Sora TTC a Boy Sway Attempt

Hey Sora,

I've tried to give things another thought. Hope this might be useful. I can see you're in terrible pain :(

This makes me so angry, as in what various people in your life must have projected on you. Why would you say/think you are hideous?? I mean come on ma chère !! I am half angry at everyone who has pushed you this way, half curious to see your photo now (hehe) and then I am exasperated. I am SURE you are not hideous. Does everyone who you see in the street run away shouting in horror? (Bonus positive point: we all wear masks now ;p) what do you have, three boobs? A nose the size of a watermelon? What, every single person who has made you feel ugly, do they look like Brad Pitt/Angelina Jolie? Spoiler alert, even Brad/Angelina/whomever gorgeous must look like rubbish at times if they are exhausted/upset. So what. That's ok. Don't let people make you feel you are ugly, just dump the people who do (or who make you feel you must change in any way against your will).

It is terrible you have been exposed to so many disfunctional people/situations. I can't quite place you on something: your English is so good, like more so than 97 percent of French people's (sorry but come on, you know this is true. My brother-in-law went to polytechnique and his wife as well and they are terrible compared to you and definitely nowhere near using expressions such as 'flayed alive'.) How can it be that in our country that supposedly promotes girls so much and equality and education, someone as obviously educated as yourself doesn't value themselves more? You ought to be proud of your achievements.

There are many many books written about how terrible mother/son relationships can be as well. Oeudipus. Like two thirds of Freud's writings and the foundations of modern psychiatric theory. Hamlet. Anne's brother in Jane Austen's Persuasion. Check out the book/film on the bio of comic strip artist Crumb - though don't, his and his brothers' relationship with their mother is explored in detail and it is so truly disturbing. It might make you wish never to have a son seeing how messed up it can get :/ any of his comic strips, I had to look at some in a class once and it's like .. Jesus.

That being said, of course you are right and i don't really understand what you are going through, though I can see it is awful (hugs) and you are maybe right as well that if you had gotten your boy now or sooner, everything would be fine now and on the mend.

Thanks for the clarification though I am somewhat very little reassured that in fact you 'just meant' taking your own life. This is very serious and it is definitely NOT best for you or your girls no matter how many messages you leave them explaining things. Please, I feel the situation calls for an immediate and aggressive plan of how you get yourself to be better right now. I would beg that, as there is still ample hope that perhaps one day your situation will improve and you might get be happy (and have a son) that you would not let yourself go down this dark path for the sake of this future possible happiness. Please, have you spoken to your husband to let him know how serious things are?

Regarding how to improve things. Let us concentrate then on the 'get better' plan. Let us set aside my opinions and 'the other swayers who have swayed four, five, twenty times' and also discussions about whether or not it is really true a son would cure you and that mothers and daughters are more destined to fall out, or you are because you are hideous/not feminine etc. I leave my thoughts in the previous paragraphs regarding those points for you to peruse when you feel up to it, if you do.

So our point of departure is that you need a son, no matter what. And you currently have two daughters and you expect your third. And the world is crazy and everyone is quarantined etc. That is good, we have a point of departure. There is no point trying to 'soften' out current circumstances, we have to accept reality.

You have decided on HT for the next attempt. Good. It would be worthwhile to review your finances and decide on several action plans and timelines depending on the state of the world and travel. Plus on your age, your jobs etc. It is imperative you look after yourself at this time, your health, your pregnancy and prepare for the upcoming birth. I know you said you don't want to/don't feel up to it. It doesn't matter right now. You have to even if you don't want to. If having a son would help heal you and you are committed to this plan and HT, then you must be in optimal health. How on earth would you feel if you go through with all this one or two years down the line, you fall pregnant with your son and then miscarry him because you are in a terrible state of health?? Exactly. If nothing else, commit to minding your health for the sake of your future son having a healthy mother.

There is one more thing that comes to me and I apologise if it is something you have already considered/ruled out/don't like. But it is what I have been considering/had planned for myself if my sway with DS had turned out to be a failed sway, as it is, I believe, the only way of having a child the gender you wish for sure: have you considered adoption? I realise a lot of people might balk at the word and maybe I did before. However, I have a friend who lives nearby who worked for several years as a volunteer with an orphanage (she has two of her own and they are planning an adoption for their third as a resultof her earlier work and exposure to an understanding of the existence ofnorphans looking for a home and mom and dad) another friend in Paris who has a daughter and she and her husband want an adoption for their second and last child, and a playground mommy friend in the neighborhood who adopted a little boy a year ago with her husband after a long and fruitless struggle with infertility exhausted them. I forget if I mentioned this to you but I am Russian by origin. The adoptions I mention had all been carried out by French people from Russian orphanages. There still are many children in that country who have been abandoned (and let's not dwell on the conditions in the under financed and over populated establishments they live in) and in some other countries as well. Of course it involves commitment, paperwork and at least two trips abroad as well, however it took the mommy friend who did it about a year in total, which I don't think is huge. It strikes me that if you want a son for yourself, any son, just a son that you would raise and that would heal you, you could give this option a think-over. I don't know much of other countries, but Russia is a traditional society in most part still and you expressing a wish to adopt a boy as you have three girls would be completely understood (a lot of people there want a son or sons and would get it). It also strikes me that the terrible experiences you have had would make you a sympathetic and good mother for a baby boy who probably has no chance in an establishment somewhere unless one like you would save him. It's a thought anyhow.

I hope your DD2 feels better - and that it isn't covid whatever she has!! Stay safe <3

Hey Sora,

I've tried to give things another thought. Hope this might be useful. I can see you're in terrible pain :(

This makes me so angry, as in what various people in your life must have projected on you. Why would you say/think you are hideous?? I mean come on ma chère !! I am half angry at everyone who has pushed you this way, half curious to see your photo now (hehe) and then I am exasperated. I am SURE you are not hideous. Does everyone who you see in the street run away shouting in horror? (Bonus positive point: we all wear masks now ;p) what do you have, three boobs? A nose the size of a watermelon? What, every single person who has made you feel ugly, do they look like Brad Pitt/Angelina Jolie? Spoiler alert, even Brad/Angelina/whomever gorgeous must look like rubbish at times if they are exhausted/upset. So what. That's ok. Don't let people make you feel you are ugly, just dump the people who do (or who make you feel you must change in any way against your will).

It is terrible you have been exposed to so many disfunctional people/situations. I can't quite place you on something: your English is so good, like more so than 97 percent of French people's (sorry but come on, you know this is true. My brother-in-law went to polytechnique and his wife as well and they are terrible compared to you and definitely nowhere near using expressions such as 'flayed alive'.) How can it be that in our country that supposedly promotes girls so much and equality and education, someone as obviously educated as yourself doesn't value themselves more? You ought to be proud of your achievements.

There are many many books written about how terrible mother/son relationships can be as well. Oeudipus. Like two thirds of Freud's writings and the foundations of modern psychiatric theory. Hamlet. Anne's brother in Jane Austen's Persuasion. Check out the book/film on the bio of comic strip artist Crumb - though don't, his and his brothers' relationship with their mother is explored in detail and it is so truly disturbing. It might make you wish never to have a son seeing how messed up it can get :/ any of his comic strips, I had to look at some in a class once and it's like .. Jesus.

That being said, of course you are right and i don't really understand what you are going through, though I can see it is awful (hugs) and you are maybe right as well that if you had gotten your boy now or sooner, everything would be fine now and on the mend.

Thanks for the clarification though I am somewhat very little reassured that in fact you 'just meant' taking your own life. This is very serious and it is definitely NOT best for you or your girls no matter how many messages you leave them explaining things. Please, I feel the situation calls for an immediate and aggressive plan of how you get yourself to be better right now. I would beg that, as there is still ample hope that perhaps one day your situation will improve and you might get be happy (and have a son) that you would not let yourself go down this dark path for the sake of this future possible happiness. Please, have you spoken to your husband to let him know how serious things are?

Regarding how to improve things. Let us concentrate then on the 'get better' plan. Let us set aside my opinions and 'the other swayers who have swayed four, five, twenty times' and also discussions about whether or not it is really true a son would cure you and that mothers and daughters are more destined to fall out, or you are because you are hideous/not feminine etc. I leave my thoughts in the previous paragraphs regarding those points for you to peruse when you feel up to it, if you do.

So our point of departure is that you need a son, no matter what. And you currently have two daughters and you expect your third. And the world is crazy and everyone is quarantined etc. That is good, we have a point of departure. There is no point trying to 'soften' out current circumstances, we have to accept reality.

You have decided on HT for the next attempt. Good. It would be worthwhile to review your finances and decide on several action plans and timelines depending on the state of the world and travel. Plus on your age, your jobs etc. It is imperative you look after yourself at this time, your health, your pregnancy and prepare for the upcoming birth. I know you said you don't want to/don't feel up to it. It doesn't matter right now. You have to even if you don't want to. If having a son would help heal you and you are committed to this plan and HT, then you must be in optimal health. How on earth would you feel if you go through with all this one or two years down the line, you fall pregnant with your son and then miscarry him because you are in a terrible state of health?? Exactly. If nothing else, commit to minding your health for the sake of your future son having a healthy mother.

There is one more thing that comes to me and I apologise if it is something you have already considered/ruled out/don't like. But it is what I have been considering/had planned for myself if my sway with DS had turned out to be a failed sway, as it is, I believe, the only way of having a child the gender you wish for sure: have you considered adoption? I realise a lot of people might balk at the word and maybe I did before. However, I have a friend who lives nearby who worked for several years as a volunteer with an orphanage (she has two of her own and they are planning an adoption for their third as a resultof her earlier work and exposure to an understanding of the existence ofnorphans looking for a home and mom and dad) another friend in Paris who has a daughter and she and her husband want an adoption for their second and last child, and a playground mommy friend in the neighborhood who adopted a little boy a year ago with her husband after a long and fruitless struggle with infertility exhausted them. I forget if I mentioned this to you but I am Russian by origin. The adoptions I mention had all been carried out by French people from Russian orphanages. There still are many children in that country who have been abandoned (and let's not dwell on the conditions in the under financed and over populated establishments they live in) and in some other countries as well. Of course it involves commitment, paperwork and at least two trips abroad as well, however it took the mommy friend who did it about a year in total, which I don't think is huge. It strikes me that if you want a son for yourself, any son, just a son that you would raise and that would heal you, you could give this option a think-over. I don't know much of other countries, but Russia is a traditional society in most part still and you expressing a wish to adopt a boy as you have three girls would be completely understood (a lot of people there want a son or sons and would get it). It also strikes me that the terrible experiences you have had would make you a sympathetic and good mother for a baby boy who probably has no chance in an establishment somewhere unless one like you would save him. It's a thought anyhow.

I hope your DD2 feels better - and that it isn't covid whatever she has!! Stay safe <3

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ChezIBY

Hey Sora,

I've tried to give things another thought. Hope this might be useful. I can see you're in terrible pain :(

This makes me so angry, as in what various people in your life must have projected on you. Why would you say/think you are hideous?? I mean come on ma chère !! I am half angry at everyone who has pushed you this way, half curious to see your photo now (hehe) and then I am exasperated. I am SURE you are not hideous. Does everyone who you see in the street run away shouting in horror? (Bonus positive point: we all wear masks now ;p) what do you have, three boobs? A nose the size of a watermelon? What, every single person who has made you feel ugly, do they look like Brad Pitt/Angelina Jolie? Spoiler alert, even Brad/Angelina/whomever gorgeous must look like rubbish at times if they are exhausted/upset. So what. That's ok. Don't let people make you feel you are ugly, just dump the people who do (or who make you feel you must change in any way against your will).

It is terrible you have been exposed to so many disfunctional people/situations. I can't quite place you on something: your English is so good, like more so than 97 percent of French people's (sorry but come on, you know this is true. My brother-in-law went to polytechnique and his wife as well and they are terrible compared to you and definitely nowhere near using expressions such as 'flayed alive'.) How can it be that in our country that supposedly promotes girls so much and equality and education, someone as obviously educated as yourself doesn't value themselves more? You ought to be proud of your achievements.

There are many many books written about how terrible mother/son relationships can be as well. Oeudipus. Like two thirds of Freud's writings and the foundations of modern psychiatric theory. Hamlet. Anne's brother in Jane Austen's Persuasion. Check out the book/film on the bio of comic strip artist Crumb - though don't, his and his brothers' relationship with their mother is explored in detail and it is so truly disturbing. It might make you wish never to have a son seeing how messed up it can get :/ any of his comic strips, I had to look at some in a class once and it's like .. Jesus.

That being said, of course you are right and i don't really understand what you are going through, though I can see it is awful (hugs) and you are maybe right as well that if you had gotten your boy now or sooner, everything would be fine now and on the mend.

Thanks for the clarification though I am somewhat very little reassured that in fact you 'just meant' taking your own life. This is very serious and it is definitely NOT best for you or your girls no matter how many messages you leave them explaining things. Please, I feel the situation calls for an immediate and aggressive plan of how you get yourself to be better right now. I would beg that, as there is still ample hope that perhaps one day your situation will improve and you might get be happy (and have a son) that you would not let yourself go down this dark path for the sake of this future possible happiness. Please, have you spoken to your husband to let him know how serious things are?

Regarding how to improve things. Let us concentrate then on the 'get better' plan. Let us set aside my opinions and 'the other swayers who have swayed four, five, twenty times' and also discussions about whether or not it is really true a son would cure you and that mothers and daughters are more destined to fall out, or you are because you are hideous/not feminine etc. I leave my thoughts in the previous paragraphs regarding those points for you to peruse when you feel up to it, if you do.

So our point of departure is that you need a son, no matter what. And you currently have two daughters and you expect your third. And the world is crazy and everyone is quarantined etc. That is good, we have a point of departure. There is no point trying to 'soften' out current circumstances, we have to accept reality.

You have decided on HT for the next attempt. Good. It would be worthwhile to review your finances and decide on several action plans and timelines depending on the state of the world and travel. Plus on your age, your jobs etc. It is imperative you look after yourself at this time, your health, your pregnancy and prepare for the upcoming birth. I know you said you don't want to/don't feel up to it. It doesn't matter right now. You have to even if you don't want to. If having a son would help heal you and you are committed to this plan and HT, then you must be in optimal health. How on earth would you feel if you go through with all this one or two years down the line, you fall pregnant with your son and then miscarry him because you are in a terrible state of health?? Exactly. If nothing else, commit to minding your health for the sake of your future son having a healthy mother.

There is one more thing that comes to me and I apologise if it is something you have already considered/ruled out/don't like. But it is what I have been considering/had planned for myself if my sway with DS had turned out to be a failed sway, as it is, I believe, the only way of having a child the gender you wish for sure: have you considered adoption? I realise a lot of people might balk at the word and maybe I did before. However, I have a friend who lives nearby who worked for several years as a volunteer with an orphanage (she has two of her own and they are planning an adoption for their third as a resultof her earlier work and exposure to an understanding of the existence ofnorphans looking for a home and mom and dad) another friend in Paris who has a daughter and she and her husband want an adoption for their second and last child, and a playground mommy friend in the neighborhood who adopted a little boy a year ago with her husband after a long and fruitless struggle with infertility exhausted them. I forget if I mentioned this to you but I am Russian by origin. The adoptions I mention had all been carried out by French people from Russian orphanages. There still are many children in that country who have been abandoned (and let's not dwell on the conditions in the under financed and over populated establishments they live in) and in some other countries as well. Of course it involves commitment, paperwork and at least two trips abroad as well, however it took the mommy friend who did it about a year in total, which I don't think is huge. It strikes me that if you want a son for yourself, any son, just a son that you would raise and that would heal you, you could give this option a think-over. I don't know much of other countries, but Russia is a traditional society in most part still and you expressing a wish to adopt a boy as you have three girls would be completely understood (a lot of people there want a son or sons and would get it). It also strikes me that the terrible experiences you have had would make you a sympathetic and good mother for a baby boy who probably has no chance in an establishment somewhere unless one like you would save him. It's a thought anyhow.

I hope your DD2 feels better - and that it isn't covid whatever she has!! Stay safe <3

---

I'll just jump right into the last part since it will come up now that I failed so hard. And I haven't broached the subject here don't worry, for fear of discouraging people wanting to go down that road. But regarding my situation, I am deeply against adoption. I was surprised you did suggest it since it's just impossible to adopt in France (but you never mentionned you were Russian) but now I understand you mean adoption abroad. But as sad as I am for these orphans, it's a big NO to me.

Understand that I have gone through my life relying a LOT on what others brought to survive. Pity, mercy, money, food, very very often a roof starting when I was 18... time away from friends and family for my sake... I barely managed to pay these people back and many didn't like the wait nor did they like much bringing the help first thing. A few expected some kind of reward in return. A lot didn't expect much but did get angry at having to help at all because they weren't relatives and despite liking me, felt that shouldn't be their job, period. And they're tiring of me, seeing as I always end up in trouble, even if they know that for some things, it really is out of my control. They feel like all their hard work is being destroyed by others, or nature in the case of Corona. And they want to throw the towel and I can't blame them. I was in that situation once, trying to help a friend with her toxic mom who kept undoing all our little victories.

Also, the majority of people who hear about what I went through and how I had to rely on people who were not family dubs me more or less as "someone who can't survive by herself aka a load -> that's what has so many people tell me I'm ugly or stupid, because they feel someone smart and pretty would never go through such hard times. They have a lot of troubles understanding the concept of "bad circumstances" and I do get that. You rarely meet someone with such bad luck. And when it goes to that level, you can't help but think that person is bringing it all upon themselves willingly. Cause lightnning doesn't strike twice and blablabla so even if it does indeed exist, people will more likely think you summoned lightning rather than you were just born unlucky.

What will they think of me when I have to rely on another woman to have a son ? And not because I'm infertile, that would be a good reason... but being so so so failed despite being fertile that I have to count on another's mistake, bad luck or worse, death, to get something as simple, as natural as a child ? Everyone who ever said I was a failure, stupid, ugly will be totally vindicated in their opinion, forever. They already feel like it and do remind it to me because I failed to be loved by my mother, failed to find a job. I finished my studies just at the beginning of the 2008 crisis, that combined with my familial and financial problems of the time (found myself in the streets) kept me from ever finding a good place and now I'm paying for it... Do people care it was bad luck ? No, they just see the failure and say it's proof enough I wouldn't be a good employee and never give me a chance. The little jobs I found during that decade ? I all owed them to strangers who housed me. And they never failed to remind me of it, that without them I would be nothing. THe last job I held (and now lost) just before Corona ? All mine, my own efforts. I was searching for something new before the pandemic and now I'm not sure I will ever get the opportunity again. Especially if I'm stuck trying for a son... but my body can't wait for me to find another job, time is running out if I even want HT to work.

So let's not talk about adoption... how will that look like ? A young, healthy woman unable to be loved by her parents, unable to find a job, and now unable to make her own son, needing the flesh and blood of another ? I can hear them already "How far do you plan on living like a parasite ? You bring nothing good to this world." I already heard that, have heard that since I was 10. I thought it would be finally over once an adult with a family of my own but instead, it keeps getting worse and it's not even all my fault. I took some very bad decisions but did I do 2008 ? No. Did I ask for Corona ? No. And still I am paying for it and it's me who is the virus.

You know, when I was TTC DD1, I was also planning to go back to studying in hopes of bettering my chance. Not only did they refuse to fund every plan I proposed them at unemployement but in the end, they told me "You're much too old to go back to school, how long will you keep that childish attitude ? Get out there, clean some toilets and be an adult ! It's time you got a taste of what real life is !". When DD2 started school, I was asked if I planned to go back to my job. When I said I had no job to go back to, the woman in charge of registering my DD2's name looked me in the eye and said "Ok... and how long are you planning to keep living like a weak little girl on other people's charity ? Don't you think that at your age, it's time to start living the adult life ?".

You asked me how a woman could still, in a first-world country, with education, think so little of herself and stuff... Well, you have some answers. And apparently I'm not the only one going through this.
To me it all goes back to still having a family too, and especially a good mom. I knew a friend who had it really bad, worse than me even. But her mother never let her down. Not when she failed high-school, not when her father abandonned them taking everything with him, not when she was struggling and doubting herself. Her mother, despite being atrociously depressed, kept telling her she was smart, capable and beautiful and not to worry. She taught her herself (she was a former seller, had her own store, but was ruined by 2008 crisis too and ended up jobless...). And know what ? It worked. Thanks to her help and kind words, the daughter found a part-time job as a seller herself, then from that went on to better jobs thanks to the experience and money, even paid herself a return to studies for a year, and now still fight to get a better life. And she's reasonnably happy. She even married.
Sometimes all you need is a loving parent. But I don't have that so I start with so huge a disadvantage it feels like I will never, ever be able to find a way. There's no one waiting home to comfort me after a bad day or a failed search for a job. There's no one to call. I can't count how many times in my life I have stared at my phone during sleepless nights, crying and wondering who I could talk to about it only to realize there was no one. No mom, no relatives. I don't want to burden the friends I have with that and for my male friends, it's a little bit complicated with wives around you know... They don't like them helping out a woman who's not their sister. They find it suspect. And let's not talk about DH, he has everything he wished for, he doesn't understand.

Well disgressing but how am I supposed to look at myself in the mirror and not believe the people who call me a parasite and a failure when I can't even have a son without a stranger's help ?

There's no judgement here about adoption, just so it's clear. It's all related to my personnal and unusual situation, I don't think badly of adoption by itself, of adoptive mother. Quite the contrary even as I had a bunch of friends who were adopted. But here lies another of my fears... I've seen them all save for one boy want to reach out and find their birth mother after a while, no matter how much they loved their adoptive moms. And I totally get why, don't misunderstand, I've played confidant role all these years and I know what drove them... but again it's just me, while I will never forbid an adopted child to look for answers, I know it will hurt me too much, too much to heal. I would let them so that there are not two people hurt, just one, but it will kill me. All that love and work just to end up not enough in the end. Less good than the birth mother even if the latter is an irresponsible druggie. What I already spent my life being told I brought nothing good and now I will somehow be told finding a stupid junkie is more important than just enjoying a bond with me ? It's a dark thought and seems like it conflict with what I said but it's really a mix. I do get how you can be consummed by a need for answers about your past, really, and I wish for people to get these answers... but at the same time I feel it's such a slap in the face towards the adoptive parent. Your child wanting to meet at any cost the person who abandonned them. Well it depends, I guess a normal adoptive parent loved by other people will just shrug it off. But I can't, my own mother didn't love me and my adopted son would rather loose time and money chasing after a potential bad mother ? Such a new low to fall to. I don't want to go through this.

Sorry it is long again, I just hope I managed to express my feelings about it. Don't worry I get your suggestion and why you'd offer that option, no problem at all. It's the logical way to look at the situation too. Just explaining why it won't be possible for me and sorry if I'm being confused. It's a complex subject and I have trouble ordering or spelling my thoughts on it. And again it's just my opinion about adoption for me, not about adoption by itself or for others.

Sorry have to go to an appointment so leaving a bit quickly now.

Im sorry its taken me so long to reply to you Sora.
One thing that really jumps out at me from your posts is how you are trapped in a very negative environment.
City life, while convienient with everything right on your doorstep is like living in a fishbowl. You are overlooked from every angle all the time, you cant do anything without being watched or overheard and as a result everything you do/say is known about and then judged by others.
I know moving is a huge pain but if you can leave the city then do, you need space to be able to just breathe.
We left urban living behind 3 years ago and its the best thing we ever did, our kids have outside space to run and play in and we are no longer overlooked, meaning we no longer have every move we make judged or have to worry about the kids playing too loud or being reported by bitter people who have nothing better to do. It is honestly so freeing to not have to feel all those pairs of eyes on you everywhere you go.
We arent in total isolation, there are houses to either side of us but its open fields to the front and back of our house and we are only 5 minutes away from the nearest town, so you dont need to move to the middle of nowhere to feel the difference. The people are different too, they have no interest in spying on others they keep themselves to themselves. Even the way they dress is different no one cares what you wear, im like you im not girly at all, i dont own a single dress! I never wear makeup, i live in jeans my hair is never "styled" and no one cares here :) but where we used to live i was considered a "tramp"
Seriously though how do those women clean the house, change nappies and cook etc with those long fake nails?! If i paint my short nails its all chipped and ruined within a day!!
Moving away has made me realise how toxic city life really is and from what you have described life in Paris (despite being known here in the UK as the beautiful "city of love") sounds like hell.
As has already been said Mother-Son relationships can be bad, one thing male serial killers have in common is "mummy issues" and boys are also much more likely to be autistic so there is always the chance that he would have additional needs. I think most of us on here with lots of boys have at least one son who has additional needs of some form, they are becoming very common in our society now and even the doctors are very open about mums of girls not needing to worry as much, though of course girls can be affected too. Gender selection is illegal here but if you have an autistic boy they will let you have it to get a girl and supposedly avoid autism.

Im so sad to read that you feel your only option is to take your own life. I lost my mum when i was little and then a few years later i lost my dad and ended up alone at 16. I know your dh would care for your girls if you left but who would care for them if both you and dh were gone?
No amount of messages/letters/videos from you will fill the void your departure will leave in your girls lives, and your dh may very well destroy them as children often never get to read the suicide note, i guess people feel its best they never see it.
Please take the time to look up and read the experiences of people who have lost a parent to suicide, parents who just like you truly believed their children were better off without them and that they were doing the best for their children by dying.
The actual consequences of their death are never what they intended them to be.

All of the things that you want to have die with you so they dont affect your girls wont stop with your death.
They wont be judged for having an "ugly" mum but they will be heavily judged for having a mum who killed herself..
They wont have a mum who "isnt good enough for them" but they will feel that they werent good enough for you.. and then they will believe they aren't good enough for anyone.
You are doing this out of love for them but they will wonder why you didnt love them enough to stay.
You want to set them free from your inadequacies but instead you sentence them to a lifetime of grief and also a deep routed fear that everyone else will die and leave them at any given moment. (i became terrified of my dad dying after my mum went)
Grief affects children for life. It stunts their emotional growth often leaving them unable to emotionally develop beyond the age they were when the loss occured.
They will also be at a hugely increased risk of dying by suicide themselves.. as they say, the cycle continues until someone breaks the chain.
On a different note you will also rob your future self of the chance to raise a boy/s and your future son/s will also be robbed of the life they would of had.
No matter how loud the bad thoughts get know that they are not painting the full picture. There is a saying "kill your life not yourself." Change everything, move away and cut out all the negative people (get ruthless!!) do whatever it takes :heart:

**i also want to second that your english is amazing!

Hi Sora,

Don't worry about the adoption issue; if it isn't an option for you it's fine, you decide about your life and you shouldn't have to justify anything. Definitely not here on the forums where everyone is here to support you anyhow <3

Who are these 'they' who judge you all the time? (As in your saying 'what will they say if I have to rely on another woman to have a son etc')? If it is just random people like at the pole emploi or the lady who registered the acte de naissance for your DD, the examples you mention here, please learn not to care!! Not to be rude as there must be many nice people working there, but I think a lot of them must feel defensive/embittered because of their line of work where many of their customers must be rude and obnoxious to them on a daily basis. If you are a bit quiet and self-effacing in appearance they might just take their spleen out on you!! Please please don't beat yourself up over it or at least learn to give cutting replies if it hurts!! Put people back in their place!! What sort of right in hell does a random clerk in a window have to judge you?? If your situation suits you and DH that's all that matters. You are raising two, soon to be three children in the current circumstances which is hectic enough. And with Covid a ton of people will become unemployed unfortunately, with companies such as Air France even declaring bankruptcy, so there will be a bazillion people in tight straits. It would be blind, to say the least, for anyone to blame you for being out of a job. Please come back at them aggressively if they do. 'i am sorry, I didn't realize you were an expert on my life. Why don't you come and live with my family then as I am sure you have many valuable bits of advice to share. You must live in a three story house on ile st louis and make six figures a month yourself then? Seeing as how you find it so easy to dispatch critique'. Or something.

Please, also you must really not think that you have anything to 'prove' to such people. Or rather if these are really people (actually present all the time in your life, not just random strangers) who judge you because you don't have a son/job/I don't know what, then these people are bad for you even if your situation were to change. You ought to try and get rid of them being in your life.

At least DH is in a good place then. He should be your support though and it is imperative he understand you are feeling very poorly.

Best of luck for planning HT then. Not to dampen anything but just in case and to be on the safe side, do prepare for an eventual opposite and maybe plan two consecutive attempts or something? Just to take the pressure off.

I come back to the point that the most immediate action should be you looking after yourself physically and mentally though and the two are linked. If for the sake of nothing else, then for the fact that you will be heavy bent on your next ttc ht attempt if you have a long recovery after this one. You must look after yourself! Even if you don't want to. And if you are at the point that nothing seems worthwhile and you can't face getting out of bed then you must absolutely alert your DH that you are depressed.

Please also believe that your girls would not be better off without you. As you have expressed yourself in the example of your friend succeeding despite various difficulties, mother's love and support can go far. You will do great at raising them <3

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by 4blue2pink

Im sorry its taken me so long to reply to you Sora.
One thing that really jumps out at me from your posts is how you are trapped in a very negative environment.
City life, while convienient with everything right on your doorstep is like living in a fishbowl. You are overlooked from every angle all the time, you cant do anything without being watched or overheard and as a result everything you do/say is known about and then judged by others.
I know moving is a huge pain but if you can leave the city then do, you need space to be able to just breathe.
We left urban living behind 3 years ago and its the best thing we ever did, our kids have outside space to run and play in and we are no longer overlooked, meaning we no longer have every move we make judged or have to worry about the kids playing too loud or being reported by bitter people who have nothing better to do. It is honestly so freeing to not have to feel all those pairs of eyes on you everywhere you go.
We arent in total isolation, there are houses to either side of us but its open fields to the front and back of our house and we are only 5 minutes away from the nearest town, so you dont need to move to the middle of nowhere to feel the difference. The people are different too, they have no interest in spying on others they keep themselves to themselves. Even the way they dress is different no one cares what you wear, im like you im not girly at all, i dont own a single dress! I never wear makeup, i live in jeans my hair is never "styled" and no one cares here :) but where we used to live i was considered a "tramp"
Seriously though how do those women clean the house, change nappies and cook etc with those long fake nails?! If i paint my short nails its all chipped and ruined within a day!!
Moving away has made me realise how toxic city life really is and from what you have described life in Paris (despite being known here in the UK as the beautiful "city of love") sounds like hell.
As has already been said Mother-Son relationships can be bad, one thing male serial killers have in common is "mummy issues" and boys are also much more likely to be autistic so there is always the chance that he would have additional needs. I think most of us on here with lots of boys have at least one son who has additional needs of some form, they are becoming very common in our society now and even the doctors are very open about mums of girls not needing to worry as much, though of course girls can be affected too. Gender selection is illegal here but if you have an autistic boy they will let you have it to get a girl and supposedly avoid autism.

Im so sad to read that you feel your only option is to take your own life. I lost my mum when i was little and then a few years later i lost my dad and ended up alone at 16. I know your dh would care for your girls if you left but who would care for them if both you and dh were gone?
No amount of messages/letters/videos from you will fill the void your departure will leave in your girls lives, and your dh may very well destroy them as children often never get to read the suicide note, i guess people feel its best they never see it.
Please take the time to look up and read the experiences of people who have lost a parent to suicide, parents who just like you truly believed their children were better off without them and that they were doing the best for their children by dying.
The actual consequences of their death are never what they intended them to be.

All of the things that you want to have die with you so they dont affect your girls wont stop with your death.
They wont be judged for having an "ugly" mum but they will be heavily judged for having a mum who killed herself..
They wont have a mum who "isnt good enough for them" but they will feel that they werent good enough for you.. and then they will believe they aren't good enough for anyone.
You are doing this out of love for them but they will wonder why you didnt love them enough to stay.
You want to set them free from your inadequacies but instead you sentence them to a lifetime of grief and also a deep routed fear that everyone else will die and leave them at any given moment. (i became terrified of my dad dying after my mum went)
Grief affects children for life. It stunts their emotional growth often leaving them unable to emotionally develop beyond the age they were when the loss occured.
They will also be at a hugely increased risk of dying by suicide themselves.. as they say, the cycle continues until someone breaks the chain.
On a different note you will also rob your future self of the chance to raise a boy/s and your future son/s will also be robbed of the life they would of had.
No matter how loud the bad thoughts get know that they are not painting the full picture. There is a saying "kill your life not yourself." Change everything, move away and cut out all the negative people (get ruthless!!) do whatever it takes :heart:

**i also want to second that your english is amazing!

---

Completely agree with everything you have said here blue!! Paris is awesome when you're visiting but unfortunately living there is pretty much as you described.

I can't add anything to what everyone has already said, but just know that we are all here and sending :heart: to you.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by 4blue2pink

Im sorry its taken me so long to reply to you Sora.
One thing that really jumps out at me from your posts is how you are trapped in a very negative environment.
City life, while convienient with everything right on your doorstep is like living in a fishbowl. You are overlooked from every angle all the time, you cant do anything without being watched or overheard and as a result everything you do/say is known about and then judged by others.
I know moving is a huge pain but if you can leave the city then do, you need space to be able to just breathe.
We left urban living behind 3 years ago and its the best thing we ever did, our kids have outside space to run and play in and we are no longer overlooked, meaning we no longer have every move we make judged or have to worry about the kids playing too loud or being reported by bitter people who have nothing better to do. It is honestly so freeing to not have to feel all those pairs of eyes on you everywhere you go.
We arent in total isolation, there are houses to either side of us but its open fields to the front and back of our house and we are only 5 minutes away from the nearest town, so you dont need to move to the middle of nowhere to feel the difference. The people are different too, they have no interest in spying on others they keep themselves to themselves. Even the way they dress is different no one cares what you wear, im like you im not girly at all, i dont own a single dress! I never wear makeup, i live in jeans my hair is never "styled" and no one cares here :) but where we used to live i was considered a "tramp"
Seriously though how do those women clean the house, change nappies and cook etc with those long fake nails?! If i paint my short nails its all chipped and ruined within a day!!
Moving away has made me realise how toxic city life really is and from what you have described life in Paris (despite being known here in the UK as the beautiful "city of love") sounds like hell.
As has already been said Mother-Son relationships can be bad, one thing male serial killers have in common is "mummy issues" and boys are also much more likely to be autistic so there is always the chance that he would have additional needs. I think most of us on here with lots of boys have at least one son who has additional needs of some form, they are becoming very common in our society now and even the doctors are very open about mums of girls not needing to worry as much, though of course girls can be affected too. Gender selection is illegal here but if you have an autistic boy they will let you have it to get a girl and supposedly avoid autism.

Im so sad to read that you feel your only option is to take your own life. I lost my mum when i was little and then a few years later i lost my dad and ended up alone at 16. I know your dh would care for your girls if you left but who would care for them if both you and dh were gone?
No amount of messages/letters/videos from you will fill the void your departure will leave in your girls lives, and your dh may very well destroy them as children often never get to read the suicide note, i guess people feel its best they never see it.
Please take the time to look up and read the experiences of people who have lost a parent to suicide, parents who just like you truly believed their children were better off without them and that they were doing the best for their children by dying.
The actual consequences of their death are never what they intended them to be.

All of the things that you want to have die with you so they dont affect your girls wont stop with your death.
They wont be judged for having an "ugly" mum but they will be heavily judged for having a mum who killed herself..
They wont have a mum who "isnt good enough for them" but they will feel that they werent good enough for you.. and then they will believe they aren't good enough for anyone.
You are doing this out of love for them but they will wonder why you didnt love them enough to stay.
You want to set them free from your inadequacies but instead you sentence them to a lifetime of grief and also a deep routed fear that everyone else will die and leave them at any given moment. (i became terrified of my dad dying after my mum went)
Grief affects children for life. It stunts their emotional growth often leaving them unable to emotionally develop beyond the age they were when the loss occured.
They will also be at a hugely increased risk of dying by suicide themselves.. as they say, the cycle continues until someone breaks the chain.
On a different note you will also rob your future self of the chance to raise a boy/s and your future son/s will also be robbed of the life they would of had.
No matter how loud the bad thoughts get know that they are not painting the full picture. There is a saying "kill your life not yourself." Change everything, move away and cut out all the negative people (get ruthless!!) do whatever it takes :heart:

**i also want to second that your english is amazing!

---

I could not have said this more eloquently than you have my dear friend :heart::agree::wink:
Time and time over have I tried to express this but came short.
Sora, there ARE options (ones that aren’t taking your own life!) and I think that you have to remember you are not alone, even if you feel so, they ARE opportunities for a better future... whether that be leave a toxic environment, the option for HT that is there actually there...
4b3p has raised very good points, and I do think the first thing to do is to take care of your immediate mental health. You say you’d be judged, maybe seek a therapist that specialises in trauma? If you could explain the background, you would feel safe to bring the GD issue on the table.
I really hope that you know , in your heart, that your girls need you, really need you - even if you feel broken. I know you love them, so for you, for them, please reach out ...:hug2: ChezIby, I never lived in Paris, do you know if there are some good local groups that provide independent free counselling etc?
That could be a starting point Sora, with the anonymity of a phonein between you? To lay out everything on your heart without the fear of judgement??? When you don’t have to face (literally) the person taking your story?

I know the hurt, I really, really, really do... while I never was suicidal, I have had dark dark thoughts too.
You have avenues, ones that can help you start healing, please consider them...
Thinking of you

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by 4blue2pink

Im sorry its taken me so long to reply to you Sora.
One thing that really jumps out at me from your posts is how you are trapped in a very negative environment.
City life, while convienient with everything right on your doorstep is like living in a fishbowl. You are overlooked from every angle all the time, you cant do anything without being watched or overheard and as a result everything you do/say is known about and then judged by others.
I know moving is a huge pain but if you can leave the city then do, you need space to be able to just breathe.
We left urban living behind 3 years ago and its the best thing we ever did, our kids have outside space to run and play in and we are no longer overlooked, meaning we no longer have every move we make judged or have to worry about the kids playing too loud or being reported by bitter people who have nothing better to do. It is honestly so freeing to not have to feel all those pairs of eyes on you everywhere you go.
We arent in total isolation, there are houses to either side of us but its open fields to the front and back of our house and we are only 5 minutes away from the nearest town, so you dont need to move to the middle of nowhere to feel the difference. The people are different too, they have no interest in spying on others they keep themselves to themselves. Even the way they dress is different no one cares what you wear, im like you im not girly at all, i dont own a single dress! I never wear makeup, i live in jeans my hair is never "styled" and no one cares here :) but where we used to live i was considered a "tramp"
Seriously though how do those women clean the house, change nappies and cook etc with those long fake nails?! If i paint my short nails its all chipped and ruined within a day!!
Moving away has made me realise how toxic city life really is and from what you have described life in Paris (despite being known here in the UK as the beautiful "city of love") sounds like hell.
As has already been said Mother-Son relationships can be bad, one thing male serial killers have in common is "mummy issues" and boys are also much more likely to be autistic so there is always the chance that he would have additional needs. I think most of us on here with lots of boys have at least one son who has additional needs of some form, they are becoming very common in our society now and even the doctors are very open about mums of girls not needing to worry as much, though of course girls can be affected too. Gender selection is illegal here but if you have an autistic boy they will let you have it to get a girl and supposedly avoid autism.

Im so sad to read that you feel your only option is to take your own life. I lost my mum when i was little and then a few years later i lost my dad and ended up alone at 16. I know your dh would care for your girls if you left but who would care for them if both you and dh were gone?
No amount of messages/letters/videos from you will fill the void your departure will leave in your girls lives, and your dh may very well destroy them as children often never get to read the suicide note, i guess people feel its best they never see it.
Please take the time to look up and read the experiences of people who have lost a parent to suicide, parents who just like you truly believed their children were better off without them and that they were doing the best for their children by dying.
The actual consequences of their death are never what they intended them to be.

All of the things that you want to have die with you so they dont affect your girls wont stop with your death.
They wont be judged for having an "ugly" mum but they will be heavily judged for having a mum who killed herself..
They wont have a mum who "isnt good enough for them" but they will feel that they werent good enough for you.. and then they will believe they aren't good enough for anyone.
You are doing this out of love for them but they will wonder why you didnt love them enough to stay.
You want to set them free from your inadequacies but instead you sentence them to a lifetime of grief and also a deep routed fear that everyone else will die and leave them at any given moment. (i became terrified of my dad dying after my mum went)
Grief affects children for life. It stunts their emotional growth often leaving them unable to emotionally develop beyond the age they were when the loss occured.
They will also be at a hugely increased risk of dying by suicide themselves.. as they say, the cycle continues until someone breaks the chain.
On a different note you will also rob your future self of the chance to raise a boy/s and your future son/s will also be robbed of the life they would of had.
No matter how loud the bad thoughts get know that they are not painting the full picture. There is a saying "kill your life not yourself." Change everything, move away and cut out all the negative people (get ruthless!!) do whatever it takes :heart:

**i also want to second that your english is amazing!

---

I'm sorry 4blue I did tell Chez but I realize not you... In fact I am a country girl. I wasted 20 years on my life in the countryside (emphasis on 'wasted') because my mother couldn't bear the city life. And what you described about city life is what I lived through in the countryside. It was there that people started calling me "unfeminine" and "weird", there where my every move and decision was heavily and negatively judged. Moving to the city was actually a life-saver and the best decision I ever made and I deeply regret not having been able to move younger and it was a lot of fighting to be able to in the first place.

I have quite the opposite experience as you and others. City life offered me opportunities (that sadly the crisis in 2008 destroyed mainly), showed me things I didn't even know existed, studies that sadly I was now too old to take but that would have changed my professionnal life so much if I could... It offered me the possibility to finally travel abroad. And exactly the reverse you say, as in : with so much people living there, all differents, with different pasts, carreers, lives and problems, I found blessed anonimity. For the first time in my life, in my late twenties, there was no stranger stopping in the street to harass me or openly mock me or even hit me (something that was common occurence where I lived : you didn't like someone, you were free to hit them if they were walking alone and people said you deserved it for not "fitting in"). No one batted an eye at my clothes, the hour I went out or came home, who I was talking with. When I was seen with someone, or doing something, whatever, people immediately forgot about it because they were in a hurry to catch the subway... In the countryside, it only took a week for the WHOLE town to know where you had gone on holidays, with whom, to do what, because everybody had nothing better to do since these towns are so deprived of everything, even movies or restaurants sometimes so let's not talk about other things ! People did spy on you, to a level that would have a dictatorship be proud. I could come back from a week-end at the mountain and have people I barely knew ask me "How was it at XXXXX with your cousin ? Oh, how do I know ? Well you know, some girls from the town went there too that day and recognized you. By the way, looks like you were wearing an ugly pink shirt and you faceplanted on your skies ? Sigh, you really make a fool of yourself anywhere you go, it's so fun !".
And that was out of town so I can't even describe IN the town. People knew where I worked, where I studied, at which hours... If they were bored, they would drop by and not necessarily for a nice talk. I actually had people sometimes pop up in front of my school or workplace and be "told you she would be here" and then proceed to mock me or harass me. Sometimes I had to call the police. Most time nothing came of it specifically because there were "women" in those groupe (who often were the one masterminding the whole thing) and as we know, serial killers are only men with mommy issues right ? Harassers are only sons of rapist ? Women are soft and peaceful and so another woman is safe with them and even if not, it's just "catfight".
Well don't worry, they knew how to throw punches and stones. Even with their painted nails. If I know at all how to fight, it's because I had to hit like a man to get them off, because thank Nature they are still weaker than men, especially when they spend their life dieting.

And why do such things ? Because I was the weird one out. The not-girly. They were eloquent enough on what they blamed me for, even their parents, even some teachers and neighboors and all. It was because I was weird. I didn't dress feminine, I didn't go to get my hair cut every two weeks, I barely put on make-up, never painted my nails... I spent my free time hanging around boys rather than girls, playing video games or drinking and laughing around and being a little rough. And if I was alone, I would put on some movie or read a book instead of shopping for new clothes, perfume, or flirting. Or hanging out with girls talking for hours about love and dresses and the best way to have a pretty skin... Everyday I had at least one person, even in my circle, sigh and tell me "What is wrong in your head ? I can't believe you're happy living like this and let's not talk about your dreams of moving in a big city full of smug assholes, unless you are one... A normal girl likes a quiet life, with her female friends, likes clothes and going to the SPA... Why aren't you the same ? Don't blame others for not treating you well, you know... You're not acting like you're supposed to so it's normal they won't act with respect either.".

And no it wasn't a particularly religious place, not even that backward because there are actually worst backward here. It was the average french country town with like a hundred thousands souls so I can't even IMAGINE life in the places that only amount to a few thousands ones.

And yeah let's not talk about the lack of schools and books and whatever... Living there was like living in limbo, as if I had never been born to begin with. And that was when I was left in peace. When I was not, it was like hell. I swore to myself I would NEVER, EVER let one of my children go through such a thing in such a toxic environnement. The problems I have in Paris ? Not only would they have happened sooner in the country (and would have killed me maybe before I even got around to having children) but they would have been ten times worse ! In Paris things started to be bad when we moved in a quiet, a bit closed-off neighboor and let's not forget that a part of the city's population (and a big part of our actual neighboors) are in fact people from the countryside that came here hoping to replay what they did back in the grasslands. So this explains that too. But it still is a handful compared to a whole town. It hurts most because this time they are attacking the mother, not the woman. But there's no way I will leave the city, not only because I fought to live there but I know what is waiting for me AND the children in the countryside : a slow death with ten times more harassment.

And I'm not build up for life in the country, I never was. I can't bear not being able to talk to someone about the last book I read (they barely know how to anyway and it's not a cliché) or my favorite movie of the year. I can't bear not being able to play music because only what's on radio is "true music". I can't bear having to hide my non-girl-approved pastimes. I won't be able to bear another round of "I know what you did last summer". I am bored by the slow pace of seasons, I am not good at gardening, I hate cycling in the wild, having a picnic under the trees is only good one day or two a month... I don't care about "the space to play" because it's empty space and after you enter the teenage years you get bored and depressed always seeing the same fields, the same faces, doing the same picnics and sports and stuff over and over and over with nothing new ever happening. Going to the school everyone goes to, doing the jobs everyone do even if you feel like you can go further, do better. It becomes a green jail and you stop liking the nature, the birds, the river. Then two things happen. Either your mind rebels and you drive yourself crazy depressed, fighting to leave, to live or you give up and you accept the slow death, turning to empty parties, alcohol and a boring job to forget about it. We saw people sometimes in that town who moved from the big cities for the reasons you gave : it usually only took three to five years for their families to break apart. Those who could left to run back to the big towns while those still clinging to their "green dreams" or simply having no money or health were left behind to spiral into depression and sometimes kill themselves. I saw it first-hand because I loved the people from the cities. They were the only ones not calling me "unfeminine" or blaming me for loving books more than painting my nails.

Well it's really up to personal experience I know. Other people might have seen or heard the opposite. I don't know. But that's what I witnessed and what shaped me. So no, no leaving Paris, unless it's for a bigger town or another country entirely. And yes it's my direct actual circle that is a problem but I didn't quite choose them, these happen to be the people living near me, working with DH, maybe working with me, going to the same shops and bringing their children to the same school. Bad luck. Though many do admit our neighboor IS a bit closed off and different from other parts of the town and that may be what helps the negative ? I think it may also be what is attracting people from the countryside just there : they only moved here for work, not because they wished for a different life, and are more than happy to find a space that is like home and where they can go around spying others again and judging.

For the suicide, I actually know children from suicidal parents and it would be much too long to explain here and even IRL, but let's say that what happened with their families either makes me actually think it's a rather good idea to die when your own loved ones don't care (they were and still are so cruel towards the deceased) or that they can survive this trial simply because... well, I don't know. They have the right mind to go through even that and live happily and in fact, what happened taught them very valuable life lessons. That's a few more people in the world knowing depression is serious and harassment, violence and such is bad and God knows that world really needs them.

Your saying is very good but sadly there's no more plan B. Having a family with a son in it was the life I wanted. I never had huge dreams like going into space or something. I did have some other dreams but they have been ruined years ago with no hope of ever happening now for many reasons. I mourned them. I'm kinda ok with loosing them though it makes me sad. But I've reached my limit in the losses I can take. I have kinda run out of things I wanted to do absolutely. And seeing a bunch of girls grow to adulthood is more of a terrifying prospect than a dream. I could deal with one, maybe two, not three and certainly not more. I can't. I can't see the future so have no way to know how it will end but there are so much ways it could go wrong I simply don't want to face that without a good thing or two under my belt. I won't be strong enough to endure a bad outcome, especially after years of hard work raising them with fear in my belly. It's sad and unfair I know if they happen to be budding nice women but I have no way to tell. I don't want to end up 20 years later, more depressed than ever, with three crazy bullies and not one good thing in my life. What happened with my mother did teach me that being blood-related with another woman is certainly no guarantee to be loved and spared. Can be true with a son too but I have much more positive experiences with boys so I feel much less worried. I have always been less afraid of walking through a group of men outside than just sitting close to a bunch of women. Even now I force myself to go up to group of moms, for my daughters' sakes only, but it feels like standing next to a pool of lava and when the kids will grow into women too, I know being in the same house will be horrible. Waking up everyday in fear of being told "ugh you're not feminine enough, could you die please ?". Cause yes, I did hear that, since childhood. "You're a failure, you're not X or Y enough, the world would be better without you in it.". Parents, adults, people my age, strangers. I'm fighting to make it not happen but I'm so tired, I just want to be able to still be myself as a mom and I can't with daughters. And provided they actually side with me, I'm so afraid of them being targeted the way I was for that. It happened to the girls and even the boys siding with me and it's horrible to see that, good people being threatened with "if you are with that thing, expect to be treated the same way".

Sorry I'm feeling very sick rn remembering all this I can't answer more or to others. I'll see you later.

Dont appologise :) i must have missed the post where you said you grew up in the countryside and only saw the ones where you said you were having problems with your current neighbours and people reporting you etc.. If Paris is where you want to be then stay :heart: But if you feel a different area of the city would be better for you then maybe consider a move within Paris?

You are right, despite their soft feminine exterior women can be truly evil, they will obsess and plot and scheme on a level i dont think many men are capable of. Men are so much more straightforward to deal with. I have also always preferred to be around men and honestly your description of yourself sounds so like me. I never wanted to hang out with girls or go shopping etc.. the girly side of life never interested me and in my case it was always blamed on me not having a mum. Even now as an adult i still feel more comfortable around men.

I probably shouldnt say this and it is a massive generalisation... but from what you describe there seems to be a real bullying culture in France? especially amoung the women. How can it be acceptable for them to behave this way? Why is the bullying not stopped early by their parents or the schools? is it seen as ok for your daughters to bully others just as long as they act very feminine the rest of the time? (Im happy to be corrected here ive never lived in France)
And for the people who told you you should die its horrifying that those sort of comments were allowed to be thrown around so freely and by adults too?!

Your girls wont be like that, why? because they are being raised by you. Someone who understands the damage words can do and also understands the value of kindness in a very unkind world.

You are right that children who lose parents learn big life lessons from it and in a way yes those lessons are actually a positive for them. I know that i was much more self-sufficient than my classmates and as you say also much more aware of what i said and the impacts of my behaviour, it made me grow up quick! But they lose out on so much too and if they are bitter towards the deceased it will be a hatred of what they put them through when they died which wouldnt translate to a hatred of that person if they were alive.

I did read your post on adoption and i completely understand your feelings on not wanting to adopt a child yourself. Would you consider putting your baby girl up for adoption? If you are against it just ignore this suggestion!! I do want to be very clear that i am not suggesting this because i think your baby is better off being adopted, i just want to put it out there in case it seems like a positive option for you :heart: and dont give up on your HT dreams, it sounds as though it could be a real option for you? If it is then go for it, to hell with what others might think or say, this is your life and you live it your way!

Are you able to speak with your husband about your feelings, especially the suicidal thoughts? Sending you love, i hope you feel able to keep posting here, we are all here to support you xx