Gender selection with frozen embryos from previous IVF cycle?

Hi

Is someone able to help me? I have two beautiful boys and another on the way and I am hoping to make my fourth a girl in the near future. I am wanting to start the process and explore how I could possibly go about using the embryos that I already have in storage from an IVF cycle I had to do to conceive my first son.

I have heard from the Genesis clinic who seem to suggest that it would be illegal to do gender selection with existing embryos and it would only be allowed with new embryos created using microsort? Seems odd to me? I would rather use my existing one obviously!

Looking at Cyprus or New York as am based in London.

Thanks heaps in advance
Claire

I don't know the answer but if NY is an option, I would go there instead of Cyprus. Cyprus has not had good results.

Thanks for your response. Obviously Cyprus is so much nearer which will make the whole thing easier and cheaper (and thus more hopeful to sell to my husband!!!) but I obviously care about success foremost. I have scheduled a consult with Dr Baverman in NY - is thee anyone in particular apart from him that would be recommended? Thanks heaps

I'm certainly no expert but I'm not sure if you would be able to legally ship your embryos abroad because of HSE guidelines, as I presume you would need to give a reason why you were doing this and obviously GS is illegal in the UK. Then I guess the other things you need to consider are what type of testing you would want to do and the logisitcs as the last thing you would want is to freeze your embryos twice. Can you not talk to HRC and ask them the question to find out if it's possible rather than going through the normal consult process? Personally I would have thought chances would be much higher of this working in US as simply because the technology is so much more advanced. Good luck x

You would have to find out if it is legal for you to ship your embryos. You would then need a clinic that has the capability to thaw, test and transfer without you having to re freeze them. Genesis can't do that. No European clinic can do that so the US is your only option for that.

HRC can do that. You could find it in NY but not all can thaw, test and transfer without having you come back for a FET.

Thanks heaps ladies for all the info. So I know it is legal and possible to ship my embryos - they are actually currently in Australia where we did the IVF and have found a courier willing to transfer them to any clinic of my choice.

But yes they would need to be thawed, tested and then refrozen - not ideal I know but I think possible..??

Seems like Cyprus might not be the best option so we might have to bite the bullet and do this in NYC. I have a consult booked so will ask them then.

Can someone clarify what HRC means?

Thanks again x

They do NOT need to be refrozen if you choose the right clinic. HRC can handle it. Most NY clinics require a freeze so they can't handle it. Cyprus is a poor choice.

I would combine them with a fresh cycle though. Not sure how many you have and how old you were when you cycled but when you add gender in, you lose a lot. Are you ok discarding healthy boys? You won't be able to ship them back and have them be viable.

Thanks for all this information - although I am thoroughly confused and finding my research very overwhelming

So I have since spoken to Savvas who has confirmed he will be able to thaw my embryos, test them and transfer them all in the same day so I would of course have to travel over to Cyprus not knowing if I will have any embryos to transfer. He does not recommending thawing testing and refreezing as too much stress on embryos

I have had a consult with Dr Braverman who I was not overly impressed with - very impersonal but yes he said he could thaw, test and refreeze until the test results come in to save me travelling before knowing if an embryo is available.

Fertility Institute in NY said similar to Dr Braverman too and could test in advance of travel

In response to your questions about how many embryos and how old I was when I undertook the cycle. I have five high quality blasts and was 32 when I undertook the cycle. Am now 36 but will probable be 37 by the time I do transfer. In respect of disposing of healthy boys - how I see it is that these embryos have already been created and will be donated for research or disposed of (as I do not want to have five more children and am not comfortable donating to another couple). So there is no real difference but I may find out if one of the embryos is a possible daughter for me?

I do not believe Savvas can biopsy a day 5 blast and do a day 6 transfer. Everyone cycling there is going back for a FET.

Can anyone confirm that?

Transferring embryos is tricky. You'll have a different culture media and you can't know if the embryos will survive the thaw. 5 blasts to biopsy is a good number and there could definitely be a healthy girl in there. Seems like odds are on your side. Some people attach a new cycle to doing this though just in case.

If Savvas is talking about using FISH, you can't do that on blasts as the cells have merged and you cannot count chromosomes any more.

New York has many great clinics but the day 6 transfer is your issue. Why not go to HRC since you can go solo? I know they can handle a day 6 transfer. You could consult with them via the link on here. It is free.

nuthinbutpink - thank you so much for your help and responses and apologies if I come across as a bit dim but this is all fairly new to me so might be asking silly questions!

Savvas isn't yet to confirm the type of testing he will undertake but is to send me an email but has confirmed on the phone that he could thaw in the morning a day 5 blast, test and do the transfer a couple of hours later so still on day 5? obviously it would be great if someone else cycling at genesis could give me their views on this and experience?

I don't feel comfortable putting my body through another round of IVF so if there are no healthy female embryos (or I do not become pregnant after a transfer) I will try to move on if that makes sense? I just want to test these embryos to see if I already have a chance of a girl!

HRC is based in LA isn't it? The costs of travel and the time to do so is just the thing putting me off but obviously if I am told that the odds are significantly greater then I will explore this more. I might arrange a consult in any case so I can understand their procedure and costs

Thanks
Claire

Hello Fingerscrossed, I've been to Genesis twice and really really like Savvas and thanks to him have my gorgeous DD (agasint very very low odds). However, I would be worried about sending your embryos to him as I simply don't think his techniques or lab is nearly as sophisticated as US and think you would have a much much better chance of it working (although no guarantees). Although flights to LA are more expensive if you went out of season think it would only cost you £300 or £400 more and you as it's a FET you wouldn't need to be there for very long. That would be advice anyway. Good luck. xx

Thank you so much for your email ever hopeful and that is definitely one of my concerns as my embryos have currently been stored at a very well know ivf clinic that has a sophisticated lab. It just happens to be in a country where testing is not allowed.

Re the option of goin to the U.S. of course this is something I may need to consider but from my research it looks to be costing about £2000 more just for the testing and transfer and that doesn't allow for travel costs on top? Have I missed something or does that sound about right? Obviously if we are talking success v no success than £2000 may become insignificant but I don't know how I will make that call

Ps congrats on your daughter!!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by fingerscrossed22!!!

nuthinbutpink - thank you so much for your help and responses and apologies if I come across as a bit dim but this is all fairly new to me so might be asking silly questions!

Savvas isn't yet to confirm the type of testing he will undertake but is to send me an email but has confirmed on the phone that he could thaw in the morning a day 5 blast, test and do the transfer a couple of hours later so still on day 5? obviously it would be great if someone else cycling at genesis could give me their views on this and experience?

I don't feel comfortable putting my body through another round of IVF so if there are no healthy female embryos (or I do not become pregnant after a transfer) I will try to move on if that makes sense? I just want to test these embryos to see if I already have a chance of a girl!

HRC is based in LA isn't it? The costs of travel and the time to do so is just the thing putting me off but obviously if I am told that the odds are significantly greater then I will explore this more. I might arrange a consult in any case so I can understand their procedure and costs

Thanks
Claire

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I honestly do not think AGH testing can be performed that quickly. I do not know what is is really talking about doing. Perhaps but nobody else does that.

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Since its only going to be a one cycle for you no matter of the results, I would look at quality clinics first. Not focus on the difference of money (if that doeant unable you ofcource). You have one shot with possible great embryos at 32, would not take the risk.

Just to update this thread but I asked a couple more questions of Genesis clinic following your thoughts and responses and got this email back about what type of testing they will do for my situation:


[I]We have been using vitrification since the onset of this technique more than
10 years back.
What you need to inform Genesis is the types of materials had been used to
vitrify your embryos so we use the exact same manufacturer's brand for the
thawing.
As it has been explained implementing aCGH on your blastocyst cannot become
a reality as these will have to be refrozen based on how time consuming the
diagnostic technique is.
We will be performing a 5 probe FISH for 13, 18, 21, X and Y following
trophectoderm biopsies. Your embryos will be thawed either late in the
evening of the previous day or very early in the morning of the embryo
transfer day. The success rates with frozen and fresh embryo replacements
are indifferent regarding pregnancies rates here at Genesis.
Please find attached a cost break down for your treatment as per your
request

This is all new to me so would appreciate your thoughts but one thing I have seen from my initial reading is that FISH isn't completely accurate for gender?

Bump - what do people think about above email from Savvas? I really like his responses so far and think he is a good option for those of us in Europe but a big part of me is thinking this is a one time option for me with just these 5 embryos so perhaps I should bite the bullet and go with America? Have emailed HRC and Dr Braverman

Really appreciate everyones thoughts and opinions as this whole process is new to me!

FISH is totally accurate for Gender so don't worry about that. However, with FISH it is a guessing game which embryo is the best quality unlike ACGH and given your embryos have already been frozen you really want to put back the best first, rather than re-freeze. As I said, I'm a Savvas fan but as you have one shot at this I would go with the experience of US. Good luck xx

What if you use FISH and you have 3 females. You would have only tested gender and 3 other chromosomes, not including 16 which causes most losses. How many do you want to put back? You will have to refreeze others and leave them at Genesis. Is that ok?

Do you want twins or triplets? CGH testing gives you to the control to put back one fully tested embryo. It reduces the odds of twins, and complications from pregnancy, greatly. Most people on here that have had twins have had complications and early labor. It is a real issue.

I would choose CGH, full, testing. FISH does not increase the pregnancy rate. It only tells you gender.

Really good points thanks - for some reason I thought FISH wasn't as accurate in gender as aCGH but definitely only want a singleton on board (I have three kids already so the concept of twins or triplets freak me out in terms of numbers let alone health). Totally see why aCGH help with this issue.

Definitely lots to think about - thanks again

Hi ladies

Am now researching clinic options in Czech Republic and was wondering if someone could pm me the details of clinic O and Dr Good that I have read about - can't seem to find what I needed from dr Google!

Thanks heaps
Claire