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GG- no cath for me, TG! But it took an hour to urinate. I thought I was going to die! The pain was horrible. I laid down in the tub and relaxed on my back, and voila! 4 cups of urine made it's way out!!! LOL!
I agree totally GG,! Mocha- you have such incredible odds of this being your Girl! I am rooting for PINK over here!!
My mum had a tilting uterus and my sister does too - so that makes total sense! My labours have all been incredibly intense from the first contraction - not necessarily in the back by just 'OUCH'! I always look at ladies who say 'it wasn't too bad to begin with' like they're crazy! I wasn't prepared for it the first time and I ended up with your typical cascade of intervention having caved and had an epidural - thankfully I was able to give birth to him without assistance but it was a close call. I decided no more epidurals after that and, as you know, DS2 was at home with breathing difficulties. The midwife actually helped him to turn while I was pushing (in a standing squat!) for 2 hours and I really feel she shouldn't have done that and knowing what I know now I wouldn't have let her! DS3 came out relatively easily actually, I think I only pushed for around 5 minutes on my back (evil, old school midwife wouldn't let me turn off of my back - though possibly because there was a pile of shit on the bed lol!). I'm now used to being examined right near the end and being told 'baby is still very high up and there's a lip of cervix in the way'. It's very disheartening but I know what to expect and know I can do it now! When I was pregnant with DS3 I using the site www.spinningbabies.com and did lots of positioning - maybe it helped a little, maybe it didn't! Do you fancy coming and being my doula?!Quote:
Originally Posted by DoulaMama
Is OP the same thing as a posterior baby? If so, both my births were like that too. My Baby A with my twins was posterior, which is probably why they declared that I was failing to progress and gave me a c-section. DS3 was also posterior, and as you know it was a completely unmedicated, natural birth...and OUCH!! Actually, the midwife did end up reaching into me at the last push and turning him around so he could come out. I'd been pushing forever and even had a huge eposiotamy and he still wasn't coming out. Is her manually turning him a bad thing? I know it hurt like HELL!
DM - I wish you could be MY doula as well!
Yes - OP is posterior or back-to-back. I just feel that he should have been given time to turn by himself and that the shock of being 'helped' could have contributed to his not breathing when he was born. That may not be the case but in retrospect I wish they had helped me with some positioning techniques at least in the first instance.
ds3 had some very brief breathing problems as well. I think he failed his first APGAR and needed some oxygen. They had told me they'd put him on my belly right after birth as long as he was healthy, but they whisked him away instead. I wonder if it was the shock of being turned? They did have me try different positions once they discovered he was posterior, but he wasn't budging.
Still, the next ones will be easy peasy right?!!
I had my appointment today and we couldn't find a constant heartbeat. She thought she heard baby moving and we heard a couple beats a couple times but not enough to register. I'm 11 wks, 4 days. She said she sometimes can't get the heartbeat this early. I'm having an u/s monday to find out for sure what is happening.
Glad to hear you are all doing well. Gg I'm going to check out your potty shots now!
tweedle - I'm hoping so hard that it was just too early and I'm so sorry you have to wait the whole weekend to find out for sure. The fact that she heard something is a good sign isn't it? {hugs} and I hope it doesn't go too slowly for you x
tweedle - I wouldn't worry too much (I know, easier said than done). It IS definitely early and I agree with Z that it's good that she heard SOMETHING. I hope the weekend passes very quickly for you.
Oh, if I had the funds, I would be there in a second! My dad lives and works in Southern part of England(not totally sure where though!LOL!) so I'd stay with him!! ;) I would LOVE to be there! :D I'd bring my newborn, strap her to my back and do what you needed me to do! LOLQuote:
Originally Posted by zanacal
WARNING...rant ahead....
It's frustrating to hear the stories....I know that it's not right to judge as I wasn't there at all, but....there are some things that just don't need to be done. I am 100% against cervical checks in labour. Unless the heart tones tell you there is a possible cord prolapse...cervical checks do nothing. A lip means NOTHING. Why can't a midwife trust a woman's body??? If you were checked on your back with an OP baby, there is ALWAYS a lip. You must be leaning forward, on all fours when checked and it will be much more accurate when checked. Was it an anterior lip? I'm guessing yes which is how most if not all OP babies dilate a cervix. If you felt the urge to push before 10cm it's because your body knew it could push the baby through the lip. After 3 babies...you know when to push, how to push and no check is going to tell you more than just listening to your body. I started pushing my last out at 7cm! Cervix's are stretchy! If you feel pain...it's better not to push. If it feels good, keep doing what you're doing.
If a MW is going to turn a baby, it should be done WAY earlier before the pushing stage even begins. A woman gets into the knee/chest position so the weight is off the cervix and then manually turns them. (Although, you don't have to turn an OP baby at all. A little time and they will come out. It just takes them a bit longer.) If the baby is too low, the neck gets cranked and it's not very good for the baby- especially if there is a nuchal cord. Plus this should only be done if the water has broken(on it's own). Breaking water is another issue I have with Dr's and Medwives. Pushing on your back is for the convenience of the MIDWIFE ONLY. It does not help mom or baby. Babies who's moms push on their backs have worse apgars than upright birthing mothers. A woman should be in whatever position feels right. Many times, a floppy baby is because the mom was put into a position by a caregiver...Mom can't listen to her body and adopt the right position for the baby. A mom instinctively knows when to change position....a midwife can many times interfere with this CAUSING the issues she wants to stay away from.
Oh Mocha! I would be there in a heartbeat!! How many days would it take me drive??? LOL!Quote:
Originally Posted by Mochagirl
How were you pushing?? What position?? How long had the pushing stage been going on for? How were his heart tones?(Epi's don't do a whole lot for getting them out...she cut you because she needed to get her hand in there... :()
Yes....I agree. Any intervention can cause the baby harm. I guess a MW has to weigh the pros and cons....was he doing badly? Were his heart tones low and not recovering after the cx's? If he was fine, she should have tried something else. A rebozo in early labour is a wonderful way to turn a posterior baby. Let me know if you want more info:) Plus, lunges up the stairs 2 at a time, or standing lunges with one foot raised. Being on all fours, or laying against the back of a couch(leaning forward) can help. Sometimes squatting doesn't work well as it puts a lot of pressure on baby and they need more room to move. The knee/chest position is also great during early labour. A midwife needs to become a doula for awhile and figure out how they can get this baby to move without doing something medical.Quote:
Originally Posted by zanacal
I mentioned this above...turning a babe too late doesn't often work as well as in early labour. Plus, cutting the babe's cord because of breathing issues!!!!! AHHHH!!! This makes me want to scream!!!! Room air has been proven to work BETTER than oxygen and they KNOW this. And with all the oxygen in that baby's cord...they were doing him a disservice by cutting his cord. Doing some back rubs, breathing in the baby's face, talking to him...all of these things work better at getting a baby to come around than cutting the cord prematurely and whisking AWAY from the mom. And even if the baby needs more than that, they can resuscitate while the cord is still attached. I so hope that Dr's(And mw's) start to "get it" soon. Babies don't need to breathe right away because they are still getting all their oxygen needs met by the placenta for the first few minutes. Most of the time it only takes a few minutes for a baby to really start crying and pink up:) I have some awesome video I could show you- mom does infant resus on her own baby and although it's a little scary to us...she just followed her gut and did it with no help. Pretty amazing what Mama can do!Quote:
Originally Posted by Mochagirl
YES!!!! The more babies you have, the more confidence and knowledge you gain, and the easier it is!!! (at least this is what I hope for and wish for all the Mama's out there!) Empowering Births!Quote:
Originally Posted by zanacal
If baby is low in the pelvis or you have a tilted uterus it's very hard to find the heartbeat this early. Plus, babies don't like dopplers:( It's basically like a train being driven by them at top speed...they are very loud(even though we think they can't hear until 20+ weeks they can still feel it in their body) and uncomfortable for them. Many times they will try to get away from the doppler if they can. It's the same with u/s. A baby will often try to cover it's ears when they are past 20 weeks as it's overwhelming for them. A have some links and info if you need it:) I wouldn't worry too much about babe! I'm sure he/she is fine!! If you could hear movement while the doppler was on you, then I'm sure there is a squiggly little baby in there!! xoxoQuote:
Originally Posted by tweedledeedum
Wow, DM - start driving now, because I want you here for the birth! :HH: Although I have 3 kids, I've only delivered vaginally once, so I still consider myself a novice. I'm not sure how long I was pushing - maybe a couple of hours? Long enough that the midwife said he wasn't coming out without an episiotomy. I pushed for a while after the episiotomy, then without wanring, on my last push, that's when she plunged her hands in, turned him and yanked him out. I was on my back, honestly - though my midwife is very lovely (despite a bit of ignorance, perhaps), and I'm sure if I had asked she'd have let me use a different position.
I had a horrible urge to push from the moment I entered full-on labour. I found the pain of trying not to push worse than the pain of the contraction itself. Maybe that's normal - how would I know - it was my first time labouring without an epidural. With my twins they pretty much forced an epidural on me the moment I entered the hospital, right after (very painfully) breaking my water. I hadn't even started labour yet. By the time they decided I needed a c-section, 27 hours later, the epidural was wearing off and they had to keep cranking it up to try to keep me numb. As I lay on the operating table with them about to cut into me, they told me that the epidural could wear off in the middle of the surgery and they'd have to knock me out quickly. Lovely. See why I wanted a VBAC with a midwife my second time around?
Oh Mocha~I would seriously come out there! :HH: Although if your MW starts plunging into anything I may have a few choice words for her! :rofl: I'd even bring my fancy birth pool!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by Mochagirl
I'm just so saddened to hear that some midwives just DO things without telling a woman or letting her know that it might hurt etc. You should have been supported in a position that allowed you to push more effectively first of all.
About the urge....when a first time(vaginal) mom has an OP baby she often feels the urge sooner than 10cm. Sometimes a woman can push with these urges and it will help...other times it will cause some swelling but only when you hold your breath and really bear down instead of "grunt" pushing. Your body might have been trying to work with the cx's to get him turned or realized that it would take a bit more time to get him down because of the OP positioning. It will be 100% different this time. Your cervix will dilate differently, you'll have a MUCH faster pushing stage with much less effort. I can bet on it!
I'm sorry about what they did to you with the twins:( They were basically setting you up for a c-section without you even realizing it. They feel the need to epi all the twin moms because of a possible c-section but in the end they create the need for the section. Are you free to labour in water with a midwife in Ontario? Do they "allow" that with VBAC mom's? That's one thing I recommend for all women is labouring in water...even if you don't have a waterbirth, it is amazing for pain relief:) Just in case you have another OP baby;)
I have a very lovely midwife that I used for 2 pregnancies(didn't call her for the birth of #3 though)and she is such a sweet woman! The thing I have a problem with is the lack of current, up to date practices. She is still doing things that shouldn't be done. It's just like many old Dr's...once they feel something should be done...they'll keep doing it that way until they retire. It's frustrating.
I love your attitude DM and you back-up everything I also feel. I do feel we're lucky in the UK to be cared for by midwives (not doctors) where there are no issues and that we don't for the most part have what seem to be the far more medicalised hospital births in other countries - no lying on your back in hospital gowns being told when to push and to the count of 10! I enjoyed my homebirth (I used a pool to labour in!) but I will never have another one because of the issues DS2 had (whether they had been preventable with different actions from the midwife or not), mainly because DH is absolutely not comfortable with that and I'm not prepared to put him through the fear of another homebirth - so I have to take the best I can from a hospital birth. I'll be at a new hospital this time because we've moved house so I don't know what they'll be like - but if it's similar to the last one there'll be a birthing ball, CD player etc and we'll be free to set up the room to our liking and probably left to our own devices for the most part (unless we manage to get a pool room which is what I'm hoping for). I also have a leaflet which says the midwives are able to provide aromatherapy which sounds rather pleasant! My birth plan basically states no drugs except gas and air and as little intervention and as active a birth as possible. My urge to push has always come early with my OP babies and I've just gone with it - first birth aside (when I had the epidural) I've never been told when to push and have been left to do what my body feels (besdies not being given the help to turn off my back late on with DS3 but I lucked out with my midwife who was way too old school). I love hearing your advice though and you're going to be so helpful to me down the line - I'll try and labour at home for as long as possible before I go to the hospital so perhaps I should have you up on Skype or something :D
Also, interested, I just read on another thread that you get a 'feeling' about gender with some ladies. Tell it to me straight :D Do you feel anything for me?!
Yes, he was crowning...I think. I don't know really. Honestly, I was in so much pain I was willing to do anything at that point.
As I said, I do like my midwife a lot...though I will admit she is young and perhaps inexperienced. I did feel in control of my birth experience - I really feel she would have supported me doing anything I wanted...I just didn't know what to ask for. I did labour in the tub for a while and didn't like it at all. I spent much of my time swaying on my feet or propped up on my hands and knees, and it was only when I was pushing that I lay on my back. For all I know I was even the one to suggest it - I wasn't really in my right mind by then and DH was already fainting from the blood that was gushing out every contraction :wink:.
In other news, I'm still quite sick. This sickness has settled into my lungs and now I've completely lost my voice and I'm hacking up a lung every few minutes. This morning I noticed a brownish stain on my underwear - no spotting when I wipe, though I do have TONS of yellowish CM. Is this anything to worry about?
Mocha, if your coughing alot then I would guess that the brownish cm is just old stuff literally being forced out of your body with the coughs:agree: Nothing to worry about and may not have even showed up without the cough!
DM, keep the rants coming!! I'm sure so many of us will go into the L&D rooms when time comes feeling alot more confident with what we're doing:) I'm hoping to be able to post on here from the delivery room for company as I go in alone and last time texting the family really comforted me, hope your online around mid-March:bigsmile:
Hi all, not been on for a few day, was nightshift and what a rotten 2 nights they were, sick with thumping headaches! Just catching up now with ur posts.
Tweedle, Hope ur keeping ok over the wkend and ur scan goes well. x
Thanks Doula, hope ur right and it's 2 wee girlies in there! Have a scan in 10 days, but since I will only be 15w5d, doubt they will take a guess for me. Have booked a 4d scan, but that's not till after xmas at 25wks pg. Not too long for u to wait to find out? Sure you have ur girl in there, all those nub guesses will be spot on! x
Mocha, sorry ur poorly, hate this time of yr, so many 'bugs' about! I have my flu jag on the 14th!! Not sure about ur staining, I had a wee bit of brown d/c at 7/8wks, but everything was fine. Had an early scan. Try not worry, but if it gets worse contact ur midwife. Hope ur backach better? x
I had terrible cramping early on, so bad, that's why I had my early U/S. Esp from right side, when I had ds2 they told me it was the corpus luteum cyst, but this time they couldn't explain it. Just 'stretching' and baby trying to 'get comfy' in there....they told me...lol
Z, that must of been so uncomfortable! I've had bladder probs for yrs, have to lean forward to pee sometimes!!!! It's awful, hope it settles soon.
GG, sorry, not good at nub guesses, but what a fab video! x
Fab!!! not that long to wait, 6wks will fly by..... Fx you hear pink news!! When is ur 1st U/S appt? xQuote:
Originally Posted by zanacal
Your hospital seriously sounds lovely, Z:) To be left alone and not told how/where/when to do things! Wow! That rarely happens here in my city. Your plan sounds great! Laboring at home for as long as possible is such a great idea:) You're pretty close to the hospital? Oh, and I 100% feel that although homebirth is a fantatic option for many women, it's not for all. We all have to feel good about where we give birth. It would be a different story if you were desperate for another HB and your hubby said no. It should be up to Mama to decide where she should birth the baby. Women want the best for their babies and should be trusted with those decisions:) Just my 2cents! It sounds like you have a detailed plan and good idea about what you want, which is great! It'll be fabulous!! Oh and I would absolutely, without a doubt, skype, text, talk to you on the phone when the big day arrives!!.... I would love to help out if help or ideas are needed:D xoxoQuote:
Originally Posted by zanacal
I'm so sorry that you feel so crummy:( The coughing can totally produce some spotting. It irritates the uterus and cervix but it should have no impact on baby:) I wouldn't worry about the cm at all:) I have tons of cm daily. There are some days it feels like I'm losing my plug! It's crazy! Anyway, coughing, having bm's,etc all push the cm out of you so tend to see more of it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mochagirl
About your birth- if you were crowning that makes much more sense:) I think maybe sitting with your mw and asking her about what happened at the end of your birth, would be a great idea:) maybe his head was tilted and she straightened him out which is why she needed to do the epi at the end. I've also had a few clients who HATE the water. It's not very grounding for them and they just can't stand it. I hope I didn't come across like your mw is an awful person!!! Sincerely didn't mean to make it sound like that!! Most Dr's and MW's want to help:) They go to school with the intention that they will save lives and be an important part of the birth. The thing is with many of them, they feel the need to DO something when for the most part they could knit or read a book in the corner if the room!! But, after all that schooling, they feel that women need to helped, saved, etc. Not to say your mw is like this! Its just that from experience MANY are. I just had a birth where the woman chose to push on her back for the majority of the birth. She felt comfortable and it worked fine up until crowning. She then squatted with some help and it really worked for those last few pushes:) a change in position can do wonders sometimes:)(oh and without an epi this time, the blood won't be gushing out and your hubby should be fine!!! ;)) All this to say that I think any woman that goes against the grain and seeks a VBAC is a courageous woman :HH: Not because it's a scary thing to attempt and do! But because there is very little support for VBACing women and many hurdles to overcome emotionally. You are an inspiration to thousands of women wanting the same thing.
Thanks DM - I hope the hospital I use this time is as good as the last one, but with them training their staff in aromatherapy that's a good indication that they're supportive of natural birthing where possible. To be honest, I think most maternity units in the UK are but they're extremely short staffed and pulled in different directions a lot of the time. I don't envy being in their position! We're not that close to the hospital - probably around 40 minutes and we'll need to sort out childcare before we set off. Eek!
I'm sorry you feel so rubbish Inglewood - do your work know that you're pregnant? My 12 week scan is a week on Thursday (when I'll actually be 13 weeks!) so I'm excited for that, though at the same time worried to make sure everything's ok. I feel less worried having seen bubba on screen at the beginning of this week though! When is your next scan?
Mocha, that sounds awful! ELP's suggestion about the coughing forcing the blood out sounds quite possible and I have had days when I've had loads of yellow cm too. Get well soon x
I set my alarm for every 2 hours during the night to make sure my bladder didn't get too full - but apparently I wake around every 1.5 hours anyway!!
I'll be here, Hunny! You just let me know if you need some support and I'll do whatever I can for you!! xoxo I'm sure there are a few people sick of the birth talk...LOL The birth junkie inside of me just can't control it sometimes!! :rofl:Quote:
Originally Posted by ELP
DM - don't worry - I didn't think you were telling me my mw is rubbish! :HH:
Oh, and for the record, the blood wasn't from the epi. I gushed blood at every contraction from the onset of active labour. The midwife admitted to me later she was a bit nervous about it, actually.
TBH I would have been nervous too!! Hmmmm...wonder if there was a partial plancental abruption which is why he had breathing issues for a bit. Did you gave sharp abdominal pain(if you recall)?Quote:
Originally Posted by Mochagirl
Hmmm...don't remember. This is likely unrelated, but when he was born the mw discovered a full, tight knot in his cord. She'd never seen anything like it after a healthy birth. I even took a picture of it it was so freaky.
Yay for being up every 1.5hrs... :( it's the same story here:( I feel your pain, Z. So no issues last night?Quote:
Originally Posted by zanacal
Oh and you're right- the day that any of our hospitals introduces aromatherapy to the birthing rooms...Pigs will fly;) I'd say you have a really great hospital and hopefully they'll respect your wishes! 40 minutes...that's a ways to go but if you get to the hospital too early for your comfort (and you have the funds)you could always rent a hotel room real close by and go in when you feel ready.
Wow! Well that could have contributed to the breathing issues. Although the Wharton's Jelly(thick jelly in the cord that allows the cord to be compressed without the arteries being "cut-off" so to speak) should help, it can sometimes be a very tight knot and baby can have issues. It sounds like there were a few things going on! I'm so positive that this birth will be straight forward and easier!! xoxoQuote:
Originally Posted by Mochagirl
MomtoRJA from IG also had a true knot in her daughter's cord and had a totally normal pg and birth.
I admire u too Mocha having the VBAC. I've had 2 c-sections and wouldn't like to attempt VBAC with the twins! My midwife did suggest I try at my book in , but now it's twins they have recommended a section. Which I agree with, too scared to have a VBAC x2!
Sure everything will be fine! 13wks will be a great nub time! will u ask for a nub shot?? My work know I am pg and are being great, but nightshift is tough on my body the best of times..... my next scan is a wk on tues.Quote:
Originally Posted by zanacal
Inglewood - I don't think I'd want to try a VBAC2 with twins, either!
That'll be a good week for scans then Inglewood :D I will get some photos from the scan (and of course I'll be glued to the screen!) but I'm not going to specifically ask for a nub shot. I'm hoping I don't get a good nub shot because I don't want to start placing too much on something so unreliable - but if I get one I will post it rather than obsess over it by myself! It'll only be a month until we know for sure so that will make it easier!!
Really? I remember MomtoRJA well from my IG days....Quote:
Originally Posted by atomic sagebrush
I sure hope there are no similar complications this time around! There was a lot about my twin pregnancy I didn't find out until my midwife for ds3 showed me the pathology report from that birth. Apparently ds1, who was my smaller twin, had an acute infection in his sac, and also had some very rare condition where he was missing the outer protective layer of his umbilical cord for the last inch or so. He also had a far from ideal attachment to the placenta - ds2 was getting all the resources. The doctors never told me about any of this. DS1 was born with laryngomalacia (a incompletely formed larynx) and resulting breathing problems and had to spend his first night in NICU + had no suck reflex and I had to syringe/tube feed him breast milk for his first 6 weeks before finally getting him on the breast....but thankfully other than that he was fine and today is one of the cleverest little monkeys I've ever known. All's well that ends well.
Argh - what button is it that I sometimes press which deletes everything I just wrote?! So annoying!
Mocha - you were amazing to stick with breastfeeding the twins, they are so lucky to have you for their mummy!
I was up at 1.30am in the bath! I woke needing a wee and had the same problem as a couple of nights ago even though it had been less than 2 hours since I last went! I tried the knee/chest position but it wasn't helping so I ran a bath and led as flat as I could. To begin with I think I weed a bit in the bath (nice eh?!) then I just led there deep breathing with tears running down my cheeks while my bladder seemed to fill to impossible levels and when I thought I might go pop I got out and sat on the toilet and luckily managed to go. I'm going to have to stop having a drink at bedtime - I only have one to take my pre-natal and I only take that at bedtime because I don't want it to make me feel sick during the evening. I think feeling sick is the preference here! I hope this stage passes quickly.
I started a November thread:
http://genderdreaming.com/forum/show...mber-Chit-Chat