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Originally Posted by Complex Emotions

The more I think about high tech, the more I'm certain it's not for us. I used to have hope for Microsort, but now that seems futile since it's illegal in the US and international Microsort barely ever works for anyone.

I've thought about IVF/PGD but somehow I know we'll never go through with it. It's difficult to explain why... but I've realized this to the extent that if our only two choices were either have a daughter with IVF/PGD or to not have a second child, I'd choose no second child. Somehow the answer is not as intuitive to me when the options are a second naturally conceived baby boy versus an IVF/PGD daughter. Yet I still solidly know that we won't pursue IVF/PGD. Maybe you'll think this means we just shouldn't have a second child...the thought of not trying makes me profoundly sad.

I've been feeling old and acutely aware of timing passing by. It's never gone well when I've tried to control the aspects of life not within my control. The sway is starting to take a lot out of me. Sometimes I long to relinquish our situation to the beauty of chance and fate. To God. I know a second son precludes our hopes for a daughter. I'm terrified part of me would resent him for that... but maybe it wouldn't be such a huge deal in time. Don't mothers always have complicated emotions about their children? I have to believe we would still love him wholly.

I've heard it said in some cultures that "A son is life's greatest blessing." In my own life I have found it to be true. I can only imagine how wonderful a daughter would be, but I'm certain of the majesty of life with a little boy. I worry that in order for us to move forward, maybe I need to find a way to be comfortable anticipating with one-hundred percent certainty that our baby would be a boy. Maybe I'm getting closer to being there. I think of our handsome young nephews on my husband's side of the family... maybe nature knows more than I do about what's for the best. The longing for my daughter is deep, relentless, and valid... but I have to believe in the wisdom of the natural world.

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I can so relate to all this....your longing is definitely valid.
Give yourself time to process.


My perspective from the other side : Two boys are pretty awesome, I'll have to quote Atomic here in that "boys should come in pairs like shoes" nothing truer has been said! I watch my two and they love eachother deeply only like brothers can and I would not change it for the world. Plus the opportunity to raise strong yet vulnerable, successful yet loving MEN is a gift not to be taken lightly :)

It will all make sense, it's great you are here thinking about it and coming to terms with everything.

i recommend a look at the (imperfect) book "Stiffed" by Susan Faludi. There's a section on the Citadel (which was once an all-boys military school in the US, but now isn't any more, for better or worse) and how an all boy-education may help men get more in touch with their "feminine" side because they don't HAVE to impress girls and thus don't have to act uber-masculine. There's a part where an older student is showing a younger student how to tuck in their shirt, and it's the kind of totally asexual, physical, loving connection that brothers and straight men living together in close quarters have, that oftentimes is sexualized by Hollywood into "homoeroticism" for lack of a better term - but boys and men need that. It's Sam and Frodo, it's Woody and Buzz, it's Bert and Ernie, it's Han and Luke, and Bart and Milhouse, and Batman and Robin, and Kirk and Spock and Bones, and and Peter Parker and Harry Osborne and and a thousand other iconic male-male pairs. I see that all the time with my sons and their brothers. It's like a friendship and caretaking and camaraderie between men that is of late turned into something other than what it really is, to all our detriment. They love each other, and it's a kind of love that is precious and valuable to the world. :agree:

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Originally Posted by Complex Emotions

The more I think about high tech, the more I'm certain it's not for us. I used to have hope for Microsort, but now that seems futile since it's illegal in the US and international Microsort barely ever works for anyone.

I've thought about IVF/PGD but somehow I know we'll never go through with it. It's difficult to explain why... but I've realized this to the extent that if our only two choices were either have a daughter with IVF/PGD or to not have a second child, I'd choose no second child. Somehow the answer is not as intuitive to me when the options are a second naturally conceived baby boy versus an IVF/PGD daughter. Yet I still solidly know that we won't pursue IVF/PGD. Maybe you'll think this means we just shouldn't have a second child...the thought of not trying makes me profoundly sad.

I've been feeling old and acutely aware of timing passing by. It's never gone well when I've tried to control the aspects of life not within my control. The sway is starting to take a lot out of me. Sometimes I long to relinquish our situation to the beauty of chance and fate. To God. I know a second son precludes our hopes for a daughter. I'm terrified part of me would resent him for that... but maybe it wouldn't be such a huge deal in time. Don't mothers always have complicated emotions about their children? I have to believe we would still love him wholly.

I've heard it said in some cultures that "A son is life's greatest blessing." In my own life I have found it to be true. I can only imagine how wonderful a daughter would be, but I'm certain of the majesty of life with a little boy. I worry that in order for us to move forward, maybe I need to find a way to be comfortable anticipating with one-hundred percent certainty that our baby would be a boy. Maybe I'm getting closer to being there. I think of our handsome young nephews on my husband's side of the family... maybe nature knows more than I do about what's for the best. The longing for my daughter is deep, relentless, and valid... but I have to believe in the wisdom of the natural world.

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I understand totally. HT has never been for me either. I don't know why because I completely support it for literally everyone, but me. Just doesn't feel right to me, maybe because I always knew or sensed that I could live without a daughter. I got one, by the grace of God or the universe, but at the end of the day I always knew from day one I could and WOULD get through this, daughter or no. My daughter is a gift, she is the cherry on top of a pretty f-ng awesome sundae but I knew and know, at the end of it all, in my heart and gut that I would still be here telling you guys, IT IS OK to have only sons, you are still endlessly blessed, even if I had not gotten a daughter. Sons are a miracle and I see plenty of women who I started this journey with, in 2008, who didn't keep having kids like I did, and hung with 2 or 3 or boys, and they are HAPPY!!! Their lives are beautiful and amazing. They drink margaritas on a beach with their husband in Mexico. Their sons win awards for music or swimming, or robotics, or academics. I have 4 of the most beautiful treasures in the world and that hasn't changed because I had a daughter, not at all!!! When you're in it, it feels all encompassing, but once the decision is made, things are ok. It's just another dream that did or didn't come true. These sites are great when you need the support but we aren't always the best at helping people move forward, maybe because we are still in it. But you CAN move on with your life and have a great life even if you don't get your desired gender. :)

No more weight loss. Do whatever it takes to stop the unintentional weight loss right away.

I don't feel we have the data to say for sure if the release beforehand helps or hurts a sway. Not enough people did it and the whole thing is skewed by the one attempt. So personally, I'd leave it out, I never recommend it any more, not because of the stress, but because it's gonna cut your odds of conception so much for a dubious benefit anyway.

You CAN'T change your brain. Don't try. It was never ever ever x infinity and beyond, my intention to start having you guys launch into these modes where you think you're going to turn yourself into someone else for a sway. The ONLY ONLY ONLY reason I ever mentioned it was because historically people would treat swaying pink as a game they could win, like if they sacrificed hard enough, controled every aspect in their lifes, did every sway tactic ever rumored to do anything, tracked their cycles for years and made colorcoded pH charts, etc they would then be guaranteed a daughter. But it is the trying to control that sways blue, and so to trade that stuff for laying in bed thinking "OMG OMG I gotta turn into Mary, I'm ruining my sway, gotta calm down" and practicing hours of Shaolin breathing techniques to "calm down" (being just this side of a panic attack the whole time of course) is JUST as bad if not worse even.

I promise ya, I'm the exact same person I was when I conceived my boys, when I conceived my girl. I didn't turn into someone else, I was just slightly more defeated and mellow, and may I point out that we don't KNOW that even had any connection to why I conceived a girl, and additionally we don't KNOW that it was any deliberate change in attitude that accomplished that, or (much more likely) a side effect of chronic stress, sleep loss, and LE Diet.

oh and everything else looking good. :agree:

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Originally Posted by Complex Emotions

Thank you Atomic, Thank you Sweetplum, Thank you Maiden, and anyone out there who's reading this. The last few weeks have been difficult, but it helps to not feel so alone. I know no matter how all this goes for our family, many many many other families have experienced all the same feelings.

We're heading closer towards the time when we'll either try or not try for February. A while back I'd thought February would be the perfect month for a variety of reasons but now I'm hovering between hopelessness, obsession, acceptance, and even indifference. Once in a while I still just get excited about the possibility of a new baby to love. At other times I'm still really not sure if any of this is a good idea.

Just today I noticed that my stupid butter has added vitamin D in it... well whatever, gotta let that one just roll off my back. I bought a new butter ...tastes terrible.

I'm not making any decisions for now, just gonna let the next days come. In case we do move forward my sway has shaped up to look like this:

Diet:
Over three months of bland, repetitive, vegetarian (almost vegan) foods (rice, noodles, bread, legumes, veggies, ego waffles, peanut butter, oil, butter)
Over six months low salt
Relatively low protein/high carb with moderate to high calcium from almond milk, low fat calcium hot chocolate, limited cheese
Gradual switch over from omega three fats to more omega six fats
No breakfast or snacks most days
Two or so peppermint teas per day from period through ovulation
Slow, super gradual and unintentional weight loss, doing my best to hold steady at BMI 18.5.

Supplements:
Calcium, Magnesium, Iron, Zinc, Iodine (using Atomic's dosing recommendations to meet minimum needs) Folic acid has ranged between 800-1200 (now sticking to 1200)

Exercise:
Over 60 min per day aerobics plus frequent long walks at least six days a week for three months

Sex Plan:
One attempt at positive OPK
Missionary
No female O
One release beforehand?
J+D after five min

Is there anything you'd recommend I take out or add? Is the one release beforehand a good idea or just worthless added stress? The whole swaying thing stresses my husband out so I don't think it's a good idea to ask him to do anything else. I might make us a few pitchers of Crystal Light pink lemonade to drink over the next couple of days.

I know some of my personality/brain/hormone stuff might sway blue. What can I do about it? Probably nothing. I don't normally drink alcohol or coffee but I tried them both today and it was nice to have a change. For a while they broke me out of dark thoughts. Both typically destroy my ability to sleep, but I guess insomnia is good for pink. So maybe I'll just let February go by the wayside and try a month of coffee and booze, a "Month of Mary" and see what kind of Mary I could turn into...

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I'm new to this and absolutely not an expert but I think your plan seems to hit on all the buttons in terms of leaning for a girl. That said, there are no guarantees and I have this feeling that no matter what happens for you it will be just wonderful and you'll embrace it, maybe with time or maybe immediately, that includes not moving forward with TTC too. You seem quite rigorous in thought and intuitive, and of course, that will lead to obsessing but also to enlightenment :)

BMI of 18.5 seems so low...I used to be anorexic but I'm no where near to that thin now so I kinda agree to eat up and not worry about weight loss.

When it comes to the personality thing, I agree 100% that you cannot change it, it's the circumstances that may drag you down into the melancholy that seems to sway girl (at least from what I've read). I'm so new to all this but I'd have to say that if the 'defeated' hypothesis was always true, then every women in their 40s would all be having girls....really by that time in life we are so beaten down by our other children, dreams that have died and well, life, that it would seem that we would all have girls, but we don't...so as Atomic says it's really just trends and combinations. I wouldn't worry about the personality thing too much, just be who you are, let life happen and sink in to the imperfection and randomness of it. Easier said than done, right ?!? (Coming from the Ultimate Perfectionist).

Keep us posted, I'm really excited to hear what you do and I (secretly) hope you'll go for it :)

????Whaaaaaaa??????

Am I the only chick who LIKES being in her 40's??

Some sh!tty stuff has happened to me along the way but it has f-all to do with being 45. I love being this age. I find it very freeing and if I would've had to go through the stuff I have gone through, in my 20's when I was still super duper uptight about everything, my head would have exploded. Yeah, I felt defeated at the time I conceived my daughter, but then again that was 3 1/2 years ago and it's gone away and things are feeling pretty upbeat for me now. And again, I have no way of knowing if that had any connection anyway or if it was diet + one attempt.

So many people misinterpret what I"m trying to say into some sort of "girl moms are depressed losers" thing. THAT IS NOT WHAT I'M SAYING AT ALL. If anything, I think being a Mary is SUPERIOR to being a Martha because you have learned or know instinctively what is important and don't waste all this time spinning your wheels over crap that doesn't matter and feeling like a failure all the time because of the grand plans that don't work out (because they'd take a cast of thousands and a million dollars to do them.) I think that on the whole people who are inherently Mary or have a good balance between extremes, are happier and more successful than those of us who are the full on Martha types because we just burn ourselves up on stuff that either doesn't matter to other people, or that they actively dislike, in that way that people always tend to dislike people who try to outdo everybody else at stuff. :/

I am just trying to explain a very complicated thing very simply and it's not easy. I just don't want girl moms to walk away from this convo with a bad taste in their mouths. :)

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Originally Posted by atomic sagebrush

????Whaaaaaaa??????

Am I the only chick who LIKES being in her 40's??

Some sh!tty stuff has happened to me along the way but it has f-all to do with being 45. I love being this age. I find it very freeing and if I would've had to go through the stuff I have gone through, in my 20's when I was still super duper uptight about everything, my head would have exploded. Yeah, I felt defeated at the time I conceived my daughter, but then again that was 3 1/2 years ago and it's gone away and things are feeling pretty upbeat for me now. And again, I have no way of knowing if that had any connection anyway or if it was diet + one attempt.

So many people misinterpret what I"m trying to say into some sort of "girl moms are depressed losers" thing. THAT IS NOT WHAT I'M SAYING AT ALL. If anything, I think being a Mary is SUPERIOR to being a Martha because you have learned or know instinctively what is important and don't waste all this time spinning your wheels over crap that doesn't matter and feeling like a failure all the time because of the grand plans that don't work out (because they'd take a cast of thousands and a million dollars to do them.) I think that on the whole people who are inherently Mary or have a good balance between extremes, are happier and more successful than those of us who are the full on Martha types because we just burn ourselves up on stuff that either doesn't matter to other people, or that they actively dislike, in that way that people always tend to dislike people who try to outdo everybody else at stuff. :/

I am just trying to explain a very complicated thing very simply and it's not easy. I just don't want girl moms to walk away from this convo with a bad taste in their mouths. :)

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I agree with you 100%.

I'm loving my 40s and it's because I am more relaxed and accepting of the fact that life sometimes goes the way you want it to and well, it sometimes doesn't and that is OK and I basically worry less about everything. Using 'defeated' bit was too harsh in the wording, what I mean is that by our 40s we are more 'accepting' of the ups and downs of life and more low key. I'm DEFINITELY more accepting in my 40s than even 5 years ago when I tried to control everything and do it all perfectly. So I guess what I meant is that when we get to this point of more maturity I think some of us who were previously 100% Martha do become more Mary just due to the course of stuff happening and being defeated (at times). I definitely was beat down and defeated in the past few years and this has changed me...since I tried to control EVERYTHING with my first two (actually three - one miscarriage) pregnancies and kept getting the short straw when it came to my health and my kids health (big time) I realized that well, it doesn't matter how much you plan it all down to the last detail, life happens and it's good to be organized but all that worrying and stressing won't matter for the big stuff, a lot of life is out of our control and how we adapt is more important than stressing and planning and controlling.

I hope that makes more sense. I'm definitely not here to offend or judge. I think there are great qualities to both Mary and Martha and my point was that I'm pretty sure you can be a Martha and still get a girl or a Mary and still get a boy as this is not a perfect science. It's about trends and combinations and many more variables than just one single isolated thing...I just wanted Complex Emotions to not try to change her personality as I think these things happen naturally through the course of ones life :)

No it was my fault, I used "defeated" to begin with without clarifying that it happened to be true for me personally when I got pg with my DD and not that it was a larger trend or anything. Sometimes I write too many posts in one day and get verbal diarrhea LOL.

I agree with every word you say, it's that over time life beats it out of ya one way or the other, for better or for worse (because there are honestly some things I miss about my Martha ways) but overall it's good for all of us to learn to let go of the control-freak-ishness. :agree: Completely agree.

Hi complex,how are you feeling ? Oh yes plz make sure your getting enough potassium ts so very important to your health, what I do daily to make Sure I'm getting enough is eat my grapes and skim milk , potatoes here or there and cauliflower.xx take care of your self