Please help me plan the use and timing of RepHresh....

[nini]

Awaiting my AF (can feel its on its way and got a BFN yesterday, never mind, better luck next cycle) and planning to use RepHresh next cycle.

I will buy a packet of 9 applicators, I usually O on CD23 (22 could be possible, either way, ovulation should end CD24 the latest). Although I usually prefer o+12, I might have to do a cut off this month as my husbands shifts are so that he will probably be away from home the 2 days before O and the day of o :( (So chances I will actually get pregnant are slim anyway). Ok, so much for timing.

IF AF starts within the next 36 hours (which I expect it will), I will have to dtd on CD20 (last evening that dh and I can possibly dtd before o is over), and I will most likely O on CD 23, ovulation should end CD24, usally midmorning (last 2 cycles anyway...).

I was thinking of the following scenario: use on applicator on CD 14, 17, 20 (day of DTD!) and then 22 and 24 again (to make sure ph is low before and around Ovulation). I have noticed that my ph is highest in the 24 hours of o, it drops fairly quickly after O has happened (which is why I am a firm o+12 believer, but I dont want to loose a whole month due to husbands shifts). This would mean I could still use the other half next cycle if I werent successful.

My questions:
what do you think about my timing plan of using the applicators, how do you usually use them and what is your experience?
Can I use RepHresh on the day of dtd, or will this kill all the sperms?
Would you use Sylk when dtd in addition (just a small amount?)
Would you use RepHresh daily between cut off and end of ovulation?

I will not do douching, so this will be my only way to keep PH low during ovulation (apart from diet, cranberry etc.). This cycle my ph went up to 5.7 briefly, I dtd at o+12 when it had dropped to 5.3. I am happy with a 5.3, I conceived my dd around that mark. I am not an overly ambitous 4.5 mummy LOL.... I will also not use the diva cup I ordered for a lot of money, I just cant seem to work it, its not for me. So, RepHresh is all I have....

Cant wait to hear what you guys think xxx I am just so worried about a cut off as my ds2 was a cut off (1-2 days) and my dd an 0+12 conception.

[rainbowflower]

after you have done your last attempt there is no need to keep using RepHresh - the swimmers are long gone. It's the pH when they arrive in the VJ that matters, not the pH afterwards.

I used RepHresh at O-2, and we DTD on O-2 and twice on O-1 and I conceived, so I don't think using it too close to your attempts matters massively. I only used one applicator that cycle - I had planned to use it from when my CM started to become fertile/got highs on CBFM, but OV arrived earlier than expected.

I didn't use any Sylk, but didn't feel the need to.

Timing isn't thought to sway any more so I don't think you need to worry about it, but frequency of release is. A cut off will just lower your chances of getting a BFP, but it won't sway either way.

[nini]

Thanks for your answer, I have a few more questions though :( If ph only matters immidiately after dtd, then surely timing must matter, since my ph is definitely higher at certain times (it is still low 3 days before o and it drops fairly quickly after ovulating).

Also, there is a study conducted in the Netherlands (often referred to as the Dutch study) which shows that the diet is only 80% effective when there is a cut off of 2-3 days in addition (without timing it was still favouring girls, but much much lower). This study is one of the only few that is actually conducted through a scientific body (at least the only one I know of), that bases its trial on diet plus timing. The trial is ongoing. So I dont understand when people say timing doesnt matter at all :(

Anyway, the cut off isnt my own choice, but mainly due to husbands work commitments and I agree, I dont think I can fall pg with a 3 day cut off :(

Can I ask you this in addition, if the ph is important when the little swimmers arrive and travel up, how do we ensure that the ph further up is also low? Does RepHresh help with this as well, or do we rely on the diet? Did you for example lie down after inserting the applicator to have the Rephresh travel up inside you as far as possible or is this an absurd idea?

Thanks in advance and congratulations on your pregnancy....a LIbra baby? My dream :)

[rainbowflower]

pH only matters immediately before DTD and that's probably because it lowers sperm count when they arrive on the scene and dislike what's in there. The fertile CM simply helps those that DO make it to travel further up to the egg. Diet can alter the pH inside, but really there's no evidence that you do need to alter the pH inside in order to sway. Perhaps all the lowering is done at the start, and then you just help the lowered-sperm-count-sample to make it's way to the egg whilst giving them the best shot to get a pregnancy. No douche can alter pH all the way up, and (according to fertility experts) your body is naturally different pHs in different parts of your reproductive tract anyway.

I 100% don't believe timing matters for swaying at all; that's the only impartial (or so I think it is, not sure who funded it) study I've seen that finds that but you don't know what else the women were doing to sway (chances are they'd researched it if they were willing to participate in a gender study) and the sample size was very small if I remember correctly. The most determined ones would have been the ones that stuck to the diet/timing instructions and whatever else they had heard of or were told would sway... and would likely be more successful because they might have been swaying in other ways too.
If there WAS a strong timing-gender link, wouldn't almost all the impartial studies have found it? The fact that some even find more girls are conceived on OV day implies that the link is very weak if it exists at all. Timing matters for getting pregnant, not for swaying. Other factors sway!

[zanacal]

I believe (Atomic will correct me if I'm wrong) that the Dutch study was actually done by somebody trying to sell something. There are numerous studies on these boards which are far more useful imo - and the timing studies all draw different conclusions.

I 100% don't believe in timing either - there are plenty of sway opposites on these boards to prove that. I do know what you're saying about your pH being higher on certain days and those are likely the days you produce more EWCM - this varies for everybody and that's why I don't believe there can be one 'rule'. For example, I get lots of EWCM 2-4 days before O so I don't think a cut-off would be a good idea for ttc a girl for me. I don't think it matters anyway because on any given day we can do things to counteract the EWCM/high pH with gels/aspirin/antihistimines. We conceived our girl on O day.

[zanacal]

I believe (Atomic will correct me if I'm wrong) that the Dutch study was actually done by somebody trying to sell something. There are numerous studies on these boards which are far more useful imo - and the timing studies all draw different conclusions.

I 100% don't believe in timing either - there are plenty of sway opposites on these boards to prove that. I do know what you're saying about your pH being higher on certain days and those are likely the days you produce more EWCM - this varies for everybody and that's why I don't believe there can be one 'rule'. For example, I get lots of EWCM 2-4 days before O so I don't think a cut-off would be a good idea for ttc a girl for me. I don't think it matters anyway because on any given day we can do things to counteract the EWCM/high pH with gels/aspirin/antihistimines. We conceived our girl on O day.

In your situation I'd use Rephresh up to cd20 but not again and I wouldn't use Sylk to DTD because the cut-off is already lowering your chances of a BFP.

[Princess of Pink]

From my years on gender swaying boards (I am talking like 10yrs now) I have seen most cut-offs resulting in boys. I know one with a 6 day cut-off and she was temping and using opk's and didn't expect to get pregnant at all and had boy #5!! Frequent BDing and O+12 seem to work best if timing works at all!

[amari]

Good luck!

[zanacal]

Just in case you haven't seen it:

http://genderdreaming.com/forum/gender-swaying-discussion/7691-trouble-timing.html

[nini]

Thanks for all your posts. Zanacal, you are right, they charge ca. 1400 Euro to take part in the trial, this incl blood testing (I actually enquired myself, but would never spend that amount of money). Anyway, I just got my BFP, I am in disbelief, but my AF has never been late, so I thought either the vitex did its job, or I must be pregnant... and indeed, there was a 2nd line immeidately. I am a bit shocked to be honest. I can hardly remember my sway now, LOL.... xx

[atomic sagebrush]

A study you have to pay to take part in, is NOT a study and should never have been published wherever it was published at. When my son was in a study on vaccines, they paid us compensation for being a part of it.

I am familiar with the Dutch study and the diet that they used was very very similar to the LE diet - even told people to eat 40-50 g protein (it's just a coincidence - that is the amount of protein advised by the Dutch government and so that's what they told people to eat). We talk about the Dutch study in the "paid for studies" forum and you can read the complete text there. DIET sways for real biological reasons, timing doesn't even make biological sense.

BTW - we had a member who did blood testing before and after and followed the protocols of the Dutch study and there was no difference in her blood levels of Ca, Mag, and pot, and her sodium actually went UP. Your body tightly regulates those levels of minerals in your blood and unless you are either very very deprived of nutrients (many months/years on diet) or have something seriously wrong with you (cancer), the levels in your blood****** do not change. If cal-mag sway, it's NOT by altering the levels of minerals in your blood.

[atomic sagebrush]

Thanks for your answer, I have a few more questions though :( If ph only matters immidiately after dtd, then surely timing must matter, since my ph is definitely higher at certain times (it is still low 3 days before o and it drops fairly quickly after ovulating).

Also, there is a study conducted in the Netherlands (often referred to as the Dutch study) which shows that the diet is only 80% effective when there is a cut off of 2-3 days in addition (without timing it was still favouring girls, but much much lower). This study is one of the only few that is actually conducted through a scientific body (at least the only one I know of), that bases its trial on diet plus timing. The trial is ongoing. So I dont understand when people say timing doesnt matter at all :(

Anyway, the cut off isnt my own choice, but mainly due to husbands work commitments and I agree, I dont think I can fall pg with a 3 day cut off :(

Can I ask you this in addition, if the ph is important when the little swimmers arrive and travel up, how do we ensure that the ph further up is also low? Does RepHresh help with this as well, or do we rely on the diet? Did you for example lie down after inserting the applicator to have the Rephresh travel up inside you as far as possible or is this an absurd idea?

Thanks in advance and congratulations on your pregnancy....a LIbra baby? My dream :)

I realize you got your BFP (congrats!!!) but I still feel like I have to answer this post in case anyone stumbles onto this thread later on.

EVERYONE'S pH is high at ovulation. That's the only way that sperm can survive to make it to the egg is the existence of alkaline EWCM. Both X and Y sperm thrive in CM and semen pH of 7 and up. The plain fact is, that most of the baby girls ever born on the face of the planet were to people who did not give 2 figs about timing or pH and simply had sex when the mood struck them. It strains belief that the 3.5 billion women walking around were conceived with 14 days abstain and one shot 3 days before O or 12 hours after O, and it is equally unbelievable that the 3.5 billion men were conceived with one shot BD right at ovulation when factually speaking, most babies are conceived from BD more than once in the fertile window, particularly the day before O and early on O day. Timing makes no sense at all whatsoever.

You CAN'T ensure that the pH is low higher up. The odds are that you do not even WANT it to be (esp. with a cutoff) because both X and Y sperm need pH in the 7's to survive to make it to the egg. Whatever is swaying, it is very likely that it happens at least partially while the sperm are in the vagina. Maybe it's sperm numbers that matter, maybe it's some other thing entirely but what it ISN'T is a magical property of intercourse on any given day.

If you read the "trouble with timing" essay that I wrote you can see the case against timing very clearly laid out and I don't feel any need to repeat it. Tons of studies have been done on timing over the course of 50 years, through scientific bodies!!!! From many more reputable sources than the Dutch Study people. And no discernable pattern has been found - that indicates to me that there IS no pattern there to find.

The Dutch study participants determined their own ovulation thru temping and OPK and based on previous cycles (which as we all know is not at all reliable and varies drastically month to month, esp. when following a diet). Toni Weschler (author of TCOYF) states in her book that previous cycles are not reliable for predicting future cycles and also that temping is unreliable for pink Shettles timing because you cannot know when you are going to ovulate, 2 and 3 days before ovulation. The Dutch study states very clearly that "LH surge WAS ASSUMED" to take place 24 hours before ovulation when in fact on average, ovulation takes place 36 hours after the start of the surge. They have NO CLUE when these people really ovulated. None. They are relying on self-reported information from inaccurate methodology and not even getting that right. Also, there were a whopping 5 people in the Dutch study who got diet correct and timing incorrect (1 girl, 4 boys = 80%) and a sample size of 5 proves absolutely nothing. I can flip 5 coins right now and I very well may get 80% heads - that does NOT prove that coin flips are 80% heads all the time.

Plus, they didn't even get timing right - the people weren't even told to abstain!!!

I'm not trying to go off on you, I just have to have the info on this site as accurate as I can because I am 10000% convinced that this blind and unquestioning faith in timing hurts people's sways.

[zanacal]

Congratulations nini!