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Sorry I have no advice but will be following with interest as am sort of in a similar position. I have three babies conceived first time trying using cb fertility monitor, no swaying involved. Decided to start swaying for a sister for dd, was obese about two years ago and started dieting and exercising, nothing to do with swaying as I did not know about it then. In January I started lovely following le and increasing the exercise. Started diet and exercise hard core in April and we had attempt in June and July. Both unsuccessful, I think my timing was spot on both months. In total I have lost 7 stone and if I lose much more I will be underweight. Not the same as you as your low weight already but am wondering if weight loss is making it difficult for me to conceive? I am also exercising 6 days per week. Thinking of dropping the intensity to walking in case this is a factor. I discovered am only having lp of 9 days as well, the only other time I measured stuff in relation to ovulation was when I was trying for each of my babies, as I got pregnant first time I did not have an lp, so am not sure such a short lp is normal or not. It is such a frustrating process, fingers crossed and good luck!
Personally I don't think the seasonal factor can sway enough to make it worth skipping so many months of ttc, but if your primary reason for wanting the break is because you feel depleted or in need of a break for your sanity, that's completely different. Similarly, I know prenatals are generally a no for pink, but if you've been swaying this long and are worried about being deficient, do what you need to relax and sleep at night. Just my 2¢
I would try not to start panicking now, after only 2-3 months of good attempts, and unless a doctor confirmed a good reason to take supplements other than folic acid I wouldn't take them. Unless you are very unsure of it I think it would be better to drop the supplements and continue to TTC through the fall. I think the supplements are likely to sway more strongly than the month of conception. I know it's hard to decide when no one can really know what the outcome will be but that's what I would do.
As a former long term pink swayer and as someone that also had wacky cycles+low BMI, I'm going to tell you DO NOT skip months of TTC! Especially if it's for seasonal reasons. My niece and my mom were both conceived during prime "boy months" along with many other girls I know. If you're at a low weight then getting pregnant asap is very important. Not ovulating until cd20 is not a long time at all! Sure it's frustrating when your cycles change but it's still considered normal. There are some of us here (myself included) that can go months without ovulating (now that's frustrating!). It's totally possible to get pregnant at a low weight if you're ovulating (I did) but like I said, it's important to focus on getting pregnant as quickly as possible. Also, I highly recommend getting a custom plan with Atomic if you're feeling lost as to what to do. She's a huge help!
I'll echo that the seasonal factor is the weakest part of your swaying -- even though there's some science on it, your observations on your family are anecdotal. Plus, winter conception is linked to boys, and fall is "neutral," so trying now through then would still line up with your plan.
I personally think a prenatal would be good for you -- you have so much going pink here that it wouldn't hurt imo. I took a prenatal AND prenatal DHA and had a girl, I was just very LE otherwise.
You're still in the window of average times to conceive, but since time is an issue: your BMI is concerning. I personally think that could be a factor in conceiving here, but if it's not too different a weight than when you had your son, I'd think eating a healthier amount of calories but with different macros might help.
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It doesn't matter if your husband comes from a male heavy family. ALL men make equal amounts of X and Y sperm. My DH's family is very heavily female but we only have boys. Also, my mom was the first girl born in her family in 30 years!!
CE, I think you and I are very similar in our over analytical personality, haha. And with that said, I tell you that we are probably each other's hopes: the same person each ending up with the other's DG!
So because I think I get you, let me break my anecdotal tale down, since I had a lot going for blue, really:
*Martha personality to an outrageous extent (the quiz circulating around this forum said I had a 95% chance of having a boy based on that lol)
* Total blue DTD pattern
* Always O'd
* Was taking prenatals for months
* Was lifting weights for years
* Have no thyroid/permanent hypothyroid (though I was being run high to get pregnant)
* Got pregnant immediately
* Period has never been light ever until my first postpartum period. Seriously -- after no period from BC for years, my first period coming off of it was a bloodbath lol. Even when I "lost" my period due to anorexia when I was younger, it got irregular and stayed heavy whenever it did come.
Semi-possible blue things (in your mind):
* DH comes from boy heavy family
* DH has high T
* Conceived in September
* Was stressed (am always stressed to some extent though)
We got a girl, and my very LE factors were:
* Tons of cardio on top of lifting
* Low calorie (had an ED relapse)
* No red meat and not much other meat
* No breakfast ever
* Followed an intermittent fasting approach to eating
* Decent amounts of caffeine and regular alcohol use
I also had just come off the pill, and my DH was unusually stressed out from his job, was occasionally smoking a cigar, and had been boating in the sun regularly.
So there's some stuff to peruse.
Re: your calorie intake. Are you weighing and measuring your food to see if those calories are accurate? The truth is that metabolisms truly don't vary much from person to person unless there's a disorder/medical issue. People can burn more based on body composition, but if you're losing weight to the point of being underweight on those calories and you're not breastfeeding (are you?), I'd wonder if something else is up.
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Omg. I just had to say that I am feeling SO good about my (what I call weak) sway after reading this!!! I haven't been great with my L.E. diet aspirations, but I always skip breakfast, I'm a vegetarian and I do intermittent fasting (not even on purpose!) and I drink wine and coffee generously....Quote:
Originally Posted by Throwaway_panther
I just added in cardio to my sway, but not sure that will actually have a major effect on my swaying because I JUST started. But...I have a better chance at pink than I realized!
Thanks for posting that!!!
Oysters!Quote:
Originally Posted by Complex Emotions
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Was wanting to ask what you mean by running high with thyroid to get pregnant? I have had an underactive thyroid for five years. I was overweight when I was diagnosed but conceived 2 boys over five years no problem. I have a dd born before I was diagnosed, I am currently swaying pink. I got my bloods checked in may ahead of our first unsuccessful attempt in June and results indicated I was no significantly hyper, I was put of all medication for a week and now on a lower dose. Dose cannot be reduced further until blood work shows in a few weeks if it is necessary, does having a high level of thyroxine help to achieve pregnancy? I know a low can inhibit, does hyper sway pink? Many thanksQuote:
Originally Posted by Throwaway_panther
Meant to add, I have lost six stone in weight which is why my gp thinks am now requiring less meds!
Hyper MIGHT sway pink (there's some thoughts on that elsewhere on this forum), but ultimately I'm never hyper even when run at hyper levels because I don't have a thyroid, so I have a bit of a different case. Running hyper without my issue can also lead to infertility/miscarriage, so it's not a tactic to go for (my endo ran me high because women without thyroids have levels that drop really low once they're pregnant, so this was to stave that off).Quote:
Originally Posted by Girlieplease
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Just wanted to reiterate that I think May-June may have been a couple more normalish cycles stuck together.
I would prefer you take just a zinc supplement. You're eating well and you just don't need most of that other stuff. And yeah, if you have to do the prenatal, then I prefer just 3 days a week instead of the more control-freaky splitting the pill and I really wish you wouldn't have done all the calculating and calling the company for the same exact reason. If you want to take the stuff, take it. Don't do complex equations and telephone calls.
Skipping a prenatal doesn't make health problems, guys. I know I've explained it a ton of times but I would never, ever, times a billion over be involved in making recommendations that I believe could cause any child harm. It is fine if you want to take them but only folic alone has ever been demonstrated to prevent birth defects when taken before conception. Do what you have to do but factually speaking, the human race has been around for a long time, prenatals only 50 of those (max) and most of the people around the world do not use them. 80% success for blue taking them.
Cinnamon needs to go if you're having too much weight loss. Sorry didn't know you were using it. Even a small amount of cinnamon is strong stuff.
I do not think you need to gain weight in this circumstance. Just drop cinnamon and be real sure you don't lose more.
A half a day of spotting is not spotting. That is fine.
My humble advice is for you to not take time off for the seasons. I think it is a major step in the wrong direction and this whole idea of your zinc stores - can I very humbly mention the B12 thing??? you don't even know you're lacking in zinc. If you are, start the 8-15 mg a day or even 3x a week and you'll be fine. I think this is yet another control-freakish thing that is probably best not to be indulged. I got my girl in boy months and 2 boys in girl months. Only one of my 5 "followed the rules" from the study. I personally do not think it's worth anyone taking time off, especially given that you want a closer spacing between kiddos. To me, it feels really...not...good...LOL to start a prenatal just cause which may make you 80% likely to have a boy or even more (since that was among blue swayers who may be more set for pink to start with) and then indulge this worry about 2-3%. Worry about the 80%!!
eat more. Keep exercising. keep up with increased fat intakeQuote:
Originally Posted by Girlieplease
:agree: sanity is a different matter. anyone who needs a break to get their head right should always take one. I am talking about the people who pick and choose and analyze and write up pro-con lists ttrying to find the "magic month" without understanding that the control-freakishness is swaying a kazillion times stronger than any of the little things and people very well may end up freaking themselves out of a good month because they can't give up the efforts to control everything in their universes.Quote:
Originally Posted by Erin514
I am a Sept. conceived girl and my mom would be OctoberQuote:
Originally Posted by Complex Emotions
I was also conceived in either late September or early October! Just sayin! 😀
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Thanks, was never considering it as a tactic, am just really curious and since am struggling to conceive I an interested in all perspectives that have a connection to me. I did wonder if been hyper had inhibited my chances of conception but seems that is not the case. Thanks for replying xQuote:
Originally Posted by Throwaway_panther
Ok. We can sit around all day arguing about how many angels dance on the heads of pins here but I think you're missing the big picture which is you are trying so hard to justify the things you want to do that you're really just swaying blue anyway.Quote:
Originally Posted by Complex Emotions
If you want to take a prenatal, take one. Don't try to justify it by thinking that it's only swaying 50% (because that is not how this works, your body uses whatever nutrients it can get its imaginary hands on) or that stress sways blue or whatever. THIS is the reason I worry about you. It is the effort to control, control, control the situation so you can feel like you're doing what you want to do (which is take a prenatal) while still doing it in some magic way that won't affect your sway. Just take the prenatal! :) Or, maybe just the zinc, and maybe 3x a week.
You need to eat what you need to eat to hold steady on weight. I had to make calorie guidelines cause people needed them. that does not mean you have to slavishly stick to them; some of us have higher metabolisms and that's ok. I do want to stress that at your level of cal intake there is no earthly way you need a prenatal and vastly prefer you just do the zinc, but please do what your gut is telling you
I know I already answered another post about why your husband's family makeup is irrelevant so I'll refer you back to that thread.
Lissa and Complex, you both should listen to Panther because the three of you have very similar personalities and she did basically a pink sway without realizing it and did get a girl. This stuff matters, that's why I stress it to you guys is because it really does make a differenceQuote:
Originally Posted by Lissastick
they are out there - 8-15 is best, if you can't find that then you can usually find 25. your body is ok at storing zinc so I'd take that 2x a week instead of 3Quote:
Originally Posted by Complex Emotions
Re thyroid - do what you guys need to do under advisement of doctor with thyroid meds. Don't play with those levels for swaying as this is the main cause of non-chromosomal pregnancy loss.
Totally atomic, that was my fault, I wrote the question clumsily, just miscommunication on my part. No intention of doing anything with my dose of medication!
OK no worries, I just always like to mention it because sometimes people will read something on a thread and then misunderstand what was being discussed and then think "oh maybe I'll try that!"
Hi Complex Emotions,
I might be way off base here, but it kind of sounds like you may not be so sure about what you really want right now. If I was in your situation, I'd be feeling pretty conflicted too: wanting to give your little one a sibling as soon as possible, but also dealing with your own gender desire at the same time.
My sense is that each person who sways has their own level of commitment to swaying itself, and that this is balanced/offset by each person's desire to get pregnant, based on her own life situation and reasons. Maybe you are working on figuring out where you stand on this continuum?
It also sounds like you are afraid of your sway negatively impacting your future pregnancy/baby somehow. I don't know too much about it all, but if you are generally eating healthily enough, and listening to atomic about the deficiencies you do need to be cautious about (I know she has specifically mentioned potassium and iodine), I personally wouldn't foresee any issues. I'm new here, but my understanding is that a slight nutritional deficiency is kind of the goal for pink...my way of thinking about it is that I am such a healthy eater usually, I should be able to make up for any slight deficiencies in no time after I get pregnant. I can't wait to start inhaling eggs and avocados again..mmmmmm :cool:
Mostly it just sounds to me like you want to sway pink, but you also want to get pregnant fast, and to make sure that you and your baby are as healthy as possible (by doing things that sway blue). Maybe it would help to clarify your priorities to yourself?
I also want to say that if you do decide that getting pregnant fast and doing things to up your nutritional/fertility status is your priority, even if they sway blue, in my mind, that is a valid choice, too. :)
Personally, I would never add a prenatal or any vitamin (calcium/magnesium/zinc etc) as it's pretty well established by many studies out there that increased nutrients sway blue very heavily. As atomic already mentioned, they're a relatively new invention and we're not sure they really help anyway. Folic acid is the one thing proven to help with miscarriage and neural tube defects. If I wanted to get pregnant more quickly I'd add attempt or cut out exercise before restoring to vitamins.
I wrestled with the seasons thing forever too, but it really became a Mary/Martha control thing and I didn't want the testosterone to sway blue.
I think, like many boy moms do, we get bogged down in all the details and forget the big picture: anything that boosts fertility sways blue, and anything that decreases fertility sways pink.
Sorry if I wasn't clear -- being hyper can definitely inhibit conception. I can be run at hyper levels without symptoms because I don't have a thyroid, as well as it being a risk/reward thing because of my circumstances.Quote:
Originally Posted by Girlieplease
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I think the devil's in the details here and not helping your situation any. I know this may sound scary, but I would let the details GO. You know the basics of what really sways girl here, and I would stick to that. The LE diet is a healthy pre-pregnancy diet and will not prevent you from getting pregnant as long as you stick to the limits. If you can't exercise, that is fine, but I would be strict with the LE principles (at the very least go vegetarian).Quote:
Originally Posted by Complex Emotions
You will get pregnant if you give it time. It's ok to take a break, but do just that. Don't pour over things and stew over what may or may not be. I'm talking from experience here. I did all that you did and more (acupuncture, added in eggs, full-fat dairy, meat, vitamin d, zinc), and I'm rocking my sweet DS3 to sleep. I love him to the moon and back, but I was the undoing that brought him here.
Don't follow my footsteps. You can PM me if you want to talk more. I can say I've let Martha go and my family has benefited SO much from me doing that!
Hugs!!
[emoji170]DS1[emoji1379], DS2 [emoji602], & DS3 [emoji577][emoji170]
[emoji166]One last pink sway 2016[emoji166]
My Ovulation Chart
I know what you mean and there are so many junctures along the way of having a child where things can go wrong, but you have to remember that in the overwhelming majority of cases things go right. It's awe-inspiring, in a way.Quote:
Originally Posted by Complex Emotions
Complex Emotions,
I feel a lot like you do. Especially with potential GD. I am just so confused about all the things I feel. I want a healthy baby more than anything too. But, I'm not so worried about not taking prenatals. I know people that took them for a year before conception and had premies and sickly babies. And I know people who didn't take them until 6 weeks pregnant and had super healthy babies! My mom is one of them. She got a healthy boy and a healthy girl (my DREAM) And she was under weight, over worked, and a very poor eater with BOTH me and my brother, and back then, women didn't take prenatals until they knew they were pregnant. And she didn't find out until she was about 6 weeks along.
I am doing what feels right to me for my sway. And if I get a boy, I won't be surprised. I'll actually find it a bit delightful and amusing. If I get a girl, I will also be kind of surprised! Haha!
I just had a chemical pregnancy last month and I am thinking differently. I wanted that baby. So bad. I didn't know or care if it was a boy or a girl. I just wanted my baby.
So now, I am doing as many things as I can that is known to sway a girl and still get pregnant, fairly quickly - and I am leaving it at that!
My husband wants me to stop swaying entirely. He is starting to sound like he actually WANTS a second boy. I am not at the point yet that I could give up and embrace it. But, it might come to that. It's a good thing to know that if I wanted a baby boy really fast, I could get him! Hahahha!
I wish you the best of luck!!
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See atomic's post about me from earlier! Lol!Quote:
Originally Posted by Complex Emotions
Truly, no one thing makes or breaks anything. I took a prenatal. I am as anal as they come. I got a girl (and trust me, I wanted a boy and didn't know about swaying). I also even stressed hardcore about getting pregnant right away -- and I did get pregnant right away and still had a girl.
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Complex Emotions,
It's OK to be angry. :hug2:
You're caught between a rock and a hard place, here.
What would you regret more: having a healthy baby boy soon, and maybe never having a daughter, or continuing to have hiccups and maybe even problems or losses along the way (not saying these would be caused by swaying, but of course anything can and does happen where pregnancy is concerned - and my newbie observation is that for whatever reason, it does appear that there might be a higher than usual number of losses happening on these swaying boards), with a bigger chance of coming out of it all with a baby girl?
I ask this because when we were thinking about TTC our second child, I DID hear about swaying, and I chose at that time to not even look into it. At the time, my biggest priority was having a healthy baby and a sibling for my son, as soon as possible, and I didn't want to do anything with even the slightest amount of risk to it...I felt strongly protective of my unborn child and decided to just leave it up to fate/God. I then proceeded to do a lot of things that unintentionally swayed blue, in the name of health and giving my child the best start possible, and...of course I had a boy. :bluecheer:
I have to say that I am so, so glad I made this choice. And I'm saying this as someone who really might never have a daughter (my DH is not sure that he wants any more children). I'm so grateful that I didn't find out more about swaying at the time, or my little angel guy might not be here. He is the light of our lives, and there is nothing about him that a girl could do any better, YKWIM? And the bond between him and his brother, wow...he was truly meant to be. I love him so very much.:pickuphappy: If I don't get to have a third child, I'll finish my grieving process for my dream daughter, and then I'll embrace my happy life with my beautiful kids and I won't look back. Maybe you need to think about how you would feel if you end up where I am.
I think the point I am trying to get across is that you sound so scared, and like you think this is a lose-lose situation (either you have a less healthy baby, or a boy), and it's really win-win! Either you are eventually going to have a beautiful baby girl, or a beautiful baby boy. And your little one will have a sibling to love. And one of these things is going to happen no matter what you do, if it's meant to. :hug2:
It sounds like you have a really great mindset about swaying, Lissastick. I'm sorry to read that you lost a little one who you felt so ready to love.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lissastick
Thank you Serenity, your support means a lot and your suggestions are helpful :Flower:Quote:
Originally Posted by Serenity
you may not be able to and to me, that is a reason NOT to take a month off. If you want your kiddos closer together, taking time off to get your head right when you know you're not going to be able to (and trust me, the reason why I "get" this is because I have been exactly where you are with my brain on a hamster wheel!!) so you may only get yourself MORE revved up over the course of time and be right back here stuck in the Lollipop Woods like you're playing Candyland or something. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Complex Emotions
The reason I'm here is to dispense swaying advice. So, view what I say through that lens. I"m not trying to be insensitive or pushy. It's my job to talk about swaying. I agree with you, I do think the world (desperately) needs us awesome boy moms and like I've said before, personally I think boys should come in pairs like shoes and my second son is totally awesome and the thought of never having had him makes me practically cry just sitting here. But people don't come to me because they want me to tell them how great boys are and how we should just all accept our destiny as boy moms. They come to me to get a girl if possible.Quote:
Originally Posted by Complex Emotions
I have never been in the place that I feel like I gotta have a girl or I will die, BUT I do know that several of you guys do feel that way. I have seen people in this situation before and they end up really sad when they hurry ahead with TTC (and for some reason I do see a trend where the people with the deepest GD feelings either won't sway or give up right away). So that's all I'm trying to prevent. If you are ready to give up swaying, that's totally fine, I completely support you in every way. But I don't want you to go into that without being forewarned to whatever the best of my ability is, yk???
Yes. Exactly. I conceived a baby with a neural tube defect taking prenatals religiously and eating a super nutritious diet, and lost two babies I conceived taking them, and got my girl without them. My mom never took them with me, smoked like a chimney, and according to her, she ate potato chips and mustard most of the time LOL. Michelle Duggar was on national TV proudly showing all the vitamins she was taking, the week before her tragic loss. They are things we cling to instead of acknowledging the reality that nothing in life is a guarantee.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lissastick
A prenatal is like Dumbo's feather. It makes you think that you're doing something to prevent issues with your pregnancy but they're like a magic charm and you have the ability to make a healthy baby without them just like Dumbo always could fly, because we are BORN with that ability. If we weren't, there would not be 7+ billion people and counting.
If you want to use them, use them. If you can't live with yourself otherwise, take them. I took them with my 4th even though people told me not to, because I wanted to (and got a boy and just like Serenity, would not change anything about that). But just factually it is not true that taking them before conception will do anything to guarantee you have a healthy pregnancy (if you are a relatively well-fed human being) and anyone on LE Diet is getting all they need to get and stay pregnant (with the changes that we make over the course of time for those who need them).
In all honesty, we don't even know that they're safe. I have people take them, I take them, but there's a fair amount of conflicting evidence about their safety. We are all a part of the great vitamin experiment and we do not know what the actual effects are (and PLEASE ladies, avoid the ones that have super high megadoses!)
I'm going to bow out now. I don't think I"m helping and if this is a support thread and not an info thread then I will just allow that to occur without unwelcome input. :)
I'm glad you are feeling better, Complex Emotions. :happy: Congratulations on your step forward, and I hope this will be your month.
Whichever future you find yourself in will become your journey. All possible outcomes will somehow be flawed. All possible outcomes will somehow be sublime.
I'm imagining my son reaching out to grasp his sibling's tiny hand for the first time. In my mind the baby is dressed in white, not shown to be a girl or a boy.
This is all beautiful, and true. It is exactly how your son will view his new sibling, regardless of gender...as a new best friend and an incredible gift.
I think it is easy to get caught up in the illusion of control...like if you take steps A, B, and C now, you can create exactly what you want in the future, and prevent all bad things from ever happening.
I kind of imagine God/Fate/the Universe giggling indulgently at me when I think like that, and lovingly arranging my life to be just as it should be, despite all my puny efforts.
Of course you want to have a daughter! Why wouldn't you? It sounds lovely. I am guessing, however, that the actual reality is just as wonderful and challenging as everything else about having kids. I talked to my mom about this recently. She has two boys and two girls, and after listening to me, she said, "Well, of course I fully support you, dear, but it's not like they're really all that different from each other anyways, when you get right down to it." It really helped me to put things in perspective, and not worry as much about what is to come. If I do have a daughter, it's not like she's going to poop out roses or sing arias instead of crying, you know? :wink:
I'm grateful for this lesson in letting go...it sounds like you might be coming around to a similar place. :happy:
If it helps, that sort of peace sounds like a girl sway mindset!Quote:
Originally Posted by Complex Emotions
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