after a success and an opposite, one more sway

[Kiwimaz]

Hi Atomic,

I'm back and on the fence about having one more baby and one more sway. After my success with my dd & opposite with my last baby I'm considering if I go again and what probably led to my opposite.
Things I didn't do with my last sway that I did with my dd:
One attempt all cycle
No O for me at the attempt
Using a little silk
2nd course of femara
Strict with diet, only brown rice (no white), no dairy except for the odd cheat
Regular sessions on my exercycle over 30mins duration
Salt lamp, painting my nails, lavender
Little to no supplements except q10 & folate.
5 months on diet vs 3mths.

I was quite open to another boy with my last sway so didn't obsess but at the same time think I relied too much on metformin & femara.
If we go once more I'm thinking to start diet next year (I'll be 40 next March) & try to conceive before I'm 41.

My questions:
Is there anything I should be doing now in terms of diet, exercise, supplements in the lead up? I'm trying not to lose too much weight currently so I have some to play with later (I was pretty low at both my last conceptions). I'm 5mths pp & still losing from the pregnancy.

I have enough femara for 6 cycles. Is there any benefit to taking it the cycle before your 1st attempt? As in, is that pinker? I stairstepped it with 2 rounds with dd (under Drs supervision & scans).

Hubby would be 38/39yrs old. He has high drive & has had top of the range count & motility on tests. What release pattern would be good? I think he'll be more cooperative if it's alot/compressed 🤣

Is iodine ok during the sway diet? It's recommended here preconception right through bfing because are soil is very deficient.

I felt like crap on 1500mg of met with my last sway & I'm not sure how well I'll do on it with 60mins exercise. Is 1000mg much different in terms of pink?

I got my dd conceiving with diet over spring/summer (easier for me in terms of diet, exercise and mood), got 2 opposites (my 1st was a very light sway as I didn't understand the diet I'm reluctant to really call it one) with diet in autumn/fall/winter. Does it make a difference? My sons were due in March, my daughter due in November, would it help to try and do the same as my dd at least in terms of when I do the diet?

Lastly, I've heard about inositol for eggs, pink & pcos. Would you have me take this now & during sway?

Thanks in advance!

[atomic sagebrush]

Hey, thanks for your patience, this has been an insane week here and I'm just unburying myself. If I don't get back to you within a day please bump this for me. Thank you.

[Kiwimaz]

Bumping for you.
Also, so you know when you answer on iodine, I currently take iodoral, the 6.25mg tablet halved, half a day, about 5x week. My thyroid labs are perfect on this.

[atomic sagebrush]

What I would do now is simply focus on eating mostly whole grains, limited sugar, and full fat dairy only, with no skim or part skim dairy. That way if you do end up deciding to try sooner, you'll have the biggies for the alternate LE Diet well in place AND it will also help with your egg quality.

Fine to do coq10 again. Iodine is fine provided you've checked that with your doc. I have many people taking that after they've been on diet 3+ months.

Virtually everyone takes a lower dose of metformin on this site, so the vast majority of our successful swayers are only taking 1000. It doesn't hurt your sway in any appreciable way.

I generally don't use both myoinositol and metformin. It's up to you if you want to try them together. I would be cautious only to use 1000 mg max of the myoinositol (it's marketed by some people in sky high doses) because the combo of myo + metformin may just lower your hormone levels too far and may make it harder for you to ovulate on the Femara and also to conceive. 1000 mg myo daily when you're not trying. In months you ARE trying, do 1000 mg myo from CD 1-ovulation, then switch to 500 mg myo or 1000 every other day. At BFP, gradually wean off by spacing doses further and further out till down to one per week, then you can drop them.

Do not take Femara in advance of the months you try. Over time, even Femara can cut the odds of conception (Clomid does that even more so) so you're wasting a month where you can get pregnant while using Femara, and lowering your chances of conceiving later on.

Given your age and that you'll be using Femara I think you should have your husband do regular release every 2-4 days and then aim at 1 attempt the first month (or possibly two, at your discretion) on the Femara. Then we'll go to e4d for the next 2-3 cycles on the Femara, then e4d plus one. On the final cycle with the Femara, you can try SMEP on that one to ensure you have the best chance of conception.

In the Southern Hemisphere where you live, we believe that there may be a slight bump in girl conceptions in Sept-Nov (anyone confused, please note that most of you live in the Northern Hemisphere where these peaks are reversed.) and boy conceptions in Mar-May. But this is NOT in any way a magic bullet - the statistical difference is minor, it's just interesting because of what it tells us about how swaying ~may~ work and not because it's something you HAVE to include in your sway. I got my daughter in the boy peak months (and both my mom and I were also conceived in boy peak) and two boys in girl peak months. It's just something that if it works out that way, great, but I"d not skip months on that basis at all.

[atomic sagebrush]

And oh gosh your avatar!! What a doll!

[Kiwimaz]

ok thank you that is good to know about the Femara.
My hubby is coming around to the idea of this more than I thought!
Those conception months your mentioned - I'm more comfortable repeating what I did with my dd because I'm sure the warmer months are easier for me to stick to the diet and exercise. I would also rather a spring due date than another fall/autumn baby. They get sick alot being young babies in the winter with older siblings bringing every germ home from school and preschool.
This means starting the diet in a few weeks as spring starts September here, or delaying another year basically. I will see what happens with a house situation we are in and also how my hubby feels. I know he has a bit of a worry about trisomies with my age.

So question, if still breastfeeding, is that a very useful sway tactic? I am pumping (650ml) a bit over a pint a day and the odd nightfeed. I understand protein requirements are higher when breastfeeding up to 20mg a day more so I'd think it'd sway. If still pumping would the daily limits or 50-60mg each fat and protein be raised?
He is about to start solids and also has formula to make up the deficit of what I pump. I'm not ready to quit yet but probably will be by the time we wanted to ttc.

[Kiwimaz]

I've searched the forums but it's a bit of a haystack- is diet soda good for dh too or just dw?
Are you still doing paid 1:1 coaching?

[atomic sagebrush]

Oh awesome, glad to hear he's getting on board.

That's totally fine re when to try - above all else I want you guys to do what works for you!

Hubbies do worry about health issues - just be sure it's a "real" concern as some of our husbands have used health worries to try to convince us not to proceed with a new baby, when maybe their concerns were a little bit more due to what they wanted. My husband really went on and on about health issues when he basically just didn't particularly want another baby, so I like to give you all a heads up about that.

I am convinced that nursing does indeed sway pink. There's a big long explanation here, let me know if you're interested in hearing it (basically because it gently suppresses fertility but you can still get pregnant while nursing)

I generally have people start off on extra calories when nursing/pumping (more like 1800-2000 or even beyond that, and suggest 50-60 g protein and fat) and then as a part of those extra calories, I will say something like "and if you need to up protein and fat slightly to hit those calories, it's ok". I don't have a firm guideline re fat and protein when nursing beyond that fairly generic one, because there is SO much variation in how much people nurse, how much they're eating, and their general metabolism. I wouldn't want someone who is nursing only once a day upping their fat and protein intake when they really don't need to do that, if that makes sense. So yes if you feel you do need more protein and fat to ensure you're still following an overall alt. LE Diet, by all means up it. I have more and more people lately even going to 65 g, so start off there with the 1800-2000 cals and see how it goes. We can always dial it back over time.

[atomic sagebrush]

I've searched the forums but it's a bit of a haystack- is diet soda good for dh too or just dw?
Are you still doing paid 1:1 coaching?

I honestly don't think it does a whole lot for anyone. It's said to be good for both.

RE the coaching, message me at atomicsagebrush@gmail.com so we can discuss that.

[Kiwimaz]

Well it didn't help my dh that his Dad has mentioned it a few times, and this in part may be due to a T21 niece of theirs but you'd think I had a 1:4 risk factor the way they said it. When it's more like 1:100 plus I have high ovarian reserve due to pcos that may also help me. But I think you're right, it's a useful excuse when they don't particularly feel the need for another baby. His comment was he feels complete with things the way they are (to which I said well I don't).

Yes please I'd like to hear more about breastfeeding & swaying.
He is 6mths now, on 3 meals a day and I've dropped from 5pumps a day to 3. I did read a study that found for most women, ovulation returned when nursing went under 60mins a day. I am double pumping though so that could be half that lol. I have Provera here as well as femara.

[Kiwimaz]

Do you still think probiotics sway blue? I usually take a 2 strain one that's 7 billion that really helps me. Some yoghurts contain more than that per serving, should you limit yoghurt too for pink?

[atomic sagebrush]

Yoghurt is fine for pink within limits of the diet, because while it's great for your upper digestive tract healthwise, the truth is not that much survives the stomach acid to get to your guts (and it's the gut bacteria that probably sways). Lots of people eat yogurt on LE Diet and have fine results. It's the probiotic pills that may sway blue and got poor results for us. What you can do, if you're benefiting from them, is reduce the dose to 3x a week instead of daily, or even just 1-2x a week. you're still getting some probiotics in your system, just fewer than before. That's a compromise that may work for you, though I don't have any data about it.

[Kiwimaz]

I've emailed you at Gmail about coaching.
I do have sm health issues for which I take certain things and I'm sure this has contributed to swaying blue for me and I don't want to undermine a pink sway hanging on to them. But zinc is tremendously helpful for me and b6, since giving up my b complex for swaying, I'm having terrible carpal tunnel. I've found relief from it with b6 in the past.
I'm quite sure high zinc/low copper is blue friendly & high copper/low zinc pink. What would be the maximum of either of those you'd be ok with for pink, if any. I'm weaning from 45mg zinc to 30mg to alternate days atm. The zinc dose has bn done under medical guidance. I feel my last sway may have failed bcz I held on to too many supplements so I'm very wary of it but don't want to suffer unnecessarily either.

[Kiwimaz]

Bumping for you, I want you to have plenty of input with this sway bcz I wanna do the best I can this time

[atomic sagebrush]

Yes, I recall them saying something about the copper thing on InGender but I don't ever want anyone to be high in anything, since high doses of things can be harmful. Everyone just aim at being in balance, not high levels of anything.

I agree with your assessment re your health - that has to come first. If you need supplements of those things, that is fine, but I never recommend more than 100% DRV (except Vitamin D and folic acid/folate). For zinc that is 18 mg, for copper, it's 900 MICROgrams (not milligrams! less than 1 milligram) Now, it may be that you need more than that, but that's just all I feel comfy with over the Internet.

What I generally have people do if they're on higher doses for health, is to take their regular dose but just fewer days per week. Fine if you'd like instead to take smaller doses every day, I do the "spaced doses" more because I don't want people to have to go out looking for smaller doses so I just have them take it all fewer days per week. The important thing is, less than you were taking. Your body will "notice" that reduction in nutrients, and even if you don't ever get as low as another person was taking, it's what is happening in YOUR body, in your environment that matters!!!

[Kiwimaz]

Yes, to clarify for anyone else reading this, I am NOT suggesting taking copper supplements for pink. I'm talking in regard to your zinc to copper ratio. Some people appear to need more zinc than others and without enough, copper can naturally rise. From what I understand, vegetarians often have higher copper levels as their diet is built around foods high in copper, ie nuts, seeds, legumes, some fruits and vegetables. Meat eaters take in more zinc from their diet and with that may elevate their zinc to copper ratio.
This would also be true of those taking supplements of zinc for whatever reason. As zinc goes up, copper can go down.
On LE & HE this probably happens naturally without any interference with supplements, plus if you're taking a multivitamin for blue, there may be extra zinc there without much added copper.
If you have heard of pyroluria, if untreated with zinc, is said to increase girls born.
Also I have heard birth control pills and stress can lower zinc/raise copper.
I dont feel well when my copper gets too high, it can cause depression, anxiety and bad PMS for some, so I take zinc to help that. Copper can increase conversion of dopamine to norepinephrine.
For swaying though, I will be trying to let that go for the few months on diet and is one reason why I'm choosing to sway over summer as my baseline mood is better overall and exercise more consistent!

[atomic sagebrush]

Thank you for clarifying - you would not believe the number of times someone will come to me doing something based on a statement they read in someone's post that they misunderstood, or didn't know the full story. :)