Hello there ... 40 year old, two boys, Vasectomy Reversal ahead of us.

[bigbump]

I totally agree Atomic. My Hb and I had this exact conversation. He was all 'one of us has to give' and I said 'would it really be so bad to have another?' Yes, two of our kids would have to share a room, yes we would perhaps need a bigger car, but so what?? These things aren't important. What I'm giving up the chance of is a huge sacrifice in my eyes.

Having said that I am not a woman who always envisioned a large family, so I have shifted the goal posts on him, but that's my prerogative. As it is yours sweetplum. No one has a crystal ball and you didn't realise you would feel this way. Neither did I.



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[atomic sagebrush]

I agree totally that is your prerogative to change your mind. They shift the goalposts on us all the time - want to go back to school, change jobs, move...my husband chose to work 365 days a year for 7 years straight one decade and then the next decade, did not have a job for 2 years - neither of which was my choice or that I EVER saw coming before it happened, and both of which definitely interfered with my plans for my life and family. He had also agreed to 5-6 kids before we ever got married and then changed his mind on that as well. I know I seem kind of "foaming at the mouth" on this topic sometimes but it's only because I feel like just about every other message out there in the media and society as a whole is "Woman should sacrifice everything for man's happiness and allow him to pursue his every bucket-listed whim in order for him to feel fulfilled in life, and if he dumps her, it was her fault because she got fat and didn't put out enough". I don't think it's too much to demand some level of reciprocity especially given the biological reality that for us, this decision is forever.

It was only because I was finally able to see past the cultural brainwashing that I was able to allow myself to be selfish and insist upon my wishes, that I have a daughter and my 2 younger sons as well. I had to bend and even break some rules that had been very deeply ingrained upon me, to get the family that I wanted and so I do encourage you guys not to give up without a fight if it is something that is highly important to you to pursue.

[trifecta]

Just a few thoughts: I agree about the cultural bias against women and the unfairness of men monopolizing women's childbearing years only to easily start families with younger women later but I don't think the desire to have a child is in itself a good enough reason to do it.

The worst case scenario isn't the mother not realizing her dream of having more kids. The worst-case scenario is a child being born into a family that is overextended, unstable, or unhealthy.

I think there are all kinds of healthy, happy families, including families with single mothers or tons of kids or other scenarios society tells us are not ideal, but whatever situation you bring a child into needs to be approached with clear eyes. I think our first question should always be what kind of mother/family/situation we would want to have lived with a child.

That said, Sweetplum's husband has said he's willing. I would take it at face value. It's normal for partners to have differing levels of enthusiasm. I guess I would say that if you generally agree but just aren't in precise harmony about it you shouldn't feel bad about being the one to make the decision.

[Sweetplum]

Hi. Really enjoy reading the thoughts and insights right now.

My situation is actually a bit of the opposite in terms of cultural biases. I tend to be the more 'monopolizing' one in the relationship if one of us would be characterized this way.

99% of the time, however, we are equal.

My husband and I are both Architects, we make mostly the same salary (based on bonuses and how our small firms do each year), we both serve on boards in our community and we both respect one another in terms goals, dreams and hopes for the future. I am older however (4 years) and have had more life experiences through travel and my education so often my husband's career defers to mine as I am an Associate in my firm and my husband is not. My husband works very hard and is doing really innovative work - which he doesn't get paid for but he enjoys, he's also new at this position so he has to 'pay his dues', I don't really - my position is pretty stable and I can ask for pretty much anything I want (I took 9 months off with both boys and I would do the same with another baby)....and now I only work 4 days a week for 6 hours a day and get paid well, I've worked really really really hard in my past (20s and 30s) so now I'm reaping the benefits of waiting and working for two decades.

Anyway - this dynamic kinda complicates things a bit since I know my husband feels that we often defer to my wishes in the relationship since I can be the more powerful one in many ways.

Another factor that comes into play is my family. My dad is successful and my parents are really generous so they give us a lot and loan us $ at low rates for building our lives. I think my husband feels he owes my dad for all that he does for us, so sometimes he gives into every single wish of mine in order to 'keep me happy' and thus my dad pleased. I don't like him to give in to me too much but he is very accommodating in general - his personality is just this way. He's moderate. Thankfully I'm aware of this and I try not to take advantage of my husband's willingness to do anything for me or lean on my parents more than they offer...but all this creates a dynamic that allows me to always "get what i want". It's always been like this for me. I'm kinda spoiled, and it has caused issues in my life, I'm trying to learn how to 'not always get what I want' I guess.....

With a third child I'm so realistic and hesitant because i'm not sure if what i want is good for our current family. A third child would be loved, nurtured, well taken care of and adored for his/her whole life, I just don't know if my body can produce a healthy child at this point and if I should continue to always get everything i want in life.

SP.

PS - Our current plan is still the same - he is scheduled for the VR on October 21st. My husband finishes up a huge deadline in early October, my eldest son is beginning Kindergarten at a French Immersion school in early September and we are planning on remodeling our home significantly - so the next few months are busy. We plan to see how we handle the first few months of my son's transition while we are all busy with work and home remodel - if it goes well and both sons are happy and doing well and relationship between DH and I is strong and loving we will proceed. If any of us are struggling or overwhelmed we will re-evaluate.

[trifecta]

No couple is totally in sync at all times, but from your description it seems like you have a true partnership and you both consider each other's feelings.

(Above, I was just responding to the general discussion of whether women should TTC in spite of an unwilling partner. I've known at least three couples who went ahead with their plans to have more kids in spite of truly vicious, unhealthy fighting and it always struck me as a horrible decision.)

One other thing you might want to consider is that if he goes through with the reversal he might then really want to go ahead with TTC to make it worthwhile.

[atomic sagebrush]

There are certainly gals who ride the baby train too long but I think in a convo of what is pretty clearly well off women contemplating going from 2 to 3 that's not what we're dealing with here. Please view my statements thru that lens.

I think let's all be careful with tossing around worst case scenarios. I'm sure there are many of us who experience judgement from others based on things that may to outsiders look chaotic, unstable, unhealthy, etc. Sometimes things get better. Some of us are just emotional Mediterranean types that fight and make up and are loud and emotional. Sometimes, things are beautiful, calm, and peaceful to outsiders and everything is a disaster inside (a cold, quiet, unhealthy disaster) or a sudden decision out of the blue turns everything upside down.

I think that we're here to discuss growing our families and since I have an admittedly unique take on that I feel compelled to share a different angle, for whatever it is worth.

[Sweetplum]

Yes. Strangely the couples that seem so happy and perfect and well adjusted are always the ones that don't seem to make it. We try to be authentic which some times is messy and imperfect, and I like that in my friends too. Better not to care at all what others think since there will always be a huge group that don't see life the same way and will judge.

On another note, is drinking Coke Zero (aspartame) going to totally ruin my girl sway?
I can give up for a few weeks but then I cave....
I will be strict and cut out if it's important but if not, I'd rather not freak out over it.
How many is too many per day if it's OK....

[trifecta]

I don't know any perfect families (you know the saying "The only normal people are the ones you don't know very well") but bringing up a child together is a big undertaking--it's good that you and your husband like as well as love each other and you respect each other's opinions.

If anything I think Diet Coke would help because it's so unhealthy.

[essnce629]

It sounds like you have a great relationship and DH and if I was in your situation I would 100% go for it and not look back. A reversal doesn't guarantee a baby, but you'll never know if you don't try and I would personally regret not trying.

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[Sweetplum]

Thank you.

I'm struggling with the sway to be totally honest. We are still moving forward with our plans and husband jokes a bit about it now which means we are turning the corner from serious to just a fact of life. But the sway is kinda hard for me....

I struggle to 'fast' for long periods of time and really like breakfast.

I can absolutely not fit in 60 min of exercise everyday let alone 4-5 days a week. I'm just sitting down at my computer at 10.30pm after running around non stop at work, kids stuff and evening events. I'd have to give up time at work, with my children or with my other commitments to fit in exercise and there is no way I can wake up an hour early to do it as I'm really tired as it is. I feel like I'm already stretched too thin to fit this in. I'm not a 'workout' person anyway, i'm fit but I never go to the gym, just walks around the block and mostly chasing after boys.

I like 'calorie dense' healthy foods like nuts, cerals, avocados, etc. I don't eat tons of them, but I like them....

I don't like feeling deprived. I'm so busy and tired a lot of the time that eating well and regularly keeps me mentally, emotionally and physically fit...I feel off on this diet. I basically hate any sort of diet or plan for my eating and drinking....I don't like strict routines at all.

Maybe I'm doing it wrong?

Being veggie is easy for me though, I'm not a huge meat eater so I like this part of the sway.

I guess for the most part I'm starting to wonder if I care enough to do the sway - I'm feeling lazy. I want a baby, would love a girl but excited about a boy too, but not sure if I'm dedicated enough to plan all this stuff out and follow through with it now, during TTC and until we possibly get pregnant. Maybe it's my growing indifference towards gender and excitement about another child that is making me lazy.

Oh well.