Due in December/January/February 2013/14

[meeks32]

Waiting4Daisy - Oooh, that sounds promising!! No willy, nice comments from tech...if I were you, I would totally be thinking pink!!

Meeks - I think those that have caesarians from the beginning don't think they're that bad, and those that have a c after vaginal think they're awful! But you're right...they're both hard on the body and you have to recover in different ways. I feel pretty blessed with mine so far...have had pretty good experiences each time. Praying for another with Ds4!

Onthepond - Will most definitely pray for placenta to move!! I have confidence that it CAN move...so prayers headed your way, for sure!

two1984 - Will this be your last baby, now that you have your girl? Or will you try for a sister for your DD?

AFM - Doing ok, no issues with baby...feeling a little more movement, but still not much. Grrr. Hoping it means he's laid back! God knows I need another like DS2!

In other news, my 94-year-old grandpa had a stroke this week, and it does not look like he's going to make it. He was married 60+ years before my grandma passed away 3 years ago...they have 5 kids and loads of grandkids and great-grandkids. Such a legacy my sweet grandpa is leaving. I got to talk to him on the phone today (he is 1700 miles away across the country), although he couldn't respond much...he did say a couple things, and I was so happy to be able to say goodbye and tell him how much I love him. Done some crying today, but I know I will see him again in heaven one day.

I think the point about caesarians is that most people who have them, don't choose to, they are forced to for medical reasons, and spend their lives being told by all kinds of people in all forms of media that this somehow makes them a lesser person, that it isn't 'really' giving birth, that it's awful, or shameful, or comes with risks x, y, and z.

I think birth is pretty difficult no matter how it happens but of course we all know its a means to an end, and that baby makes everything worthwhile. Having mum stress about birth not going to plan because of some worry the media or society has put in her head is not healthy for her or baby. Especially when she can't control the outcome.

I'm so sorry to hear about your grandpa, how lucky you were to be able to say goodbye, it's emotional, but how often do you get to say everything knowing what is about to happen? I'm sure your words were of comfort to him, and hope you were able to feel closure. Xx

[Dreamofpink]

I think the point about caesarians is that most people who have them, don't choose to, they are forced to for medical reasons, and spend their lives being told by all kinds of people in all forms of media that this somehow makes them a lesser person, that it isn't 'really' giving birth, that it's awful, or shameful, or comes with risks x, y, and z.

I think birth is pretty difficult no matter how it happens but of course we all know its a means to an end, and that baby makes everything worthwhile. Having mum stress about birth not going to plan because of some worry the media or society has put in her head is not healthy for her or baby. Especially when she can't control the outcome.

I'm so sorry to hear about your grandpa, how lucky you were to be able to say goodbye, it's emotional, but how often do you get to say everything knowing what is about to happen? I'm sure your words were of comfort to him, and hope you were able to feel closure. Xx

Well said Meeks. It broke my heart to have to have a c-section with ds1. The choice was very stark though c-section or full blown eclampsia potentially leading to death for both of us as they couldn't control it with drugs. I did feel like a failure, I couldn't even keep my baby safe to term & it took a lot of counselling to come to terms with what had happened.

With ds2 I felt the failure to give birth even more as my vbac had not gone to plan. I didn't get past 2cm with my waters gone. Coupled with my gd I felt like I wasn't a proper woman.

This time I have been using a Natal Hypnotherapy cd preparing for a vbac & it's great for teaching you to let go of the negative emotions surrounding a c-section. When I was expecting ds1 it was the most scary thing to contemplate in the world, but I've now had two, I really don't want another. However it's more to do with complications in future births than anything else. If this was our definite last I wouldn't be as worried. I must say that because I was well with my second c-section, it was a much better experience. Ds2 was kept in the theatre with us & as soon as I was stitched up & put in the side room for recovery they gave him straight to me for skin to skin & he latched right on. I never felt much pain in recovery either & hardly needed strong pain killers at home.

This time I just dream of giving birth & walking around straight after! Maybe like John Wayne, but still....! I will embrace every contraction as (hopefully!) a pain taking me further away from the operating theatre. I want the pain!! Haha!! I know you ladies will be chuckling thinking 'ha if only she knew!' You have my full permission to say 'I told you so!' afterwards!

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[Waiting4Daisy]

Meeks when I had ds1 the midwife told me about a woman who refused a c section with health risks for twins and both she and her twins died. As mums we do whatever it takes to deliver our babies safely and that means putting our own birth preferences to one side. I'd never want a c section but if I was advised I'd have one in a heartbeat to ensure I could hold my baby at the end of it all.

[Emily]

Urgh! Media pressure. Having a C section does not make you less of a woman just as having a drug free birth does not make you more of a woman. Youdon't get an extra baby as a prize for delivering vaginally

Not being able to conceive at all does not make you less of a woman either. My poor friend has been trying for ages and I am positive nobody thinks that except her.

If we all get our babies out healthy and feel normal soon afterwards that is all we can hope for. Hugs to everyone fearing a C section I am sure that they are as safe as possible and to be honest squeezing a baby out of a hole that small isn't a barrel lof laughs either! LOL.

[myrainbowgirl]

I hope I didn't come across as trying to scare anyone about a C! Honestly, I have no clue, as I've never had one! I have heard women who've had them from the beginning say that they're not that bad...and then women who've had them after a vaginal say they were terrible. It's all about perspective! I completely agree with Waiting4Daisy that I would do it in a heartbeat if there was any question of the outcome of either my health or the baby's. And TRULY, I would take no vaginal birth any day over not getting to experience a daughter. Cut me open, I don't care...just give me a daughter, please!! And I mean that. You ladies getting your DG are so incredibly lucky, and I am jealous (not in a bad way...happy for you, of course ). Although I know that each one of us are
SO blessed, even though we didn't all get our DG.

Anyway, sorry if I offended anyone! Yes, hugs to anyone fearing a C-section...it could be me just as much as any of you that will end up with one. And it will be ok in the end!

[Dreamofpink]

You certainly didn't offend me myrainbowgirl! It's just the whole media/cultural attitude towards birth that's offensive. In a strange way I feel like my dramatic birth story of ds1 vindicated the delivery far more than with ds2's 'failure to progress'. Urgh! When even the docs call it that they've effectively branded your body useless. However with a life/death illness the delivery was the only cure. Hope you understand what I'm getting at. I think the language used by professionals/media needs to be less provocative & empowering for the women involved. After all without the miracle of medicine & safe c-sections, 100 years ago I'd have been another statistic in the Victorian record books put down to fits in pregnancy. Urgh! Ds1 & ds2 (& ds3!) wouldn't be here either, poor DH would be a widower too. Crikey I do sound melodramatic! I feel really strongly that the culture around birth needs to change - can't you tell?!

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[meeks32]

You certainly didn't offend me myrainbowgirl! It's just the whole media/cultural attitude towards birth that's offensive. In a strange way I feel like my dramatic birth story of ds1 vindicated the delivery far more than with ds2's 'failure to progress'. Urgh! When even the docs call it that they've effectively branded your body useless. However with a life/death illness the delivery was the only cure. Hope you understand what I'm getting at. I think the language used by professionals/media needs to be less provocative & empowering for the women involved. After all without the miracle of medicine & safe c-sections, 100 years ago I'd have been another statistic in the Victorian record books put down to fits in pregnancy. Urgh! Ds1 & ds2 (& ds3!) wouldn't be here either, poor DH would be a widower too. Crikey I do sound melodramatic! I feel really strongly that the culture around birth needs to change - can't you tell?!

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I know! I was told 100 years ago I would have died too, and most likely ds1 as well. I feel EXACTLY the same about the terminology too. In Australia, if your doctor tells you that you must have a caesarian for medical reasons, and this is planned before you go into labour, the hospital and doctor call it an "elective caesarian". ELECTIVE my fucking arse, you just said I HAD to and now I have a midwife asking if I am booking my ELECTIVE caesarian, like I CHOSE it. GRRRRR. Can't they call it a planned caesarian? or medical caesarian?

I feel the same with ds1 vs ds2's caesarians. Ds1 was emergency, after 48hrs in labour and 1.5hrs of pushing, there were many, many complications and it was a huge rush. Lets just say (without scaring anyone) the procedure itself didn't go that well either, and the whole experience almost killed me. literally. I also lost 1.5L of blood due to those complications, and spent 4hrs in surgery afterwards under general anaesthetic. Needless to say ds2's failure to go head down and consequent caesarian felt like a 'cop out' in comparison, and I had more guilt about that one because I felt there was some grey area about how maybe I could have gotten him to turn and stay head down, despite the previous complications from ds1 and small gap between them being factors that made the doctor ban me from natural birth anyway. I still had a tinge of "what if".

This time I was under then impression I was still banned from giving birth, but last appointment, out of nowhere, the doctor asked if I was still happy with a caesarian, implying I may choose vbac. He was rushed so i'm not sure he opened my file to remember it was me, but now I plan to ask him next appointment. Or maybe I will wait until i'm 34+weeks and see if this baby is head down before getting all worked up and excited about a potential for natural birth. DH keeps reminding me we had pelvic scans after ds1 that came back saying there was NO WAY I could fit anything over 6 pounds out my stupid small/oddly shaped pelvis (the only part of me that was ever small, let me just say), and that the doctor previously advised I was unlikely to have a baby that size even with induction at 38 weeks given myself and my husband are both tall (he is far over 6 foot). Both our boys were 8 pound 6 and 8 pound 4, the lesser born at 38 weeks. So I know, I know, I shouldnt hope. But I am wondering. I would love nothing more than to be able to walk straight away too!!!

I think the only way I could possibly do it, is if I was induced at 38weeks so baby wasnt too big. But I am almost certain they dont do that in Australia. They rarely induce unless there is a failure to progress during labour. And with ds1 I didn't naturally go into labour until 42 weeks! I was 14 days over by the time I had him.

The one thing I simply will not stand for (personally) is an emergency caesarian during labour. Because that's what happened with ds1 and in my mind, I simply can't. I am still far too traumatised by what happened there. But I can't see any option. If I fail to progress again, that IS the only option.

Oh I don't know, stupid pregnancy hormones, making me so indecisive.

[Soar]

I love all this talk about c sections! :-) my thought is God gave us 2 ways to have a baby vaginally or a c section! Either way is perfectly perfect for that baby! Both give you the little miracle you have been waiting to meet! So glad everyone is so supportive of each other here! This is a great group!

Rainbow-so sorry about your grandpa! Prayers your way! Grandparents are so special! My DH's grandma is 92 and she is the most amazing women! Living into their 90's is so inspiring!

Onthepond-hope you are feeling good and also feeling less stressed about a possible c section! But still hoping it moves for you!

Have a good week everyone!

[Emily]

I hope I didn't come across as trying to scare anyone about a C! Honestly, I have no clue, as I've never had one! I have heard women who've had them from the beginning say that they're not that bad...and then women who've had them after a vaginal say they were terrible. It's all about perspective! I completely agree with Waiting4Daisy that I would do it in a heartbeat if there was any question of the outcome of either my health or the baby's. And TRULY, I would take no vaginal birth any day over not getting to experience a daughter. Cut me open, I don't care...just give me a daughter, please!! And I mean that. You ladies getting your DG are so incredibly lucky, and I am jealous (not in a bad way...happy for you, of course ). Although I know that each one of us are
SO blessed, even though we didn't all get our DG.

Anyway, sorry if I offended anyone! Yes, hugs to anyone fearing a C-section...it could be me just as much as any of you that will end up with one. And it will be ok in the end!

Don't worry about offending anyone this is exactly the place that you should be able to vent and discuss what is worrying you. Most peopke IRL won't give you all the facts for fear of scaring you / influencing your choice but it is different here.

There are ladies here that have had C sections, Vbacs, vaginal deliveries etc so it is a great source of knowledge.

Meeks my doctor also insulted my oddly shaped pelvis and told me it was too small! She also told me my cervix was all wrong.??!! I have never managed to push one out without assistance so she was right!

Personally I am arranging for my baby to be delivered by pink storks with butterflies and a disney sound track. No blood, enemas, stiches, strange moustached men starring at my bits or contracting in the corridor for two hours waiting for a room for me this time

[Tree]

Isn't it mad we are talking about delivery!!! It could be (if I was lucky) as little as 7 or 8 weeks for me, but I expect it will be 12, and as standard I'll go to 42 weeks!!
Really interesting reading about csections. I've had two vaginal births, both quite scary! I'd like to have the 'perfect' vaginal birth but if I had known the potential risks I was going to encounter (particularly with my first - shoulder dystocia) I would have opted for a section. There is no question I don't think about how I will deliver this time, provided of course the baby gets head down etc... And a (smooth) vaginal delivery is my preference, but if for any reason I was told I had to have a section a small part of me would feel relieved for my baby. I don't know enough about sections really but it seems to me that they are safer and less traumatic for babies? It's us that suffers with the risks and recovery?
I suppose if you look at it this way the one thing that you can say is that a section is best for baby!?
Apparently there was a study that showed people born by csection were more relaxed. I presume these were the 'elective' ones and not the ones that nearly made it vaginally but then didn't.

Rainbow I'm very sorry to hear about your grandpa!