How many attempts should I do and WHEN?? For pink and blue.

[atomic sagebrush]

UPDATE 12-9-17 - in the last essay in this series of essays (just scroll down!) is the how to on regular release + one attempt, every 4 days, every 4 days + one attempt, and SMEP!!! We've had tons of questions on those so hopefully this will help! These essays are really difficult to write, please let me know in the comments if anything is less than clear or what questions you have!!

One of the most common questions on the site is about how many attempts to do, why, and how. Let’s take a closer look and see if we can remove some of the stress and confusion from this topic.

Since I originally wrote this essay we have learned that for reasons we can only guess at, number of attempts actually DOES seem to sway!! One attempt seems to sway strongly pink, 3 attempts in the fertile window seems to sway strongly blue.

:think:How many attempts should I do?
It depends! (you knew I was going to say that, didn’t you??) More attempts in the fertile window means greater odds of pregnancy, higher sperm numbers may mean more sons conceived, higher pH in the vagina (semen will help raise vaginal pH) may also favor male conceptions, but at the same time, a lot of ineffective releases prior to the fertile window opening (O-3 through O Day, see more below) may lower sperm numbers overall and lead to more daughters conceived. It is a balancing act for each couple to find the right amount of BD to conceive while still swaying.

:think:Why would number of attempts sway?
We don’t know, quite honestly (you probably knew I was going to say that, too!). It may be that there is some primitive communication between sperm that sways in some fashion (perhaps Y sperm are better able to band together to gain some advantage in penetrating the egg and/or CM while X are better at going it alone or with only a few more sperm to assist), more sperm may signal Y sperm to capacitate more quickly than X or vice versa, more or a higher number of dead sperm, may cause changes in CM consistency that allow Y sperm to make it thru more easily than X (or vice versa), or it may be that the very tiny difference in size between X and Y sperm enables the slightly larger X sperm to penetrate the egg with less assistance while the smaller Y sperm may need more assistance.

You see, it takes the work of more than one sperm cell to penetrate an egg shell – if the egg shell is sufficiently weakened, a slightly smaller-headed sperm (Y) may have a momentary advantage over a larger-headed X sperm due to surface tension (for the same reason a sharpened pencil can be poked thru a piece of paper more easily than an unsharpened pencil.) Fewer sperm at the egg may confer a momentary benefit to a larger-headed X sperm because due to their larger size, they may be better able to push their way into the eggshell prior to it being totally weakened (the sharpened tip of a pencil is much weaker than the blunt tip of an unsharpened one). Or, it may be some combination of all of these things. Or something totally different all together.

But these are “proximate mechanisms” that explain how something might work. They don’t really answer the underlying question - the ultimate mechanism - the question of WHY would the number of sperm on hand sway to begin with?

I have wracked my brain to come up with an ultimate mechanism as to why sperm numbers could confer any evolutionary benefit to one gender over another, and I think I have a couple of decent possibilities. Please understand that this is sheer speculation on my part based on a half-dozen studies and some evolutionary biology books I have read, is discussing general trends and possibilities with plenty of exceptions, and is not meant to be in any way offensive to anyone. I debated on leaving this section out all together because I do not want to offend anyone, but I think one of the reasons why people like this site is because we do try to figure out the deeper reasons behind gender swaying rather than just going off blind faith that these tactics actually work for SOME reason. It also demonstrates how both very frequent and very infrequent intercourse might sway for both DH and DW, which I know is a sticking point for some people.

1)Dads Vs. Cads theory: When a guy is having a LOT of sex or NO sex, it sends the same signal to his body – he may not be in regular possession of a woman. This is often true in primates and also in many other mammals and some human cultures as well. Either he’s servicing a lot of women/one woman several times in a row over the span of a few days/weeks, possibly in the short term in a “hit and run” fashion, and may not be around in the future to provide protection and food to the family. Or, he got a one-time opportunity at a woman that he does not normally have access too, and again, may not be around in the future to provide protection and food to the family.

Female offspring tend to have better rates of survival than male offspring do (in nature, in primates) even when there is not a biological father around. This is firstly because they need fewer calories and less protein to survive/reproduce and their dietary needs can be better met thru gathering, which is typically a female endeavor, but also because when a new male takes over the troop/tribe/clan, he often kills all the male offspring while allowing the females to survive.
In a committed, long term relationship on the other hand, intercourse tends to occur regularly but not every day. Married couples under 30 report having intercourse 2 times a week on average; by 50-59 this rate falls to an average of once a week. Those between 30-50 fall somewhere between the two. Intercourse twice a week or so, averages out to be pretty close to the every 2-4 days that equates to max. sperm numbers and health and sways blue.

We have human studies that indicate more sons are born to people in stable, long term relationships and even one that indicated that families with more sons were less likely to divorce than those of all daughters. That having been said, many of the families I know with all daughters are in very loving and stable relationships and my now-husband and I were kinda rocky and not very committed when we conceived our first son, so I stress again that there are PLENTY of exceptions and this is not meant to be applicable to everyone or offensive to anyone.

2)Single Moms Need Daughters theory: When a woman is having little/no sex, it may send a signal to her body that there is not a man around regularly and as a result, there may be no protector/provider and a girl offspring would have a better chance of survival for the same reasons mentioned above. We have one study that indicates that this is true (single moms do have more daughters than the population as a whole) and actually Charles Darwin himself studied the issue in his book The Descent of Man and came to the same conclusion .

Women who are in short term, whirlwind relationships that may not be fully committed tend to have more sex in the short term than committed couples do, and so frequent intercourse may also signal the body that a girl offspring conceived during the haze of a fledgling relationship would have a better shot at survival, because the male has not proved himself to be a good protector/provider at that point. Our bodies may “know” on some subconscious level, that intercourse every 2-4 days may mean that a father is around to provide meat and protection to our sons.

Additionally, women may be able to sense and respond to the hormones that a partner provides and may even become more fertile in the presence of a male to whom she is not genetically related. Some research indicates that in a home with a stepfather, young girls even enter puberty at younger ages due to these hormonal signals. Things that increase fertility tend to sway blue.

Daughters themselves ~may~ be more of a helpmate to single mothers than sons are. In some primates and many species of birds (human mating patterns closely resemble that of many birds), teenage and adult daughters remain at home helping their mothers to rear siblings, while sons oftentimes are driven off. Primate daughters rear their offspring alongside their mother’s, while dutiful bird daughters actually forgo starting their own families to assist their mothers!!! This assistance from daughters may help to keep her mother and her siblings alive, so the timely birth of a daughter may help to ensure that the entire genetic line has optimal chances of survival.

[atomic sagebrush]

:bluesperm: Enough speculation!! Cut to the chase! What’s the best number and timing of attempts for blue?

For blue swayers, the answer to this question is very simple. Have your husband release every 2-4 days starting at AF, then do several attempts in your 5 day fertile window (O-3, O-2, O-1, O, O+1 – virtually all pregnancies occur from intercourse on these days.) Your best odds of conception come in the three day microwindow (O-2, O-1, O – majority of pregnancies occur from intercourse these three days, O-2 and O-1 more so than O Day. Most blue swayers will want to avoide O+1 because very few conceptions occur that day, and also to eliminate risk of O+12 (even though it doesn't even work!).

UPDATE: Please note, while O+1 is actually ZERO chance of conception, it is possible to get your ovulation day off by a bit so I do still encourage attempts even after you have ovulated. Some people, when they aren't sure if they have ovulated, may want to have attempts every other day (EOD) for a few days to a week after they think they have ovulated. When in doubt, keep doing EOD.

UPDATE - I strongly recommend even BD UNPROTECTED because in the years since I wrote this essay, we have seen a good study that showed unprotected intercourse with exposure to hubby's semen in your non-fertile phase boosts fertility and I believe it to sway blue. This is also what many, many of us moms of boys do naturally - have regular unprotected sex when we aren't fertile, and use protection or pull out when we are. I got 3 of 4 boys this way! We don't truly know how the number of attempts game even works and it may be via sperm communication, so it is possible that even attempts out of the fertile window may still be communicating to sperm in the fertile window in a kind of sperm "Telephone" game - O-5 batch "talks" to O-3 batch which "talks" to O-1 and O Day batch and then Y sperm wake up and X sperm stay dormant because of this!

Anyway, as a result, you may want to focus primarily on these three days – three attempts, one on each day of the microwindow (O-2 through O Day), is a great option (you can even skip the O Day attempt if you like because BD on O Day offers rather low odds of conception). On the other hand, since BD every other day may allow sperm numbers to increase inside your husband’s body before ejaculation, you may wish to alternate days instead if you feel more comfortable with that – such as, an attempt on O-3, 2 attempts on O-1, one on O day; or a 2 attempts on O-2 and then 2 attempts on O Day. There is no right or wrong way to do it.

UPDATE: What MOST blue swayers have done over the past couple years is a sort of compromise between the suggested attempts above and Shettles timing. They are having 3 attempts, one the night of first positive OPK, again the next morning (O Day), and then again the following night (O Day). This is generally what I've been recommending but the paragraph above does contain several alternate ways to accomplish our goal of 3 attempts in the fertile microwindow. Since many people are having trouble doing that morning attempt in particular, if you feel better about going O-2, O-1, O Day, by all means!

Limiting yourself to a single attempt at O for blue is (apologies Shettles fans) a terrible idea that may even sway PINK by limiting numbers of sperm and sending a signal to your and your husband’s bodies that a girl may have a better chance at survival. Timing doesn’t sway! http://genderdreaming.com/forum/gender-swaying-general-discussion/7691-trouble-timing.html If at all possible, YOU need to be having frequent orgasms and if you are having them WITH your husband during intercourse, that may help.

Blue swayers, do not worry about having 2-5 releases in a short time because you have heard that frequent BD sways pink - as long as you're in the fertile window, that is, and especially in that microwindow O-2 through O Day. First of all, it’s much more likely that frequent release for many days in a row followed by a limited number of attempts, sways pink, not BD 2-5 times in the fertile window. And DTD even 5 days in a row is NOT frequent BD anyway. Frequent release/BD has to be 7-10 consecutive days OR 2-3 releases for a few days before BEGINNING attempts (you may wish to read the directions for pink swayers so you know what NOT to do). There is a big difference between frequent release where a person’s DH releases 7-10 consecutive days in a row before doing only one attempt inside, and having 3-5 attempts INSIDE (or even more) after having had DH release every 2-4 days to maximize sperm numbers for many days before beginning attempts. In the first case you start off with lower sperm numbers and in the other case, you maximize numbers and then add to it! I have a more thorough explanation in this thread, not the first post but a few down the page. https://genderdreaming.com/forum/gender-swaying-general-discussion/58359-what-up-bd-thru-o-pink-lately.html

People who don’t really understand the basic principle of why FR sways (lowering sperm numbers) worry that by having so many attempts, they somehow give X sperm the upper hand. But this simply isn’t true, because it’s not about altering the numbers of X vs. Y (impossible!), it’s about lowering vs. maximizing sperm numbers. Both X and Y sperm are produced and released in equal proportions no matter how many attempts you do, so by doing more attempts, blue swayers, you’re adding more and more sperm to the amount being stored in your reproductive tract.

Not only that, but when you are swaying blue, you are doing everything in your power to up sperm survivability. Your husband is taking supps and releasing every 2-4 days to maximize sperm production, and you are taking supps, dieting, and altering your lifestyle to improve CM and up sperm survival rates. Not only are you starting off with more and healthier sperm coming from your DH to begin with, you’re then adding sperm by doing more than one attempt, and then you’re keeping the most sperm alive that you possibly can! Doing more than one attempt, in your fertile window (esp. the microwindow) under those circumstances WILL sway blue by upping numbers of sperm.

The one thing you do need to beware, blue swayers, is wasting a lot of effort on ineffective releases. It’s not a good idea to assume, well, if more sperm = more boys, we should start our BD at CD 1 and have sex every day thru ovulation. That may actually tend to sway pink because your earliest attempts cannot achieve pregnancy and all those sperm will simply die because your reproductive tract is hostile early in your cycle. Your husband’s sperm count will go down after several days of release, and then when your fertile window opens, it’s likely that he will no longer be producing as much sperm as he was at the beginning of the month, so even if you do more attempts to add more sperm, you’ll be adding fewer sperm than if he had released every 2-4 days before your attempts. It’s best to have your husband release every 2-4 days from CD1 thru when you want to begin your attempts to maximize sperm production, then limit your unprotected attempts to the fertile window.
Again, please read this thread (a few posts down I have a good explanation) https://genderdreaming.com/forum/gender-swaying-general-discussion/58359-what-up-bd-thru-o-pink-lately.html

:holysheep: Shocking advice – during the time when you are having your husband release 2-4 days, not only is it a great idea to have intercourse WITH him and have an orgasm, you may want to assist him either vaginally without a condom (as long as you’re not fertile right then) or orally (and swallow if you can!!) Some data has indicated that women are sensitive to chemical components in male semen and may even possibly be able to differentiate between semen of different partners – in other words, your body may be able to tell you are having regular intercourse with a consistent monogamous partner. This may help to send the signal to your body that a father figure, protector, and provider is around to guarantee survival of male offspring.

UPDATE - I now really really do recommend unprotected vaginal sex when outside of the fertile window even for people who are big believers in timing. I truly think it sways and at least one good study has shown it increases fertility, which should sway blue!!!!

UPDATE - Two more ways to possibly get boys!

Neither of these methods are timing-compatible. But timing does not work anyway!

Every Other Day Method (EOD) - While many of our blue sway hubbies have a lower sex drive, an important minority of couples with all girls are actually having daily intercourse. The hubby has a sky high sex drive and they generally have sex at least once a day if not more. This may lower sperm numbers and inadvertently sway pink despite having several attempts in the fertile window. Yet the husbands really, really REALLY do not want to have sex only every 2-4 days! And remember the cardinal rule of swaying - if Daddy ain't happy, ain't nobody happy!

So, for those couples I suggest having sex every other day during the times of the month you are not fertile and then still hitting it with the 3-5 attempts in the fertile window, especially the microwindow of O-2 thru O Day. It's not going to make quite as many sperm as releasing every 2-4 days will, but it will give him a day to recover in between batches and in a man with a high sex drive anyway, that is probably all these guys need!

I do want to stress that this is not a method for any man who does NOT already have sex every day. Men with lower sex drives need to select a different method because they will literally not be able to perform that much (don't worry, you can still get boys anyway!) that entails less frequent intercourse. The pitfall that occurs is that men exhaust themselves on attempts too soon and then you're in the fertile window with only one attempt and he can't go again!! We don't want this so please don't get overly ambitious and aim at a goal that you can't reach as a couple!

And Sperm Meets Egg Plan or SMEP: SMEP is just an all around good way to get pregnant - so good in fact that it sways blue. It's described here: Sperm Meets Egg Plan (http://www.pregnancyloss.info/sperm_meets_egg_plan.htm) It's really very much like the EOD Method but you don't start it as early and you don't go as long after you have ovulated. So if your hubby has a good sex drive, but maybe just not ~quite~ into the stratosphere, and/or you personally are just needing a break for at least part of the month LOL, give SMEP a whirl. Please note, you can find people who did SMEP and got girls, but this DOES NOT MEAN that SMEP sways pink. By all known theories of swaying (other than Shettles, which is totally debunked) SMEP sways blue because it ends up being more sperm to greet the egg, which is believed to sway strongly blue. Most people who do SMEP are dealing with serious fertility challenges all of which sway pink, so you can't just look at one person or two who got girls using SMEP and declare it's a pink tactic - it is not, not at all, and it is an outstanding way to get boys!

[atomic sagebrush]

:pinksperm:So what is the best number and timing of attempts for pink?

Pink swayers, things are a little more complicated for you. What works for one couple to lower sperm count enough to sway pink, in another couple will make it impossible to conceive. Deciding how many attempts to do can be like an episode of the Price is Right – you are trying to ensure you have enough sperm to conceive, without going over!! (you may want to read the blue section as well so you know what NOT to do.)

UPDATE: We now know without a doubt that it is best for pink to do ONE and only ONE attempt. You should drop ALL OTHER sway tactics (other than diet, exercise, and Clomid or Femara) before you add attempts. Drop timing, jellies, douches, antihistamines, frequency patterns, shallow release, hot baths, even pH supps before adding attempts.

In order to decide how many attempts to do, first ask yourself these questions.

:think:How big a hurry am I in to get pregnant? If you have a long time to try, you may wish to start off doing fewer attempts or even just one. Obviously, if you have only three months to conceive due to work or other issues, you will want to have more attempts to maximize odds of pregnancy. UPDATE: while one attempt is best, we do have safer ways to add attempts that will not kill your sway, I'll talk more about these below.

:think:What is my age and my husband’s age? If you are older, you need to get pregnant as quickly as you can because your reproductive window – meaning, the months and years left to you to conceive before menopause, not the days of the month you are most likely to conceive in - is closing rapidly. It may even take you longer to get pregnant doing nothing at all to sway because you may have to await a healthy egg if your body is not producing one every month. Older women’s eggs may not live as long, and their shells may be harder for sperm to penetrate. If your husband is older, his sperm count may be lower, his sperm may be less healthy, slower swimming, and may not live as long. Older couples may NEED more than one attempt to conceive at all.

Someone asked me to pin down "older" a little tighter here. Older means anyone over 35, really, BUT it's a sliding scale...obviously a 36 year old will have much more time left in her reproductive window than a 38 year old who will have much more time left in her reproductive window than a 40 year old. Most 35 year olds really do not need to be in a superhuge hurry to conceive, and can safely take a few months to try to play around with sway tactics that may cut odds of conception. But a 42 year old needs to be in it to win it right from the start and cannot, indeed SHOULD not, waste any time at all chasing sway tactics that do not work and really cut odds of conception. The older you are, the more focus you need to place on conceiving because if you don't get pregnant you have no chance of a baby girl.

:think:What else am I doing to sway? Unlike blue swayers, pink swayers are doing myriad things that lower sperm numbers and reduce sperm quality such as licorice root, hot baths, tighty whiteys, jump and dump, and abstinence/FR/CFR; reduce sperm survivability in the female reproductive tract such as jellies, antihistamines, douching, lime tampon, diet/supps, at home HT methods like EGS and TBM; and sometimes even lower odds that sperm will even meet the egg to begin with, such as timing methods like cutoff and O+12. You may need to do more than one attempt in your fertile window to allow the sperm a fighting chance. UPDATE: Please note that all the above things (except diet, exercise, and Clomid/Femara) have been shown to be ineffective and ALL should be dropped before adding attempts! One attempt is GOLD! Drop all this stuff before adding attempts!

Note – you may have read online fantastic tales about people who allegedly did every sway tactic under the sun 110% and claim to have gotten pregnant very easily despite this. Please take these stories with a grain of salt. This is the Internet and we have no way of knowing how truthful these reports are, not to mention that every couple is different and one person’s body may be so good at producing sperm/CM that they are able to conceive (and conceive opposites) despite doing a lot of other things to sway. Other people may have to forgo almost all sway tactics to conceive. This may be true for you even if you have conceived other children before very easily.

If you are on Clomid or Femara, you must do whatever it takes to get pregnant as quickly as possible, including doing more than one attempt in your fertile window, because it’s not healthy to stay on Clomid or Femara in the long term.

:think:How much weight do I have to lose and how easy is it for me to stick to diet? - If you have a lot of weight to lose you may want to start off doing a very strict sway with one attempt and be prepared to get BFN at first. Others have next to no weight to lose and need to get pregnant immediately because they cannot be on diet more than a few weeks, so should start off doing more attempts. Some people enjoy the LE Diet and are happy on it for months, while for others, it chafes at every meal and the risk of cheating skyrockets with every day that passes. If you are doing IGD or FGD, you can only stay on those diets for 6 months tops before having to take a month off anyway. You should consider all these things when deciding how many attempts you choose to do.

:think:How helpful is my DH? If your DH is not supportive of swaying and you are fearful that at any second, he’ll pull the plug on the entire let’s-make-a-baby adventure and drag you to a therapist, it may behoove you to do whatever it takes to keep him happy. If that means doing a lot of attempts in all the wrong patterns, DO THEM. Pick your battles – if you can’t get pg, you have no shot at your DG and you can’t get pg alone. There has been more than one occasion where the husband simply had enough with swaying and said, “No more.” :hair:

At the same time, if your husband is super helpful and taking his licorice root, wearing tighty whiteys, taking hot baths, riding a bike, abstain or FR, and so on, :superhero: you may NEED to do more than one attempt to get pg because his sperm numbers will be so much lower than they were to begin with. Anyone whose husband has low sperm count to begin with, also may need to do more than one attempt to improve odds of pg. But hey, maybe you still want to give it a whirl and see what happens if you have the time to spare.

:think:How devastating will it be for me to get a BFN? Most swayers start off thinking that it will be ok to get BFN. Some even make claims that they are willing to go from now until menopause getting BFN rather than compromise on their sway. But as the months begin to go by, it really takes a toll to see those BFN pile up. You can have the most beautiful sway on the planet and if you do not get pregnant, it is all for nothing – you may as well save your effort and take a birth control pill. People get opposites even from “perfect” sways all the time unfortunately, and it may be a good idea to get pg sooner, rather than later, because there are no guarantees. It would suck to take two years to conceive and still get an opposite (and yes, this actually did happen to several people.)

Sharing my perspective, I was in a big hurry to do my attempt when swaying for DS 4 due to my age, and got pg very quickly while many others, even other older moms, who were swaying at the same time as I was, went for all “7 sway factors” and took much longer on average to conceive than I did (some never did conceive, unfortunately). I heard thru the grapevine that some thought I deserved what I got because I “compromised” my sway by being in too big a hurry to get pregnant, but in the end I had time to try again and did get my girl (and a truly spectacular little DS 4 as well!)

If I had wasted even a little more time swaying with DS 4, getting pg with DD would not have happened for me. This is especially true for those moms who are in their mid to late 30’s – swaying cannot guarantee 100% success no matter how thorough a sway you do, and so it may be wiser to compromise in favor of conception, rather than squandering months/years trying to have a “perfect”sway, since even “perfect” sways may produce opposites. You’ll ensure you’ll still have time to try again (even if you don’t think you will, at least the option will be there).

This is actually something to consider seriously even in your early 30’s. I know it’s hard to believe at 34 that you don’t have a lot of time left, but it really is true. 2 years of swaying plus 2 years pg with an opposite and recovery from childbirth can easily put you at 38 years old in the blink of an eye. Please don’t waste precious time from your fertile window, chasing after sway tactics that may not even sway much if at all! One attempt works. Timing, frequency, pH do not, plus all those things make it very difficult to conceive. I beg ya, do the things that work, let go of the things that don't. Our results have proven definitively that it is entirely possible to get pregnant within 3 months average and STILL have 70% and better success rates!!

[atomic sagebrush]

By now, pink swayers, you probably have a pretty good handle on the number of attempts you’re going to aim for, so I’ll lay out some examples and options of how you combine all these things together.

UPDATE - I cannot stress strongly enough that sitting here in 2017 revising this essay - one attempt is GOLD. Timing and frequency and pH are crapola. So please do not be tempted, reading this essay, to ditch one attempt in favor of timing and frequency. We tried this and it was our worst results of the site. When we shifted focus to one attempt our results went up and have stayed up ever since. One attempt is most important. Do not keep old school sway tactics and add attempts!!

You ~may~ want to have your husband reduce sperm numbers by frequency patterns IF he is willing to do so and you are not in a huge hurry to conceive. If not, that’s ok, you can have a great sway and many people have conceived girls doing boy frequency pattern (such as regular release or EOD) + one unprotected attempt. And remember, you are not locked into any of these tactics. You can start off doing a very strict sway and then loosen up over time, or you may find that something you thought would work for you as a couple, you or DH simply do not enjoy doing. Feel free to switch, it’s not written in stone!

:think:What are the options for pink swayers?

:princess: Abstain + 1 attempt: If you choose to do abstain, you are pretty much limited to one attempt by definition. I think it is best to time that attempt for maximum odds of pregnancy (timing doesn’t sway!) Your best odds of conception are at O-2 and O-1, and since BD at positive OPK (O-1) tends to be much less stressful for people rather than blindly guessing at O-2, my advice is to BD once at pos OPK with abstain. If you are really sold on Shettles, then you’ll want to try for an attempt on O-2.

When swaying pink, your internal environment is so harsh to begin with that it is very difficult to get pregnant with BD on O-3, but if you’re not doing anything else to sway, you can give that a try. I really don’t recommend that, however. You may be able to use a fade in on your OPK to help you pinpoint O-2, but these are not always accurate or even present.

If you’re sold on O+12, BD 48 hours after a positive OPK (this is the least stressful method of O+12). Again, I do not recommend this method (like seriously, AT ALL, O+12 is my least fave sway tactic that there is) particularly with abstain, because sperm just may not be very healthy or capable after many days of abstaining and may not be able to make it to the egg in time, and it limits your odds of pregnancy drastically because many eggs don’t even live much longer than 12 hours past ovulation.

Note – you may notice I am skipping BD on O day for anyone doing just one attempt. The reason for this is nothing to do with timing, but simply because BD on O Day has significantly lower odds of conception than BD on O-1 or O-2. When you’re doing one attempt you need to time that attempt for best odds of conception and BD on O Day does not give you best odds. Plus, since it’s traditionally a blue sway tactic, it seems doubtful that anyone being strict enough to limit themselves to one attempt would even want to BD on O Day. Even tho timing doesn’t sway, I know that many people do want to keep it in the mix.

:princess: FR + 1 attempt: If you choose frequent release instead, you may wish to limit yourself to one attempt. I personally believe attempt at pos OPK is easiest, but you have equally good odds of conception on O-2. Have DH release 7-10 times before your attempt. Do NOT count your attempt in the 7 days (see below).
Since sperm are generally healthier with FR than abstain, you may even wish to push it to O-3 for the first month or two – not my advice, but it is possible.

O+12 may have better odds of conception with FR than abstain – not my preferred method by a longshot but it may be slightly easier to conceive doing O+12, with FR, rather than abstain.

:princess: FR + many attempts: UPDATE: I can no longer in good conscience recommend this method for the reasons I have spelled out in this thread, not the first post but a few down the page. https://genderdreaming.com/forum/gender-swaying-general-discussion/58359-what-up-bd-thru-o-pink-lately.html If you read the TTC blue section, you may recall the fertile window – the 5 days around ovulation where intercourse is most likely to yield conception. (O-3, O-2, O-1, O, O+1.) And you may also recall the microwindow (O-2, O-1, and to a much lesser extent, O Day) which are the days most likely to yield conception. If you are doing FR, you have the option of having attempts on more than one of these days in the fertile window in whatever pattern you like. 2 days, 3 days, all 5 days, alternating days, 10 attempts in 5 days – it’s up to you. There are so many options (prob. with as much difference between them as a dime vs. 2 nickels) that I won’t even list them, but I do strongly urge you to BD on either O-2 or O-1 or both for the best odds of pg.

Be sure that you have your DH release 7-10 days in a row before your FIRST attempt. There is nothing magic about just DTD 7 days in a row, you have to deplete his sperm numbers by having him release 7-10 days PRIOR to attempts. Some people have thought to include their attempts in this 7-10 day time period, but this has the potential to sway blue because DH will only have a couple of releases before the earliest attempts that might get you pregnant. His sperm numbers will just not be depleted enough without the FULL 7-10 days of release before the earliest attempt in your fertile window.

:princess:Compressed FR + 1 attempt or many attempts: UPDATE: I can no longer in good conscience recommend this method for the reasons I have spelled out in this thread, not the first post but a few down the page. https://genderdreaming.com/forum/gender-swaying-general-discussion/58359-what-up-bd-thru-o-pink-lately.html You can use this as a technique itself, or as a rescue if something happens and either abstain or FR goes awry. For CFR, you will need to begin the process at least 2 days before the earliest attempt that can get you pregnant. Earlier in the month, have your husband release every 2-4 days to ensure there will be a good amount of sperm production going in – no need to abstain or do regular FR beforehand and it may even deplete sperm numbers too far to do so. The first two days of the CFR cycle, the 2 days prior to your earliest attempts, have your husband release 2-3 times (or even more if he can, more is better) and dump all these batches.

The third day, have him release once in the morning and dump it. If he CAN, have him release right when he gets home from work (or in the afternoon if it’s his day off) and dump that. Then, that evening, have your attempt, either a single attempt or the first of many. If you want to do many attempts with CFR, at some point you will want to drop the mid-day release. Your husband probably will not be able to keep up with that much releasing and also it may reduce sperm numbers too far.

To use CFR as a rescue with abstain + 1 attempt, if something happens (nocturnal emission or a moment of weakness) and the abstain is interrupted, have him switch to CFR 2 days before your planned attempt. Have him release 2-3 times for 2 days, then have your attempt, with a release in the morning, a release at midday, and then an attempt that evening. Since you’re only doing one attempt, you may want to skip the midday release.

If it’s the last minute and your attempt is within 48 hours (not enough time to complete the CFR cycle) please see “Hurry-Up CFR” below.

To use CFR as a rescue with FR (illness, exhaustion, you got interrupted one night by children, inlaws, or zombies) if you miss a day, have him release 2 times for 2 consecutive days and then resume the normal FR pattern. If it’s the last minute and your attempt is within the next day, please see “Hurry-Up CFR” below.

:princess: Hurry-Up CFR: I don’t love this technique because I think it may lower sperm numbers too much to overcome lots of other sway strategies, and it’s also very hard and stressful for some men to do (esp. while on licorice root!) BUT, it is a viable rescue method, as a last minute technique if you suddenly decide to attempt in a month you were planning to skip, and may be something to consider if your husband just really cannot or will not do any other frequency strategies. If you do decide to go with H-CFR, keep in mind that you may not want to use any jellies, might want to skip antihistamine (at least the day of your attempt) and you prob. should not do a jump and dump, to make sure that something is able to survive make it into the cervix. It may not be very much of a deposit and may not have as much semen to protect the sperm (also fewer in number) and so you need a less harsh environment for the sperm to survive in.

To do an H-CFR, DH should release once and dump it, then as SOON as he is possibly able to, you should have an attempt. Don’t go any more than 3-6 hours between rounds and sooner is better. This will yield a small batch of semen with fewer sperm in it.

:princess: Abstain then CFR: Again, this is not a strategy I personally love, for the reason that abstaining and then getting a lot of sex may kick sperm production into a higher gear for some men and so then your subsequent attempts run the risk of being higher in sperm numbers than they might have otherwise been (and it will all be super fresh and extra healthy, because your husband’s body had shut down most sperm production during the abstain). But for people who want to include timing and have a cutoff AND O+12, it is a way to keep abstain and timing both in the mix if you are a big believer in those strategies, while still improving odds of pg. Please be aware, if you go this route with O+12, the odds are quite high that it will be the first batch of sperm that gets you pregnant and not the O+12. If you LOVE O+12, then you need to do just O+12.

For abstain with cutoff plus O+12 have your husband abstain for 7-10 days prior to your first attempt. Have your first attempt on O-3 or O-2 with the abstain batch (do NOT have him release and then dump it, use the abstain batch for your one attempt). Have your husband immediately switch to CFR and begin releasing 2-3 times a day for the next couple of days. Dump all these batches. 48 hours after a positive OPK, have another attempt using the second batch of that day (dump the first.)

For abstain and then BD thru O, have your husband abstain for 7-10 days prior to your first attempt. The timing of your first attempt is at your discretion. O-3, O-2, O-1 are all viable options. You may even wish to have two attempts back to back within 3-6 hours (see Hurry-Up CFR above). The next day, have DH release 3 times, dumping the first two and using only the last batch for insemination (it is possible to use the second batch instead, but with this method it’s best to at least TRY for three releases the first day, anyway). Repeat for as many days as you like, keeping in mind that any attempts past O+1 will be wasted. If at some point after a day or two, he can’t keep up the pace, you can switch to just doing 2 releases, but it’s best for at least the first couple days after the abstain, to try for 3 releases, using only the third. Again, I do not recommend anyone do this because we've had such overwhelmingly good results with one attempt.

IMPORTANT UPDATE: In the time since I originally wrote this essay, one attempt has shown itself to be BY FAR superior to frequency/timing, and so as a result I suggest dropping ALL other sway tactics BEFORE adding attempts.

[atomic sagebrush]

BUT WAIT, THERE'S MORE!!!

In the 5 years since I originally wrote this essay we have a humongous body of data compiled and we have actually found safer ways to add attempts and boost odds of conception without totally undoing a pink sway.

Remember, it's best to drop ALL other sway tactics except diet, exercise, and Clomid or Femara if you can get them, before adding attempts. But let's say you've done that. Now what? You're still not getting pregnant and something's gotta give. So let's go over what we do next to get you preggo, and how to add attempts without inadvertently swaying blue.

:princess: Regular release or EOD plus one attempt: Just have your hubby release on his own or with you, with a condom, every 2-4 days starting as far in advance as is feasible (since sperm take 72 days to form, even a month or more in advance is not overkill here). And then keep the one attempt at positive OPK or a cutoff if you MUST. If he has a very high sex drive you can even have him release every other day (EOD) plus one attempt - obviously this is not going to be as high of a chance of conception as regular release + one attempt but it's better than abstain or FR!

Why do this? Well, in the 5 years since I wrote this original series of essays, it has become blatantly obvious that frequency patterns like abstain and FR are NOT working and one attempt really IS. So it makes sense to let go of the stuff that isn't working (in this case, frequency) given that the frequency patterns really do cut odds of conception hugely and make hubbies super duperly cranky to boot, and focus on boosting our chances of getting pregnant with the magical one attempt. Especially if you are in any hurry to conceive due to age, work needs, family spacing, or so on, regular release (or EOD to a lesser extent) plus one attempt is something to seriously consider.

Or if you really really believe in pH or timing but you're willing to let go on frequency, this can be a good compromise between keeping things you want in your sway, and letting go on things that aren't working anyway and still being in with a chance of conceiving!

Someone asked me how many days prior to one attempt should you avoid having unprotected sex. I would give it 4 or even 5 days to be on the safest side. We are not totally sure how one attempt works, and if it is some sort of primitive communication between batches of sperm, it may be best to be absolutely certain everything is dead before having the one attempt and 4-5 days should accomplish that. If you're really paranoid, longer would be better but given that we've had good results with e4d (see below) I believe 4-5 days is enough of a gap between unprotected, non-fertile sex and your one attempt.

:princess: Every 4 days method (e4d): First of all let me stress that there is NOTHING magically delicious about having unprotected sex every 4 days. It doesn't matter if you do this method with 3 days in between BD rounds or 4 days in between BD rounds. The "every 4 days" term is just a name, it's just an easy and effortless way to be in with regular attempts that are far enough apart to pretty much qualify as one attempt.

You can do e4d in a Monday/Thursday (O-3/O Day) pattern or a Monday/Friday (O-4/O Day) pattern. I hope it is obvious you do not need to stick to those days, I'm just trying to illustrate the pattern here - could just as easily be Tues/Fri or Wed/Sun or whatever. Which option to pick depends on what YOU personally have as your main priority in your sway. If you are wanting a better pink sway and are ok with somewhat lower odds of conception, go with the O-4/O Day pattern (again, does not need to be on these days, it's illustrating the pattern - could also be O-5 and O-1 or O-6 and O-2). If you are wanting better odds of conception and possibly lower odds of pink then go with the O-3/O Day pattern (or O-4/O-1, O-5/O-2). Pick whichever option meets your needs best.

How to do e4d: Start the day after your period ends or if you're taking Clomid or Femara, the day after your last dose. You are NOT trying to make your attempts fall on any particular day. I repeat, DO NOT try to make your attempts land on any particular day. You want this to be effortless and to mostly forget about the pattern all together.

Very important - keep going with the pattern even after you think you've ovulated. Do NOT stop having unprotected sex every 4 days until you are absolutely positively certain you have ovulated, even if that means going all the way till your next AF begins (or BFP, whichever comes first.) Also very important - do NOT wait till the last possible minute to begin. Start the pattern before you could possibly be in the fertile window. Don’t wait till CD 11 or whenever because not only is it kind of last minute stress-y, but it also makes it much more likely you could end up missing your fertile window entirely.

With e4d, you want the element of randomness on your side. You cannot ever know when you’ll ovulate (and even if you’re super regular, swaying changes that) and you cannot ever know what day of the cycle is really best for you to get pregnant on. So it’s really easy to outwit yourself aiming e4d at a particular day thinking that is the best day to conceive, when it really may be the next day or two days before. Just pick a day at random (like the day your period ends or the day you take your last dose of Clomid/Femara) and then put it out of your mind.

Another possible use for e4d - I often have people who want to try with one attempt at pos OPK or with a cutoff, do every 4 days only AFTER their attempt. This is a protective measure against delayed ovulation. Just keep going with every 4-5 days or so and that way if your ovulation is delayed by a week or even two, you’re still in with an attempt, you haven’t lost the entire month!!

If you are just getting started with trying to conceive and can’t get OPK to work or you just don’t want to be bothered with them, you can stretch this out to every 5,6,7 days. It’s obviously not going to be the best chances of conceiving, but it definitely be one attempt (without having to mess around tracking cycles and doing OPK tests) and you’ve still got a chance of catching the egg!

Do NOT do "e3d" unprotected every 3 days (also called EOD). This has caused endless amounts of confusion and people typically ended up doing every other day (EOD), which is both likely blue friendly and is not even good odds of conception. E3d can easily end up being attempts on O-5, O-3 and O-1 (which is really just one viable attempt, since O-3 attempts are not great at getting people pregnant) or O-6, O-4, and O-2 (which is definitely one attempt since O-4 and O Day are slim odds of conception). And since we don’t actually know how one attempt sways, the every other day BD still very possibly qualifies as 2-3 attempts, which sways blue. It’s the worst of both worlds. E3d needs to be dropped from our swaying terminology as a term that does no good and much harm. If you don't get pregnant with e4d then go to e4d plus one (see below) or even SMEP (also below) instead of e3d. At least you’ll get pregnant that way!!

:princess: Every 4 day method plus one: If you've tried one attempt and tried every 4 days AND dropped all the ineffective sway tactics you can but still haven't gotten pregnant, try doing e4d plus one. This means you do BOTH e4d and one attempt (usually at positive OPK). Start the e4d after your period ends or right after your last dose of Clomid or Femara, and continue on with e4d for the rest of the month, even after you think you've ovulated, to guard against delayed ovulation.

Then, in addition to that (continuing with the same e4d pattern the entire time! don't change the e4d pattern when you have your pos OPK attempt!) you should have one more attempt at positive OPK or on the day you expect O-1 to fall whenever that may be. If that is the day you're due for your e4d attempt, while you can stick with that e4d attempt if you so choose, I'd suggest having another attempt anyway, that night or the next morning or the following night. After all, we are doing e4d plus one to boost odds of conception and you aren't boosting your odds if you won't have another attempt!!

If you were doing e4d in the Mon/Thurs, O-3/O Day pattern, you may want to stretch it another day to Mon/Fri, O-4/O Day when adding the additional attempt at pos OPK or O-1. But you don't have to, and in fact most people don't.

I would give this method at least 2-3 months with NO other sway tactics (other than diet, exercise, and Clomid or Femara if you can get them) before finally moving on to SMEP (see below) You may even consider adding in things that can boost your chances of conception with e4d plus one before moving on to SMEP. I’m talking about Preseed, guaifenesin, female orgasm, and dropping jump and dump totally. You may want to stay laying down for 30 minutes to an hour after intercourse or even overnight, and spending at least part of that time on your tummy instead of your back. There is NO RUSH to go to SMEP; e4d plus one should have very good chances of conception anyway.

Make absolutely totally sure you have dropped shallow release . I often find that people continue shallow release even after having dropped everything else and even added some things that sway blue!! Shallow release has never even been proven to sway and it cuts odds of conception massively.

Finally, if you’ve tried everything else and still haven’t gotten pregnant,

:princess: SMEP: Aka the Sperm Meets Egg plan. You can find more about SMEP here Sperm Meets Egg Plan (http://www.pregnancyloss.info/sperm_meets_egg_plan.htm) This is the best chance to get pregnant. It tends to sway blue, but you can find people who conceived girls on it (because remember, swaying never comes down to one thing!)

At such a point in time when you have dropped all the less effective sway tactics like timing, pH, frequency, etc and you’re sure you haven’t lost too much weight (you’ve even relaxed on diet and exercise) and you’’ve already tried all the other available options including e4d and e4d plus one, then and only then should you go to SMEP. SMEP is NOT the first line of defense, it is the last ditch effort to try when you have tried literally everything else first. I would rather see you guys adding in Preseed and guaifenesin than doing SMEP.

People will sometimes come to me and tell me they know someone who got a girl doing SMEP and because of this, they want to try it right from the start, or very early along in the sway process. And I simply do not think it’s a good idea. Everything I’ve seen along the way these past 7 years tells me it’s not a good idea. People can and DO get girls doing SMEP but it is often after having tried to conceive for a long time and generally speaking they have underlying fertility challenges. The results will be very different for a couple who is fully or even highly fertile. So while it’s always your sway, your way, and I have used SMEP (successfully) for some pink swayers in the past who had been trying to conceive for ages, it is not something I will ever sign off on for the average person - even if you do know 100 people who got girls that way!!

[atomic sagebrush]

No, it's not too close, it's just that most people don't have CBFM and for the majority I think it's easiest to BD at pos OPK.

The study that we have that showed O-1 had better rates of conception, didn't break it down to the hour, KWIM?? I think that anytime before ovulation is great for conception, whether it's 20 hours or 8 - the point is that the sperm have time to make it to the egg BEFORE ovulation and they're waiting there with some of them capacitated. That's how people get pg. This 'race to the egg' Shettles boy-timing/O+12 bizness does not make for good rates of pregnancy.

If you are doing straight FR, you do not need to have him release before your attempt and in fact if you did it might cut down on your odds of pg too far with everything else you're doing.

Sudafed 1-2 hours before BD.

[Hobbermittens]

I wish this essay was around before I did my sway...:worry: I would have done things differently.

[nicoler]

Thank you so much Atomic!! This is just what I needed to read to help me make decisions for my upcoming sway :happy:

[amari]

Thank you! Pardon my ignorance, is this different than before?

[atomic sagebrush]

I wish this essay was around before I did my sway...:worry: I would have done things differently.

I'm so sorry Hobber. I don't think I could have written it much before now because I didn't have it all fleshed out in my mind well enough. :( I hope you can forgive me.

edited to add - she got a boy, which was what she wanted and had swayed for. Diet and exercise WORK even when you can't get the frequency stuff right

[atomic sagebrush]

Thank you! Pardon my ignorance, is this different than before?

Different than what?

[zanacal]

Great essay :D

[Hobbermittens]

I'm so sorry Hobber. I don't think I could have written it much before now because I didn't have it all fleshed out in my mind well enough. :( I hope you can forgive me.

I'm not mad at you! It isn't your fault. I just feel like the ideas that were bouncing around a few months ago were more of the "DTD every other day" variety, which we did, but then I may have O'ed early which cut our attempt short. I just wish I had DTD more days in the fertile window. If I end up with a boy, it won't matter, but I am pretty sure I am having a girl, and frequency of DTD is my one huge regret. :( I think the site is so new, there will be new things all the time that will make me think "Oh, yeah, I should have done THAT!" as new research comes out.

[zanacal]

DTD every other day got me plenty of boys Hobbers, still got my FX for you!

[Lassie1982]

Great essay Atomic, love your work :bowdown:

Our first 2 cycles were failures, so i definitely think we need to stick DTD more often. Which of these options would you suggest I do?

(DH is taking LR (AF-O), we are both taking cranberry, im taking zrytec, and using rephresh and sylk, plus strict LE diet)

Option 1
- DH has 10 FR followed by DTD on o-3, o-2, o-1, and o

Option 2
- DH has 7 FR followed by DTD on o-6, o-4, o-5, o-3, o-2, o-1, and o

Im guessing option 2 is more 'conception' friendly? But which, if either, is more pink sway friendly???

[atomic sagebrush]

I'm not mad at you! It isn't your fault. I just feel like the ideas that were bouncing around a few months ago were more of the "DTD every other day" variety, which we did, but then I may have O'ed early which cut our attempt short. I just wish I had DTD more days in the fertile window. If I end up with a boy, it won't matter, but I am pretty sure I am having a girl, and frequency of DTD is my one huge regret. :( I think the site is so new, there will be new things all the time that will make me think "Oh, yeah, I should have done THAT!" as new research comes out.

Plus I am always plagued with the dilemma of how much people really are willing to or want to change, KWIM?? Like I keep erring on the side of trying to keep things somewhat similar to traditional swaying (whether or not I think it's really best to do or not) because I think people don't want to change that much, and maybe I just need to stop doing that. :/

[atomic sagebrush]

Great essay Atomic, love your work :bowdown:

Our first 2 cycles were failures, so i definitely think we need to stick DTD more often. Which of these options would you suggest I do?

(DH is taking LR (AF-O), we are both taking cranberry, im taking zrytec, and using rephresh and sylk, plus strict LE diet)

Option 1
- DH has 10 FR followed by DTD on o-3, o-2, o-1, and o

Option 2
- DH has 7 FR followed by DTD on o-6, o-4, o-5, o-3, o-2, o-1, and o

Im guessing option 2 is more 'conception' friendly? But which, if either, is more pink sway friendly???

There is honestly no way to know and it would probably be different for each couple in each month anyway. Both of those options are pink-friendly to me and I think it's totally a toss up.

[dramabird]

Great essay Atomic, love your work :bowdown:

Our first 2 cycles were failures, so i definitely think we need to stick DTD more often. Which of these options would you suggest I do?

(DH is taking LR (AF-O), we are both taking cranberry, im taking zrytec, and using rephresh and sylk, plus strict LE diet)

Option 1
- DH has 10 FR followed by DTD on o-3, o-2, o-1, and o

Option 2
- DH has 7 FR followed by DTD on o-6, o-4, o-5, o-3, o-2, o-1, and o

Im guessing option 2 is more 'conception' friendly? But which, if either, is more pink sway friendly???

FWIW, Lassie, we're aiming for closer to option 1 this month. Starting with CD1 of my cycle, DH has been releasing and discarding twice a day. Starting on the evening of CD10, we're planning to have his evening release be with me (y'know, DTD). It'll depend on when I ovulate as to what "0 minus" that'll be (0-4, 0-3, etc.), but I would say we should hopefully get in a fair number of attempts.

The way I figure it, the longer it takes to get pg, the easier it'll be to start slipping from the principles of the diet. So throwing if throwing in some extra attempts means the diet is stronger during the successful cycle, it's worth it.

GL! What cycle day are you on?

[Lassie1982]

Thanks AS and Drama :)

Im on CD2, but not attempting this cycle as DH will be away at the crucial time :(

So May it is! I have a good feeling about May :)

:fx: drama that this is your month!!

[NewYorkmom]

This is the one aspect of my sway I'm really questioning/regretting. We did the deed at 7am after abstaining for a week and then did the deed later that afternoon. I'm really hoping the Rephresh, AciJel, and my husbands hot showers lowered his sperm count enough. I know there is no way of knowing, but I really hope attempts don't weigh that much into a sway.

[atomic sagebrush]

I really, really do not think they do NYM. In the real world, most people do neither abstain 7-10 days OR FR 7-10 days...they BD whenever they're in the mood to, and both boys and girls keep right on being conceived!

I conceived this baby girl after BD every 4 days, ideal for a boy! Plus, think of all the failed blue sways where people were BD every 2-4 days...it just can't be swaying that much.

[Ribbons]

Thanks atomic!! This is great - I'm needing to plan this part of my sway out now, since it's just a few weeks away from first attempt.

I am concerned about FR with my DH tho, LR seems to REALLY reduce his semen output, even after 2-3 day abstain, so I am a little worried about my original plan to FR 7 days then DTD on O-2, twice on O-1, once on O... he is only taking LR AF-O and he says he can definitely feel the difference - do you think we should change anything if his semen is really low? (He hasn't tried FR yet so I'm not sure how much more it will reduce his output).

I'm still on the fence about Rephresh, won't be doing antihistamines, so it's just diet and Vitex and LR/FR for me (I REALLY want to get pregnant first month, can you tell?! LOL)

[Ribbons]

shameless bump :)

[Cinss]

Thank you Atomic, you really do explain everything so clearly. I am a little more confident with my timing planning now, O for me is 2 or 3 days away so i am really glad i got to read this today, and my DP will also be pleased that we get to go for gold every day from now :)

[atomic sagebrush]

Thanks atomic!! This is great - I'm needing to plan this part of my sway out now, since it's just a few weeks away from first attempt.

I am concerned about FR with my DH tho, LR seems to REALLY reduce his semen output, even after 2-3 day abstain, so I am a little worried about my original plan to FR 7 days then DTD on O-2, twice on O-1, once on O... he is only taking LR AF-O and he says he can definitely feel the difference - do you think we should change anything if his semen is really low? (He hasn't tried FR yet so I'm not sure how much more it will reduce his output).

I'm still on the fence about Rephresh, won't be doing antihistamines, so it's just diet and Vitex and LR/FR for me (I REALLY want to get pregnant first month, can you tell?! LOL)

I think you should give the FR a try and see how much he has. Semen amount and sperm count don't necessarily reflect each other - you can have quite a lot of sperm in not a lot of semen and vice versa.

My concern is that since you're not doing antihistamines and may not do RepHresh, I think you should at least give it a go with the FR the first month or two.

[atomic sagebrush]

Cinss, I'm so glad it helped! Please let me know if there was anything less than clear, it was a hard one to write.

[Ribbons]

I think you should give the FR a try and see how much he has. Semen amount and sperm count don't necessarily reflect each other - you can have quite a lot of sperm in not a lot of semen and vice versa.

My concern is that since you're not doing antihistamines and may not do RepHresh, I think you should at least give it a go with the FR the first month or two.

Ok... will do. I AM in a hurry.. but then again, I want to do it right... what do you think about the RepHresh? I'm a little nervous about it b/c I have read sways where they were certain that is what kept them from getting pg... when combining RepHresh and FR, what are the chances of pg first go??? (I know this is different for every couple, but maybe just using an example of an avg-fertile woman at my age - just now 35?)

Thanks!!

[jaspert]

Just looking for advice. Have been ttc pink for 3 cycles with bfn. Eased up on the diet last cycle because my cycle got so irregular and had barely any period, so not even sure I ovulated second cycle. We have been doing abstain with one BD, most recently with a 3 day cutoff. I do think maybe next month I will wait till positive OPK to do one time BD with abstain, but wondered if that's what anyone would recommend. I'm 35 and my husband is 43, so I'm wondering if one time with abstain is just not going to work for us. DH is not super into the pink sway, and not willing to FR by himself or with condoms...

[atomic sagebrush]

First of all, hi and welcome Jasper!!! Glad you found us!

I NEVER advise abstain for men over 35, let alone men over 43. http://genderdreaming.com/forum/trying-conceive-girl/8801-articles-studies-about-why-abstain-not-good-males-over-35-a.html

You are not going to get pg with abstain and 3 day cutoff, esp. using other sway tactics. It makes it very, very difficult even for young couples to conceive that way. I would strongly recommend trying 1 attempts at pos OPK with either a compressed FR, hurry up FR, (there's an explanation of how to do this in the thread below) or doing nothing and just BD when the mood strikes (and you may want to do that if you're wasting away on diet!). My husband and I (42 and 41) conceived our only girl BD after 4 boys, DTD every 4 days, which is actually boy frequency. It is TOTALLY possible to conceive girls with boy frequency.

Have you read the following essays? They will help to explain the how and why of frequency and give you options beyond abstain.

http://genderdreaming.com/forum/gender-swaying-discussion/5636-frequency-bd-pink-blue.html
http://genderdreaming.com/forum/gender-swaying-discussion/10156-jellybean-factory-%96-understanding-sperm-count-frequency.html

[jaspert]

Thanks atomic! So glad you responded. Honestly, I've been eating more off the diet recently as getting discouraged, which makes me want to eat :( However, I'm still not eating too much and am losing weight. So if I have been doing girl diet on and off since January and lost 20 pounds total. How big a deal is it to just start the diet today, day one of AF and not skip another cycle? May is supposed to be a good girl month, right :) I'd rather not skip a month ttc just to get back to six weeks strictly back on the diet. I do think we'll just have to do BD when the mood strikes, because my husband is not a big fan of release on his own, especially for swaying purposes. All those things leave me feeling like I won't have the strongest sway. I am still breastfeeding my 2 year old, so hopefully that along with our ages will help sway pink. Any other advice on the best things to do in the next two weeks before our next attempt? I also go back and forth about supplements since I've been on your site and am trying to decide what to do there...

Thanks again for the advice and the links!

[atomic sagebrush]

I wouldn't have you skip another cycle - after all, you may not get pg this month either (I hope not, but it happens.) If you wait around for all the stars to be in alignment, you end up never TTC, KWIM?? Blood sugar and pH drop almost right away and since you've already lost the 20lbs, you've done a lot to lower T and E levels already.

Baby is crying so I'll have to get back to you more tomorrow, but just wanted to know I would totally go for it.

[BabyDreams]

Hi,

Can anyone please help me? I'm trying to sway blue. Can you please tell me how to plan BD if I don't know my ovulation day? I have PCOS and my ovulation day is never the same (if any!). OPKs don't work for me and temp usually rises AFTER O so, how do I plan BD and how often? I'll really appreciate your help! :)

[True Blue]

Yay I found my answers :) thank you Atomic :)

[atomic sagebrush]

Yay I found my answers :) thank you Atomic :)

Ok! Sorry I wasn't able to answer more quickly! These children are kicking my butt LOL.

[NCBeachyGrl]

Hi AS! I have a question! This oopsie baby was conceived likely 4 days before O or 3 days if our pull out method failed. Of course, I decided to google 4 day cutoff for giggles and IG had a few posts that said that having a cutoff like this sways blue bc of fake O surges that happen.

I know we over here do not believe that timing sways, but I just wanted to see if there is any truth to this at all and see what you thought.

[atomic sagebrush]

Timing doesn't sway. The studies that claimed to show that, I have read and they are the "old skool" studies where people didn't even know how to pinpoint ovulation (not that we can nowadays either) and are totally unreliable.

What CAN sometimes happen is that the type of people who are able to get pg from really long cutoffs are probably more boy-friendly to begin with, because without a LOT of sperm and a LOT of good EWCM, it's impossible, the sperm would have all died off before the egg ever showed up. So ~if~ there is any real trend where long cutoffs ~seem~ to sway blue, it's an artifact of higher fertility swyaing blue and nothing to do with the day you BD on.

IG has no clue about stuff like that. Trust me, I just wrote a 100 page book about the subject and have read about everything out there to read at this point LOL. Most people, most months, don't have fake surges and it's pretty unusual really (does get more common with pink sways but still very far from the norm). that is just a bizarre thing to even say - how can some relatively rare event be swaying in any consistent way??

[NCBeachyGrl]

Ha ha!!! I love your answers AS! It is so hard not to think they know what they are talking about when everyone quotes things like it should be common knowledge!

[Transatlantic Belle]

Beautifully, honestly put. Your messages are so clear, concise, truthful, and elegantly put. What a way to deliver a (somewhat) brutal reality check.

[atomic sagebrush]

Hopefully not TOO brutal!! Welcome to the site BTW, let me know how I can help.

[atomic sagebrush]

PS - I will update this essay but wanted to be sure you knew that one attempt has subsequently shown itself to be vastly superior and I no longer really recommend more than one attempt (at least not at first.)

[SpicyTunaSushi]

Is the general consensus the same for blue- 3 attempts in the 5 day fertile window (O-3 through O+1)?

[atomic sagebrush]

Yes! That's what I'm having people aim for and if you fall a bit short and are only in with 2, that's still seeming to help!

[gglouisville]

Thanks atomic - I'm new to this and I have a question. I am getting older, almost 39 - husband 42. Timing is an issue due to this. I understand update on 1 attempt being the best for girl sway. We are dieting, taking supplements (but not to many), I am using rephresh, going to use sylk as lube, sudefed, I think that covers most, unless I have missed something else we should do. So do you recommend positive OPK and then attempt? What about DH releases? No release for a while before attempt or frequent release before attempt. Any suggestions would be great, husband and myself willing to do anything, but some of the things seem to be debunked by you nicely so we would like to sway, but no added stress unless it will help.

[atomic sagebrush]

If you are older I would have you leave out the jellies, Sudafed, antihistamine, and all frequency patterns. Have DH release every 2-4 days and then stick with the one attempt.

The jellies, antihistamine, and release patterns have not gotten it done. their results are equal to or lower than the overall success rates of the site and the "inverses" (which is the number of people who got girls without them) is also equal to that same %. THis indicates that they are doing nothing to sway and really cut odds of conception by a lot.

[Princess Mom]

I have a question with my dd I remember we DTD once and it was around 1-2 days before ovulation, she wasn't planned but I strickly remember this night. Also we didn't dtd for almost a week before. I been ttc for two months but not hardcore and using ton of rephresh which I now dropped. I am on cd 12 and will be ovulating on cd 14 I am very regular. And I can tell from my opks, my ph is at 4.5, will it be okay to try today? Or wait till tomorrow? I am not worried about rushing to get pregnant, just really want another DD.
Will I increase my odds of a boy if I would try again on ovulation day?

[atomic sagebrush]

One attempt is swaying strongly pink regardless of what day you DTD on. timing does not sway, it has been totally and completely debunked http://genderdreaming.com/forum/gender-swaying-general-discussion/7691-trouble-timing.html

[Princess Mom]

Thanks I will see if it works if not then better Chance next month, this is the way my dd was concieved, so I really do believe by it

[Dutchgirl]

I have a question about DTD.
I have my hubbie release himself every 2 days. I expect my O next weekend, sunday of monday. So when we go on with the releases every 2 days, he will have his last release on saterday.

Can we DTD then on sunday? Does he have to release once in the morning?
And when my positive OPK is on saturday? Then he released last time on thursday, so 2 days earlier. Isn't that too boy-friendly?

I'm sorry about this issue, but i'm kinda freaking out about this...I want to do just one attempt, but since i use Clomid i want to have a good shot at BFP and pink :)

[atomic sagebrush]

We have found the one attempt is SO much better than any frequency pattern that you should not worry about how often he releases 2-4 days because the frequency patterns simply are not working.

DO NOT have him release once in the morning! YOu are on Clomid, so you need to be in with a viable attempt and that will cut odds of conception too far

[Dutchgirl]

Thank you Atomic!

I'm calming down again now :)
Having the possibility to ask all my silly questions or worries is such a relieve!

[Juultje]

Hi Atomic, I've been keeping track of my cycles the last few months en my ovulation is on CD15 of CD16 (last month it was CD18). Is it a good strategy to BD on CD9, CD13 and then on CD17 (every 4 days)? Should DH release every day or every two days before and between BD-ing? He is too old to abstain. Thank you for answering my question!

[atomic sagebrush]

I can't answer that question because there is no way to predict when you'll ovulate this upcoming month. I think you should continue to BD every 4 days.

I would not have DH release in between, there is no need to.

[Prettylittlepink]

What a great essay!
It's nearly go time for us (TTC pink), I'm on CD12 and usually O between CD18-24...
I've done diet (vego, skip breakfast, limit snacking, lost a bit of weight but don't have much to lose) on aspirin, using aspartame and fiber, tried to do cardio but haven't done nearly enough
DH has taken licorice root just this cycle, will stop at O. He is also taking cranberry and calcium + magnesium
I can't decide what method to do for our attempt... So far no attempt this month (pulled out). Was just going to go for it as we liked closer to O, maybe with CFR or J&D but now thinking maybe we should just do 1 attempt? We would like to get pregnant in the next 3 months and have fallen pregnant quickly both times we have tried previously but that was without swaying...
I guess I'm wondering if only 1 attempt with sway we are doing would make it pretty hard to get pregnant, or if it's just as likely to get pregnant as with J&D or CFR? That came out sounding very confusing sorry! What would you suggest?
Thanks in advance :)

[atomic sagebrush]

Yes, just do one attempt. I would LOVE to go back in time and NEVER make up the frequency patterns. IF I could wave a magic wand and erase them from everyone's memory I would. THEY DON'T WORK. I invented them in 2011 out of my mind, it was an experiment that didn't pan out but what it did get us was a clear demonstration that it's actually the one attempt that works, not the frequency patterns. PLEASE everyone, DO NOT keep frequency but add attempts. This is coming from the horse's mouth - frequency does not seem to work.

It is totally possible, in fact EASY to conceive from one attempt, provided you are not doing a zillion other things to sway. Whatever you do or don't do, keep one attempt as long as is possible.

[atomic sagebrush]

Hi and welcome!!

Most people do want to start off with something in the way of frequency to lower sperm count BUT honestly, none of them have gotten anything near the results of diet longer than 12 weeks and one attempt. So if you are going to TTC before you have 12 weeks on diet, you may want to add in a frequency pattern but otherwise I'd do exactly what you're doing to up odds of conception with diet and one attempt working for you.. http://genderdreaming.com/forum/gender-swaying-general-discussion/5636-frequency-bd-pink-blue.html?5636-frequency-of-BD-for-pink-and-blue=

[atomic sagebrush]

Thank you so much for your reply!

Regarding the diet, I have lost 12 lbs in the last 5 weeks. It's a huge change for me in terms of meal size and no snacking. I dont think I'll lose much more (my BMI is 19.2). I can hold off and TTC when I have been on the diet for at least 12 weeks but my rationale was that I am probably experiencing the biggest change right now (and therefore biggest decline in maternal condition) and a couple of months down the track my weight loss will have plateaued and my body may have become acclimatized to the diet?

WE originally entertained that as a possibility but over time it has become quite apparent that the time on diet is more important than a sudden shock to the body or weight loss, and that if we do get acclimatized to diet, it is over the course of many years (and honestly, the number of BLUE swayers who really eat LE style and have their whole lives casts a lot of doubt on that idea) http://genderdreaming.com/forum/trying-to-conceive-a-girl/1877-how-we-made-girls-girl-moms-pink-dust.html

[atomic sagebrush]

Another thing I thought of (and sorry to bombard you with questions)...hubby normally has an extremely high libido, which I guess I associate with testosterone levels. Right now, however, due to several things his libido is very low. Would it be best to factor this in and TTC earlier, in case his testosterone rises again in the coming months? Or are his testosterone levels secondary in importance to me being on the diet longer?

No problem, I love questions - please consider a sway plan as this is my job and while I help everyone for free, the sway plans enable me to do that instead of having to work outside the home. :) I also have the diet and OPK books at a lower price.

This is one of those crystal ball questions that I really just don't have enough info to say for sure. We don't actually know what his T levels are, whether they'll go up in the future, and to be honest we really don't even KNOW that testosterone is really what is swaying anyway (we have had some guys taking steroids whose T levels were stratospheric but getting tons of girls, so it seems as if it isn't T levels in and of themselves but something else that is swaying)

The diet information that we have in our stats, feels way more reliable to me than any speculation about your husband's T levels and so if at all possible, I'd stick with the 12 weeks on diet and not worry about T levels or lack thereof. :)

[kk1304]

I'm a little confused (of course me!)

I was planning on DTD every 2-4 days from Cycle day 1, then 3 attempts around O (the night of positive OPK, the next morning and next night), which I was recommended on another post that Atomic said she's seeing great results with.

But then I read this and it says BD every 2-4 days from Day 1, then several attempts (or attempt) every day from 0-3, 0-2, 0-1, 0, 0+1

Which results are better?

[atomic sagebrush]

For a boy, right??? Just making sure so everyone knows.

WE do not have the data to say for sure what is best and it may be different depending on the couple. Let me discuss why:

A lot of people want to stick with Shettles timing. THus they will refuse to DTD on some of those days because it's not in line with Shettles. I came up with the 3 attempts at positive OPK as a way to have more than one attempt but still be in line with Shettles.

Personally, I believe that the more attempts in the fertile window, the better for blue. We do not yet have the data to prove that first of all, and secondly, since I wrote this essay I have been finding that many of the blue swayers' husbands are having trouble DTD this often - so if they start off having lots of attempts early in the fertile window, by the time odds of conception really go way up, they are out of steam and can't DTD any more. I have since decided that it makes the most sense to be sure they are able to complete the transaction when the odds of conception are the best and that is at or around positive OPK. Just before, during, and just after. So if you want to add attempts, and your husband CAN, that's great, I believe it will only help (but do not yet have data to prove that) but if you aren't sure if he can, best to stick with the 3 attempts at pos OPK method.

[kk1304]

Ok, so basically both are good for BOY sway, but I'll have Plan A and Plan B, depending on my husband's ability. I got it. I was just a little confused on which one. If I HAVE to MAKE him do it, he will, lol. I want the best possibility.

I was just scared of that 0-3, 0-2...one of my dd was conceived on one 0-3 then 0-2 attempt after a few days of not DTD...but then again if I keep attempting it would provide more sperm and possibility.

I'm learning new things all the time and the reasoning. Thanks!

[atomic sagebrush]

with your DD's though, that was one attempt in the fertile window - so would sway pink in that regard. So many times we think it was the day we had sex, but really it was the frequency and number of attempts!!

[squigglepink]

Im responding to this post Atomic, where you said the following:
Yes, just do one attempt. I would LOVE to go back in time and NEVER make up the frequency patterns. IF I could wave a magic wand and erase them from everyone's memory I would. THEY DON'T WORK. I invented them in 2011 out of my mind, it was an experiment that didn't pan out but what it did get us was a clear demonstration that it's actually the one attempt that works, not the frequency patterns. PLEASE everyone, DO NOT keep frequency but add attempts. This is coming from the horse's mouth - frequency does not seem to work.

It is totally possible, in fact EASY to conceive from one attempt, provided you are not doing a zillion other things to sway. Whatever you do or don't do, keep one attempt as long as is possible.

ATOMIC - is this regarding frequent release as this is the option we are considering??

[atomic sagebrush]

Frequency patterns for PINK are abstain, frequent (daily) release, compressed frequent release, and hurry up FR.

Many people want to start off using frequency patterns and that is fine, provided that it is one of the things you drop FIRST before adding attempts.

Early on in the site, we tried keeping frequency, pH, etc while adding attempts. This was a disaster and the lowest results in the history of the site. Ever since we started dropping the other stuff while keeping one attempt, our results have gone up and up.

[atomic sagebrush]

^^^ but we didn't have a clue that number of attempts even SWAYED at that point, so we were just doing what made sense. It was only because of this accidental experiment that we learned that number of attempts does seem to sway. Up until then we thought as others did, that it was the other stuff.

[squigglepink]

Thanks, is that for tt girl? Sorry i gatecrashed this thread and noticed they ttc boy. Hope i have not confused myself!

[atomic sagebrush]

Thanks, is that for tt girl? Sorry i gatecrashed this thread and noticed they ttc boy. Hope i have not confused myself!

The original post covered both boys and girls so questions in this thread are from both pink and blue swayers. I saw in your signature you were swaying pink and thus answered accordingly. :)

[Bane Harper]

The chemistry in the post is amazing...some good information

[snowy_ice]

Hi all... new here. Been reading much of the links here for almost 1 week, and it's like info overload! (In a good way)

Just want to clarify, I only started the semi LE diet (a small packet of milk @ 150ml only for breakfast ) since early June, and tried full swing LE diet in the last 4-5 days & stopped cal/mag supps..

CD10 now.. don't know when is my O, didn't use OPK either..

Ttc pink

So should get DH (age 35) to abstain 7-10days and attempt once around CD 15/16? So after BD, should I just wait and see or still BD every 4 days?

I'm 31. DTD once a month or less... wasn't TTC before this....

Thank you in advance!

[atomic sagebrush]

Abstain hasn't really helped much but it's ok if you want to try it. 35 is my cutoff for abstain, once he gets older than 35 I would switch to FR instead. The important thing is the one attempt so if you think you normally O around CD 15/16 or so, then have one attempt at that point in time. I DO like you guys (esp. when not using OPK and you don't know when you will or have been Oing) to do every 4 or 5 days after that one attempt just in case your ovulation was delayed.

[snowy_ice]

Another confusion for tons of reading, so after abstinence and 1 attempt, you also recommended to DTD every 4/5 days. In between, does DH has to do FR? Or abstinence?
Btw, DH not swaying in terms of diet but manage to convince him on less red meat. Is pork considered red?

[atomic sagebrush]

There are lots of different recommendations because different things are right for different people.

If you guys are doing the every 4 day method to boost conception then have DH abstain between them. This is because he needs enough time to make a decent sized batch or you aren't boosting conception anyway!

If you're just doing it after your one attempt to cover in case of delayed O OR are doing it because you can't ever get positive OPK and you have irregular cycle, then you can have him release between the e4d attempts. This will cut odds of conception (like - a LOT) but may sway more pink.

RE pork, annoyingly this is something we are not sure about. Pork is high in protein/fat and has a lot of nutrients in it so I tend to lump it in as red meat BUT some animal studies have indicated that the Omega 6 type fats, of which pork has a lot, may sway pink. Plus a lot of pork things like bacon and hot dogs are barely meat at all LOL and I consider those to be pretty good for pink swayers (even ladies) since there is not a lot of nutrition going on.

[Mommy2apples]

Oh atomic! So glad you said this! lol I caved and ate a grilled hotdog yesterday! lol something I was craving! lol I eat bacon on my salads every now and then too..


https://www.fertilityfriend.com/home/50268a

[snowy_ice]

Thank you Atomic! How would you count every 4 days? Eg: One attempt on CD 12, next DTD would be CD 16 ?

Ideally that 1 attempt should be pos O+12, right? Juz ordered my opk, hope it gets here soon!

By releasing in between e4d, it should be at least once daily?

and yeah to bacon!!! Been trying to avoid meat at meal times and DH frowns... *sigh*

[atomic sagebrush]

You can do it either that way (which is lower odds of conception but may be pinker) or CD 12 and 15 (so the next attempt is on the 4th day - this is better odds of conception but may be more blue friendly). So whichever you prefer. MOst people do the latter because they have only switched to e4d after several months of trying and are ready to boost odds of conception. But the former is also ok to try if that works for you.

Do you mean positive OPK?? We find that is a good point in time to get pregnant with one attempt and it's easy to do but there is no benefit to the sway from that day in particular, just something we do for convenience

Yes if DH is releasing between it needs to be one time daily. I'd not do more than that as it may end up cutting conception and making it very hard for him to perform.

[Lulila]

Hi everyone!

I'm currently pg with my second DS. I can't even consider it a failed sway because we didn't have time to plan it. The thing is DS1 was conceived by IUI, because my DH had low motility and his numbers, although they were on normal limits, were a bit low. Before the IUI he took supplements and that seemed to work, so when deciding to go for #2, he started taking supps 3 months prior to it (maca, vitamins & minerals to boost his swimmers). So, unexpectedly, we fall pregnant at "first try", having BD 0-1, 0-3 and 0-4. I'm surprised it's a boy because i am/was breastfeeding and my hubby was cycling A LOT because he had a mtb race the month after, and thought that swayed pink. Defo think my diet sways blue, no meat but lots of carbs and specially at breakfast. :rolleyes:

Well, the idea is to try to sway for a girl in 2 years time (I know it's way too early to think about it - but i'm sure i won't have time enough to study about it by then lol). DH will be 33 and i'll be 30.

Given our story, what would be our best try? abstain and one attempt? or FR + one attempt?
Should he skip the sperm boost supplements? Maybe his motility problem was caused by having the flu twice that year, or an infection, we don't know! But sure that boosts his testosterone levels because he normally has a low libido and when he's on supps he's more into it.

If i get a plan, do you get updates? Don't know if getting one now and start studying it or wait until we really need it in case there are any changes.

Thanks in advance!

[atomic sagebrush]

People actually do get plans very far in advance and then just renew when they're ready to start swaying.

I would not have your husband do abstain since he's a biker. I'd skip the sperm health supps but I would have him do regular release (not FR!) every 2-4 days either on his own or with you, with a condom. This will be a good compromise between having enough healthy swimmers to get the job done but hopefully not swaying blue.

[Lulila]

People actually do get plans very far in advance and then just renew when they're ready to start swaying.

I would not have your husband do abstain since he's a biker. I'd skip the sperm health supps but I would have him do regular release (not FR!) every 2-4 days either on his own or with you, with a condom. This will be a good compromise between having enough healthy swimmers to get the job done but hopefully not swaying blue.

Why wouldn't he abstain? Does it really damage the sperm? Won't regular release increase his testosterone? He trains 3 times a week for a couple of hours, but he's gradually increasing his trainings so we'll see what he's doing in a couple years time... :rolleyes:
I think I'm defo getting a plan, I'm trying to catch up with all but it's hard to summarize all the info available and I can't stop reading about it!
Thanks for the advice.:happy:

[atomic sagebrush]

yes, it really damages the sperm, and additionally, while biking has been shown in studies to sway pink, abstain hasn't even worked for us (getting lower odds than the overall success rate of the site!!) so it's like you're potentially harming sperm for something that doesn't even work anyway, plus lowering odds of conception for one of the very few male sway tactics that has been shown in studies to sway!

I have your questionnaire and will get it back to you ASAP!

[Lulila]

That's great. Thank you!

[Mommykisses]

Please help ! I was Really Planning on one attempt for
My girl sway . We have been doing just one attempt the last few
Months however last night after some drinks my husband got excited and released in me . It was the second time having sex with in the hour . I am expecting my positive opk any day now . I did J&d right away but now I'm worried I ruined my sway if I attempt again at positive opk . And if I don't do another attempt I probably won't get pregnant considering I did such a quick j&d ? What would you do in this situation ? I also had big O 😩

[Mommy2apples]

Honestly, I know which gender I want, but I want to be pregnant more so my advice would be to bd at positive opk. Atomic will have better advice on this though for sure :)


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[Lulila]

Hello! I'm quite new at all this swaying thing... but maybe you can switch to compressed FR? I think that was meant for "accidents" like that. Wait and see if any expert can help more! Maybe you'll get a +opk soon and won't have to worry about it! ;)

Enviado desde mi SM-G925F mediante Tapatalk

[Mommy2apples]

If you go three days from now and then have your positive opk I'd go for an attempt definitely. Like Monday


2003 [emoji1349]2009 [emoji1407] 2012 [emoji1406] 2015 [emoji1406] 2015 [emoji1356] 2016 [emoji1413] 2018[emoji120] for a [emoji1405][emoji166]to fit into the mix of our crazy bunch and complete our beautiful family! [emoji7]

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[atomic sagebrush]

Don't do compressed FR, it cuts odds of conception to nothing and was really super stressful. There is also probably not enough time.

If the positive OPK comes in the next 2 days, stick with the one you've had. If it's 3-4 days, have another attempt. If you're in the middle and can't make up your mind, flip a coin and do what the coin says.

[Mommykisses]

Even if I did an immediate j&d on and the BD was on the second time
Having sex with in the hour ? I'm worried both ways , The last times I did immediate j&d ( thinking that's what I was suppose to do ) I never got pregnant. I was hoping to get 1 attempt with lying down for 10 to 15 min . Before I did the dump . I don't really see myself getting pregnant over last nights attempt however I'm not sure how it affects the overall if I were to do another attempt ( they way I planned ) if my positive opk comes tomorrow or the next day .

[Mommykisses]

Or could I use rephresh now ? And hopefully
Kill off the sperm from last night?

[atomic sagebrush]

Not I nor anyone can tell you what the right thing to do is. We can talk about every possibility under the sun but at the end of it all, YOU yourself need to decide based on what you personally want - better chance of pink or better chance of conception. That's all it boils down to in the end. We can't know from here if the attempts you've had was enough, we can't know if adding in another attempt would sway blue - we just don't know and while I know it's totally obnoxious the choice has to be left up to you. :)

[atomic sagebrush]

Or could I use rephresh now ? And hopefully
Kill off the sperm from last night?

Now that one, I DO know. RepHresh a day after an attempt will not kill any sperm as they've all gone up inside your cervical crypts and/or uterus (depending on where you are in your cycle) and are largely out of reach from RepHresh.

[Mommykisses]

So the other day I made a post thinking I was getting my period again . Well turns out I got a BFP . I'm still a little unsure as I haven't confirmed with a doctor . I did have a uti so I'm not sure if this is giving me a
False possitive . I took one test in the morning yesterday and got a faint line on the 6 day sooner first response test . Later that afternoon I tried in a no named brand test and got a bfn . . Then tested again at night with the same no name brand and got another bfn . Then this morning I did the digital and got a BFP ( the test that says yes or no . It said yes 😊 So provided that it's not a bladder infection inference I am a little nervous about my attempts . Obviously what's done is done but just wondering if anyone had attempts two days in a row and fell asleep without j&d right after and still conceived a girl ? The first attempt was Friday night ( it wasn't the best as my hubby went to change my position and just got it in at the last second ) ,
So I decided to sleep with it in as I thought this would be our only attemp .The second attempt was after a night of partying and we woke up in the middle of the night had sex and I fell asleep right after . The following morning on Sunday I got a possitive opk . I was on the diet 18 weeks at this point . Note that I did 60 min walking 5-6 days a week. It after the Friday attempt I was so busy that I only got one walk in a week later . What are your thoughts ? Do you think I still have a good chance of getting our little girl ?

[atomic sagebrush]

UTI so, so rarely gives you a false positive that I'll go ahead and say congratulations now.

People have gotten girls with every possible combination of things under the sun. I personally got a girl with one attempt and falling asleep right after and I think that Friday attempt was probably so far out from O and as you say not a good attempt anyway, that I'd not worry about it. 18 weeks on diet is still good chances no matter how many attempts you had.

[Mommykisses]

So just thought I'd update . I went to the doctors .... he said I have a bladder infection but I am NOT pregnant ��. I'm so confused and frustrated . I guess I'll stop swaying to be safe

[atomic sagebrush]

Gosh I can count on one hand the number of times that has happened!! I'm so sorry I hope I didn't get your hopes up!

If doc says you aren't pregnant, you aren't. Did he/she do a blood test, I'm assuming??

[Mommykisses]

No blood test was offered . You didn't get my hopes up but the home tests certainly did . I have taken a couple more , the early detectors
Come up possitive and the no name is negative .

[atomic sagebrush]

Well then how does the doctor even know??? What was their criteria??

[Mommykisses]

Just thought I would update again . Sorry it took so long . I only took a urine test at that doctors office . I ended up going for a second opinion and getting a blood test and I am pregnant . I am 7 weeks now . My mind is spinning on what gender it is . I keep asking for signs from god but I keep getting mixed answers however today I feel it's a boy . I've had a couple dreams saying it's a boy and 1 dream of my midwife telling me girl . Still no dreams of actually holding a baby of either gender . Is there a post for gender dreams and accuracy on here ?

[Lulila]

Congrats on your pregnancy! I don't trust gender dreams because i dreamt i was carrying a girl this time and it's a boy. Don't put your hopes down!

Enviado desde mi SM-G925F mediante Tapatalk

[Throwaway_panther]

I dreamt I was carrying an Asian baby when I was pregnant with DD. We are both white.


Don't trust dreams ;)

[atomic sagebrush]

Just thought I would update again . Sorry it took so long . I only took a urine test at that doctors office . I ended up going for a second opinion and getting a blood test and I am pregnant . I am 7 weeks now . My mind is spinning on what gender it is . I keep asking for signs from god but I keep getting mixed answers however today I feel it's a boy . I've had a couple dreams saying it's a boy and 1 dream of my midwife telling me girl . Still no dreams of actually holding a baby of either gender . Is there a post for gender dreams and accuracy on here ?

I have sadly not found signs from God to be very helpful (not that they don't work necessarily but I think Satan likes to send some fakers along just to keep us guessing. :))

Dreams DO NOT predict gender. I promise. The only time I have ever dreamed of having a baby girl I was pregnant with a boy. I had literally dozens of dreams where I had a boy when I was pregnant with a girl. :)

[Mommy2apples]

My first son actually flat out told me in my dream he was a boy. My daughter I had both dreams. My two little boys I didn't have gender dreams. With my sister I dreamt her baby was a boy and he indeed is. Same with her I dreamt she was a girl. Just you can't always trust dreams. Sometimes they work and sometimes they don't.


2003 [emoji1349]2009 [emoji1407] 2012 [emoji1406] 2015 [emoji1406] 2015 [emoji1356] 2016 [emoji1413] 2018[emoji120] for a [emoji1405][emoji166]to fit into the mix of our crazy bunch and complete our beautiful family! [emoji7]


https://www.fertilityfriend.com/home/50268a

[atomic sagebrush]

Updated with info about e4d, e4d plus one, reg release and one attempt, and SMEP

[Pinktink]

Atomic, quick question. The cycle I got pregnant DH and I only DTD 4 days before O and right on O. Which BD would have most likely hit the target? This was the right move for swaying pink?
Thankyou!

[atomic sagebrush]

It could have been either one. I can't say.

Yes every 4 days has been good for pink.

Good luck and pink dust!

[Girlswaylondon]

Thank you for the update atomic! I’m book marking this holy grail :D

[sa76]

Hello, can I crash in for a question. With my first ds we did the typical boy bd - every other day. With ds 2 we sure had two attempts - one at cd12 and one at cd14. Did do nothing for swaying - even did not know about it. The last time I got pregnant we bd at cd7, cd9, cd12, cd13 and cd14 - must have ovulated around cd14 (I'm taking temperature). And the twins would have been girls. By the way I changed my diet. With ds1 and ds2 I eat much more, did lot of snacking. This time I ate just 3 meals a day, no snacking and not much meat. So when one attempt is gold how did this happend that I had girls with 3 or 4 attempts in the fertile window, and got a boy with only two attempts. We want to start ttc in january and now I'm afraid of doing this one attempt and end with a boy because had more attempts and had girl. Am I paranoid :nails:

[atomic sagebrush]

Yes you're paranoid LOL.

Even with 3 attempts, we still got girls 40-45% of the time even with otherwise pink sways. 2 attempts has been 60-65% pink with otherwise pink sways, but still 35-40% boys. These things are not magic bullets. But it only makes sense to do what has worked for most people, most of the time and that is one attempt.

Plus, you really had 2 attempts. CD 7 and 9 don't count. And with an O Day attempt, that really doesn't count in the way that earlier attempts do because the attempts from CD 12 and 13 would have already fertilized the egg before the CD 14 attempt was probably even deposited, let alone capacitated.

There are many things in swaying I am not sure about but I will tell you that the one attempt has absolutely proven itself to me. We were having bad results before we went to one attempt, great results ever since. I cannot recommend people starting off doing anything but one attempt.

[sa76]

Yes I really am, I know!! �� Thank you for this fast response! Ok then - I do what brings the best results!✌��

[sa76]

It‘s me again! Bd yesterday on CD 14, today CD 15 got a very dark positive opk. So is it fine to stay with the attempt from yesterday? If the opk is positive today it may be that I will ovulate maybe in 12 to 48 hours. That means worst case ovulation for example sunday morning (just pretending). Will the attempt from yesterday be enough or would it be to early to catch the egg? Aaaahhhhh!

[atomic sagebrush]

The rule of thumb is this:

For best odds of conception, have another attempt.
For best odds of pink, stick with the attempt you've had.

You have to decide which is more important to you this cycle. And if you really can't decide, flip a coin and do what the coin says!

[sa76]

Thanks. Temperature is somehow down again, yesterday morning was 36,48, this morning 36,36.... Idk.. I usualy have a little higher temp. after positive opk. Tonight I‘m on a party, kids away, decide spontaneous.

[atomic sagebrush]

And remember if you really can't make up your mind just flip a coin!

[aira22]

:bluesperm:

Every Other Day Method (EOD) - While many of our blue sway hubbies have a lower sex drive, an important minority of couples with all girls are actually having daily intercourse. The hubby has a sky high sex drive and they generally have sex at least once a day if not more. This may lower sperm numbers and inadvertently sway pink despite having several attempts in the fertile window. Yet the husbands really, really REALLY do not want to have sex only every 2-4 days! And remember the cardinal rule of swaying - if Daddy ain't happy, ain't nobody happy!

So, for those couples I suggest having sex every other day during the times of the month you are not fertile and then still hitting it with the 3-5 attempts in the fertile window, especially the microwindow of O-2 thru O Day. It's not going to make quite as many sperm as releasing every 2-4 days will, but it will give him a day to recover in between batches and in a man with a high sex drive anyway, that is probably all these guys need!



So, every3days is better than EOD, right? But is every 4 days even better than that? Or is it different for every man and can't be generalized (probably ;) ). So what do you recommend if You could choose? DH is willing to wait 3 or even 4 days if it is better (with hope that swaying will be over soon lol)

[atomic sagebrush]

We don't know for sure and yes, it will be individualized for each man. MANY of the things that we ponder for blue sways, a significant % of our blue sway daddies can't stick to them and so above all else, please put what your husband can actually DO first and foremost. Don't set him up to fail by asking him to BD more than he's capable of.

We don't know if every 3 days is better than every 4. just don't have the data to say and probably varies by couple and over time anyway (just because something may work for a couple one month, may be totally different in a year or two or 5 between kids!)

All I want you guys to do is avoid many days of back to back release and many days (5 or more) without having hubby clean the pipes. Beyond that please put your needs and preferences first.

[onebigwish]

I wonder if i can get pg with one attempt at all...last month did three attempts in a row and nothing ��

[Throwaway_panther]

To jump in, my REs seemed certain the exact perfect amount of abstinence did vary between men. He advised more like 1-2 days for semen samples for IVF for example instead of the 3-4 that is typically considered ideal. And, we did a 3 day abstinence for his first semen anaysis and our first IVF cycle with both results being pretty rough. With our second IVF cycle, he only abstained the 2 days and also released twice in a row (I know, he's a monster lol). MUCH better results (still didn't do great, but his concentration had improved so much that the embryologist was ecstatic.

Knowing we were doing a Hail Mary with our natural attempt after we lost our FET, we did EOD with an occasional two day release and one of our attempts (literally morning of O) was two releases within an hour. Well after 7 natural losses, we're sitting pregnant at almost 13 weeks with a hopefully healthy baby. Can't speak to gender yet (though I REALLY hope and pray boy), but I feel pretty conclusively my DH does better with more frequent release (and I even wonder if that's why his whole life he's "needed" to release every day -- maybe his body was telling him something! And made me regret those times I'd keep him from doing anything for 4 days before O on previous attempts to keep in line with Shettles!)

[atomic sagebrush]

I wonder if i can get pg with one attempt at all...last month did three attempts in a row and nothing ��

Some months just aren't the month. It may be that something was wrong with the egg or the sperm that fertilized it or that something went wrong very early on. It may be that your attempts fell at the wrong time or your EWCM wasn't great that month or that it was, but DH just had a smaller than normal batch. There are literally a kajillion variables that come into play. But men make enough sperm in a single batch (even with subpar fertility) to impregnate every woman on this site LOL. I'm not saying that you should keep going with one attempt if you want to add them, but I would NOT have you do three, which has swayed strongly blue. And if you do want to do three (totally your call to make) then just go to SMEP, which at least really does boost odds of conception. All too often you guys will add attempts in ways that don't even boost chances of conceiving! And that to me makes no sense - to risk swaying blue without even improving the chances of conception.

If you're ready to pull out all stops, go to SMEP. If you're not ready, then do one attempt OR e4d OR e4d plus one. No other BD pattern because they either sway blue or cut odds of conception or BOTH!

[onebigwish]

No I’m not ready to give up My sway yet at all. I’m just so impatient and the tww is so hard. This was the only cycle we did 3 attempts to look if it brings something. Today i spoke with my gyne and it’s most likely that my tubes are blocked.

Ps: dh isn’t a frequent bd er. Two times a week is maximum for him so I’ll think i stick with e4days plus one.

[atomic sagebrush]

Oh really, what made them say that about your tubes?? Did u have a scan done?

[onebigwish]

Oh really, what made them say that about your tubes?? Did u have a scan done?

She did an ultrasound on my tubes and she suspects that they’re blocked but the only way to find out is with an hsg. I didn’t had an HSG yet because my gyn changed her mind first she want to see the sperm test results from DH. :(

[atomic sagebrush]

There will be time enough to worry when you actually know. Of all the people on here who have been told they probaby have blocked tubes (this is like 200 people whose docs have told them this!!) only one of them actually did. The rest of them had the HSG done and everything was fine. So please don't get upset over this yet because it may not even be true.

[Greenbean]

Hii, could you please help with my timing. I'm using opk sticks but am not sure of my ovulation date. I believe I'm yet to ovulate this cycle, TTC a girl. I thought I had a positive or nearly positive on Sunday so DTD at 23:00. I then worried we wouldn't get a chance to DTD at O so DTD again on Wednesday around 23:00 again. I believe I should ovulate in the next few days. We definitely won't get a chance to DTD Saturday or Sunday. I'm worried about missing out on conceiving but I don't want to put in another attempt! Should we DTD at first positive opk or just leave it now? I hope this makes some sense.

[atomic sagebrush]

Yes I'd have another attempt at positive OPK. Your odds of conceiving will be very very low sticking with that one attempt.

That having been said since u won't be able to BD on Sat or Sun I'd have an attempt tonight to cover you for those two days. Going from Wed. to Mon is going to be next to impossible chances if you O Monday or later.

[Liliana]

Hi Girls, I am just read¡ng this thread and wanted to know how exactly is one attempt for pink sway? this is the best for pink sway right? is only one bd in all the fértile time 2-3 days before O? but on the other side, wouldn´t that be too much quantity of sperm which would sway blue? sorry I read too much and get a Little confused. Starting my diet in 1 week , I have the membership payed, Atomic can you lead me where I can find everything about the pink sway diet? thx

[atomic sagebrush]

We don't know how it works. All we know is that it does, based on some statistics we collected from 2011 through 2015. It is not as obvious now because so many people are doing only one attempt without doing diet or exercise, it makes it look less effective, but the original data really proved very clearly that one attempt was swaying.

You don't have to do timing (2-3 days before O) but you can if you want. Most of us have been doing the one attempt at first positive OPK because it's a good time for conception and easy to figure out (unlike 2-3 days before O, where you are guessing if you will ovulate on time or not)

I am unclear how you could have any less than one attempt's worth of sperm to conceive with!! Can you please clarify??

We have tons and tons of LE Diet info for our Dream Members here: https://www.genderdreaming.com/forum/ttc-girl-resources/

[Liliana]

I mean if is only one attempt in 2 weeks, with only 1 bd in 2 weeks is a lot more quantity of sperm than if you bd 2 -3 times in 2 weeks.. and i wondered if is ok to have only 1 attemp in esch fertile cycle as a lot of sperm may sway blue..

[1blueplease]

Hi we tried that, we attempted on the day of ovlution , measures with the kit. Had the possible positions suggested to have deep penetration. Hobby had coffee as well. But nothing worked.we have beautiful girl.
Now we are thinking of going if for a son. We have two girls.
Just sharing my experience..:)

Sent from my BLN-L22 using Tapatalk

[Throwaway_panther]

@Liliana: That's now how sperm works -- atomic has a good essay on this on the site, I think called "the jelly bean factory." Letting sperm go unreleased for weeks at a time is a great way to actually deplete sperm and sperm quality (and I say great as in -- this can be bad, even for pink sways, as it can lead to no conception at all and even miscarriage, so atomic never recommends abstaining for more than a week).

@1blueplease: Thanks for sharing your experience! It's a great support of the GD way -- one attempt is very pink friendly, even at O, and the coffee stuff is what old sways were like on other sites.

[atomic sagebrush]

Hi we tried that, we attempted on the day of ovlution , measures with the kit. Had the possible positions suggested to have deep penetration. Hobby had coffee as well. But nothing worked.we have beautiful girl.
Now we are thinking of going if for a son. We have two girls.
Just sharing my experience..:)

Sent from my BLN-L22 using Tapatalk

Having one attempt (even on ovulation) has been very pink friendly for us. That is why we recommend blue swayers have more than one attempt O-1 through O Day (or even earlier than that if you do not believe in timing.)

We have not found positions or hubby drinking caffeine before intercourse to be effective either.

We do have lots of things that can help, it is just that some of the "old school" methods really don't work very well if at all. :)

[atomic sagebrush]

I mean if is only one attempt in 2 weeks, with only 1 bd in 2 weeks is a lot more quantity of sperm than if you bd 2 -3 times in 2 weeks.. and i wondered if is ok to have only 1 attemp in esch fertile cycle as a lot of sperm may sway blue..

It isn't, though. Because your husband's body does not keep making more and more and more sperm (he would explode, LOL) and additionally much of the sperm he saves will die from old age before it's released.

I think you are misunderstanding the one attempt. Your husband can, and in fact should, have some releases during the month anyway. Not because he will have too much sperm and sway blue, but because it may be harmful to his sperm quality to save up sperm for that long. The point is to have one UNPROTECTED attempt (instead of several unprotected attempts) during your fertile window. No one should have your husband go a month without ejaculating. Not only because it may be harmful but also because it's just generally mean! :)

here are a couple more essays that will help: https://www.genderdreaming.com/forum/gender-swaying-general-discussion/60956-jellybean-factory-understanding-frequency-patterns-sperm-count.html

https://www.genderdreaming.com/forum/trying-to-conceive-a-girl/8801-articles-studies-about-why-abstain-not-good-males-over-35-a.html

[Liliana]

Haha I ment only 1 attempt in the fertility days, more atempts when i am not fertile! If i let him an entire month with only 1 attempt in total I may get a divorce instead of a baby 😂😂😂

[atomic sagebrush]

:agree: Gotcha! I hear some stories on here that my husband would definitely divorce me over so I never know! :)

[sway_blue]

UPDATE 12-9-17 - in the last essay in this series of essays (just scroll down!) is the how to on regular release + one attempt, every 4 days, every 4 days + one attempt, and SMEP!!! We've had tons of questions on those so hopefully this will help! These essays are really difficult to write, please let me know in the comments if anything is less than clear or what questions you have!!

One of the most common questions on the site is about how many attempts to do, why, and how. Let’s take a closer look and see if we can remove some of the stress and confusion from this topic.

Since I originally wrote this essay we have learned that for reasons we can only guess at, number of attempts actually DOES seem to sway!! One attempt seems to sway strongly pink, 3 attempts in the fertile window seems to sway strongly blue.

:think:How many attempts should I do?
It depends! (you knew I was going to say that, didn’t you??) More attempts in the fertile window means greater odds of pregnancy, higher sperm numbers may mean more sons conceived, higher pH in the vagina (semen will help raise vaginal pH) may also favor male conceptions, but at the same time, a lot of ineffective releases prior to the fertile window opening (O-3 through O Day, see more below) may lower sperm numbers overall and lead to more daughters conceived. It is a balancing act for each couple to find the right amount of BD to conceive while still swaying.

:think:Why would number of attempts sway?
We don’t know, quite honestly (you probably knew I was going to say that, too!). It may be that there is some primitive communication between sperm that sways in some fashion (perhaps Y sperm are better able to band together to gain some advantage in penetrating the egg and/or CM while X are better at going it alone or with only a few more sperm to assist), more sperm may signal Y sperm to capacitate more quickly than X or vice versa, more or a higher number of dead sperm, may cause changes in CM consistency that allow Y sperm to make it thru more easily than X (or vice versa), or it may be that the very tiny difference in size between X and Y sperm enables the slightly larger X sperm to penetrate the egg with less assistance while the smaller Y sperm may need more assistance.

You see, it takes the work of more than one sperm cell to penetrate an egg shell – if the egg shell is sufficiently weakened, a slightly smaller-headed sperm (Y) may have a momentary advantage over a larger-headed X sperm due to surface tension (for the same reason a sharpened pencil can be poked thru a piece of paper more easily than an unsharpened pencil.) Fewer sperm at the egg may confer a momentary benefit to a larger-headed X sperm because due to their larger size, they may be better able to push their way into the eggshell prior to it being totally weakened (the sharpened tip of a pencil is much weaker than the blunt tip of an unsharpened one). Or, it may be some combination of all of these things. Or something totally different all together.

But these are “proximate mechanisms” that explain how something might work. They don’t really answer the underlying question - the ultimate mechanism - the question of WHY would the number of sperm on hand sway to begin with?

I have wracked my brain to come up with an ultimate mechanism as to why sperm numbers could confer any evolutionary benefit to one gender over another, and I think I have a couple of decent possibilities. Please understand that this is sheer speculation on my part based on a half-dozen studies and some evolutionary biology books I have read, is discussing general trends and possibilities with plenty of exceptions, and is not meant to be in any way offensive to anyone. I debated on leaving this section out all together because I do not want to offend anyone, but I think one of the reasons why people like this site is because we do try to figure out the deeper reasons behind gender swaying rather than just going off blind faith that these tactics actually work for SOME reason. It also demonstrates how both very frequent and very infrequent intercourse might sway for both DH and DW, which I know is a sticking point for some people.

1)Dads Vs. Cads theory: When a guy is having a LOT of sex or NO sex, it sends the same signal to his body – he may not be in regular possession of a woman. This is often true in primates and also in many other mammals and some human cultures as well. Either he’s servicing a lot of women/one woman several times in a row over the span of a few days/weeks, possibly in the short term in a “hit and run” fashion, and may not be around in the future to provide protection and food to the family. Or, he got a one-time opportunity at a woman that he does not normally have access too, and again, may not be around in the future to provide protection and food to the family.

Female offspring tend to have better rates of survival than male offspring do (in nature, in primates) even when there is not a biological father around. This is firstly because they need fewer calories and less protein to survive/reproduce and their dietary needs can be better met thru gathering, which is typically a female endeavor, but also because when a new male takes over the troop/tribe/clan, he often kills all the male offspring while allowing the females to survive.
In a committed, long term relationship on the other hand, intercourse tends to occur regularly but not every day. Married couples under 30 report having intercourse 2 times a week on average; by 50-59 this rate falls to an average of once a week. Those between 30-50 fall somewhere between the two. Intercourse twice a week or so, averages out to be pretty close to the every 2-4 days that equates to max. sperm numbers and health and sways blue.

We have human studies that indicate more sons are born to people in stable, long term relationships and even one that indicated that families with more sons were less likely to divorce than those of all daughters. That having been said, many of the families I know with all daughters are in very loving and stable relationships and my now-husband and I were kinda rocky and not very committed when we conceived our first son, so I stress again that there are PLENTY of exceptions and this is not meant to be applicable to everyone or offensive to anyone.

2)Single Moms Need Daughters theory: When a woman is having little/no sex, it may send a signal to her body that there is not a man around regularly and as a result, there may be no protector/provider and a girl offspring would have a better chance of survival for the same reasons mentioned above. We have one study that indicates that this is true (single moms do have more daughters than the population as a whole) and actually Charles Darwin himself studied the issue in his book The Descent of Man and came to the same conclusion .

Women who are in short term, whirlwind relationships that may not be fully committed tend to have more sex in the short term than committed couples do, and so frequent intercourse may also signal the body that a girl offspring conceived during the haze of a fledgling relationship would have a better shot at survival, because the male has not proved himself to be a good protector/provider at that point. Our bodies may “know” on some subconscious level, that intercourse every 2-4 days may mean that a father is around to provide meat and protection to our sons.

Additionally, women may be able to sense and respond to the hormones that a partner provides and may even become more fertile in the presence of a male to whom she is not genetically related. Some research indicates that in a home with a stepfather, young girls even enter puberty at younger ages due to these hormonal signals. Things that increase fertility tend to sway blue.

Daughters themselves ~may~ be more of a helpmate to single mothers than sons are. In some primates and many species of birds (human mating patterns closely resemble that of many birds), teenage and adult daughters remain at home helping their mothers to rear siblings, while sons oftentimes are driven off. Primate daughters rear their offspring alongside their mother’s, while dutiful bird daughters actually forgo starting their own families to assist their mothers!!! This assistance from daughters may help to keep her mother and her siblings alive, so the timely birth of a daughter may help to ensure that the entire genetic line has optimal chances of survival.You wrote: Women who are in short term, whirlwind relationships that may not be fully committed tend to have more sex in the short term than committed couples do, and so frequent intercourse may also signal the body that a girl offspring conceived during the haze of a fledgling relationship would have a better shot at survival, because the male has not proved himself to be a good protector/provider at that point. Our bodies may “know” on some subconscious level, that intercourse every 2-4 days may mean that a father is around to provide meat and protection to our sons.

My doubt: we had almost no physical association except ttc fertile period and both of our girls were conceived in one attempt by Lord's grace. Since this time we want to try in swaying blue, I want to know how many months or weeks should we intercourse (2-4 days) to make my body know that my DH is the protector, father etc before ttc?

Sent from my SM-J600G using Tapatalk

[atomic sagebrush]

None of these things are proven and all are just speculation. Please don't get too hung up on them.

What I would do is just have regular unprotected sex when you're not fertile, as far in advance of your sway as is feasible. You don't want to get pregnant just yet (I'm assuming) so you can accomplist that just by avoding your fertile period and having regualr unprotected sex before and after ovulation.

I have no set amount of weeks or months to do this for, just as far in advance as you can. Both before and after your fertile period. When you're not TTC then just avoid the fertile period but do still have unprotected sex. This is what many of us with all boys do - when we're not fertile, we have unprotected sex and then use protection when fertile, as birth control method.

[LMSM]

None of these things are proven and all are just speculation. Please don't get too hung up on them.

What I would do is just have regular unprotected sex when you're not fertile, as far in advance of your sway as is feasible. You don't want to get pregnant just yet (I'm assuming) so you can accomplist that just by avoding your fertile period and having regualr unprotected sex before and after ovulation.

I have no set amount of weeks or months to do this for, just as far in advance as you can. Both before and after your fertile period. When you're not TTC then just avoid the fertile period but do still have unprotected sex. This is what many of us with all boys do - when we're not fertile, we have unprotected sex and then use protection when fertile, as birth control method.


Great _ thanks for that, was going to ask :)
Still haven’t got a cycle back so no idea when and even if fertile so for now, it’s condoms every time, but once I get my cycle back, will aim for this...
Is it worth adding a spermicide ordoes that defeat the purpose?
I want to wait for dd3 to be at least 18 m.o (and in any event at least fully weaned from breast for at least 6+ months) before we ttc...so my cycles will likely return before we ttc,and need to avoid a pregnancy whilst gearing up for swaying and’ ttc. Since O can be elusive, if spermicide isn’t good, what would be best? I d be freaking out about a potential oops if O came early etc haha

[atomic sagebrush]

I suspect spermicide residue sways pink and we played around with the idea for a few months for pink sways. We ended up dropping it not because it didn't work, but because no one got pregnant with it. It feels risky to me and I"d have u use just condoms with condom safe lube like KY. If you're worried about potential oops, I'd skip fertile days.

[LMSM]

Thanks’ Atomic!
Might just chart for a few months once my AF returns to have a good idea of O/fertile days...and going unprotected during non fertile days, then condoms when potentially fertile. I guess that would still give some exposure to DHs sperm before we actually are TTCing so good for blue :D wasn’t keen on temping etc too early ahead because it’s a pain but may be the best option still :P

[atomic sagebrush]

Yes if you're worried you won't recognize the fertility signs around O, that's a-ok! That is what soo many of us with all boys did,myself included. We never used protection except around O!

[LMSM]

I’m so used to being not fertile but not risking it this time lol having said that, mucus was so scarce even with this last babe (abd only natural pregnancy and super quick caption), it’s not enough for me to have enough warning as my peak comes and goes abruptly so not much « lead time » from post AF/dry (non fertile) to watery/EW...so better safe than sorry as could put me in fertile’ without realising it soon enough hehe
Thanks again :)

[atomic sagebrush]

:agree: I totally understand and that's how I got my 4th (BOY!) is that I had so little CM while breastfeeding I did not even realize I was ovulating. I've had more realistic false ovulations than that real ovulation was! Ha ha!

[LMSM]

Thanks ;)
Hubs is nit keen on condom if he can avoid it, so he’ll be happy to oblige haha

[Maureenhdez]

I was just trying to read through some of this. If I understood correctly, I can BD with pullout method before our one attempt, as long as it’s at least 4-5 days before and after our attempt. Is this correct?

I really only wanted to do one attempt total (without any other BD at all in the cycle, even if it is pullout) but my DH refuses to only have one BD the whole cycle. He says it’s destroying our marriage and makes him feel unwanted/unloved[emoji849] it doesn’t help that he doesn’t believe in swaying and he would be just as happy with another boy. So, I was hoping we could BD maybe a few times in the cycle, but all pullout except our actual attempt. We have used pullout as birth control for the past 8 years and it has prevented pregnancy.


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[atomic sagebrush]

PLEASE continue to have intercourse with your husband with protection (pull out is fine) during the other parts of the cycle.

The number of attempts is meant to be UNPROTECTED attempts. It's fine to have sex with protection at other times.

The cardinal rule of swaying is "if daddy ain't happy, ain't nobody happy." Husbands WILL rebel and in some cases have even refused to TTC when we make too stringent swaying demands.

[Maureenhdez]

Thank you! He will be happy to hear it, lol. He has already threatened to pull the plug on ttc at all if things get too strict and I didn’t agree to DTD more often. I know it’s not considered to be BDM approved[emoji849], but I have to put my marriage as a priority and trust that God will take care of the rest.


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[polaris.kai]

Has there been any updated research on this or is it still multiple BD for blue? Just curious because (I know it's not reliable to see it on fb) a lot of women in another group swear by one BD for boy and multiple for girl so I'm just curious if we did it backwards or if they're all just saying stuff without knowing.

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[atomic sagebrush]

Has there been any updated research on this or is it still multiple BD for blue? Just curious because (I know it's not reliable to see it on fb) a lot of women in another group swear by one BD for boy and multiple for girl so I'm just curious if we did it backwards or if they're all just saying stuff without knowing.

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It is still multiple attempts for blue.

I know they say that stuff on other sites but it is based on completely debunked Shettles claims and IT DOES NOT WORK at all. You really really really set yourself up for sway opposites having one attempt for a boy. Many of our opposites were in people who had one attempt.

The majority of those of us with lots of boys (myself included) had sex unprotected out of the fertile window and then just skipped our fertile window or did pullout when we weren't trying. Then when we were trying we did the same thing only who had tons of sex in the fertile window. My only child I had sex only once in the fertile window was with my daughter.

If you're interested, there is a big long story about how we discovered one attempt swayed pink if you'd like to hear it.

[Baby286]

I was reading about couples successful attempts to sway pink & alot of them seem to have achieved this with dtd one day before ovulation. Would you recommend?
Many thanks, B

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[atomic sagebrush]

I was reading about couples successful attempts to sway pink & alot of them seem to have achieved this with dtd one day before ovulation. Would you recommend?
Many thanks, B

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Ever since we found out about one attempt, I've always recommended having it at positive OPK (that is, for most people, the day before ovulation). This is not because timing sways, but because it's great chances of conception with one attempt and it's also easy to pinpoint using the OPK. Many people's cycles change dramatically when swaying so they can't rely on their old patterns to have an ttempt on a certain cycle day, so the OPK are helpful in that scenario.

So yes I do recommend that day as a good day to conceive with one attempt.

[Baby286]

Ever since we found out about one attempt, I've always recommended having it at positive OPK (that is, for most people, the day before ovulation). This is not because timing sways, but because it's great chances of conception with one attempt and it's also easy to pinpoint using the OPK. Many people's cycles change dramatically when swaying so they can't rely on their old patterns to have an ttempt on a certain cycle day, so the OPK are helpful in that scenario.

So yes I do recommend that day as a good day to conceive with one attempt.

Thanks Atomic.


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[nishi]

Thanks Atomic.


Sent from my iPad using TapatalkHi Atomic i want some advice.

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[atomic sagebrush]

Ok! What can I help you with??

[Alina15]

Ok! What can I help you with??

Omg I am so happy this page is still active! Atomic, can I message you or can you point me in the right direction of girl diet? Sorry I know this is the wrong thread for it! It had a recent response from you when I was reading it!

[atomic sagebrush]

Yes absolutely!!

Diet is here: https://www.genderdreaming.com/forum/trying-to-conceive-a-girl/16780-low-everything-diet-nutshell-version.html

FAQ is here: https://www.genderdreaming.com/forum/trying-to-conceive-a-girl/24628-le-diet-faq.html

the Mineral FAQ is here: https://www.genderdreaming.com/forum/ttc-a-girl-best-practices/62533-le-diet-faq-2-mineral-madness-edition.html

[Yane85]

Hi Atomic! This month I stopped PH control, lubes and shallow release to focus just on diet and only ONE attempt. I DTD last Friday at 6pm and had my peak on Monday atound 6pm. To be honest, even though I'm fairly young (35) I think this cutoff did not work. So if I did not get pregnant, I will try next month to DTD closer to ovulation. My question for you is: For girl swaying, do you recommend trying before my peak or trying as soon I get a positive opk? I was trying to do a 2 day cutoff because I conceived my son during ovulation but I am really in a hurry to get pregnant already.

[atomic sagebrush]

Yes, that was too long a cutoff, you had very low chance of conception.

I am completely convinced both on the basis of the science: https://www.genderdreaming.com/forum/gender-swaying-general-discussion/7691-trouble-timing.html and my own experience getting 4 of 5 kids as timing opposites that timing does not work at all. So I recommend having attempt the day of positive OPK because it's easy to get pregnant with one attempt that day. But I understand it's harder for some people to give up on timing and so you may want to have a cutoff still. Please make an attempt closer than that far beforehand.

Just so you know, sex on Friday with a Monday peak is more like a 5 day cutoff since you don't ovulate for 24-36 hours after first peak.

[Yane85]

Hi Atomic! Thank you so much for your response. I thought I had a 2 day cut off since I felt the ovulation pain less than 10 hours after I peaked. But I agree with you, it was way too long of a cutoff. I will follow your advice for next month and will do my one attempt as soon as I get a positive opk. Unless it worked and I got pregnant this month, im still around 4dpo, will update you if I got pregnant.

[atomic sagebrush]

Ovulation pain is not a reliable way to tell when you ovulated. People have ovulation pain before, during and after ovulation and much of what people THINK is coming from the egg being released is actually Fallopian tubes cramping after ovulation or swollen egg follicles before ovulation.

Keep me updated!

[Yane85]

Thank you for the info!! I will try my only attempt next month at positive opk then. Can I ask you, while on the LE diet should I stop prenatals? I stopped them and only took folate.

[atomic sagebrush]

Yes I like to see you guys wean off prenatals for your pink sway!

[Yane85]

Ok, got it! Thanks!

[celina.hitc]

How did it go? Tried many months with cutoff 3 days before ovulation now. Next month it will be cut off to days before. Lots of luck to you!! :)

[Yane85]

How did it go? Tried many months with cutoff 3 days before ovulation now. Next month it will be cut off to days before. Lots of luck to you!! :)I wasn't able to try during November because my husband was away fot work during my fertile week. But I've been strong with the LE diet for several weeks and today is my last day of AF so im getting ready to try my ONE attempt this month (December). I need to conceive asap because I'm loosing too much weight.

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[eln101]

Hello Atomic! I am new here and only recently starting to research gender swaying and have found your forums invaluable as I gather information.

I am part of another gender swaying forum and they suggest to sway blue to DTD every other day from AF-O in order to sway blue. In your opinion, is that adequate? I know you suggest multiple attempts in microwindow but I am terrified that I won't hit O day accurately and may sway pink by DTD on too many days prior to O.

Would I be ok with the EOD method for blue sway?

Just looking for some reassurance as we are starting diet and supps and plan to sway in March.

Thank you!

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[eln101]

Hello Atomic! I am new here and only recently starting to research gender swaying and have found your forums invaluable as I gather information.

I am part of another gender swaying forum and they suggest to sway blue to DTD every other day from AF-O in order to sway blue. In your opinion, is that adequate? I know you suggest multiple attempts in microwindow but I am terrified that I won't hit O day accurately and may sway pink by DTD on too many days prior to O.

Would I be ok with the EOD method for blue sway?

Just looking for some reassurance as we are starting diet and supps and plan to sway in March.

Thank you!

Sent from my SM-N960U using TapatalkI would like to add a few things, I am still breastfeeding my 7 month old. And my husband and I are 39. Thank you!

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[eln101]

It is still multiple attempts for blue.

I know they say that stuff on other sites but it is based on completely debunked Shettles claims and IT DOES NOT WORK at all. You really really really set yourself up for sway opposites having one attempt for a boy. Many of our opposites were in people who had one attempt.

The majority of those of us with lots of boys (myself included) had sex unprotected out of the fertile window and then just skipped our fertile window or did pullout when we weren't trying. Then when we were trying we did the same thing only who had tons of sex in the fertile window. My only child I had sex only once in the fertile window was with my daughter.

If you're interested, there is a big long story about how we discovered one attempt swayed pink if you'd like to hear it.I can attest to this as my daughter was conceived by one attempt only in fertile window as well

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[atomic sagebrush]

can you bump this for me?

[eln101]

can you bump this for me?I'm new to this but hopefully this is what you meant by bump :)

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[atomic sagebrush]

Having sex every other day is not a good way to get a boy because it can end up being only one attempt. For example if you have attempts O-5, O-3, and O-1 that can be only one attempt in the fertile window (o-3 can be invalid, and O-5 is nearly always no good, it's all dead) and if it's O-6, O-4, O-2, and O Day, that can end up being one attempt since O day may be too late.

It is better to aim at having 3 attempts than it sex every day. You can have sex every day but just try to get an additional attempt in that fertile window.

[momma2019]

I'd love to find where you had this written if you have a link? TTC 2 months in and trying so hard not to want to add extra attempts next month!!

[atomic sagebrush]

Where what is written? I'm not sure what exactly you're looking for.

[eln101]

Hello atomic! Can you please help. Ive been testing with opks and my test line is getting darker so just want to make sure my bd is adequate for blue sway. We've done unprotected bd on cd 4, 7, 10. Im in my fertile week so due to my husband's work schedule we are trying to bd every 36 hours. So we bd at 9 am on cd 13 and 9 pm on cd 14. We bd at 9 am today on cd 16 and will bd tomorrow at 9 pm cd 17. I believe I am supposed to ovulate on cd 18 but my husband works 24 hour shift that day and we won't have a chance to bd until 9 am on cd 19. I believe I will have my first positive opk tonight or tomorrow sometime. Im just wondering if this seems like enough bd's for boys?

Ive been taking supps and following pretty high calorie high protein diet for about a month. So assuming everything else is fine, can you please comment on the bd frequency?

Thank you so much! [emoji170][emoji170][emoji170]https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210203/bd4a695e581a300a8286af1a60deee33.jpg

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[eln101]

Hello atomic! Can you please help. Ive been testing with opks and my test line is getting darker so just want to make sure my bd is adequate for blue sway. We've done unprotected bd on cd 4, 7, 10. Im in my fertile week so due to my husband's work schedule we are trying to bd every 36 hours. So we bd at 9 am on cd 13 and 9 pm on cd 14. We bd at 9 am today on cd 16 and will bd tomorrow at 9 pm cd 17. I believe I am supposed to ovulate on cd 18 but my husband works 24 hour shift that day and we won't have a chance to bd until 9 am on cd 19. I believe I will have my first positive opk tonight or tomorrow sometime. Im just wondering if this seems like enough bd's for boys?

Ive been taking supps and following pretty high calorie high protein diet for about a month. So assuming everything else is fine, can you please comment on the bd frequency?

Thank you so much! [emoji170][emoji170][emoji170]https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210203/bd4a695e581a300a8286af1a60deee33.jpg

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[atomic sagebrush]

All you can do is what you can do. Just try to get those attempts in! I would try to even go to CD 20 in case of delayed O.

[Naiad]

I hope it's OK to post this question here atomic. (I didn't think it really needed a new thread.) For swaying girl with the one-attempt method, do you think there is additional benefit in using a condom for any other times of intercourse, even if it's before the fertile window starts?

I'm asking because the author of the Babydust Method talks about this and believes that the less sperm inside us overall, the more our bodies might think it's a good idea to conceive a girl (because intercourse and opportunities aren't plentiful). She does in fact believe that no sex *at all* (just men releasing on their own) from period to ovulation is best, except for the one attempt.

I know the Babydust Method has some real flaws, in particular the timing aspect. But I thought that she maybe had an interesting point regarding the limiting of ejaculation inside. You seem to imply it's fine to release inside every 4 days max when swaying girl, so maybe you think it doesn't add anything to use a condom? After seeing many outcomes here I wonder if it's actually proven to make any difference.

[atomic sagebrush]

Yes it's absolutely ok!

Oh, so she also stole THAT from my research, interesting. That gal sure has sticky fingers. That idea, which I got from my research into evolutionary biology back in 2010-2014, I definitely mentioned for sure in essays predating the publication of the Babydust book in 2016 just like I did with the one attempt. It is in every blue sway plan I've ever done and is the reason why I've always been so emphatic on blue swayers having unprotected sex outside of the fertile window.

Thus I do agree that is something that may come into play. Now, I am not always as emphatic about this because I feel that being too restrictive on sexual intimacy for swaying, often backfires in other ways. It creates a lot of stress (that controlling kind of stress) which may undermine the sway, and many husbands hate that sort of thing - to their minds, we are supposed to be making a baby here, why do they have to use protection? This gets tense for people, furthering the control freakish stress, and can even cause marital issues. We have seen too many people where their husband gets so over swaying that he literally refuses to continue, not only with swaying, but with trying to conceive at all. So there are a lot of potential pitfalls.

We do have good results with every 4 day method sex and so it just cannot be the case that having sex only once per cycle is a prerequisite for swaying pink. You get the pitfalls of not having unprotected sex very often in terms of control freakishness and hubby rebelling, and it can't be swaying that much. That's why I don't put that much emphasis onto it. If you want to try having the rest of the attempts with protection and your husband is ok with that, that's totally fine by me, however.

[Naiad]

Thank you so much! It's been a while since your answer and before your reply we had simply made the decision to sort of go 50/50. To only use condoms when approaching the fertile window (that way I feel it really is going to be just one attempt - had an unplanned pregnancy 4-5 days out from O last year! :suprise: Which resulted in a MC sadly). What you say makes a lot of sense, it's sort of how I thought it is. Condoms really are a pain indeed and particularly my husband doesn't like them. It's really just once per cycle. I can see how it might defy the purpose otherwise. Unfortunately I didn't get pregnant from our attempt earlier in May and just got my period, so we'll just keep going in a similar pattern.