With this Vit D, it sways blue does it?
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With this Vit D, it sways blue does it?
We may just have to agree to disagree on this one and that is fine. :happy: I appreciate your questioning and offering a different opinion and that is very welcome and valued. :agree:Quote:
Originally Posted by Freya
I don't want to deter anyone from including/excluding calcium as a part of a sway (although I do think it ~may~ hurt blue swayers to eliminate calcium all together). I am certainly not the font of all knowledge and I could very well be wrong on this, but since so many other sources of swaying info totally accept without question the French Diet and base everything upon it, someone needs to look at it with a critical eye and really see if it measures up.
I'm not trying to argue or pick a fight but I did want to speak to a couple of points real quick.
First of all, a well-designed study does not test for more than one thing. A well-designed study focuses on ONE variable alone. That they added in timing as well...I wonder about the reasons why they might have done that. The fact is DOZENS of good, thorough studies have been done on timing and there really was no need for another one, whereas there really do need to be (many) more studies done on maternal diet. It makes me wonder why they felt the need to do that. Was it because the purpose of the study was solely to support their program that they are selling (which to my understanding is timing and minerals)? Was it because they didn't get the results they were hoping for and they wanted to confuse the issue? According to their data, those who got timing correct and diet incorrect had more boys. If mineral levels are what is swaying, shouldn't the opposite be true? (small sample size, but the entire study was a small sample size).
The blood-levels of calcium - yes, they tested the levels of calcium in the blood and found very small increases/decreases in the mineral levels, as one would expect if you had been following this particular diet. We don't know that it means anything other than that they were on some weird diet. We don't know if the women with the highest levels of calcium were following the diet strictly or if their levels of calcium were higher because of some biological reason or even because they HADN'T been following the diet so 10 minutes before they went to have their blood checked they popped some calcium supplements. Your body doesn't like or want high levels of calcium in the blood and takes steps to get rid of the calcium - people don't walk around with elevated levels of calcium in the blood unless they have something seriously wrong with them. Everyone's blood-calcium levels go up immediately after taking a supplement or eating calcium-rich foods, and then the body excretes as much calcium as it possibly can trying to get rid of the stuff. Besides that, there is still no proof that these mineral levels were what sway at all. ANY time you change your diet you send a signal to your body that something has changed and a child of a different gender may be a better "bet".
Please understand, I'm not blindly arguing against studies. I argue against the idea that minerals ALONE are the only/best way to sway, because I saw tons of people who were taking all the right supps and eating the IG diet (and these are people who I totally believe were eating that way because they had serious GD) having opposites. And because I always ate tons of calcium and have 4 boys and my mom never eats calcium and has 2 girls and a boy. When I started to look into swaying in preparation for my sway I found that the Oxford study (which was a well-designed and unbiased study not done by people who were looking for a particular outcome) found a higher intake of calcium = more boys and I realized that most people around the world can't even eat dairy products and yet the ratio of boys/girls born is pretty close to 50-50 worldwide. And people couldn't even DIGEST dairy foods until 15,000 years ago and yet both men and women were born. Given this, it seems highly unlikely that massive calcium intake is required for conceiving a particular gender.
The Dutch study referenced the Oxford study (moms of boys ate more sodium and potassium) but LEFT OUT the part that did not support their conclusion. (moms of boys also ate more calcium).
People can and do make that argument against maternal body condition swaying. In fact the researcher who came up with the idea of testosterone affecting gender ratio believes that maternal body condition has nothing to do with anything, it's entirely that females high in testosterone have access to better foods. Then the researcher who supports the blood glucose levels presents studies that refute that idea. It goes round and round but the net result is more and better information.
Anyway, this is a roundabout way of saying what I always say, I don't think enough study has been done to conclude that cal-mag sways pink in every instance and sod-pot swaying blue in every instance and no one should rely solely on the idea of minerals to sway. You can have a great sway while following the mineral recommendations and also keeping blood glucose levels low and lowering testosterone.
I believe it sways blue by raising testosterone.Quote:
Originally Posted by TTC5
Others will tell you it sways pink because it helps your body absorb calcium.
I want to add that I don't think it's good for your fertility to not have some calcium in your system....I am not a study in and of itself, and I am 35, but let me just point this out: when I started swaying in August last year, I had 4 months of ZERO calcium, and I mean as little as humanly possible, and no bfp....and I am usually as fertile as they come. The month I added calcium foods back in, bam- bfp. Although I had a m/c, this next month we tried (still with calcium), BAM- another bfp. Makes me wonder......
Lola - very interesting indeed!
Me being dairy intolerant I do not get much calcium that way do you think I should be adding some calcium some other ways? I just do not know!??
I do know, with all 4 of my girls, (before finding out my intolerance!!) that I consumed ALOT of dairy in all shape and form: milk, cheese, yoghurt, chocolate, custards, sour cream, I also ate brocolli every day lol this has calcium doesn't it?
Yes, you did eat a lot of calcium, but you have to look at your lifestyle overall, your diet overall....did you eat a lot of meat? I remember you saying you didn't have a hearty diet, so that was probably more of the reason why your body chose to make girls. I just know that I am so used to eating calcium foods (my mom has early osteoporosis, so I have always been diligent about preventing it in myself). Not like I used to overload on calcium or anything, but suddenly taking it out of my diet seemed to mess with my body, but that may just be coincidence. I mean, this past sway, I was having just small, normal amounts of dairy, like some almond milk in morning cereal, some half and half in morning coffee, some cheese on top of my spaghetti, stuff like that, but I still haven't gone to drinking huge glasses of milk and eating yogurt and the like. What was important to me is getting the nutrients and protein from the dairy products.
I think you're just fine with what you're eating TTC, no worries. As long as you're eating more of most nutrients (esp. salt and protein) than you were before, if you cut back on calcium you can have the peace of mind knowing that you're sticking with the traditional sway and you'll be swaying blue regardless of whether calcium is a magic pink bullet or not. It may even HELP you because as I well know, lactose intolerance can make food pass through your intestines quicker giving less time for nutrients to be absorbed.Quote:
Originally Posted by TTC5
Strange, as the same thing happened for me. Six months of nothing except two chemicals, and when I switch to TW and go from 250mg to 600mg Ca I get a nice BFP the first month. I was ill a lot, too while on the alkaline diet because I was aiming for pH8-9 (this was before I reduced calcium, though, so alkalinity could have caused infertility too). Seriously, I wonder whether the gender diet is really supposed to be for people who really follow it?Quote:
Originally Posted by LolaInLove
I'm not angry at all, in fact I enjoy a good debate :happy: .Quote:
Originally Posted by atomic sagebrush
I agree with you totally that minerals shouldn't be the only route to swaying. In fact, as I have posted somewhere else, I think the CM mucins are the key to swaying, and they are influenced by both hormonal levels and minerals. However, as you say, the body regulates its own mineral levels and pH, so large efforts to influence these will give very minor changes, but there seems to be some evidence that these minor changes make something happen.
The big problem with several interacting factors is that when people don't account for them in their studies, the studies become muddled. That, I think, is the biggest argument for including both diet and timing in a study: you don't control all the variables, but at least you control two. I'm absolutely convinced estrogen counteracts the effect of calcium because that is what happens on a cellular level in the mucus, and therefore, I believe it is totally necessary to account for both. Higher testosterone leads to higher estrogen effects, right? So, if you make a diet study, you would be a fool to ignore that estrogen peaks during the three days before O. If you do, you have ignored a confounder. In the end, they got quite a good fit for both values. The population was limited, I agree. But interestingly it was women who'd had only boys before, and the fact that they got their girls if they followed the instructions was promising. Of course, it could just have been their turn statistically, and that is the problem with the study.
In terms of good and bad studies, I personally think that statistics based on retrospective interviews of food intake are overrated. At least blood values is some sort of solid proof. Once they produce a nice cohort study, I will be happier :wink: .
BTW, leaving out data is just science's way of building an argument. There is no "truth" out there, but more like the most popular beliefs of the day. (sometimes scientist go on for decades ignoring data because some big-shot did back in the seventies). What I'm saying is, don't blame the scientist, blame the system. Science pretends to be truth but it came from philosophy and the roots are still there. The authors of the Dutch study probably had to ignore some aspects of the Oxford study to be able to publish.
Thank you!
Now I do try and keep up with the science but I must admit I'm kind of v.basic understanding lol, but!!, if estrogen peaks 3 days before ov, then would a 3 day cut-off be a good shot for blue? And either way sodium and potassium are good for blue,
Yep, my switch was really similar in terms of diet. I know every body is programmed to know when it is in a healthy state to conceive, and I just don't think mine perceived the IG diet as healthy for my system. And this bfp also came about with me adding a good amount of antioxidants to my routine in both supps and food as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by Freya
And CONGRATS, Freya!
Lola what ways did you increase your antioxidants?
I totally agree, Lola. I suppose it must be different for different women how well the diet is tolerated. My body for sure didn't approve!Quote:
Originally Posted by LolaInLove
And congratulations to you too :) ! Talk about date closeness!
ELP, estrogen starts to rise three days before O, then peaks, which causes LH to surge, in turn forcing ovulation. That's where I think the whole three-day cut-off for the girl sway comes from. From what I've read, though it's better to wait until one day before O or try to be spot on. If you do a three day cut-off, you might counteract the effects of the boy diet, depending on how much "good" CM you've got of course. It's probably more crucial for girl swayers to be wary of EWCM, than the opposite, since boy swayers have a tendency to move "with nature". But that's just me hypothesising ;) .
We did typical boy diet as well! Dh and I ate lots of whole grains (never had white bread), rice, potatoes, tomato sauce/red sauce, pastas, red meat, chicken, fish. Lots of nuts, berries, fruits and veggies galore!!! I drink coffee once a day, black tea. NO DAIRY! I think this is what I need to diff now cause I HATE milk. cheese if fine, but how much cheese can you have per day. this is one area I think I was lacking and that is calcium!! i never had enough calcium. Dh and I work out a lot but I do weights and cardio. We only eat out once a week. Pretty consistent weight throughout my adult life. SALT on everything. And snack consisted of anything chcolate and salty. I love chips, crackers, pretzels, nuts, all that salty stuff! I hope this helps and you can have all my blue dust!
Oh yeah and with DS2 and DS3 we DTD after a few days abstaining at the first sign of +opk til O!
I don't believe a 3 day cutoff is good for blue regardless of hormones because of sperm count. Too many sperm may have died off and lower numbers of sperm seem to sway pink somehow, we know not why.Quote:
Originally Posted by ELP
So what kind of cut off are we looking at? xx
I think the evening before O is probably best for blue provided that you have a lot of EWCM! No EWCM, no attempt.
Thanks Atomic, now.. how to pin point the day before... is this when your temp takes a drop??
What about watery? Both my boys I never got EWCM but I did have watery (no stretch)
:agree:I did this, fingers X'ed!!Quote:
Originally Posted by atomic sagebrush
Watery is equivalent to fertile, EWCM and sways blue.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tulips
No, that is usually the day OF O. Not everyone's temp drops anyway (please see http://www.fertilityfriend.com/Faqs/Ovulation-Dip.html) and your temp may not consistently dip from month to month.Quote:
Originally Posted by TTC5
The best way to pinpoint the day before O is by fertility monitors, but you can also use OPKs (I would wait 6-12 hours after a positive OPK to DTD to ensure that you are not having a two day cutoff though!)
Lots of wheatgrass shots (from the local health food store's deli) and drank a green supplement I made myself every day, plus the Pynogenol, which is a pine bark extract that is an excellent antioxidant. Actually, I believe Freya is the one who suggested that on IG after my chemical in January. Looks like it worked! But with the antioxidants come a lot of good nutrients for a blue sway. I think the boy diet on the whole is pretty antioxidizing for the body with all of the fruit and veggies.Quote:
Originally Posted by TTC5
Freya, we are about a day apart it looks! I conceived on March 9....you must have been March 11 or so, right?
I LOVE pycnogenol, but I stopped taking it now. I had DH take it too, because it can have a very positive effect on sperm count :) . The problem is, you never know what really works, but it had a massive effect on stuff like bleeding after injury and it reduced AF by a day for me, so I suppose it rejuvenated me a bit!
Lola, March 10, morning GMT+1 ;) !
Hi Atomic, I see... so if I seem to get say 2 days of + on the opk I would dtd 6-12 hrs after the first +? What if my positive came say of an evening but morning is not really good for us, is it ok to do it the following evening so that would be 24 hrs after the first +?
Right on, Freya! FX we both have some boys in the oven right now!
Well, you should be taking your OPK in the afternoon anyway so you could DTD either the night of the OPK (which you run the risk of a cutoff) or the next evening. I think the next evening would still be safe and not risk an O+12 but you would know best - do you find that you O very quickly after your OPK or do you have a bit of warning in advance?? Some people O right after their + OPK and some people don't O for 2 days!Quote:
Originally Posted by TTC5
We dtd around midnight of my 1st +opk (took it in the afternoon) and then again the next day at midnight, FWIW. I guess we'll see in a couple of months if that yeilded a boy or not though!Quote:
Originally Posted by TTC5
Don't remember much at the time we got ds because we weren't "trying" officially and I wasn't tracking anything. Our plan was to start in January 2004, conceived in December 2003 (Sorry for not yet knowing abbreviations that would make this shorter).
We were BOTH on the South Beach Diet at the time. I am thinking Phase 2. We were both in good shape, especially DH. I hardly remember the diet, but I think it had a lot of tomato juice.
When TTC for our boys (and I wasn't swaying, never knew you could unless it was high tech :oops: ) I ate tonnes of salty foods, never drank milk, well not much anyway. I drank green tea and grapefruit juice as I was told that would help with EWCM, in turn helping with TTC. (at the time I didn't know that too much EWCM swayed for boys) So I ended up with a fair bit of EWCM.(sorry if tmi) Also I ate lots of take away foods and ate breakfast. We bd a maximum of 4 days sometimes less and always on O day. Also I never exercised and was hardly ever outdoors. Umm think that's about it.......
When I fell pregnant with all my boys I was eating a diet high in salt, lots of cheese but not much other dairy. Bread everyday at least, lots of tea, in general too many calories, wine and snacks in the evenings usually salty snacks)-and from memory at least with the last 2 def EWCM.
I wasnt swaying with the beautiful little boy I have on the way but I was trying very hard to get pregnant! I was on a low carb diet, and eat this way mostly anyway, with lots of meat and red meat. I also eat a ton of salt on everything, always have. Very little dairy, only milk in my tea and the occasional bit of cheese. I also used Zestica as a lube, and I used the individual aplicators which I squirted inside before dtd - so LOTS of sperm friendly lube in there. We dtd 2 days before ovulation and on the day of ovulation - no idea what time I ovulated though. Finally, after doing the deed I did a shoulder stand against the wall and stayed there for as long as possible (prob 15 mins) to give the sperm as easy passage as possible. Good luck ladies!
AWESOME info, thanks so much, ladies! I am SOOOOOO hoping I changed my body enough to make this one a boy. I did all the stuff you gals did, for a good 8 months, too!
GoodLuck:)
I was a concrete boy sway without even knowing it. I had a miscarriage two months prior to conceiving. I had some complications and bled for 6 weeks. During that time I was downing bananas and red meat to help with the blood loss. I was eating very high nutrient foods and not having dairy very often, which is rare for me because I am a dairy nut! The day after my bleeding stopped DS I BD and the next day I ovulated. We had not BD for 6 weeks. It was also a full moon the night we BD. And we did it twice in a row that night.
Hi ladies, for DS I really really wanted to get pregnant badly. Our first attempt worked, and this is what I did in the months leading up: yoga every other day. Sometimes twice a day (well, a flow class and then restorative, but still...) I was stressed about several things. I charted, and knew I o'd in CD14. I ate cereal or a bagel every morning. All organic food. Good prenatal. Lots of cheese. Decaf coffee all the time. I was lean with muscles, but not buff, just pretty lean.
We dtd every other day. I told DH no tighty whities, no hot tubs. There was a super funny day when we went for a long bike ride and I freaked out about his balls getting too hot. Can you tell I might have been a little stressed?
Now I was not a salt fiend. Pretty low salt, in fact. I like sugar but was really limiting it. I ate lots of salad, no meat, not even fish. Lots of whole grains. lentils,. pastas, pizza. I had a very healthy diet with a variety of nutrients and it was fresh, lots of it raw.
I even took robitussin on the attempt day before what I thought would be O. But I was doing this mayan abdominal massage to let go of some emotional issues regarding pregnancy, and she told me I might O a day early, so we ended up DTD 2 days before O and on O, so hit O day with robitussin to boot. I was a EWCM monster. I got a faint + pregnancy test like 7dpo, and I tested because I had a dream I was pg with a boy the previous night.
LOL at the hot balls! ;)
When i fell pregnant with both my ds's i was eating three proper meals a day with snacks, never been on a diet in my life lol! Never drank milk, coffee or any kind of fizzy drinks. Typical day woul;d be cereal or toast for breakfast, choc bar mid morning, sandwich and crisps for lunch, meat and veg/ pasta for dinner and a snack early evening. I was probably consuming well above the daily recommended intake of calories, i was the only one of all my friends at the time who were ttc that ate three meals a day and i was the only one that concieved a ds!
I also stayed around the same weight and dtd around O with frequent bd, had lots of wet and ewcm for the week leading up to O always