would this offend you?

The other night I was having a conversation with a friend where basically I said if it isn't a girl we are planning on doing IVF for a baby girl.. her response? Maybe its not meant to be, maybe your messing with gods fate to have this baby.. I just wanted to break down at that point and I didn't.. but do I have a right to be upset? i'm seeing this "friend" for dinner Tuesday and really dreading it :worry: she also says we are crazy for contemplating four kids and that it isn't affordable even though we are both well established in our medical careers. sorry to vent I didn't know where else to go and dh is tired of me ranting about it :(

Yes, it's offensive but here's the thing, people are going to say crap all the time about everything you do in life. Yesterday I was outside with my kids and this old lady walked by and gave me a lecture about how I shouldn't let my kids play in dirt because they could get worms and a bunch of other similar stuff. But since I didn't ahve any emotional investment in that I was able to just let it roll off my shoulders secure in my knowledge that the most recent studies have shown that dirt is actually good for kids' health (and so may be worms LOL).

I think the reason why the various comments sting so much is because we have so much invested in this, and we have mixed feelings about it ourselves. That's not the commenter's fault (not yours either, it just is what it is) and they don't mean it with any more animus than the old woman walking by worrying about worms. It's just some stupid thought that occurs to them, they have probably never given more than a split second of thought to the matter, and so their opinions are based on a lack of information. It is not that they have carefully analyzed the situation and come to a rational conclusion about the matter, it's just a knee jerk reaction based on a bunch of Hollywood-Oprah bullshit that it's "WRONG" to want to experience a baby of both genders. It's not wrong, it's natural, and all of us feel the exact same way that you do.

And as you well know being in the medical field - people are all well and good with messing with "God's will" when it suits them to - like when their child needs antibiotics or a blood transfusion. It's only when someone else does it that they have a problem. ;)

It probably would have. Because she's your friend and you wanted her to support you. I've come to the realization (at 34) that our expectations of people and what they do/say are rarely in sync. But that's ok. Her opinion is just that. In the end, we have to do what makes us happy.

God and PGD- is choosing gender really going outside of

That would definitely annoy me. However, I am VERY sensitive to people's emotions and feelings that I could never fathom saying something like that to someone - I would probably just say "Oh really, wow I didn't know they could do that... or something like Yah, whatever you need to do to make you feel like your family is complete" EVEN if I didn't agree or believe what I was saying, I think as a human being it's important to support someone and respond in an uplifting way always.. UNLESS they are asking your opinion.. which I didn't see you write that you had asked her what she thought. The other day I was at some playgroup with a bunch of moms including my SIL and she was asking how I was feeling and blah blah, then goes on to say "I would go into a deep dark depression if I were to find out I was pregnant with my 3rd, it's be soo brutal" or something to that affect. Immediately I was insulted and actually got up and left with my kids a few minutes later. I don't need someone making me have negative thoughts about how a 3rd is going to ruin my life or whatever.. I just in general think people are idiots, and should keep their mouths shut unless they have something nice to say. I save all my annoying talk about people and their decisions in life for my hubby LOL! I would never say it to their face.

Do what you need to do girl, and if you have no problem "messing with gods plan" then go for it! It's your decisions, and I'm sure several people will have lots to say about it so I'd probably just pretend I got lucky and my 4th was a girl ;)

MS BLAKELY is RIGHT! Honey, people are morons who take no thought in how their "opinions" are going to make someone feel... As a counselor, I see this on a daily basis obviously, and I help people overcome it too. You know what I say? You can't control how others feel, no matter how hard you try... nor should you want to! All you have control over is how YOU feel... feelings are a choice! Once I truly realized that in my own life it was an incredibly powerful thing for me :)

That was a hurtful thing your "friend" said though... And the sad part is that she probably has NO CLUE how she made you feel :( She was just rambling on and maybe even realized how insensitive she sounded afterwards! Saying I'm sorry is a hard thing to do though....

After my gender scan last night, my own father (who is my world!) actually gave me a hug and said "I'm sorry honey"... I wanted to punch him!!! I'm sorry?!?! How about congrats! He never had any biological sons, so my sons are his closest link to that... shouldn't he be thrilled at having another grandson?? Well, HE IS... he was only saying sorry to me because he knows how badly I wanted a little girl... but I had to stop and think for a second. If it had been anyone else I would have doubted their intentions though, you know? But this is my father, the man who loves me most in the world besides dh... he would never want to hurt me.

So my point is, sometimes people don't think!!!! :hugs: to you :)

Plus, like Atomic said, gender is a hot button issue in today's world... thanks to all the Hollywood/Oprah bullshit (god I love your sense of humor Atomic!!) :)

In most of the world, everyone else is praying for all boys! I had an Indian woman tell me how lucky I was to have 2 handsome boys last night at dinner. My mom said "Yes and she's got another on the way!" And the woman smiled and said "You have good karma to have all sons!" ... I smiled politely through clenched teeth, but afterwards I thought, Well maybe I should take her point of view! haha It's all relative, isn't it? :)

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Originally Posted by Charlee

Plus, like Atomic said, gender is a hot button issue in today's world... thanks to all the Hollywood/Oprah bullshit (god I love your sense of humor Atomic!!) :)

In most of the world, everyone else is praying for all boys! I had an Indian woman tell me how lucky I was to have 2 handsome boys last night at dinner. My mom said "Yes and she's got another on the way!" And the woman smiled and said "You have good karma to have all sons!" ... I smiled politely through clenched teeth, but afterwards I thought, Well maybe I should take her point of view! haha It's all relative, isn't it? :)

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My ultrasound tech for DS2 was an indian man and I was like "Oh, it's a boy..." because it was instant crotch shot and he was like.. "Were you hoping for something else? In my culture everyone is super upset when they come in here and hear girl! Everyone wants boys!" I just thought that was funny but it's very true.. in most other countries boys are very much coveted!!! Aren't we all so lucky ;)

thank you all ladies, i'm still very pissed off and I know I shouldn't be because I shouldn't be getting upset while pregnant.. I may just "cancel" dinner Thursday hehe

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Originally Posted by Charlee

MS BLAKELY is RIGHT! Honey, people are morons who take no thought in how their "opinions" are going to make someone feel... As a counselor, I see this on a daily basis obviously, and I help people overcome it too. You know what I say? You can't control how others feel, no matter how hard you try... nor should you want to! All you have control over is how YOU feel... feelings are a choice! Once I truly realized that in my own life it was an incredibly powerful thing for me :)

That was a hurtful thing your "friend" said though... And the sad part is that she probably has NO CLUE how she made you feel :( She was just rambling on and maybe even realized how insensitive she sounded afterwards! Saying I'm sorry is a hard thing to do though....

After my gender scan last night, my own father (who is my world!) actually gave me a hug and said "I'm sorry honey"... I wanted to punch him!!! I'm sorry?!?! How about congrats! He never had any biological sons, so my sons are his closest link to that... shouldn't he be thrilled at having another grandson?? Well, HE IS... he was only saying sorry to me because he knows how badly I wanted a little girl... but I had to stop and think for a second. If it had been anyone else I would have doubted their intentions though, you know? But this is my father, the man who loves me most in the world besides dh... he would never want to hurt me.

So my point is, sometimes people don't think!!!! :hugs: to you :)

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I don't get it, here is a friend from high school who I know has had it harder in college and has yet to find a stable job in her career, maybe that is why she cannot justify us spending that much, or "messing" with the hands of god.. I'm going to be upset for a little while over this one.. and my dad would have probably said the SAME thing.. that's why he doesn't know yet lol

my personal opinion would be that nothing is out of gods reach, ivf pgd maybe immoral to a few people but that does not mean god is against it (not that i know he is for it either?!?) but at the end of the day although you are expressing a preference gender wise its not a guarantee that you get pregnant with that child (some get none to transfer, some don't cycle, some get bfn's, some miscarry, very occasionally there are opposites - there are plenty of ways for god to intervene if that baby is not 'a part of the plan') anyways and whose to say thats not the child you wouldn't have received if you'd tried naturally either (a lot of girls get their dg after failed ivf) - it may all be mean't to be anyway. At some point we were given the ability to carry this process out, maybe these babies are all part of the plan too in there own way.

Every medical invention could be seen as against gods plan by some, but maybe the knowledge is a gift instead. People are very quick to judge what they do not understand or experience, if this 'friend' cannot support you is she really someone you need in your life?

Charlee i think your dads response was imed at you not your baby, my family was the same with ds3, i think its just cause they were disappointed for me as they knew how much i wanted it and they all loved me - they have all loved and accepted my little man without question or hesitation, he is as special to them as the others are, i think people just don't know how to handle things sometimes.

Hlmcdaniels - I do understand why your friends opinion offended you. But, playing devils advocate here, I doubt she meant to offend you. The fact is, people who have not experienced GD just don't get it, they can't. Before I had children, I just kind of assumed I'd get boys and girls. So maybe your friend just has never really given gender selection much thought and that was just her gut reaction. I mentioned it to an obstetrician colleague once and she just blurted out "but that's awful." She clearly is way behind the times.
I'm just hopeful that in our lifetime, attitudes to gender selection for family balacing will be more open. In the mean time, unless we choose to be super secretive, we will just have to put up with narrow minded views.
I do also think, that as your friend, she should try hard to see things from your point of view, which she didnt and it sounds as though she was being judgemental, which she has no right to do. So I don't blame you at all if you decided to cancel on her!

How many children does she have? Some people generally cannot contemplate anything that is outside of their own box ie well we couldnt afford 4 kids so its not possible, or wanting to guarantee your family balancing, well I had to take what I was given why shouldnt you, a little bit of knee jerk envy on her part perhaps?? I would have the dinner on Thursday just to see if she brings it up, stay cool and calm and have your answers ready;)

Sometimes the most hurtful comments wound us because they touch a nerve. Do you have any HT misgivings or doubts? If/when you've 100% made up your mind I think you'll be less bothered by what other people think or say.

There's a mum at the school my daughters are at who has openly expressed her disapproval at the idea of a big family - she has one daughter. Her various reasons for why she's happy with one and thinks one is "better" don't bother me at all because I always wanted loads of kids.

When my DH's mom found out our first was a girl, her response was "well, at least it's only your first and you have more tries." No congrats or anything. I know they sometimes mean well, but geeze, keep your opinions to yourself people!

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Originally Posted by hlmcdaniels

thank you all ladies, i'm still very pissed off and I know I shouldn't be because I shouldn't be getting upset while pregnant.. I may just "cancel" dinner Thursday hehe

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IMO, I think we need to set firm limits to keep our GD in check. GD can easily consume us when we are bombarded with lame comments, hanging out with people who have our DG, etc.

If it was me, I would cancel dinner or bring more people, or make a list of things to talk about and keep changing the subject when baby stuff comes up, etc.

That is how I cope. I spend minimal time on FB because it always agitates my GD. WHen I do get on there and I find myself GD flaring up, I get off. Just one of my coping methods.

Do what works for you and helps you have a good day/week/month in the long run. Someone's comments, as much as we have the choice to choose our reactions, can still sting for a while.

If it works out for you through ivf isn't that gods plan, didn't god put doctors on earth as part of the "plan" (not that I do or do not believe this myself ) I make decisions about my life not based on anyones plan for me- i pursue what's right for me and my family regardless- my point is- is that your friends point is moot.

I have not told anyone except dh and my mother about ivf. #1 i have not decided how or if i will tell the baby. Until i decide with certainty the baby will know no one else should know. I think you should ask yourself why are you sharing this? R you looking for support? To me I don't need anyone's support other then dh. To me there is nothing gained whatsoever by sharing this information. Just my opinion. :) everyone seems to have something to say about everything (as I am doing right now) lol!

Whenever someone uses the rationale of "gods plan," I want to smack them. No matter what the circumstances. Because HOW do they know that it ALL isn't gods plan, including IVF, PGD, and the twelve technologies we have yet to develop? How do they know that god isn't present in the choice and execution of PGD? Or, why would we have free will if he didnt intend us to make choices and do things he would or wouldn't do?

I think of it like this "If we only rely on gods plan...does that mean if someone breaks their ankle, we just leave it how it is and let them live their life with a broken and badly mended ankle? Because if we set it and cast it and let it heal properly, that is interfering with "gods plan" of a broken ankle." Silly, right? We fix the ankle so that person can live a fulfilling, healthy life...as god wishes us to (for those who believe that way).

And I agree with those who said it really hit hard because of our own insecurities. Most GD moms have that underlying fear of "what if I am not worthy of my desired gender" or "what if I am not meant to have my desired gender." It's just a common insecurity, given we wonder WHY we haven't gotten it yet. Human nature likes to find reasons for everything. Just pure luck of the draw doesn't sit well in our orderly, reason-oriented minds. But, it's true. It's just the way the cards fall, nothing deeper than that.

I doubt the friend meant to cause such a reaction. She probably didn't think about how her words would affect you. And obviously didn't think about how her opinion factored into your plans of PGD (eh, not at all! Lol). If you don't feel like chatting with her over dinner, don't! But try not to isolate, since it can make the whole process worse. But don't interact with those who make you feel badly.

My very best friend in the world doesn't agree with doing gender selection at all. But once we had the conversation and she voiced her opinion and I voiced mine, we then respected each other enough to agree to disagree and we just don't talk about it. She has still been a great support to me during this whole process and wishes me the very best of luck each time I try. She's still there by the phone when I poas and is sad for me each failure. Maybe you need to have the conversation with your friend and just get to a place where you can both say "well I see it differently to you" but not let it end the friendship. I suppose it depends a bit on how close you are and how important she is to you. Maybe she just needs to hear how much it means to you to have a daughter...??
I wouldn't cancel dinner but I would lay my cards on the table with her otherwise this will eat at you.

ladies, she is single.. and probably will be for a while because she's looking for men for all of the wrong reasons which is sad(money) I kind of want to say, what if you had two boys and wanted a girl how would you feel? but I don't think she can relate because of how picky she is with men.. I am no longer asking for any other opinions.. I have my dh and mom on board and that's all that matters!!

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Originally Posted by atomic sagebrush

Yesterday I was outside with my kids and this old lady walked by and gave me a lecture about how I shouldn't let my kids play in dirt because they could get worms and a bunch of other similar stuff. But since I didn't ahve any emotional investment in that I was able to just let it roll off my shoulders secure in my knowledge that the most recent studies have shown that dirt is actually good for kids' health (and so may be worms LOL).

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In my never-humble opinion I think that is the problem with America today. Too many kids don't/won't/can't/aren't allowed to play in the dirt with worms!

Once we knew we were having ds3 my husband put something on fb asking what people thought about family balancing after a few of the one gender. One friend who has twin girls from IVF said we should be happy with what we get after they had to go down the IVF route for their girls. So, he was happy enough to get his dream (child/children) from NHS IVF but our dream of having both genders after 3 natural ds's was not as important as his?! This bothered me because it made us out as being selfish but they were justified in pursuing their dream?! I think people generally think within their comfort zone. I am ashamed to say that I said the most insensitive comment to my sil - she had 3 girls and was pg again. They had always voiced their wish for a boy. Before the gender scan I said 'it'll be a girl' That came from my GD. I sent a text later the same night apologising for being insensitive and that it was because I had always hoped for a girl. They got their ds!! Sometimes even someone like me who should know better says stupid things.

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Originally Posted by Mrs_P

my personal opinion would be that nothing is out of gods reach, ivf pgd maybe immoral to a few people but that does not mean god is against it (not that i know he is for it either?!?) but at the end of the day although you are expressing a preference gender wise its not a guarantee that you get pregnant with that child (some get none to transfer, some don't cycle, some get bfn's, some miscarry, very occasionally there are opposites - there are plenty of ways for god to intervene if that baby is not 'a part of the plan') anyways and whose to say thats not the child you wouldn't have received if you'd tried naturally either (a lot of girls get their dg after failed ivf) - it may all be mean't to be anyway. At some point we were given the ability to carry this process out, maybe these babies are all part of the plan too in there own way.

Every medical invention could be seen as against gods plan by some, but maybe the knowledge is a gift instead. People are very quick to judge what they do not understand or experience, if this 'friend' cannot support you is she really someone you need in your life?

Charlee i think your dads response was imed at you not your baby, my family was the same with ds3, i think its just cause they were disappointed for me as they knew how much i wanted it and they all loved me - they have all loved and accepted my little man without question or hesitation, he is as special to them as the others are, i think people just don't know how to handle things sometimes.

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^^^THIS!! I agree that God gives us knowledge so we can use it! I ultimately believe He is in control, & will give us His best, but sometimes I think He guides and directs our path to accomplish His will.

I for one, believe God directed me to this site...I won't go into why I believe that...it's a whole other story. LOL. But, while I am NOT God and don't absolutely KNOW that this baby I'm carrying is a girl, I feel strongly that she is a she. :) And if I was dreaming up my intuitions and feelings about this due to GD, at the very least, I have discovered a healthier way to live. Let me explain...I have PCOS, and have always had trouble conceiving. However, after I found this site several months ago, it made perfect sense why I have 3 boys...diet and our sex life being the main things that sway blue. I am embarrassed to admit that I have a TERRIBLE sweet tooth, which I know is a detriment to my health. I have tried in the past to reduce sugar, but haven't really been successful. Once I got on here and researched swaying for a girl, it clicked that maybe one of the reasons I have boys is due to my own poor choices. (I absolutely adore my boys, don't get me wrong! And wouldn't trade any of them!) But, after 3 boys, I was desperate to give up whatever I needed to increase my odds for a girl, including my sugar-heavy diet.

It felt so good to improve my health in the process of doing the LE diet (PCOS version)...and I got pg first try, first O postpartum! This is CRAZY for me...getting pg has always been a huge challenge, so I am now very confident that our issues in the past could have been helped if I had changed my diet back then. I plan to keep certain parts of this diet permanent...simply for my health and to be a better example to my kids. If I come away from this "swaying experiment" with another DS, and better health for me and my kids, it's still a win!

So, sorry for the long book, but my point is that God gives us knowledge for a reason...and you need not feel guilty for using it! He will accomplish His plan regardless!