UK SMOG Wannabes - March

sunset - i completely agree with you about the legalization of PGD whilst abortion is also legal. I myself carnt really comment to much on abortion as i have had two myself and wouldn't want to sound too hypocritical. But id just like to point out that i was very young when i had them (under 16) i felt pushed into having them by my parents at the time and i was with my partner i have now. I was a very unruly child at the time. my parents hated my bf and wouldnt let me see him. i used to skive off school everyday just to see him. when i was grounded during school holidays i would sneak out of the house when they were asleep so i could meet him. Then at one point i ran away from home and she got the social services to come and bring me back. As you have probably guessed i was off the rails! After the second abortion it was really a big wake up call for me. i just regretted it since the moment it happened. my mam knew it had affected me but im a strong person and dont like to show my feelings so when she tried to get me counseling i wouldn't co-operate. Eventually after time things started to get better but i always wanted that baby i had got rid of. Thats why i think i had ds1 quite young i mean i was 17 when i fell pregnant and 18 when i had him but i felt it was the right time for me to have a baby. when i fell pg with ds1 i just coudnt bring myself to tell my parents as i didnt want them to pressurise me into trying to have another baby aborted so i kept it a serect stayed away from home and moved in with my dp's parents with them and barely spoke to my mam. Eventually word got to her that i was pregnant and she asked me if it was true and i told her i was and i wasnt getting rid of it. she told me i was ruining my life etc etc. after time she accepted it and was there for his birth and my parents put aside their differences with my dp and got on. Now i can honestly say i have never had an arguement or dissagreement with my mam or my dad for nearly 6 yrs. When i think about it now its all so very sad and i wish it never had happened but i always knew that i couldnt go through with it again.

i watched this morning yesturday and they had a news report saying that 2 medical experts were wanting to legalise after birth abortions. Meaning that the lady could have the option of going through the whole 9 months of pregnancy giving birth to the baby and then having the option to have the baby aborted. especially if the baby was born with disabilitys etc. i thought that was absolutely horrific! couldnt imagine anyone going through that and coming out the end of it without any mental issues further on. and like phil and holly said who on earth would carry out the job in aborting the newborn baby? just so sad!

Charlie - ive really got you on my mind at the mo! depression is terrible! i hope you can pull yourself through it all! big hugs to you. xxx

Lmw, holy cow I never saw that on the telly that's crazy! Sorry but it's not abortion it's just plain murder.

I believe people have the right to choice and if an abortion is part of that then its ok by me, but I don't think I could have one. I did think about it with ds1 as I was young also (19).
Having said that I havent been in a financial situation like your friend sunset so I don't think I can comment unless I'm in that situation iyswim?
I do think it's crazy people can look down on gender selection and not on abortion, I think it's pretty hypocritical! But hey who am I to judge others!

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Originally Posted by littlemisswilko

sunset - i completely agree with you about the legalization of PGD whilst abortion is also legal. I myself carnt really comment to much on abortion as i have had two myself and wouldn't want to sound too hypocritical. But id just like to point out that i was very young when i had them (under 16) i felt pushed into having them by my parents at the time and i was with my partner i have now. I was a very unruly child at the time. my parents hated my bf and wouldnt let me see him. i used to skive off school everyday just to see him. when i was grounded during school holidays i would sneak out of the house when they were asleep so i could meet him. Then at one point i ran away from home and she got the social services to come and bring me back. As you have probably guessed i was off the rails! After the second abortion it was really a big wake up call for me. i just regretted it since the moment it happened. my mam knew it had affected me but im a strong person and dont like to show my feelings so when she tried to get me counseling i wouldn't co-operate. Eventually after time things started to get better but i always wanted that baby i had got rid of. Thats why i think i had ds1 quite young i mean i was 17 when i fell pregnant and 18 when i had him but i felt it was the right time for me to have a baby. when i fell pg with ds1 i just coudnt bring myself to tell my parents as i didnt want them to pressurise me into trying to have another baby aborted so i kept it a serect stayed away from home and moved in with my dp's parents with them and barely spoke to my mam. Eventually word got to her that i was pregnant and she asked me if it was true and i told her i was and i wasnt getting rid of it. she told me i was ruining my life etc etc. after time she accepted it and was there for his birth and my parents put aside their differences with my dp and got on. Now i can honestly say i have never had an arguement or dissagreement with my mam or my dad for nearly 6 yrs. When i think about it now its all so very sad and i wish it never had happened but i always knew that i couldnt go through with it again.

i watched this morning yesturday and they had a news report saying that 2 medical experts were wanting to legalise after birth abortions. Meaning that the lady could have the option of going through the whole 9 months of pregnancy giving birth to the baby and then having the option to have the baby aborted. especially if the baby was born with disabilitys etc. i thought that was absolutely horrific! couldnt imagine anyone going through that and coming out the end of it without any mental issues further on. and like phil and holly said who on earth would carry out the job in aborting the newborn baby? just so sad!

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lmw bless your heart sounds like you had a really hard time as a teenager. dont think you need to justify your reasons for aborting, as i said i don't judge anyone and I think it's good that we do have that choice in england these days.. all i tried to say is i dont understand the logic that we have free will wether to keep a baby or not, but we can't perform PGD because it's thought of as "playing god" when in fact all we do is to put a sperm and an egg together and leave the rest up to god. as humans we are never in charge of creating life, just because we penetrate an egg with a xx sperm in a dish doesnt mean it's going to develope into a blastocyst.. that part is completely up to god, we just create a window of opportunity. this debate is just so ridiculous as we can then take it one step further and say IVF to treat infertility is wrong as well because if god intended infertile people to have children they would then fall pregnant naturally etc etc. when really we should see it as a great gift that we do have the technology to help infertile couples to conceive and for other couples to balance out their families with that daughter or son they so desperately long for.

about the aborting after birth debate.. that must be the most terrible thing i have ever heard!!! how can someone even suggest to make murder legal! that also brings on the question that at what point does a baby/child get human rights? can we perform after birth abortions up until 1 day old? 1 week old? 2 months? 5 years? 18 years? thank heavens in england today we have human rights and do so from 24 weeks of pregnancy!!
i guess these doctors or whoever was pro after birth abortions were men? they dont say you experience a gush of love for your baby at birth for nothing. it's called mother nature!

heres the article in the sun

Slaughter newborn kids, say academics | The Sun |News|Politics

Wow I cannot believe that!! Crazy....I also consider once it's born, it's a child and therefore that would be murder.

Sunset, I agree completely with you about the legalization of abortion but the outrage about PGD. I also agree with your idea that women are already creating "designer lives" by choosing what children to keep, etc etc, so how can sex selection be much different than what's already going on?

Personally, I couldn't have an abortion. That's just me. I don't think I've ever said this on this forum, but when I was pregnant with DS1, I had occular melanoma. It was cancer in my left eye.

My OB wanted me to have an abortion, because I was still in my first trimester. After talking to my oncologist about it, he said that my cancer was caught early and very confined in my eye and he said the possible amount of radiation that my baby *might* recieve would be the equivilent of flying across the country (US). So both my eye and cancer doctors really reassured me that everything would be OK to keep going. I mean, I would have really been hard pressed to have an abortion. The doctors would have really had to tell me something atricious would happen to me or the baby if I had kept the pregnancy. I was 29 and although DS1 was an opps, I had desperately wanted to be pg for years, but my DH (boyfriend) at time, wasn't ready, so when the pregnancy happened, I was so grateful that having cancer on top of it felt very cruel, like fate was trying to take away what I had so longed for.

DS1 is now a happy 4 year old, funny, silly, big dimples, just pure amazing. He's in great health. DS2 is a chubby, grouchy 10 month old who wants things his way or the highway.

Anyhow, it's been 5 years since I have had cancer, and I'm healthy, and of course pregnant with number 3. I could have stopped after DS1, but I really wanted a big family, and I think if anything ever did happen to me (we never do know what's going to happen), I still think giving my kids siblings will be a great gift; to have each other.

Sorry for going on and on....love you guys.

On another note, I don't judge anyone for having an abortion. I really, truly believe every woman has to live the life she feels best. Life is not easy, so therefore I cannot look at someone else's life and see what is right/wrong for them. I can only guide my own the best I know how :)

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Originally Posted by littlemisswilko

heres the article in the sun

Slaughter newborn kids, say academics | The Sun |News|Politics

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OMG!!! shocking....

auroara78 im so happy to hear you're doing well now!! it must have been very frightening to suffer from cancer..life really isnt fair sometimes

Sunset, it was, and I still sometimes am afriad to be really happy, I sort of lost trust in things being OK because I've seen the other side and I know how scary life can sometimes be...on the other hand, my cancer treatment was just 4 days of a localized radiation, and my dear friend and cousin, Jennifer, who is only 41, has stage 2 breast cancer and has been fighting it since LAST August!!

Compared to her journey mine was thankfully very short. I am thankful all the time of finding it early, etc, and I decided after I had cancer, that I wasn't going to stop or change my life plans because of it, I was going to keep living the way I imagined for myself, and I wasn't going to let it hold me back, or be afraid to do something.

It's not something I like to talk about very much because of the preconcieved notions of cancer and then having kids. Many people would think i was totally crazy for going on and having 3 kids after such a diagnosis, but cancer is one of those things now that isn't a death sentence, and treatments have come a long way. It's really very dependent on a lot of factors, that a person has to weigh, etc.

Aww Auroara, you have every right to have children!! so glad you found the cancer early and in the clear now :-)

LMW, that sounds awful what you have been though, so glad you and your mum get on well now thou :-)

That artical is just the worst, who in gods name would do such a thing? disgusting.

How are you doing maybe? 3 days and counting!!!!!!! x