Atomic - Q about Vitex please ...

Hi Atomic. I've been taking Vitex solidly for around 5 weeks now along with Saw Palmetto and, as you know, in my last LP I had lots of EWCM which you think may have been the Vitex trying to make up oestrogen due to the Saw P suppressing testosterone. My period was also a day late this month which has never happened before - could that be due to high oestrogen too? My period was pretty light (we were able to DTD on cd4) too. Anyhow, I'm wondering whether I should continue taking the Vitex until I O or whether I should stop it a week or a few days before I expect to O. Lower oestrogen has less evidence than lower testosterone right?

TIA x

Hi Zanacal - obviously I'm not Atomic (althought sometimes I'd like to be with all her knowledge!!!) but have you considered just taking it for 2 weeks then stopping?

Remember my thread on vitex ewcm? She told me if it causes more ewcm then for me to quit, some had successful girl sway by taking it up to the month of ttcing and quit, unless you wanna try the benadryl and zyrtec to help dry the ewcm up, but I wasn't taking SP and I had unusually amount of ewcm with just vitex

Yep, I was taking it only from AF-O then decided to take it 6 weeks solidly leading up to our attempt. I will stop taking it when I O in any case but I'm wondering if it might be beneficial to stop taking it even earlier just this month, say 1 week in to my cycle (which is soon!).

Thanks ladies x

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Originally Posted by zanacal

Hi Atomic. I've been taking Vitex solidly for around 5 weeks now along with Saw Palmetto and, as you know, in my last LP I had lots of EWCM which you think may have been the Vitex trying to make up oestrogen due to the Saw P suppressing testosterone. My period was also a day late this month which has never happened before - could that be due to high oestrogen too? My period was pretty light (we were able to DTD on cd4) too. Anyhow, I'm wondering whether I should continue taking the Vitex until I O or whether I should stop it a week or a few days before I expect to O. Lower oestrogen has less evidence than lower testosterone right?

TIA x

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Well, I'm not sure if it was necessarily the Vitex or just your body's response to the SP/lack of testosterone that may have been making estrogen in lieu of testosterone. And I'm also not sure that you have higher estrogen overall, but rather are making estrogen instead of testosterone - if ALL your hormones dropped off a bit due to diet, then you might be making estrogen and responding to it even if you have lower levels overall. Your body "wants" to stay fertile and so switches over to make estrogen and prog from the available resources because you can get by with a lot less testosterone.

I think your period was late because you ovulated late and that very well may have been LOWER estrogen, not higher. If you didn't have quite enough estrogen to trigger the surge and so your body had to wait to make more. I DO think that was probably the vitex working for you because that has happened to enough people so I believe that there's a connection there.

I'm sorry, I know it is confusing how the hormones work...not even the smartest researchers on the planet know how they work together. It it totally possible to be making less estrogen (and so O a bit late) and yet still have a higher ratio of estrogen because of the SP (and so have some more CM than is normal for you.) SP reduces both estrogen and testosterone, but we do not know if this happens in the exact same proportion. In fact I kinda doubt it does, because your body does not strictly need larger amounts of testosterone to conceive, and it "wants" to stay fertile so it may "try" a little harder to keep the estrogen at fertile levels than it does the testosterone.

We always have to keep in mind that our bodies are doing things regardless of the herbs we are taking and these things may not be predictable or happen smoothly.

Lol, that hurts my head, I'll carry on with the supps until I O :D Thanks for the explanation (which I'm about to re-read!).

I see what you're saying, thank you!

If it helps, the SP has made me have significantly lighter periods than ever before in my life. The last time I had a TSH draw (last summer), everything was within normal parameters. I was taking SP. I have never had my estrogen tested because I guess estrogen works completely differently than testosterone and blood tests aren't always effective. So I guess what I'm trying to say is, I don't know if my periods are lighter because of less testosterone and/or more estrogen. I'm still symptomatic of PCOS in other ways, so I'm not too sure.

When I was taking vitex (just vitex, no SP), my cycle shortened by 2-3 days consistently which was kind of obnoxious.

Anyway, I'm taking both at the same time right now. I'm just experimenting. I'm expecting to ovulate in a few days and I can tell the discharge is changing already. I have been temping, but my temperature is all over the place because I do not have a consistent sleep schedule. I still seem to have the same amount of CM as usual at this time of month. We are not trying this month. I just wanted a test run. I wish I could give myself my own blood tests.

Good luck with your sway this month!

Thanks so much fresas.

Historically I've ovulated on around cd14 but since taking the SP and Vitex together I seem to alternate between slightly shorter and slightly longer cycles! This month cd12 (at least I hope so - that's today!), last month cd15 and the month before cd13. I guess they're still all very close to cd14 and I never monitored that closely in the past but I'm pretty sure this is different for me. Regarding the EWCM, I seem to have a burst of it days before O but not very much (and not very many cramps) on actual O day.

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Originally Posted by zanacal

Lol, that hurts my head, I'll carry on with the supps until I O :D Thanks for the explanation (which I'm about to re-read!).

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yes, that was terribly confusing...let me try to put it into more concrete terms. Let's say you normally make 10 "units" testosterone and 20 estrogen, but as a result of the SP, diet, vitex you now make 5 testosterone and 15 estrogen. The ratio of estrogen to testosterone has changed from 1:2 to 1:3 although you are making less of both T and E.

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Originally Posted by fresas

If it helps, the SP has made me have significantly lighter periods than ever before in my life. The last time I had a TSH draw (last summer), everything was within normal parameters. I was taking SP. I have never had my estrogen tested because I guess estrogen works completely differently than testosterone and blood tests aren't always effective. So I guess what I'm trying to say is, I don't know if my periods are lighter because of less testosterone and/or more estrogen. I'm still symptomatic of PCOS in other ways, so I'm not too sure.

When I was taking vitex (just vitex, no SP), my cycle shortened by 2-3 days consistently which was kind of obnoxious.

Anyway, I'm taking both at the same time right now. I'm just experimenting. I'm expecting to ovulate in a few days and I can tell the discharge is changing already. I have been temping, but my temperature is all over the place because I do not have a consistent sleep schedule. I still seem to have the same amount of CM as usual at this time of month. We are not trying this month. I just wanted a test run. I wish I could give myself my own blood tests.

Good luck with your sway this month!

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Just to clarify because my previous post was a disaster and highly confusing, SP is believed to lower estrogen as well but it may not lower estrogen as well or as quickly as it lowers testosterone.

Lighter periods can sometimes be caused by lower estrogen because less of a lining builds up.

Thank you for sharing your experiences!!!

Thanks Atomic - it was less confusing the second time I read it :D