Newbie's *pink* pink dreams

Hi, I'm new to this site. I have two boys and lost my identical twin girls born at 28 weeks. It was a very complicated pregnancy with no clear answers. We did what we could, but lost one during birth and my other girl passed away a week later...
It was about 9 months ago. I'm ready to try again and, of course, both I and my husband long for a girl (or two :)) I only recently learned about swaying "atomic way" unfortunately, but I still want to try in the nearest days.
I did lose 5 kgs in the last two months (previous babies weight), eat mostly vegetarian 3 times a day, no exercise, skipping breakfast often, no alcohol or coffee. I think of trying one attempt on opk with modified FR (once empty release) and actual one attempt during an hour, and probably J & D after 5 minutes. I know it sounds silly, but are my chances more than 50%? :) I just for several reasons planned to start this month long ago, so I don't want to delay the start. Also I doubt I can strictly follow diet (count calories, choose thoroughly what to eat, etc.), also delaying any more will make more anxious and stressed. But if I won't get pg this month, I may add coffee (from what I've learned from this site past few days). Hmm, I'm not sure about other things.
In any case, atomic, you rock! These past several days you keep amazing me with your essays, detailed answers, objective and broad thinking and helpful and friendly treatment. Oh also, I fall in love with your lovely girl's smile and kind of associate her with you - clever, beautiful, mischievous and sunny ;)

Oh gosh I'm so sorry to hear that - ID twins are such challenging pregnancies. I don't even have the words - so sorry.

I can't speak to any individual's chances, I can only say the success rates for each tactic overall. (well, I could, but I'd be making that up and I don't like to give false info to people)

One attempt has gotten a pretty consistent 65-70% success rate and J and D seems to add about 3-5% onto that. So just those two things can really boost chances. Vegetarian diet is also good success for us (albeit with a smaller sample size) and has been 75% range - this may be slightly higher than one might reasonably expect but it has been what we've gotten over time with vegetarian diets.

So I think you're off to a great start. Please let me know if I can help in any way - I'd love to see you get a happy ending. Thanks so much for your kind words. :)

Thank you so much for reply. You are really wonderful, so thoughtful, caring and helpful!
Do you think my strategy (one empty release and one actual attempt in one hour and J&D in 5 min) will decrease possibility of getting pregnant significantly? Are there other tricks, which may increase (or at least not decrease) pink chances, but at the same time not decrease pg chances significantly? Like hot bath, legs up, maybe some drinks right before attempt, etc.
Just some information that may be helpful; My husband is 33, I'm 38, BD average in recent months is 3 times per week. It got me 2-3 cycles of several times BD during fertile window to get pregnant with my boys (at 34 and 36 years old and BF), and one accidental condom break to conceive my girls (at 37 and BF). So one-attempt so far is so true for me. Also I gained weight before concieving my first DS and didn't lose much weight (lots of weight gained during and after 1st pregnancy) before concieving 2nd DS, and just started to lose some weight with my DDs. So hope this time it also will be consistent with your data. I have lots of hope and feith in your suggestions (also based on my own experience) :) But I did some "bad" things probably read from IG site some time ago, like I was taking prenatals and Ca and vitamin C about 2-3 weeks and dropped a few days ago, when started reading your recommendations. Plus I take lots of folic acid hoping for twins :(
Anyway, I'm eager to prove you right soon once again :)

Yes, it will decrease odds of pregnancy but may be more pink friendly.

Unfortunately, everything that seems to sway pink does cut odds of conception. Hot bath for sure cuts odds of pregnancy. Legs up would improve odds of conceiving but probably sways blue.

Alcohol has been effective as a sway tactic but we don't know if this needs to be just a few drinks right before attempt or an ongoing pattern of 1-2 drinks per day. Probably the latter, as we have found that dietary elements seem to work best over time. Can't hurt to try though.

Since you've just dropped the nutrients, do me a solid and take a dose today, and then another in a few more days, and then one more after that. I don't like anyone just dropping nutrients cold turkey as it may not be great for your overall health to do that. :)

Thanks a lot for answers and care!
Well, first cycle of TTC didn't work. It was one release and one actual attempt in less than two hours, and J&D in 6-7 min (got carried away chatting with DH :)) DH haven't slept properly for a week and was stressed out at work. In the middle of doing this strategy I thought it won't work, I will hardly concieve, but sticked to it. And although during 2ww for a about a week I was almost sure it did (ah, those symptoms), but it didn't. Good news: I drink a cup of coffee every day (I drank only one or two cups my entire life), and I am away from vitamins.
So what's next, what you would suggest;
-to try exactly the same for another cycle (2 releases in 1-2 hours + J&D in 5-10 min)
-same except J&D in 10-15 min,
-just one attempt and J&D in 5 minutes (in this case what we should do prior to one attempt if abstain and FR is out?)
-???
P.S. Oh, just remembered, DH had hot shower before actual attempt, definitely will skip this now.

Well, at the least you won't regret not having tried it.

The first thing I'd personally ditch is the additional release. But please understand, this is a crystal ball question, I simply do not have the body of data that I would need to be able to compare those things. I have had so few people doing them that I can't point to any group of people and see if it worked for them or not.

If you aren't doing abstain or FR (and I wouldn't either) you can either have him do regular release every 2-4 days or else just let him "do what he does". Then keep the one attempt.

So, 2nd round didn't work as well. We BD 24 hours after positive opk (I wanted to get as dark or darker line, but it turned out muuch lighter the next day). J&D in 10 min. Probably I was out even before trying?
The 3rd round won't work either, since DH won't be around for a month. We can BD only on CD6/7, and I got positive op on CD11 last two months. No chances here, right?
Hopefully DH will be just in time for the 4th round and the first anniversary of giving birth and loosing our girls :(
Past few months were bearable because of constant thoughts of swaying/concieving/waiting/hoping. This month will be very difficult in all meanings.
I already started to cheat a lot (sweets, bread, etc.). I wanted a summer baby and not be pregnant during summer, well, I was kind of sure I'll become pregnant right away (actually it's the first time I ttc with such dedication :)) Anyway I'd like to think my girl(s) is(are) not "cooked"/ready yet. Reading forums help me to have positive attitude. Thank you all.

Yes, I suspect that may have been the case. When in doubt, BD, because you can conceive with attempt too soon, but not too late.

Yes that's exactly the right mindset - it's just not the time yet. Thinking of you. :heart:

So the 3rd cycle of ttc (the first one with 2.5 Femara) with one attempt at pos opk, and J&D in 10-15 min was unsuccessful. We've also BD 4 days after just in case.
I've read on the other thread, that if the first cycle with Clomid and one attempt doesn't work, more attempts should be added, is it the same for Femara?
I would still prefer "one-attemptish" approach, since the first two cycles before taking Femara were with reduced chances (compressed release, hot bath) and not good timing (might have missed ovulation), so on one side I would still prefer "one-attemptish" approach, but I can take Femara only 3 cycles in a row, right?
Last 4 months I had pos opk on cd11, supposedly I'll have the same or close this time, when it's best to have other attempts? And I guess no more J&D? The difference this month while taking Femara was a bit longer luteal phase (my cycle was 25-27 last year, and this time it was 28 and was a bit heavier than previous several ones at least).
Thank you for patience reading this :)

I would BD E4D from when AF ends until AF comes, just in case ovulation may be delayed. If you want, you can have another attempt when you get your positive opk, and then resume E4D the rest of your cycle.

🤞🏻for you!


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Thank you so much, XXforhubby. I couldn't do past month e4d since my husband was out of town and came back right for one attempt at pos opk. I do have suspicion that I may get pos opk later than the actual surge, on the other hand I got surprizing 28 days cycle past month and pos opk at cd11.
Could you please clarify, I'm still confused what to do and how to count days of attempts. So in any case, e4d is counted as one attempt during fertile window, not 2, right? And if we add attempt on pos opk, then it is only 2 attempts, not 3, right? So Af ends cd5, if we BD cd6, cd10, cd14, this is e4d, but if we add attempt, let's say on cd11 (most likely day of pos opk), should I continue cd15, or still the same cd14? I guess my worry and question is is it OK to BD two days in a row (or in best case BD every other day 3 times during fertile window) for a girl sway and may I end up with 3 attempts in a fertile window?

I wouldn’t do every other day- this sways blue. At most with E4D and another at positive opk, you would have 2 attempts in your fertile window. E4D alone will give you 1 attempt in your fertile window. The spacing goes like this: attempt on Monday, Thursday, Sunday, etc. I would keep this up all cycle long or until at least CD22. If you want the best for pink, then just do E4D. If you want the best odds of conception, then do E4D with another attempt at positive opk. Whichever you choose, keep doing E4D all cycle long or until at least CD22.


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[emoji254]Thank you Gender Dreaming for our precious little girl![emoji254]

Oops, I got e4d wrong again; I thought it should be like Monday, Friday, Tuesday, i.e. 4 full days in between. Thanks! So e3d is basically every other day then?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by sunstars

Oops, I got e4d wrong again; I thought it should be like Monday, Friday, Tuesday, i.e. 4 full days in between. Thanks! So e3d is basically every other day then?

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Yes. Some people opt to BD like you mentioned but most do it the way I’ve outlined for you. Whichever you decide is fine.


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[emoji178]10/2017[emoji178]

[emoji254]Thank you Gender Dreaming for our precious little girl![emoji254]

Yes, same for Femara.

No more J and D.

What I'd prob. do is just take a month off of Femara after 3 months and still try since it still sways pink in that month off.

:agree: totally with XX in that you need to keep going with e4d after O. not just one time, repeatedly to be sure. O can come even a week or ten days late on Clomid

Ok, thank you XX and Atomic, this cycle I'll do E4D like XX outlined. Once you helped me to decide I feel very confident and not stressed out. Thanks again! Hopefully I won't have to decide next month ;) The problem is that I've lost 22 pounds of previous pregnancies' weight past few months, but now for last few weeks my weight is stable (goes up and down for a pound). I could have lost a few more pounds to become my prepregnancies weight, but it's not happening so far.

don't worry, the weight loss has not really been at all predictive of whose sways will succeed and whose won't.

Ok, so finally light "bfp" 1-2 days before period. I was on 3rd month of Femara, and 5th cycle of ttc.
We tried e4d+one attempt this cycle. I believe I got +opk at night of cd12. We BD on cd10, cd13 (in the morning), and cd14 (at night, 36 hours after previous attempt). Hopefully this is not too blue-friendly. I'll wait for a few days, test again and add my sway.
I have a question, atomic, I was at doctor's today because of severe inflammation of my eyes, she prescribed antibiotic drops for a couple of days (ciprofloxacin), I asked I have a slight chance of being pregnant, she said to push below the corner of the eye, so the drug will mainly stay locally. I used it once, and then tested just in case and it's late to call her, and now it will be weekend, what do you think, should I better stop and wait for Monday, or it can't really cause harm to the fetus? It is around 12 dpo for me. Sorry for asking, but you are such a big storage of knowledge, so I thought I better ask you. Thank you so much!

It's a class C so the safety is not known. But honestly, it's eye cream, not that much is going to get absorbed, and the stage of pregnancy you're at, the baby isn't sharing your blood supply anyway.

I would use it personally BUT I am concerned about your eyes. Have they given you any diagnosis other than "inflammation"? The reason I ask is because all last year I had something going on with my eyes being really dry/inflamed and one of them had a swollen tear duct, and they kept putting me off and gave me antibiotic cream, etc. Well, it turned out I have an autoimmune disease called Sjogren's Syndrome. It's really common among women and they are always misdiagnosing it so if you keep having issues with the inflammation, I'd go back in and ask for a blood test for autoimmune disorders. You can't always be diagnosed by the blood tests so be sure and mention Sjogren's right to them to get them thinking along those lines.

I got faint lines few days in a row, and today I started bleeding, so I guess it was a chemical pregnancy.

I shouldn't take 4 cycles of Femara in a row, right? I had 3 cycles with Femara already. And if I am to take a break, for how long? When I can start taking Femara again?

I did e4d + one attempt last cycle. I should continue with it, right? Or will it be too difficult to pinpoint surge after m/c, and I better not bother with opks and just go e4d?

As for eye infection, thanks for information, and I hope you feel better now, once you know the reason. The doctor says it's due to adenovirus and bacterial infection as a consequence of it. I wonder if I had m/c due to the virus too, or it's just a coincidence.
Thank you again for everything!

Well, even just up till last year they used to let people take it for 6 months. Something has shifted the past year and now they're saying 3. I think this is a little overly conservative but it's fine to take a month off now if you'd liek. Just one cycle. And i"d still have you try with that cycle since it stays in your system and can still sway pink.

Oh good I'm glad they know the reason for the eye inflammation. We will probably never know the reason for the loss, I wish they could tell us why these things happen but most of the time we don't know.

If you keep going with the Femara do e4d plus one, if you skip the Femara I'd just do e4d.

Another unsuccessful cycle. Oh, I'm really getting impatient, sad and worried, I am 39 and really didn't expect ttc to take so long (more than 6 months now), since previous 3 times it took 1-3 cycles.
Overall we tried one attempt for 3 cycles, e4d (every 72 hours) for 2 cycles, e4d+one attempt for 1 cycle (ended with chemical pregnancy).
I'll do e4d plus one attempt this month and start taking Femara again, but I wonder if there anything wrong and do we need complete check-up with DH now, or we should just wait more.

If DH is willing to be checked, a handful of times when people were struggling it was due to a low sperm count. If he's not willing we could try adding in fertility vitamins for him, sometimes these help (but may sway blue)

DH is 34 actually, does this change things? Probably I should be checked first, right? My standard gynecological check-up half a year ago revealed no problems.

No, it doesn't make any difference, a man can have male factor infertilty at any age.

Standard checkups don't reveal anything, it has to be fertilty based. I do want you to be VERY prepared for the appointment, they are often exceedingly discouraging about chances of pregnancy for women over 35 and will say things that you may not want to hear and are very likely not true anyway. Remember, you were not pulling out all the stops to get pregnant at first and so you really haven't been trying trying as long as you think (altho it's fine to say that you have been to the doctors.)

My concern is that you're going to go in there, get told all kinds of upsetting stuff, be scared silly, and then end up right back here again anyway still trying. That's what has happened with virtually everyone that has gone to the doctor. The doctors honestly don't have that much to offer most of us - it's either IVF or keep trying. They can sometimes rule out causes of recurrent miscarriages, though. So if you can be at peace with that, then by all means go in, but if that's only going to bum you out, just know that you haven't even really yet begun to try - we still have lots of things to try that will most likely eventually end at BFP.

Thank you so much, yes, I'm afraid of what you said, and also I am very disappointed in doctors right now, plus it's gonna cost lots of money, time, and nerves, so I'm really reluctant, but there is a small fear that if there is a real problem, I may be losing time. On the other hand, from my experience, if doctors learn that you already have children, they don't really care that much if you will have more. Even many of my relatives think I better stop and be happy with what I have. I conceived naturally and easily my first at 34, then 35 and 37 (modi twins, whom I lost due to complicated pregnancy and premature labor at 28 weeks).
Anyway, I needed reassurance that it's not that crazy idea to wait some more before handling myself to doctors. I think I'm going to wait at least 3 more cycles. The first two cycles I'll do e4d+one attempt. Then probably I should add more attempts. I was on one month break of Femara after taking it for 3 months, so I'll start taking it again. I am pretty loose on diet past month, although never was really counting anything. I did loose 10kg in first few months and don't change much in weight for several months now. I drink 1-2 cups of coffee (never had coffee before swaying), only recently started to drink small amount of alcohol. I did reduce diary in past year or two (not intentionally), mainly have cheese, and I kind of have nagging feeling that I should have some. I eat eggs and some (usually white) meet a few times per week.
I'll be happy to hear what you would recommend to change or do. Thanks again for your time, care and thoughts.

:agree: That sounds like a solid plan to me - back on Femara, another month on e4d plus one, and then we'll go to Smep.

I would def. be sure you're doing the full fat dairy every day. Cheese is ok if you like it, or you can have milk or yogurt or even whipped cream and butter! You just may need a little more fat.

also apologies if I already mentioned this, but you're not doing shallow release, are you?? I find that to be something that has really prevented conception and it is not proven to help anyway, so if you were, I'd let that go. Try laying down for 15 minutes and spend part of that time on your tummy.

Not only I didn't get pregnant, but my af today started first thing in the morning, and since I was swaying it was starting late in the afternoon or evening. I did get loose with diet and may have gained back couple of pounds.
We never did shallow release, and previous 3-4 months each time I lied down at least for an hour up to overnight (part of the time on my stomach).
So the 4th round of Femara and e4d+1 didn't work, although I must say I was sick (cold/flue) again around possible implantation times. Should we do the same for this coming cycle? The one previous time when we did e4d+1 I got bfp, but ended with chemical.

Sunstars I'm sorry af arrived! At least we can almost be femara cycle buddies this month. I'm on cd5 today. And maybe af arriving first thing in the morning doesn't necessarily mean that you got more set for a boy. Since being on LE diet for some months my af arrives first thing in the morning as well. So early that I have to wear a tampon that night because otherwise I would be afraid of bleeding into the bed. This is a completely new pattern for me so I decided to see it in a way "different is good" as af arrived during day time when I got my boys, although it's not what most other swayer's describe.

Good luck for this coming cycle! [emoji173]️

6c8b58 Ovulation charts on FertilityFriend.com

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I would still do e4d plus one. I would not want to go to SMEP yet since that may be more blue friendly than e4d plus one.

You are starting e4d after AF ends, and continuing on even after you think you've ovulated, right??? e4d needs to go on and on for the whole month to be effective. Otherwise you can still end up missing O!

Thank you so much for quick reply! Yeah, I'm, not ready to give up everything "pink" yet. I'm just puzzled why it is taking so long to get pregnant this time, could it be just bad luck each time interfering (bad timing, sicknesses, etc.) or some really big problem arisen these past two years. My cycles now are more predictive than they ever were, 25-27 days, with pos opk at cd 11-12.
I do continue e4d way after positive opk, and then close to the end of the cycle just random bd, which is more frequent than e4d.

Yes it may just be bad luck, but try laying down after BD for part of the time on your tummy in addition to on your back if you aren't already. That has seemed to help some of us conceive when we hadn't for a while.

I'm pregnant, Atomic! So far confirmed by bfps.
Thank you so much for your encouragement, besides everything else :)
To say the truth, I wasn't good neither at diet or BD pattern this month. I did skipped breakfast, but still had mostly 3 meals, had 2 cups of coffee, used a little bit of alcohol, put on at least 2 kg for past few months, took Femara. As for BD pattern, I was going to do e4d +1 again, but somehow I messed up both with opks and BDs, usually I had +opk on cd11-cd12. So we BD cd7, cd9, cd11, cd13, cd15, I hope that the last two BDs doesn't count, so I kind of had two real attempts.
Now I'm trying to find new doctors and hospital, and prepare myself for another little baby, but still hoping very much for a girl.

Congrats on your pregnancy

good luck and pink dust headed your way!

Unfortunately I miscarried at 9/3 weeks, a week ago on ultrasound everything was fine, I started bleeding and ultrasound showed large hematoma and "cervical weakness", doctors put some efforts in form of giving me various medicine, but eventually I miscarried and had D&C done. That was two days ago. Today I'm surprisingly pretty determined and hopeful and in a mood to "keep fighting". I started the day with skipping breakfast and drinking coffee.
Here doctors say to wait for min 3-7 cycles, have everything checked/tested, get treated (they mainly think it's possible infections, which I think is not my case), before trying. I'm willing to wait for the next cycle, mainly to let the possible scars after D&C to heal and have some time to be back to LE diet (I was feeling pretty hungry while pregnant, so really messed up with everything). When they say that miscarriage also sways girl, do they mean before AF comes or next cycle after AF? I'm a bit worried about healing to start that early, am I right?
I was taking Femara (for swaying initially), but ended up taking for 5 cycles (one chemical and a month pause after that). Can I take it again next month, or it will be too much?
I got pregnant this last time unintentionally doing something close to EOD (I'm pretty sure it was three BDs before ovulaton, and just 2 actual attempts. Previously I got pregnant doing e4d+1, when I had chemical). So I assume I should keep doing e4d+1, or at least BD every 48-72 hours after cd7 (usually I ovulated at cd11-12).
I wanted to update you and hear you advises on how to proceed further.
Thank you so much for your understanding and patience and time!

Oh no I'm so sorry.

Waiting 7 cycles is unheard of. Even 3 is overly conservative unless they know something I don't. I suspect the "cervical weakness" was because your body was pulling the plug on the pregnancy due to the hematoma, but even if it was legit, they can easily do a cerclage to fix that.

I would absolutely wait at least one cycle and possibly 2. Don't worry about the effect on the sway, you need to be sure you're healed.

Any pregnancy and loss will tax your system for at least 1-2 months or even longer after having it. We don't know how long losses will tend to sway pink, just don't have that data available

WEre you taking any high doses of blood thinners? Cranberry, aspirin, fish oil/DHA/flaxseed/EPO, bromelian, anything else that you can think of?

Femara is fine to take again but I really do want you to wait at least 1 and preferably 2 cycles. If your cycle takes a while to come back you can wait one, but if it happens boom, boom then do wait 2.

Thank you so much for quick response!
I actually was wondering if I should have taken blood thinners, some doctors said I should, and some said I don't need to (I had pretty bad varicose veins which progressed with every pregnancy and after the premature labor with twins in one day I developed thrombi and had surgery to remove them and some veins, so the doctor who did the surgery is sure the problem is not my blood, but bad varicose veins I had). Anyway, I just looked up my prenatal vitamins, so I was taking about 170 mg of DHA every day. And now as I look more carefully, it turnes out I decreased intake of folic acid from 2 mg to 1.3 mg per day. Actually I kind of felt weird about these vitamins during last two pregnancies, can't explain why. I won't take them next time.
Also usually during pregnancies I was drinking at least 2 L of water, and this time I didn't.
Also do you think lifting my boys (13-16 kg) for a minute, sex, or some kind of work at home can lead to hematoma?
The other thing I can think of is I started to wear suggested support stockings after good US scan, could it have pressed my belly somehow... Ah, just trying to find a reason behind all this and maybe avoid it next time.

Most of the time things just happen. It's nothing you did or didn't do, but just bad luck. The reason I ask is simply because I"ve seen some people who had hematomas who were taking large amounts of blood thinners and not because I thought you had done anything to cause it. We all did things like lift our little ones and I've never drunk that much water in any pregnancy. It just happens sometimes.

You know, some doctors here are sure one should avoid sex, heavy lifting, active activities, etc. and make women think it's their fault. I brushed it off of course during all my pregnancies, but now started to wonder maybe somehow I became one of those "high-risk" and "fragile" ones :) It's just the fact that a week ago at 8/2 everything was perfect (heartbeat, sizes, placenta, etc.) and then it took such a dramatic turn make me think more about possible contributions.