2022 TWW Thread!

[atomic sagebrush]

But it doesn't sway pink, that's the thing. Even with super fertile couples, they're still getting about 50-50, and even on O timing it's also about 50-50. The study that found "more girls conceived" was by a very small margin. I simply need for people to not read that and then think "oh ok timing does sway but it's the opposite". Not applicable to your sway, I'm trying to look out for other people who will read this post (in many cases years later) and then either come to me asking about this, or worse, simply go ahead without talking about it with me. (I really do have people come to me about posts like this, so I have learned over the years to be proactive)

You need to keep in mind, though, that first of all getting pregnant with a long cutoff is unusual, not at all the norm. And secondly, when you are doing things to sway it is entirely, entirely likely that you have less ability for sperm to stay alive inside you for very long. And finally, the earlier it is in the cycle, the less ability the sperm have to stay alive. An attempt on CD 8 was all but 100% not viable. It just doesn't happen. Even if you have some EWCM, the vaginal environment is

CD 8 was not "3 days before ovulation". You got a positive OPK on CD 11 which means CD 12 or 13 ovulation. You're basing your belief that you had an attempt 3 days before O on the basis of O pains, which are just not reliable. I suspect that CD 8 was too early because the fertile window generally doesn't open that early and O was CD 12/13 anyway.

Yes I completely agree with your assessment re DH. The more people hem and haw, their husband starts thinking "hmm well maybe ~I~ don't want to do this, and she seems unsure, and this is all getting very odd, I've changed my mind" Even with otherwise kind and decent hubbies, this does happen.

I can't really characterize the amount or importance of the various sway tactics. You didn't have two attempts anyway!

[atomic sagebrush]

Oh and yes that's the thing - of course boys are conceived "around O" because ALL babies are conceived around O! Both boys and girls, most of the children ever conceived are in a very narrow window of time in the cycle. So it's really misleading to look back and think "but I got this baby around O" because it's true of everyone!

[Cookies22]

That's SO true! Oh my gosh, I was literally just thinking that today too. To nit pick between 0-1 or 0-2 or 0-3 is crazy because they're all basically the same anyway and we can't even know when we ovulate.

I was thinking hypothetically, ok, so say I had decided to sway shettles style... I would never have chosen to go with a 3 day cut off! Which would have meant skipping a month down the gurgler for nothing! And as you say, I probably ovulated CD 12 or 13, I had cramps late in the evening of CD11, which would mean O would at least be CD12, morning or afternoon of CD12, not 11, which would be a FOUR day cut off for sperm and nobody's getting preg with that.

I read on the Clearblue website that after a positive clear blue OPK you're fertile for the next two days, which means I could have easily had a 1 or 2 day cut off this cycle without realising. With DS2 I BD one day, had cramps at the same time on the following day, but my temp didn't rise until a day later. I'm bloody glad I didn't temp this cycle because OPKs do my head in enough!

I think all the women I know who say they fell pregnant according to Shettles did so because it was a 1 attempt baby. That would explain why so many 'whoopsies' seem to be girls (but I also know a TONNE who are boys too).

I also realised the 0+12 theory is surely just people falling pregnant by DTD on ovulation day? We BD a couple of hours before I had ovulation cramps... by the time the egg had dropped and most of the sperm had capacitated, it would have probably been around 10 hours after the egg drop, which would mean theoretically 0+12?!

Like there's literally no way to know what timing you actually did other than DTD at Pos OPK!

I think the reason I've been ruminating so hard over it is mainly because of pregnancy hormones and because DS2 was conceived first try, 1 day before O, while swaying. This time I have been on the diet longer and have lost quite a bit more weight (4.8kg lost over 5 months (14 weeks of which was LE) rather than 1.7kg over 11 weeks last time) and was drinking every night, exercising 6 days a week for 1 hour. Just feels like so much is similar / the same as last time, if you know what I mean. But honestly, my adoring, affectionate, devoted sons are the loves of my life. I will be honoured to have another and feel very blessed that whoever has chosen me, has chosen me. LUCKY ME!

[atomic sagebrush]

Yes exactly!! 100% agree!

The Clearblue stuff is just a ballpark too. We see by far more people ovulating even 3 days after the first positive than we do <24 hours after. The OPK just are not that precise. So it was at least 1 day, entirely likely 2, and possibly 2 1/2-3. This is why I HATE to see people trying with those "before positive OPK" cutoffs. I simply do not see people conceiving that way.

about the one attempt babies and Shettles. I just die inside when I see blue swayers trying Shettles because I know it sways at least somewhat blue for them. It's actually a miracle that anyone ever got boys with Shettles blue timing but I assume it's because people who were either daily sex people (Then again, literally everyone I know IRL who tried Shettles for a boy had a girl, so...)

Yes that's absolutely right. That is in no small part why I like one attempt at first pos so well. There's no guesswork, there's no "maybe I did this, maybe I did that", it's EASY so people aren't obsessing over their cervical position, the type and amount of CM (none of which is reliable anyway). OPK of course have their limitations but it's really the only REAL thing we have to go off of.

It's so hard to let go of some of these strategies! But you did make some very real changes (and you didn't mention this, but the difference between standard and alternate LE Diet has been HUGE in terms of changing outcomes after a sway opposite) and I think you're sitting pretty with a great chance of pink.

[Cookies22]

Hi Atomic, just letting you know I'm having a miscarriage. I'm heartbroken. It's been a very hard morning. I loved that little baby so much already & our family felt complete with it in it.

I don't know what to do now, other than be gentle with myself and nourish my body as much as I can because I'm so thin. I likely need to gain some weight back so that I can be fertile enough to fall pregnant and maintain a pregnancy. This is my first time experiencing this and it's so hard, I'm just so very sad. I spoke to my old obgyn and he said it's sad but don't worry, that I'm obviously fertile because I fell pregnant easily with 2 and 3, so just take it easy. I’ve also read that underweight women are much more likely to miscarry, so I am trying not to blame myself but it’s in my mind there as you’d imagine.

I don't know if I want to do any sway stuff anymore, the exercise and low nutrient etc, I'm trying to work out if it even matters to me... I don't know, I'm just processing it all I guess. Such a strange feeling.

[atomic sagebrush]

Oh no I'm so sorry to read this.

While I do definitely think you're too thin and I'd love to see you gain a bit of weight back, the chances that you caused this loss are really just non-existent. Please don't beat yourself up over this. People will see disruptions in their cycle LONG before a pregnancy would not work out due to low weight. That you were ovulating regularly and got pregnant easily indicates this had nothing whatsoever to do with your weight and was most likely (as most losses are) a chromosomal abnormality that was totally unavoidable.

If you do want to try and sway in a healthier way, with gaining some weight back as we go, I am happy to help you do that but I don't want to try and sell you on it. Just let me know. We have had many people who lost too much and I do have many tricks up my sleeve in terms of gaining weight back. But I would urge you to continue with full fat dairy and whole grains, and not having gobs of sugar either. That is going to help you with egg quality anyway and it's also more pink-friendly than a quick and "dirty" sugar/carb fueled weight gain would be.

Take care of yourself and let me know how I can help.

[treens]

cookies Im so sorry for your loss. You did nothing wrong at all. There was just something that wasn't right. You are totally aloud to grieve and feel the way you do. But when you are ready there is a bright world out there waiting for you to be a mother again. Big hugs and healing energy to you

[Cookies22]

Thank you both so much, Atomic and Treens. It’s so painful and so sad, it’s amazing the way you really do love your baby so strongly from the moment they are two pink lines on a pregnancy test. I feel like I’m missing someone I never got to meet. We had a dating scan booked & they were due December 4. Everything felt so perfect, the age gap is just what I’d dreamed of for #2 and 3 and now I know that if I’m lucky enough to fall pregnant again, it’s going to be so much harder, I will be so anxious and I already suffer from prenatal anxiety. It’s a scary road huh. Part of me wishes we’d started trying earlier because I worry about a big gap between 2 and 3 (my first two are 2.5 years apart and my youngest is now 2.5 years old himself). But DH hasn’t been ready til now so I don’t think I had any other choice.

I’ve weighed myself this morning and I’m not as thin as I thought I was — 56.4kg today. I think I’m just going to eat as normal while I pass this pregnancy, then see how I feel after that. I feel like I need the strength from food.

I’ve read you’re more fertile than usual for the 3 months following a loss, so I do want to keep trying, just not obsessively, so I might use OPKs after a week or so because I have them here anyway. That way I can give it a shot if we feel like it on a day when I get a positive. I've also read losses sway pink, is that true Atomic?

I'm not sure when I’ll return to exercise again, it's flooding again here (Australia), fourth flood in the past 6 weeks. I've been eating more frequently than I would on LE, but not for long I guess, and there's no other way it could have been done; once I was pregnant I was eating avocado on toast etc to keep the nausea at bay.

[atomic sagebrush]

Yes it's so hard to come back after a loss - just take it a day at a time.

That's what I want everyone to do - just do whatever required for self-care until you feel up to possibly resuming diet/exercise. This may be for days or even weeks. Listen to what your body is telling you.

Just in the interest of full disclosure, the idea that "women are more fertile after a loss" is very far from proven. It's something that while well-intentioned, is probably not strictly true (if it IS true in some cases it's most likely due to releasing more eggs due to hormonal fluctuations, and NOT that you're overall "more fertile".) If your loss is truly depleting, your body "doesn't want to" get pregnant too soon because that could literally kill you, so it takes steps not to conceive too soon, thereby reducing fertility.

We have good results the first cycle after a loss - 76%, which is considerably higher than the overall success rates of the site as a whole. (Keep in mind, others who may be reading this, that this approach may not be right or desirable for you. The later the loss, the more likely it is necessary to wait that first cycle out.)

with either using OPK or just e4d method when you feel up to it.

Avocado on toast is honestly not bad for pink. I wouldn't feel bad about that at all (even when swaying) as long as you stay in the limits, if you like that as a meal. Doesn't have scads of protein and is a great way to get in some potassium and some good vegetable based fats in it.

[Cookies22]

Thanks Atomic. I really appreciate your advice and support.

I'm wondering what you would do if you were me? I knew I was pregnant for about a week and a half, so I've been off exercise for about 1.5 weeks now, and while I was pregnant I was eating normally (eating breakfast to keep morning sickness at bay, & snacking more than I did on LE. Probably still within 1500 calories, but maybe a bit more sugar & fat than usual, I usually eat zero sugar). I also took pre-natal supplements for that week and a half. Now my miscarriage has almost finished and I'm wondering if we should have a shot when I ovulate in 10 days or so.

I haven't been exercising, but I was exercising 6 x a week for 14 weeks prior to this, and this weekend we decided to go away for a family holiday just to get away from home and refresh after everything, so I've been walking a lot with the kids (zoo & rainforest centre adventures) even though I haven't been doing my 1 hour cardio. Last time I weighed myself I was 56.5kg.

I had hotel breakfast at 11 today instead of my usual 12. I'm wondering if Covid would sway slightly too because I've been pretty run down between Covid, morning sickness & miscarriage. I'm feeling quite delicate and wondering if I'm emotionally ready, but also if I'm throwing a sway down the drain by trying so soon after pregnancy with a week of supplements. I don't want to waste any time, this babe would be due 4 Jan if we fell pregnant, which is a pretty weird due date with my DS starting school a month later, but just weighing it all up. That 76% is pretty tempting! Leaning towards going for it, unless you think my sway is no good after a couple of weeks off it all.

I'd love your advice... Xx