All of our testing has come back normal. I feel cursed.
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All of our testing has come back normal. I feel cursed.
I'm glad your tests are normal but at the same time I understand the frustration. I was in a similar situation last year with three losses and completely normal tests (and we had the whole shebang done, including a very pricey genetic screening the RE recommended). I don't really know what to say other than I'm sorry and I hope you're able to conceive a sticky baby soon. Hugs!
Throwaway, just wanted to send hugs... Thinking of you! [emoji170]
https://www.fertilityfriend.com/home/24dd4d
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I swear people don't understand this but it's almost worse when they don't find anything than when they do. :/
I'm so sorry. I know it's hard right now but it's good news. We don't want there to be a problem, we want everything to be perfect and normal and then we've just had some bad luck. :heart:
This will happen.
Yeah, I am the same. At least if we found an issue, we'd know what we're up against. Now...
Karotyping and egg quality seems to point to this not being anything wrong with the eggs, but something wrong with me. I was so hopeful after that surgery. I am fully miscarrying now though so yet another loss in my heart.
I"m so sorry. I don't even have the words.
My heart is so sad for you TP.
I'm sorry this is happening to you Throwaway_Panther
Throwaway_panther I'm sorry. Life can be so cruel x
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We got my husband's semen analysis -- that I pushed for -- back.
It looks like it's all been him. And boy does he ever have some girl sperm...
Well at least we have some answers!
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[emoji254]Thank you Gender Dreaming for our precious little girl![emoji254]
I just am sitting here baffled. If I hadn't pushed for this analysis myself, I'd have just been thrown on drugs.
But if anything, I'm even sadder. I've been working so hard and feeling so depressed, and it looks like it might not even be me.
His count is 23.9 million, though he apparently missed the cup (... sigh), so we're going to do another SA again with a condom to be more accurate. That high fever from August is still in the back of my head, too. Viscosity and aglutination are both abnormal at 3. Motility is 65%, but of that 65% 45% are non progressive.
Specifically being told we'd have trouble conceiving. So wtf that we have been, even when not trying?
But then his morphology is 14%... but of all the 85 sperm that were wonky, they all had head issues prompting further analysis for a possible genetic or chromosomal issue.
So I'm just at a loss. I feel sad... sad I can't control this, sad I've spent SO much time swaying and stressing for something that truly has been fruitless.
Before DD, DH was smoking, depressed. I was starving myself, overexercising and subsisting on coffee and alcohol. Perfect baby first try -- and I spent so much time hating life because she wasn't the boy I wanted.
Now I eat well, do yoga and acupuncture, take a shitton if supplements, DH is the healthiest he's ever been between diet, exercise, supplements and his vitals... and for what?
I just can't believe the hand I keep getting dealt. Did two years really make that much of a difference for his sperm age? Studies keep saying over 35 matters, but holy hell... his sperm has some real issues.
I was still desperately looking for hope that we could try naturally. Now it looks like IVF really is our only option.
Hang in there sweetie! That is a hard blow and really makes you wonder! I’m hopeful that a repeat SA will give a much clearer picture. Let’s not discredit what his high fever may have caused, either. When my DH has his SA done back when we were trying for our 3rd child, they made him skip a month before they would check his sperm after being sick.
I know it feels like everything is gaining up on you. It’s hard to not take it personally, but please don’t! Shit like this happens and while it sucks, don’t beat yourself up over it. You’re doing the best you can and have been! Both you and your DH have made some awesome gains and lifestyle choices that are worth celebrating! While it seems like your dream of having a son seems so far away, it may very well be right around the corner! All of this may have had to happen for him to come to you! While we don’t have a crystal ball, I can tell you it will happen. I don’t know when, but if I can get pregnant with an FSH of 45, and AMH of 0, you most certainly can get pregnant too! Let’s just suspend our thoughts for a bit until we can get a more accurate SA done, ok? Keep up the good work you’ve come so far to set yourself back now!
(((Huge Hugs)))
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TP i am so glad they found this before you started on unnecessary drugs, i agree with XX the SA needs repeating and then you can compare the results, fingers crossed things will look better due to the fever being further out of his system and him not missing the cup!!
i must admit i really dont know anything about sperm stats but you said he seems to have lots of girl swimmers? i thought all men were pretty much 50/50? im sorry if this seems a really ignorant question
i really hope you can get answers and form a solid plan so that you can really move forward towards getting your boy, you know that things with you are all A-ok which is so positive even though it may not feel that way right now :heart: and fingers crossed this repeat SA brings a more accurate (and better) picture xx
I'm sorry if you've already said this but has your DH had genetic testing done? I know you said you have but I don't know if that included your DH. My husband and I both had an extensive genetic panel called inherigen through genpath. It may be worth looking into if his SA came back with chromosomal abnormalities. It's $5k and insurance may not cover it but like I said, it may be worth doing since it looks at practically everything you can think of genetically speaking. I also agree with having the SA repeated and if it's still abnormal, asking about doing inherigen (if you haven't already).
His sperm was abnormally viscous and agglutinized, plus messed up motility and barely normal count, so that's why I think of it as girl sperm :/
He did have a karyotype done but it came back normal!! Some loss sites did say that sometimes further testing needs to be done to find chromsomal stuff, like micro FISH? But in the meantime, I'm still waiting for almost 2 weeks to see my RE :(
Burokoam and I were talking, and she thinks an IUI might be the next best step maybe? They can do a wash for the better quality sperm I know, and it sways blue right? But is his sperm too far gone? :(
Throwaway_panther I'm only new to this site but I really feel for you. Have absolutely no advice. I've had 3 mmc's and I'm hearing the problem may sit with me (not from medical team....yet). It's such a horrible, hard, gut wrenching time when all we want is to have and mind our babies! I truly wish you the best and that the results come back in your favour. Xx
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Wait a minute here - he had normal chromosomes?
Ok I think we need to take a breath here and think this out. The sperm parameters you are describing (IMVHO) do not explain recurrent losses. he wouldn't be getting u pregnant again and again if this is a motility and semen consistency thing. I think you're mentioning that as an indicator that something else is probably wrong here chromosomally but it very well may not be. I am concerned for the same reason that Nuthin was, that there could be some sort of immune system interaction (almost like an allergy) between what he is bringing to the table (the agglutination can sometimes indicate he has antibodies against his own sperm)
I understand that you are under the care of an RE and everything. I get that. But Dr. B is the best that there is so just keep it in mind that you may want to do some investigation into the idea that this is some sort of autoimmune situation. This would also explain why you had no prob. your first pregnancy - sometimes couples have no issues with their first pregnancy and then in subsequent pregnancies your immune system is more worked up than it was. It's just something to keep in mind, a lead to keep in the back of your head to investigate along the way.
I think what nuthin was driving at is that she doesn't want you guys to proceed with IVF/PGD under the assumption that it's for sure chromosomal when it may not be because if it is immunological that could end up causing troubles even more so in an IVF round. FX.
I do think high viscosity for a males will ultimately be linked to more girl offspring just like if a woman's cervical mucus is thick it is more hostile to Sperm. I'd be curious to know in the grand scheme of things if it plays more of a part than myones aware of at the moment. Thin seminal fluid and thin cm = heavy boy conditions with right diet and excersise, thick for both equating to more girl offspring with a pink friendlier diet.. and the well mixed/blended gender families probably have a toss up of each partner having one or the other, maybe even at different times.
It's important to note that the kind of damage they are seeing is not from
His cold a month back IMO.
I am standing my ground that I don't care how or why it has been happening but your body is attacking the babies as intruders. The thing is it doesn't have to be the baby that has your uterus all upset and irritable. It can be your body responding to the antibodie issues in his sperm and if it angry and killing the sperm off for being weird, no matter what the reason is, it will also make your uterus too angry to let a healthy normal chromosome baby of either gender implant and stay. If your body senses 'danger' in your uterus it's not going to differentiate between the baby or the sperm. You are the first person to question an "infection" of some kind this last cycle because even after the progesterone was stopped your temp at one point spiked high enough you looked like you were about to develop a fever.
We know I don't have the antibodies for sure since IGA, IGG and IGM were all tested, but his SA results still aren't all back so that'll be another wait. There is some research saying that these early results for DH ARE linked to losses as well as difficulty conceiving.
The infection part on my end, I'm wondering if that last spike in temp was the last try to save that embryo. My white blood cell count was noted as fine before too (remember, I had all my initial bloodwork done during that 4th loss!).
But now that I found a study showing specifically sons of formerly infertile couples have more issues conceiving, I'm banging my head against a wall. Yet his brother (who had to see an RE because they took over a year to conceieve, and also had two losses) did end up having 3 kids (BGB).
I told you guys the weird shit seems to happen to me! Now I guess it's rubbed off on DH!
TP im in no position to offer real advice here i just truly hope you guys get to the bottom of this, i want nothing more than to see you get your boy :heart: you are one of just a few people on this site who i feel really understands the level of GD that i myself went through (although with the opposite gender) reading your posts helped me in feeling like i wasnt alone in how extreme my own GD was.
i dont know if this will be of any help but a friend of mine has 3 children with her partner GBG, however.. he was previously married for around 10 years to another lady i also know, they tried for years to get pregnant-nothing, had ALL the tests done, she was normal but they got told that he was completely 100% infertile, sperm count as bad as it gets type thing.
long story short..they divorce in the end and he meets my other friend, shortly after shes pregnant (NOT planned) baby 100% is his and they have gone on to have 2 more babies (all unplanned so defo no IVF or other treatments)
i have no idea exactly how this has happened but just thought id share since you mentioned formerly infertile couples.
i agree with waiting on the IVF until you have more answers, i know its the last thing you want to hear but it would be awful for you to go through full blown IVF and still have it end in losses, you CAN carry a baby to term, there WILL be an answer to all of this, stay strong we are all with you 100% xx
Well I'm pregnant again. Now we see how long this one lasts since my progesterone was 8.33 at 6DPO and I'm already having weird temps and weird HPTs. We are being deemed unexplained RPL -- DH's SA didn't make two REs bat an eye, my RE considers low progesterone an effect and not a cause of loss (despite recommending everyone go on the supplements?), and she even said maybe it's an egg issue despite ALL my numbers being really good and me being 28 and healthy...
Second RE recommended IVF with PGS but said we could try one medicated cycle too... but at this point how much heartbreak am I going to put myself through?
Well, apparently a lot, since here I am.
Oh TP I hope this babe is a sticky one for you. It's so unfair how much heartbreak you've gone through. My RE once had a couple that were otherwise healthy people but the wife had 6 losses in a row before finally having a healthy baby. No explanation was found. She said some people just have awful luck. I think regarding the progesterone, it's usually low because the pregnancy isn't viable, not it's low and therefore causing losses. I think ivf is a good option for you especially since there's no explanation for your miscarriages. I really really hope though that this pregnancy sticks.
(((Huge Hugs))) TP! I’m hoping and praying with everything I have that this is your sticky bean 🤞🏻[emoji1317]!!
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[emoji254]Thank you Gender Dreaming for our precious little girl![emoji254]
From what I've read, women under 35 with RPL have the same success rates with IVF and PGS as they do 'expectant management'... so I thin that's why I thought, "Maybe just one more time..."Quote:
Originally Posted by ksmom
Especially since I fuly weaned DD and my O moved up 4 days from CD 19 to CD 15!
Congratulations to you! Wishing u a happy healthy 9 months [emoji170]
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At least if you did do ivf with pgd you'd know you're putting in a healthy embryo. I'm sure it would still be scary though, not knowing if it's going to work or not.
Congratulations TP and fingers crossed this is the one!! i know a few people who similar to ksmom's example had multiple losses back to back and then went on to have healthy and uncomplicated pregnancies after, as far as i am aware they also never got answers.
a more detailed example i can give is one of my good friends who lost 7 babies in a row trying for number 1 :( all early losses and never an answer found, she went on to have a healthy boy followed 3 years later by a healthy girl with no losses in between and neither were ivf, clearly something wasnt right during those 7 losses but it goes to show that whatever causes this doesn't always last forever in every case so lets stay positive :heart:
did your dh have a repeat SA done?
thinking of you and sending all the sticky blue dust there is xx
HCG at 12DPO came back negative. I still have very faint BFPs everytime I test, but they've never gotten darker than the 9DPO one. I still had hopes we could do this without IVF...
(((Huge Hugs))) My heart goes out to you TP!
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[emoji178]10/2017[emoji178]
[emoji254]Thank you Gender Dreaming for our precious little girl![emoji254]
I really believed I'd get my boy through swaying. I even had my hypothetical sway post planned out.
I'm heartbroken we have to go HT at all. I'll never be able to get the joy or hope from a positive test. My ability to get pregnant so easily is apparently a complete waste. Even sex has become just a constant reminder of loss. I even bargained with the universe that I'd have been fine with a girl in this last pregnancy. I'm so tired of all of this grief.
Since we will be using condoms from now on as we wait for my third IVF consult at the end of the month, I'm throwing in the towel for HE. Which makes me sad. Who knew the cure to my lifelong disordered eating was my desire for a boy? But I've read keto and even a 5% decrease in bodyweight has great results for IVF success, so I'll revert to what I do best: dieting. I can already feel the familiar whisper of my ED as I plan out my meals everyday. But what else can I do? I underate the last two days just out of depression, and I slip so easily back into it I almost laugh.
Now set in the fears that I won't even get my boy through HT...
TP your journey has been such a rollercoaster to follow, I can not imagine how difficult it must have been to live at times.
I am sorry the swaying part of your journey is over and wish you the best of luck as you move onto ivf. I will miss having you as the fountain on knowledge in the blue swaying world.
I hope your sticky (blue) bean is not too far off and dare I hope to perhaps be in a due date group with you in the not too distant future.
On a side note I hope you are able to stay healthy and happy with your eating. I have not always been the healthiest with my eating habits but I am becoming very aware of what I can teach my daughters in terms of both good/bad relationships with food and their bodies.
Hugs to you.
Just keep in mind, Panther, that too low in weight and too few carbs is also not good. I don't want you to slip back into disordered eating here because that's not going to help anything at all.
Agh i never caught up to this thread since it had so many responses - I'm sorry it didn't work out this time but I have high hopes for IVF. ((((hugs)))))
THIS!Quote:
Originally Posted by atomic sagebrush
If you already have a normal BMI you do not need to lose weight for HT. Don't over think it and go crazy planning perfect meals or calorie/carb/protein counting. Just eat a normal sensible diet, fruits, vegetables etc. and don't be afraid to indulge in the odd treat from time to time! It truly won't make or break things.
devastated to see this TP :( it has been such a long and heartbreaking journey for you, i still truly hope to see a post from you announcing your healthy baby boy :heart:
ivf is not the end of the road it is a new route towards your end destination of a healthy baby boy, wishing you all the strength, luck and happiness there is as you start on this new path and i would love to see updates from you if you still want to post them xx
I'm so sorry you're going through all this TP. When I first found this site you were still pregnant with your daughter and I remember many of your posts. You've gone through so much to try to get your son. I really hope that HT works out for you and that one day you'll have your son in your arms and be able to look back on this as a dark time in your life that's behind you. :heart:
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Thought I'd update just to vent I guess.
We just had a spectacularly unsuccessful cycle of IVF. We have only 2 blastocytes to check, and after a discussion with the embryologist, it's looking like official our losses have been because of a male factor. My eggs looked great, all 9 that were mature fertilized (out of 16 eggs, but we think the drop off there was because they barely stimmed me!) and were great until Day 3. Then after that they started to drop off, which is often a sperm issue.
His sperm count in the sample was apparently only 2.9 million. If ICSI wasn't already the standard, they would have been doing it for sure. But even then, ICSI is just literally picking out what looks the best and has okay heads and tails. If you've followed my story, you might remember his semen analysis (that I pushed for) in October was already wonky -- unexpectdly abnormal and low normal numbers. Total count then was 23.9 million. So despite supplements, less caffeine and alcohol, and his continued healthiness, his numbers have only dropped.
Next step would be to investigate sperm DNA fragmentation, a possible varicocele, etc. Husband is refusing to listen to any of this. He refuses to acknowledge this is the issue and says it's me "just pushing for an answer." But we got the answer :/
I don't know what to do. If there's any semblance of something in the universe that takes pity on me, I hope those blastocytes are normal, and I really hope they're boys. But I'm not holding my breath for either. I can't allow myself to feel any hope, not after how I've been chewed up these last several years.
Thanks for reading.
What is he taking?
Some of the stuff on the market is worse than nothing. I am super concerned about a drop off from 24 million to 3 million because that, to me, indicates something serious has changed between then and now. We need to get to the bottom of why this is and the first thing I'm suspicious of since many of the fertility supps have actually harmful things in them.
I have literally NEVER heard any embryologist worth their salt tell anyone the reason why their IVF did not succeed. They can't tell if an egg is good based on looking at it (if they could they'd just discard the bad eggs right at the start!) The fact is they do not know why these things happen and they should be and usually do investigate every possible angle because there is always room for improvement in other ways too - protocol, etc. I am feeling very very wary of a rush to judgement about why this has happened because I want you in with your best chances and deciding that it's this thing or that thing when they really don't know why.
Hugest hugs and please don't hesitate to get back to me about the supps, because something has changed and we need to know what it is.