or 2 slices of wholemeal vread or 2 wholemeal pitta or whraps etc and I'm trying to tell myself thats perfectly fine. By carb i mean bready stuff or rice not high carb veg.

[Kazzzz]

I only ask because i feel like I'm eating to much since rice ab bread are so fulling and bloating they make you feel like you've eaten to much although my meals are large lol and I'm eating either bread or rice with all 3 of my meals

[Kazzzz]

This is the last time i ask about sweetener! Would you say most mums with successful girl sways and also mums currently swaying girl used/are using either aspartame or splender or no sweetner at all? I don't want to risk my sway by using a sweetener moderately but it's amazing i love it lol. I saw your post were you had your son while using a moderate amount of daily sweetner. I know there was most likely other bigger swaying things but still makes me wonder if sweetener mite sway boy if in some woman the body sees it as sugar and acts like it is. I saw online somewhere how sweetner can trick our brains into thinking its sugar because its sweet an i wonder if the body hears the same signal for sugar when your actually tasting sweetener. Yep I'm over thinking sweetener. I over think everything. I guess thats my ocd tendency at play

[atomic sagebrush]

I will repost the longer explanation I gave where I show why it's impossible to go over on carbs but long story short, if you're eating a set amount of calories, and a certain amount of those calories HAVE TO BE 50-60 g protein and fat each, you just can't be going over on carbs even if u ate nothing in addition to that pro and fat BUT rice cakes or whatever. It's just mathematically impossible.

If you are counting protein, fat, and calories and are falling in the limits, you are not eating too much.

[atomic sagebrush]

I cannot track things to that level. There are a zillion different things we might track, but the more things we track, the greater the likelihood that we'd end up with very small sample sizes with 10-12 people in them and then just one lucky or unlucky sway in those groups could make something that wasn't swaying look like it was, or vice versa. And tracking things in combination would be even more impossible. There would be no way for me to know what everyone meant when they said they had "some" or "a lot". It would only add confusion and the swaying stats are confusing enough as it is. I prefer that our statistics are very clearcut, only tracking things that are OBVIOUS yes or no and not some vague "some of this and some of that and this other thing but only on Thursday" kind of thing. They do this complicated tracking on Ingender and it simply makes their statistics complete garbage, with people saying things like "I checked the stats and I see people who wear cranberry perfume, while standing on one foot, in months with the letter R in them, while eating oysters but only oysters that had pearls in them, and they also got struck by lightning at the same time, and their husband has only one testicle, have 100% girls" even tho there were only 2 people who did that bizarre combination. Then people drive themselves insane trying to do those things! It makes no sense and I don't want to encourage anyone to fall into that mindset by tracking so many things that the truth gets drowned in a lot of meaningless detritus, you know?

To give an example, we actually kept stats on "some" and "a lot" of aspartame (and most people who do aspartame also do Splenda part of the time anyway) over my objections (since "some and a lot" have no scientific definition) and here's the result:

Aspartame - none 74
Total success: 55
Success %: 74.32%

Aspartame - a little 48
Total success: 34
Success %: 70.83%

Aspartame - some 48
Total success: 51
Success %: 73.91%

Aspartame - lots 41
Total success: 27
Success %: 65.85%

So a lot of aspartame was only 65 but then a little aspartame was 73% and then some aspartame was back down to 70% and then none was up at 75%??? This makes no SENSE, there is no trend here, if there was a trend the % would all be lined up in order of use and would make sense - less would be higher, more would be worse. But this is just random! And what does "a little" and "some" and "a lot" even MEAN??? What one person called "some" another person called "a little" and another person called "a lot". I know for a fact because somewhere on here we discussed it, that some people were answering "a little" when they were having it once a week, another said "a little" when they had 1 serving a day. And this doesn't even get into the idea that the people using aspartame vs. those who aren't, are not random groups, and are very possibly coming into swaying with different sways overall. I just can't give you these types of answers, they're impossible to know.

I already explained to you the reason why it is fine to have a safe and sane intake of artificial sweetener. It doesn't work the way you think it does with blood sugar. If you want to leave it out, that is totally fine, but if it's helping you stick with your sway, it's also totally fine.

[atomic sagebrush]

It is mathematically impossible, if you are eating in the limits of the alternate diet, that you are getting too many carbs.


Here is the explanation regarding the carbs again, from this thread (https://www.genderdreaming.com/forum/trying-to-conceive-a-girl/80991-le-pcos-diet-whole-grains-brown-rice-high-carb-intake.html?highlight=gluten+free) :

What we are finding is that a good chunk of people with all boys seem to have higher than average blood sugar. They have some underlying tendencies towards PCOS without having it full blown. So for most people, they do the standard LE Diet with the high carbs and they eat white carbs and sugar and their blood sugar goes up for a short time and then drops low. But those with tendencies towards PCOS, eat white carbs and sugar and their blood sugar doesn't drop as fast, meaning that they end up with high blood sugar for longer in the day (and this can also raise testosterone, tho we are no longer quite so convinced testosterone is doing anything for swaying)

We are getting such good results with the alternate diet that nowadays owhenever someone has an opposite or I have any reason to think they may have PCO-tendencies, even slightly, I always have them go to the alternate diet. Even if you don't need that diet, even if you have a normal insulin response and you got a boy for some other reason that had nothing to do with the standard diet, it will still sway pink, and that way I ensure that I am not missing anyone who does have some underlying PCO-tendencies (without needing to go in for expensive testing where we are not entirely sure what markers we'd be looking for anyway)

As it is now, the alternate diet is getting better results regardless. I would honestly have everyone switch to it but too many people end up losing tons of weight on it, and many many others cannot stick to it. So we carry on with both diets but I am very proactive about switching people over to the alt. diet whenever it seems even vaguely justified.

Now, let me explain more about the "high carbs sway pink, but PCOSers should cut carbs" notion. A higher proportion of your daily calorie intake coming from carbs rather than protein and fat has been shown to sway pink in animal studies. But for a good number of people, going onto the LE Diet (even the standard form) is NOT "high carbs" per se, and many people are eating fewer carbs than they were previously. To illustrate, I'll make up some numbers for you:

Blue moms tend to be big eaters and regularly consume 2500 cals a day. Let's say they ate 80 g protein and 80 g fat every day when not dieting. This ends up to be 320 cals from protein (4 cals per gram), 720 cals from fat (9 cals per gram), and they'd get the remaining 1400 cals from carbs (4 cals per gram) which is 350 g carbs. This seems like a lot but is right in the range of what is recommended by dieticians as a healthy carb intake for 2500 cal diet.

So let's say that same person now drops to 1500 cals a day. On the standard LE Diet they'd eat 40-50 g protein, 30-60 g fat, and on the alt. diet they'd eat 50-60 g protein, 50-60 g fat. I'm gonna ballpark this as 50 g protein and fat to make this easier. So this means they'd be getting 200 cals a day from protein, 450 cals from fat, and 850 cals from carbs. This ends up being 225 grams of carbs, less than they were eating before! So even though they feel like they're eating more carbs because it's a higher proportion of their overall food intake but they are really eating fewer carbs than they were to start out with. You get the benefits of the higher carb intake as a proportion of your diet for pink, and then additionally are getting the "lower nutrient intake" at the same time. Best of both worlds. And on the alternate LE Diet, you're eating even FEWER carbs because the whole grains, fruit, and veg have fiber that negates some of the carbs you eat.

I cannot go around calling the LE Diet "low fat, low protein, low carb" because if I did people would be starving themselves. But for the vast majority of people, they do end up eating less of all three. Most of the remainder of people end up eating about the same amount of carbs, lower protein and fat. (The numbers above obviously slide around depending on what a person's normal food intake is, but the principle stays the same) I have these limits set so you guys are swaying pink while still staying healthy enough to keep ovulating, and get and stay pregnant, but in many cases swayers are eating lower carb than you were when not dieting by virtue of the calorie restriction.

[atomic sagebrush]

Just to clarify what "mixed evidence" means, it means that there are a LOT of studies that find artificial sweetener doesn't have any effect on blood sugar levels or that it's very nominal and unimportant.
I'd not worry about that 50 cal drink first thing in the morning. Now, if you were drinking it every 15 minutes thru the day, then yes that would be more of an issue and should be limited.

There are studies with mixed evidence on all the artificial sweeteners. Try to keep in mind that we honestly don't know how swaying works anyway; higher blood sugar is just a theory and I hate to see you guys focusing on theories that aren't really even proven, because even if they're 100 percent true, we still don't know the mechanics of it. Tons of people have used some artificial sweetener when swaying pink and gotten girls, so I know it is not a magic blue bullet, but at the same time I've seen people who are using the insane scary high amounts getting boys (now I suspect that's the control freakishness of people who do that, and not the artificial sweetener itself...but I don't know that.)

If it helps you stick to the diet overall, then I'd use it in moderation. If it's more something you can get by without, I'd keep it as a treat even as much as 1x a day but again, I'd probably not be drinking lots of servings as that's not ideal for your health anyway.

[atomic sagebrush]

the rest of the reply


I do not know how or if sweetener sways. I doubt it does, but I have seen some people drinking absolutely insane levels of artificial sweetener getting pretty much exclusively boys. Now, I suspect that has way more to do with the control freakishness of these people who are willing to go to such an extreme, and nothing to do with the sweetener, but since I don't think it sways pink either, I very much prefer to see you guys using safe and sane levels of intake.

My answer was actually based on your concern that your blood sugar might rise after drinking it. So if you're having something that YOU are concerned may raise your blood sugar, have it with a meal.

Overthinking your sway to this extent will not help and will in fact very badly hurt your sway. Dietary amounts of cocoa is fine. Baking powder and soda in small amounts is fine. It is limits overall that matter. So stick in the limits and use your sense about how much you're really eating and how often and you'll do fine. No need to worry about these small details.

[Kazzzz]

Thanks so much ok so I'll continue having some sweetener but I'll try not to use it. I use 2 aspartame tabs in each of my 2 daily coffee's 1/2 tsp liquid sweetener in my sweet/spicy sauce few times a week, its also in my glass of sugar free peach iced tea an sprite zero that i mix my vodka into each night, and its my sugar free coffee sachets an ice cream. Is that considered alot? Or is it just when you add sweetener to things yourself?

How do you feel about girl sway mums using weight watchers sweets like cake mix/pudding/jelly etc? I did notice that there cakes etc have wheat flour in them but if they don't have sugar or wheat flour are they ok? I'm thinking it would be the best cheat if I'm going to say have a slice of cake since it will have the flour but not the sugar so its 50% better then a normal slice of cake right?

[Kazzzz]

1# Also are most successful girl sway mums and ones currently swaying using salt as normal? I use salt on every savoury meal.

#2 And did you say to use cows milk with caution even if within limits because its high in vitamins/minerals? Sorry I'll go back an reread our private messages from when i first contacted you

[atomic sagebrush]

my recommendation is 2-3 12-16 ounce servings per day. That is more than I would recommend, but some people do have that much.

Yes, whenever you ingest artificial sweetener, it counts, whether you add it yourself or you get it in a mix.

The problem with things like cake mix and pudding is it would often have other stuff in it (such as skim dairy) that it's best for you to avoid. If you want, I can take a look at the product you want to use and tell you if it's all right or not.

[atomic sagebrush]

Practically everyone has given up the salt restriction.

Dairy within limits is fine. Limits, limits, limits - only fortified foods and vitamins need to be avoided within the limits.

Actually, you've asked me the dairy question several times just in this thread, and I reposted the replies in this thread too to help you recall what we already discussed. This is one of those questions that feels really OCD/repetitive to me.

[atomic sagebrush]

From an earlier post:


An answer I posted in another thread, reposting here to have all my replies in one place:

Kazzz, I feel like we are having some sort of fundamental miscommunication here, LOL. I promise you that I would not be telling you over and over again that dairy is ok within limits if it wasn't ok. My answer isn't going to change. I am not missing anything, I completely understand your question, and I repeat: Full fat dairy within limits is and always has been ok on the alternate PCOS-type LE Diet. Avoid skim and part skim because the concentrated milk sugars in it aggravate PCOS. Our good results with the alternate style LE Diet are in people all of whom did exactly this.

YES, you can have milk, yogurt, cheese, etc, any dairy food, within limits, as much as you want. Within limits. Now, eating a massive amount of dairy alone may not be the best way to get adequate calories, fat, and protein on the diet (because you'll likely quickly go over on fat and protein, then have a lot of calories left to eat and you've used up your fat and protein) but that is a separate problem of PRACTICALITY and not because "too much dairy ruins my pink sway". As long as you're in the limits you can have dairy without limits, but keep in mind you need to be getting ENOUGH food as well and there is more than just dairy to think about.

To illustrate: drinking six cups of milk, for example, will put you at 48 g protein, 48 g fat, but only 1280 calories. How will you get up to the 1500-1800, or even beyond that to 1800-2000 (since that is what most people breastfeeding need) because now you've spent so much of your protein and fat on milk?? It's also not a balanced diet (you'd be perilously low in iron and Vitamin C, for starters), would not satisfy you at all, may upset your stomach, and would be so darn borint it would very likely set you up for cheating. But that doesn't mean you can't have dairy within the limits, it means that focusing too heavily on ANY one thing is never a good approach.

The stuff you're thinking of in terms of "avoiding fortified foods" are things with large amounts of added nutrients crammed into them like power bars, meal replacer shakes, breakfast cereal, where you're eating them and getting massive intake of ALL your day's nutrients - things that have the equivalent of a whole ground up vitamin pill in them. Not regular ordinary foods. Even foods some with minor fortification, like dairy and pasta - are fine in your sway. We just can't get away from that. Please note, that even if you had 6 cups of milk like I described above, that would still be less than 100% Vitamin D and well within pink range on potassium according to the mineral diets, if that is important to you, so having dairy foods is absolutely NOTHING like taking a multivitamin or eating fortified foods.

atomic tough love alert: What you are doing here, asking me the same question over and over again, IS control freakishness. I understand you guys tell yourself that if you just can only get your every doubt erased, eventually you'll get to some place where you'll relax, but it's the process of trying to have those doubts erased that is the issue. a) "I feel anxiety about my sway b) "I'll ask atomic about this, so I can alleviate my anxiety c) "atomic answered me, but did she really understand what I was asking? Maybe she misunderstood. Yikes, maybe she was wrong??? Now I feel anxious again" d) "I'll ask her again just to be absolutely SURE and then my anxiety will go away". But it never works because it's natural to feel anxious about sways, so you're back at square one again, repeating that process over and over again (and in many cases actually going back through old posts, or dredging up studies, trying to catch me in a mistake or a lie - not saying you are doing this, Kazzz, but some people do, and OVERWHELMINGLY they have more boys, even with extremely micromanaged "perfect" sways full of mindnumbing attention to detail)

This is exactly what I don't want you to do. Plus, it takes up my time answering the same question over and over again and your other thread is still sitting there unanswered since I've taken so much time with this.

Trying to micromanage your environment and alleviate your anxiety by overly focusing on details that are either totally meaningless or that you've already gotten an answer on is a big red flag for me, so I'm hoping that we can put this behind us now and you can accept the answer I've already given you.

[Kazzzz]

Ok the next time I'm in the store i will take a pic of the product I've been looking at buying an see what you reckon. I would only have it as a "safer" treat.

Whats your take on using almond flour instead of wholemeal? It's much lower in carbs then both wholemeal an white flour. It is more nutritionally dense but if that doesn't matter? I'm thinking about using it especially for my baking because wholemeal doesn't work for sweet baking lol I'd make a muffin or a biscuits or a mug cake so just 1 serving when i need something sweet. I ask on the back of having a blueberry muffin at the local cafe with my sister for breakfast and I feel bad when i sweet cheat because i really think there's something in the sugar that really sways boy with my body. So if i could bake a treat that actually tasted great or have a serving of weight watchers then i wouldn't ever touch white sugar I've had 3-4 sweet treats over the last 5 months. I'd rather not cheat with white sugar but its the only thing feel like I'm missing. Also I'll reduce my sweetener intake because i used this same amount with my last failed sway but also was doing empty carbs original le back then also. But sweetener makes me feel horrible and its so bad for us anyway. I'll just use it in make sweet cheat baking.

Last thing my tinned chicken has 6g of sugar per serve I'm guessing that's too much? It is in a sweet chilli sauce. This meal makes me happy lol so if its ok once a day I'll continue.


So in all that my questions are

1. Can we use almond flour to completely replace wholemeal flour? Or just for sweet cheat baking?

2. Is 6g of sugar too much in 1 item of food.

[atomic sagebrush]

Almond flour is fine within limits.

Sugars that are in sauces are fine. We don't worry about those for most people (only people who have pretty severe PCOS have to worry about stuff like that). If that is working for you that's fine.

[Kazzzz]

My dinner times are running late is that ok? Do i still have a big enough fast? Dinner starts around 8pm an ends 9pm then breakfast starts somewhere between 10.30am and 11.30am. Is that ok?

Also I've looked into sweetener a bit an it looks like over time it can cause ir. I wonder if it was avoided on the girl sway if success would go up. Maybe woman on the pcos/alt should avoid artificial sweetener due to the ir issue. Anyway i don't like the idea of drinking stuff in the morning that breaks my small fast i think personally I'd be more content with black coffee half a teaspoon of unsweetened coco powder an a little cream i read online that's a good option while fasting. Whats your opinion on this?

[Kazzzz]

Also when should we be consciously aware of sugar? Or do we not look at sugar content in anything an just stick to limits? Do we have to be checking sugar in our alcohol? Like if its a premix or if we mix say vodka with a juice? I mixed 1tbsp of sugar into my families curry tonight it made 6 servings and i only had 1 so hopefully that type of thing is ok. I would only add sugar to homemade curry no other dish. I know things like tomato sauce a very high in sugar. I'm drawn to sugar like a moth to a flame and use to consume sickening amounts of tomato sause and other things containing a ton of sugar.

[atomic sagebrush]

Meal times do not matter as long as you're getting 12-16 hours overnight fast. You need to let go of all small details because of the control freakishness.

2-3 reasonable servings of artificial sweetener for the short time period we are using them do not cause insulin resistance. They are invaluable to a lot of women who, like you, need a little something sweet now and then. Plus, there are many people who are super huge believers in the artificial sweeteners for their sway, and I only "ban" things that are either outwardly harmful to sways or health. If I do not allow people to use a safe and sane amount of artificial sweetener, these people simply go behind my back and do the massive, possibly blue-friendly, and certainly not ideal for health amounts. I take a lot of factors into account when I make recommendations for sways, compliance is definitely one of them, and it means I continue to keep a lot of things I don't particularly believe in, in the mix for swaying.

I think you need to make a decision and roll with it because what you're doing with mulling over these minor details that do not matter at all, for weeks at a time, doing tons of research and thinking about it as much as you are, is the biggest predictor of failed sways.

If you want black coffee, that's fine. Totally at your discretion. As I already said, I don't think the artificial sweetener does anything at all to help sways, fine to leave it out or keep it in.

[atomic sagebrush]

Ok. Again, I've answered this question repeatedly, and I'm really at a loss here because you're completely killing your sway doing this to yourself.

Avoid sugar in things that are clearly sugary, like cake, candy, soda pop, presweetened things like "margarita in a can" or a sugary wine cooler or whatever. Juice should be avoided anyway because it's a highly concentrated form of fruit/veg. If you need a mixer with your drink use something else. but you shouldn't worry about alcohol itself, only the sugary drinks it might be mixed with.

Things like sauces you DO NOT count the sugar (also, yogurt, don't worry about the sugar in full fat yogurt). It's fine to add a bit of sugar to curry, to marinara, etc. There are a very few people, VERY FEW, who have severe PCOS (by which I mean, they don't ovulate on their own or their cycles are very long, they need medication to ovulate/conceive, plus a host of other PCOS-type symptoms) who may need to cut stuff like that out, but that is not you.

[Kazzzz]

Ok thank you I'm trying but its an inner battle. Could you imagine what its like a day in my shoes i tend to nit pick things alot an go way into things too much. I'm scared no diet will give me a girl with my strong ocd personality.

Can i use sugar free cranberry juice for my 1-2 vodkas a day or is that too high fruit concentrate? What do people mix with their top shelf? I tried a shot of vodka straight gross never again. I think if i drink my 2 cups of artificially sweetened mixs an also have artificial sweetener in my 2 coffees everyday then that mite put me into the (lots) category. I'm going to go back to wine to take the stress out of it for me.

Have you told people they can eat onions an garlic now? Are they still being avoided by most or eaten by most?

[Kazzzz]

Wow I'm so upset i just realised I've been eating skim milk greek yoghurt for the last 2.5 months :rolleyes:
Is it the end of the world? It feels like it is. I could literally cry. Been eating about 500g a week. I'm disappointed. I hope i haven't destroyed my sway. It also has other things in it like cream an milk but the first ingredient says skim milk then cream then milk etc. When i read it i almost fell over i assumed it waa full fat silly mistake.

Is it ok if i eat yoghurt with all the live cultures added? I just brought a new one with full fat milk/cream in it but it has all the good cultures added in. I'll start eating this new stuff from now on.

[atomic sagebrush]

I actually CAN imagine because most of us with all boys, myself very much included, have these tendencies. I promise that they're overcomable because so many of us HAVE overcome them, by just reasoning our way through them again and again. I strongly suggest you just pick a plan and stick with it, without doing any more research, thinking, etc etc etc because what you're doing with this is 1000 million times worse for swaying than diet cranberry juice.

Yes, if you'd like to use sugar free juice as a mixer, you can. When I say "avoid juice" I was referring to the way you couched it above, which was in a question about sugar and juice overall, not a small amount of artificially sweetened juice as a mixer with alcohol. There is very little nutrition in the small amount of diet cran that you'd mix with alcohol, it's fine.

Again, the serving size on the fake sugar is 2-3 servings of 12-16 OUNCES a day. This means three diet drinks total - 36-48 ounces. It's plenty. We are not measuring in cups. Cups have about 8 ounces in them. So if you are having 2 cups for 16 ounces total, that is well within the limit. People are drinking into the hundreds of ounces of diet drinks (which is insane and not allowed here) and you are absolutely not having "lots". None of this detail is necessary, and all of it is killing your sway.

Yes, I tell people all the time they can eat onions and garlic and I have for many, many years. Our good results are in people eating them. I would not have told you that you could have them otherwise.

The skim milk in the yogurt is not the end of the world. NO one food is ever the end of the world. Buy another one now, but because it's got the fat from the cream in it, it won't have the negative effects of just skim dairy alone. It is fine.

The live cultures are fine. When we talk about "probiotics" we mean probiotic pills which don't dissolve till they reach your intestines. The live cultures in yogurt are mostly killed by the stomach acid and are fine. People eat yogurt all the time when swaying and get girls with that.

[Kazzzz]

Ok cool thanks I'll work on letting s### go one by one. I think I'm improving slowly.

[Kazzzz]

I converted it 36-48 ounces is 4.5 cups to 6 cups a day. If i knew just how much that was i wouldn't of stressed it. Thanks

[Kazzzz]

Can we have sugar free marshmallows and lollies as a treat? I'll buy a few things and some weight watchers baking premix then I'll run them by you. Also in the diet cranberry i was using 1 whole cup mixed with 2 shots of vodka for a few days there it was like my dessert lol.

[Kazzzz]

Was just wondering if a small amount of white flour is ok added to Gravy etc or are we better off to use something else like tapioca flour, anything other then white?
And is Decaf as effective as coffee with caffeine? I see they work the same on ir

[atomic sagebrush]

Can we have sugar free marshmallows and lollies as a treat? I'll buy a few things and some weight watchers baking premix then I'll run them by you. Also in the diet cranberry i was using 1 whole cup mixed with 2 shots of vodka for a few days there it was like my dessert lol.

If you'd like you can have those, sure.

Yes that level of cran juice intake is fine.

You can use white flour as a thickening agent, absolutely. You don't need to carry things that far and avoid stuff like that.

We don't know. We have people use caffeinated coffee just in case there is something pink about the caffeine, but many people do use decaf instead and I think it's plausible that it's the coffee itself, not the caffeine, that sways

[Kazzzz]

Thanks for that thats much easier i think i just need to loosen up a bit in a few areas but I've definitely begun doing that.
Is normal ice-cream ok like 1 serve a day it has normal sugar in it but it's lower sugar then most others 9grams per serve just as a treat i wouldn't eat it more then once a day. The sugar free ice-cream is like 10x the price of regular. When you say small amounts of sugar in things is ok does that include ice-cream? Strawberry jam? Just once a day. Jam would be 1 serve split between 2 wholemeal toast etc.
On other note my little one has randomly started sleeping through the night so I'm only feeding him twice a day now once before his nap and once before bed.

[Kazzzz]

Also is plain salted popcorn a good snack if within limits? My boy mum side is trying to find its way back (snacks) lol so I'm trying to negotiate with good choices an not being overly strict. Like i went over in fat yesterday by 6 grams but to me thats a good sign it shows that I'm not as uptight as i was but at the same time its not something i will let happen to often I'm sticking to the limits 90% an my weight is holding.

[atomic sagebrush]

No, you cannot have ice cream with real sugar in it unless it's a once in a while treat.

No, "small amounts of sugar" I was talking about are not in things like ice cream. Ice cream is a sugary treat like cookies, cakes, candy, etc.

The sugar I'm talking about is in other foods like sauces (remember how you asked me about sugar in spaghetti sauce?)whole grain bread, and yogurt. Things that are NOT TREATS but have a bit of extra added sugar in them are ok. Avoid treats. We include yogurt in here because finding yogurt without sugar that is still full fat is basically impossible.

Jam isn't ideal but it's ok in small amounts, it would be best if you could find fruit spread instead I suppose but it's hardly worth the fuss since you'd eat very little.

Yes, popcorn within limits is fine but it needs to be with a meal.

[Kazzzz]

Ok got it.
I don't feel comfortable with taking artificial sweetener i know I've said it before and i know you never said i needed to but i have a sweet tooth so it keeps me on the diet if i can have a sweetened something once a day also i couldn't have coffee in my sway if it was without any sweetness an i want coffee in my sway for sure. So I'll have my natural healthy sweetened ice-cream an my stevia sweetened mocha sachets as my sweetened things. When i have them in the house. I kept going back and forth with this because its an inner battle between my sweet tooth an hating artificial sweeteners I hate them so I'll completely stop them. I know I've asked before but did you use any sweet stuff in your sway? I think you said you avoided sugar but didn't use artificial sweetener? I can't remember sorry. What sweet stuff can i put in my coffees when i don't have my Stevia sweetened coffee sachets in the house? So 2-4 times a day? Is it just white sugar thats a no no. Can we use honey or maple syrup? Stevia? Have you seen stevia used tons in girl sways? So it 100% doesn't sway boy? I'd like to use a little stevia, honey or maple syrup in my coffees. This would make me happier so long as its not going to damage my sway that is.

[Kazzzz]

Also my friend had 2 girls no boys different dads

With the 1st she

Ate like a sparrow
Did drugs
Smoked
Drank
Lots of caffeinated coffee
Low body fat

2nd (7 years later)
Ate like a sparrow
No drugs
No alcohol
No smoking
Lots of decaf coffee
Low body fat

Its so interesting looking at people's lifestyles an their childrens genders lol

[atomic sagebrush]

At the point in time when I was swaying (back in 2011, I had my daughter in 2012) we didn't know about the sugar/PCOS thing and I've never had any PCO tendencies anyway, always had a regular cycle and always eat tons of sweets. I had plenty of regular sugar and I didn't use artificial sweetener at all since I got my 4th boy while using it and I just wasn't interested in bothering with it any more. I even had a cheat and used sugar in my morning coffee because I just wasn't willing to give it up, since I already knew I could be miserable and deprived and get a boy anyway.

Honey and maple syrup are sugar.

Stevia, we do not know how it sways, and I would never say anything 100% ever anyway. I don't believe in "alkalinity" but at the same time without a study, I can't say definitively how anything sways. If it helps you stick to the diet, and if it helps you snap out of this mental cycle you're in with these artificial sweeteners (which I promise is by far worse for your sway than anything you ingest) then it makes sense to include it.

I think you need to pick something and stop thinking about it.

[Kazzzz]

I know right my brain is hard wired ocd but it fluctuates one week i don't care the next week i need to fine tune my sway down to the very last detail. What doesn't change is my hate for artificial sweeteners so they are gone. I've actually been drinking my coffees just with almond milk or cows milk which are both sweetened a bit so i tell myself the milk has sugar in it an so that gets me through mentally an that little bit of sugar in the milk actually helps alot it beats black coffee any day. Some times i add a little sugar free drinking chocolate which has erythritol, cocoa, Stevia extract. I'm just telling myself a little bit of anything already added is ok but I'm not ADDING anything honey, sugar, sweetner, maple syrup, etc and it completely takes the thinking out of it.

I will buy some fruit spread that has no sweetener or sugar in it its just 95% fruit and I'll mix a small amount (1 serve) into my after dinner yoghurt so i feel like I'm having a dessert. Apart from that I'm doing well. Still waiting for my period to return I've noticed more cm since my son started sleeping through the night an is only breastfeeding 2 times in 24hrs so hopefully thats a sign that my fertility is returning slowly.

[atomic sagebrush]

It's absolutely fine to vary by the day and week and month too. I find that the people who are just going with the flow have a lot easier time sticking to diet than those who are really consumed with worrying about everything they eat (people who get too insanely restrictive often end up in that binge-purge cycle, which is terribly destructive for health and sway, because they have a moment of weakness and eat everything in the house because they won't bend an inch on a super strict diet to help them stick to it in the long term), and they have better results with their sways too. Flexibility is our friend here so if you want chocolate sometimes and it helps you stick with the diet mostly, that's great.

:agree: the yogurt sounds like a good solution! FX for your cycle resuming soon!

[Kazzzz]

Cool thanks for that.
Is it ok if i have coffee with a splash of milk and 1 tsp of Stevia like 5-6 times a day first thing in the morning /between meals etc? I've taken a liking to it and it really helps me get through the day because I've been finding myself feeling hungrier lately an tons of coffees helps so much both caffeine an non. I just hope like the old swayers use to say i hope Stevia doesn't sway boy. But how could it unless its got some magic vitamin or mineral in it that we don't yet know about and its a major boy swayer. I think the high coffee intake will be more of a strong girl sway then the stevia so I'll keep telling myself that lol I'm not ingesting any other sweetner or sugary additive.

[Kazzzz]

I know you say 2-3 12-16 ounce servings per day but does that include stevia since its not an artificial sweetener? So thats 4-6 cups an about what I'm doing daily with the stevia anyway

[atomic sagebrush]

That's what I did and what most people do. Have coffee or diet pop between meals (some people chew sugarfree gum) and then stick to the diet.

The stevia was supposedly "alkalinizing" but none of that pH stuff works and is completely unscientific. I have my full debunking of pH here: https://www.genderdreaming.com/forum/gender-swaying-general-discussion/11684-ph-pickle.html

[atomic sagebrush]

I know you say 2-3 12-16 ounce servings per day but does that include stevia since its not an artificial sweetener? So thats 4-6 cups an about what I'm doing daily with the stevia anyway

that was for aspartame only. I don't have any guidelines for the other sweeteners really.

[Kazzzz]

Great thats just great I'm way more at ease with the stevia and it is giving me a yummy bridge between meals which to me feels like I'm having a snack it also helps ne forget about food. I'm becoming that person that lives on coffees through out the day an this was never me lol that big change should also help my sway.

[Kazzzz]

Trying not to be particular lol but would a splash of milk be 3 tbsp roughly? I'm using mostly almond milk so that to me makes me feel better since its way less in everything compared to cows milk.

My almond milk 1 cup
4 fat
2 pro
66 cal
Even less sugar an carbs but can't remember exactly

And my cows milk 1 cup
9 fat
8 pro
157 cal

Is it right that almond milk gives a bit more leeway? I'm being silly probably but i feel like I'm cheating with all these splash of milk/stevia coffees through out the day lol it feels too good to be true haha. I read online just now that almond milk is best while fasting an 1/3 cup max also under 50cals. Is that your thoughts too? I'm actually having about 3 tbsp of unsweetened almond milk which is 40mils I'm not measuring it although that nagging boy mum inside would like too. I just want to run stuff by you so i stop thinking about it and i feel like my splash of milk mite be way off lol like maybe your splash of milk is like 1 tbsp.

[atomic sagebrush]

I don't want you to measure the milk. However much you need to feel like you're not drinking it black, as long as you are being cautious not to end up drinking a serving's worth of milk in it!

You have simply got to stop obsessing about unimportant things like the difference between cow and almond milk. Have whichever one you like. Have one sometimes and the other sometimes. It simply doesn't matter. Thinking about these details is absolutely ruinous to a sway. Stop worrying about things that make no difference and please please I beg you stop looking stuff up like this because it truly does not matter whatsoever.

[Kazzzz]

I'm definitely not having a whole serving per coffee because the milk labels here in nz say 1 serving is the whole cup (8oz) I'm only having 1-2 ounces of unsweetened Almond milk in each coffee. Is the 1gram of fat in it ok like multiple times a day? Also I'm not counting in my coffees or adding it to my daily numbers at all? I'm trying to not count the small things to take my brain out of it as much as possible . So the little things here an there I'm actually trying not to count is that ok?

[Kazzzz]

On a side note my son is nearly 17 months old and i still don't have my period back! If it's not back by the time he turns 18 months old I'd like to try something to bring it back even if that means wean him and either try start back up some feed after my period returns or maybe pump if he won't take the breast back. Does pumping sway pink or is ot something in the actual breastfeeding hormones? Maybe if i weaned him but kept pumping maybe my period would still come back because of not actually feeding. I don't know but i thought my period would be back by now. He's been only feeding once at night an once in the day for like 2wks now. Do you think it's highly likely to come soon even if i continue these feeds as is? That would be the best option all round.

[atomic sagebrush]

Yes, that's right.

Just don't count it. I don't care if it adds a bit of fat. Yes, you will need to be honest with yourself if you're actually having the equivalent of a LOT of fat/cals in one day, and if you TRULY (and I mean TRULY, not some mental game you're playing with yourself as an anxiety relief mechanism, but actually in reality having the equivalent of a serving) but most people do the reverse - they cut back without really realizing it and end up consuming less than they assume they're getting.

You need to put all this on autopilot. No more worrying about this thing or that thing 200 times a day, it needs to be done, settled, out of sight out of mind.

[atomic sagebrush]

You should not do or take anything to 'bring your cycle back'. Those things generally don't work, and when they do appear to work, it's often because a person's cycle was coming back on its own anyway (there are often people who will tell me "but I KNOW this miracle herb worked because I took it and got my period 3 days later - but that wasn't from the miracle herb, because you have to ovulate before you get a period, so those people's perception was simply a coincidence.) In fact, I see SO many cases of disrupted cycles in people who take various herbs that I am all but 100% sure the herbs actually make it take longer for a good many people who take them.

The way to get your cycle to come back is by waiting. It will come back at any time. Be sure you're eating enough, as starving yourself can then make your body too "nervous" to keep ovulating (and of course that can happen even without nursing!) If you're nursing only 2x a day and eating enough it's all but certain your cycle will come back soon.

It does not make any sense to try to wean him and then get him to go back on the breast (why would you do that?? For your sway?? But the control freakishness required would sway so hugely blue that it would negate any benefit of nursing!) It will only be frustrating for you both. Do not do it, not for your sake, but for his, as I suspect that would be a negative experience for a child. I'm not a psychologist but there's something about that which does not feel right to me in terms of his well being. If you want to wean, wean. If you want to keep nursing, keep nursing. Don't try to set up some magic scenario where you can have everything, because this is one of those times where you have to pick a lane.

It does not make any sense to pump. It is not the act of nursing itself but the lactation hormones and pumping will continue to maintain them. Plus, again, it is SO control freakish to do this, you are literally killing your sway in order to save it.

From my perspective, this is simply another manifestation of your control freakishness. Making some ridiculously complicated, totally unnecessary plan out of an inability to simply leave things and wait for something that you want to force to happen, or to accept that something that you wanted to have (in this case, conceiving while nursing) just isn't on the table for you, is about as control freakish as it gets.

You can either have patience and keep nursing and your cycle will return (probably very soon) or you can wean and your cycle will also return. There's no magic way where you can have it all here, just doesn't work that way.

[Kazzzz]

I thought of it because most people know that if you interrupt eb with pumping your fertility can return so you can't rely on breastfeeding as birth control like alot of people do. If your just eb no pumping before 6 months its as safe a birth control as condoms. I was just trying to see if there is something i can do to speed up the return of my period. I would try restart breastfeeding because I'd rather keep breastfeeding i went through alot to get here but your right that would be confusing to him. I'll continue as we are, thinking about it now I'm not ready.

I've had 2 days of sweet cheats lately homemade cookies basic 4 ingredients butter, sugar, cocoa, flour super quick an easy an omg orgasmic lol i had to make them for my sons class shared lunch so i made like 50 big mistake lol once i had 1 couldn't stop it was like a drug its so normal for me to bake an eat baked goods daily i ate 8 cookies on each day of these cheats two days in a row i also didn't exercise on those two days. Which makes me nervous so maybe not conceiving tomorrow will be a good thing lol. (one of the cheat days i only went a little over in fat an pro an the next cheat day i didn't go over in anything) i guess that makes it a little better. This is why i wanna speed things up i feel myself giving up or maybe i just need to change reset my mindset an get back on track. I can do this.

I'm taking 1 or 2 ovulation tests a day and i was wondering if i actually got a pos opk would i do my 1 attempt at or wait till my period starts so i can include my clomid? I guess I'd give one attempt just because I've already waited so long but having that clomid would be much better right?

[atomic sagebrush]

Yes, that's the problem with not letting yourself have cheats now and then, is that once you start eating, you can't stop. So it's actually best to have cheats when you're really craving something, so you don't set yourself up to binge on stuff. But it's ok, just let it go and move on from here. That's what often happens with cheat days too - people are devastated by them but then realize they didn't even go over limits, or only just barely did. All is well, you can do this, just pick it up and move on.

Re whether to have an attempt or wait for Clomid, that's up to you. Totally at your discretion. Unfortunately my crystal ball is in the shop this week, that pesky thing, so I can't honestly know what is the better option. So follow your gut instinct and see how it goes.

[Kazzzz]

Cool thank you so much and it kinda makes me feel normal to know that others feel devastated too by their cheats and not just me over reaching lol.

I can feel ovulation cramps today but still no positive opk I'll keep testing had increased cm last few days too so maybe these things mean i mite ovulate over the next few days

[Kazzzz]

I think the stevia is making me crave and cave sweet foods it's really bad so i cheated on the cookies 2 days in a row the other day and this morning i cheated with 4 pancakes an jam and i had already just eaten. I'm getting disheartened by my lack of self control all of a sudden.

[Kazzzz]

Hmmm or is it my hormones an I'm leading up to ovulation thats changed my apatite? Like i said the yesterday I've got increased cm cramps and this evening my opk is by far the darkest its been since i conceived last time. Something I'm thinking maybe the reason I've cheated 3 times over the last 7 days is because my ovulation is approaching. Anyway these darker lines have given me the push i needed to stick to the diet avoid sugar etc. A part of me actually wonders if the cheats are helping my body activate ovulation like the extra fat/sugar/cals that are in cookies and pancakes just giving my body that extra energy /boost towards ovulation. I'm excited though can't wait to test tomorrow. Will keep you posted. Also if i do ovulate an conceived would those cheats have a negative effect on my sway?. I've been on Diazepam for the last week to help chill me out chilling out mite also help me ovulate and my sway. Fingers crossed.

Last thing me an my partner have both been arguing heaps lately both under alot of stress trying to sell our house an my partner starting a new job. I mean worst argument 3 days long we haven't argued like this since we were younger (years ago) can that fighting make us both sway boy? Or nothing to it?

[atomic sagebrush]

I think the stevia is making me crave and cave sweet foods it's really bad so i cheated on the cookies 2 days in a row the other day and this morning i cheated with 4 pancakes an jam and i had already just eaten. I'm getting disheartened by my lack of self control all of a sudden.

oh interesting observation. I find diet drinks make me hungrier so it may be there's something to that for you.

[atomic sagebrush]

Most people find an increase in hunger after ovulation, not necessarily before, but anything is possible.

It can be that eating a little more helps you to ovulate.

I can't tell anyone if a set of cheats hurt their sway. All I can say is that I've seen people very concerned about cheating who still went on to get girls.

I would not worry about the fighting (although I'm sorry, that sounds very unfun) I'd worry about the control freakishness having to do with your sway.

[Kazzzz]

Ok yeah I'm going to let it go have a bath tonight have fun together and destress together have a few drinks or watch a movie together once kids are in bed.

I know my control freakishness is bad at times i wish it wasn't so. I do have antidepressants that work well for ocd so maybe i should just start it today. I also need to start folic acid haven't started it. I'm drinking coffee round the clock an loving it its like a snack for me now,I'm having most just black with stevia an loving it. I just thought actually the Diazepam can cause hunger too but i definitely think theres something in the sweeteners i wounder if thats why mums who eat tons of sweetener have opposites maybe it's making them cheat alot or eat more. Just looked online an it can cause people to eat more interesting. Hopefully its not cause they do what I'm doing black coffee with sweetener round the clock!

[Kazzzz]

Is it ok that I'm drinking decafe an stevia alot outside of meals? I've taken a liking to it an it feels like cheating not having milk. only have milk in my with a meal coffee or not at all just by choice really i don't notice it missing so may aswel not have the added fat etc an also don't want to be going through the milk if itw not needed anyway plilus food prices. Im sure its ok but just doesn't feel like fasting with all these hot sweet drinks. Its 12 cals of stevia plus just black decaf I'm having 1-2 after dinner an 1-2 before my 11am breakfast then one before lunch an once before dinner. Atleast 2 are caffeine coffee throughout the day. I'm being ocd lol it just feels to good to be girl swaying.

[atomic sagebrush]

I have not seen anyone doing that so I can't say how it affects sways. But I did definitely drink about that much coffee when I got my girl. (without the stevia added)

[Kazzzz]

I have not seen anyone doing that so I can't say how it affects sways. But I did definitely drink about that much coffee when I got my girl. (without the stevia added)

I worry about the high stevia intake maybe could sway boy since we don't know an old swayers swore by it as a good boy swayer. So most mums are having coffee with a splash of any milk an some have sweetener some have none right? Is it like half of mums drinking it round the clock an half having an few coffees a day obviously some having none. But do you mean you haven't seen anyone doing stevia with coffee round the clock or coffee round the clock with or without a splash of milk? My gut tells me what I'm doing sways boy. I think when i feel like I'm cheating i actually am lol and my body knows it. Like when i have a black coffee with or without a splash of milk i feel like my body gets nothing from it but when i have stevia or aspartame i feel my body be relieved by it somehow just like how a snack feels when fasting. Who knows but i think how and when we drink coffee mite be important.

I just want to be doing everything the same as most successful girl swayers did.


I know despite a few cheats my diet is great its never been so different for so long in my life but i worry i mite d
Undo that by snacking on sweet coffees when I'm suppose to be fasting instead. I think we need to know more about the fasting hrs in both successful and failed sways. Like are more women who have sweetener an a splash of milk while in fasting hrs failing while mums who are just having black or a splash of milk are having more success. I believe something in sweeteners while fasting is having the body react negatively for a girl sway. Thats the feeling i get physically an spirituality with sweeteners taken in fasting hours. Call me ocd lol but I'm going to stop all sweeteners during my 14 over night fasting hours.

[Kazzzz]

Found all my sweetner answers here.

https://brunetteonamission.com/health/dont-break-your-fast-your-complete-guide-to-sweeteners/?unapproved=1831&moderation-hash=8e11256f88970781c49c7747ee2d3f2f#comment-1831

What a great read it is on different sweeteners and their effects on different fasts and it makes so much sense this is why aspartame and my stevia make me feel like I've had a snack (my stevia just so happens to be mostly erythritol which is processed and absorbed by the gut which to the body feels like a snack. I truly think theres something in the sweeteners. I think the only sweetener anyone should be using while swaying girl is pure stevia and that includes with meals because of the long term effects on gut/ir etc. Especially for women girl swaying on pcos/alt diet most sweeteners probably sway boy for women with insulin issues.

I'd love to see what if any change would happen in girl sways overall if only pure stevia was used or no sweetners. Since pcos/alt diet has taken the insulin issue woman away from sugar and carbs its pushed them towards sweeteners which mite for them only be slightly better then sugar. I would hazard a guess that people who have insulin issues crave sugar so are more likely if told to avoid sugar will go to sweeteners and not just a little but ALOT. Maybe inadvertently swaying boy. It lines up with the failed girl swayers who took tons of sweetener!! Also sweeteners increase cravings for sugar and increase hunger making people eat more and increase their sweet tooth making them use more an more sweetner and cheat with sugar.

[Kazzzz]

But obviously if stevia causes you to have sugar cravings or increased hunger we should go without stevia too. I'm going to try a pure stevia instead of my erythritol based one because it's making me crave real sugar really badly.

[atomic sagebrush]

Kazz, I'm not even going to read all this. This has gone on long enough and I really don't appreciate the undertone of this last exchange. If you'd like to take this advice, after you looked and looked till you could come up with something to feed into your own belief system about artificial sweeteners swaying hugely when they obviously do no such thing, that's fine, but I assure you that sways don't come down to these types of meaningless details. I am not going to change the advice I give anyone because I have seen by far more than you have. 2 servings of ANY artificial sweetener is fine in a sway, I know this because I have seen people using different artificial sweeteners and getting girls. And what's more, sending people on these sorts of wild goose chases where they worry about things that cannot possibly be making any difference whatsoever actually DOES wreck sways, and so I would not support anything that does that.

I have answered your questions on sweeteners within an inch of my life. Even after I have told you point blank you are actively destroying your sway with this, it continues on and on. I'm at a loss. If you truly want to do as others have done, then don't use stevia. Or use it! Also cool! Pick a lane and stick with it, because you are blowing up your sway with this stuff.

[Kazzzz]

I mean no disrespect or anything and i'm not trying to question you or your advice I'm really grateful for your help. I'm just saying if all artificial sugars increase hunger and sweet cravings meaning more people cheat and if all artificial sweeteners except stevia can create ir issues or make them worse would it be safer for girl swayers to also avoid sweeteners? But if a sweetner is needed use pure stevia but watch out for increased hunger an sweet cravings?

I'm just saying sweeteners have made swaying girl harder for me. To start with it was great then i started get cravings like really badly especially sugar cravings. I've decided to drop all sweeteners but will retry with pure stevia in a few weeks and I'll see if that gives me cravings or not.

[atomic sagebrush]

It is not. It is not safer for people to limit their options for no reason. It is not necessary and the more complicated we make swaying, a) the less compliance we have, especially for people with PCOS who actually NEED to have some fake sugar sometimes to be able to stick to the diet without eating a bunch of actual sugar and b) the more detail oriented and control freak people get, worrying about this food and that food and every morsel they put in their mouths, and for the umpteenth time, it is THAT which wrecks people's sways. Plus, if there is anything to stevia swaying blue, (and for all we know there may be! We don't know how swaying works and I am not the font of all earthly wisdom, the old schoolers may be right about stevia, we have no data either way) we have then in effect lowered people's success rates based on theory upon theory, none of which have been even remotely proven. Blood sugar is a THEORY. That lady's writeup about how all those fake sugars affect the body are THEORIES. Theory, theory, theory, the FACT is that I have seen plenty of people use a reasonable amount of fake sugar in their sways, of all different sorts, and get girls doing that. (If they didn't, I wouldn't recommend it!!) It is also a fact that if I don't allow it, the people who believe in it will want to use it anyway, and may end up using too much, and others will think "what a weird site, not letting me use aspartame" and then go somewhere else where the advice is both more dangerous and worse for pink!

Most pink swayers use at least some artificial sweetener. Most pink swayers get girls regardless. It is only that small subset of people who are invariably going completely squirrel nutkins with swaying anyway, who ingest massive tons of it who ~seemed to~ in my observations - not a study but my observations - get more boys than expected. ANOTHER THEORY! Totally unproven! Less than a theory, completely anecdotal! The people back on Ingender all certainly believe that aspartame, even a lot of aspartame, sways pink...and maybe they're the ones that are right, and my observations are what is wrong. Maybe we're both wrong and aspartame does nothing. It's pretty darn clear that swaying simply cannot be coming down to presence or absence of fake sugar, since that would be very clearcut and easy to observe, and we aren't observing that.

Sweeteners have not made swaying harder for you. You have made swaying harder for yourself by constantly overthinking every single detail. Lots of people have cravings who don't use fake sugar at all. And a LOT of people really enjoy and rely on some aspartame to make it through and will have by far worse cravings without it. Yup, artificial sweetener is making you hungrier. I agree, I find that to be true too - but once, when I wasn't TTC, I lost a lot of weight using aspartame and it was helpful. My body did adjust to it fairly quickly; some cravings and being hungry between meals, while unpleasant, are not going to destroy you. You can play around with your eating schedule in ways to mitigate that effect. It is possible and I know it's possible because people do it and I have done it in the past.

If you don't like the artificial sweetener drop it and move on. Switch to stevia and move on. Hey, even eat sugar and move on if you'd like. But you are not going to pester me into agreeing with you over this completely meaningless detail as an anxiety relief mechanism because I have some extremely well-thought-out reasons why I suggest the things I do based on 12 years of experience watching people sway and seeing not only their outcomes but their happiness/sanity level while swaying. And I ain't changing it in order to make you feel slightly better about your sway, period, end of story.

[Thefinalcountdown]

I’m just stopping by to reassure you I got 2 girls with massive stevia intake (multiple coffees throughout the day yes with cream) and a boy without stevia but still having coffee. Just make your coffee drinkable and forget it. Lots of girl moms I know have mega sweet tooth’s but don’t eat a lot of real foods.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Kazzzz]

It is not. It is not safer for people to limit their options for no reason. It is not necessary and the more complicated we make swaying, a) the less compliance we have, especially for people with PCOS who actually NEED to have some fake sugar sometimes to be able to stick to the diet without eating a bunch of actual sugar and b) the more detail oriented and control freak people get, worrying about this food and that food and every morsel they put in their mouths, and for the umpteenth time, it is THAT which wrecks people's sways. Plus, if there is anything to stevia swaying blue, (and for all we know there may be! We don't know how swaying works and I am not the font of all earthly wisdom, the old schoolers may be right about stevia, we have no data either way) we have then in effect lowered people's success rates based on theory upon theory, none of which have been even remotely proven. Blood sugar is a THEORY. That lady's writeup about how all those fake sugars affect the body are THEORIES. Theory, theory, theory, the FACT is that I have seen plenty of people use a reasonable amount of fake sugar in their sways, of all different sorts, and get girls doing that. (If they didn't, I wouldn't recommend it!!) It is also a fact that if I don't allow it, the people who believe in it will want to use it anyway, and may end up using too much, and others will think "what a weird site, not letting me use aspartame" and then go somewhere else where the advice is both more dangerous and worse for pink!

Most pink swayers use at least some artificial sweetener. Most pink swayers get girls regardless. It is only that small subset of people who are invariably going completely squirrel nutkins with swaying anyway, who ingest massive tons of it who ~seemed to~ in my observations - not a study but my observations - get more boys than expected. ANOTHER THEORY! Totally unproven! Less than a theory, completely anecdotal! The people back on Ingender all certainly believe that aspartame, even a lot of aspartame, sways pink...and maybe they're the ones that are right, and my observations are what is wrong. Maybe we're both wrong and aspartame does nothing. It's pretty darn clear that swaying simply cannot be coming down to presence or absence of fake sugar, since that would be very clearcut and easy to observe, and we aren't observing that.

Sweeteners have not made swaying harder for you. You have made swaying harder for yourself by constantly overthinking every single detail. Lots of people have cravings who don't use fake sugar at all. And a LOT of people really enjoy and rely on some aspartame to make it through and will have by far worse cravings without it. Yup, artificial sweetener is making you hungrier. I agree, I find that to be true too - but once, when I wasn't TTC, I lost a lot of weight using aspartame and it was helpful. My body did adjust to it fairly quickly; some cravings and being hungry between meals, while unpleasant, are not going to destroy you. You can play around with your eating schedule in ways to mitigate that effect. It is possible and I know it's possible because people do it and I have done it in the past.

If you don't like the artificial sweetener drop it and move on. Switch to stevia and move on. Hey, even eat sugar and move on if you'd like. But you are not going to pester me into agreeing with you over this completely meaningless detail as an anxiety relief mechanism because I have some extremely well-thought-out reasons why I suggest the things I do based on 12 years of experience watching people sway and seeing not only their outcomes but their happiness/sanity level while swaying. And I ain't changing it in order to make you feel slightly better about your sway, period, end of story.

I don't want you to do anything but see what I'm saying. Do you think artificial sweeteners can trigger ir issues or make them worse? It's not unreasonable to think that maybe this could be why the mums who eat tons of it have less success with swaying girl? Anyway yes i am trying to reduce my ocdness just found that very interesting. I'm happy just going by how i feel on the day/moment if i want milk, sugar, stevia or even a little sweetner here an there if theres no otger option then I'll have some, I'm trying to go with the flow i really am. I just noticed my sweet cravings went through the roof while taking erythritol but actually it mite of been because of how much i was talking like i said round the clock 6 coffees a day 2 servings in each cup so maybe high intake is not so great. My cravings have stopped now since i stopped erythritol so I'm happy about that and even my hunger has reduced now. Anyway moving on from thinking about sweeteners, letting go.

[atomic sagebrush]

Why do you assume I haven't already done hours of research into all this and already know this and have discounted it? Sometimes I give people a briefer explanation on some issue simply because getting into the nitty gritty is confusing and encourages control freakishness (and this is especially true when it is someone who I know has issues in that department already) Sometimes I try more to reassure/offer support than to write an encyclopedia, when I think that's what people need from me. The answers I give are based in people's responses to similar questions over the years - what has helped them, what has reassured them, what has confused them, etc.

Fact - MOST people do not want answers to exacting detail, MOST people already believe my answers are overly detailed, MOST people's eyes kind of glaze over when I write too much, and I am always, always on guard against triggering control freakishness since it ruins sways, so (believe it or not) I attempt to err on the side of brevity rather than writing War-and-Peace length replies in which I delve into every aspect of everything under the sun in every post I write. The amount of work I put in on this site is but a fraction of the time I have spent reading books, research, blogs, and all the rest of it. I have invested not only time but a good deal of money into accruing information that I share with you guys in the ways I think the average person understands at the level of detail people need from me. This doesn't mean I don't know things that I don't happen to bring up.

Perhaps more importantly, why do you assume I don't see what you're saying?? I assure you I do, but I am taking dozens of factors into account in the advice I give (as I've already expained in mind-numbing detail). I DISAGREE WITH YOU for all the reasons I already spelled out. A person can fully understand a point, and disagree with it. YOUR CONCERN IS NOT A CONCERN I HAVE.

I find - and this is in no way just you, it's something I run into at times - that people who are insanely wound up about their sways do not like it when I disagree with them. Some people just desperately want my approval on every element of their sway and will argue to the mat trying to wrest it out of me. Or, maybe it's just that you don't really bother to read my replies, I've gotten that vibe before from you on several occasions, and I find it extremely disrespectful of my time and energy - not "too many questions" but that you DO NOT BOTHER TO READ MY ANSWERS. Maybe it's a combination of both, or maybe this is sheer anxiety relief for you and nothing more (but that is still very disrespectful of my time and energy). I'm not sure what your deal is, I honestly thought I'd seen it all at this point but this is just completely out of my experience.

I am over this artificial sweetener thing and if you ask me another question on the matter I'm going to lock this thread. Now, to answer your question once again, for the FINAL TIME, I do not think that artificial sweeteners cause or trigger IR issues in the manner in which we use them here on this site, and indeed, the manner most, and possibly ANY people use them in. If they did, I would not recommend them.

This is ending here, now, immediately, today, this minute. Your next question had better be about something that I haven't already answered you on several times already, and it had darn well better not be about artificial sweetener.

[atomic sagebrush]

1) We can sit around speculating all we want about "maybe it's this or that" but we simply do not know. That having been said, it makes no sense whatsoever that it's "eating at this hour or that hour" because the most likely explanation as to why swaying works is that it gives a baby of a certain gender a better chance of survival and growing up to pass down genes to future generations. So if you don't have enough calories coming in for a baby boy, why in the heck would that change because you ate dinner at 8pm instead of 6? These very fine details simply don't add up to affecting a sway, AND they contribute to control freakishness by encouraging you guys to be thinking about your sway every minute of every hour of every day.

What makes the most sense is just that eating less often helps your sway (because your blood sugar is lower on average across the days and weeks). The ONLY reason we push back breakfast is that's just the easiest time for most people to miss a meal, or push it back by a few hours. There is nothing magic about missing breakfast, it's that we are eating less often OVERALL. Some people find it easier to skip dinner. That is ok. Others are incapable of missing dinner (ME) and I had to eat pretty much last thing before going to bed or I couldn't sleep. I still got a girl doing that so whatever that program you saw on TV was saying, it certainly didn't undo my sway by eating at 8-9 PM and since tons of other people have also done that (including some blue swayers who ended up with girl opposites) I can pretty definitively say that no ones sway is wrecked by eating before bed.

This type of CONSTANT thinking, theorizing, fine tuning your sway is absolutely the worst possible thing you could be doing right now. Seriously. The more you guys focus on theories and suppositions, the more you go down these rabbitholes where you're basing sways on totally hypothetical musings instead of just doing what works for most people most of the time. Please just do what has worked for people and let go of this controlling mindset because it is ruinous to sways.

2)Please do not use maca. If I had thought maca was a good idea, I would have told you to use maca. I do not have anyone use maca (many blue swayers want to use maca, because some sites claim it sways blue and also because it's supposedly "good for fertilty") because it has caused all sorts of weird side effects, even crazy things like hallucinations and head-to-toe itching, and like literally every other hormonal herbal supplement, can actually make it take LONGER for your cycle to resume. Plus, you are nursing and there is inadequate information about safety when nursing.

Additionally, if your period came back within 7 days of using maca, then it was either a) not actually a period and you caused yourself to start bleeding by suddenly lowering your estrogen levels and triggering a breakthrough bleed that was not your period at all since it did not follow ovulation, or b)your cycle was already on its way back. Your period doesn't just "come back". In order to have a true period, you first must ovulate (and it takes a good week-10 days minimum for an egg to develop to the point it can be ovulated.) Then, 10-14 days later, your period would come. So unless you had already ovulated, your period could not have come back 7 days later from Maca. If that was a true period, you had already ovulated on your own, and if it was breakthrough bleeding, that wasn't a period anyway and taking Maca had hormonal effects on you - the same type of effects that may keep ovulation away even longer.

3)Yes, artificial sweetener is fine. You can try a wholegrain muffin with artificial sweetener if you'd like, but of course the cooked fruit will itself have sugars in it (fresh fruit is better than cooked fruit in terms of blood sugar) and if you use dry fruit like sultanas or dates, they are VERY sugary and are probably best used in extreme moderation. Since you're on the alt. diet more as a preventative than due to active PCOS, having muffins now and then, even once a day, is probably ok but I'd not treat it as a free for all and absolutely do not have them between meals, on ly with meals.

And for anyone who thinks this is an overly harsh response, this is from page 10 of this thread. 10+ pages of artificial sweetener responses is enough to ask of me. Thanks for understanding, everyone - I am only human and I can only take so much.

[Kazzzz]

Why do you assume I haven't already done hours of research into all this and already know this and have discounted it? Sometimes I give people a briefer explanation on some issue simply because getting into the nitty gritty is confusing and encourages control freakishness (and this is especially true when it is someone who I know has issues in that department already) Sometimes I try more to reassure/offer support than to write an encyclopedia, when I think that's what people need from me. The answers I give are based in people's responses to similar questions over the years - what has helped them, what has reassured them, what has confused them, etc.

Fact - MOST people do not want answers to exacting detail, MOST people already believe my answers are overly detailed, MOST people's eyes kind of glaze over when I write too much, and I am always, always on guard against triggering control freakishness since it ruins sways, so (believe it or not) I attempt to err on the side of brevity rather than writing War-and-Peace length replies in which I delve into every aspect of everything under the sun in every post I write. The amount of work I put in on this site is but a fraction of the time I have spent reading books, research, blogs, and all the rest of it. I have invested not only time but a good deal of money into accruing information that I share with you guys in the ways I think the average person understands at the level of detail people need from me. This doesn't mean I don't know things that I don't happen to bring up.

Perhaps more importantly, why do you assume I don't see what you're saying?? I assure you I do, but I am taking dozens of factors into account in the advice I give (as I've already expained in mind-numbing detail). I DISAGREE WITH YOU for all the reasons I already spelled out. A person can fully understand a point, and disagree with it. YOUR CONCERN IS NOT A CONCERN I HAVE.

I find - and this is in no way just you, it's something I run into at times - that people who are insanely wound up about their sways do not like it when I disagree with them. Some people just desperately want my approval on every element of their sway and will argue to the mat trying to wrest it out of me. Or, maybe it's just that you don't really bother to read my replies, I've gotten that vibe before from you on several occasions, and I find it extremely disrespectful of my time and energy - not "too many questions" but that you DO NOT BOTHER TO READ MY ANSWERS. Maybe it's a combination of both, or maybe this is sheer anxiety relief for you and nothing more (but that is still very disrespectful of my time and energy). I'm not sure what your deal is, I honestly thought I'd seen it all at this point but this is just completely out of my experience.

I am over this artificial sweetener thing and if you ask me another question on the matter I'm going to lock this thread. Now, to answer your question once again, for the FINAL TIME, I do not think that artificial sweeteners cause or trigger IR issues in the manner in which we use them here on this site, and indeed, the manner most, and possibly ANY people use them in. If they did, I would not recommend them.

This is ending here, now, immediately, today, this minute. Your next question had better be about something that I haven't already answered you on several times already, and it had darn well better not be about artificial sweetener.

The two points i brought up were sweetener increasing hungry and or sweet cravings which i experienced and sweetener triggering or increasing ir issues. I was wanting your take on those things that's why i felt like i wasn't being heard and the conversation went back and forth. In your last two angry responses you finally touched on those two points.
Just so you know i do actually read every single word of every single reply you give. I want to learn and explore that's my personality i also have anxiety up to my eye balls this is why i sometimes ask questions more then once. I'm a busy mum of 3 kids loaded with anxiety trying to also take on an do a sway i haven't slept through the night in a year and a half. My brain is so flooded some days that when i read answers or even if someone tells me something in person it doesn't stick. I'm actually really hurt by your response to the point of holding myself back from breaking down. I'm actually a really good, caring, sensitive person who likes to look into everything an explore I'm inquisitive by nature but for you see that as a negative thing an explain it like some sort of monster is very damaging to an already low self-esteemed mother. I try to not let the anxiety i experience define me but thanks for all your help and support i truly have appreciated it beyond words and like I've said many times i mean no disrespect at all, I'm really sorry if i annoyed you.

[Kazzzz]

The two points i brought up were sweetener increasing hungry and or sweet cravings which i experienced and sweetener triggering or increasing ir issues. I was wanting your take on those things that's why i felt like i wasn't being heard and the conversation went back and forth. In your last two angry responses you finally touched on those two points.
Just so you know i do actually read every single word of every single reply you give. I want to learn and explore that's my personality i also have anxiety up to my eye balls this is why i sometimes ask questions more then once. I'm a busy mum of 3 kids loaded with anxiety trying to also take on an do a sway i haven't slept through the night in a year and a half. My brain is so flooded some days that when i read answers or even if someone tells me something in person it doesn't stick. I'm actually really hurt by your response to the point of holding myself back from breaking down. I'm actually a really good, caring, sensitive person who likes to look into everything an explore I'm inquisitive by nature but for you see that as a negative thing an explain it like some sort of monster is very damaging to an already low self-esteemed mother. I try to not let the anxiety i experience define me but thanks for all your help and support i truly have appreciated it beyond words and like I've said many times i mean no disrespect at all, I'm really sorry if i annoyed you.

[Kazzzz]

I’m just stopping by to reassure you I got 2 girls with massive stevia intake (multiple coffees throughout the day yes with cream) and a boy without stevia but still having coffee. Just make your coffee drinkable and forget it. Lots of girl moms I know have mega sweet tooth’s but don’t eat a lot of real foods.


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Hey sorry i missed your message, thank you so much that's helpful to know you used lots of stevia when you got your girls. I haven't tried just stevia yet my one is erythritol based with a bit of stevia in it and it caused me to feel more hungry and have real bad sugar cravings. I'll just use what ever i have on hand or what i feel like having on the day. I've brought some pure stevia just waiting for it to arrive hopefully it doesn't increase my hunger or sweet cravings.

[Thefinalcountdown]

Erythritol really really bothers my stomach. Like lots of gas and can also cause diarrhea so you may be irritated by it. I used liquid stevia and LOTS. I mean, my husband couldn’t even take a sip it was so sweet, all during the day too. You can also realize that sweet cravings are probably because you’re eating differently now than maybe how you’re used to and your body craves sweets because it’s not having them, not because you are having xyz sweetener. Let it go and drink the stuff!!

It may not be my place to say this but atomic is really not being mean or cruel in the least. Actually the opposite! She WANTS your sway to work and she’s tried every way to say it gently now she’s using some tough love. If she didn’t care she wouldn’t be writing you, or any of us back! She comes on here daily with FIVE kids to deal with all of us asking redundant questions not to make us feel good/bad/ ok, but for us to SUCCEED! You have to let personal feelings go and trust that she has like 20 years and umpteen number of women experience behind her.

Enjoy your coffee! And relax! All the all girl moms I know are so relaxed about stuff it’s ridiculous! Makes me cringe! Lol


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[atomic sagebrush]

The two points i brought up were sweetener increasing hungry and or sweet cravings which i experienced and sweetener triggering or increasing ir issues. I was wanting your take on those things that's why i felt like i wasn't being heard and the conversation went back and forth. In your last two angry responses you finally touched on those two points.
Just so you know i do actually read every single word of every single reply you give. I want to learn and explore that's my personality i also have anxiety up to my eye balls this is why i sometimes ask questions more then once. I'm a busy mum of 3 kids loaded with anxiety trying to also take on an do a sway i haven't slept through the night in a year and a half. My brain is so flooded some days that when i read answers or even if someone tells me something in person it doesn't stick. I'm actually really hurt by your response to the point of holding myself back from breaking down. I'm actually a really good, caring, sensitive person who likes to look into everything an explore I'm inquisitive by nature but for you see that as a negative thing an explain it like some sort of monster is very damaging to an already low self-esteemed mother. I try to not let the anxiety i experience define me but thanks for all your help and support i truly have appreciated it beyond words and like I've said many times i mean no disrespect at all, I'm really sorry if i annoyed you.

Kazzz, there is not any earthly way I could have answered you more thoroughly than I have. 10 pages of answers on artificial sweeteners is more than adequate by any measure, and my replies in this thread have been more than enough for other people. In short, this is not a me problem. I am trying to HELP YOU. True fact, we all have problems. We all have anxiety and sleepless nights, myself included, we all struggle with being busy as moms and having low self esteem, and despite that I have spent a LOT of time and energy attempting to assist you in the way that I think is best for YOU based on years of experience helping people who are also anxious, who are also concerned about the outcome of their sway, and who most certainly did NOT ask the same question over and over again. My assistance does not entail feeding your anxiety and feeding your control freakishness by giving in to your every whim. I am not a trained monkey or a robot and I DO NOT have to answer your questions in the way that you personally think that I should.

I have reasons why I give the replies in the fashion that I do, why I use one type of reply vs. another one, and so on. I chose not to go into too much scientific detail with you, because detail feeds control freakishness, and you had already, on more than one occasion, taken a detail I offered up quite innocently and ran with it down another rabbithole and another, which is DEVASTATING for your sway, and for what? For something that does not possibly sway in any appreciable way. Artificial sweetener does not and cannot matter in the big picture because we would not see the results we do if it did. That is answer enough, move on. You don't need, and in fact SHOULD NOT BE dwelling on this, and me encouraging you to continue dwelling upon it would not be me doing you any favors whatsoever.

Before I replied, I actually went back through and reread my responses to be sure (I always do this before I send a contentious post) and in fact, I had answered every one of your concerns in previous posts. Repeatedly. So let's not use the word "finally" here because that is simply not supported by any facts whatsoever and is actually pretty insulting all things considered. Again, not at all respectful of my time and energy.

FINAL WARNING - your next post needs to be about something that we have not talked about already. If it isn't, this thread is locked and you'll need to start a new one in which you do not mention artificial sweeteners AT ALL or I'll lock that one too. I will happily lock as many posts on artificial sweeteners as you'd care to make, and I'll do that while continuing to answer any further legitimate questions. It is time to move on.

Do not argue with me, attempt to explain, etc or I will lock this thread. We are done with this topic of conversation.

[atomic sagebrush]

You know what, actually, I was pretty clear the last time I didn't want this thread to continue and to come back and read, in a 20 page long thread "you finally gave me an answer" is just so egregious that I think I will lock this simply to not have to look at it any more.

Open a new thread and do not bring up artificial sweetener in it.