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Originally Posted by Complex Emotions

Thank you for your insights, Atomic, but I have to tell you it's really, really hard to think about not trying in February either. I'm going to need to think about this for a few days. I mean we've already given up November, December, and now January. I don't feel right about holding off any longer. If we do have two boys, it seems like they'll possible have a deeper relationship if they're closer in age.

Also, to be clear, I don't want to give the impression that I couldn't handle another boy. It's more like sometimes I can't handle the thought of never having a daughter... but sometimes I can. If that comes to be my reality I probably will need to go through some difficult mourning, but I believe I would ultimately be able to love my second son just as much as I do love my first.

Each month of this process I'm learning, more and more, just how much we're not in control. It's helping me to fully grasp just how precious any baby would be, and in a way it's slowly allowing me to rise above the gender anxieties and make peace with the reality of the situation.

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I understand totally and I realize rereading what I wrote that complex emotions are just that - complex - and that I get that you can totally feel lots of different ways about this. I hope my response wasn't overly harsh, please realize that I actually DO get people who are falling apart and basically locking themselves in a closet going full-on Howard Hughes researching every possible thing that has ever been rumored to sway gender, no matter how dangerous or farfetched it is. So I apologize if the atomic tough love was unwarranted there. :)

We totally understand it's not about having another boy. We totally get that. It's that idea of NEVER. Of that door closing forever, but at the same time you ahve to live in the real world and that you could wait forever and "ruin" (not that your family would be ruined, but that you wouldn't have the spacing you want) your family ideal over something that might not ever happen anyway - IKYKWIM. You could wait 10 years and still get a boy then. I just hope you can take a step back and understand you're surrounded by tons of ladies who nailed that 3 day cutoff and got a boy so please don't take it so seriously. You don't need to give it up, but neither should you be getting upset if it doesn't work out. One of the most important lessons that I have learned from this process, is just as you say about control. It may even be that the more we fight to BE in control, we may end up passing by opportunities where God/luck/the universe was lending us a hand.

Swaying is kinda like an iceberg, where the stuff we see and control is just this teensy bit and then under the water there is this massive enormous thing. So we may end up waiting and waiting for everything above the surface to fall into place, but in the meantime we pass by months where for all we know, literally every single thing that we cannot see may be pink-friendly. Control what you can control, and then at the end of it you have to walk forward eventually in faith or in hope as per your belief system. :)

Love the tip of the iceberg analogy atomic!

I hope it's ok to bump mon this thread, I was curious do you believe atomic and others that along with LE and 1 attempt, you should also do the jump and dump ( sounds horrible saying!)? Anything else you would add, I know Sudafed is a no no, but Benadryl? No douch because it's decreases conception but does it work?

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Originally Posted by Traci25

I hope it's ok to bump mon this thread, I was curious do you believe atomic and others that along with LE and 1 attempt, you should also do the jump and dump ( sounds horrible saying!)? Anything else you would add, I know Sudafed is a no no, but Benadryl? No douch because it's decreases conception but does it work?

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Jump and dump has seemed to add something in statistics so I'd give it a shot at the start.

Benadryl and other antihistamine have been neutral. Cuts odds conception, doesn't seem to help.

Douching, I believe only appears to work becuase it's done with one attempt. I think the apparent success in our stats (which is very small sample size BTW) is deceiving because the one attempt sways so much. I saw tons of people douche like madwomen and get boys doing that and it causes tons of trouble with infections and stuff.

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Originally Posted by Complex Emotions

Thank you Atomic, the iceberg metaphor is insightful.

I'm not there yet, I'm still trying to find a way to walk in faith with this. Not the faith that our baby would be a girl, but the faith that our baby would be the right baby meant for our family. And faith in myself, that I would be able to get past my dark feelings if things don't go the way that some part of me feels like I need them to. Faith that I can find a way to stop obsessing over something may not be meant-to-be for our family. For now I will keep searching for clarity.

What do you think, now, about February? My big nightmare scenario is living in a sway limbo until menopause... never ready to get pregnant but never finding a way to give up the sway either...

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Yes exactly! That's exactly what I mean. No matter what the outcome, it WILL be ok. That's the faith element in it.

I can't say about February. I can't decide that for people and I feel like it would honestly be better to flip a coin and do what the coin says.

I actually recommend 1200-1600 for pink, 2000 for blue (that's micrograms, not milligrams) THe reason I do that, is not because I"m trying to be different or quirky, it's because I researched it thoroughly and based on studies that is the safest amount for you guys to be taking while on a somewhat restricted diet. 1000 is ok if that's the way it works out with your dose though.

EVeryone takes 400 because that is the barest minimum. That is the amount for women of childbearing age JUST IN CASE they conceive. IT is the "if I mention this than no one can sue me" amount. But I have seen babies with neural tube defects conceived at that level. I had a baby with an NTD at 800 mcg folic acid, probably because I was drinking green tea at the same time (there are many things that actually block folic acid). Many sources recommend 800-1000 mcg folate for any women planning a pregnancy and these are women on a normal diet and taking prenatals as well. I think that the 1200-1600 mcg is best for you guys partly becaue your diet is more restrictive, and partly becaue you're not on prenatals (some other B vitamins help folic acid to be used better by the body)

The difference between 800 and 1000 is miniscule. If you think you are somehow preventing twin pregnancy by cutting back on 200 mcg folic acid, I'm sorry but that just isn't the way it works. They actually have studied if folic acid causes twinning and they found that it did NOT. What it does do, is ensures that both babies in a twin pregnancy develop normally and stay stuck. Many people who conceive twins end up losing one or both, and the folic acid may help prevent that from happening. So not that it is making more twins happen, but that it is enabling more twin pregnancies to work out.

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Originally Posted by Complex Emotions

My husband surprised me a few days ago when I was joking around about going high tech for a daughter and he told me "You know I don't care about money. If that's what you need us to do, we could do it..." He's so hopeful about having a second baby.

Now I keep asking myself if I really would do IVF/PGD... but I don't think I could move forward on it. We sort of have the money, but it's money that was really hard to come by. We think of it as our family emergency fund. Both my husband and I are in competitive, relatively low paying fields where it's not easy for us to set aside any extra for savings and there's a real possibility of unemployment, so if we spent that money on IVF/PDG I don't know when we'd be able to set aside a decent emergency fund again. We'll probably need to spend a significant portion of it just for the costs of having the second child, let alone using it up for elective high tech expenses. The thought of how vulnerable we would be financially, compounded with the thought of how guilty I would feel for using family money that way... especially if it didn't even work!

Then, in addition to the financial stress, the IVF process is very scary to me. Only one of my friends has done it, not for gender reasons at all but because that was their only way to have a baby. Their child is SO happy and wonderful, but does have health concerns. I know the statistics say IVF is no more likely to cause birth defects than natural conception, but on the off chance that our child would have health problems I don't believe I'd be able to handle the guilt.

If I knew for sure that the choice was either have a second son or go high tech for a daughter, and I also knew the process would 100% work and she would be healthy... well maybe then I would be able to do it. But there's still a chance we could have a daughter with natural conception, and there's a chance that the IVF wouldn't work at all, or that she'd be unhealthy in some way... I just don't think those are odds I can accept at this point in my life.

There's a little scenario for the future I've been thinking about... if we did have a second boy and if my gender anxiety/disappointment feelings didn't go away or get better in time, and if money got to be less of an issue for us, and if the technology continues to improve over the years, well maybe then in my early forties we could take the high tech chance for a daughter. At that age I know it would be unlikely to work, but it's a comforting little fantasy that takes the edge off.

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I just read through this whole string of posts about your situation and I can very much relate. I'm a bit different, with two boys already, I'm 40 AND my husband had a vasectomy after our second due to some really tough health stuff the four of us went through, but, only a year after the V I'm here - having the exact same internal debate you guys are.

It's all so much to think about.

I do have to say that over the past few weeks/months/years as I've been processing things and thinking about life in general I've found this sort of comfort by looking back on this journey and seeing that everything really does work out the way it's meant to and sometimes those things that are the most incredible blessings actually fall in your lap without any warning and when you least expect it. We really are so limited in the control we have and even more, what is most important is how we deal with setbacks and those things out of our control....not how much we 'get what we want'. I wish I could take my own thoughts and musings to heart more than I do....I feel so much in tune with your complex emotions...

I wish you peace on this journey, I have a feeling you guys will find the right solution for your family with all the thought and care you are putting into this. Best wishes and please keep us posted. I will be following along.

If HT is on the table, I recommend at least looking into it. Because what may happen in that you end up back here ANYWAY with another little dude in tow trying to work out logistics for that. Time is not our friend in HT and the odds of success only decline, the idea that you can go HT in your early 40's is propagated by celebs who have either used donated/or prefrozen eggs, or did a dozen cycles.

HT now, sway later. If it doesn't work out, you absolutely CAN sway in your 40's it's wayyyy easier than HT in your 40's.

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Originally Posted by Sweetplum

I just read through this whole string of posts about your situation and I can very much relate. I'm a bit different, with two boys already, I'm 40 AND my husband had a vasectomy after our second due to some really tough health stuff the four of us went through, but, only a year after the V I'm here - having the exact same internal debate you guys are.

It's all so much to think about.

I do have to say that over the past few weeks/months/years as I've been processing things and thinking about life in general I've found this sort of comfort by looking back on this journey and seeing that everything really does work out the way it's meant to and sometimes those things that are the most incredible blessings actually fall in your lap without any warning and when you least expect it. We really are so limited in the control we have and even more, what is most important is how we deal with setbacks and those things out of our control....not how much we 'get what we want'. I wish I could take my own thoughts and musings to heart more than I do....I feel so much in tune with your complex emotions...

I wish you peace on this journey, I have a feeling you guys will find the right solution for your family with all the thought and care you are putting into this. Best wishes and please keep us posted. I will be following along.

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:agree: totally and the journey, when you look back on it, you realize, wow, wouldn't change a thing. My DS 4 is my doppelganger, my smartypants, and a great kid (as I was writing this he said "I spy something beautiful and she's typing on the computer.") :heart:!! My 3rd is my husband's best buddy and soo adorably handsome. My 2nd is the most amazing and supportive guy and my bestest friend. I just wouldn't change that at all (and none of that of course takes away from my first who I wanted to be a boy with every fiber of my being, was just lucky enough to get him and love him to the moon and back) . My daughter isn't a replacement for what these guys brought into my lives.

I don't really have much to say except I love, love everything you just said atomic! So sweet!