New here with some questions...(kind of long)...

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Originally Posted by rainbowflower

writing this before work, so don't have masses of time to write lots, but this is what springs to mind from reading your replies:

1- LE diet not being good long-term (or, you seem to want to only be on that a short time). I don't think the LE diet itself is unhealthy in the longer term - it's certainly healthier than the IG and FGD diets and both of those are considered safe for up to 6 months. Why would you prefer to do vegetarian diet to the LE diet? Is there another reason?

2- aspartame/soda - you honestly don't need to do either of those things! if you're not stressing about pH (i.e. already know it's low or are lowering it with either aspirin or a douche), I wouldn't worry about aspartame. You could stick to water or peppermint tea and do just fine on the LE diet

3- well, I think you'd have to ask your DH about what he can do ;) With regards to the birth defects from abstaining, that's mainly in men over 35 but even then I think the chances are about 5% or something, not overly high since there is an increase risk of that anyway if you're much older.

4- I don't think there are any benefits to losing increased amounts of weight before the diet - it's good to have some left to lose before you start TTC because you can never be sure how long TTC will take

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Hi again! Thanks for taking the time to reply! :) Here's my answers to the points you touched upon...

1- I only prefer the semi-vegetarian diet to the LE diet for a "lifestyle" diet (meaning, I could carry on with this sort of eating ALL the time, not just for TTC) because it would be a slightly more nutritious diet. I could see myself adapting this sort of diet permanently, with "treats" of course, occasionally. I didn't mean to come across as though I would prefer this diet to the LE one for trying to sway pink...I certainly think the LE diet is spot on for the best attempt at a girl, with all the reading I've done. What I meant was, since I still have a considerable amount of weight to lose before even beginning my pink sway, I was thinking of doing the semi-vegetarian diet while I lose the "bulk" of the amount of weight I need to lose...then switch to the LE diet. I was just thinking that if I need to lose between 50-60 (or more) pounds, then I would have to be on the LE diet too long to do that. Right?

Here, this may help...

To give you an idea of my body's height and weight, where I was, where I am now, and where I need to go...

Height: 5' 1"
Starting weight (beginning of January, my ALL TIME high): 187 pounds
Current weight (as of today, February 1st): 167.6 pounds
Total weight loss so far: 19.4 pounds

Healthy weight range for my height and frame: 97 - 127 pounds
My personal "comfortable" weight range: 108 - 112 pounds
Optimal weight range for my body, when TTC pink: ____________ (?) Suggestions??

So, as you can see, I still have anywhere from 72 pounds to 56 pounds or so (give or take a few pounds) to lose, before I can even begin TTC. That's a large amount of weight! I figured if I could take off some more weight over the next few months by eating the semi-vegetarian diet, when I get a bit closer to the normal weight range, I could then switch to the LE diet to prepare for my pink sway. Does that make sense? Is it a good idea? Or, should I just go straight to the LE diet, and stay on that for the next several months, until all the weight drops off and until we're ready to TTC? What do you think? (anyone can answer this - I'd love to hear opinions/suggestions on what to do!)


2- That's good to know about the aspartame and the diet drinks. I'll have to keep that in the back of my mind as an option (and of course, I will have to test my and DH's pH, which I haven't done yet), but it's good to know that I won't mess up my sway if I decide not to include them.


3- Well, DH just turned 34 at the end of January. I don't know if that is "old enough" to have the concern over poor quality/damaged sperm when abstaining, of if he truly has to be over 35. However, if the chances are as low as you say, then I probably shouldn't worry about this too much. And yes, of course, I'll have to talk to DH about what he's comfortable with and what he thinks he's capable of, but from just knowing him so well, I think he might struggle with FR, so...it probably will end up being abstinence for us. We shall see! ;)


4- What you said here totally makes sense! Yes, I'll have to make sure I give myself some room to lose a little bit more weight once we start our sway - otherwise, I'll have nowhere to go! So, would you say it's more important to be very thin AND losing weight when trying to sway pink, OR it is just more important that you're losing weight (and it doesn't matter how thin you are)?


Thank you so much for your help with this! I am SO new to swaying, and still in the very beginning stages of learning and soaking up as much info as possible. I appreciate your help and your patience with me!! :)

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Originally Posted by auroara78

My suggestion with the healthy diet would be to avoid healthy fats in your diet...limit your olive oil, olives, omega-3s, nuts, etc...fish is fine, as a matter of fact, I personally find fish a great source of lean protein for a girl diet, just DON'T marinate it in olive oil! Cook it very basic, and personally, I'd avoid fish like salmon, (or just have it once in a while), that is highly nutritious....I personally think tiplia is a great choice of a healthy fish that is not *too* healthy, if you know what I mean?

Also, regarding seasons, there are both genders born everyday of the year, so while seasons may sway slightly, I've become disinclined to believe they hold a massive power. I concieved my first son in Jan, and my second in August, and August and summer is supposed to be a girl season, but he's all boy, I promise you. That's why I went ahead and attempted in Dec. because I really didn't think the seasons would have a big enough impact to wreck my sway. I guess we'll see in the future.

Good luck on your attempt...and i think losing weight is a great idea for your health and body and TTC'ing pink!

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Thank you for your reply! And your suggestions sound great! :)

I love fish, and would have no problem adding it to my LE diet. I'm sure it should be sparingly, though, right? Doesn't all fish have a good amount of healthy fats? And yes, I agree about the salmon (which is my fav fish, btw...but yes, is probably too nutritious and too high in healthy fats), so I will leave that one out. And I usually cook my fish under the broiler anyway, with no oil. Usually just some pepper and lemon.

That's great to know that the season in which you try to sway pink or blue doesn't really have much importance. Right now, I'm not really set on a specific month to start trying...I just want to be prepared, and then when I'm ready, I'm ready. :)

Thanks again for all your help! :)

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Originally Posted by rainbowflower

should probably add, frozen fish in supermarkets often has quite low sodium... and it would be even less if you soaked it in water overnight before cooking it

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This is a great suggestion! Thank you!! :)

Just bumping to see if anyone has any suggestions to what I wrote above! :)

Sweetpea, I would have you go from the fast straight into the LE Diet. People are losing gobs of weight on LE. It is safe to be on it indefinitely - it is neither bad for your health nor will it slow down your weight loss. The calorie/protein/fat intake is what is suggested by reproductive endocrinologists, Web MD, the WHO, and several other reputable sources.

The LE diet is totally rich in fresh fruits and vegetables and many vegetables are "free" foods that you can have unlimited amounts of. You're not offending me, I'm just trying to correct your misunderstanding here about what the LE Diet even is.

You do not in any way shape or form, have to include aspartame in your sway. However, the 2-3 servings of aspartame is considered safe by the FDA throughout pregnancy let alone before.

Also, with the sugary drinks, again, that is totally people's options to include/omit them. Some people are terrified of eating fruits and vegetables because (on another site) they are told that these are "boy foods" and these people can't get enough calories without otherwise going over on protein. I would prefer to see them increase fruit intake but I can't force them to do that, so the option then becomes seeing people eating 600 calories or encouraging them to get enough calories wherever I can and having a pop is simply one way that people can increase their caloric intake to prevent losing much weight. Some people weigh 85 lbs and would waste away to nothing eating fruit. If you have weight to lose, you have much more leeway to focus on fruit/veg. Drinking a pop is just a weapon in our arsenal for people who really cannot lose even a pound.

People drink pop/eat simple carbs all day every day and go onto have perfectly normal and healthy pg and at 1500-1800 calories, no one is going to wreck their health by drinking a pop. There are some people who cannot do that due to blood sugar problems and you can find instructions on how to tweak your sway to keep blood sugar more stable here: http://genderdreaming.com/forum/show...d-sugar-issues Aside from that, doing something for 6 weeks is NOT going to ruin your long term health regardless and that is why I strongly encourage everyone to leave behind sway tactics that do nothing besides prevent pg, such as timing, in order to get pg quickly.

Re your husband - yoru husband does not follow the LE Diet anyway. He can cut out red/all meat but I personally do not think men should gain or lose weight for swaying. It's too risky because weight loss lowers estrogen (in men, this sways blue) and also when men gain weight, they tend to gain muscle, which raises T and also sways blue. Weight training is dicey for the same reason - more T.

1)You've already done so much to lower your T and E levels by being on a juice fast, I personally think that to switch to a more healthy vegetarian diet will undo some/all of that (even tho vegetarians are statistically more likely to have girls, a healthy vegetarian diet probably sways blue). The LE Diet is safe to stay on indefinitely. Your option of course.

2)Optimal range for TTC pink would be on the low side of your healthy range. 97-112 lbs BUT since you'll have lost so much, you'll still be swaying pink even if you can't make it that low.

3)You could also do compressed frequent release and I think someone linked you to the "frequency" essay already.

4)Agree 110% about needing to leave some wiggle room for continued weight loss when you begin swaying but I do want to point out that for those who have lost a lot of weight, your metabolism WILL reset and you may plateau and not be able to lose weight indefinitely.

Rainbow and I have a disagreement about whether it's weight vs. weight loss - from what I have read, I believe it's BOTH low body weight and weight loss as well that sway. She is more sold on the idea that it's just weight loss and not so much your actual body weight that matter. It probably doesn't matter for most people but I do suggest that people be at their lowest adult weight before TTC for a girl.

5)Go very lite on the fish (it's ok for now but once you start to actually sway, I prefer that you drop it.) because fish more than 2x a week may cause serious birth defects.

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Originally Posted by atomic sagebrush

Sweetpea, I would have you go from the fast straight into the LE Diet. People are losing gobs of weight on LE. It is safe to be on it indefinitely - it is neither bad for your health nor will it slow down your weight loss. The calorie/protein/fat intake is what is suggested by reproductive endocrinologists, Web MD, the WHO, and several other reputable sources.

The LE diet is totally rich in fresh fruits and vegetables and many vegetables are "free" foods that you can have unlimited amounts of. You're not offending me, I'm just trying to correct your misunderstanding here about what the LE Diet even is.

You do not in any way shape or form, have to include aspartame in your sway. However, the 2-3 servings of aspartame is considered safe by the FDA throughout pregnancy let alone before.

Also, with the sugary drinks, again, that is totally people's options to include/omit them. Some people are terrified of eating fruits and vegetables because (on another site) they are told that these are "boy foods" and these people can't get enough calories without otherwise going over on protein. I would prefer to see them increase fruit intake but I can't force them to do that, so the option then becomes seeing people eating 600 calories or encouraging them to get enough calories wherever I can and having a pop is simply one way that people can increase their caloric intake to prevent losing much weight. Some people weigh 85 lbs and would waste away to nothing eating fruit. If you have weight to lose, you have much more leeway to focus on fruit/veg. Drinking a pop is just a weapon in our arsenal for people who really cannot lose even a pound.

People drink pop/eat simple carbs all day every day and go onto have perfectly normal and healthy pg and at 1500-1800 calories, no one is going to wreck their health by drinking a pop. There are some people who cannot do that due to blood sugar problems and you can find instructions on how to tweak your sway to keep blood sugar more stable here: http://genderdreaming.com/forum/show...d-sugar-issues Aside from that, doing something for 6 weeks is NOT going to ruin your long term health regardless and that is why I strongly encourage everyone to leave behind sway tactics that do nothing besides prevent pg, such as timing, in order to get pg quickly.

Re your husband - yoru husband does not follow the LE Diet anyway. He can cut out red/all meat but I personally do not think men should gain or lose weight for swaying. It's too risky because weight loss lowers estrogen (in men, this sways blue) and also when men gain weight, they tend to gain muscle, which raises T and also sways blue. Weight training is dicey for the same reason - more T.

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Atomic, thank you SO MUCH for that great, detailed reply! :) This makes so much more sense to me now, especially the part I made bold above. I really appreciate you taking the time to reply with such great detail. Thank you!!

As for what you wrote in the first paragraph, regarding your suggestion for me to do right into the LE diet from the juice fast: I am a bit concerned that losing so much weight on the juice fast, by eating nothing and only juicing, and then going on to the LE diet will stall my weight loss. Is this a concern, do you think, or no? Obviously, I am sure I will gain a few pounds initially just from going from a liquid diet to a solid one. But do you think the weight will still come off while continuing the LE diet? On the flip side, I figured if I ate a little bit higher calories than what the LE diet calls for, maybe a more "healthy" semi-vegetarian or completely vegetarian diet, and then went on to the LE diet, my body would recognize the LE diet as more "lean times," with lower calories, lower nutrition, etc. and thus continue to lose weight. Does that even make sense at all? Maybe I'm completely wrong, and perhaps I'm overthinking all of this...but I'm just afraid of stalling my weight loss altogether by going from a juice fast straight into the LE diet.

(And again, sorry for my over-analyzing!! :oops:)

Also, one more question about the LE diet: I understand why the caloric range is between 1500-1800 calories; however, for me, I *never* seem to lose weight with that many calories. I usually need about 1200-1300 calories per day to lose weight. For me, 1500-1800 would just barely cause me to maintain, maybe even *gain* a bit (if I'm sedentary). Would it be alright for me to go as low as 1200-1300, if I chose in my plan to be sedentary? Another option for me would possibly be to consume the suggested 1500-1800 calories, but then go overboard on the exercise (60+ minutes per day - which I think I could definitely do). What are your thoughts between these two options?

Thanks again for your reply! You truly are a wealth of information!!! :HH:

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Originally Posted by atomic sagebrush

1)You've already done so much to lower your T and E levels by being on a juice fast, I personally think that to switch to a more healthy vegetarian diet will undo some/all of that (even tho vegetarians are statistically more likely to have girls, a healthy vegetarian diet probably sways blue). The LE Diet is safe to stay on indefinitely. Your option of course.

2)Optimal range for TTC pink would be on the low side of your healthy range. 97-112 lbs BUT since you'll have lost so much, you'll still be swaying pink even if you can't make it that low.

3)You could also do compressed frequent release and I think someone linked you to the "frequency" essay already.

4)Agree 110% about needing to leave some wiggle room for continued weight loss when you begin swaying but I do want to point out that for those who have lost a lot of weight, your metabolism WILL reset and you may plateau and not be able to lose weight indefinitely.

Rainbow and I have a disagreement about whether it's weight vs. weight loss - from what I have read, I believe it's BOTH low body weight and weight loss as well that sway. She is more sold on the idea that it's just weight loss and not so much your actual body weight that matter. It probably doesn't matter for most people but I do suggest that people be at their lowest adult weight before TTC for a girl.

5)Go very lite on the fish (it's ok for now but once you start to actually sway, I prefer that you drop it.) because fish more than 2x a week may cause serious birth defects.

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All very good points as well! :)

1) Hmmm, I totally get where your coming from here. When I suggested me going from the juice fast, to the "healthier" and higher calorie vegetarian diet, and then to the LE diet, I was thinking of only being on the vegetarian one for like, 2 weeks maybe. Just enough time for my body to recover a bit from not having solids, let my weight fluctuate a bit or whatever it's going to do from being on a liquid diet, and then going to a solid one...and then I'd start the LE diet, which would be lower calories, nutrients, etc...which I hope would send my body the signal that "times are lean/food is scarce" at that point. Then I would, of course, continue for as long as I needed to on the LE diet. What are your thoughts on this approach? Totally unnecessary? Good idea?

2) I was 110 pounds on my wedding day, and over the course of the last few years, my weight has fluctuated, and even gotten as low as 113 pounds as an adult. I understand that it's *mainly* the weight LOSS that sways pink, but being at my lowest adult weight could only help, I'm sure. Therefore, I'll shoot for lower than 110 (with wiggle room, of course).

3) I do think compressed FR may be an option for us. Again, will have to talk to DH about this some more.

4) That definitely is my concern - that my metabolism will come to a screeching halt and prevent any more weight loss. That's why I was thinking what I was suggesting about my diet might help in this scenario. Thoughts?

5) I will definitely make note of what you said here about fish. I will probably include it a little bit initially, but then drop it altogether later on, closer to when I actually start swaying.


Again, thanks again for all your help! It is very much appreciated!!! :HH:

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Originally Posted by sweetpea

Atomic, thank you SO MUCH for that great, detailed reply! :) This makes so much more sense to me now, especially the part I made bold above. I really appreciate you taking the time to reply with such great detail. Thank you!!

As for what you wrote in the first paragraph, regarding your suggestion for me to do right into the LE diet from the juice fast: I am a bit concerned that losing so much weight on the juice fast, by eating nothing and only juicing, and then going on to the LE diet will stall my weight loss. Is this a concern, do you think, or no? Obviously, I am sure I will gain a few pounds initially just from going from a liquid diet to a solid one. But do you think the weight will still come off while continuing the LE diet? On the flip side, I figured if I ate a little bit higher calories than what the LE diet calls for, maybe a more "healthy" semi-vegetarian or completely vegetarian diet, and then went on to the LE diet, my body would recognize the LE diet as more "lean times," with lower calories, lower nutrition, etc. and thus continue to lose weight. Does that even make sense at all? Maybe I'm completely wrong, and perhaps I'm overthinking all of this...but I'm just afraid of stalling my weight loss altogether by going from a juice fast straight into the LE diet.

(And again, sorry for my over-analyzing!! :oops:)

Also, one more question about the LE diet: I understand why the caloric range is between 1500-1800 calories; however, for me, I *never* seem to lose weight with that many calories. I usually need about 1200-1300 calories per day to lose weight. For me, 1500-1800 would just barely cause me to maintain, maybe even *gain* a bit (if I'm sedentary). Would it be alright for me to go as low as 1200-1300, if I chose in my plan to be sedentary? Another option for me would possibly be to consume the suggested 1500-1800 calories, but then go overboard on the exercise (60+ minutes per day - which I think I could definitely do). What are your thoughts between these two options?

Thanks again for your reply! You truly are a wealth of information!!! :HH:

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1)My concern with the switching to the healthier diet and then onto the LE Diet is that first of all, you're going to simply reprovide your body with ample nutrients by doing so. I don't think that our bodies are that particular about the diets - they're not conscious, they don't "know" that you're on a healthier or less healthy diet - our bodies just need X amount of raw materials to do certain tasks and when it doesn't have those raw materials, it then does those tasks less efficiently. Your body doesn't notice changes in diet inasmuch as it notices changes in its function- less calories, less protein, less fat, etc - it has no way of saying, well last month I was on a very well balanced diet and now my diet is less well balanced, better pop out a girl. Your body lives in the moment and at any point if you have enough raw materials to make estrogen and testosterone, your body may take that as a sign that a boy pg is a good gamble.

In other words, I just think it doesn't make sense to fast and deplete your raw materials, then switch to a healthy diet that replenishes all those raw materials, and then switch to a lower nutrient one because it's like one step forward, one step back, one step forward rather than 2 steps forward. You may be even worse off, because when you do lose weight, your body starts to hold onto nutrients by storing more than normal and also by reducing metabolism. I think for best results you need to continue on the path you have already begun and not risk replenishing anything that the juice fast depleted.

This is kind of hard to understand and I hope I'm expressing it adequately.

If you never lose weight on 1500-1800 cals, then yes, you absolutely may reduce to 1200-1500 (no lower). the 1500-1800 is just the cal level that seems to work best for most people most of the time. Stick with the 40-50 g protein tho.

The option of staying at 1500-1800 cals and adding exercise is also a valid option. I actually think the best of all possible sways is the intense overexercise with low protein diet and weight loss, it's just that most people don't have the luxury of doing it - they either don't have the time or else they would waste away to nothing. Just be really super sure you're able to actually exercise more than 60 min, high intensity, 6-7 days a week or you'd be better off doing nothing.

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Originally Posted by sweetpea

All very good points as well! :)

1) Hmmm, I totally get where your coming from here. When I suggested me going from the juice fast, to the "healthier" and higher calorie vegetarian diet, and then to the LE diet, I was thinking of only being on the vegetarian one for like, 2 weeks maybe. Just enough time for my body to recover a bit from not having solids, let my weight fluctuate a bit or whatever it's going to do from being on a liquid diet, and then going to a solid one...and then I'd start the LE diet, which would be lower calories, nutrients, etc...which I hope would send my body the signal that "times are lean/food is scarce" at that point. Then I would, of course, continue for as long as I needed to on the LE diet. What are your thoughts on this approach? Totally unnecessary? Good idea?

2) I was 110 pounds on my wedding day, and over the course of the last few years, my weight has fluctuated, and even gotten as low as 113 pounds as an adult. I understand that it's *mainly* the weight LOSS that sways pink, but being at my lowest adult weight could only help, I'm sure. Therefore, I'll shoot for lower than 110 (with wiggle room, of course).

3) I do think compressed FR may be an option for us. Again, will have to talk to DH about this some more.

4) That definitely is my concern - that my metabolism will come to a screeching halt and prevent any more weight loss. That's why I was thinking what I was suggesting about my diet might help in this scenario. Thoughts?

5) I will definitely make note of what you said here about fish. I will probably include it a little bit initially, but then drop it altogether later on, closer to when I actually start swaying.


Again, thanks again for all your help! It is very much appreciated!!! :HH:

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1)I just don't see the point for the reasons I mentioned above and also because your body is not going to reset anything in 2 weeks. All you're doing is throwing your T levels a liferaft in the form of protein, calories, and healthy fat. Your body just doesn't respond like that to changes in diet. Things change gradually and it takes time for your body to even notice and change its functioning in response.

2)I agree, but any weight loss is still good and if it's enough already, then TTC. Plenty of people have conceived girls not at their lowest adult weight, I just think it's a good goal.

4)fine to drop back to 1200-1500, it's just that 1500-1800 is safer for overall health and more doable by most people in the long term. No lower than 1200 tho.

Glad to be of help! Good luck!!