Timing and hormon question

We have been trying 0+12 for a couple of month and have not become pregnant. I am 38 and have been through three high tech cycles so I know I have poor quality eggs so I don't think 0+12 will work out for me.
This month we decided to do three day cut of, and hope that ovulation doesnt come early... I just wonder if anyone know where the spermes wait for the egg? Is it outside or inside the uterus? How importent is it to have a low PH outside of the uterus, I read on IG that one should use lime-tampon until ovulation but if the spermes are inside the uterus, does it make any differance?

And hormones; I have short luteal fase so I though of taking progesteron cream this month. On the progesteron cream it sais "do not take this if you take large amouth of B6 vit" and I do! I take about 120 mg/day. What do you think ladies?????

Atomic may have a different opinion but as I read about this, I found this bit and I tend to agree with it based on what we know/read about with the female reproductive tract.

"After ejaculation, sperm have to be able to swim through the cervix to reach the Fallopian Tube where fertilization of the egg occurs. The sperm that can fertilize the egg begin leaving the ejaculate within 1 min after deposition, and no sperm that get to the Fallopian Tube have ever been proven to do so after 30 min of ejaculation. The "cervical reservoir" of sperm is not an actual pool of fertilizing sperm.

Sperm have to get thru CM to get to the Fallopian tube where they are then stored for hours to days until the egg comes. However, the interactions of sperm and cervical mucus that allow this migration are often disrupted in fertility patients. It is thought that at least a third (if not more) of subfertile couples have some disruption of sperm-cervical mucus interactions that limit sperm transport to the tubes.

The importance of normal CM in natural reproduction is widely recognized. For most of a woman’s cycle the CM is a thick gel and hostile to sperm, with a low pH and a structure that stops sperm transport by the presence of closely spaced microfibers. During ovulation, however, the CM becomes more alkaline (higher pH), and the fibers align in parallel with an expanded distance between them. This allows the sperm to swim through the mucus. Normally, the volume of daily CM also increases 5 fold at ovulation. CM is a hydrogel of 90% water, and its primary function appears to be bathing sperm in a fluid medium to protect them during transport . The presence of sugar-proteins in the gel that hold the water is controlled by hormone changes at ovulation (especially the presence of estrogen). These sugars increase the mucus gel’s capacity to hold water, expand fiber spacing, & allow sperm migration. Taken together, these changes permit sperm to rapidly swim through the cervix and proceed to the Fallopian tube for fertilization. "

Also, what I have read before on the other site about the "cervix dipping down to collect semen" is now not the common belief amongst the fertility community. In fact, it is now believed that pure thrusting force is what drives the sperm up into the female reproductive tract which backs up what the above doctor spoke about. My guess is they hide out in the fallopian tubes and await the egg.

So, if you try O+ 12, you might just be missing the egg period if your timing is not percise. O+12 seems tough to conquer.

I am so glad you posted this question - I've said this before, I do not think o+12 for anyone over 35 is a good idea AT ALL. I think it makes it virtually impossible to get pregnant even under the best of circumstances (and swaying is NOT the best of circumstances). I'm not at all convinced that O+12 is any kind of magic bullet anyway (based on a single study involving 33 people) so I would just wave it goodbye with no regrets and do a cutoff instead.

Sperm swim up through the cervix to the Fallopian tubes and that's where they hang out and wait to fertilize the egg. Once the egg is fertilized, it migrates from the tube to the uterus and that's where it implants. As a general rule, unless fertilized, by the time the egg hits the uterus, it's dead. Eggs don't get fertilized in the uterus. Almost all the semen leaks from your vagina within 30 minutes after ejaculation and only about 10% of sperm remain behind. Far fewer than that ever even make it to the vicinity of the egg. Before the egg shows up, they hang out in the cervical crypts, which are little cavelike areas of your cervix and wait for the egg to signal them, at which point they swim up to the egg and fertilize it in the Fallopian tubes.

You're EXACTLY right, how can a lime tampon affect the pH all the way up not only in the uterus, but into the Fallopian tubes? Some suggest that it's a chemical process known as diffusion, where the lower pH actually works it's way gradually through your fluids and affects the pH that way. There's probably something to that, but at the same time your body is constantly producing way more alkaline fluids from every pore - the entire female reproductive tract is made of mucus membranes and is always secreting mucus and other fluids that are designed (depending on what part of your menstrual cycle it is) to either keep sperm out or keep them alive and allow them to reach the egg. The sperm probably even NEED at least some of this more alkaline fluid to survive and reach the egg. So I have always had a hard time buying the idea that you have to keep your pH "low" every second or else you shouldn't use a cutoff. As an illustration, imagine the idea of putting a lime tampon up your nose in an attempt to make the snot in your sinusus really acidic when you have a cold. When you're generating THAT MUCH mucus, as you do around ovulation or when your nose is runny, there's just no way that you can have a real, measurable effect up inside your body that way.

My personal opinion on the lime tampon and why it may work is, we KNOW beyond a shadow of a doubt that one thing that does sway pink is low sperm count. Less sperm available for whatever reason, seems to equal more girls conceived. I think what the lime tampon does is mainly kill off a LOT of the sperm in the cervical crypts, both X and Y, leaving less sperm on the scene. That may be desirable for a young couple and would def. sway pink, but for those of us who are older, that may reduce our chances of pregnancy just too far. Older women don't even have the same number of cervical crypts (only half of what we had at 20) and older men have weaker and shorter-lived sperm than younger men do...a lime tampon AND a three day cutoff may simply be too much to overcome.

What I would do is use a lime douche OR Rephresh OR a tiny bit of spermicide (and I mean TINY, 1/2 a dime) with the three day cutoff to kill off some sperm, with a jump and dump to eliminate as much semen as possible (the alkaline semen also helps keep more sperm alive, just like EWCM does) then add in antihistamines and baby aspirin to make the CM less welcoming when the egg does arrive. No lime tampon and I wouldn't even check my pH for sanity's sake. If your husband can do it, I would do frequent release to lower sperm count while maintaining sperm quality (abstinence does lower sperm count too but also lowers sperm quality and that may be too much for an older man's sperm to overcome, plus it may not be as safe in terms of healthy sperm).

If you do O early, it's ok. It's FAR from the end of the world on that. A two or even a 1 day cutoff with all the above things, I think is so little difference that I wouldn't even give it a moment's thought or concern.

Now - about the B6 and prog cream. I haven't read anything that made me think they were dangerous to use together (I've been looking for it as I'm sure you did as well.) I would strongly suspect that it was pretty much of a legal disclaimer, due to the fact that some MEN are using massive amounts of B6, way more than what you're using with progesterone cream to counteract some side effects of steroid abuse. That having been said, just because I couldn't find anything that said NOT to do it, doesn't mean that you should.

The caveat that I have seen about prog cream is that the OTC ones are not standardized and can vary drastically between brands and even between batches of cream from the same manufacturer. As I'm sure you already know, any variation in prog levels can bring a healthy pregnancy to an end and you must use the cream every day (praying that the levels of prog. are the same in every jar you use, if it takes you more than one jar) for at least the first trimester without fail. Personally, I would either go to my doctor, explain the situation, and try to get Prometrium which we know is standardized and see what he/she says about taking it with B6, or I would just stick with the B6 for another couple months and see if your body starts producing progesterone naturally.

If you do decide to try it, I hope you'll let us know how it goes and if you have any side effects.

Thank you so much for your answers NBP and atomic.

About the progesteron cream, I did not know about the fact that it could be different levels of progesteron in different jars!! I have been taking B6 for four ycles now, and have not seen a change in my LP. I will wait with the progesteron cream... I have a lot of progesteron pills from my high tech cycle left but I wont take it without asking a doctor about it.

And about the timing... my DH do frequent release, its the only way to lower his sperm count. He is 40 years but he have high sperm count, "extremly fine sperms" according to our IVF-doc, hehe.. He abstined for 14 days one time and there was no diffrence when looking at them in microscope. We found out that frequent release is the only way to get them tired!! But do they survive three days waiting for the egg?! I dont know.. Mabye we will make several attempts during O this time. I will use some lime if we decide to dtd close to O, but I skip it if we only do cut of. The lime gave me a yeast infection last month, dont want it again..

For a girl with what I have read, I would be more inclined to go with a 3 day cutoff. That matches up with having them enter when you are still acidic and not reached maximum alkalinity like you will at O and if XX sperm do in fact live longer, the XY ones will hopefully not hang on.

I would not do frequent BD around O for a girl. The way I see it, the more semen present, the more fluid is there for the faster XY sperm to make it there first. I don't think you want that for a girl. Pretty sure all my DD were conceived with frequent BD up to a cutoff. I think he was worn put by the time I O'd!

I think the calcium and magnesium are critical and I would keep calories to a minimum.

I agree with NBP, until such point as you're SURE you can't get pg with a cutoff, I would stay away from frequent BD through O because it will increase the numbers of sperm and that is the opposite of what you want.

For some people, they really truly can't get pg unless they BD through O, but I don't think you're there yet. Try with a cutoff and see what happens!

And I also agree, make sure you're watching your diet too!!! That way your CM will be helping from the inside out.

Yes, I think it's the same for my husband too...he just has super sperm even though he's 41!!! Frequent release is the only way to go for guys like that!!!

The only way you'll know if they can survive for three days is to give it a try! Give it a couple months and then you can reevaluate.

Can you use Rephresh? That will lower your pH and is also supposed to help with yeast infections (I don't know if you saw it, but I wrote an essay about swaying and yeast infections that may help you.) You can also try a very small dab of spermicide and for sure, take an antihistamine, if you do nothing else. (there's also an essay on this in the swaying section). There is nothing magic about lime, if it irritates you then try something else.

Def. do talk to your doctor about the progesterone and see what they say. It may really help you. They can also give you Clomid to help with your LP.