Big hugs to you and wishing you a BFP soon!
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Big hugs to you and wishing you a BFP soon!
I have not been in touch for a long time. Unfortunately, there is no good news. I am still not pregnant. I am now in cycle #10, I can hardly believe it myself. Never would have thought this would happen. I'm not handling this very well at the moment. There is a bit of panic rising about whether I can even get pregnant again - regardless of gender.
My motivation for the Sway is very low. I've given up a lot of things. I am no longer dieting strictly and I have gained 2.5 kg. I am currently trying to lose this weight, but not so much because of the Sway, but because we are going on vacation soon and I need to show myself to the world in a bikini [emoji1]. I am only doing exercises irregularly. Maybe 3-5 days a week. Motivation is gone. I can't and don't want to anymore. It was a burden for me to force myself to exercise every day. I drink coffee and alcohol daily, I skip breakfast, but that's all I do anymore. I don't have the power to do the Sway anymore. It has limited me so much in the past year and has often been a burden for me. It was OK for me because I was doing it for my girl. But now I look at it realistically that I'm sure I won't get pregnant anytime soon and I also have to think about my mental health, so I've kept the Sway to a minimum. We have a great summer ahead of us, we have two big vacations planned and I want to enjoy them completely without limiting food, counting calories and forcing myself to exercise. Not getting pregnant is hard enough, so at least I want to enjoy life.
The decision to give up the Sway has not been easy for me. I still want a girl so badly! And if I knew I would get pregnant in 3-4 cycles at the latest, I would definitely keep going through with it! But I don't know and the chance of getting pregnant is getting smaller and smaller. So I'm giving up on it. It's hard to admit it to myself, but I didn't have the strength anymore for the strict sway I did for so many months.
I escalated a bit when eating in the last few weeks because I was so tired of everything, and I immediately gained 2.5 kg, but there I have now put the brakes back on. I want to lose the 2.5 kg again (mainly because of the thing with the bikini [emoji6]), and after that I try to keep the weight and stay in the limits as often as possible, but I won't strictly count calories and fat anymore.
But now to the little news: My husband had a sperm analysis. Everything is in order. The values were very good. So we recently went to the fertility clinic. There they did another sperm analysis, the result is still pending. They also checked my hormones again and also those of my husband, the result is also still pending. But I assume that everything will be okay again. Since I measure my BBT, I know that I ovulate every cycle. I don't think it's because of the hormones that I can't get pregnant. But it doesn't seem to be my husband's fault either, his sperm are in great shape.
I will have a laparoscopy and uteroscopy, this is what the fertility clinic recommended as well. I was born with omphalocele, and had many abdominal surgeries as a baby, so it may well be that my reproductive organs have a problem. However, I already have a child and have been pregnant?! We will see. Also, in my first pregnancy I had placenta accreta, had a curettage after birth with high blood loss. Unfortunately, it is quite possible that this will result in adhesions in the uterus that prevent pregnancy. This scares me quite a bit, the diagnosis would be hard because I may then never be able to get pregnant again. So it's uncertain if and how it will go on... That really scares me. I'm so scared of never having another child. I want a sibling so badly for my son [emoji20]. And I want a girl so so so so bad! But this whole thing tells me that I want a child first, whether it's a boy or a girl - and I'd love to have a second boy before I don't have a second child at all.
Unfortunately, everything takes quite a long time with the appointments, and because of our vacations we are also somewhat tied up in time, plus the laparoscopy may only be done in the first half of the cycle. Unfortunately, I don't expect my surgery to take place before September. I have a first appointment to talk to the doctor at the end of June, then I will know more. It makes me sad that it is all taking so long now.... I certainly don't expect to get pregnant in the next few cycles, I definitely suspect that there really is an organic cause and that I can't get pregnant at the moment. The long time of waiting until I have the result and hopefully my problems can be fixed in surgery is bad for me.
We will of course continue to try to get pregnant, but honestly, I can't see that happening anymore. I'm also tired of doing OPKs. I only measure BBT to confirm ovulation. We try to do BDs on an e4D schedule, but we don't stick to it super strictly anymore. Sometimes we do it every other day or so [emoji6].
Thank you for sharing. I am so sorry you are going though this. I really hope you get a BFP soon. Big hug to you!!!
Can you please bump this for me?? I set it aside wanting to have enough time to give you a good reply, but it's gotten late here.
Hey Lanini, big hugs to you! I feel we are in the exact same boat. I’ve given up diet pretty much and alcohol and skipping breakfast, just coffee and a few exercises a week. Every month I am so disappointed yet relieved at the same time because I felt I’d def get a boy with my level of commitment lol. But it is how it is and like you said we don’t know how much longer this will drag on and something is def better than nothing. But alot of people conceive on holidays when they are distracted and relaxed, so you never know! Best of luck and keep us updated!
Lanini, I'm so sorry to hear you haven't conceived yet.
The next step is definitely to take a closer look just to rule out anything that may be physically preventing pregnancy. You can absolutely have had a child and then an issue arises after that (particularly with the placenta accretia in the mix) and it would be good to rule that out.
Did you ever try the e4d plus one attempt?? (edited to add, after I posted this I see you did try the e4d plus one, but I do urge you to continue e4d longer than you think you need to)
Did you ever try the Sperm Meets Egg Plan? While having sex more often is perfectly ok and giving up the pattern if you want to, the reason to be slightly more regimented in your approach is to ensure you're having ENOUGH sex. Just having sex "whenever" even if it's every other day is honestly not a good way to conceive. People who go for every other day often end up having attempts like O-1 and O-3 (and O-3 is for many people a useless attempt) or O-4 and O-2 (O-4 is not a viable attempt the vast majority of the time) and that is one attempt!! So the absolutely first thing I'd recommend is trying either e4d plus one more attempt at positive OPK OR if you feel you've given that a good try, SMEP if you'd like. This will be by far and away a better chance of conception for you than continuing on with e4d alone (I would not have recommended that, would have suggested adding attempts before you've gotten as frustrated as you are!!!), doing every other day, or just having random attempts when you're in the mood.
Sperm meets egg plan is here: https://thespermmeetseggplan.com/the...eets-egg-plan/
Please don't hesitate to get in touch with me. I have many tricks to help conception, to make diet and exercise easier, and just in general can give you more support.
Thank you for your kind words @treens and @onelittlewish.
I am trying to accept the situation and most of the time I am quite ok with not being pregnant yet. But sometimes I have sad moments and I get more and more scared that I won't get pregnant at all. I don't have the strength and motivation to do the strict Sway. I do as much as I can and what I can integrate into my everyday life. More is not possible at the moment. Some exercise, some diet, coffee and alcohol. My problem at the moment is simply that I think "I won't get pregnant anyway" and therefore have no motivation anymore. Maybe I'll manage better once my laparoscopy is done and our vacations are over.
@onlittlewish: I've been following your thread in between and have often thought that we really are in the same boat. Why is this all just so hard? All we want is a daughter, why is it made so hard for us?
@atomic: Thanks for your reply too and for offering to ask for your advice more often. I message so less often because all the thoughts about the Sway and the whole baby thing don't do me so much good and often hurt me and then I just don't want to think about it and actively deal with it.
We only did the first cycle one attempt, and the following two cycles e4D. After that we have already done 5 cycles of e4D + 1 attempt at positive OPK and additionally 1 cycle with three attempts in a row after positive OKP, which is then similar to SMEP.
This cycle we will then do the SMEP plan completely. Today I am on cycle day 10, but unfortunately I still don't have hope that I will conceive. It is worth a try. Even though I know that because I have gained weight, it will certainly sway blue. If I really get pregnant, I'm sure I'll be annoyed that I dared. But my hope is so low that I take the risk.
I hope you get your BFP this cycle and I can follow your steps! I also tried to avoid forums for a while thinking that it will make me less stressed but I still needed someone to talk to and when the people in my real life couldn't understand my frustration I was left more distressed. So here I am again not looking for ways to perfect my sway or to see what works and what not but just knowing that there's a group of people here doing the same things and going through the same journey gives me peace of mind. Good luck and if you need some chat we are always here :wink:
Dear onelittlewish, I want to thank you for your kind message. I'm having a really hard time dealing with the Sway right now and I feel like it's not doing my mental health any good. But I have thought of you several times and also wish you with all my heart that you will get your BFP soon.
I have the meeting with the doctor from the fertility clinic this afternoon and I will find out the results of the second sperm analysis and blood work. I'm a little excited, but don't think we'll get any bad news since everything was good at the first test. I actually rather suspect that it is due to adhesions in my abdomen or my uterus. But I guess it will be several months before I get a result there.
My ovulation is over, I am 6 DPO today. We did the SMEP plan, knowing full well that this will certainly sway very blue in conjunction with my weight gain. But since I have no hope of getting pregnant anyway, I took the risk. So I am just waiting for AF. We fly out on Sunday for the first of our vacations and I'm really looking forward to that, hoping to clear my head well and not think so much about the Sway and all that stuff.
Keep us updated! I am 1-2dpo and I don't think we did well this cycle. Given hubby's sperm condition and him not fully onboard with the life style changes & timing I don't think we have a good chance this cycle...but I am pretty chilled so all good because I know it will take a while and we need to take baby steps at a time. Enjoy your holiday to the max, you deserve it!
If the strict sway is too much it is fine to just relax in all the areas it's bothering you the most. People assume that if they can't do everything, they may as well do nothing, and that just isn't the case. It is fine to relax in many areas and just keep with what feels right to you.
What did you find out at the doctor's office yesterday??
Well, our first vacation is over. It was a great time without much thought of the Sway. That was good.
During the conversation with the doctor it came out that everything is fine. My hormone levels are all good. The sperm analysis was also OK. The doctor said the levels were in the normal range. Although the doctor said that the values were not first-class but the sperm should definitely be good enough to conceive. Unfortunately, I don't have the exact values, but I trust the doctor's statement. It is also the same statement as the first analysis from another doctor.
Today I had an appointment with another doctor for the laparoscopy and hysteroscopy consultation. I have an appointment for the surgery at the end of July. So I have to keep waiting. All this waiting is so hard.
Of course I didn't get pregnant in the 10th cycle either. Even if I don't have much hope anymore, I'm still a little sad and the fear that I'll never get pregnant again is growing. I'm not doing any Sway at the moment. No exercises, little diet, less coffee and alcohol. I really can't do it at the moment. Especially now, after the vacation, I can no longer find the beginning. I hope to start again in a few days. And then I hope that after the surgery my chances of getting pregnant will be good and that by then I will be so far back in the Sway that my chances of having a girl will be good again.
We are now in the 11th cycle. We will try e4D + 1 again. We did SMEP last cycle and it was a bit exhausting for us. Since I still didn't get pregnant, we will do e4D+1 again. This will be easier for us. Besides, I no longer expect to get pregnant just like that anyway.
Oh good, I'm glad you had a nice holiday.
That's wonderful news that nothing is off with the sperm or hormones. I don't need the exact values, I agree that crosses the concern with sperm health off our worry list. Keep me posted about the
So have you guys been doing anything that you can think of, something that seems minor like a jump and dump or shallow release? Do you use any cleansers or wipes? And are you using any lubricants? (sorry if I have already asked this, but sometimes people forget to mention things like that so I just want to be on the safe side) Shallow release in particular, is something that people keep doing for a very long time but has been a massive cause of not conceiving.
if you want, we may want to consider adding in guaifenesin to improve cervical mucus. This is somewhat boy friendly, but it might help conception and people can still get girls while using it.
I'm 11DPO today and took a test today for the first time in many cycles. Negative. That was cycle number 11. Now I can be sure that my laparoscopy will definitely take place in 2 weeks. I would have wished so much for a miracle that would spare me the surgery. At least my motivation is back and I've completely started to Sway again with diet, exercise, alcohol and coffee. Maybe I'll take Femara again after my laparoscopy, depending on the result.
I'm quite scared of the result of the operation. No matter what result awaits me, it will be tough for me. Even if everything is fine, I'm not happy because I still haven't gotten pregnant for a full year and there must be a reason. But I'm even more afraid of the option that something will be found. How will things go for me then? My biggest fear is that it is Asherman Syndrome and it will take a long time to treat with multiple surgeries with no guarantee of success. Unfortunately, it's possible that it's Asherman syndrome because of my postpartum curretage, because of my placenta accreta. Please keep your fingers crossed for me on July 29th.
I don't think we did anything to prevent conception. Actually, we didn't do much different than when I conceived my son. I don't jump and dump, I even lie down for a long time, sometimes on my back and sometimes on my stomach. We're not doing a shallow realease, I think. My husband sometimes tends to flinch a little bit when he's ready. Don't know how else to describe it. It's not really a shallow release, though, the penetration isn't 'shallow', and he doesn't do it every time. I don't use any cleaners or wipes. Most cycles we didn't use lubes. For the last couple of cycles I've been using a lube that's supposed to help conceiving (which probably sways blue). It is a German product and is specifically designed to help conceive. We do not use lubricants which sway pink and make conception difficult. I should also mention that I have a lot of EWCM on my fertile days and don't think lubes are a thing for me.
I will get a product with guaifenesin. I think it's worth a try. Do I take it the full cycle or only on the fertile days? Or only on days with attempts?
I get constant questions about Asherman's Syndrome and no one has ever had it (except one woman who knew about it in advance and had a lot of fertility challenges to start with). It is possible given your history, but until you know for sure I'd try not to worry about it. If it was Asherman's, that would be good news anyway as it's treatable. I'll cross my fingers they don't find anything (or at least it's treatable!)
Ok good, it sounds like you are already doing everything I would suggest. I wouldn't worry about the "flinching" as that has nothing to do with it. (You would not believe the number of people in your situation, and I find out they're doing shallow release as a sway tactic all that time!) Yes please try adding in the guaifenesin! I'd have you take it starting after your period ends, and carry on till 3 days after you think you've ovulated. Most people don't need the full dose and see good effects with much smaller doses than the max (but the max is ok and safe to take too).
So, here is the update. I had my hysteroscopy and laparscopy yesterday. What can I say, everything is fine. My tubes are clear, my endometrium is normal, I don't have Asherman's syndrome. No diagnosis was found, everything is as it should be. It was tested for plasma cells, but the result is still in the lab.
So now I don't know what to do. We had the following checked: 2 x hormone levels from me, 1 x hormone levels from my husband, our chromosomes were tested, 2 x sperm analysis, laparoscopy, hysteroscopy, several cycle monitoring with ultrasound. All without findings. Sperm analysis showed that the values are in the norm, but rather on the lower edge. Does it make sense to pimp the sperm with supplements? Should I also take supplements myself? I am absolutely unsure how to proceed. I have an appointment at the fertility clinic next week for discussion. The fact is, we want to try the normal way for a few more cycles first and if I'm still not pregnant in 3, 4, cycles, we'll consider insemination, do you think that makes sense? Is it still possible to influence the gender a little bit with insemination? Because Fertilization still takes place naturally?
And what advice do you have on how we should try the next few cycles? I measure BBT, do OPKs, I definitely always ovulate, that was also evident in several ultrasounds. We tried with one attempt, with e4D, and quite often with e4D+1 (most cycles) and twice with SMEP. Without getting pregnant. I have a lot of EWCM on my fertile days, yet many cycles we used a lubricant meant specifically for conception. I took multiple cycles of Femara, multiple cycles of full dose and multiple cycles of half dose. No jump and dump, no shallow release, no "pink lube". I do exercises 6-7 days a week, drink 1-2 cups of coffee a day (before Sway I never drank coffee), I drink a glass of vodka a day, fiber after fatty meals, but diet is not going so well right now. I gained some weight in the last few weeks (I weigh between 51-52 kg, a few months ago it was 49 kg), but I do not eat breakfast, but at lunch and dinner I sometimes snack in between and often I eat again a little too much and too much fat, but I do not manage to motivate myself at the moment. I've been doing the Sway for a full year now and with the diet struggle I pretty much, I just don't get motivated anymore. I try hard, but it's not as strict as it was for a long time and often I do cheat or fall out of the pattern.
How should we try the next few cycles to continue to have a good chance of having a girl, but also increase the chance of conception? Under the point that we are now in cycle #12 and I am not pregnant yet. I'm so unsure and over questioned. Don't know what to do next. I really want a sibling for my son. But I also want a daughter. I don't know where the focus is myself: On the one hand I definitely want a baby no matter what gender, but on the other hand I still want to have a good chance of having a girl. Just because I didn't get pregnant after such a long time, my dream for a daughter didn't disappear.
Unfortunately, I was ovulating yesterday on the day of the surgery. Stupid timing. My OPK was positive at CD 12 in the evening and CD 13 in the morning. We had one attempt at CD 12 in the evening. I then had my surgery on CD 13 in the morning (yesterday). Today at CD 14 was my BBT rising. They flushed the tubes yesterday and also looked in the uterus so I think there was nothing left of my husband's swimmers so unfortunately there is zero chance this cycle. I am now trying to do the Sway as motivated as possible until the next cycle and then hope so much that I finally get pregnant! Do you think I should try another cycle with femara? I will also take the guaifenesin next cycle.
I know it doesn't feel like it, but that is great news! I know we all feel like "if only there was something obvious we could fix" but it's actually much better not to find anything obvious wrong that requires surgery to repair.
If your husband has normal range sperm, this isn't strictly necessary but if you wanted to give him a male fertility supplement like Proxeed or 1000 mg carnitine/500 mg arginine/100 mg coq10, plus Men's One a Day over 50 (this would be INSTEAD of Proxeed, not along with it) then that is fine. May help you conceive, even if it is slightly more blue friendly (altho we don't actually know that to be the case)
Have you had your nutrient levels tested?? If not, I would try that just to see - particularly Vit. D, iron, B12. If none of your levels are low, then there's no benefit to taking the supplements. DO NOT add in any herbal supplements or anything else without talking to me about it. Everything we're seeing here indicates this is not an issue that would be solved by supplements *unless you are found to have a deficiency*.
The insemination really doesn't work well. Rates of conception with IUI are lower by far than natural. You will still need to continue having sex on your own in addition to the IUI. So don't be tempted to just use the IUI as your attempt, have sex as well.
We believe IUI may be somewhat blue friendly (we think because the vaginal environment is bypassed and a lot of sperm that is already capacitated is inserted all at once) but people have still gotten girls with it. You may be given Clomid or Letrozole along with the IUI, and that may help sway pink.
Let's try leaving out the lubricant if you have a lot of EWCM already. EWCM is superior to those lubricants, even though they're better for conception than a pink friendly lube would be.
What is your height and what is your level of calories, protein, and fat intake? 49-52 kg is quite thin, depending on your height and if you're too thin, your body sometimes just won't seem to get pregnant. We need to make sure your body isn't just too "nervous" to conceive.
It is well past time to drop the fiber, didn't we talk about that already?? No more fiber. Let it go. You need those raw materials to make sex hormones.
How many months in total have you taken the letrozole?
I would keep going with either SMEP or e4d plus one. Since you do still want to sway I'd do e4d plus one.
Thank you for your reply Atomic.
First I answer all your questions:
I will give my husband the vitamins. Do you think it makes sense to give maybe half the dose? So that the sperm gets some support but maybe it doesn't sway as much blue? Does it make sense?
My nutrient levels were tested in October last year when we were on our second cycle. Vitamin D: 35.8 ng/ml, Ferritin: 36.2 ng/ml. B12 has not been tested.
Thanks for your words about the IUI. This helps me to classify this procedure better.
I will not take any more lube next cycle.
I am 158 cm tall and weigh 51-52 kg. The BMI is between 20 and 21 and therefore actually OK, right? When I got pregnant with my son, I weighed about 60 kg (BMI 24) and I ate a lot, very unhealthy and a lot of sweets. I was in a phase of gaining weight and therefore swayed blue without knowing it. From January 2021 to July 2021 I lost weight from 60 kg to 52 kg with a normal diet. In July 2021 I started the LE diet and lost weight by December 2021 until I weighed 48-49 kg. I've maintained this weight for a few months and since April/May 2022 it's been a constant up and down with gaining weight (no motivation for the diet) and losing weight (motivation is back), so my weight is between 51-52 kg most of the time, and that's also my feel-good weight.
Yes, I stopped taking Fiber for several months, by the time I was also off the diet and unmotivated for the Sway. I started fiber again a few weeks ago, but I really only took it to compensate when I was escalating in my food and eating extremely high fat. Unfortunately, I can't say exactly how many calories, fat and protein I'm eating because I'm so unmotivated with the diet right now that I don't even track it. But since I counted calories for a very long time, I can estimate it quite well, I think. I have days where I eat about 1500 kcal and about 40-50 g of fat. These are the good days! But then unfortunately I have far too many days where I eat out of control and then it's probably 2000-2500 kcal a day and 70-80 g fat. I know this is very bad for the pink sway and I'm trying to cut down on those days! Luckily they do too! And at least I haven't gained any more weight, I'm at about 51.5 kg for several weeks. I usually eat between 40-60 grams of protein per day. That's the only thing that always works.
I took letrozole for a total of 6 cycles. I used it in cycle 2, 3, 4, 5, 7 and 9. I think cycle 2, 3 and 4 I took the full dose and in cycle 5, 7 and 9 the half dose.
I think we'll try e4D+1 now. SMEP was not easy to do for us as my husband works in shifts. e4D fits better into our day.
I had an appointment at the fertility clinic today. My doctor said again that everything looks great and no abnormalities were found. Hormone levels were normal, sperm analysis was normal, laparoscopy and hysteroscopy were without abnormalities. She now recommended supporting the next cycle with hormone injections. I got a prescription for "Gonal F". As I don't know if this is known in the US, here is a translated excerpt: GONAL-f contains the active ingredient 'follitropin alfa'. Follitropin alfa is a “follicle stimulant hormone” (FSH) and belongs to the group of hormones known as “gonadotropins”. Do you know this drug and can you say something about whether it sways and if so, whether it is blue or pink? I think it's an alternative to Clomid or Femara, but in which way does ist sway? I'm a bit concerned that it might be a blue sway hormone. I would otherwise like to do this and I feel good about trying it with hormone support.
Hello Atomic, I bump this. I have to start Gonal F in a few days and would be happy if you could tell me something about it and if you know if and in what way it sways.
Oh gosh I'm so sorry, I read this and then since it was long, I must have closed without answering. Thanks for bumping.
I would just give him the full dose. I see no point in taking SOME nutrients (which could possibly sway blue) only to not take ENOUGH of them to help with conception.
Oh good, yes that's not a terrible BMI.
Ferritin seems a bit low, let's add in 30-60 mg iron 3x a week.
I don't want you back on the fiber. It's time to let that go. If you're not making enough of the right kind of hormones to conceive we need to eliminate that from the equation.
I would also let the letrozole go now too. That's long enough. I have had a few clients who, even though most people get pregnant easily on letrozole, did not seem to conceive while taking it. So since you're not getting pregnant for seemingly no reason, let's try without the letrozole.
:agree: to be honest I prefer e4d plus one anyway as I think it's much easier for people to succeed with it and the odds of conception are still good.
We don't know how Gonal sways. It very likely sways pink if it sways at all since it works similarly to Clomid and Letrozole, but I just haven't seen enough people use it to know for sure.
Thank you for your instructions. That helps me alot.
I'm on CD 9 today and have been injecting Gonal F in low doses since CD 2. An ultrasound was done today and my follicle is 16mm. I also have EWCM since today. Doctor took blood and said I'll get a call tomorrow when to induce ovulation with Ovitrelle and then my hubby and I should DTD the day after Ovitrelle. What would you advise me to do, should I follow this plan or should we have our attempt at a different time, or do you think we should have multiple attempts? Does it make sense to do e4D+1 even if ovulation is triggered by injection or should we have only one BD after the injection?
Unfortunately, I've gained a little weight again because we were on vacation again and so I want to have as much pink influence as realistically possible, because I'm already messing up with the diet. Alcohol, coffee, skip breakfast and exercise are still going very well.
Well, sometimes the egg will drop before the Ovitrelle is administered (not everyone gets as high a level of care as they deserve, and doctors sometimes miss things) so as a general rule I do like to see you guys having e4d attempts just in case something goes awry. But I'd probably not worry about that for now and have two attempts at trigger as long as you feel you won't miss the egg.
I think you need to have at least TWO attempts at the trigger shot. It is time to get you pregnant and so I'd have an attempt the day of the trigger and the day after. Or even more if you really want best chance of conception, but I understand wanting to stick with just two for the sway.
Weight gain has really not been that predictive of whose sways work and whose don't. I would just be trying to get pregnant now as the medications can be hard on you, so please don't worry about the sway and be in with 2 attempts at or around the trigger shot. The day of, the day after.
Atomic, quick question in between.
The fertility clinic just called me to inject the Ovitrelle at 8 pm today (CD10). They said we should DTD tomorrow (CD11). Follicle was yesterday (CD9) at 16mm. EWCM since yesterday. My OPK are negative so far (I just did another OPK now, it's 6.30 pm in Germany). We had an Attempt yesterday (CD9). Do you think we should do more Attempts today and tomorrow (attempts then CD 9, 10, 11), or tomorrow and the day after (attempts then CD 9, 11, 12)? Doctor told me ovulation would be about 36 hours after trigger, that would be the day after tomorrow (CD12 in the morning).
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Update: We had a BD this evening and will have another BD tomorrow. Then we have three attempts in a row (CD 9, 10, 11) and I'm not that comfortable with it in terms of the Sway, but it's still important to me to have a good chance of conception and I'm just taking the risk now that it will be a boy (Even though I know that I will be very upset if I actually conceive a boy now). To be honest, I don't think I'm going to get pregnant now.
I would probably just have the attempt you've had and then one more. But if you WERE to have attempt say CD 12, the odds would be just two attempts (because you'd already have conceived with the earlier attempts before the last one could capacitate) and you'd be covered in case the first two didn't make it for some reason.
Sorry, I have to check again because of the language barrier. We had now attempts on CD 9 and 10, according to the doctor we should definitely have an attempt on CD 11 today. Do you now think that we should give up this attempt and leave it at the two attempts on CD 9 and 10 and if we want to try again on CD 12? Or do you think we should also do the recommended attempt on CD 11 today? I think today CD 11 is the most important attempt as I injected the Ovitrelle last night. But then it would be three attempts in a row. I'm torn between having a high chance of conceiving and wanting a girl. My feeling is that we should still have an Attempt today. Because I just want to finally get pregnant. Still, I want a DD so badly. I'm not 100 percent comfortable with that, but I think we'll have an Attempt today as well. I feel like I just have to try everything and not doing it on this important day gives me a stomach ache too.
Addition: I have to add my text again. I'm kind of upset, I want to do everything right and still have a good chance of having a girl. But I still want to have the chance to get pregnant and not miss the chance. I'm just thinking about how to do it properly. I think the attempt last night (CD 10) was a mistake, we should have only done the Attempts on CD 9 and then CD 11 (today) but I was so unsure and that's how the attempt happened yesterday on CD 10. I just don't know what to do now. Have an Attempt on CD 11 today or not? Do you think it's a good idea not to attempt today and instead tomorrow on CD 12 in the afternoon? So we would have Attempts on CD 9 and CD 10 in the evening right after the Ovitrelle injection, and then CD 12 at noon? By that time, O will already have happened. Do you think our attempt last night, which was about 36 hours before ovulation, has a good chance? And an Attempt on CD 12 in the afternoon, probably about 7-8 hours after ovulation, would then still be a good option if the BD on CD 10 missed the egg? But then would we have no attempt at all on the day when the odds were highest (today on CD 11). But if we DTD today we have three Attempts three days in a row and I'm afraid this will sway too much blue also because I messed up the diet and gained weight. But if we don't have an Attempt today, the chance of conception is much less or what do you think? My hubby's semen is within normal limits, but according to the doctor it's more in the lower range of normal values.
I'm not feeling well at the moment, everything puts me under so much pressure and I don't know what to do, I'm caught between wanting to get pregnant and wanting a daughter. I could cry. Been so easygoing and relaxed for the past few cycles but now I'm slowly getting to the point where I'm putting myself under pressure again and wanting to do everything perfectly to finally have my girl.
I'm sorry, this came through later at night for me and I only just now saw it.
The CD 9 attempt is probably too early to count. I think it's unlikely that anything will survive that long. The earlier in the fertile window, the more sperm die very quickly, and even with the timing of your Ovitrelle, I suspect everything from CD 9 will be dead and gone.
Have the attempt CD 10 and 11. Don't worry about having three in a row. I think it would be best to have one CD 12 too but if you don't want to, that's your call to make.
I hope you had the attempt, because I agree with you that attempts CD 9 and 10 without one CD 11 is very low. If you didn't, have one as soon as possible on CD 12.
Thanks for your answer, it wasn't too late. We had the attempt on CD 11 yesterday, so we now have attempts on CD 9, 10 and 11 with a trigger shot on CD 10 in the evening. I don't know yet whether we'll do another Attempt on CD 12 today. My husband and I don't have a high sex drive and now we've had attempts for three days in a row and the motivation isn't that high anymore. If it fits tonight, we'll do another attempt in case the previous attempts didn't get the egg.
So and now it's time to wait and pray. I don't have much hope, but more hope than the last few cycles. Doctor told me that the chances of conceiving after laparoscopy and hysteroscopy are slightly increased, even if there is no diagnosis. I hope so much.
I don't know what to do if I don't get pregnant with hormonal stimulation. You've already said that insemination doesn't make much sense. What if I am not pregnant after 2-3 cycles of hormonal injections, what do you recommend as a next step? IVF? Or is there anything else we could try before that? And if IVF, is there still a way to influence the gender? With IVF, the egg still chooses the sperm, but it's just not "natural" anymore? Can I still sway a bit or is that not possible? With an ICSI I think there is definitely no influence anymore, but I don't think that's necessary because the sperm is good. Unfortunately, gender selection at ICSI is not possible in Germany, and going to another country is not possible for financial reasons.
Yes we do sometimes see conceptions after hysteroscopy and/or laparoscopy. No one really knows why.
I'm not sure why you'd do IVF, to be honest. If nothing is wrong, and sperm and egg quality, plus your tubes and uterus are normal, then the only benefit to IVF would be to weed out some genetically defective embryos. But if your egg quality is normal, then there's really no genetic reason why you're not getting pregnant (usually if there's a genetic issue, people have lots of miscarriages, and often have tested their losses and found genetic issues in them). I don't understand why doctors would suggest IVF when nothing would appear to REQUIRE it. Plus, in order for the genetic testing, it's recommended to do ICSI anyway, so that would still be a necessity.
You can't sway when doing IVF. In order for IVF to succeed, you need LOTS of eggs to be fertilized by LOTS of sperm - maximum numbers - and we also need for your physical self to be in the best shape possible for pregnancy. So you simply can't be messing around with swaying because we need the absolute best results, which means a really healthy diet, vitamins, some fertility supplements (especially for DH), and not exercising to extremes. That having been said, sometimes, occasionally, a doctor will let you "pick the embryo" for family balancing, after dropping a hint about the gender, but I would certainly not count on that. In the vast majority of cases, particularly in Germany, the doctors are completely unwilling to give any such information and react very negatively so it's not really something you can just mention casually beforehand.
Some people do give their husbands the olive leaf extract, with or without Vitamin C. I am highly skeptical of the Olive Leaf (there's a big explanation as to why, if you want to know) but I have people use it for swaying simply because it seems harmless, even though I don't think it actually works.
So what to do next? I would personally simply start doing whatever I could to conceive, without worrying about swaying any more. We can do this gradually over the course of time, to try to get you pregnant before you give up everything and start boosting your fertility through the roof.
As always, thank you for your replies, it's a great help and support.
My doctor hasn't said anything about IVF yet, it was more my own thoughts on how to proceed if I don't get pregnant in the coming months. Unfortunately, I found out that my health insurance doesn't support me as much as I thought, so IVF and something like that are currently not possible for financial reasons.
Atomic, honestly, do you think I can still have hope of conceiving naturally? I'm slowly thinking about whether it still makes sense to do the Sway with all the restrictions, because I have the feeling that the chance of getting pregnant after such a long time is almost zero. We've been trying for over a year. I read a few studies and they took away a lot of hope that it could still work. Are there any medical tests I should still do? I think there must be a reason I'm not getting pregnant. It worked with the first child on the first try. And now we've been trying for over a year. There must be a reason! Or?
And what's your advice, how should we proceed now? We'll have to keep trying the natural way for a while. There will be no IVF or ICSI for now. What would be your advice on what to do now? Are there things I can still improve without completely ruining the Sway? Are there things I should drop? How about alcohol, do you think that could be a reason I'm not getting pregnant? And what about the exercises? I try to go for a walk as much as possible because it's not that heavy. But when the weather is bad, I like to jump on the trampoline, like Jumping Fitness. So I'm wondering is this ok during the 2WW or could it be that the jumping motions are preventing fertilization or implantation?
I requested the test results from my doctor. I show them to you here (one side is translated with google translator, the other side is original). It's the sperm analysis and the blood test from me and the blood test from my husband. The blood values are all in the normal range. The sperm is also in the normal range almost everywhere, only the number of normally shaped sperm is slightly lower than normal. Could that be the problem? The analysis was done before my husband started taking supplements.
(Sorry I don't know how to resize the images here.)
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There are two answers to your question:
a) Yes, I absolutely do think you still have hope of conceiving naturally. You have been checked out thoroughly and nothing appears to be amiss. The slightly abnormal sperm shape on your husband's side shouldn't mean anything, it's barely less than normal, and it's only when that finding is found alongside many other things that it causes a problem. Many men have one parameter that's a little off and conceive normally. He's welcome to take the supplements if you want him to but that is not the issue (if there is an issue at all)
BUT
b) You are quite right that it makes absolutely no sense to continue swaying with (as you put it) "all the restrictions". Like I said above, we need to gradually lighten up on whatever you've been doing for a sway, and then eventually you will catch the egg.
EDITED - I know, I know, I said all this before but I just have to say it again to hopefully reassure you!! In months we sway too hard, those just don't "count".
I don't have all your information in front of me, but the odds are that at least some of your months, back at the start, you were possibly swaying too hard, and now, maybe it has to to do with having been very strict on diet/exercise for a very long time. So my thinking would be to be sure that you're not swaying too hard in ways that don't even work (timing, pH, etc) while GRADUALLY relaxing on things like diet and exercise, so we can be sure that your body feels safe in conceiving. Because if your body "thinks" that you're on the brink of starvation, it will not take a chance on pregnancy, and this can happen even if you feel you're not terribly thin or that you're not dieting too strictly.
I don't think that either the alcohol or the jumping is the issue, but it is time to start letting things go. You certainly don't NEED to jump on a trampoline, and I would like you to cut back exercise to 4 days a week anyway - regardless of the kind of exercise you're doing, too much exercise, for a long time, while you're dieting the entire time, is the sort of thing that may make your body too "nervous" to conceive. You also don't NEED alcohol, so let that go, or compromise and cut that back to only on weekends. I don't think that's "the" problem, and in fact I don't think there is one single problem, but simply that it's been too much for too long and now your body just doesn't "think" it's the right time to get pregnant!
I'm going to reread your thread and see what jumps out at me.
First thing - in one of your posts, you refer to "fasting as long as possible" and I told you I did not want you to fast longer than 12-16 hours. How long are you fasting now, or have you given that up??
Second thing - as we already talked about, the first month you were doing a lot to sway, and then by the second month, you lost weight and developed a short LP. At that time I tried to express that even IF you haven't had a cycle disruption from diet and exercise in the past, it can develop at any time, and I think that may have been a sign that your body was not happy with the direction things were going, with the diet and exercise plus weight loss. You also took saw palmetto that month (in addition to some other supplements) which might have aggravated cycle disruptions.
My point in bringing all this up is that it may be that the first month, you were being too strict and couldn't conceive, and then the second month, there were the supplements which might have interfered with conception (and these supplements can have effects that last weeks or even a month or two after taking them). But before you could conceive, it may very well have been you'd cut back too far and it takes some time to fix those issues.
I'm going over all this to reassure you that this is all fixable! This is fixable stuff, not forever, not infertility (your test results prove that). If what this is boiling down to is just too long on diet and exercise, cutting back too far, that is such an easy fix, we can have you pregnant in no time.
Are you taking any supplements now? Even things that people have said is good for conception? What is your husband taking for sperm health?
Another thing that jumps out to me is that you were using averages. You were NOT eating enough some days, and then eating MORE other days, and figuring the average between them. I said that this was fine because you were eating above the limits of fat on the off days, but if you're still doing that, alternating between eating high levels and near starving other days, then that needs to stop. Eat consistently 50 g fat or more every day, don't alternate between 30 g and 80 g and average them out. I have seen several people get disrupted cycles when they try to "average out" their diet rather than being sure to eat enough every day.
Be sure you're continuing the e4d all month in case of delayed O!
From here on in, let's avoid doing any more Femara or Clomid just in case it's having some sort of negative effect.
Ok. I've now read the whole post start to finish and here is what I think - we need to try without having you on any fertility medication, without alcohol (or just on weekends), reduced exercise (4, being sure you are eating 50-60 g protein and fat and more like 1800 cals daily, with the guaifenesin.
Are you still taking myoinositol? let's drop that, and add in prenatal (that has about 100% of daily vitamins, including iron and Vitamin D. Take that 3x a week.
My best guess as to what is going on is that you got a bit too depleted over the course of time, then your body maybe couldn't make enough hormones when you were on the Femara and Gonal to get pregnant. This has happened from time to time (but typically in people who are dreadfully thin - BMI 15-17 - which is why I really did not suspect that happening to you before) So the remedy is to go off the medication, try to get your stores built back up a bit more, and keep trying.
Still let's ditch the alcohol just in case and also cut back on the exercise.
Then I'd continue with e4d plus one or SMEP at your discretion.
Thank you very much for your very detailed answer. I've already read it, but I don't have the time and strength to answer right now. I will implement your tips and also give you an answer in the next few days if I have enough time (it's always time-consuming for me to write in English).
I'm feeling very bad right now. Today is my birthday and I got a BFN. Another year older, which certainly doesn't make it any easier to get pregnant. I'm so sad. Cycle #13 without BFP. Why?!
Lanini, you don't need to answer if you don't think you can. I understand I went over things that happened a long time ago, you probably changed them along the way, I do that just so I can help reassure you and not because I'm trying to criticize you or anything. Most of that stuff was ages ago. It's not necessary to go over it all again, I only do that if I think it might help, and because you were wondering what I had thought might have happened. I don't expect people to reply - it's fine not to. Let's try the changes in the last post and go on from here.
Your body doesn't know you have birthdays. There's nothing any different now than there was last month, six months ago, or even a year ago. I know it's hard to believe when the media makes it sound like every year older is dramatically lower fertility, but it's really not true.
Atomic, I need another quick tip and I hope you're still reading it today! I'm sorry I really haven't written anything more, the whole thing still worries me a lot, but I'll definitely give an update one of these days. Even if there is actually no news. I'm still not pregnant.
I am in the middle of my second cycle of hormone stimulation with Gonal F. Today is CD 11 and my follicle is 20mm. I got the trigger shot this afternoon. Doctor said we should DTD tomorrow evening (about 30 hours after trigger shot). I'm unsure if we should also have another attempt tonight (about 6 hours after trigger shot) or if it's better to wait until tomorrow. I'm kinda worried that if we only have an attempt tomorrow we'll miss the egg. I don't want to reduce sperm quality by another Attempt, but I also want a good chance of catching the egg. There are no Attempts this cycle yet because I was ill. My husband's last ejaculation was more than 5 days ago, which isn't good for the quality either? Atomic what do you advise? Attempt only tomorrow night (30 hours after trigger shot)? Or Attempt tonight (6 hours after) + tomorrow night (30 hours after)?
This cycle is so strange. I have no cervical mucus at all and no EWCM either, which I usually have a lot of. My OPKs are also not conclusive (neither really positive nor really negative). I don't know what makes sense at all.
The focus is to get pregnant - gender (almost) irrelevant.
I think you should have as many attempts as possible between now and then. Absolutely attempt tonight and tomorrow. The advice the doctor is giving is not the advice that most doctors would give in that situation - typically it's night of trigger and the next day.