DTD...Fr or abstain question help please

I'm new here! I have been on IG for a few months. I have found a lot of information on this site helpful. I'm really conflicted on what is best for DTD. Can someone guide me to do FR or abstain....not sure what would be best for us. I will give a little back story as to why I'm conflicted. I'm 37 and DH is 35. We have 3 boys 14, 11, and 6. In 2004, a month before we conceived our middle son, DH found out he had testicular cancer and had one removed at the age of 23. His doctor said he needed chemo and that may make him unable to have kids in the future. His DR. advised us to freeze his sperm just in case. We had the clinic test his sperm to see if it was ok. The nurse joked that even with only one testicle his numbers on all tests were so good he could look at me and I would get pregnant. We decided to try to get pregnant before his chemo started. We DTD everyday for at least a week and got pregnant that month. Fast forward to 5 years past his chemo and we wanted to have another baby. Not knowing if we could get pregnant we tried anyway. We DTD everyday at least a week and I got pregnant with our 3rd son in 2 months. So it seems he still has super sperm and FR still gave us boys. Or maybe that wasn't FR enough. Now it has been 6 years since our last son was born and I wonder if FR will get us yet another boy. I had read on this site that abstain isn't good for men over 35. He turned 35 5 months ago so I'm not sure if he would be ok. Also I'm pretty sure we DTD through OV with all three so I feel like a cutoff might be better but again I just don't know. Please help me figure out what would be our best plan. Both our hearts pray for a little girl to complete our family. Thanks

Hi 247

You have come to the rite place! Everyone on here is extremely helpful and whilst i wont advise you i just wanted to say hi! My hubby and i are 38 and therefore will not do abstain but are more than likely going to try fr for our first attempt and will drop it if we dont get a BPF in a couple cycles! i will say that this is the explanation i have for FR - FR is 7-10 days of husband release NOT INSIDE before having one unprotected attempt. It is NOT DTD every other day, it's not 3 attempts around O, it is not hubby skipping a day every couple of days, it's not anything other than having 7-10 days of release before 1 unprotected attempt. As for cutoff, there is an essay on here called "The trouble with timing". I came to this site with a Shettles mind using the cut off theory for girls, however my mind has been changed. Hope this helps a little!

Diet and exercise are what sway the most so focus on those. As for BD, I'd have DH do FR on his own and no matter stick with one attempt at positive OPK! Your diet, lifestyle, and other biological factors, are the primary reasons for your boys, though frequent unprotected BD may have contributed. But DH releasing daily on his own and having only one attempt is VERY different (instead of all his sperm building up inside you, he'll be getting rid of most of his sperm OUTside of you). One attempt has gotten great results when combined with/diet exercise. I'm not a fan of abstain as I don't think it sways much and it can inhibit conception. Better to keep sperm fresh and hopefully lower count a bit with FR.

Hi Squigglepink
Thanks for your information. I did read about how often to do the FR somewhere. Just still worried it's not enough. I came here with a Shettles mind also and now I don't know what to think. I'm hoping some with girls will chime in and say what they did.
Thank you

Hi maidentomother
Thanks for the information. One attempt is what I am sure about...it is at the positive OPK that scares me. It makes since though about the sperm builing up inside. I never thought about it that way. I have been doing the IG diet but think I may switch to LE. I'm so confused about the supplements now too because I'm taking the ones that IG says to take but on here I have read I should be taking totally different ones. As far as workouts go I used to do cardio everyday but only about 20-30 min a day. Haven't done anything for a few months though. How important is it to do the cardio?

Your husband should do NEITHER. Just have him release every 2-4 days and then keep the one attempt.

One attempt is what is swaying pink for us. It's way, way more effective than FR is and so by DTD several times you may have inadvertently swayed blue.

Timing doesn't sway. Frequency isn't earning its keep. Having only one attempt in the fertile window has been EXTREMELY effective for us and thus I would recommend focusing on that. :)

HI and welcome BTW

Quote:

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Originally Posted by 247mommy

Hi Squigglepink
Thanks for your information. I did read about how often to do the FR somewhere. Just still worried it's not enough. I came here with a Shettles mind also and now I don't know what to think. I'm hoping some with girls will chime in and say what they did.
Thank you

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I got 3 of my 4 boys with cutoffs and my girl very late at night only a few hours before O days.

Please read the scientific case against timing here. http://genderdreaming.com/forum/gend...le-timing.html

Even Tamara agrees that Shettles was wrong. I don't know why they continue to promote Shettles on IG.

Give me a recap of what you're taking and I'll help you by explaining why we recommend or don't and then ou can make up your mind.

Cardio has been among our best tactics all along, very effective, very consistent.

Hi atomic
Thanks for your reply. I do plan on only one attempt but how do we try to lower his sperm count? Everything I read about swaying says DTD every 2-4 days for boys but for girls it says daily protected or abstain until your attempt. I don't feel confident in our attempt if we don't do something to lower sperm count for him and lower testosterone for both of us. After reading one of your posts I may fit the trait of possibly having higher testosterone so I should lower that somehow if I do. Is there a supplement and/or drink to help lower testosterone for both of us? Is there a supplement and/or drink to help lower sperm count?
In reply to your other question about supplements I am taking:
Calcium citrate (af-o)
Magnesium (af-o)
Folic Acid (everyday)
Cranberry(af-o)
Husband also takes all the above but no folic acid. No breakfast for me and eat 2 times starting at noon. I have been eating rice, pasta, no sodium bread, strawberries, cucumbers, eggs (switched to egg whites after reading that was better), cheese or cream cheese sometimes. Drinking water and great value sugar free drink mix with aspartame. I don't like to drink milk so I haven't been drinking the 3 glasses a day suggested by IG. I thought I was ready for our attempt in about 12-14 days but now after reading things on this site I feel like my plan isn't as good as I thought. I'm in tears now so confused this is my last pregnancy my body can handle and I feel like crap. I need to do everything I can to feel I did all I can do. I don't want to diet anymore.
All the above supplements and diet mostly came from IG suggests but this site I see most using asprin, fiber, zyrtec or Sudafed. I don't know why these are suggested. Diet seems similar but you can have more options with LE and the drinks on here I see diet coke or coke zero, coffee, peppermint tea. What is the peppermint tea supposed to do? I read something about it but I can't find it now? As far as cardio goes how long do we need to do it? If it were zumba 45-60 min or more intense like t-25 or insanity maybe 25-30 min would that be ok? Sorry I'm all over the place but that is exactly how I feel now....all over the place, sad, and confused.

Your husband already HAS lowered sperm count because of his testicular cancer.

Can you please bump the rest of this post as it's late for me now and just doing easy q's.

oh no problem

Hi Atomic
Just making sure you didn't forget about my questions a couple days ago

Thanks for the bump and patience.

Neither FR nor abstain is getting good results. Both of them have been terribly disappointing. Additionally most of us on here have 2-3-4 or more timing opposites and timing has been totally debunked. http://genderdreaming.com/forum/gend...le-timing.html

What is seeming to work is a combination of diet, exercise, and one attempt in the fertile window. When you got your boys, you had lots of attempts during the time period when you were fertile. You are getting confused and calling this FR, but it ISN'T FR. FR is 7-10 consecutive releases NOT INSIDE of you and then one unprotected attempt. What you guys did was have many attempts in the fertile window which sways blue. It had nothing to do with your timing or the fact that you BD through O either, because you do not even know that it was the O Day attempt that got you pregnant.

So again, I think it would be best for you guys to have your husband do regular release every 2-4 days, this will make a nice amount of fresh healthy sperm, and then keep one attempt. I know it feels scary to do regular release, but the important thing is that one attempt. Both abstain and FR have 12-15% LOWER results than one attempt (with any frequency pattern) so to try to include a frequency pattern, all you're doing is lowering odds of conception. They aren't working, and it's best to get pregnant quickly with one attempt so you don't ahve to stay on diet a long time and end up risking ovulation being delayed or stopping.

No man with a history of chemo should EVER do abstain, regardless of age. That is totally off the table. And FR (true FR) is NOT how you conceived your last two boys anyway. Plus that was 6 years ago and things can change in that time. I really, really strongly urge you guys to do the regular release with one attempt.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by 247mommy

Hi maidentomother
Thanks for the information. One attempt is what I am sure about...it is at the positive OPK that scares me. It makes since though about the sperm builing up inside. I never thought about it that way. I have been doing the IG diet but think I may switch to LE. I'm so confused about the supplements now too because I'm taking the ones that IG says to take but on here I have read I should be taking totally different ones. As far as workouts go I used to do cardio everyday but only about 20-30 min a day. Haven't done anything for a few months though. How important is it to do the cardio?

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Cardio is very good results. By far better than supplements or FR or abstain.

Short version of LE Diet is here: http://genderdreaming.com/forum/tryi...l-version.html

Some of the IG supps are unsafe, others may sway blue, if you give me a brief recap I'll go over them.

haha ok I see you already did LOL

Please don't be sad and confused. It's ok. I understand it feels frustrating to think you have a handle on things and then find out that you don't, but most of us on here got opposites doing things the IG way (or got very ill or couldn't get pregnant) and we're trying to improve upon that to get ourselves and you and everyone else, BETTER chances. We aren't trying to be controversial or diffferent just to be obnoxious, it's because we want more people to get their desired gender safely and sanely.

I understand that every 2-4 days is technically a "blue frequency" but we have tracked our results and KNOW that none of the frequency patterns ALONE are swaying very much if at all (including every 2-4 days for blue) It is number of attempts first and foremost. So please don't worry about that - while I keep them in the mix for those who want to use them, they need to be the first thing to go for anyone who cannot do them for whatever reason (or do not get pregnant with them.) The rules HAVE TO BE different for you. you are in a unique set of circumstances and I fear that if you try to do FR you will get BFN after BFN.

The best thing you can do to lower testosterone (if in fact that is even what is swaying, which we aren't totally sure) is to do LE Diet and fiber. We have used herbs that supposedly lower T levels and gotten really rather disappointing results with them and I would not recommend them in your situation anyway.

Calcium/magnesium, while I personally don't believe in them and got boys while taking them, is at your discretion. But you HAVE TO take them all month long. I know IG claims it's ok to do take them af-o to "save money" but you should NEVER EVER EVER take vitamins/minerals off and on like that. Your body gets used to the higher levels and even excretes higher amounts than normal when you take excess amounts, and then when you stop suddenly it can really mess up your system. Since cal/mag are used by your body for lots of things it can really cause you to feel quite bad (and even possibly cause you harm) to stop and start them this way.

I don't think cranberry is safe (which is why I tend to use aspirin) and our results show it to be totally neutral anyway (as is the aspirin and we have moved away from both.) If you feel like you're tolerating it ok it's up to you though.

Everyone should take folic anyway. :agree:

Since you are not drinking the massive amounts of milk and eating tons of chicken and eggs I actually think you're fine to try this month if you want. Your diet is still quite restrictive. What I do NOT want you to do is drop diet now. I would have you switch over to LE which is much less restrictive and easy to stick to, but that is one of the main issues with the IG Diet is that it's so impossible to stick to people end up giving up, even though diet is among the most effective sway tactics. Don't throw out the baby with the bathwater here, just let yourself gradually relax on diet in a more LE friendly way without completely abandoning the idea.

Like I mentioned we use aspirin instead of cranberry becuase it's safer since you can take aspirin into early pregnancy and wean off gradually instead of having to drop it cold turkey at O. It also has less nutrients in it. But neither cran nor aspirin has gotten spectacuar results (both appear neutral) and since both have side effects I don't use aspirin that much either any more.

Antihistamine vs. Sudafed - Sudafed is unsafe for women to take particularly when they're also on cran or aspirin. I would not give it to your husband either. Antihistamine does the same thing Sudafed is supposed to BUT the results again have been disappointing (neutral) and it also cuts odds of conception. while most people do give it a month or two, I would not recommend it for you due to your husband's medical history.

Peppermint tea may lower testosterone for DH and DW both but it has really messed up people's menstrual cycles and lowers sperm health and quality by quite a lot. Again not something I'd recommend for you but you can do 3 cups a day from AF-O for you if you'd like.

Cardio needs to be 60 min. Zumba is great. I would not do the musclebuilding ones like t25 or insanity.

Atomic,
Thank you so much for all your information. Big hugs to you! I have more questions though! :) I have read many sway attempts and outcomes on an old forum. I can't seem to find very many that are new results. Is there a forum I can look up to find newer ones? I did find a couple newer girl results and they both BD every other day with one attempt. I know you said every 2-4 days to DTD and that frequency doesn't matter but would every other day BD (protected) be an ok pattern for us to do with only one attempt? I feel like I need a set pattern probably from all the other info so fresh on the brain still and from reading others success with that pattern.

I also read today about the peppermint tea messing up cycles so I will not be drinking that. Do you think DH should drink it?

Is Chitosan the correct fiber I should be looking for? That seems to be on a lot of the attempts with girl results. I tried to find it at Walmart and Meijer in the supplement isle....no luck. Is it usually found in the supplements? I haven't tried Walgreens, CVS, or the Vitamin Shoppe yet but I did look online at GNC and found one called:
GNC Total Lean™ Chitosan with Glucomannan. As a dietary supplement, take two capsules with at least 8 fl. oz. of water daily.
Serving Size 2 Capsules
Total Carbohydrate 1.00 g 1%
Dietary Fiber 1.00 g 4%
Chitosan 1000.00 mg 0%
Proprietary Blend 400.00 mg 0%
Psyllium Seed Husks Powder (Plantago ovata) **
Glucomannan Powder (Amoraphophalllus konjac) **
Inulin **
Fructooligosaccharides (FOS) **
** Daily Value (DV) not established
Other Ingredients: Cellulose, Gelatin
No Starch, No Artificial Colors, No Artificial Flavors, Sodium Free, No Wheat, No Gluten, No Corn, No Soy, No Dairy, Yeast Free

Not sure it's even available at our GNC store but is that one ok? If it's not good or I can't find it what is another fiber (pill form) that is easy to find and has been used by several successful girl sways?

Also as far as sugar goes what is the most grams we are allowed in a day?
Thanks so much

The frequency doesn't really seem to matter, I prefer every 2-4 days because it allows a better chance of conception not because it sways. Up to you

Any fiber is fine. The one you've listed is fine too.

Atomic
Is this fiber ok?:
Metamucil Psyllium Fiber Capsules
Ingredients
Psyllium Husk , Gelatin
Nutrition Facts
Serving Size : 5 Capsules
Amount Per Serving % Daily value*
Potassium 25 mg <1%
Total Carbohydrate 2 g 1%
Dietary fiber 2 g 12%
Soluble fiber 2 g *
Protein < 1 g
Iron 0.4 mg 2%
Calories 10 Calories

It says to take 5 capsules 4 times a day. So do I just take the 5 capsules at both lunch and dinner or do I need to take it 4 times? Does it matter if it is taken before or after I eat?

Is there a sugar limit to stay under for the diet?
Thanks

Yes, that fiber is also ok.

Sorry I see I missed a couple questions there.

I can't comment on whether your DH should do pep tea or not without a Custom Plan because while many people do use it, it's not safe for all guys so I can't say for sure. If he's in good health and has good sperm quality and not on medication it's probably fine for him but he need to do it alone and NOT with licorice. Don't have him use both.

Sway forum is here http://genderdreaming.com/forum/add-your-girl-sway-/ Please do not read anything into sways that peopel post though. Personally I would never do something because 2 people got pink that way. We have results for hundreds of people and it is THAT number you should pay attention to (or not for some things because even our stats can be misleading) http://genderdreaming.com/forum/gend...hts-stats.html

The only people who need to track sugar intake are those with moderate to severe PCOS. The rest of us, by virtue of limiting calories and having to get enough protein and fat for overall health will be eating less sugar than normal anyway. Don't worry about counting carbs or sugar unless you have pcos

Ok thanks for that information. I only asked about the sugar limit because I realized my calories were only about 1,000-1,100 and I wanted to add something with dinner high enough in calories but not go over fat, protein,sodium. Everything that has enough calories and sounds good is loaded with sugar....cookies or ice cream. If those are ok I'm all for it! :) Do you have any suggestions?

I'm sorry I forgot to ask about Olive Leaf Extract liquid or pill form. I can't find any new information on it and was wondering if it still something that works for pink? If so does liquid or pill have better results?

Those are great! Full sugar pop is another thing people (including me) have found helpful.

Yes we need to get those cals up.

I'm still on the fence about OLE, not sure if it really does anything or if it's a statistical quirk. liquid is supposed to work better but it tastes really bad and thus I recommend the dry leaf.

I did find the olive leaf extract at The Vitamin Shoppe but I'm confused as to how much DH should take. Everything I have read about OLE says they are taking 2 tablespoons but the directions on the one I found say to take 1ml (30 drops) which is a big difference.
This is the one I got:
The Vitamin Shoppe Olive Leaf Extract Alcohol Free 1000 MG
Supplement Facts
Serving Size 1 ML (APPROX 30 DROPS)
ORGANIC OLIVE LEAF EXTRACT - (1:1) (OLEA EUROPAEA) 1000 Mg N/A*
Other Ingredients:vegetable glycerin, deionized water.

How much should he take? The dose on the bottle seems so little is it even worth taking? Or should we just stick with the cranberry instead since we know he's fine with it? I did read that the two can't be taken together if that is correct.

Atomic bumping for the question above ^^^
Also wondering what your thoughts on high or low BBT are. My BBT while taking Cal and Mag last 2 months were higher pre O then they are this month not taking the Cal and Mag. I have read that you want high pre O BBT for pink. I also read that low BBT signals low blood sugar and low metabolism....so maybe this means diet is working to keep low?? Have you seen anyones pre O temps stay at 97.01 or so and get pink? Do I need to raise my BBT somehow or not even worry?

500mg OLE daily.

Your temps are just fine, well within normal range. If you click on my chart in my signature you can see my temps can get quite low right before O. You can also post your charts/a link to them, if you like. I've been charting for almost 15 years and would be happy to assess them overall. I'm very curious to see the temp change you mentioned, too! Temps can vary from month to month for MANY different reasons and I would not necessarily assume anything based on those variations.

There is absolutely no evidence suggesting that temps correlate at all with gender conceived. If there were a link, it would really depend on WHY your temps were higher or lower than usual. And we don't even know that high P or low estrogen sway pink. I've never heard that low blood sugar causes low temps. Very low temps can sometimes indicate hypothyroidism/low metabolism, but your temps are not that low. Are you temping orally? If so, I recommend you temp vaginally next cycle. You may mouth breathe which would lower your temps artificially.

I answer questions from oldest to newest so unless it's been like a week I wouldn't bump it, because it actually takes me longer (since it goes back to the top of the posts and looks like a newer post to me.) Thanks for patience.

500-1000 mg is the dose we use. I can't really pin it down more than that, it's dependent on a guy's physical size and what he tolerates. A guy who's 5-6 will need less than a guy who's 6-6. :)

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Originally Posted by 247mommy

Atomic bumping for the question above ^^^
Also wondering what your thoughts on high or low BBT are. My BBT while taking Cal and Mag last 2 months were higher pre O then they are this month not taking the Cal and Mag. I have read that you want high pre O BBT for pink. I also read that low BBT signals low blood sugar and low metabolism....so maybe this means diet is working to keep low?? Have you seen anyones pre O temps stay at 97.01 or so and get pink? Do I need to raise my BBT somehow or not even worry?

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WE do not know enough to know. I understand the theory, which is that lower estrogen = higher temps and more girls, but there is really VERY little evidence proving that this is true. All women need quite a lot of estrogen just to get pregnant to start with, and the idea that you should have high progesterone before O (and thus higher temps for that reason) cannot be true becasue high progesterone prevents ovulation, we ALL have low prog. before O. We just don't know and I think the more hung up you guys get on these little details, that undermines a pink sway in a big bad way anyway. There are literally a thousand reasons why temps might be higher one month than another and I would not want to speculate about that when I really don't know.

If the cal-mag is concerning you, add it back in. But just understand that it is NOT your temps per se (if there is even any clearcut correlation, which I find a bit dubious) but the hormones that you're experiencing that would sway. so don't get so focused on making your temperature come up a certain amount on a thermometer that you lose sight of doing what is actully working. :)

I hope it's okay to continue to post on my original thread since the first post explains our situation. I took a break from the internet for a while when I figured out a plan so I would not stress. Well we have had 3 months and only one attempt each month. I'm wondering if I should change anything because I'm not pregnant yet. The last two months my luteal phase has been 9-10 days and my period has came 4 days early both months giving me a 26 or 27 day cycle (never happens). I'm worried this could stop implantation from happening. I'm thinking the diet must have caused this to happen. My cycles have always been 30-31 days, ov around day 16 or 17 and my luteal phase is 12-14 days. I know I am ovulating because my temps do rise and stay up until my period but another thing I have noticed while on the diet is the day after ov my temp goes up a little then goes up higher the next day where is stays normally after ov. I do get a noticeable temp dip the day of ov so it's kind of a slow rise for one day after which didn't happen before. My diet since starting this has pretty much been pasta, rice, white bread, butter(for fat), cheese, zucchini, and frozen yogurt while sticking to the #s I should stay within for calories, fat, and protein. When I first went on diet I also included eggs but the last couple months I hadn't had them and that is the only thing I changed. During the 2WW each month I eat lots of fruit and ate more variety of things but no meat. I drink a couple crystal light a day for a few days around ov. Besides the diet I take folic acid cycle day 1 to a day or 2 after ov and switch to prenatal during 2WW(I just feel better doing this for some reason). I skip breakfast daily and take Fiber before lunch and dinner. I do 60 minutes of Zumba 7 days a week from cycle day 1 to a day after ov. My husband takes olive leaf and drinks one glass of soy milk from cycle day 1 to our attempt. He also drinks a couple crystal lights for a few days before our attempt. He's a big coffee drinker but refrains from it the day of our attempt. He switches to boxer briefs only during cycle day 1 to our attempt and goes back to boxers during 2WW because he hates the others. We BD every 3 or 4 days protected and one attempt at +OPK unprotected. So we really aren't doing a whole lot to block pregnancy and our other babies only took 1 or 2 months. Sorry so much info just want to include everything I can think of. Is there anything you would suggest for us to change or add to help us?

9-10 days is actually enough.

I want you eating 1 serving of full fat dairy a day (or more if you're already doing that) 4-6 eggs a week, and one serving salmon or red meat a week.

Instead of doing what you're doing with your prenatal, because this is not good for you and may be contributing to the problem, please just take the prenatal 3x a week all thru the cycle.

I would have you switch to every 4 days unprotected. You can do this with or wihtout the additional attempt at positive OPK - without may be more pink-friendly, with may be better odds of concepiton.

Thanks so much Atomic. If you think the prenatal could be part of the problem I think I will just stick to the folic acid the whole time until I get a BFP and switch then. I have been eating one slice of full fat cheese and 1/2 cup frozen yogurt daily so I have been getting 2 servings of dairy daily. I was looking into my charts again and noticed something else. The first month starting fiber supplements I started them on cycle day 10 and took them until the day after ovulation so that was about 7 days (lunch and dinner). My cycle that month was 30 days which is my normal. The following 2 months I started taking fiber on cycle day 1 and took them until the day after ov which would have been 17 days (lunch and dinner) both months. Those are the 2 months my cycle changed one was 27 days and this last one was 25 days. My whole life my cycles have always been 30-31 days. After reading some things online about fiber supplements messing up some women's ovulation I got to thinking is it possible that these supplements could be messing up my cycle. I also read that it caused some to get their period late but didn't see anything about them getting it early. It doesn't seem to affect my ov but could it be shortening my luteal phase? Do you know of this happening to others from taking fiber supplements? Or is it just a coincidence that it happened on these months of taking more fiber?

I don't think the prenatal is the problem, starting and stopping it suddenly may be. Your body gets "scared" because suddenly it has way less nutrients coming in, in addition to the potential effects of the presence/absence of B vitamins. Just take them consistently 3x a week instead.

Fiber can actually contribute to short LP because if you're not getting enough fat, then it will absorb what little you are getting. Go ahead and drop them for a while until things seem to normalize OR just take them only with cheat meals if your'e having one.

I think it is FAR more likely that you've just cut back too far and the on again off again thing with the prenatals wasn't helping.

Now it seems I'm not ovulating this month. What is going on with me? Normally ovulate about cycle day 17. Thought things were going good with the changes I have made. Had a little ewcm on cycle day 17 and we bd that evening even though my opk was only high fertility. I have been using the Clearblue digital opk that tell you 4 days including estrogen surge. It had been high fertility for 4 days already. The next morning (cycle day 18) still high fertility but by 1pm I finally got a peak reading on the opk. Since we BD about 12 hrs prior we decided not to again when I got peak. Now I'm on cycle day 21 and still no temp rise above cover. Very confused as I have had creamy cm for past 2 days but no sore breasts which both happen after I ovulate. If I didn't ov yet why would I switch to creamy cm as though I did? Here are my temps all taken at the same time can you make since of it?:
Cycle day 16: 97.22
Cycle day 17: 96.96
Cycle day 18: 96.88 (+opk at 1pm)
Cycle day 19: 97.02
Cycle day 20: 97.22
Cycle day 21: 97.22
my cover line should be around 97.3 this month because all my temps have been 97.2 and under. Thinking maybe I tried to ovulate but didn't I started over with the opk this morning and got low fertility. ;'( Any thoughts and if I didn't ov yet anything I can do to kick it into gear to ov today? Upset I just want to get this cycle over with. ;'(

Still doing the dairy, eggs, red meat or salmon, and 3x a week prenatal right???

I do not think you ovulated, your body thought about it but "changed its mind". That is why CM went back to creamy, you were probably making estrogen gearing up for O, and then your body changed its mind and backed off the E production a bit. Since estrogen helps make EWCM it went back to creamy again.

I would either keep doing the OPK or switch to every 4 days method. (BD unprotected every 4 days) because you will still O, most likely.

Keep doing the dairy, eggs, and salmon or meat like we talked about before. Try to get some extra sleep if you can.

I have been doing dairy and eggs. I don't like salmon and I rarely eat red meat even before ttc maybe once a month. I have only been taking folic acid. I haven't had prenatal since last cycle and I was just going to stick to folic acid daily until BFP because I wasn't sure if it was adding to my problems. We have been BD every 4 days.
This afternoon I saw some EWCM(not much) so I had DH come home on his lunch break just incase. :fx: Today would be the forth day anyway but I didn't want to wait until tonight. Hopefully it's a sign my body is ready to ov now.

Ok then do what you DO like in terms of protein foods one time a week. Chicken, white fish, turkey, whatever floats your boat. We're trying to give your body a chance at nutrients that you may not be getting.

Let me explain again the deal with the prenatals. It was not that you were taking them. It was that you were taking them for 2 weeks and not for 2 weeks meaning your body would basically go into withdrawals half the month when your nutrient intake vanishes. Your body gets used to nutrients at a certain level and then doesn't quite know what to do when they just go away like that. Since you may be depleted in nutrients, I'd have you take them 2 or 3 times a week instead of just dropping them in case you need the nutrients.

Keep going with e4d! :agree:

I'm in tears and ready to give up everything. AF showed up again. :( I finally ovulated on cycle day #22 really late for me. I had a 31 day cycle this month (which means that's back to normal) but my luteal phase was only 9 days again. I thought it was my month this time because I didn't have sore breasts after ov and I always do, I had wet cm on 7&8 dpo and I never do, and I had no brown spotting the day before AF and I always do. I think the best birth control is to want to get pregnant! :(
If I do take the prenatal 2-3 times a week do I take the folic acid the other days? Does it sway boy too much to take them daily the whole month? Maybe my body needs the prenatal everyday the whole month to get pregnant. My other pregnancies I was on them daily for at least a month prior to conceiving. Thanks for answering my questions and for giving us a place to let out our frustrations.

I'm sorry I know it's sooo hard. I do sometimes think the best birth control is TTC because the stress of it can delay O too. :/

You don't need them daily the whole month. The problem was taking them and then suddenly not taking them - that messes things up. Try them 3x a week and yes you would still take the folic alone the other days.