Atomic: Help with lab results (UPDATE 1 month later)

Putting this here in case anyone else has any advice or experience.

So the past few months I've been extremely tired, as in I can sleep 12 hours and still wake up exhausted, I can nap the whole day away, I'm always freezing, and my basal body temp is usually low (low 97 degrees). And then I had a miscarriage last month. And my mom is hypothyroid. And so was her grandma. These are all signs that I may be hypo myself, so I had my doctor run a full thyroid panel on me plus B12 and Folate. My results are:

TSH: 1.0 (normal)
Free T4: 1.2 (normal)
Free T3: 2.8 (normal)
Thyroglobulin antibodies: 3 (HIGH, should be < or = to 1)
Thyroid peroxidase antibodies: 1 (normal)

Seems like I didn't get all the tests though. Where's the reverse T3, etc?

B12: 1109 (HIGH, should be 200-1100. Other sites list 900 as being the max normal.)
Folate: >24 (Seems high to me as normal is >5.4 and I'm at least 4 times higher than that)

My doctor (family dr) didn't seem concerned at all. She said it's the peroxidase antibodies that are associated with Hashimoto's so I don't have a problem. For the high B12 she said it could be from a high meat diet or from taking B12 supplements. But because of the LE diet I've been eating less meat for the past 9 months (1/2 serving a day) and I've never taken B12 vitamins. I did start taking a prenatal when I found out I was pregnant, but stopped after the miscarriage and wasn't before then, only 1600mcg of folic acid a day. Also, everything I read said B12 from food and vitamins is water soluble and therefore any excess would be peed out and not build up in the blood. B12 deficiencies are common, but I've never heard of high B12 levels. Everything I read said high B12 blood levels are a risk factor for some cancers or even a sign of malignancies!

Anyone have any thoughts? Everything I've read says having thyroid antibodies increases the chance of having a miscarriage by a lot so I definitely don't want to just let that go. My mom was never tested for thyroid antibodies, even though I've been asking her to for the past 3 years, so I don't know if she has Hashimoto's or is just hypo.

Also, a quick google search of "high B12 and folate levels" links me to several MTHFR mutation message boards with a few people with similar issues or at least high folate levels. Is it possible that I have this mutation and that's part of the problem? Who would test for this? I called to make an appointment with an endocrinologist who specializes in pregnancy, but haven't heard back yet. Would he or my primary doctor be able to run the MTHFR test? Apparently it can increase the chance of miscarriage as well, which is also concerning.

Since my miscarriage I've been taking 2400mcg of folic acid a day, but I just ran out yesterday. After reading a few things about folate being better, I ordered folate instead (should be here tomorrow). I was taking baby aspirin during my previous 4 cycles that ended in BFN, but had stopped it about 6 weeks before getting my BFP (after Atomic no longer recommended it). But then read that people with MTHFR mutation should be taking it?

I want you to get folate from here on in. If you do have a MTHFR issue the folate will be better. But I am not certain we should have you taking anything until we consult with a doctor

This is out of my league and I def. agree we need to call in an endocrinologist because we need more testing.

I don't want to tell you to take the aspirin till we know for sure. IF you do have some thyroid stuff, aspirin can aggravate it.

Thanks Atomic! My folate arrived yesterday (800mcg) and I started taking 2 a day (separate times).

I was able to get an appointment with an endocrinologist the day before Thanksgiving, so hopefully I'll get some answers soon.

DH says no more kids, so not sure if I should give up swaying and go back to eating paleo and taking all my healthy supplements, or hold out and hope he changes his mind (or skips the condoms)!

OH I'm sorry to read that. I hope he changes his mind.

I can see the wisdom in both approaches - what worked for me was just doing diet and being ready for when DH decided to NTNP - but I think that in terms of your overall health, a more paleo approach may be more healthful for you (and I recommend Perfect Health Diet). If you want a compromise, the atomic fertility diet was based on Perfect Health Diet and is kind of a compromise between swaying and Paleo.

Hey essnce629, I have the MTHFR mutation and Hypothyroidism. Your endocrinologist should be able and willing to test you for the mutation. I had mine tested by a doctor who combines both holistic and traditional medicine in her practice. She was already aware of the mutation and tested me for it without me even being aware of the problems associated with it. I can tell you that if you do have the mutation, you have to take L-5-methyltetrahydrofolate (Thorne Research is a great brand). I get mine from Amazon; here's a link. The mutation can cause miscarriages but you're supposed to be safe if you take the proper type of folate. I also take Aspirin because I had some strange issues last year that the doctors decided were TIAs. However, I am being monitored by my doctor. I see her once every 3 months for blood work to make sure everything is working fine together.

As far as the Thyroid tests go, your numbers actually look awesome. I'm not a medical professional but from my 19 years of experience with this type of tests and results, I don't think you need any supplementation for your Thyroid.

I hope you can get some answers and that your endo is helpful! :)

So update on me after 1 month and several more tests:

I did see an excellent endocrinologist last month who sent me for a slew of lab tests and a thyroid ultrasound. I saw him again last week and will see him again in two weeks.

The good news:
My thyroid is perfectly fine. All my thyroid blood tests were great and my thyroid ultrasound was perfectly normal.

The not so good news:
My ferritin levels are SUPER LOW. Optimal for women should be 70-90 and mine is 8, EIGHT!!!! Ferritin is a protein found inside cells that stores iron so your body can use it later. So I pretty much have no iron stores which is why I'm sooooo tired all the time, depressed, was craving crayons a few months ago, am freezing all the time, have joint/leg/arm pain, brain fog/memory issues, have no sex drive, and get out of breath easily just putting my wet clothes in the dryer! Iron carries oxygen via the red blood cells, which means I'm not getting enough oxygen. Everything I've read said that ferritin levels under 50 cause symptoms. Also, ferritin levels under 50 can cause infertility and low iron causes poor egg quality which would lead to an increase in miscarriage. So I guess it's not surprising that I had a miscarriage 2 months ago. :(
And if you notice, low ferritin symptoms are pretty much exactly the same as low thyroid symptoms, which is why it's often not caught. It's an additional test that is not normally tested with your regular labs. You can have normal hemogloblin and hematocrit levels (which I did) and still have extremely low ferritin levels. Also, ferritin levels under 70 are a common cause of excessive hair loss.

The cause of my low ferritin appears to be my super heavy periods that I've experienced since having DS1 11.5 years ago. And even though I breastfed both kids for 2-3 years each with no formula, my periods came back at 5-6 WEEKS postpartum so I never had a break from the heavy periods like other nursing moms, and pregnancy and breastfeeding taxes your iron stores. Then switching from a paleo diet with lots of red meat to LE diet with pretty much no red meat over the past year made things worse (started craving crayons back in June after 5 months on LE diet). And then the miscarriage pretty much pushed me over the edge in the blood loss and iron department. I had been taking 65mg of iron 3 times a week since July, BUT I was taking it with lunch every day when I had my daily cappuccino and coffee PREVENTS iron absorption so it probably wasn't helping at all. Needless to say, my doctor prescribed me high dose iron (Ferrex) to take daily-- 150mg twice a day on an empty stomach for the most absorption.

On top of my low iron, by blood tests showed that I was deficient in magnesium and low in vitamin D. This is for sure from the LE diet since I stopped both my magnesium and vitamin D supplements (and all other supplements besides folic acid) one year ago. I also stopped eating nuts which are high in magnesium. My vitamin D was 51 back in February and now it's 39, which is still in the normal range, but low, as optimal is over 50. We know that low vitamin D levels probably sway girl, but it may be a contributing factor to me feeling like crap!

And then, I got my genetic testing back and as I suspected, I am homozygous for MTHFR C677T (so is DS1) which puts me at increased risk for recurrent pregnancy loss, preeclampsia, infertility, Down Syndrome, blood clots, etc. :(
I looked back at the radiology report from my ultrasound when my miscarriage started and it stated that a subchorionic hemorrhage was seen, which is a blood clot. Everything I've read says someone who is homozygous for MTHFR C677T should be on baby aspirin and/or lovenox during the pregnancy to prevent blood clots. So looks like I was doomed to have a miscarriage from the start.

On top of all that, my blood tests also showed that I had low cortisol levels. So my doctor wants me to have a cortisol stimulation test in the next week to check to see if my pituitary and adrenal glands are working properly!

Soooooo, with all this new knowledge I'm putting any attempts on hold, which isn't hard since DH is still talking about getting a vasectomy and using condoms or the pull out method! My main priority right now is getting my iron back in the normal range so I can stop feeling like a walking zombie. I've started eating red meat again, am drinking green smoothies with lots of greens, and taking my 300mg of iron a day. I'm also taking magnesium and vitamin D daily and eating pumpkin seeds daily as they are high in magnesium. Once I get my iron back in the normal range I think I'll actively try to get an attempt in again and stop the red meat, but right now I just need to work on feeling better. I will continue to skip breakfast, drink caffeine and alcohol, take my daily cinnamon and folate, and DH is still taking OLE. I stopped my fiber as I really need to be absorbing some nutrients!

Any other advice Atomic?

I think you're doing the right thing on all fronts. I do want you to be gentle with yourself when looking for causes - because everyone always does it and we want to be able to pinpoint X,Y, Z that we can change to prevent this from happening in the future, the vast majority of miscarriages are from things that were totally outside of our control and nothing other than sheer bad luck.

A subchorionic hemmorhage is NOT a blood clot. It's a hemmorhage. Your placenta bled a little bit. And as always happens, when a bleed occurs in your body, a clot forms that stops the bleeding. THat is normal and there are literally hundreds of us on here who had SCH and a clot formed and then over the course of time it resolves itself. It's great you're getting treated for the MTHFR but I don't want you to look at that SCH as anything more than something that happened, may or may not have contributed to the loss, you know??

Above all else, stick with the one attempt. That seems to be the most reliable sway tactic aside from diet. :)

Wishing you the very best of health and hoping to hear BFP from you very soon!

I think you're doing the right thing on all fronts. I do want you to be gentle with yourself when looking for causes - because everyone always does it and we want to be able to pinpoint X,Y, Z that we can change to prevent this from happening in the future, the vast majority of miscarriages are from things that were totally outside of our control and nothing other than sheer bad luck.

A subchorionic hemmorhage is NOT a blood clot. It's a hemmorhage. Your placenta bled a little bit. And as always happens, when a bleed occurs in your body, a clot forms that stops the bleeding. THat is normal and there are literally hundreds of us on here who had SCH and a clot formed and then over the course of time it resolves itself. It's great you're getting treated for the MTHFR but I don't want you to look at that SCH as anything more than something that happened, may or may not have contributed to the loss, you know??

Above all else, stick with the one attempt. That seems to be the most reliable sway tactic aside from diet. :)

Wishing you the very best of health and hoping to hear BFP from you very soon!

Atomic,how you said one attempt. Would it sway blue if we had an attempt on Thursday and another one tonight? Just asking as my opk is nearly positive. Any advice would be great

Odds of pink with one attempt about 70%
Odds of pink with two attempts about 60%

So still pink friendly

My positive opk muat have bee yesterday,as today it was as negative.We had another attempt today (Sunday) and our other attempt Thursday 18th,is this classed as two attempts?

yes

So won't this sway boy?

Bump

Quote:

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Originally Posted by eleena2014

So won't this sway boy?

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1 attempt is getting about 70% success for pink.
2 attempts is getting about 60% success for pink.
2 attempts is less sucessful but still overall seems pink-friendly.

Oh I wish it would have worked out so it was only attempt. Oh well it's not as if we did two attempts in one day,it was spaced out over 3 days. Dont know of that makes a difference or not

I don't have enough info to be able to say, I'm sorry. It may be different for every couple anyway (some men may have more/healthier/longer lived sperm, some women may have more/better EWCM)

Please don't beat yourself up, FX for pink BFP

If its any consolation...I got my only dd after a 3 day orgy of sex! Ok, not really an orgy but it was our first time away from our son and we DTD 3 times a day for 3 days. I felt honeymoon sore my the end of the weekend (still giggle and blush when I think of it!). Of course there were other factors that swayed pink, like a 14 month old son, weight loss, no cm to speak of and a nice 2 or 3 day cut of etc. But as for attempts...could not have had more sex and orgasms if i tried!

My dh seems to have good sperm as we concieved in the 2nd month trying with ds2 and my last pregnancy before the miscarriage was a one hit wonder. We will just have to see. Come to think of it,I haven't been eating too good at all in the past month after the miscarriage,as it took me a while to recover,then we all had a bad cold and cough which we had for weeks. even after bfp in August as I wasn't feeling too good being pregnant. I definitely haven't put any weight on. Listen to me rambling on,I don't even know if I'm pregnant.lol.

And Sorry essence for taking over your thread x