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  1. #1
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    4 miscarriages - should I stop swaying?

    Hi atomic (and everyone), I haven't been on here in a while so apologies if i've posted in the wrong place. I had paid for a personalised plan but it's run out now.

    So i've been attempting to sway (and conceive) on and off for about 2 years. I've had 4 miscarriages and we're just about to try for the final time (we've agreed we'll give up trying if this time doesn't work). I've had some investigations and it's looking like it's 'diminished ovarian reserve', so basically i'm running out of eggs and the ones that are left are poor quality. I'm 38 but I have a history of eating disorders which has probably contributed to it.

    So my questions are - I know that a pink gender sway is about gently reducing fertility, is it possible this is contributing to the miscarriages? In theory I should be doing everything I can to improve my fertility, but i'm reluctant to do anything that will sway blue. Also, do you know if diminished ovarian reserve sways pink in itself? I know that older mothers are more likely to have girls so I didn't know if that was the reason why. Thanks in advance and I hope you're all ok in this crazy situation we find ourselves in!

  2. #2
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    People can get pregnant with diminished ovarian reserve though. That's not a dealbreaker. DOR just means you're making fewer eggs, and fewer GOOD eggs, but there can still be good ones "sneaking" through. We may make only 1-2-3 of them a year, but we just need Goldie the Golden Egg to show up.

    Can you give me more info about why exactly you think you have DOR and what tests they did?? A lot of times people are told things by their doctors that are really very misleading so we need to get to the bottom of that and be sure you even DO have DOR and this isn't an exaggeration you're being told to explain why the doctor doesn't know why you've had losses, if that makes sense. Too often docs just throw up their hands and tell people "well it must be that you're too old" when they know nothing of the sort.

    Can you please tell me exactly what you were doing for swaying?? (I think you already told me this, so feel free to give me a link if it's all in another thread already) Most of what we are doing for swaying reduces fertility only by making it slightly harder for sperm to meet egg - and that is NOT something that causes miscarriage. DOR is caused by genetic stuff and not anything we do for swaying.
    But it's always possible that something has gotten into the mix that may not be ideal that we can tweak. Being on a very high carb diet for a long time, for example, could possibly make your egg quality a bit worse and we have ways to correct for that and give you both a diet that will sway strongly pink, but at the same time be benefitical for your egg quality.

    We truthfully don't know if DOR helps a pink sway or if it's something else totally that may sway pink for older couples.
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  3. #3
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    Hi atomic,

    I posted another thread elsewhere then realised I hadn't replied to this one, I'm sorry about that. It was because my husband had decided he didn't want to try again so we stopped. I didn't look at the forum as I was too sad about it. Here is my post from the other thread which I have copied and pasted below, plus I'll answer your questions from before.

    Also, I realised I said I had 4 miscarriages before, it was because I had included a chemical pregnancy (i'm never sure if that classes as miscarriage or not). Thanks for your reply about diminished ovarian reserve, it was helpful. My investigations have been on the NHS, so it's all been a bit rushed and not much has been communicated to me other than that it's possibly diminished ovarian reserve because it doesn't seem to be anything else causing them. So you might be right that it could be a kind of catch-all phrase the doctors use.

    I followed the plan you gave me for the first and second miscarriage, then I tried not to think about it too much and just tried to stick to some basic rules which (if I remember right) were - vegetarian, avoid refined sugar, coffee, aspartame, diet (although I kept falling off the wagon), and the same supplements i've mentioned below. This was the post from the other thread I started.

    Basically we've been TTC for years and have tried to sway each time (pink), we had 3 miscarriages (4 including chemical pregnancy) and my husband decided he didn't want to try anymore. I've finally managed to convince him to have one last try, we've agreed end of November for various reasons (and it's pretty much a dead cert as I always fall every time we try, just struggle to hang onto them). I had a custom plan before and just wanted to check nothing has changed in the time i've been away. So this is my plan before now and end of November below. I realise that doesn't give me long (8 weeks) but if I leave it till after Christmas when i'll be eating more, presumably i'll be upping my fertility which could sway blue. Also, i'm 38, 39 in March so I think my age sways slightly pink. So the plan is....

    - a strictish vegan, kind of keto diet. No sugar and limited carbs. The reason I'm doing this is because it's the only way I lose weight, if I just reduce calories, or slightly lower fat/protein etc. I never lose weight as my metabolism is rubbish. Same with dairy, I don't lose weight if I eat dairy. I don't think i'll fall off the wagon as I only need to manage till end of November. So diet will be mainly veg, beans, a few nuts etc. low fat, low protein, low carbs, no sugar. My aim is to lose a stone or two by then (I have a lot of excess weight to lose so this isn't a problem). Yes it's strict but I think that strict is only risky if there's a chance you will fall off the wagon, binge and thereby increase fertility is that right? Is strict ok as long as you stick to it?

    - no breakfast, 2 meals a day, try not to snack

    - lots of coffee

    - aspartame (diet coke etc.)

    - exercise over 60 minutes, 4 - 7 times a week. Is fast walking ok?

    - fibre with each meal

    - CoQ10 Ubiquinol and extra folate but no other supplements

    - I might start to take half a baby aspirin in the run up to TTC to try to prevent miscarriage but not sure how that sways? A Dr has told me to do this, they said there is no harm but it could help prevent miscarriage so might as well try it.

    - One attempt once I got a positive O test

    - husband will take OLE a couple of weeks before we try then wean off.

    - I have Clomid but my husband has said he doesn't want me to take it because he's petrified of twins. I'm guessing there is no way of mitigating the increase chance of twins? Also, if I took it in October but didn't try, then didn't take it in November when we TTC would I have the benefit of the sway of the hormones without the risk of twins?

    - alcohol, a little occasionally but don't want to damage my weight loss or affect egg quality.

    Ok I think that's it - is there anything you would add or take away from this list? Atomic I realise that after 3 (4 with chemical) miscarriages you might want to tell me not to do anything to affect my fertility in case it happens again, but I would rather know that I had had a strong sway for my own peace of mind.

    Thank you in advance!

  4. #4
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    AGH I think I left your original question unanswered, so sorry I know you bumped it for me and then I think it got closed again without answering. I'll double check when I'm done here.

    As long as they've investigated and NOT found things like clotting factors or thyroid issues, that sort of thing, then that's all good. I agree with your assessment that they toss out "DOR" as a catchall when they don't know.

    I don't want you going vegetarian or vegan. That will be too carby. We are going to modify the LE Diet to be better for egg quality and that means we will include some meat and dairy. If you really find you just can't bring yourself to eat meat, at least please have full fat dairy (only full fat, no skim or part skim) and eggs. We want you on whole grains only, no white refined grains, and no sugar. I would have you start off on 1500 cals, 60 g protein and fat, and if you don't lose weight we'll up that to 65 g. If that doesn't work we will drop to 1200 calories but NO lower. you don't count the protein and fat in fruit and veg, and nothing in low carb veg, they're free and unlimited, no need to count them.

    In the past when you had trouble losing weight while having dairy, were you having skim dairy?? What was your diet like otherwise?

    Being too strict is risky in a number of ways. First of all - that metabolism issue?? Totally caused by crash dieting. Then, we need you to be able to get and stay pregnant, and you can't be starving yourself for that to happen. You can even end up delaying or stopping if you lose a bunch of weight really fast, it releases toxins stored in your fat that could be harmful to a developing pregnancy. So we don't want to come in and have you lose a massive amount super suddenly.

    Long story short, too strict isn't good no matter what so please take the limits of the diet seriously.

    Given your history of losses please keep coffee to 2 a day and alcohol to 1

    coq10 and folate (no folic acid, use folate only pls) Take the extra folate thru the entire first tri and then gradually wean off by spacing doses till down to one per week, then drop

    The doctor is wrong about baby aspirin. if you don't have a clotting disorder (and you should have been tested for that) you shouldn't take aspirin. It may even increase chances of a miscarriage and carries side effects for you personally.

    I would suggest myoinositol 2000 mg daily from AF-O and 1000 or 2000 every other day from O-AF and then at BFP, wean off by spacing doses further and further out till down to one per week,t hen you can drop. This is good for both egg qualtiy and has gotten good results for your sway.

    I do not recommend taking Clomid in months you aren't going to try. Some say if you take Clomid from CD 5-9 instead you have lower chances of twins.

    I think I have everything covered, let me know if I missed anything!
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  5. #5
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    Hi Atomic, no problem on the delay with the reply, I can't even begin to imagine how much you have to juggle and I feel bad that I'm taking your time without paying again.

    I don't seem to have any thyroid issues but I think they only did one test related to clotting, which I think was for APS, but I do have a slightly elevated blood platelet count. The Drs said that there is no harm in taking low dose aspirin so it's better to be safe than sorry. I know what you mean though, it feels like taking something to thin my blood could cause other problems. But it was 3 Drs who have told me to take it so i'm torn about what to do.

    I thought that a vegetarian or vegan diet was the best thing for a pink sway? So are carbs not good for egg quality? I'm trying to be vegetarian but still stick to low glycemic foods to keep my blood sugar low/stable, hence why I use the keto sticks - if they're pink I know i'm keeping my blood sugar low enough to be burning fat instead. And do you mind me asking why the full fat dairy, is it about increasing the amount of fat and protein I take in? In the past I've sometimes had full fat dairy if i'm trying to do keto, other times i've had skim if i'm trying to cut back on calories, but it always seems to slow my weight loss, I don't know why.

    Thank you for the info on weight loss, I had no idea that toxins can be released and can do damage in early pregnancy. No problem on limiting coffee and alcohol. I'll also add myoinositol, will that definitely not affect my sway? I don't want to do anything that might sway blue.

    I'll look into taking Clomid CD 5-9 but will probably end up not using it, it's too risky.

    Can I check something? Right now based on your stats, would you say that the number one most effective thing to do for a pink sway is exercise?

    Thank you!

  6. #6
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    The doctors are wrong. There are risks and side effects with the aspirin:

    Risks outweigh the benefits for most people: https://www.webmd.com/drug-medicatio...igh-benefits#1 (since young women are already very unlikely to have cardiovascular events, they are absolutely included in the "most people" for whom the risks very much outweigh the benefits)

    Aspirin does not help most women to have a successful pregnancy: https://www.nih.gov/news-events/news...ih-study-finds and https://www.webmd.com/baby/news/2010...nt-miscarriage

    Aspirin may cause miscarriage: https://guardianlv.com/2013/07/aspir...s-miscarriage/ and subchorionic hematoma (one of the most common non-chromosomal causes of miscarriage) https://www.sciencedirect.com/scienc...15028216000443

    It is your choice, I just don't want you going unwarned as so many have before you.

    Sticking in the limits of the LE Diet is what is best. We tend to avoid or limit meat not because small amounts of meat sway strongly blue (though they do have some nutrients vegetarian foods don't) but because eating too much meat makes it harder to stick within the limits. Because meat has a lot of protein, but not many calories, people who insist on eating a lot of meat quickly go over on protein and have only eaten a few hundred calories. This ends up being a terrible starvation diet where people eat chicken and gummy worms and we are aiming at a HEALTHY diet.

    Carbs are terrible for egg quality. Or should I say TOO MANY carbs. If you were to eat 1500-1800 cals, 50-60 (or even up to 65) g protein and fat (not counting the pro and fat in fruit and veg as we don't count those) you will be getting a very good diet for your egg quality, for safe levels of weight loss, and for a pink sway. We have stellar results for pink on this kind of diet. The low GI foods are an ok compromise I suppose but I can't sign off on that type of diet either for conception or for swaying because I haven't seen many people do that, and I just have everyone stick with what has worked!

    Full fat dairy is a)much lower in carbs than skim b)something about the type of carbs in skim dairy is really terrible for egg quality and actually makes you GAIN weight and c) you need the type of fat that is in dairy foods to get and stay pregnant.

    As long as you're losing weight in a controlled manner rather than dropping 30 lbs in a month by starving yourself it is ok to lose weight. Slow weight loss, your liver can handle and remove those toxins. We just don't want you crash dieting right before conception for all the reasons I mentioned.

    Myoinositol has great results for pink. I like to see anyone in the group of people who can use it, to use it.

    There really is no one "most effective". Diet and exercise work together, so the exercise is more effective with the diet and vice versa. If there's any way to do some exercise, yes, I completely recommend it, and exercise has certainly been highly consistent, but I just don't want to quantify it that way...because if a person did exercise while eating a boy friendly diet and gaining weight, they could easily end up getting a boy!
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