This article will now be available only on my Substack.
https://atomicsagebrush.substack.com/
This article will now be available only on my Substack.
https://atomicsagebrush.substack.com/
YAY, Atomic! Big thanks!
Thank you so much for putting this information together!!
Great info! This should be a sticky!
thank you!
Thanks, this takes some of the pressure off. I wasn't planning on doing TBM, but sometimes I read things and worry that I may regret not doing absolutely everything possible. This makes me feel a bit better about putting a limit on how far I'm willing to go.
Great read!
thanks !!!
atomic I have some questions
I don't get this. Can you tell me how we manipulate semen pH with TBM? When you do TBM you add some EW on top of the semen and that's it . That is not manipulating semen pH to me.Quote:
The second group is people who want to manipulate the pH of semen for gender swaying purposes.
Just want to say you don't use diva cup for ttc boy with TBM! Only the IC. Diva cup is for ttc pink.Quote:
For swaying blue you will also need pH strips/digi tester, egg whites from a real chicken egg, NOT Egg Beaters, a Diva or Instead Cup, and also Pre-Seed.
Why do you say TBM reduces the sperm count? You use the whole sample , all the sperm just put some EW on top and put the IC in right away. So it's not like with MSU where you separate the sample.Quote:
For blue swayers, TBM reduces the number of sperm on hand to make it to the egg. ANY manipulation of sperm is going to end up killing some of them off. Lower sperm count seems to sway pink for the most part, so TBM may be less effective than simply DTD naturally.
When you just DTD and put some EW in before it's kinda the same fore me.
I just want to say the idea for not to lay down because the semen spill out it's silly. You use a IC and it's made for AF so it don't spill out nothing, right? You can also use it after DTD to keep semen in .And you also use it after MSU and you can lay down with that so why not with TBM?Quote:
Once you have the sample, put it into an Instead/Diva Cup. Add about as much egg white as you have semen, into the cup. If the egg white floats on top of the semen, that's great and insert the cup. If the two start to mix together, it's best to finish the job and mix them together right away, then insert the cup. Leave the cup in for 90 minutes and DON'T lay down during this time, the semen will spill out.
Now I now that IG guru idea was that you don't lay down with TBM so you don't mix the semen and EW in the cup!
BUT 1-if the sample already mix then no use for this , 2-I used the IC a lot before and I think there is no way it won't mix when you put that thing in! You have to squeeze it a small place and everything inside the cup will be squeezed too!
(it's not like you put it in a big bowl and it stays the same shape , right?)
So I would say if you totally sure your sample and the EW is not mixed and you will NOT mix it when you insert the IC then don't lay down. But otherwise you can lay down for sure!
Anyway I just have this Q because I have to try next cycle and Im not sure if we do TBM and/or just DDT.
Ok just let me say that I didn't ever do TBM for a boy or a girl. All the info that I used to write that essay was taken from several threads on several sites and compiled into one essay. So if I said something that didn't make sense, I'm sorry but that was what I read was the thing to do.
1)Whenever you add egg white to semen, you are manipulating the pH because the pH of egg white is a lot higher than the pH of semen or CM. You're raising the pH of the sample overall. Whether the egg white is on top or bottom or mixed in there, the pH is different than what it would be otherwise. All I mean by "manipulating" is just, "doing something to change the pH of what you're putting in there."
I also totally agree with you that there is no way that all the squeezing of the cup does not mix the egg whites into the sample at least a little bit.
2)The info I had says either Diva cup or Instead cup for TTC blue. If you are telling me the Instead cup is better then I will change it but I am curious as to what the official difference is. The only thing I have seen is that the Instead cup sits a little bit nearer to the cervix but that it did not seem to matter for swaying blue because you shoudl have so much EWCM from supps anyway that it shouldn't be an issue if the sperm have to go a tiny bit farther or not. What am I missing there???
3)I say TBM reduces sperm numbers because it WILL reduce sperm numbers. You're doing stuff to the sperm outside of the body and you're going to lose some along the way. Unless your DH is able to ejaculate right into that little cup??? Maybe some guys do, I don't know, but I do know that the official instructions tell DH to ejaculate into a cup or sperm safe condom and at least SOME of the sperm are going to get left behind. Plus I still think that just the act of putting it into the IC, putting the EW on top, and inserting the cup, is going to kill or lose sperm along the way.
4)Again, for the laying down part, that was what I read. Sorry if that's silly, I didn't do TBM so I was just going off of what I read which was not to lie down for 90 minutes because the sperm would spill out. Sorry for TMI but I did use Instead cups when I had AF a couple times because I wanted to know more about them and I found they DID spill when I laid down so that made some sense to me. Maybe I didn't have them in right.
5)Sort of a combo of 3 and 4 above but don't you find you spill a lot of sperm/EW or at least SOME when you insert the cup??? That alone seems to me that it will reduce sperm numbers, esp. since after you insert it, you're going to have the cup in the way blocking all the sperm that spilled out!! Might as well be wearing a diaphragm. And that is fine if pH really does sway in the ways that the traditional sway believes, but if numbers sway, then everything you lose might make the difference between XY and XX.
Anyway thanks for asking, every question makes things clearer for everyone.
Ok I see why you say that about the EW. But we also use EW when we just DTD so I don't see why is that a problem.Or is that manipulating too? But I read in 1 of your post that EWCM is the best to use if we need any.
And I only learned form IG (not the best place I guess huh) that diva cup if for ttc pink. Because it's deeper and yeah IC is closer to the cervix.
Maybe we should have lot's of EWCM from the sups but not all of us do. Like I don't have much this last months and no clue why...so I have to use some EWCM for sure.
If you push the IC all the way down it's not so small at all so yeah man can do it right in the cup.
I did not say your post is silly. i just think it is who ever came up with that idea...
But I did use the IC a lot when I was doing msu and it never spilled out . (because you can lay down with msu)but no clue with AF because I never tried.
Yeah you have to be very careful when you insert it so you don't spill.Not so easy...
Anyway I just don't see a big sperm loss with TBM. I think it's a way lot better then msu to keep sperm count for sure.
Also I don't know if pH sway or not I just see that lot's of woman who got boy says they have higher pH . So I want higher pH too. But I don't mind anymore if it's not 8 for sure.
thanks for help!
It is totally manipulating the pH to use EW, Preseed, douching, whatever. Manipulating kind of sounds negative but all I meant was that you're changing the pH of the stuff before you insert it. My thinking is, when you put the EW in and you're DTD the old fashioned way, it will spread throughout the VJ and not be so concentrated, plus the low pH of the vaginal secretions kind of help to keep the pH of the EW reasonable. I'm not convinced that if pH of 10 kills sperm (which I have read repeatedly on IG), that pH of 9.9, 9.8, 9.7, even down to 9, is going to be very good for sperm at all either. That does not make sense to me and does not seem to mesh with how the body works - I would expect to see less survivability as the pH neared 10, not some magic point before which Y sperm are thriving and right after that they all die. So when you put the sperm into an IC and then add EW on top, it's like the sperm can't escape so they get a big blast of pH that may be higher than what is optimal for their survival.
That having been said, semen is pretty good at protecting them and neither EW or semen mix very easily, so I tend to think that when people do TBM for blue, the EW stays separate from the semen and so I think that TBM with EW is safer for sperm than TBM with lime is. Not to go into too much detail but I tested this on a sample my DH gave me and the two did not seem to mix, and that is similar to the advice given on IG, to put the EW on top. Whereas TBM for a girl with the lime, they really do mix the two together and so for sure they kill off a good number of sperm (but of course that's what they want.) I guess my point is, TBM is not accomplishing anything different than regular BD with EW, EWCM, or Preseed does, (buffering sperm from vaginal secretions with EW) would and I really do think that at least some sperm are lost in the process.
Anyway, I edited my essay to put in the info that the Instead cup is prob. better for blue and I thank you very much for calling my attention to that.
I do agree that increasing your pH can help sway blue and it's a good goal for blue swayers, but, just because it can help sway blue does not necessarily mean that Y sperm love sky high pH (I'm going to describe this again for anyone who has not seen it before so it is in this thread too...flava I know you know my opinion on this already and I'm sorry for hijacking your question). Anyway, X and Y sperm preferring drastically different pH levels is only an unproved theory. All sperm prefer and thrive in pH in the 7's and die in BOTH high and low pH, so I find it hard to wrap my mind around the idea that sperm of either gender could "love" pH that is very far out from the pH that ensures their survival.
Another theoretical interpretation that explains pH swaying would be, that since everything that raises sperm count/sperm numbers seems to sway blue, and everything that lowers it seems to sway pink, it may be numbers of sperm all together that sway for a particular gender. More sperm at the egg = more boys, less sperm = more girls (and this could be due to the slight size difference between X and Y sperm and no other reason). So in that scenario, the way pH would sway is that high pH of EW, EWCM, semen, and Preseed helps protect maximum numbers of sperm from the harshness of the vaginal secretions (which are very low, in the 4's) and makes it so more sperm stay alive to make it into the shelter of the cervix and onto fertilize the egg. If this idea is true, then anything you do to reduce sperm numbers would hurt your sway.
For pink swayers, the opposite would be true and they want to minimize sperm numbers while still leaving enough to make it through the CM and to fertilize the egg (it takes more than one sperm to fertilize an egg.) So when they lower the pH, they are killing off more sperm than they would be otherwise and leaving fewer to go onto the egg.
It is totally manipulating the pH to use EW, Preseed, douching, whatever. Manipulating kind of sounds negative but all I meant was that you're changing the pH of the stuff before you insert it. My thinking is, when you put the EW in and you're DTD the old fashioned way, it will spread throughout the VJ and not be so concentrated, plus the low pH of the vaginal secretions kind of help to keep the pH of the EW reasonable. I'm not convinced that if pH of 10 kills sperm (which I have read repeatedly on IG), that pH of 9.9, 9.8, 9.7, even down to 9, is going to be very good for sperm at all either. That does not make sense to me and does not seem to mesh with how the body works - I would expect to see less survivability as the pH neared 10, not some magic point before which Y sperm are thriving and right after that they all die. So when you put the sperm into an IC and then add EW on top, it's like the sperm can't escape so they get a big blast of pH that may be higher than what is optimal for their survival.
That having been said, semen is pretty good at protecting them and neither EW or semen mix very easily, so I tend to think that when people do TBM for blue, the EW stays separate from the semen and so I think that TBM with EW is safer for sperm than TBM with lime is. Not to go into too much detail but I tested this on a sample my DH gave me and the two did not seem to mix, and that is similar to the advice given on IG, to put the EW on top. Whereas TBM for a girl with the lime, they really do mix the two together and so for sure they kill off a good number of sperm (but of course that's what they want.) I guess my point is, TBM is not accomplishing anything different than regular BD with EW, EWCM, or Preseed does, (buffering sperm from vaginal secretions with EW) would and I really do think that at least some sperm are lost in the process.
Anyway, I edited my essay to put in the info that the Instead cup is prob. better for blue and I thank you very much for calling my attention to that.
I do agree that increasing your pH can help sway blue and it's a good goal for blue swayers, but, just because it can help sway blue does not necessarily mean that Y sperm love sky high pH (I'm going to describe this again for anyone who has not seen it before so it is in this thread too...flava I know you know my opinion on this already and I'm sorry for hijacking your question). Anyway, X and Y sperm preferring drastically different pH levels is only an unproved theory. All sperm prefer and thrive in pH in the 7's and die in BOTH high and low pH, so I find it hard to wrap my mind around the idea that sperm of either gender could "love" pH that is very far out from the pH that ensures their survival.
Another theoretical interpretation that explains pH swaying would be, that since everything that raises sperm count/sperm numbers seems to sway blue, and everything that lowers it seems to sway pink, it may be numbers of sperm all together that sway for a particular gender. More sperm at the egg = more boys, less sperm = more girls (and this could be due to the slight size difference between X and Y sperm and no other reason). So in that scenario, the way pH would sway is that high pH of EW, EWCM, semen, and Preseed helps protect maximum numbers of sperm from the harshness of the vaginal secretions (which are very low, in the 4's) and makes it so more sperm stay alive to make it into the shelter of the cervix and onto fertilize the egg. If this idea is true, then anything you do to reduce sperm numbers would hurt your sway.
For pink swayers, the opposite would be true and they want to minimize sperm numbers while still leaving enough to make it through the CM and to fertilize the egg (it takes more than one sperm to fertilize an egg.) So when they lower the pH, they are killing off more sperm than they would be otherwise and leaving fewer to go onto the egg.
You are so right ! No way I believe this 9.9 is all ok and the bummm on 10 all die.
Also the lime thing sound so scary I would think it will kill them all. I know some did get a girl like that on IG Im just happy I don't sway pink I guess lol.
I don't really believe that x and y sperm prefer different pH . It's just mine was always low(like 4.5) and have 4 girls ....that's why.
But now I have 6.4 and this month was 7 so Im all happy with that!
For me if we do TBM or not Im not sure well see what DH is up for lol. But I want to try more then once so it will be regular BD too that's for sure.
OMG it's next cycle wish me luck please Im so scared!http://i399.photobucket.com/albums/p...tos/Scared.gif
And ty for help!
Good luck and I am sending regular doses of blue dust your way!!!
7...awesome! That is where I was before the diet change and that was on the same diet I ate with my boys ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Flava
I just commented to someone this morn that was struggling with FR so I recommended this method that ironically my BFF's sister did. My BFF had sex with her hubby and then he pulled out and ejaculated into a clean cup, then they sucked it up with a syringe and inserted it into BFF's sister. LOL it worked the one time if I remember right!
They did it because there was a problem with the sister's hubby's sperm!
I think it's a great idea if FR BD is too much! :rofl:
Can I ask a dumb question....I am gonna try a combo of normal and TBM this month. I have a ladycup that I use for AF (same as a diva cup) and it is small in circumference and I guess slightly deep, but if you lay down it will get the spermies right up there. I have some IC's and they are HUGE....I have no idea how they get anything up close to your cervix? At O time my cervix is that high that I can hardly reach it!! Am I doing something wrong with the IC?
PoP, the prob. I have with the Instead cup for blue is that you lose so much sperm trying to put the d@mn thing in there that you end up with less sperm than if you had just DTD naturally and laid flat afterwards. This seems to happen whether you have DH ejaculate into the cup and then insert it, or try to do it after the fact. I tried it several times both ways just for information, and I found I lost a lot of sperm/semen in either case. Plus, I also have the same prob. around O where my cervix is super high, and a couple times I really felt like I couldn't get it back out.
I think it's your best bet just to lay flat or prop hips slightly after O for 15-30 min, for blue.
I hope some other people will chime in with their experiences with IC!!
I haven't used a cup, but if i just think about it, i would assume you would be blocking access for some of the sperm left on the outer side of the cup?
Yes, totally! Great point.
Thanks so much...I went with dh depositing into the cup and inserting then laying down...didn't spill a drop and it's right up there with my cervix sitting in the liquid.
You are talented! much better than me LOL!!!
Lots of practice...I use a Diva cup for AF every month.
Good luck, PoP! Sending you all my blue dust!!
yes. I have known people to conceive a girl from TBM. I have also known of many people conceive a boy from TBM. I have also known people who TBM after a successful girl sway for a subsequent child and have a boy.
There are better sway tactics out there. I would be more sold if many many opposites were not conceived or peopel who can't get pg by it, which defeats the whole purpose. VASTLY better methods to reduce numbers of sperm getting to the egg. Vastly. Like...to eternity and back, vastly. Not just a little vastly, but incredibly vastly better methods that keeps your sanity and your marriage intact. I don't know about you, but a stack of BFNs due to lime juice and an abraded vagina, isn't exactly how I wish to ttc a child that really has no proven effectiveness to choose gender. I think I just know of too many opposites, but again...you can pretty much say that about anything when it comes to swaying.
look into a store bought douche to do before or after DTD...same purpose, much easier and nicer to your lady parts. Also consider acijel or rephresh to use in conjunction. SAME PURPOSE=SAME OUTCOME+HAPPY CAMPERS (you can rearrange that into any order which shows it is an absolute best scenario)
I do, but I also know people who got an opposite with TBM. And the stats on IG that I saw were 50-50 for the extreme gender swaying for a girl (this was a few months back tho)Quote:
Originally Posted by Lara3
I also know a ton ton ton of people who tried TBM for months and couldn't get pg.
edited below with 2 more stat updates from IG. their numbers range between 50-50 to low 70% and are the same as we are getting with diet, exercise, one attempt, Clomid.
I reiterate I know tons tons tons of people who did not get pregnant with EGS.
I just wanted to share with everyone the IG stats thread here TTC GIRL Stats Sheet in Extreme Gender Swaying ForumQuote:
Originally Posted by bodhi
Please note that we are getting equal or better results WITHOUT TBM. LE Diet longer than 12 weeks, alcohol, one attempt, exercise, Clomid - WITHOUT TBM all got equal or better results (and keep in mind that TBM on IG is done WITH diet and one attempt plus lots of other stuff). TBM and the other extreme swaying methods DO NOT WORK. They add NOTHING beyond what we are already getting with much easier, saner, safer sways. And our time to conception is average 3 months on this site too which is all good.
I will keep these directions up of course because I want people to be able to use these methods SAFELY but I do not recommend them at all.
Atomic,
My partner and I are a same sex couple. We only have the choice of doing the TBM... from what I'm reading on this thread I feel like our chances of falling pregnant are drastically slim compared to if we were to do it the "natural" way.
We are also trying to sway pink, we are doing supps and trying the diet however because I am already slim and have a low bmi it worries me that I wont be getting enough nutrition to maintain a stable healthy weight... can you help me on this?
I'm sure Atomic will reply but just wanted to say I don't think your chances with TBM are horrible at all! I think the negativity is specifically geared towards the ladies on IG who were adding line juice to their husband's sperm, etc. Atomic says on the very first post in this thread that it can be an effective means of conception when done properly. I know a same-sex couple who got pregnant (both of them) this way. The older one (40+ when she started) took a year to get pregnant without any fertility treatments. Her partner, in her early thirties, got pregnant after only a couple cycles.
i got pregnant this time first try with TBM / AI (using a syringe) i also swayed pink so only did 1 attempt and jumped and dumped after about 5 mins.
it lowers your chances if your adding things to the sperm to try and change ph but just using the syringe as a method of getting the sperm up there has the same success rates as normal intercourse so i wouldnt let it stress you out, the IG statistics arent of women who were doing at home AI (or TBM if you prefer to call it that) they are of women who were adding things to the sperm before inseminating to try and alter the ph which is a totally different thing..
i dont know what im having this time so i cant tell you if my sway worked or not but i can tell you i got pregnant first time with only 1 insemination, and atomic did mention on one of my posts that there have previously been 2 women on this site who used at home AI, both swayed blue with diet, exercise etc but due to using sperm donors they had limited insemination attempts.. both got pregnant and both got girls!! :)
Hi and welcome! Glad you found us.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rainbow16
The warnings in this essay are directed at people doing tons of stuff to alter the pH and other characteristics of the sperm. It is a different scenario when you're just trying to do TBM for getting pregnant. I would not have you put lime juice and all the rest of it into the sperm sample you're using and just do the insemination, and then we will sway in other ways.
You can def. do the diet at upper limits of cals to prevent weight loss and that is what I suggest for you. You will still be swaying even if you do not lose any weight. :)
Let me know how else I can help!
:agree: and we have had 2 couples get pregnant this way and both had girls (and were swaying for boys!!)Quote:
Originally Posted by Erin514
Thanks so much for your replies ladies! Very helpful, sorry I must have misread the first post, it was late here in Australia haha.
I'm very glad I have found this site to, we are really hoping for a girl but will be happy with a healthy baby! Trying to give our daughter a sister :)
I'm glad the TBM method doesn't reduce our risks of getting pregnant it had me worried there. Our last pregnancy took 2 years to conceive, I think there was an issue with the donor, hopefully with a new donor things won't take so long!
No I must find the girl diet and see how I can manage to make this work for me. I already skip breakfast but love my pasta..
Atomic could you link the girl diet please?
Here it is!! You would aim at starting off at 1800-2000 cals and see how it goes, if weight comes off then up calories till it stops following basic tenets of the diet. http://genderdreaming.com/forum/tryi...l-version.html
Hi, looking for some updated info on TBM and ladies who have done this method for blue. I think pH doesn't sway so EW are not used anymore.? And Preseed?
I want to use it additional to normal BD. DH and I can't DTD during the day because of the kids but I want to add AM attempts to the night BD. So, that's why I'm learning this. ;)
Can someone tell me if this is right:
version 1: I have DH do it into a moon cup (IC is too big to manage for me), then add preseed (how much?) and insert it. done.
:think: As I think that the liquid could be to low in the cup to have contact with the cervix (or isn't that the case?) when standing up (can't lay down for long - kids..) wouldn't it be better to:
version2: Have DH do it into a clean glass, then suck it up with a syringe (should I add preseed here again to have greater volume?) and inject it somehow directly into the cervix opening...:suprise: if that is even possible? maybe using a soft blunt cannula? like an embryo transfer for sperm :rofl: of course not as far to have an IUI because I know that would be dangerous but only a little inside sorry for TMI. just trying to figure out how sperm transfer would be most effective lol
is anybody here crazy enough to have done something like that or even considering and wanting to share experience and thoughts?
Hey, i have an appointment today and have to leave in a couple minutes so could you please bump this for me???
I just want to be VERY sure that no one uses egg whites though. I think it's very likely that egg whites are causing miscarriages and I have an explanation of my concerns here in this thread https://www.genderdreaming.com/forum...re-get-pg.html
NO EGG WHITES! I have it in these instructions because this is the instructions on how to do TBM but I really, really very much prefer that you guys skip them.
Hi,Quote:
Originally Posted by aira22
For version 2 you can't insert directly into your cervix, you just insert reasonably far into the vagina (as far as the syringe goes, assuming it's a standard 5 or 10 ml syringe that's fine) and release there.
OK, maybe I'll practice with preseed only. (or water? what's the least messing up CM down there)Quote:
Originally Posted by MrsEnglish
Yes, atomic. NO EGG WHITES! Only use preseed. or don't I even need that?
If you want a boy use a sperm friendly lube. Water actually is bad for sperm and will kill some of them off.Quote:
Originally Posted by aira22
I found it to be simple and not need practice, but it couldn't hurt to practice if you feel unsure.
BTW, I was doing it to sway girl -- DH finished into a condom which also kills some sperm -- I was going to add lemon juice, but then chickened out on the lemon juice and just inserted the semen after it sat in a condom for about 10 minutes. I got a girl that way.