The lure of Lubes!!

UPDATED 12-13-17

I thought it would be helpful to have an overview of ALL swaying lubes in one spot to kind of compare them.

:ttcboy: BLUE SWAYING LUBES - Use only those sold as "sperm safe" or "conception friendly". All other lubes on the market are at least somewhat sperm-unfriendly and sway pink as a result.

:agree:Pre Seed http://www.preseed.com/ Specially designed to help people get pregnant, Pre Seed is very sperm friendly and sways blue by ensuring maximum sperm survival. Pre Seed was designed in a lab to be as similar to EWCM as is possible!

:agree: Conceive Plus: Similar to Preseed and also atomic-approved. I do not know which if either one is better, both are fine by me.

:agree: any sperm safe, conception friendly lube is fine.

:agree: Perhaps the best boy friendly lube of all is our own fertile EWCM. You can increase your CM in many different ways, including guaifenesin http://genderdreaming.com/forum/ttc-....html#post2717 staying hydrated (lemon water, y'all! http://genderdreaming.com/forum/ttc-...dly-beverages= ) .

Do NOT use Fertile CM as it appeared to dry up the cervical mucus in at least half of the people who took it, it seemed to cause really wacky, messed up cycles, and a LOT of the people who took it got girls anyway!

Sexual arousal is also a good way to improve EWCM. Foreplay in advance of DTD is a great idea, whatever turns you on (literally!!) Lucky blue swayers, orgasm is a very important part of a blue sway because it increases the natural lubricants that your own body produces!! So a female orgasm BEFORE your attempt is a fabulous idea for blue. If you can have one before and after, maybe even better. https://genderdreaming.com/forum/gen...s-swaying.html

:thumbsdown: Coconut oil. Sperm are not designed to swim through oil and there is NO EARTHLY WAY that as many sperm will get to the egg in an oily, greasy environment as one that has exclusively semen and EWCM. Sperm is made to live in semen and EWCM ONLY. NO coconut oil, I don't care who tells you to use it, or how safe they say it is, if sperm were made to swim through oil, our vaginas would be oily. They are not oily! NO COCONUT OIL!

:thumbsdown: Saliva. Believe it or not, saliva actually kills sperm and is recommended to avoid for anyone trying to conceive. Most people can conceive anyway after using it as a lube, but that's the official verdict from the intrepid researchers who study stuff like this.

:thumbsdown: Egg whites - While they are said to sway blue I cannot and will not recommend the egg whites EVER because we have some pretty good anecdotal evidence that it is causing or contributing to miscarriage and possible death. A woman who swayed with egg whites back on Ingender ended up getting a salmonella infection in her uterus that ate its way into her spine and brain and while it's possible it was all just a crazy coincidence, since we have tons of studies that show salmonella = miscarriage in humans and animals I literally cannot allow anyone to use it on my watch.

Even pasteurized egg whites are a no-go for me because you can get salmonella in your VJ from your rear end or from hubby (it is possible to get a salmonella infection in your uterus that way and this comes straight from the doctor of the woman who nearly died) and egg whites are literally a perfect medium for bacteria (not only salmonella either, BTW). Egg whites grow germs so well that is what they grow vaccines in.

So you're shooting a bunch of stuff that is perfect for microorganisms to grow, into your VJ right when your cervix - the path to your uterus itself - is wide open and your pH is at its highest. This creates a situation where it's like offering an invitation for nasty bugs. Anything in your VJ to start with (like yeast and other bacteria) anything that is on DH when you have attempt, anything that's on your hands or around your rear end - and even if you're a super clean person it is impossible to get rid of it all - will be able to set up shop and grow its way right into your uterus, your Fallopian tubes, and can harm a developing pregnancy and even your long term fertility.

Egg whites feel very unsafe to me and when we were using them, people were having really low rates of conception anyway. Just because egg whites have a similar consistency to EWCM they are totally different things chemically and physically and sperm are not designed to go through egg whites. Preseed is designed by scientists to be as close to EWCM as is possible. NO EGG WHITES!

Beyond all that, it's totally unproven that Y sperm like high pH anyway and if they do, common sense dictates that if they like high pH, then they would stay in the egg whites (which are higher pH than anything up inside your reproductive tract!!) and never find the egg!! I have a full explanation here: http://genderdreaming.com/forum/gend...ph-pickle.html

Preseed or Conceive Plus are much better options and I strongly (emphatically) advise against egg whites.

:ttcgirl: ALL other lubes on the market sway pink to some extent, because they're all somewhat hostile to sperm. Update - please note that in our results over the past 7 years, NONE of these lubes has been very effective with the same number of people getting girls with and without them. Use them if you want, but don't expect them to help your sway any (be sure you're doing diet, exercise, one attempt - which DO work) and they really do cut odds of conception considerably so be sure you're dropping lubes before giving up on the things that DO work!

:agree: Acijel - This was once believed to be the best product available for TTC pink, although our results have not backed that claim up. It was actually designed to sway, as opposed to other products which were designed either as lubricants or to maintain a healthy vaginal pH. Contains acetic acid, which is believed to help sway pink.

:agree: Replens and RepHresh (Link)http://www.rephresh.com/ If you use these every three days, they help with maintaining healthy vaginal pH of 4-5 and providing moisture. RepHresh also contains acetic acid and will actually lower pH of semen and CM by reacting with it chemically. Replens is simply low in pH. Our results have not backed up RepHresh or Replens being in any way helpful to a sway.

:agree: Sylk http://www.sylkonline.com/ is a natural personal lubricant with a pH of 4.7. The Sylk website states outright that Sylk is hostile to sperm. In terms of girl-friendly lubes, that are meant to just act as sexual lubricants, I think this is the best one. Acijel, Replens, and RepHresh all seem to work best as part of a sway and then you can ADD Sylk to your attempt as a lubricant. Unfortunately Sylk has not gotten great results either, seeming to not help our success rates at all. AT least, unlike Acijel, Replens, and RepHresh, it's a good lube, although it's really expensive and hard to get. I wouldn't bother with it, but of all the choices at least it works for comfy BD!

:agree:Astroglide http://www.astroglideaustralia.com/ An easy to find, affordable lube that is pH balanced to mimic the natural pH of the vagina (I couldn't find a specific number but that seems to mean between 4.5-5). I think Sylk is better, but Astroglide is ok.

:agree: KY jelly. NOT the same pH as the vagina (it's higher but I couldn't find the exact number). Not a good choice for swaying. Here's an interesting article that EVERYONE should read, it's about more than just KY and sort of explains why some of these lubes are hostile to sperm and therefore sway pink. Honestly, as bad/ineffective as the other lubes and jellies have been for pink, at least I've heard anecdotally of some people getting girls after using KY, and it is cheap. If you need a lube and don't want to pay out the nose to order Sylk online, why not KY? It does kill sperm though.
http://www.theecologist.org/green_gr..._ky_jelly.html

:thumbsdown: Saliva. Believe it or not, saliva actually kills sperm and is recommended to avoid for anyone trying to conceive. Plus it's high in pH anyway if that matters to you. Most people can conceive anyway after using it as a lube, but that's the official verdict from the intrepid researchers who study stuff like this.

:thumbsdown: Canola oil. It's messy, greasy, pretty high in pH (6.8). Oils tend to trigger vaginal infections and eat away at rubber meaning you can't use them with a Diva/Instead cup or with the Hole-in-the-condom method. With the better options out there, DON'T BOTHER with it.

Plus, sperm are not designed to swim through oil and there is NO EARTHLY WAY that as many sperm will get to the egg in an oily, greasy environment as one that has exclusively semen and EWCM. Sperm is made to live in semen and EWCM ONLY. NO canola oil, I don't care who tells you to use it, or how safe they say it is, if sperm were made to swim through oil, our vaginas would be oily. They are not oily! NO CANOLA OIL!

Pink swayers, please take note - if you have gone on TTC for a long time and have not conceived OR are super dry and need something OR are on Clomid/Femara, you can use a small amount of sperm safe, conception friendly jelly (such as Preseed or Conceive Plus) as a lube. Larger amounts sway blue so use the barest minimum you can for comfy intercourse - just a fingertip is enough for many people. More info here. http://genderdreaming.com/forum/tryi...-ttc-girl.html

Great info! And I agree, I've seen far too many boy conceptions with Canola oil. I tried it once during a practice attempt and it was sooo messy! Sylk worked great as a lube for us and we used replens finger every few days as well as after we made our attempt. In some women replens and/or aci jel, even sylk, can increase pH so they have to be sure to test out all the lubes first. For me the only thing that seems to raise my pH is the best product out there, aci jel! haha. Great post!

I agree that everyone should test in advance but I do believe that the bump in pH may be temporary (your body reacting to a foreign substance by producing fluid to wash it away. I hope everyone gives it a few tries to see if it is consistently raises pH or if your body "gets used" to it.

Oh and they also sway pink because they're hostile to sperm, not only because of pH, so even if your pH does go up a little, the additional benefits may outweigh the pH.

ooh, i see what you mean. So there might be hope with aci jel for me after all! :) I just think the 4 hour after the attempt is crucial, especially since I like the abstinance with a cut off technique. If I can keep my pH low for those 4 hours using a combo of replens or aci jel and lime douche, that may be the way to go, kwim? Scared me too much to have my pH any higher than 5 at any point in the 4 hour period

Only with a cut off though. 4 hours after O+12, the sperm has already left the building because the egg is calling to it.

I really hope you read my guide to Replens and RepHresh because RepHresh may actually work better in the long term at keeping pH low during a cutoff.

very very interesting! Thanks so much for this info. Just finished reading your post about replens and rephresh.

Rephresh does seem to be better in the long run!
Like when used the day after the attempt. But you can't use it with lime douche, that's the only thing that worries me since lime douche is the only thing that worked for me last time. Definitely something to think about though, fabulous info!

There's no way of knowing what really and truly worked for you though. Maybe it was the lime douche, maybe it was the Sylk, the diet, or some combination of them!! I'm just glad it worked out for you because your little girl is a DOLL!!

yeah that's very very true, there is just nooo way of knowing what worked, and I bet it was just a combo of everything.

Awww, and thank you!!!! You're boys are soooo adorable also! I can't believe Marshall is ONE already, time really does fly :0)

Thanks!! I know, time has gone by too quickly.

Could you use lime douche before attempt and rephresh after?

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Originally Posted by crystal-light

Could you use lime douche before attempt and rephresh after?

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IF you were doing a cutoff and 100% sure that you wouldn't O for three days, that would probably be ok (because the RepHresh would raise pH of the lime to 4.5 but then lower the pH of the semen/CM for three days afterwards) I think it's better to never mix lime with RepHresh though - we don't know how high the bump in pH will be, how long it will last, and what if you O early?? If you're sold on lime then do lime with Acijel, Replens, or Sylk.

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Originally Posted by atomic sagebrush

IF you were doing a cutoff and 100% sure that you wouldn't O for three days, that would probably be ok (because the RepHresh would raise pH of the lime to 4.5 but then lower the pH of the semen/CM for three days afterwards) I think it's better to never mix lime with RepHresh though - we don't know how high the bump in pH will be, how long it will last, and what if you O early?? If you're sold on lime then do lime with Acijel, Replens, or Sylk.

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Not particularly sold on the lime b/c we'll probably going for O+12. I want to get acijel and see what it does for my ph. Would it do any good to use anything after dtd if you're doing O+12?

It might be good to use something IMMEDIATELY after but any longer than that and the sperm are already gone on the hunt for the egg. Some sperm do stay behind in the cervical crypts and wait for some reason scientists don't understand, but with an O+12 that is irrelevant because the egg is already on the scene and will be fertilized by the sperm that head up first.

If it makes you feel better, safer, more thorough to keep your pH low for hours on end, it doesn't hurt anything. But I don't think it's necessary.

hey! So just a quick question about replens and rephresh.

Ok, so with a cut off, the 4 hours after O, I think for some it's good to get pH low and keep it low asap. I know for me, a combo of replens and a small amount of lime douche works great. So that's probably what I would do.

Now, since lime douche was used, when is would one be able to use some rephresh? Could it be used the next day after using lime douche the night before? Or is it better to stay away from rephresh all together if you use any lime douche during the cut off attempt?

Thanks!

Do you mean, 4 hours after BD? If it's 4 hours after O, the sperm are already on the way to the egg.

I do think it would be safe to use RepHresh the next day, like 12 hours later. WITH a cutoff, not with O+12, because with O+12 the sperm will be long gone by the next day.

oh good to know. And I mean from the time you dtd until 4 hours. So lets say you dtd at 8 pm...from 8-12 pm would be the crucial time to keep pH low. Then you want to continue keeping pH low, but it's good to know that by around 12 pm the next day (roughly 12 hours after the lime douche) you can start using the rephresh. That might raise pH a bit, but then will keep it between 4 and 4.5 through O which is nice, especially since it's really hard to check pH in the middle of the night. When using rephresh finger, that solves that problem. But of course, only with cut off.

How long is the rephresh supposed to last and buffer pH to 4-4.5? Around 2-3 days? Just wondering roughly, how many applications of rephresh one would have to use from cut off until O. And I guess each time you use the rephresh finger pH has the potential to go as high as 5.0? I wonder, would it make pH even higher than that at first? How long should it take for the pH to get buffered to 4.0-4.5?

It seems like a fantastic solution when used with a cut off, and it has the acetic acid which is awesome.

The only thing is that if the rephresh isn't working, you can't just go and do a lime douche to get pH down, kwim? 'cause that could cause the pH to go up like crazy. So if the rephresh isn't working, you really can't do much to help the situation. That is the only thing that scares me about using the rephresh.

Still awesome research and I think it sounds very promising!! :)

RepHresh is supposed to keep pH down for 3 days. I haven't tested this personally but it's what the website claims.

I feel like if you use a half-applicator of RepHresh the morning after DTD it would work for the entire cutoff. I can't speculate about RepHresh finger vs. applicator because I haven't tested it personally but I hope people give themselves a lot of time to play around with it.

I agree, if the RepHresh doesn't seem to be working, it would prob. be a bad idea to do a lime douche and if pH rises, I would try to use Sylk instead.

oooh, a 1/2 applicator of rephresh is what's needed. I agree, I think the best way to know how it works is with experimentation :). Sounds really promising though!

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Originally Posted by babydust

oooh, a 1/2 applicator of rephresh is what's needed. I agree, I think the best way to know how it works is with experimentation :). Sounds really promising though!

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I don't KNOW that for a fact. This is guesswork based on what seems to make sense to me. I don't think a fingertip does much. A fingertip of Replens at your cervix will certainly make it SEEM like your pH is low but I have to wonder if people are just testing the pH of the Replens, KWIM?? I don't see how a fingertip of anything could affect the pH throughout your vagina for three days during a cutoff, if that makes sense. You need it to get into all the nooks and crannies (EW.)

I bought some Replens and the applicators are pretty tiny (assuming the RepHresh applicators are the same size) so I think a half-applicator makes the most sense. If people try it, the worst that can happen is that they won't get pg that month and can try again and use less (and if anyone does this and it's too much, LET ME KNOW!!!)

yeah, that makes sense, come to think of it a 1/2 applicator probably isn't that much at all. And I know what you mean, after using a finger tip amount of replens and testing pH, probably we are just getting the pH of the replens, haha

I have a boy lube question! I tried the ew for my first 3 attempts, but always had some (well, lots) come out afterwards. I would even put some in and then bear down for a minute to make sure it wasn't sweeping the sperm OUT after dtd, even though I tried the ICs and propped hips, etc. I'm just not sure I was doing it right. One month I feared the ph was above 10 as I only had phion strips and it was in some weird high ph "gray area." But, I do have preseed.....do you all think the ew is a much better sway or do you think preseed is good enough? I just hate the whole ew ordeal and would rather just use preseed, even if I taint it with a little baking soda first...much easier than the ew. I'll crack some eggs if it is really much better, though!

OK, sounds like I was jumping and dumping there...what I meant was that I would insert, have a big O (solo, in the bathroom, hehe) and then bear down BEFORE dtd so there wasn't a giant sloppy mess of ew everywhere, which happened on my newbie sway attempt.

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Originally Posted by LolaInLove

I have a boy lube question! I tried the ew for my first 3 attempts, but always had some (well, lots) come out afterwards. I would even put some in and then bear down for a minute to make sure it wasn't sweeping the sperm OUT after dtd, even though I tried the ICs and propped hips, etc. I'm just not sure I was doing it right. One month I feared the ph was above 10 as I only had phion strips and it was in some weird high ph "gray area." But, I do have preseed.....do you all think the ew is a much better sway or do you think preseed is good enough? I just hate the whole ew ordeal and would rather just use preseed, even if I taint it with a little baking soda first...much easier than the ew. I'll crack some eggs if it is really much better, though!

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I ~personally~ think Pre-Seed is MUCH better especially since the EW is an ordeal for you! It is made to be sperm friendly and I'm not 100% convinced that sky high pH is any better for sperm than superlow pH is. I hope Viene chimes in here.

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Originally Posted by LolaInLove

OK, sounds like I was jumping and dumping there...what I meant was that I would insert, have a big O (solo, in the bathroom, hehe) and then bear down BEFORE dtd so there wasn't a giant sloppy mess of ew everywhere, which happened on my newbie sway attempt.

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No, I followed you. You got rid of as much EW as you could BEFORE DTD.:agree:
I think that's a good idea because I would think too much EW could confuse the sperm! They want to go into the EWCM and not the wrong way!

Thanks, AS! I am relieved to hear that. I also wonder if the super high ph is not good for sperm.....we had a few well-timed months in there that I swore would do the trick, and I couldn't help but think the ew was killing them. Pre-seed it is! By the way, I recently found it at CVS....I think it will be more widely available in drugstores soon.

You know what I keep coming back to (for blue) is, our bodies make EWCM and semen a certain pH for a reason - because it WANTS sperm to survive. So it's kinda a little illogical to me that superhigh pH sways blue. It would seem to me that optimal pH, which is 7-8.5 (according to the WHO) would sway blue. From what I have read, hardly any guys even have pH higher than that and the few that do have something really wrong with them.

That makes total sense. The month we conceived was with no preseed or ew....which does make me wonder if the ew was just not the right ph for our chemistry. I tend to think the body, and nature, has this all mapped out much more than we give it credit for sometimes. I like your suggestions as they seem to be more in sync with the body's natural state, if you know what I mean.

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Originally Posted by LolaInLove

That makes total sense. The month we conceived was with no preseed or ew....which does make me wonder if the ew was just not the right ph for our chemistry. I tend to think the body, and nature, has this all mapped out much more than we give it credit for sometimes. I like your suggestions as they seem to be more in sync with the body's natural state, if you know what I mean.

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Thank you Lola, that is exactly my thinking. There is no way that I don't have a daughter "because I didn't drink enough Crystal-Light" and unless we learn to understand the actual mechanisms at play, then swaying will only ever be like treating the symptoms rather than the disease (not that having a lot of one gender is a disease in any way, but I think everyone knows what I mean!!).

Well put! Thanks again for all the advice!

I'm trying to conceive a girl and have very low pH (sometimes below 4). The closer I come toward ovulation it does actually rise to approx. 4.2 (sorry TMI). I do however, need some kind of lube. Sylk has not worked for me in the past (maybe due to low pH), thus I have been using canola oil. Reading this post, I guess that was not the best choice. What could I use?

In what way did Sylk not work?? Did it raise your pH? If so, you may want to try it a few times and see if your body gets used to it.

Canola oil is ok if you like it and want to use it. But ANY lube other than Pre-Seed will kill sperm and will sway pink. Just test in advance to make sure it doesn't raise your pH super high.

No, Sylk did not raise my pH it remained low - too low to conceive sometimes below 4. I have been ttc for more than 2 years (FSH 12) and feel I'm running out of time at 38 years old. I really would like to sway pink but maybe I need to be realistic and hope that I will conceive at all. I have been using Canola oil the last few months but no luck. Does Canola oil work just as well as Pre-Seed?

No, it doesn't at all. Would you consider Pre-Seed? Your pH is very low to begin with so you may need to put swaying aside and concentrate on getting pregnant.

If you can't get pregnant you have NO chance at your desired gender.

Yes, I am considering Pre-Seed at this point. I've been ttc for so long, my FSH is high and my number one priority is to get pregnant. It would be nice to have a girl but I am not really swaying anymore. I try with a girl friendly diet, ions, supps (Coral calcium, magnesium, prenatal, extra Vitamin B6, Vit E and C) but am no longer doing cut-offs, etc.

I hope it works out for you!

Have you considered adding DHEA? That has helped some people. The downside is that it ~may~ sway blue a bit by raising testosterone.

threads about DHEA that might help:

http://genderdreaming.com/forum/show...highlight=dhea

http://genderdreaming.com/forum/show...highlight=dhea

http://genderdreaming.com/forum/show...highlight=dhea (this one has a comment from Dr. Potter!!)

http://genderdreaming.com/forum/show...highlight=dhea

Rosa, I can tell you what changed with me with 2 cycles of DHEA (I'm 35, been ttc naturally 8 months....the first posted link above has more info about my situation). I started it in January right after a chemical pg, so I have been taking it for 6 weeks now. The first cycle, I had 4 days of +opks opposed to my usual 2 days, so it appeared that I had a much stronger, if not double, ovulation. I ovulated on day 16, which is normal for me....this was the cycle right after the chem pg. This current cycle, which I am 2dpo, I ovulated earlier than I normally do (CD11) and I normally do anywhere from CD14-16. It caught me off guard but we managed to get a bd session in that very night.

I don't think it would hurt to try 25mg, which is what I take, once a day and see what happens. I have noticed a bit of acne, but nothing to have me running for the hills. I do think my testosterone jumped way up, which was good for me since I'm swaying blue, but I am worried about my fertility at this point so I would have tried it even if going for a girl. I guess you could try other testosterone-lowering measures to counter the DHEA's effect. Atomic might have more input on that. Good luck!

Thank you for your support atomic and LolaInLove!

What about the lube Conceive Plus? I'm assuming it sways blue as it helps you conceive however it says it has Calcium and Magnesium ions.... Is there anything about that that would sway girl?

My concern about Conceive Plus is this - first of all it is sperm friendly so it will ~probably~ sway blue by helping maximize sperm survival and second, we don't know if cal-mag is really what sways. ALL CM has cal-mag ions in it. So until it is proven to me beyond a shadow of a doubt that cal-mag concentration in CM is what sways and that Conceive Plus has a girl-friendly concentration of cal-mag ions, I think it's best to probably assume it may sway blue somewhat.

If you're in the position where you just aren't getting pg, then given a choice between Conceive Plus and Pre-Seed, maybe you might want to go for the Conceive Plus, but then again, Pre-Seed is well-known, has worked for so many people and I know for a fact that both boys and girls have been conceived on it.