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Thread: No DNA detected

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    No DNA detected

    Why does this happen with PGD? Day 3 and day 5 we see it.
    Mom to

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    Yes very curious.
    We had 2 day 5 biopsy with no DNA detected.
    Is it worth unfreezing and rebiopsying and freezing again? Is this harmful for the embryo?
    The two are expanded blasts frozen on day 5.
    17 12 9 3 HT

    6 Cycles and 2 FET in all to FINALLY have my
    May 2015- Did another fresh cycle to get a sister for my DD
    that ended with no normals:

    Thank you Dr.P

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by TRL View Post
    Yes very curious.
    We had 2 day 5 biopsy with no DNA detected.
    Is it worth unfreezing and rebiopsying and freezing again? Is this harmful for the embryo?
    The two are expanded blasts frozen on day 5.
    No DNA detected can be due to poor sample quality so that DNA was not prepared properly and degraded, or a cell missing a nucleus was selected (so no DNA) or the genetic testing lab made a mistake in processing the sample. I doubt that repeated freezing and thawing and biopsy is beneficial (!) but embryos are surprisingly hardy and there are published reports of pregnancies after repeated freezing, but the cases I am aware of had to do with an earlier stage freeze or thaw, followed by some days of culture (recovery) and then re-freeze. Not sure if repeated freezing is more problematic on day 5 embryos which really are near the end of culture and need to be transferred back without much chance for a recovery culture period. Day 5 embryos might go to day 6 of culture but must be transferred or frozen then. Good Luck! Carole

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    Thanks Carole!
    17 12 9 3 HT

    6 Cycles and 2 FET in all to FINALLY have my
    May 2015- Did another fresh cycle to get a sister for my DD
    that ended with no normals:

    Thank you Dr.P

  5. #5
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    If an embryo continues to grow, is it likely a test or lab issue? Do some cells not contain a nucleus and the embryo can still be healthy? What are the odds if the embryo is still growing on day 5 that the cell contained no nucleus on day 3?

    Finally, with a day 5 biopsy where they get multiple cells, would no DNA detected be due to the test at that point if the embryo was a viable blast?
    Mom to

    and my IVF/PGD

    It's better to look back on life and say: "I can't believe I did that" than to look back and say "I wish I did that".

    New to IVF/PGD for Family Balancing? Read this- Understanding IVF/PGD- a HT Guide for those New to the IVF/PGD Process

    Need a Natural Swaying Plan? Naturally sway for a boy or a girl- Personalized Swaying Plans

    Become a Dream Member to access the private forums

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    would love to know the answers to these questions....not much info out there.
    8/2013

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by nuthinbutpink View Post
    If an embryo continues to grow, is it likely a test or lab issue?

    Are you referring to a negative DNA result? See below.


    Do some cells not contain a nucleus and the embryo can still be healthy?

    Yes, the cells without the nucleus will die but usually there are enough other cells in the tissue or if it is before differentiation, cells that can take it's place. If more than, say 25% of the cells are dead or dying, that obviously is a bigger problem. Usually 1-2 cells are removed for testing from an 8 cell, and between 4-10 from a blastocyst stage embryo (a group of cells is pulled from the trophectoderm). In either case, the rest of the embryo should happily go forward without these cells.


    What are the odds if the embryo is still growing on day 5 that the cell contained no nucleus on day 3? Remember, the cell taken via biopsy for testing (the one removed on day 3) no longer has anything to do with the embryo. It's just bad luck that the cell for testing had no nucleus (sometimes difficult to see at biopsy). The majority of the cells remaining in the embryo need to have nuclei or they can't go forward.

    Finally, with a day 5 biopsy where they get multiple cells, would no DNA detected be due to the test at that point if the embryo was a viable blast?
    It would be less likely that ALL the test cells were without nucleus. More likely, the DNA got degraded in one of the technical steps or shipping.



  8. #8
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    See answers below.

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    Carole,

    I was curious, is it odd that our euploid embryos show up as no DNA detected?

    We have had 3 normal embryos (2 from cycle 1 and 1 from cycle 2) and 1 from cycle 1 and 1 from cycle 2 were no DNA detected. When, they rebiopsied these were both normal healthy xy embryos. They were both hatching blasts.

    I'm trying go figure out why this is occurring with a hatching blast both times.

    Thanks!
    DW (33), DH (35) to ODS (11) and YDS (6) and (2016). Hoped to add a little in 2014/2015, but it appears it is going to take way longer than expected.

    Cycle 1 - May 2013 - HRC - retrieval - Feb 2014 FET Planned Transfer - early blast resulted in a chemical (Chemical #1).
    Cycle 2 - May 2014 - HRC - No Normal XX embryos - No Transfer
    Cycle 3 - October 2014 - HRC - Retrieval and Unplanned FET in December 2014 - Normal XX resulted in another chemical (Chemical #2).

    January 2015 Immune Testing with Dr Braverman - He suspects mild endometriosis is my issue and wants me to have a lap.
    April 2015 lap surgery scheduled with renowned endometriosis surgeon. Stage 2 endometriosis found and excised!

    FET #3 - June 2015 - HRC - On Dr Braverman Immune Treatment (Lovenox, Prednisone, Intralipids, and Femara) My last xx embryo didn't survive the thaw (transferred backup donor embryo) - Chemical #3

    June 2015 - Sign up with adoption agencies as current plan (IVF does not seem to work for me).

    July 2015 - Receive 2 beautiful xx donor embryos! Decided to hire a proven surrogate to transfer to so I can end my quest for baby girl.

    September 2015 - First Natural Attempt without protection in 6 years = BFP 7dpo Beta 13 dpo 221, Beta 15 dpo 653, Seen at 6 and 8 Weeks! Panorama Test reveals bubs is another so transfer with surrogate/adoption is still on! Ask Braverman why this is happening and now he says we must have "gender dreamer issue" and not immune issues?!

    Received calls about baby girls for Adoption in November 2015, May 2016, and August 2016 - All had to turn down because of planned surrogacy transfers.

    January 2016 - FET #1 with proven surrogate - BFP 4dpt, Beta 12dpt 601, Beta 14 dpt 1,342, Beta 18dpt 734... CHEMICAL #4

    May 2016 - Baby Boy arrives healthy at 39 weeks (planned c section) - 8.5 lbs! I love love love this baby boy. He is such a blessing and a rainbow to me!

    July 2016 - FET #2 with proven surrogate and last donor embryo - BFP 3.5dpt! Beta 11dpt 374, Beta 13dpt 828, Beta 15dpt 1,689, Beta 18dpt 4,925! Seen at 6 weeks, 8 weeks, 10 weeks, and 12 weeks. Went for Gender Scan at 16 weeks and it shows baby passed away at 15 weeks.

    I JUST DON'T GET IT. HOW DOES THIS HAPPEN?? SO SAD.

    Moving onto Adoption - I need to believe in a Real Live Baby and not a theory of a baby!

    UPDATE!! We have our new daughter through adoption March 2017!! We are in love and our family is complete!!

  10. #10
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    These were day 5 HB.
    DW (33), DH (35) to ODS (11) and YDS (6) and (2016). Hoped to add a little in 2014/2015, but it appears it is going to take way longer than expected.

    Cycle 1 - May 2013 - HRC - retrieval - Feb 2014 FET Planned Transfer - early blast resulted in a chemical (Chemical #1).
    Cycle 2 - May 2014 - HRC - No Normal XX embryos - No Transfer
    Cycle 3 - October 2014 - HRC - Retrieval and Unplanned FET in December 2014 - Normal XX resulted in another chemical (Chemical #2).

    January 2015 Immune Testing with Dr Braverman - He suspects mild endometriosis is my issue and wants me to have a lap.
    April 2015 lap surgery scheduled with renowned endometriosis surgeon. Stage 2 endometriosis found and excised!

    FET #3 - June 2015 - HRC - On Dr Braverman Immune Treatment (Lovenox, Prednisone, Intralipids, and Femara) My last xx embryo didn't survive the thaw (transferred backup donor embryo) - Chemical #3

    June 2015 - Sign up with adoption agencies as current plan (IVF does not seem to work for me).

    July 2015 - Receive 2 beautiful xx donor embryos! Decided to hire a proven surrogate to transfer to so I can end my quest for baby girl.

    September 2015 - First Natural Attempt without protection in 6 years = BFP 7dpo Beta 13 dpo 221, Beta 15 dpo 653, Seen at 6 and 8 Weeks! Panorama Test reveals bubs is another so transfer with surrogate/adoption is still on! Ask Braverman why this is happening and now he says we must have "gender dreamer issue" and not immune issues?!

    Received calls about baby girls for Adoption in November 2015, May 2016, and August 2016 - All had to turn down because of planned surrogacy transfers.

    January 2016 - FET #1 with proven surrogate - BFP 4dpt, Beta 12dpt 601, Beta 14 dpt 1,342, Beta 18dpt 734... CHEMICAL #4

    May 2016 - Baby Boy arrives healthy at 39 weeks (planned c section) - 8.5 lbs! I love love love this baby boy. He is such a blessing and a rainbow to me!

    July 2016 - FET #2 with proven surrogate and last donor embryo - BFP 3.5dpt! Beta 11dpt 374, Beta 13dpt 828, Beta 15dpt 1,689, Beta 18dpt 4,925! Seen at 6 weeks, 8 weeks, 10 weeks, and 12 weeks. Went for Gender Scan at 16 weeks and it shows baby passed away at 15 weeks.

    I JUST DON'T GET IT. HOW DOES THIS HAPPEN?? SO SAD.

    Moving onto Adoption - I need to believe in a Real Live Baby and not a theory of a baby!

    UPDATE!! We have our new daughter through adoption March 2017!! We are in love and our family is complete!!

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