VBAC after two c-sections?

[auroara78]

Greetings all,

I have a few questions/concerns. I have had two c-sections and I was kind of entertaining the idea of maybe trying a VBAC. I don't even know if my DR will allow it, but before I even ask him, I wanted to get a gist of if anyone else ever tried after 2 and what was the experience like?

Here are some of my conerns:

+ for having another C-Section:

*I know what to expect; my 2nd one was scheduled; 1st was an emergency but still went OK

*I tolerate the C-sections well and never had any issues with them, never felt overly sore and what not, felt fine actaully within two days and was back up and feet without any massive pain or problems

*My DH wants me to have another C-section because he is worried a vag birth will *change* things down there (I know, I can't believe I just typed that, but there it is)

+ for trying a vaginal birth

*I felt robbed from the experience with DS1. I contracted normally and everything was going good except I was so drugged up with epidural I felt NOTHING AT ALL. My OB claimed that my son was not progressing and was trying to go back up instead of coming down (the other problem was he kept trying to look up instead of keeping his head down and focused on getting through the birth canal.) I only pushed for an hour and a half, and because I could not FEEL anything I had no idea when to push except when they told me. I really feel had I been able to feel *something* I may have done better, but I don't know for a fact, just a gut feeling.

*I have always wanted to have that experience of actually giving birth, and feeling those emotions and actually being a PART of the experience instead of feeling REMOVED from the experience. It felt very sterile last time when they removed DS2 from my body and I heard his cry but didn't see him or hold him for another five minutes.

*It may be a lot cheaper. My insurance is on the 10% co pay thing, and I think a VBAC and a shorter hospital stay would cost a lot less, and we're not exaclty rolling in the dough at the moment.

So thoughts? suggestions? your own stories? how is a VBAC after a C-section? Beautiful? Not what its cracked up to be?

Thanks for any comments you could make!

[Mochagirl]

My VBAC was after only one c-section so the situation might be a little different, but I'm sooo glad I did it. I was in labour with my twins for 27 hours then had an emergency c-section because of failure to progress. Gee - think that might have had something to do with the fact that they gave me my epidural within minutes of inducing me so I spent my entire labour lying prone on a bed?? Anyway, like you I felt robbed of my birth experience. With ds3, we went completely natural - in a hospital, though, just in case something went wrong. The birth experience itself wasn't fun or very pretty, but I felt normal AS SOON as I pushed him out. I remember with my twins I couldn't even hold my babies in my arms after they took them out of me because I was hooked up to too many machines and numb. Yes, the recovery was still long and painful (I ended up needing a pretty substantial episiotomy and had TONS of stitches), but with no surgery or even epidural to recover from, I was home from the hospital 2 hours after birth!! I'm planning another VBAC with this little one.

[LolaInLove]

I am like Mocha, I only had 1 section and then a VBAC with #2, but I could not agree more with everything she said. With #1, she was sunny side up and I had back labor immediately, so they got me on my back with a strong epidural right away, and that was all she wrote. I was in a line of 3 women to have sections the next night, conveniently before my doc's dinner plans were to start. I also felt robbed of the experience, especially since I was running with a pretty natural-gal crowd and they all regaled me with stories of their beautiful homebirths and whatnot.

When I got pg with #2, I had the same conundrum- even though I hated my c-section and felt like hell, I was scared about all of the bad what-ifs. It didn't help that the practice I had chosen to go to as we had just moved to a new town was headed by a woman who flat out told me that it was likely my baby would die if I chose to try a vbac. I planned on just having another scheduled section until something in me snapped at 32wks and I switched to a midwife practice and they were all for it. I had the most awesome birth ever, and I feel like my experience was 10 million times better than with #1. I still watch the video and laugh sometimes because the second after she came out, I turned to my sister who was videoing by my head and said in a very calm and proud voice, "I did it." I was so proud of myself for having the courage to try at least, and was so overjoyed that I got to experience that kind of birth in my lifetime. I know a lot of women will not agree, but I think the two are as different as day and night.

That all being said, I think if you've had 2 of them, you will really want to listen to your doctor (and I'm hoping you have a good one who doesn't scare you like my first one) because you do want to do what is best for you and the baby. It might be that they think you might have your last son too recently or something and might worry about rupture. You can always TRY in a hospital setting like I did and if something goes awry, they whisk you away to the OR. I had them give me a hep-lock on my hand and all, just in case. My midwife said they can tell pretty quickly if you are rupturing, and of course, if anything is wrong with baby if you are on a monitor. I ended up getting an epidural at the 11th hour (I was 9cm and just exhausted and scared to death of the "ring of fire".....I also had a terribly unsupportive husband at the time and think I could have done it with someone like my current DH though), so I had a monitor on also. Aside from my kid taking a gigantic mec poo on her way out, it all was just perfect, even with the 9cm freak out and all.

It's really only a decision you can make, and should make with your doc since you've had 2, but I think if you are young and in good shape and there is no good reason to worry and baby looks good at delivery time, go for it!

I remember there was a sweet girl named Roonarpia who had a boy after 3 girls, and I can't remember if she had one or two, but I know she had a home birth after cesarean and it was awesome. You could try to pm her maybe.

Good luck!

[DoulaMama]

I'm going to respond a bit later....but just wanted to say...a VBAC after 1-3 sections carries the same risk. Your risk of rupture is very small. The only thing that concerns me is the fact your DS2 is quite young. 2 years between pregnancies is recommended but it's not completely necessary. I'm just putting a baby to bed...be back in a bit

[auroara78]

Thanks for the advice, so far ladies. I realize I gotta get my DR on board or see what he says. I'm gonna hit him up on it at the next appt depending on what we see on U/S, because his reasoning for DS2 being a C-section was the fact that he had a "big head" and he measured ahead by a week and 1/2 and they thought he'd be too big headed to come out of my birth canal.

So if this baby is smaller or the head is not so big, I think he'd be more inclinced to give me a chance.

[LolaInLove]

Thanks for the advice, so far ladies. I realize I gotta get my DR on board or see what he says. I'm gonna hit him up on it at the next appt depending on what we see on U/S, because his reasoning for DS2 being a C-section was the fact that he had a "big head" and he measured ahead by a week and 1/2 and they thought he'd be too big headed to come out of my birth canal.

So if this baby is smaller or the head is not so big, I think he'd be more inclinced to give me a chance.

See, this pisses me off, and I know DM will agree. Your body is designed to accommodate the baby during birth, even with big heads. I have known so many women who had absolutely huge babies with enormous heads, and your pelvis and cooch all open up for that. I am sure there are cases of super tiny women with super huge babies that got stuck and they needed the c-section, but if I were your doctor, I would have let you give birth a shot. GRRRRRRR!!!!!!

But at least it was not a terrible experience for you like it was for me.

I also agree with DM that the only concern would be the time between your 2 births. When I went for my VBAC, the midwife practice was ok with it because I was 29, in great shape, and it would be 2 years, 9 months between my births, enough time for the uterus and facia (however you spell that) to heal up. I don't think they like to see moms with less than 2 years between births try it, but DM will give you better insight on that. I haven't had a baby for over 7 years now, so I'm a little bit out of touch with the "rules" now!

I will also agree with her that the risk for rupture is small. Once I had my change of heart and decided I wanted to try a VBAC, I did a bunch of research and found that the stats for rupture were very low, and the incidence of the baby dying from the rupture were even lower. I can't remember now, but it was something like 1 in 10,000 rupture, and of those, 1 in 1,000 die, so those are pretty good odds in your favor. Totally correct me if I'm wrong, though, DM!!!!!

You'll make the right decision....the fact that you are investigating this and learning and gathering your info will get you in the right place. xxoo

[auroara78]

Thanks for the support Lola! I really think he just wanted it scheduled so my progressing labor wouldn't interfere with his plans. DS2 was due on a Saturday...no joke! The c-section was the Friday before he was due. There was def. something missing with his birth...though DS1 was also a C, I just felt a little better that I had a chance to *try*, you know what I mean?

And does everyone agree or think that maybe my lack of ANY feeling may have been the real reason I couldn't push DS1 out?

[LolaInLove]

No problem! I am kinda passionate about this subject because of my experience. I also have watched a few documentaries about birth in America and how the medical system is so about making childbirth this big medical emergency that needs a million interventions. The C-section rate in America has like tripled or something crazy in the last 10 years for the same reason you and I had them. Doctors not wanting to stick around all night or come in on their weekend off and also because they don't want to mess with what they think might be risky births because they don't want to get sued. It's such bs.

My gyno, who is just a few years older than me, has been my doctor and now a friend for about 8 years, and she had to drop obstetrics from her practice because of the ridiculous malpractice insurance costs. She also found that in our community, she had a lot of opposition from colleagues for her natural approach to birth. I met her when she was a younger doctor with that big practice that I mentioned above where the head doc told me the baby would probably die if I tried a VBAC....she was the only doc I saw on my rotations between all of them who said, you know, you could totally try a VBAC, there is no reason why not. When I left that practice at 32 weeks, I wrote a letter to that head doctor and addressed it to the whole practice. I didn't see my doctor for a long time, about 3 years, until I was looking for a new obgyn in town, and I saw that she had opened her own tiny practice in a small town about 45 minutes from the city where I live. I went and saw her and she told me that my letter changed the direction of her career. She left that big practice and went to work for the cool midwife practice that I actually had my baby with, only I was there before she came over. Then she started her own little gyno practice with a friend who had similar philosophies. She was so happy when I told her about my birth with #2 and how well it all went, and how happy I was with the entire experience. Anyway, she hates insurance companies and how the American medical system is so controlled by them, pharmaceutical companies, and how medicine has become big business in our country. I'm not sure if you live in the US, but our stories with our sections are SUPER typical. I hate how women are robbed of what I think is THE DEFINING EVENT that is unique to us as women, something that has been a sacred thing for millions of years, and been done without a stitch of medical intervention for millions of years. That being said, I am glad modern medicine is here to save many babies and mothers in childbirth who really need it, of course. But so many doctors in this country are not treating pregnant women like they are strong, capable creatures whose bodies were MADE for birthing children. It is just an assembly line of big bellies, in and out of the office.

OK, off my soapbox!!!!!

But to answer your last question, that could be the case. Having had 2 epidurals myself (and the last one actually being very helpful as I had already progressed to near birth naturally....it helped me relax and I think was a good decision for me at the time), I know how they totally numb you and incapacitate you, really. So many women have c-sections because they get epidurals at the first pang of labor, and then are there on their backs the whole time and nature does not take its course, and bam, you're in the OR. If I were to birth with one again, I would wait until the very last moment and really do the majority of the "work" in labor naturally so your body does what it should and gets that baby down there ready to go before you numb yourself. Of course, sometimes, the body does well with epidurals because the relaxing helps things along, which happened for me with #2 but not at all with #1. I couldn't do anything with #1 because she was all turned funny and barely came down at all (she had an epic conehead), and I only got to 7cm. Things just went so slowly because I had that epidural and was on my back the whole time, and then the docs called it because it had been 33 hours.

(Sorry for the longest post ever!!!) I hope this helps you, though!!! I really think that if your doc thinks you have had enough time to heal from your last baby, you should give it a try, but that is totally up to you and your DH.

Dang, DM, where are you? I know she will chime in on this, we've had lots of good threads about this stuff before!

[Hobbermittens]

I have only had vaginal births, so I can't compare, but I just wanted to tell you (for your DH) that your vajayjay will be just fine! I Was worried about mine after having 3 kids that sex would be like a hot dog in a wind tunnel, but DH swears it feels the same (I guess he could be lying, but he hasn't complained at all!). I do a lot of kegels, which is supposed to tighten things back up. Don't worry! If you want a VBAC, then you should go for it!

[DoulaMama]

LOL LOLA!! I'm here! I'm just getting very annoying cx's and it's hard to sit in the same spot for too long....

Ok...First off...I haven't read everything here so if I repeat anything, I'm really sorry....

I'm going to start with the one thing that would concern me....the short time between pregnancies. I have heard of MANY successful VBAC's after short recovery times from the last section, so it's obviously not a guaranteed thing when it comes to rupturing. You may have a slightly higher chance of rupture than if you'd waited a year or 2 between pregnancy 2 and 3. Your Dr. will NOT be supportive. I can pretty much guarantee that. BUT that doesn't matter one bit. It's up to you what you want to do. You are paying them for their services. If it's possible, I would find a midwife team(preferably not a hospital group as they are more medically minded like OB's) that would be supportive of your birth wishes. They are WAY more informed about VBAC because they see it way more than the average OB's. They are also more up to date on current stats. You also won't get the "big head scare" or "past due date" crap that you will with an OB.

In order to have a successful VBAC there are a few things that are important(IMO). First of all....a complete and total belief in yourself, your baby and your body. You have to change your mindset. Birthing vaginally is a normal bodily function. Almost every woman on the planet CAN birth vaginally when in a safe, peaceful setting, surrounded by people that believe in her and that allows her to relax, draw upon her inner strength and intuition. When you are put into a setting surrounded by strangers, beeping machines, constant questions, vaginal exams, needles, IV's, bright lights, etc....that does not help you at all. It's amazing our c-section rate isn't higher, IMO....

Second thing....eat as healthy as you can. Nutrition is the number one thing that can help with rupture, having a healthy birth and healthy baby. Lots of good oils, a good prenatal and some healthy herbs(great for minerals/vits that are hard to come by in our soils) and also making sure your iron levels are up.

Have a supportive team- find the right caregiver. I know of numerous ladies that have changed caregivers at 38 weeks because the "supportive" OB changed their minds (known as bait and switch...it happens often) and the woman was left with a caregiver that planned on sectioning her no matter what. Or they'll find stupid reasons for you to have a section...big baby, big head, overdue, thin uterus(this one really bothers me)...the list goes on....

Stay at home and labour as long as you can. The longer you can do this, the better off you'll be. Less time on monitors, no pitocin use(it should not be used on VBAC's at all IMO), more time in the comfort of your home....

If you can do it....do not get an epidural. Get a doula(you can find doula's for free (getting their training) or for much less than an experienced doula) so she'll be able to help you cope with your labour which results in 50% less epi use The reason for no epidural- it will slow down your progress...the slower the progress, the more likely you'll end up with another section. It also numbs everything so you cannot tell if you rupture. Rupturing is very painful so if it does happen you'll be able to tell right away. The monitors will not be able to tell until it starts to affect the baby...which could be minutes later...even half an hour later. By that point it's a crash section. I was witness to one of these. If she had felt the tearing occur, it would have been a lot less traumatic for her and baby. This birth was also a pit induction after 2 days of labour as well...not a good thing The other thing about drug use is that you cannot stand and use gravity etc. Sitting on the toilet is amazing at getting that baby down the canal but if you're in bed strapped to monitors and totally numb from the waist down, it will not help that baby to descend. Plus you have a higher chance of instrumental delivery/episiotomy as the baby takes longer to descend and most Dr's want that baby out NOW at the end. This equals lots of tearing and stitches which is not nice to recover from. I know that many women have success, but if this is something you REALLY want, you need to look at all options and decide what you're willing to do and not do.

I'm going to post this now and look back at the others responses....in case I missed something...

I think that if you are wanting this.....it is absolutely possible. It's an easier recovery(I think you'd be shocked at how much easier it is), a feeling of accomplishment, and restoration in the belief of your body Don't let others make you doubt yourself. It's YOU that has to live with your birth experiences for the rest of your life. You need to follow your heart and do what is right for YOU.

Oh and about the vagina/sex thing....Honey, my sex life has improved with each and every one of my births....my orgasms are better, my hubby feels ZERO difference and I would say that many women feel this way. He needs to stop saying those things to you. His thoughts on your sex life have ZERO place in the conversation when it comes to your wants for your birth experience. You will heal and sex will be just as good! JMNSHO xoxo