Levels not good

So, some of you may remember that after my 10wk MC in August 2015, I my AMH level tested in the November and it was 6.5. Just last week I had that tested again and it has dropped to 2.8. I was on the first day of a new cycle of AF when I had the bloods drawn. I also had FSH and LH tested. My FSH was 11 (it should've been between 1-6 for follicular stage) and LH was 5. I've no real idea what these figures mean but I do know that elevated FSH is a sign of the start of menopause. I am going to go back to FS to get advise but I don't believe I need a Hysterescopy any more. I feel it is more just poor egg quality that we're dealing with. I know Atomic that's what you've been saying to me all along, I guess I jurst needed this test done to convince me. Should I start taking other supps to help like vitex? I also have gotten ubiquinol.

Hi 1moregirl,

Are you seeing a FS because of age, time it’s taking to conceive, previous m/c, known infertility factors?
I imagine your FS was saying you needed a hysteroscopy to check that there was nothing “in the way”? (polyps, scar tissue, cysts or blockages otherwise).
The elevated FHS seems to correlate with the AHM levels declining – having said that, low-ish AMH doesn’t mean not fertile (I have great AMH yet don’t necessarily ovulate, nor well, when I do – and am classed in the sub-fertile/infertile category).
Your body might just have to work harder to get the ova ready for release hence the higher level readings (this does indeed happen more when getting towards the end of the fertile years).
The LH levels seem fine for CD1 though - have you also had ultrasounds to confirm what’s happening in there?
Have your progesterone levels in luteal phase been tested too?
Sorry for all my questions ^^

From your signature, you are swaying pink, and have been for a while (?) - I guess it could have depleted your overall nutrients and so forth, making your egg quality maybe a bit poorer… if you are ovulating regardless of your ovarian reserve seemingly declining – I would definitely focus on getting the quality of your eggs improving: Vitex would more likely regulate your cycles but if you are ovulating and are regular, the focus needs to be on having your hormones in balance (to ensure you an release eggs appropriately and get great progesterone in the luteal phase to help that bub be a sticky!) and ensuring your egg quality is as good as can be (which would be from diet and nutrients generally speaking – don’t think Vitex alone would suffice).
I was on Clomid for 2 out of three pregnancies (the one I wasn’t on a medicated cycle was a m/c which I’m sure was a boy– the other two resulted in my 2 DDs) – if you have history of infertility, that may be an option too – having said that, I certainly don’t advocate for it to be used unless necessary – as much as I have had to use it myself, am uncomfortable with the whole idea of “forcing” an egg to be released that may not have been otherwise…so if you are willing to try natural options such as Vitex etc at first, might be best ^^
Am swaying blue so won’t delve on supps that could help but are pink - wouldn’t want to give incorrect info – so hopefully the more seasoned swayers will have some helpful advice!
Good luck

Hi LMSM. I have seen an FS/ob/gyn last year due to my age (I turned 45 last October) and had a 10 wk MC in August 2015 when I was 43. I had my first baby at 36 and my third at 40. I got pregnant again in May last year but it turned out to be a CP (didn't last). My FS wanted to do a Hysterescopy in case there was scar tissue or adhesions left over from the 10 wk MC and D&C as it was quite horrendous (I had haemorrhaged and had retained products of conception so had the D&C and blood transfusion). I'm sure I have had progesterone levels checked before but was told nothing out of the ordinary. I always seem to have to really PUSH to get any testing done. It's ridiculous! I've never had clomid or Femara suggested to me either...maybe because I get a couple of positive OPKs each cycle so they think I am ovulating on my own. But I think yuo can still NOt release an egg even if yuo get Pos OPKs. Anyway, I have started the ubiquinol today again and will take 200mg per day instead of 100, and will think about the vitex. Thanks so much for your advice and please keep it coming as replies seem to be few and far between at the moment. Lol! ;)

Hi 1moregirl

FSH can be lowered by taking estrogen in the luteal phase (usually 2g per day along with ganarelix)....or.... you can also take low dose estrogen (20 micrograms per day AF-O)

Eggs love estrogen....which declines as we get older.

People have elevated FSH for years before they enter menopause. Decades. I have 28 year olds who have that FSH sometimes.

Numbers aren't destiny, even people with really terrible numbers can still get pregnant. You just have to keep showing up every month and trying and then hopefully the right egg shows up at the right time.

No vitex. We saw utterly dismal results for conception for women over 35 let alone older. Vitex only helps women with PCO issues to get pregnant and this has fooled people into thinking it is some sort of fertility aid, when it isn't at all, and in fact actually LOWERS your chances of conceiving and was once used as a birth control pill during the middle ages.

People have elevated FSH for years before they enter menopause. Decades. I have 28 year olds who have that FSH sometimes.

Numbers aren't destiny, even people with really terrible numbers can still get pregnant. You just have to keep showing up every month and trying and then hopefully the right egg shows up at the right time.

No vitex. We saw utterly dismal results for conception for women over 35 let alone older. Vitex only helps women with PCO issues to get pregnant and this has fooled people into thinking it is some sort of fertility aid, when it isn't at all, and in fact actually LOWERS your chances of conceiving and was once used as a birth control pill during the middle ages.

Thanks MrsG and Atomic. I really don't want to have to take oestrogen or anything if I can help it. Will see what FS says. I've started ubiquinol again and must persist with this. I will also just take prenatal daily and extra folic acid, plus an iron tablet every second day or 3 times a week. Does Vit b6 or b complex sway at all? I as going to take some of that that's all. I won't take the vitex then. If I can do all this naturally then that would be great. I really don't want to have a Hysterescopy or to take any thing like clomid or oestrogen, etc. on a positive note, a lady I'm friends with on a Facebook page for women over 40 ttc had similar issues to mine: perimenopausal, DOR AMH level of 0.2, FSH of 17 and was told by 2 clinics her chance of conceiving were impossible. She turned her fertility around with clean eating, vitamins and exercise and had a baby boy at 43 or 45. She went GF, only ate chicken or fish no red meat, tons of water, no sugar, drank RLT, green tea, Vit b6, prenatal, ubiquinol (only 100mg daily), DHEA 25mg, and 81 mg aspirin (until BFP). Once she got a BFP she was put on progesterone until 14 weeks. She had even had a tubal reversal to conceive this last child as well and had done a ton of research on natural fertility and how to increase yuor fertility naturally prior to ttc. She also said she walked about a mile every day, did yoga at home, plus the month she conceived her and her DH were both going to the gym. 3 months prior to conceiving she did castor oil packs on her abdomen (I had been thinking of trying this) along with self fertility massage. She messaged me a document that she put together with info she had gathered from reading on diff websites and books. Obviously some of what she says sways boy, so I don't think I would bother with those. BUT, I do know that I need to change my diet. It as been terrible. I eat chocolate almost on a daily basis, and I even put a teaspoon of sugar in my hot drinks of milo. I go days without eating any fruit. I often have toast for breakfast and sandwich for lunch (with wholemeal bread, but still, I probably should be going GF I think). I am going to start (as of today) making some serious changes to my diet and have already started walking a few times a day (now that our puppy is fully vaccinated and we can get him out). I need to eat more fruit daily, drink more water, and drink RLT and green tea once each per day. Does this sound good Atomic? I know I have said I would do this before but I find dieting hard. However, for my own fertility and general health I am going to give this a serious go. Does Vit b6 sway at all? Should I take extra magnesium or calcium other than what is in prenatal? Should I stick with SMEP or could it be too much for us? DHS semen sample was fine last time we had it checked. Plus, I swear EVERY time I see EWCM whilst on the toilet I get intense anxiety that night. It is sooooo strange. I am certain now that it is a sign of heading towards menopause, even though obviously I'm not there just yet. And somehow I stupidly feel more determined than ever for that one last baby...probably because my good friend had her baby on the eve of Easter Sunday. She had a beautiful baby boy (not quite 6 pound at 39 weeks) and now her family is complete with 2 boys and 2 girls (just what I wanted). I felt so strange when I got her text announcement. Maybe selfishly deep down I wanted her to have a third girl so that she didn't end up with what I wanted. I felt such a strange twisted feeling inside and I just cried. Even though of course I am obviously overjoyed for her and her beautiful family. It hurts to be 45 and almost grieving for your rapidly declining fertility when you have younger friends who are still highly fertile and easily able to have perfectly healthy babies. How hard is it to be a woman and how easy do the men have it? Lol! Sorry for rambling. I just know how all yuo lovely ladies understand and feel the same. How I wish I could be like some of my other friends who are in their 30s and maybe only have 2 kids but are totally done and dusted and content and have no desire whatsoever for any more babies. Hope you all had a lovely Easter and didn't overindulge in chocolate like I did. How I still manage to be 51kg I do not know but I do know that as of today I am starting to eat better and healthier. Not just for my fertility and health, but also to help encourage my children that healthier eating is the way to go. :) xxoo

Praying for you 1moregirl that you conceive that last little girl you long for. Clean eating is a great plan and will provide many benefits besides ttc.

I have been very naughty with the sugar lately also (all those Easter chocolates did not help)...

Have you ever tried a juice fast?

I did one in January and felt 1000x better after...plus it eliminated all of my sugar cravings.

If you're taking a multivitamin/prenatal already you don't NEED all that extra stuff. What happens too often is that people get these bad numbers and start taking tons of stuff and then they only create MORE problems for themselves as some of those things may actually screw up your cycle more.

I have suggested in the past to do the atomic fertility diet. You can do that gluten free if you like.

I really urge you not to go overboard taking things that you may not even need and may mess with your cycle like green tea and DHEA. I do not like people taking aspirin because it actually may cause more trouble than it fixes - especially given your history of blood loss. Only people who have a proven need for aspirin should take it. B6 will really mess up your cycle and you'll get enough in the prenatal. Try RRLT if you'd like, 2 cups during the first part of the cycle, one during the last part of the cycle, at BFP wean off by spacing doses (this should only take about a week)

Switch to folate instead of folic acid, think we talked about this before.

I personally don't believe in castor oil packs, if you want to try the massage, that's fine.

I do want to point out that what does happen many,many times is that people just catch the magic egg and assume that it was "magic pill number 476" or whatever that did it but it was just that they happened to make a good egg that month. Going gluten free and cutting back on sugar will only help though. That actually works, although difficult.

Thanks Atomic for all your advice. I know how annoying I have been posting the same questions in different posts at times and I'm just of those people that needs to rehash things a million times over before it Really sinks in. I don't have time right now with the homeschooling but I will post my chart later as it's doing strange things this time round. And I swear every time I see EWCM I get hit with anxiety....so it has to be a hormone thing going on.

Here is my chart so far. AF was a lot shorter this time....day one of spotting, then 2 days of medium-heavy flow and then a bit of spotting and then all done. It's really strange though that the EWCM has hit really early and a fair bit of it now and 3 days in a row. I'm only onto CD 10 today. I even did an OPK yesterday just in case but it was a definite negative. Yet I'm sure last cycle I didn't get much EWCM at all. And the strange BBT yesterday morning that jumped up out of nowhere. Atomic - do you think I need to ask for oestrogen? My anxiety does get a bit whacky at times so I'd rather not take any hormonal treatments if it risks making things worse. Anyway, here's the chart so far....

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Personally I wouldn't touch oestrogen with a barge pole - vicious and horrid and sent me slightly bonkers just before first HT attempt and I've never been prone to anxiety etc before. If I was you I'd just keep going, enjoy lots of BD and fx you will catch the golden egg. Good luck x

Thanks Ever Hopeful. I certainly don't think I need oestregen as 11 doesn't see, to be that high for FSH anyway. Thanks for letting me know of your experience with it. :)

I met a wonderful and inspiring woman today at our homeschooling catch-up who was holding her 2 month old baby girl and her 6th child. I was telling her how I'd love one more but it prob wouldn't happen because of my age. She asked how old I was and when I said 45 she told me that was her exact age as well. How incredible! She does have 7 children but one little one passed away a few hours after he/she was born sadly. But she was so upbeat and positive and just totally inspired me into believing that I can do it too. Just have to keep trying. Mind you, I'm not sure how I'm going to BBT tomorrow since our naughty puppy just chewed the entire end bit off my thermometer and ruined it. He got it off my bedside table. Oops! Lol!

I also have a lighter period and much longer EWCM pattern than I used to. I don't know if that's part of the process or what, but it does seem to be true for me too.

Personally I'd just get an anxiety med like Ativan that you can take as needed. You don't need to take them daily, it's possible to just keep some on hand and use when things get to be too much.

I have already started cutting back on sugar a bit but I'm not going to go overboard with diets. There's no point being miserable about diet is there? I'm still going to have the odd bit of chocolate here and there, just not as often. I am going to give it another go going GF as well. I have got another app with FS for next Friday also so will see what he says about my latest bloodwork and see what he suggests. I will see if there are any other procedures that check for adhesions or scarring that don't involve a Hysterescopy as well. I don't want to fork out all that money if I don't really need one. I am starting to tolerate the RLT a bit better now as well. I think a lot of those herbal teas are an acquired taste...you just have to keep drinking them to get used to them. Lol!

I always drink my RRL with lemon..... Also try drinking iced RRL tea (delicious in the summer)

Well, as you know I am not a fan of the "magic pill" approach and I am telling you that YES, cutting back on sugar and empty carbs and eating more protein and healthy fats actually does make a difference. I am not telling you to go nuts with it, and no, chocolate is not going to kill you (provided that you have improved diet in other substantive ways). YES there is a point to doing the diet. It is WAY more effective then the RRLT and more important than spending money on invasive procedures because even if you do have an adhesion, if your egg quality is in the toilet it is not going to help you get pregnant anyway to have that fixed.

Thanks Atomic. I'm always just soooo hopeless with diets. It is soooo difficult to go GF and I am just not good with which foods are in which food group. We actually eat pretty healthy full meals. We don't own a deep fryer and try to grill meat whenever we cook it. I really believe I need to just eat much more raw fruit and vegetables and that's what I'm going to do. I'm also going to cook myself a bone broth as I've read online that this is very good to improve egg quality. I'm still shocked my AMH has dropped so much in 17 months. From 6.5 to 2.8. I knew it would've dropped but I really didn't expect that much of a drop. Yet I know it's not the be all and end all when others have conceived with AMH levels lower than mine. I also believe I have to start doing more exercise as I get quite sedentary and am a bit of a 'sitter'. Anyway, that's my plan. Atomic - do you think we should continue with SMEP for best chances of conceiving?

You don't have to go gluten free though. Just cut back on sugar, white carbs, eat more protein, more healthy fats (including full fat dairy). It's not difficult once you make up your mind to do it.

Grilling is actually not considered healthy either as the components in the charring process may be unhealthy to sperm quality and overall health.

Yes, please exercise as that also helps correct for things like insulin resistance and helps keep blood sugar lower (better for egg qualtiy)

Yes, please continue with SMEP.

White carbs...as in white bread and pasta? Protein...eggs and chicken? Wholemeal bread in small amounts. Anything I've missed? See, I am really bad with food groups, but am changing.

Yes, white bread, white flour (like cakes and cookies and stuff) and pasta. I'm not saying NEVER eat those things (wholemeal pasta especially is dreadful) but just don't make that your main food group.

Whole meal bread is better than white and keep cookies, cakes, etc to minimum. If you want choc have dark choc

White vs. brown rice is a gray area - a fair deal of evidence indicates white rice is more forgiving than wheat and brown rice may have more phytochemicals in it which may block nutrient absorption, so if you like white rice better, I'd eat white.

Potatoes/sweet potato are good sources of carbs and well tolerated even tho they are "carby".

Protein: Eggs, chicken, fish/shellfish (moderation no more than 1x a week) and regular meat. Also full fat dairy is a protein food.

Thanks Atomic. I am now still without a thermometer so can't BBt in the mornings (puppy destroyed it a few days ago) and we are without a car (it broke down a few nights ago and is going to be a big job so it's still at garage) and it's been pouring with rain and I have been sick with throats and cough thing so hard to walk to shops to buy more OPKs. I woke up this morning at 4am with really bad O pains and had to take panadol and use heat pack to get relief. I wonder why I don't have O pains every cycle? Could it be that the only times I get the pain are when I actually release an egg and the times I don't get the pain I am not releasing an egg? Confusing. I am sure when I was younger I would have this pain every cycle. Anyway, I seem to have more CM this time so maybe the RLT is helping and we got in 2 BDs today (one in afternoon and one this evening). Nothing else to mention, except that I am hating this constant rain and don't like this time of year prior to winter after daylight savings has gone so it's now dark by 6pm when it used to be daylight until 9pm. Oh well...I'll get used to it. Must get back to bed now and get more sleep as it's only 5am.

No, you don't only get O pains when you're releasing an egg. Lots of us (myself included) have quite wicked O pains at times and yet have gotten pregnant in months when we didn't have any!! No one knows why exactly we have O pains sometimes and others not, but because you can get O pains before, during, and after O, they are actually largely unrelated to the egg being released. Example, some months I get O pains that start as early as CD 3-5 and go right on thru 1-2 days after O. They just aren't related to the egg itself in the way people think of it.

You don't need the OPK. You don't need the BBT. Just BD!!

We are also having the rainiest year ever (literally, it's the rainiest year ever). Our road is completely flooded and in order to get to town we have to walk part of the way while my husband drives through a lake!! Sooo tired of it! Hope it dries up for you soon.

I hear you Atomic. It's horrid to get all your washing dry as well. But I have just missed catching up with friends this week. So no car all week and apparently it will cost us around $1,800 to get it fixed (which we don't have that money just lying around so DH thinks he will have to use a credit card and get a weekend job) - so I am feeling really guilty because I am at home every day schooling our kids and not doing any paid work to help out. The kids and I are also sick with horrid throats and coughs. I just feel really guilty and bad that DH is shouldering the responsibility of our finances because I am not yet working and earning money. I have been plannning to do something but have been feeling too sick to look or get started. I wish there was some way I could do something online whilst at home to earn a good amount of money to help out, but there are sooo many spammy things out there. So as for ttc, I am really just winging it this cycle since we are too unwell to walk or ride our bikes to nearest chemist to get a new thermometer and OPKs. Can't be bothered. Plus tomorrow I was meant to take te kids and myself down to my parents place for the weekend so I could attend a friend's book launch tomorrow night (which it now looks like I will miss). Oh well....things could always be worse and I have enjoyed having the kids at home with me. Thanks for reading and sorry for my rambling. Lol!

That's weird. I just posted a comment but it appears to have disappeared. A message came up saying a mod had to approve post before it could be displayed and that was that. I haven't had that message before. Is it something new?

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Originally Posted by 1moregirl

That's weird. I just posted a comment but it appears to have disappeared. A message came up saying a mod had to approve post before it could be displayed and that was that. I haven't had that message before. Is it something new?

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It just happens randomly I think. You'll just have to post again :)

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Originally Posted by cosmosis

It just happens randomly I think. You'll just have to post again :)

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Yes, we don't know why that happens sometimes - we've investigated but the experts can't seem to figure it out either. I can see those posts and when I spot one, I "approve" it but unfortunately I can't see them unless I actually click open the thread itself. So if your post doesn't show up, repost or post something else and when I come across it I'll "approve" it

I'm hoping that your weather improves (and if mine does as well that would be great!)

Thanks. I was wondering if I had clicked 'go advance' instead of the usual 'post quick reply' and that's how it happened. Not to worry. I am feeling so drained today and headache, sore throat an cough. The kids have not been going to sleep at night til almost 11 and I'm thinking maybe it's because we have been a bit housebound due to being sick and the weather and they are not burning off enough energy during the day to tire them out enough to get to sleep earlier. We have now been 5 days without a car as well which sucks. Never mind! I am onto CD18 today and haven't BD the last 2 nights due to feeling so crappy and these kids not wanting to sleep. I have also had the sore nippple pre-O symptom yesterday and today. So will Bd again tonight and tomorrow and see what happens.

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Originally Posted by 1moregirl

so I am feeling really guilty because I am at home every day schooling our kids and not doing any paid work to help out....I wish there was some way I could do something online whilst at home to earn a good amount of money to help out, but there are sooo many spammy things out there.

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Don't sell yourself short 1moregirl.....you *are* helping out financially by homeschooling your children which is basically a private one on one tutoring service!

I suppose you could work and send your children to a fancy private school for thousands of $ per year to achieve the same effect in which case your income would be spent as soon as you earned it to pay for exhorbitant school fees.

Just look at you tutoring 3 children and calculate how much it would cost to hire that job out to someone else....not to mention the cooking, cleaning, laundry serices you provide.

Its not like you are sitting on your butt all day watching soap operas. ;)

Hope you feel better soon! Your BD plan sounds good to me!

Good luck!

Mission complete me thinks for this cycle. We managed to Bd the last 3 nights in a row, even though I've been sick with this wretched cough. Will post a pic of my chart. There are no BBTs recorded from CD 12 onwards because our puppy Jaffa stole my thermometer from my bedside table and destroyed it. I obviously haven't had a car to go out and get another. No OPKs this time either. Today it has now been officially one week that we have been without a car. It's bloody ridiculous and annoying as hell. I'm soooo angry with Kia I could bloody burst. Anyway, it has been nice though being at home in this cold weather with the kids, most of the time. Except our youngest has been driving me nuts. I should've made him go to kinder. He is just soooo naughty. Constantly getting into mischief. Yet he is cute and a Mummy's boy most of the time. I guess it is hard work at times homeschooling as it is quite time consuming and I don't get much time for myself any more. Anyway, enough of my whining. I do apologise. Lol. We will take a night off BD tonight and just go back to ESD or EOD now. Thanks for listening to my ramblings. And wish me luck. How funny it would be if I got a BFP this time after not monitoring anything at all, except CM of course. I calculate if I conceived a sticky one this cycle I would be due in Jan. How nice that would be. Prob my very last chance at a Summer baby. Oh well....what will be will be and after having a school friend just publish her sixth book, I have really been inspired to to get cracking on my own novel....something I have always wanted to do. Have a good week ladies. Xxoo

Oops. Hehehehehe. Forgot to post my chart. Silly me.

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I know it's so frustrating sometimes, isn't it?? Hoping for good news!

Atomic? Does rulide sway? Just went to the doctor today and I have bronchitis so he gave me a prescription for rulide (which I have started today) and I have to take a bit of ventolin also. What a pain! I'm CD 23 today and am sure I have already Oed sometime so am in the 2ww. I have had tremendously sore boobs (they even hurt when I move, without touching them) - but I am trying not to read into any symptoms as I have been down that road before and been bitterly disappointed. The only other time we did a really good attempt at SMEP was back in January. I am def going to use OPKs next cycle, just so I know I've done my best to pinpoint O and time BD. Anyone know if rulide sways? Thanks.

We believe most medicines tend to sway pink, but of course they have not all been investigated so all that is very theoretical.

I hope you're feeling better soon!

If you caught the egg already the medicine will have no effect.

If not, by the time next O comes around, it will be well out of your system.

I would only be concerned if you were on it thru O.

Just got this....BFN.....or NO as it says. I'm sure it's accurate as I would know by now. Just seems impossible that this will happen for me so I don't know why I even bother continuing with trying or clinging to any slightest hope. The rest of my eggs must just be completely shitty...if I am ovulating at all. I suppose BBTing and OPKs would help. Maybe the SMEP thing is too much? Like BD overkill? I don't know. It just sucks really!

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And this is pic of my finished cycle. :,( Any ideas or advice for next time Atomic? Maybe I should up the ubiquinol to 200mg?

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