atomic sagebrush
February 29th, 2012, 08:04 PM
Edited and updated 12-8-17
PLEASE DO NOT DO ABSTAIN IF YOUR HUSBAND IS OVER 35.
Why?
There are really three separate variables in the equation - abstinence makes worse sperm (fact), older men's sperm is worse to begin with (fact), and older men father more children with birth defects and serious disorders like autism and schizophrenia to begin with (fact).
Net result : abstain + older dads = too risky for my liking. The older he is, the riskier it gets.
Please note, there are other things that can damage sperm and sperm DNA besides age, so if your husband has been diagnosed with poor sperm quality to begin with, drinks alcohol/smokes either reg. or special cigarettes, is obese, works around industrial chemicals/electromagnetic fields/nuclear energy, jogs a lot or bikes a lot, is a deep sea diver/anesthetist/radiologist/fighter pilot, takes drugs either recreationally or for medical purposes, or anything else going on that has you concerned about his sperm quality, you may want to consider choosing either FR or regular release instead of abstain even if he is less than 35. All those things are known to damage sperm.
Many people have believed that if their husband doesn't do anything that harms sperm health and he's in good overall condition, that it is ok for him to do abstain even if he is over 35. This is not the case. The issue with age and sperm health is not a man's overall health, it is the number of times his DNA has divided over the course of his life. Tiny errors in DNA replication sneak in over the course of time. The older a man gets, the more opportunities for DNA errors to accumulate. No matter how healthy a husband is, abstain is not a good idea, and the further beyond 35 he is, the more important it is that he avoid this tactic like the plague.
Abstain has not been getting stellar results for us anyway (worse than the overall stats of the site) and it is not worth any level of risk. Don't take chances for something that doesn't even work!!
:baby:Articles/studies that indicate abstinence makes poor sperm (the articles are actually talking about the studies, so I am posting them because I find the articles easier to understand for the layman, often have quotes and further information from the researchers themselves, and also because so many studies are impossible to find the full text of.)
Abstinence 'reduces sperm strength' - Telegraph (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/4196560/Abstinence-reduces-sperm-strength.html)
Will Abstaining From Having Sex Help Improve Sperm Count? (http://www.babyhopes.com/articles/abstaining.html) (also explains why FR makes fewer but better sperm)
Abstinence Reduces Sperm Viability in Infertile Men[/url] (states very clearly that long abstain is not recommended for any man, even with normal sperm count so when people on other swaying sites suggest abstaining longer than 14 days, beware.)
Relationship between the duration of sexual ab... [Fertil Steril. 2005] - PubMed - NCBI (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15950636) (this is the abstract on the study itself)
Semen analysis in fertile patients undergoin... [Sao Paulo Med J. 2005] - PubMed - NCBI (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16389413) (abstinence causes reduced sperm motility)
Effect of long abstinen... [Int J Fertil Menopausal Stud. 1994 Sep-Oct] - PubMed - NCBI (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7820161) (abstinence means more old sperm - senesence means "old age" aka senile!)
Influence of the abstinence period on human sp... [Fertil Steril. 2004] - PubMed - NCBI (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15236990) (this shows abstains less than a week are ok but very small number of subjects)
Influence of a short or long abstinence period... [Fertil Steril. 2001] - PubMed - NCBI (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11532469) (abstinence may even make sperm count go UP!)
:baby:Articles/studies that indicate older men have more genetic damage to sperm and/or lower sperm quality to begin with:
Male Fertility and Age – Does Age Affect Male Fertility (http://infertility.about.com/od/causesofinfertility/f/maleagefertile.htm)
Advancing age has differential effects on DNA damage, chromatin integrity, gene mutations, and aneuploidies in sperm (http://www.pnas.org/content/103/25/9601)
Relationship between age and semen parameters in ... [Andrologia. 2007] - PubMed - NCBI (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17430422)
Older Men's Sperm Raise Risk Of Genetic Problems In Offspring (http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/44641.php)
Older fathers run higher risk of fetal defects - 28 February 2002 - New Scientist (http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn1989-older-fathers-run-higher-risk-of-fetal-defects.html)
:baby: Articles/studies that show the offspring of older dads have more birth defects and other disorders including autism, bipolar, Down Syndrome, schizophrenia, cleft palate, dwarfism, Turner Syndrome, Kleinfelter Syndrome
(Atomic's editorial note - the sample size in some of these studies are HUGE, tens and even hundreds of thousands of subjects over many years and from many different countries - these risks are real and everyone should take them very seriously. It makes me not know whether to laugh or cry that some sway sites tell everyone to do O+12 based on a sample size of 33 (only 2 of whom DTD on O+12) and then belittle the risks of abstaining for older men abstinence=damaged sperm??? - In-Gender.com (http://www.in-gender.com/cs/forums/t/114759.aspx)) And just to further expand upon this, Tamara is giving an inexcusable amount of misinformation in this thread. You cannot see DNA damage through a microscope, period, end of story. Here is a link that describes how complicated it is to test sperm's DNA. http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1110569013000137 NOTE - they don't do it by looking for "black sperm" on a toy microscope. And if I sound ticked off about this, I am, because one of the women in this thread actually DID have a baby with a serious genetic health condition.
Advancing age has differential effects on DNA damage, chromatin integrity, gene mutations, and aneuploidies in sperm (http://www.pnas.org/content/103/25/9601)
Male biological clock possibly linked to autism, other disorders : Article : Nature Medicine (http://www.nature.com/nm/journal/v14/n11/full/nm1108-1170a.html)
Risk of autism spikes for children of older men (http://sfari.org/news-and-opinion/news/2011/risk-of-autism-spikes-for-children-of-older-men)
Older Fathers, Lower IQ in Kids? (http://www.webmd.com/baby/news/20090309/older-fathers-lower-iq-in-kids)
Schizophrenia.com - Schizophrenia Cause, Father's Age (http://www.schizophrenia.com/prevention/older.htm)
More bad news for the children of older fathers | Psychology Today (http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/about-fathers/200903/more-bad-news-the-children-older-fathers)
Older fathers run higher risk of fetal defects - 28 February 2002 - New Scientist (http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn1989-older-fathers-run-higher-risk-of-fetal-defects.html)
Paternal Age Effect: How Old is Too Old?: June 2010 (http://how-old-is-too-old.blogspot.com/2010_06_01_archive.html) (this appears to be an entire BLOG about the risks of older parenthood)
:baby: Aside from all this - abstain has not even worked for us!!! Why would you incur any level of risk for a sway tactic that actually is getting LOWER than our overall success rates of the site!!! DON'T do it!! It just isn't worth any risk for something that doesn't even help one bit.
:baby:And one final note - older men may have higher odds of conceiving a girl ANYWAY so why would you up your already higher risks doing abstain?? :think:
Why Are Older Parents More Likely to Have Daughters? | Psychology Today (http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/the-scientific-fundamentalist/201104/why-are-older-parents-more-likely-have-daughters)
PLEASE DO NOT DO ABSTAIN IF YOUR HUSBAND IS OVER 35.
Why?
There are really three separate variables in the equation - abstinence makes worse sperm (fact), older men's sperm is worse to begin with (fact), and older men father more children with birth defects and serious disorders like autism and schizophrenia to begin with (fact).
Net result : abstain + older dads = too risky for my liking. The older he is, the riskier it gets.
Please note, there are other things that can damage sperm and sperm DNA besides age, so if your husband has been diagnosed with poor sperm quality to begin with, drinks alcohol/smokes either reg. or special cigarettes, is obese, works around industrial chemicals/electromagnetic fields/nuclear energy, jogs a lot or bikes a lot, is a deep sea diver/anesthetist/radiologist/fighter pilot, takes drugs either recreationally or for medical purposes, or anything else going on that has you concerned about his sperm quality, you may want to consider choosing either FR or regular release instead of abstain even if he is less than 35. All those things are known to damage sperm.
Many people have believed that if their husband doesn't do anything that harms sperm health and he's in good overall condition, that it is ok for him to do abstain even if he is over 35. This is not the case. The issue with age and sperm health is not a man's overall health, it is the number of times his DNA has divided over the course of his life. Tiny errors in DNA replication sneak in over the course of time. The older a man gets, the more opportunities for DNA errors to accumulate. No matter how healthy a husband is, abstain is not a good idea, and the further beyond 35 he is, the more important it is that he avoid this tactic like the plague.
Abstain has not been getting stellar results for us anyway (worse than the overall stats of the site) and it is not worth any level of risk. Don't take chances for something that doesn't even work!!
:baby:Articles/studies that indicate abstinence makes poor sperm (the articles are actually talking about the studies, so I am posting them because I find the articles easier to understand for the layman, often have quotes and further information from the researchers themselves, and also because so many studies are impossible to find the full text of.)
Abstinence 'reduces sperm strength' - Telegraph (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/4196560/Abstinence-reduces-sperm-strength.html)
Will Abstaining From Having Sex Help Improve Sperm Count? (http://www.babyhopes.com/articles/abstaining.html) (also explains why FR makes fewer but better sperm)
Abstinence Reduces Sperm Viability in Infertile Men[/url] (states very clearly that long abstain is not recommended for any man, even with normal sperm count so when people on other swaying sites suggest abstaining longer than 14 days, beware.)
Relationship between the duration of sexual ab... [Fertil Steril. 2005] - PubMed - NCBI (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15950636) (this is the abstract on the study itself)
Semen analysis in fertile patients undergoin... [Sao Paulo Med J. 2005] - PubMed - NCBI (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16389413) (abstinence causes reduced sperm motility)
Effect of long abstinen... [Int J Fertil Menopausal Stud. 1994 Sep-Oct] - PubMed - NCBI (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7820161) (abstinence means more old sperm - senesence means "old age" aka senile!)
Influence of the abstinence period on human sp... [Fertil Steril. 2004] - PubMed - NCBI (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15236990) (this shows abstains less than a week are ok but very small number of subjects)
Influence of a short or long abstinence period... [Fertil Steril. 2001] - PubMed - NCBI (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11532469) (abstinence may even make sperm count go UP!)
:baby:Articles/studies that indicate older men have more genetic damage to sperm and/or lower sperm quality to begin with:
Male Fertility and Age – Does Age Affect Male Fertility (http://infertility.about.com/od/causesofinfertility/f/maleagefertile.htm)
Advancing age has differential effects on DNA damage, chromatin integrity, gene mutations, and aneuploidies in sperm (http://www.pnas.org/content/103/25/9601)
Relationship between age and semen parameters in ... [Andrologia. 2007] - PubMed - NCBI (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17430422)
Older Men's Sperm Raise Risk Of Genetic Problems In Offspring (http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/44641.php)
Older fathers run higher risk of fetal defects - 28 February 2002 - New Scientist (http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn1989-older-fathers-run-higher-risk-of-fetal-defects.html)
:baby: Articles/studies that show the offspring of older dads have more birth defects and other disorders including autism, bipolar, Down Syndrome, schizophrenia, cleft palate, dwarfism, Turner Syndrome, Kleinfelter Syndrome
(Atomic's editorial note - the sample size in some of these studies are HUGE, tens and even hundreds of thousands of subjects over many years and from many different countries - these risks are real and everyone should take them very seriously. It makes me not know whether to laugh or cry that some sway sites tell everyone to do O+12 based on a sample size of 33 (only 2 of whom DTD on O+12) and then belittle the risks of abstaining for older men abstinence=damaged sperm??? - In-Gender.com (http://www.in-gender.com/cs/forums/t/114759.aspx)) And just to further expand upon this, Tamara is giving an inexcusable amount of misinformation in this thread. You cannot see DNA damage through a microscope, period, end of story. Here is a link that describes how complicated it is to test sperm's DNA. http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1110569013000137 NOTE - they don't do it by looking for "black sperm" on a toy microscope. And if I sound ticked off about this, I am, because one of the women in this thread actually DID have a baby with a serious genetic health condition.
Advancing age has differential effects on DNA damage, chromatin integrity, gene mutations, and aneuploidies in sperm (http://www.pnas.org/content/103/25/9601)
Male biological clock possibly linked to autism, other disorders : Article : Nature Medicine (http://www.nature.com/nm/journal/v14/n11/full/nm1108-1170a.html)
Risk of autism spikes for children of older men (http://sfari.org/news-and-opinion/news/2011/risk-of-autism-spikes-for-children-of-older-men)
Older Fathers, Lower IQ in Kids? (http://www.webmd.com/baby/news/20090309/older-fathers-lower-iq-in-kids)
Schizophrenia.com - Schizophrenia Cause, Father's Age (http://www.schizophrenia.com/prevention/older.htm)
More bad news for the children of older fathers | Psychology Today (http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/about-fathers/200903/more-bad-news-the-children-older-fathers)
Older fathers run higher risk of fetal defects - 28 February 2002 - New Scientist (http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn1989-older-fathers-run-higher-risk-of-fetal-defects.html)
Paternal Age Effect: How Old is Too Old?: June 2010 (http://how-old-is-too-old.blogspot.com/2010_06_01_archive.html) (this appears to be an entire BLOG about the risks of older parenthood)
:baby: Aside from all this - abstain has not even worked for us!!! Why would you incur any level of risk for a sway tactic that actually is getting LOWER than our overall success rates of the site!!! DON'T do it!! It just isn't worth any risk for something that doesn't even help one bit.
:baby:And one final note - older men may have higher odds of conceiving a girl ANYWAY so why would you up your already higher risks doing abstain?? :think:
Why Are Older Parents More Likely to Have Daughters? | Psychology Today (http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/the-scientific-fundamentalist/201104/why-are-older-parents-more-likely-have-daughters)