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If using a cbfm to conceive, will I miss o if I wait until after the high reading? I only have used it 1 cycle and got pregnant with my son on it. It went from low to high, high again, then I believe low... just thinking abought abstaining and o+12. Thanks!
O+12 is extremely difficult to conceive on (if not impossible, really) and almost impossible to time properly. You have no way of knowing the EXACT moment you ovulate without an ultrasound machine in your bedroom! And, timing barely sways if at all so if you're doing a GD style sway don't even worry about the timing.
The CBFM, like other OPK methods, detect the LH surge. The peak of the LH surge triggers ovulation but LH peaks anywhere from 12-36 hours before the egg. You just have no way of knowing when your egg will pop. The CBFM also reads surging estrogen. The estrogen surge is what shows High on your monitor, and estrogen surges should trigger the LH surge. The LH surge shows Peak on your monitor. However, you can have many days of High before showing Peak.
Have you seen this graph? It should be in the booklet that came with your monitor. It illustrates perfectly how the hormones relate to each other.
http://www.clearblueeasy.com/healthcare/img/graph-2.gif
It's possible to get many, many, many days of high and no peak, or many days of high and then peak, so if you're wanting to only do one attempt you need to wait until you see Peak (with the egg symbol) before bd'ing. Your monitor will go from Low, to High. High can last for many days. Then it should go to Peak when you get your LH surge. You'll see two days of Peak and then one day of High after that, then Lows. So if you only want to bd once you need to BD on the FIRST peak day. NOT the second because if the monitor catches your LH surge late, if you don't bd until the second peak day you could miss the egg entirely.
You can feel free to look at my FF charts (link in my siggy), you can see from my older charts how sometimes you have Highs forever before getting a Peak.
Wish I could answer this green eyes.. I have the cbfm too and have not yet used it waiting for my cycle day 1.. And I'm quite nervous how I should start using it did it pick up you LH surge the first cycle you used it? as some people have said it needs to take a little time to recognize your LH surge your Clycle etc..
Wow lace princess you couldn't have said it any better!
Just made a whole bunch of things clear.. I'm TTC a boy and I haven't used the monitor yet just need to wait for my cycle day 1 then can get familiar with .. I believe the same would apply for those TTC a boy, BD on the day you get PEAK day ..even if we had many many HIGH days should we still wait for the PEAK day to come and then DTD
Afy, I got my peak reading with the first cycle using it. I was expecting the high readings to keep going, but I had an early ovulation on cd 11 and the monitor caught it. I was shocked!
Laceprincess, yeah, I've heard of the high readings going on several days and how it doesn't work well with pcos or estrogen dominance. The one time I used it that didn't happen, but I do have ED issues. I forgot that I read I should temp and do okps 2xs a day to catch the surge. The second temp wouldn't be as accurate but would give a better idea/comparrison as to when I might have Oed.
If I didn't/don't do the o+12, do I still just do the one shot attempt? I don't want to risk frequent release...
Afy, for boy frequency you'd ideally want to bd every other day from the first High day until your monitor reads Low again. You wouldn't want to wait for a one-shot attempt for boy, as abstinence reduces sperm count and the health of the sample. Every other day is ideal as it ensures lots of healthy sperm up there for the egg, and DH has plenty of time to recharge in between attempts.
Do you have PCOS? The monitor might possibly not work well if you do. Ladies with PCOS not only have estrogen dominance (and thus the monitor will think you're always High) but also can have high levels of LH all the time and the monitor again might read a Peak falsely.Quote:
Originally Posted by greeneyes
What I do since the sticks are so $$$$ is I will do 10 sticks and then quit using the monitor for that cycle if I still don't have a Peak. The monitor will ask for up to 20 sticks per cycle, and that's a lot of $$ to blow in a single cycle! I monitor in other ways like temp, CM/CP, and OPK's so the monitor is just another way of reading my cycle. The CBFM wants FMU too, which doesn't make much sense because the LH surge is highest in your urine between 10am-8pm. So really, multiple OPK's if you have the cheapie ones are a better way of finding the surge but you'd have to know your signs well enough to know when to test (ie. increased CM, that sort of thing). In fact if you look at my current chart, you'll notice that I got a positive OPK the day BEFORE I got a peak on my CBFM, so the CBFM actually missed the beginning of my LH surge. The CBFM only asks for sticks until it gets one Peak reading, then it'll automatically show a second Peak day, a High day, and then Low, it's programmed that way. So if it catches the tail end of the surge then you really don't have a shot after the first Peak day. Hope that makes sense!!
You don't have to do just one attempt. You can do multiple attempts, in fact a lot of us are BD'ing right through Ov. Why don't you want to do FR? FR for girl sway is having DH release 7-10 days in a row before your fertile window, then BD right through ov. Having DH release so many days in a row reduces his sperm count quite a bit and that's what sways pink but also means you aren't putting all your eggs in one basket. Are you a Dream Member? Atomic has written some great essays on frequency strategy but I believe they're in the Dream Member section.
I'm not a dream member. We did fr with our two boys. I want to avoid that. I had 3 girl with my ex and I don't think he released, at least not like dh does! LOL (I know, tmi). Plus I remember seeing the post that 90% of couples swaying pink end up with girls and they're the ones doing FR. Anyway, just want to do it different when we try. This is THE last baby (ds2 was going to be, but I really want to give dh a girl of his own.
I chart cm and temps, but mostly just cm for now as I'm bfing and haven't gotten my 1st PP af. I usually chart temps, sometimes I'll do saliva ferning, the fertility monitor, sometimes I'll do cervical pos (but that's really inaccurate for me. Its usually opposite from what its "supposed" to be.)
I don't have pcos, but I do have estrogen dominance. ED sways blue, right? I need to get my estrogen down buti'm not sure how without risking screwing up O. (Like using natural progesterone cream before O...) any other suggestions there?
As Atomic has said, just because you did one thing to get boys doesn't mean doing the opposite thing will get you a girl. ;) Frequency is not a big sway factor, nor is timing. You obviously *can* conceive girls though (lucky you!) so you might want to think back to your eating habits and diet and if that's different. Also, your weight. Have you lost or gained weight since you had girl babies? Have you lost or gained bodyfat? Higher bodyfat sways blue, because higher bodyfat = higher fertility. Mother nature likes that and reads it as 'good times' and makes boys, or so goes the theory anyways.
You didn't mention how old your DH is, but if you're planning to do a one-shot attempt just watch that DH doesn't abstain too long. Abstaining 7-10 days is a girl strategy too, but not a good one if DH is over 35 or smokes or drinks or has any chemical/radiation exposure, because abstination damages the sperm. And if he's older anyways then there could possibly be a risk of birth defects with abstaining. This is why you'll see more ladies do a FR strategy.
Oh, and I see you're bf'ing still, so that does sway pink. However you might have to be patient since you're likely not ovulating yet and it can take awhile for your cycle to normalize, even after your first PPAF.
Also, be careful with the LE diet, you don't want to risk your supply! So please make sure you eat enough to keep your supply sufficient for your l'il guy. :)
Nope the frequency stuff is here in the reg. section, the only stuff that's just for DM is the diet stuff.
http://genderdreaming.com/forum/gend...pink-blue.html
http://genderdreaming.com/forum/gend...frequency.html
Number of attempts is here: http://genderdreaming.com/forum/gend...pink-blue.html
Well, I think you need to reread that thread (the version that's on this site) because 90% of couples swaying pink doing FR DO NOT end up with baby BOYS (sorry that was a typo the first time thru!!). If you don't want to do FR, that's absolutely fine and your call to make, I just want you to have the accurate info and you're misinterpreting something that was misinterpreted by the person who posted it to begin with.Quote:
Originally Posted by greeneyes
In order to get past the estrogen dominance, you may have to risk messing up O to some extent. You need to lower E and that can delay O. Don't use a prog cream before O, you'll really risk messing your cycle up doing that. you're supposed to have low prog. before O.
Thanks for linking those great essays again, Atomic. I'd forgotten just how much info there was in those!Quote:
Originally Posted by atomic sagebrush
I am confused (and I'm sure I can't be the only one) by the statement here though......I'm sure you don't mean 90% swaying pink with FR end up with boys, right? Do you mean, rather, that doing FR doesn't guarantee girl 90% of the time? (As in, frequency isn't a huge sway factor.)
confused too....we did FR and like 3 attempts- now preg with dd...Quote:
Originally Posted by LacePrincess
Quote:
Originally Posted by LacePrincess
so roughly how many times would we BD around 4? and what about when i get a PEAK reading in the morning would it be a good idea to do it that evening, the next morning after that too??
Lace princess i read your bit about CBFM im so confused now you said that it had missed the First day of your LH surge and showed you PEAK day the day after.. incase that does happen when would be the best time to BD?
I havent yet opened the CBFM i wasnt sure if the CB Opks are better to use?
Well for general ideal conception chances you want to BD as many attempts as you can in the ideal fertile window. That is, O-2 (two days before ov), O-1, O, and O+1.Quote:
Originally Posted by afy
The CBFM missed the beginning of my LH surge because the CBFM asks for FMU (first morning urine). FMU is not ideal to pick up LH with because LH surges in your urine between 10am-8pm. But, I knew I surged because I picked up the beginning of the LH surge with my OPK, so my monitor picked it up the NEXT morning. Thus, the CBFM only found my LH surge at the tail end of the surge. Remember, the CBFM is programmed to stop asking for sticks as soon as it detects your LH surge, and automatically shows you two peak days followed by one high day.
My point was to always BD on the first peak day and never assume that you are still fertile by the second peak day on the CBFM, because the second peak day might not always be accurate. And you'd never know it until your BBT confirmed ovulation, at which point it would be too late to BD again for that cycle.
In a nutshell, for best chance you want to BD on every peak day and one more to be safe. And keep the CBFM, the sticks are MUCH cheaper than the digital CB OPK's. But you might want to order some IC (internet cheapie) OPK's too as another way of confirming ov.
Thank you so much lace Princess your a star.. Really made things clear I understand what you mean
I definitely will invest in some IC opks so I can use them prior to when I think I will ovulate just incase the cbfm doesn't ask for my Urine sample as you said it automatically stops asking for anymore sticks once it receives a peak.. So that' really means we can't tell when the LH surge has begun or coming to an end..
Which Cheap opks would you recommend I don't want them to be too cheap either and not be reliable lol
Ps do the opks tell you day before your ovulating? I know the CBFM shows high fertility day but sometimes your not sure when it shows PEAK days.. I'm abit wary of attempting to BD on the day which I think might be O-1 before I ovulate when it isn't lol
You're very welcome! I was posting really late last night and wasn't sure if I was being really confusing, LOL.
I get my IC sticks here: Early Pregnancy Tests and Ovulation Predictor Kits for Home Use
I paid $35 last month for a pack of 50 OPK's and 15 HPT's. Free shipping in US/Canada. The tests have been fine, I've never had any false results. You do need to pee in a cup and dip to use the cheapie sticks. As far as I know, all IC's are pretty much the same in terms of reliability.
OPK's read the LH surge. All they can tell you is that your LH has gotten high enough to cross the 'positive' threshold of the OPK, that's all. It can't tell you for sure when, or even if, you will Ov. There is such a thing as a false LH surge. Usually, though, your egg will pop anywhere from 12-36 hours after the FIRST +OPK. This is important, as, you can have many days of +OPK, but it does *not* mean you haven't ov'ed, and also doesn't mean you are still fertile. Some people have longer lasting LH surges is all, but the time to ov is measured from the beginning of the LH surge.
It's just not that exact a science. Without an ultrasound machine, you can't measure exactly when the egg drops at home. So the best you can do is bd often as soon as you see a +OPK, and bd until you see a BBT thermal shift and know that you've ov'ed. There's no way of knowing whether you o'ed 12 hours from your first +OPK, or 36, or 48, etc. And to add to that, it can change from month to month in the same woman. So you see how it just isn't possible to time things with any sort of precision, which is why O+12 doesn't work.
Some ladies are lucky and can feel ov, so they know! I've never ever had Ov pains. I can usually tell if I've ov'ed by the day after O because of CM dry up and CP closing up though.
Thanks.. So if we were to have longer lasting LH surge should we still do as many BD attempts as we can once we read the +opk? I see what you mean that's why I think I'm going to find this the hardest but maybe it might not be unless I have a pretty regular cycle and ovulation .. Just hope I don't do anything to minimize my chances of sway for a boy..
I have a question lady's; i reed that my chances to a boy higher are if we have sex 1day or on the day of ovulation and for a girl a copple of days early than ovuletion, so if this correct and you do a ovulationtest than is the chance for a boy larger, is that possible??
S&D, shettles timing has been proven wrong and discredited. It seems women are doing better with diet and lifestyle vs timing.
Oké thank you!... What do you meen with lifestyle?
Like exercise, stress, hormone levels, etc.
Yes, that was a TYPO, I'm so sorry. Several children were rioting while I wrote that.Quote:
Originally Posted by LacePrincess
Someone had posted a thread claiming that 90% of all failed sways were FR and so people now think that FR makes boys 90% of the time and all kinds of stuff. It's NOT true.
No, unfortunately not.Quote:
Originally Posted by S&D
http://genderdreaming.com/forum/gend...le-timing.html
OPk can sometimes have a fade in the day or two before ovulation, but are less reliable than CBFM in my opinion
In terms of how many times to BD - more attempts in fertile window = better odds of conception, but fewer attempts may be "pinker"...the problem is that when we sway pink, we do so much to kill off sperm that the majority of the people have to do several attempts just to get pg at all.
It is like the Price is Right - you want to do as much as you can to reduce sperm numbers for your sway, without going "over" and killing off all the sperm.
afy, for blue swayers I want you to have 3-5 attempts after that pos OPK (or just before, if you get a good fade in) in addition to an otherwise good blue sway.Quote:
Originally Posted by afy
For pink swayers, you can start off with just one attempt at pos OPK if you want to see if you can get pg that way WITH an otherwise good pink sway. Most people will not be able to get pg with a good sway and only one attempt, so you can either add attempts, drop sway tactics (EXCEPT diet), or BOTH drop sway tactics and add attempts.
Quote:
Originally Posted by afy
AS with the CBFM it doesn't show fade in but it shows high fertility day is this the best time to try an BD if we are wanting to do it a day before ovulationQuote:
Originally Posted by atomic sagebrush
Not quite. The CBFM shows you high fertility days (indicated elevated estrogen) and two Peak fertility days (indicating LH surge). Your best chances are to BD on the Peak fertility days. The BEST day, if you are doing a single attempt, is to BD on the FIRST Peak day. Not the second.Quote:
Originally Posted by afy
Thank you laceprincess I'm actually going to try to do 3-5attempts soon as I get my peak days hopefully! But how did you find out when the peak days are over? Does the monitor tell you
If you want to have 3-5 attemps with best chance at conception I suggest you BD every other day starting when you see High, and then BD on both Peak days and BD again on the High day that follows.
The CBFM stops asking for sticks at the first Peak day. It will always show you a second Peak day followed by a High day. After that it will revert to Low status until you reset it for your next period. It's programmed that way, so it will always do the same thing. As explained by my previous posts on this thread, you may or may not still be fertile by the second Peak day.
So let's say your monitor shows you the following over the course of the week leading up to O, you would BD on the days I bolded:
L L L L L H H H H H P P H L L L
Ladies, we have got a CBFM thread here if you fancy joining us there. ;)
http://genderdreaming.com/forum/gend...sers-join.html