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  1. #1
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    Understanding the "Law" of Testosterone Supply and Demand

    UPDATE 12-25-17 While we are no longer sure that whatever sways via personality factors is truly "testosterone" itself, the suggestions in this thread are still sound ones and since most people do still believe in testosterone for swaying (high T = blue, low T = pink) it's still a worthwhile thread to read.

    For the definitive thread on personality factors and swaying please read this. http://genderdreaming.com/forum/gend...ypothesis.html

    The production of testosterone is an unbelievably complicated process described here: Testosterone - Wikipedia Still with me? The good news is, we don't have to understand all that gobbeldygook to use testosterone (or lack thereof) to our advantage when swaying.

    Nutshell version - cholesterol Cholesterol - Wikipedia is the building block of ALL steroid hormones. Your body makes most of its cholesterol and gets a smaller amount via diet (only 10-15% of your cholesterol comes through diet). You DON'T need to eat gargantuan amounts of cholesterol to have plenty of the stuff, your body makes it out of saturated fats and even animal protein itself. In turn, it uses that cholesterol that it made, to build ALL your hormones, progesterone, testosterone, and estrogen alike.

    Consequently, you don't have to eat testosterone-laden foods to make testosterone or to have all boys. Some swaying diets have red meat listed as boy-friendly and chicken and eggs listed as girl-friendly, because red meat has testosterone and chicken and eggs have progesterone, but that doesn't matter. Your body MAKES cholesterol out of the saturated fats in ALL meats, eggs, saturated plant fats like coconut, and full-fat dairy foods, and then turns that cholesterol into testosterone, estrogen, and progesterone.

    If your body decides to make less testosterone/estrogen and more progesterone, it's not because you're EATING less testosterone and more progesterone, it's because of other cues in your body that send the signal to your body to make less testosterone and more progesterone. In fact, your body produces progesterone BEFORE it makes testosterone, and testosterone is later turned into estrogen. The three are all part of the same process. You cannot divorce the three hormones and treat them in such a simple manner as, "More testosterone and estrogen = boys, more progesterone = girls" because SOMETHING is causing your body to produce these different levels of hormones.

    That SOMETHING is the key to gender swaying.

    When I talk about "testosterone supply and demand", what I'm really saying is that there are (at least) two variables in the equation. One is the amount of raw materials you have available to make testosterone (or whatever it is that is swaying via personality factors) with. So we try and control this amount, firstly through diet. For blue swayers, by eating more saturated fats that raise the so-called "bad" cholesterol and also healthy fats that raise the so-called "good" cholesterol, in addition to other various nutrients that help with the process. For pink swayers, we eat less fat and protein overall and less of the nutrients that are proven to help your body manufacture testosterone (like Vitamins A and D, among others.)

    We also take supplements that raise or lower the amount of testosterone circulating in our bodies, raise or lower the amount of cholesterol that our body turns into testosterone (you can have both high cholesterol and low testosterone if your body is not getting the "signal" to produce testosterone), and even raise or lower the amount of testosterone that our bodies make out of whatever raw materials are available (some foods that lower cholesterol actually raise testosterone, like oats).

    UPDATE - PLEASE do not go online and try to take every herb ever said to raise or lower testosterone. Firstly because we don't even know that testosterone is even doing anything!! And secondly because all those herbs have risks and side effects that may make it harder or impossible for you to get and stay pregnant, may have risks and side effects that are harmful to you or an unborn baby, and additionally may even have side effects that end up affecting your sway negatively. Since we do not even know that testosterone is even swaying, it is entirely possible to take an herb that has been rumored to "raise or lower testosterone" only to have it do some other thing that no one yet understands that undermines your sway via some other mechanism entirely!

    But all this is to no avail if we do not address the second half of the equation - DEMAND. Pink swayers, if we do not convince our bodies that we need less testosterone in order to survive, it will carry on producing testosterone using whatever it can scrounge up. And blue swayers, if our bodies don't "think" they need testosterone, and in some instances may even survive better without it, it will salvage its energy for other things and continue on with less testosterone (or whatever it is that is really swaying via the personality factors).

    Our bodies produce testosterone for SURVIVAL. In nature, dominant animals (both physically and socially dominant) face constant challenges to their authority and need that testosterone to maintain their physical and social superiority and take on challengers. Submissive animals have a much better chance of survival if they are non-confrontational and so their testosterone levels tend to drop if they decline challenges, or lose.

    It isn't hard to see how this translates into modern-day life. If you're always taking on challenges, both mental and physical, that you enjoy, and you tend to succeed at them, your testosterone levels are probably higher than another person who feels doomed to fail at every endeavor, or who has to struggle and work constantly just to get by, or has been put down and persecuted a lot in life. (This does NOT mean that people with lower T levels are victims or failures, there are many paths to low testosterone.)

    Taking it a step further to swaying...

    (Note - No one needs to take offense at any of this, it's meant to be general observations and conjecture and not extrapolate to every person. Keep in mind that there are many factors that sway such as smoking and skipping breakfast, which have NOTHING to do with testosterone or dominance whatsoever.)

    A lot of boy-moms (aka pink swayers) have tended to be very much go-getters with a tendency to get SUPERobsessed with the details of everything in life, and having the "perfect" sway is just another thing to obsess over. I have seen some boy-moms even say point blank that the reason their GD was so bad is because getting a daughter was the only thing in life that they hadn't "accomplished" and they view swaying as a challenge to be overcome and a prize to be won.

    Some of the blue swayers, on the other hand, have been more easily overwhelmed by swaying and feel that they literally CAN'T conceive a baby boy because something is wrong with them or they are being punished in some way. I have also noticed (and this is just a generalization and in no way meant to be offensive to anyone at all) that ~some~ of the girl-moms desperately want sons not for themselves, but for others - their husbands, fathers, or society at large. Not having a son is something that they equate with letting other people down, of being a disappointment to the people they care about.

    Going back to the idea of an equation, it is GREAT for our sway if we do everything we can to increase or limit the supply of raw materials for our body to manufacture into testosterone. But unless we address the demand aspect and work on changing our habits and attitudes as well, our body may simply continue on as it was. Swaying can even aggravate this by making blue swayers feel terribly pressured and discouraged and lowering their testosterone, or making pink swayers focus too much on details and obsessing over every aspect of their sway and raising their levels.

    Supply + Demand = testosterone. Even if your supply drops to ZERO - which is impossible because your body will do ANYTHING to keep you alive, even down to making testosterone out of your last cubic centimeter of body fat - if your body senses that you need testosterone, it will continue making it. And even if you have sky high cholesterol, if your body thinks that high testosterone will reduce your overall odds of survival (animals who are physically less able to defend themselves are ill-suited to getting into a lot of fights or even just asserting themselves socially)it will not use that cholesterol to raise your testosterone levels. It will save it for a rainy day when it's needed.

    Here are some non-diet, non-supplement ways of increasing demand and raising your testosterone levels for blue swayers -

    Weight training and moderate exercise (they emulate taking on and overcoming physical challenges) - possibly even something that involves fighting like kickboxing or TaeBo,

    Getting enough sleep

    Taking on and overcoming challenges (these don't have to be big things, even something small like driving to a new part of town or playing board games with your kids or video games where you're competing against yourself or the computer can help)

    Putting yourself in a position of authority over others can help to raise your testosterone levels.

    Above all, try to focus on the positive...you CAN conceive a son and if swaying begins to feel overwhelming and undoable to you, take a break and regroup.

    Here are some ways of decreasing demand and lowering your testosterone levels for pink swayers -

    Either NO exercise or extreme exercise, minimum 60 minutes a day, 6-7 days a week (makes your body think you're either keeping your head down and avoid notice, or you're having to work very hard just to survive)

    Getting less sleep than normal

    Avoiding things like social media and video games if you tend to be very competitive, particularly if you were using these things when you got your boys

    Walking away from arguments and declining challenges that you would ordinarily take on

    Above all, you must NOT get obsessed over swaying. If you know you're prone to that kind of thinking, do not include any of the more nitpicky swaying aspects like timing and pH that take a lot of constant monitoring and tracking, because it just keeps it in the forefront of your mind constantly. Please read the following: http://genderdreaming.com/forum/ttc-...aycession.html

    Aside from sheer bad luck, testosterone levels are the number one reason why good sways fail. It's not enough just to affect your supply, you must also address demand, in order for your sway to succeed.
    Last edited by atomic sagebrush; December 25th, 2017 at 10:57 AM.
    !!! Questions?? Check out the NEW and improved Complete Index !!!

    LOOKING FOR YOUR SWAY PLAN? Have you checked the coaching forum? It will be posted in the same place your questionnaire is! https://www.genderdreaming.com/forum/completed-questionnaires-and-private-coaching-access/

    LE Diet Ideas Threads: https://www.genderdreaming.com/forum/trying-to-conceive-a-girl/54174-brand-sparkly-pink-new-diet-thread-girl-sways.html and here:https://www.genderdreaming.com/forum/trying-to-conceive-a-girl/54926-le-diet-thread.html?highlight=le+diet+meal+ideas

    LE Diet PCOS idea thread here: https://www.genderdreaming.com/forum/trying-to-conceive-a-girl/47264-le-diet-pcos.html

    PLEASE STOP SENDING ME SWAYING QUESTIONS VIA PRIVATE MESSAGE. Post swaying questions in the forums ONLY.

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  3. #2
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    THANK YOU!!! I think this is the biggest obstacle I'm tackling in my sway. Lately, I've been trying to modify things in my life to help with the sway. For example, I sometimes play an annoyingly addictive game on my iPad (Fruit Ninja ) I can feel my competitive side come out. I have since de-installed it and any other games like that as they are not doing me any favors, time-wise or T-wise. I am thinking of starting yoga again as it seems like it really relaxes me but would it increase my T b/c it builds muscle? Are there any particular activities you could think of that would be up a pink swayer's alley? Should I be watching "chic-flicks" instead of CSI, lol?

    This post came at a perfect time, Atomic!
    Last edited by Out of the Blue; July 3rd, 2011 at 08:29 AM.
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  4. #3
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    This is a fantastic article (again - thanks Atomic!) but I still find it a little depressing! I'm doing what I can to lower the supply of testosterone but the demand is another thing .... Actually, I think maybe I am a little better. I believe my attitude at work has changed - we have some tight deadlines at the moment and usually I'd work evenings to meet them but I've said I'll do it all as quickly as I can and it'll be done when it's done - but I'm in a well paid job and I can't get in trouble for not meeting deadlines! A lot of the time I should be doing things around the house I'm obsessing over new posts on this site. It's terrible to admit really, I should be outside in the garden with the boys but we're indoors and they're amusing themselves (which they don't mind but still!) so I can 'research'. I feel it's a good thing that I'm not diving straight in to swaying and have a few months to decide what our plan is because as time passes it becomes clearer and less of a minefield and I don't have to think so hard about it - but perhaps I really do need to step back from the obsession of checking in here. Maybe I should start taking baths in the evenings instead of turning the laptop on (but I don't want to, I like it here!!!). I just get the feeling that this isn't something I can change all that much about me because it's how I am (the other women in my family, my mum and my sister are not like me, everybody says I have my dad's attitude!). I feel like I can only possibly have another boy - but perhaps that's a good thing to feel that way lol!

    Atomic, are you talking only about testosterone in the female? How important are male testosterone levels do you think?
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  5. #4
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    hmm so perhaps women with thyroid problems might not be able to do much to prevent their body swaying on it's own... regardless of how few onions or how much fat they eat, although that does assume that hormone levels are a key swaying factor

    I do think there's a difference between stressing and obsessing, though. I don't think obsessing necessarily sways, but I do think stressing does!

  6. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by zanacal View Post
    This is a fantastic article (again - thanks Atomic!) but I still find it a little depressing! I'm doing what I can to lower the supply of testosterone but the demand is another thing .... Actually, I think maybe I am a little better. I believe my attitude at work has changed - we have some tight deadlines at the moment and usually I'd work evenings to meet them but I've said I'll do it all as quickly as I can and it'll be done when it's done - but I'm in a well paid job and I can't get in trouble for not meeting deadlines! A lot of the time I should be doing things around the house I'm obsessing over new posts on this site. It's terrible to admit really, I should be outside in the garden with the boys but we're indoors and they're amusing themselves (which they don't mind but still!) so I can 'research'. I feel it's a good thing that I'm not diving straight in to swaying and have a few months to decide what our plan is because as time passes it becomes clearer and less of a minefield and I don't have to think so hard about it - but perhaps I really do need to step back from the obsession of checking in here. Maybe I should start taking baths in the evenings instead of turning the laptop on (but I don't want to, I like it here!!!). I just get the feeling that this isn't something I can change all that much about me because it's how I am (the other women in my family, my mum and my sister are not like me, everybody says I have my dad's attitude!). I feel like I can only possibly have another boy - but perhaps that's a good thing to feel that way lol!

    Atomic, are you talking only about testosterone in the female? How important are male testosterone levels do you think?
    a) I was worried that people might find it depressing but at the same time, forewarned is forearmed. Don't get discouraged (and certainly don't get in trouble at work!!) just change the things you can change and walk away from the rest - and that is a good exercise in lowering T as well.

    b) One of the most obsessed, research-oriented swayers I know (HI babydust), who I was kinda convinced would have a boy due to T levels, took a long break before swaying and did indeed get a girl. She did all the research and the obsessing and then before her sway she relaxed.

    I promise that even the hardest-charging lipstick-wearing pit bulls amongst us can have both boys and girls. It's just that overall, if you're high T you will have more boys than girls, and swaying is all about optimizing our chances for THIS attempt...none of us want to "Duggar it out".

    c)They're moderately important, but I think they're important primarily in terms of sperm count (so a guy with High T and low sperm count, like bodybuilders who take a lot of supps which raise T and lower sperm count, have a lot of girls) and that they can be trumped by the woman. On IG we had noticed a phenomenon where very macho manly males married to kinda submissive females (again no offense meant, general observation) had a lot of girls and artsy, peaceful guys married to tough chicks had a lot of boys.
    !!! Questions?? Check out the NEW and improved Complete Index !!!

    LOOKING FOR YOUR SWAY PLAN? Have you checked the coaching forum? It will be posted in the same place your questionnaire is! https://www.genderdreaming.com/forum/completed-questionnaires-and-private-coaching-access/

    LE Diet Ideas Threads: https://www.genderdreaming.com/forum/trying-to-conceive-a-girl/54174-brand-sparkly-pink-new-diet-thread-girl-sways.html and here:https://www.genderdreaming.com/forum/trying-to-conceive-a-girl/54926-le-diet-thread.html?highlight=le+diet+meal+ideas

    LE Diet PCOS idea thread here: https://www.genderdreaming.com/forum/trying-to-conceive-a-girl/47264-le-diet-pcos.html

    PLEASE STOP SENDING ME SWAYING QUESTIONS VIA PRIVATE MESSAGE. Post swaying questions in the forums ONLY.

  7. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Out of the Blue View Post
    THANK YOU!!! I think this is the biggest obstacle I'm tackling in my sway. Lately, I've been trying to modify things in my life to help with the sway. For example, I sometimes play an annoyingly addictive game on my iPad (Fruit Ninja ) I can feel my competitive side come out. I have since de-installed it and any other games like that as they are not doing me any favors, time-wise or T-wise. I am thinking of starting yoga again as it seems like it really relaxes me but would it increase my T b/c it builds muscle? Are there any particular activities you could think of that would be up a pink swayer's alley? Should I be watching "chic-flicks" instead of CSI, lol?

    This post came at a perfect time, Atomic!
    That is a great idea to give up the video games!

    You know, you may have a good point about CSI vs. chick flicks! It sounds crazy but I do feel a lot more in touch with my feminine side when watching Lifetime as opposed to Mythbusters (although Kerri did have a girl!!!)

    Yoga is a dicey one because while yoga does relax you, it's also great for fertility and may counteract the lower fertility = girls idea.

    I would find activities that don't require you to accomplish any goals at all whatsoever. Even peaceful activities like needlepoint are kinda goal oriented. I like the bath idea, or the sitting outside with the kids idea, listening to music, getting backrubs, reading (as long as it's trashy novels and not on anyone's "books you must read before death" list!!
    !!! Questions?? Check out the NEW and improved Complete Index !!!

    LOOKING FOR YOUR SWAY PLAN? Have you checked the coaching forum? It will be posted in the same place your questionnaire is! https://www.genderdreaming.com/forum/completed-questionnaires-and-private-coaching-access/

    LE Diet Ideas Threads: https://www.genderdreaming.com/forum/trying-to-conceive-a-girl/54174-brand-sparkly-pink-new-diet-thread-girl-sways.html and here:https://www.genderdreaming.com/forum/trying-to-conceive-a-girl/54926-le-diet-thread.html?highlight=le+diet+meal+ideas

    LE Diet PCOS idea thread here: https://www.genderdreaming.com/forum/trying-to-conceive-a-girl/47264-le-diet-pcos.html

    PLEASE STOP SENDING ME SWAYING QUESTIONS VIA PRIVATE MESSAGE. Post swaying questions in the forums ONLY.

  8. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by rainbowflower View Post
    hmm so perhaps women with thyroid problems might not be able to do much to prevent their body swaying on it's own... regardless of how few onions or how much fat they eat, although that does assume that hormone levels are a key swaying factor

    I do think there's a difference between stressing and obsessing, though. I don't think obsessing necessarily sways, but I do think stressing does!
    There are actually several diseases that do seem to sway blue by raising testosterone (I need to do an essay on this) but by no means is all hope lost. Remember that it's just a general tendency to conceive more boys than girls, and if you had 10 kids, some of them would still be girls. But who wants to have 10 kids just to get 2 or three girls?

    You're 100% totally right in that in some ways, we do what we can do to sway but our bodies have the final word. For some of us, we may have to get so strict on diet that we approach starvation for our body to reduce T levels.

    My thinking is, at least we can TRY to reduce demand and maybe that will help make the diet more effective than it would be by itself.
    !!! Questions?? Check out the NEW and improved Complete Index !!!

    LOOKING FOR YOUR SWAY PLAN? Have you checked the coaching forum? It will be posted in the same place your questionnaire is! https://www.genderdreaming.com/forum/completed-questionnaires-and-private-coaching-access/

    LE Diet Ideas Threads: https://www.genderdreaming.com/forum/trying-to-conceive-a-girl/54174-brand-sparkly-pink-new-diet-thread-girl-sways.html and here:https://www.genderdreaming.com/forum/trying-to-conceive-a-girl/54926-le-diet-thread.html?highlight=le+diet+meal+ideas

    LE Diet PCOS idea thread here: https://www.genderdreaming.com/forum/trying-to-conceive-a-girl/47264-le-diet-pcos.html

    PLEASE STOP SENDING ME SWAYING QUESTIONS VIA PRIVATE MESSAGE. Post swaying questions in the forums ONLY.

  9. #8
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    Thanks Atomic and whilst I find the facts somewhat depressing I'm also grateful to know about them and to have the chance to do something about them! I'm definitely going to work on chilling out In fact, I'm far more laid back since I had children than I was before and I'm sure I've read that testosterone decreases the more children you have (or maybe it's just the older you get!) - in my case probably something to do with accepting that I can't control everything in my life, namely the 3 little beasties who live with me

    I have actually been wondering about delaying my sway yet another month (it was going to be July, then August and possibly now September). I know it then becomes a 'boy' time of year but I want to make sure I've lost enough weight. I think I need to lose 40lb in total to ensure I'm at my lowest pre-conception weight ever and I lost 16.5lb in my first 4 weeks on the low-everything diet so it's possible I'll be there for August but if not September is good too - and perhaps even better if it puts some distance between the obsessiveness and conception (although it's a stressful time of year at work which isn't great)! Is the weight aspect really key do you think? I started taking Saw Palmetto this cycle and was planning on taking it for the full 6 weeks before our attempt in August - if we do delay should I take Saw Palmetto all the way through (so 10 weeks solid) or should I have a break?

    So is there a direct correlation between testosterone and sperm count in men? I think DH is going to give licorice root a try as he's such a stud (ha ha!) - but if that works a little too well then the regular BDing should do the lowering of sperm count which might exist in somebody with lower T levels? I'm sure I also read somewhere that higher paternal age (rather than maternal age) is what produces more girls. Is that right and is that a connection to lower sperm count again?
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    I don't know about your testosterone but I wanted to say I think your English is fantastic!! Your plan looks good too. Have my blue dust and testosterone too!!!!

  11. #10
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    swish thanks! You can get all the pink dust from me oh Lord for sure you need a pick up truck for it. lol

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