What would you say is the most important thing in the diet to eat?
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What would you say is the most important thing in the diet to eat?
Dairy is a worse way to get calcium than leafy green vegetables. But those high calcium/magnesium supplements given other studies seemed to sway pink? Perhaps there is a protein/fat connection. I get where you're going with Trivers Willard, but I still think there is chemistry you can change and it's not all about JUST starving nutrients?
ok I'm de-lurking because this is very interesting :) I also conceived my boys with a really high dairy diet and DD1 while eating virtually no dairy. However the baby I'm pg with now is totally unexpected DD2 and I was also eating a lot of dairy and very well-nourished... anyways...
I find this really interesting to think about and wonder about. But from a historical perspective, when humans did start keeping dairy animals it didn't matter that they had no refrigeration. Cheese and fermented dairy were ways to preserve dairy so it could be eaten longer. Plus a cow can be milked every day several months of the year. Just because yogurt is relatively new to our culture it doesn't mean it's "new" everywhere - yogurt and kefir are actually old methods of preserving milk just like cheese is, and have been around in other cultures for a long time.
Anyways, I like healthy babies so even if we do sway again (we will sway blue) I will continue to use full-fat dairy. It's the easiest protein/fat source for me to get and protein and fat = healthy babies :)
Would love to see more info on this as it's discussed further :D
Hi Skrimpy.
Maybe it depends where you get calcium from- dairy is just one source. And what does dairy have and do for the body? Mamer's running stuff brought me to this article about Vitamin D and Tetosterone levels-
Vitamin D - a Secret Testosterone Booster? Study Finds Potent Hormonal Benefits
Published by Brian Willett - Featured Contributor on Associated Content in Health & Wellness
Many matters surrounding the quest for lean mass gain or body fat loss can be quite difficult to understand. Does nutrient timing really matter? How much does the thermic effect of food actually influence weight loss?
Is the Glycemic Index (GI) completely irrelevant? These questions and many others plague the athletic endeavors of even the most intelligent, well-informed members of the fitness community. Thankfully, though, not everything is as complicated as those matters. One established fact is that testosterone is definitely a good thing when looking to increase muscle size and strength. The tricky part, though, is how to maximize one's levels of testosterone in a safe and legal manner.
And while there are many expensive products on the market that claim to boost testosterone, recent research has uncovered a powerful new supplement that is both inexpensive and effective. If that were not enough, the supplement is safe as well. The most surprising part - it may already be in your cabinet. So what is this mysterious supplement? Vitamin D.
Sound too good to be true? It's not. New research from the journal Clinical Endocrinology found that, in their sample of nearly 2300 men, there was a significant positive correlation between Vitamin D levels and testosterone levels. But it wasn't just that these men had more testosterone in their bodies - the group that had the highest levels of Vitamin D had more free, or biologically active, testosterone. This means the hormone could be used by the body for muscle building.
In addition, higher levels of Vitamin D prompted lower concentrations of sex hormone-binding globulin (SHBG). This is important because SHBG binds to testosterone and makes it biologically inactive - in other words, not useful for mass gain (1).
While this study, and the realization that Vitamin D directly influenced testosterone, is new, the connection has been demonstrated in prior research. While the scientists did not necessarily understand the causation, a 1938 study found that athletic performance was enhanced with UV exposure. In fact, the rate of progression the UV-exposed group was 7.4 percent, compared to the 1.7 percent progression of the control group (2). This is because Vitamin D, also known as the "sunshine vitamin," is present in sunlight and ultra-violet rays.
However, most people, especially in the northwest, do not get enough Vitamin D due to low levels of sunlight. Because of this, strong supplementation of Vitamin D would be needed to reap the testosterone-boosting rewards. Thankfully, Vitamin D supplements are inexpensive and readily available.
So, perhaps our source of calcium is what matters and the Vitamin D content is upping everyone's testosterone levels without even knowing it?
That a great point nuthinbutpink. Many dairy sources include extra vit d for the calcium absorbtion and another reason to avoid dairy.
Hmm, this is interesting... I conceived two of my boys while drinking Vit D fortified milk and living in the Southeast. I conceived my third boy while drinking milk from a local dairy - I think it was fortified but not sure... and just after moving to northern MI. I conceived this baby, a DD, while living here in northern MI and drinking milk that is *NOT* fortified (it's raw milk from an Amish dairy). But we did take Vit. D supplements all last winter... had stopped somewhat by the summer when the babe was conceived, though. DH, though, has never been a big milk drinker, so he wasn't getting a lot of D from fortified milk before. He did take the Vit D supplement for awhile, but found it caused his arthritis to flare up, so he'd stopped quite awhile before we conceived our current pg.
It's interesting. My Vit D titers were pretty good last winter but I didn't have them tested in the summer before this baby was conceived.
I agree about cheese, yogurt, kefir, etc (not trying to seem ethnocentric there at all). My point is, there is very little difference in gender ratio in cultures who ate these foods and cultures who didn't. IF calcium were a magic bullet, as in, eat X milligrams of calcium and you WILL get a baby girl, cultures who ate a high-dairy diet seem like they should have more daughters, even if it's only by a percentage point or two. Instead, it's the other way around and cultures who DON'T traditionally eat a lot of dairy actually have more daughters than those cultures that do. Does not compute.Quote:
Originally Posted by skrimpy
That's very interesting Skrimpy - does your husband have RA? Men with RA are more likely than the general population to carry a gene known as HLA-B15 that has been correlated with lower testosterone levels. http://muse.jhu.edu/journals/human_b....2astolfi.html (dry reading there but just so you know I'm not pulling that data out of my rear end)Quote:
Originally Posted by skrimpy
One thing we have to keep in mind when analyzing any one factor (calcium intake, testosterone, etc) is that there are two parties both bringing dozens if not hundreds of factors to the table, some of which we will never even be aware of.
I agree - there is so much to go on. Outside of PGD I have to just trust that in the end it's up to God. But I like knowing I can at least try to sway the odds :p I am having a lot of GD with getting another DD (really hard time with my mom growing up... girls are scary :/ ) Since we want a big family I'd like to sway blue next time... as least know I've tried :)Quote:
Originally Posted by atomic sagebrush
DH has osteoarthritis. We've never had his testosterone levels checked but judging by his very, very healthy sex drive I would say it's OK :p The only big changes in DH's diet since we conceived a son is a big drop in carbohydrates to work on weight loss... maybe that influenced for a DD this time, but like you said, there are so many variables.
I should mention that when I conceived DD1, I was eating very little dairy and had a mostly vegetarian diet. I did drink soymilk at that time, which was probably fortified with calcium and vit. D. I conceived her while in college in the sunny southwest so my vit. D levels were probably good... my overall nutrition was really poor compared to what it was with the boys and this DD2 though. I have no idea what kind of a diet her bio-dad was eating. I could probably drive myself crazy with all the anecdotal factors and such but I wanted to mention for the calcium/vit D discussion in this thread.
apparently calcium helps produce progesterone, which helps oppose excess estrogen. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1158122/ (would love to read the whole study) all swaying girl factors. Dairy adds vit d to the equation and messes this up. In fact, I just read cheese decreases progesterone production.
Atomic0 maybe it was the DAIRY not the calcium that meddled with your girtl sway?
From wikipedia:
Acrosome reaction: During fertilization, a sperm must first fuse with and then penetrate the female egg in order to fertilize it. Fusing to the egg usually causes little problem, whereas penetrating through the egg's hard shell can present more of a problem to the sperm. Therefore sperm cells go through a process known as the acrosome reaction which is the reaction that occurs in the acrosome of the sperm as it approaches the egg. The acrosome is a cap-like structure over the anterior half of the sperm's head.
As the sperm approaches the zona pellucida of the egg, which is necessary for initiating the acrosome reaction, the membrane surrounding the acrosome fuses with the plasma membrane of the sperm, exposing the contents of the acrosome. The contents include surface antigens and numerous enzymes which are responsible for breaking through the egg's tough coating and allowing fertilization to occur.
so with that in mind this is from some ion research website:
"Progesterone elicits a rapid, transient calcium influx in sperm that is a prerequisite for the progesterone-induced acrosome reaction."
Maybe there is something about Y sperm being able to permeate an egg better given a calcium/progesterone deficiency? I thought progesterone was all about supporting pregnancy, but if its effects are on the process of sperm meeting egg this is very interesting, since we know high progesterone sways girl, calcium helps increase progesterone, and calcium is needed to charge sperm to permeate an egg. Its also needed FROM the egg- since the Zona Pellucida is responsible for initiating the acrosome reaction. Evidnce that calcium primes an egg for a certain KIND of sperm somehow?
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/arti...00380-0107.pdfQuote:
Originally Posted by lindi
you rock!
This was interesting from the article: Complete omission of Mg2+ also suppressed
progesterone production significantly (P <0.01)
(Table 2). However, the effects of Ca2+ omission
could not be superseded by the addition of physiological
concentrations of Mg2+. Maximal progesterone
production required the presence of both
bivalent cations.
calcium + magnesium needed for progesterone within ovary. Progesterone is conversely needed for the sperm to be charged ionically (calcium again) to fertilize the egg. Progesterone sways girl, but does anybody know HOW progesterone sways?
I am not aware of progesterone swaying pink. An additional source of progesterone is milk products. They contain much progesterone because on dairy farms cows are milked during pregnancy, when the progesterone content of the milk is high. After consumption of milk products the level of bioavailable progesterone goes up. That brings you back to Vitamin D though and an increase in testosterone.
except if you consume raw plain milk from a grass-fed cow? Thats what I give my son- it had no added vit d. I read on the *other* site that progesterone sways girl?
I cannot find anything scientific to back that claim up. The funny thing is between age 35 and 50, there is a 35% drop in estrogen, and a 75% reduction in progesterone occurring simultaneously. I do know that it is a fact that "older" women have more girls, so it would seem that the opposite would be the case.Quote:
Originally Posted by lindi
Yes, the "other site" claims high estrogen/high testosterone sways blue, high prog. sways pink. I've read pretty compelling evidence for testosterone, some less compelling evidence for estrogen, and very little evidence for progesterone. The interesting thing is that they're all manufactured from the same materials in your body so to me it seems more likely that your body is "deciding" how much of them to make based on cues from the environment, rather than that you're making your body have higher or lower levels. (hope that makes sense???)
Anyway, the second part of this essay is posted here http://genderdreaming.com/forum/show...nundrum-part-2
Ok, haven't read the rest of your essay- But if estrogen creates CM, that sways pink. So that makes sense with high estrogen. testosterone makes sense too. progesterone helps oppose excess estrogen- that was the basis of me being prescribed progesterone birth control pills to "balance" my unbalanced hormones- the basis of why BCPs work for PCOS. If you could increase progesterone, it would help oppose estrogen, lowering CM which would sway girl.
Nuthinbutpink- hmm...but maybe those drops in prog and estrogen don't matter with the simultaneous drop in testosterone?
I find it interesting that calcium produces progesterone, and the high calcium diet was shown in studies to sway girl. Those women MUST have had higher progesterone than before the diet then, right?
This is all so complicated! The best evidence is about the testosterone, right? I am making this my focus right now since it takes the longest to change anyways!
As far as I am aware, this is a big reason. Progesterone dries CM or makes what is there creamy and thicker which makes it an environment that the girl sperm are more likely to survive and effectively swim through. My thought is that the reason is sways is mainly because of the effect progesterone has on CM and because estrogen and testosterone are more hand in hand hormones and can convert whereas estrogen and progesterone are inversely related.Quote:
Originally Posted by lindi
Great. Do you have any thoughts on all of that ion stuff at the level of sperm meeting the egg? I know ions are big thing potentially for swaying, and it was interesting that calcium and progesterone are needed for the ionic reactions necessary for egg and sperm to fuse. Maybe extra calcium/progesterone help the x sperms permeate the egg faster somehow? Is this even possible?Quote:
Originally Posted by Viene
I found this summary of a study that makes me think the place sperm wait and mature in a woman's body can influence x sperm over y if the woman's body would have the right chemical make-up to effect the sialic acid on the sperm- or to attract one kind of sperm over another for maturation- the sialic acid is what differs on the surface of x and y sperm, (I think this is how sperm are sorted, by like, microsort, right?) making one charged negatively and one charged positively:
After insemination in mammals, sperm move to a storage reservoir in the oviduct and bind to the epithelial cells. This appears to be critical for sperm maturation to achieve fertilization. The adhesion of sperm to these cells may be mediated by sialic acid-containing sugars on proteins (glycoproteins). These experiments determine whether or not the sialic acid that binds sperm, found in the lower oviduct, has functional importance in sperm adhesion and in forming the reservoir. To accomplish this aim, oviducts from slaughtered female pigs were extracted. In these experiments, neuraminidase was used to remove the sialic acid residues from the oviductal epithelial cells to see if sperm still bind to the oviduct. The results have shown lower sperm-binding, after removal of sialic acid. Cells incubated with neuraminidase reduced sperm binding by 52% of sperm bound compared to the control without neuraminidase. After studying this component of sperm storage we found that sialic acid has a role in the sperm binding to the oviduct. These findings will contribute to increased knowledge about how this sugar can bind cells and will help to explain how the oviduct can store sperm to promote fertilization.
and also this:
A Ca2+-dependent sialic acid-binding protein (SABP) of
human endometrium, which specifically bound to human
sperm head plasma membrane in vitro, was found to
increase the percentage motility and acrosome-reacted
pattern of uncapacitated spermatozoa. The protein was
synthesized in the endometrium and secreted into the
uterine fluid. This intra-uterine factor, which is apparently
advantageous in vitro in inducing human sperm capacitation,
may play a significant role in promoting the postrelease
maturation of ejaculated spermatozoa by enhancing
45Ca uptake into spermatozoa by a pathway which is
insensitive to calcium-channel blockers. However, the 45Ca
uptake could be enhanced on exposure to the divalent
cation ionophore A23187 and inhibited in the presence of
the calmodulin inhibitor trifluoperazine. The SABP also
induces an increase in intracellular Ca2' in spermatozoa,
as seen by FURA-2 AM studies. Furthermore, overlay
studies show human SABP to be a Ca2+-binding protein.
The data presented here suggest that SABP induces invitro
sperm capacitation and the subsequent acrosome
reaction by increasing intracellular Ca2+ concentration.
Key words: acrosome reaction/calcium/human spermatozoa/
Maybe calcium helps specifically in the uterine fluids in strengthening sperm and maturing x sperm even more than y sperm? The x sperm are negatively charged , attracting Ca2+ better than y sperm, giving them a better shot at an added boost once inside the uterus?
The good news is, even though it IS complicated we know what to do, even if we DON'T fully understand the mechanisms involved. We know that lowering testosterone is possible through a lower protein diet and weight loss, and we know we can dry up CM with antihistamines, and we know that lower sperm count sways pink and what things we can do to achieve that. So even though we don't have all the answers as to what hormone/mineral sways and why and how, we can still do a lot towards achieving our DG just by lowering testosterone, drying up CM, and lowering sperm count.Quote:
Originally Posted by lindi
Well, for me, I don't have much weight to lose, and I am already a vegetarian, and I have a history of high testosterone, so I'm going to do all I can to lower testosterone through herbs, diet modifications, lavender and tea tree oil, trips to the spa to relax, but I know that's not the quickest or easiest thing to do- and DH and I are so exhausted right now anyways his sperm count is probably very low these days :(, so I'm hanging a LOT of additional hope on changing my minerals since those calcium studies seem convincing to me...I have been inspired to really try to believe in calcium... the more I look into it, the more I think calcium does have some effect. I know we are supposed to stay ultra low nutrient, but I do think I'm going to stick with high calcium thing.
That sounds like an excellent plan!! Do keep the antihistamines in the back of your mind, I think they can help. I wish you the very best.
Wow, thanks for sharing that info, Lindi! You are really making me think. Hard. I like that though. :) Maybe you're right. Maybe that is the precise reason where the calcium and magnesium come to play. It makes sense and it does link the mineral and hormone theory together.
I still don't think there is a magic number of mg of the specific minerals, but rather the ratio of the Ca + Mg/K + Na as well as the effect on our hormones, calorie, nutrient and fat intakes.
I'm sure you are all familiar with Dutch study. This is the link to the abstract (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21051285) I coudln't find the full text, probably some of you will. The goal was to conceive girl ( so blue swayers can try for opposite) Desirable timing was "last intercourse was at least 3 days before ovulation"
There were 135 pregnancies that led to 109 live births.
Correct diet and correct timing produced 81 % of girls (26 girls, 6 boys).
Study showed direct connection between Ca blood levels and conception of girls.
I conceived my girls when I was practically living on dairy. I know Atomic says she conceived her boys while she was eating dairy, but the 2 of us are rather small sample LOL!
Calcium itself has very high pH, but then again milk is acidifying.
Maybe it is more about whole lifestyle and other aspects of diet, not just Ca/Mg and Na/K. I mean if you are eating other boy friendly food and have well balanced nutrition then Ca rich products are just a bonus et vice versa? Yoghurt for example is a great source of Potassium, but I've decreased my intake to 1-2 dl every other day because I was drinking it daily at least 2dl when I conceived my girls.
I remember one pink swayer from IG who said her CM pH started to raise because of Ca supplements. So it's really complex when it comes to dairy.....
Lindi's post is making things clearer :agree:
I apologize for my grammar mistakes.
Exactly! :agree:Quote:
Originally Posted by Viene
Ooops, I just saw Atomic's post about Dutch study on How we got our boys thread :oops:
I'm sorry, I wasn't trying to be smart a$$.
I'm still not convinced about high Calcium intake due to my own experience, IDK....
No, not at all! I would never fault anyone for wanting to include minerals as part of their sway. And I totally agree, if you conceived your girls eating a lot of dairy then try something new and see what happens. I personally think that eating just dairy probably DOES sway pink because it's still a limited and restricted diet (did you read the part 2 of this essay?) and if the calcium comes into play, even better.
I just don't want people to rely totally on minerals for swaying because I have seen a lot of people who don't do anything other than take supplements and then wonder why their sways didn't work.
The #1 problem I have with the French Diet is that 75% of all the women on planet Earth (and more than that in Africa and Asia) are lactose intolerant and cannot eat dairy at all. Yet they still conceived both boys and girls in 50-50 ratio. In fact, countries that eat the most dairy, such as the Scandinavian countries, actually have MORE boys than countries that eat no dairy at all.
I read somewhere that calcium and potassium regulate the CM consistency in conjunction with estrogen, progesterone and pH. I found some nice articles on proteins called mucins that were interesting reading (one is here: article). I think all evidence points in one direction, to be honest, but it's possible that dietary intake of calcium might not play a great part if there is lots of estrogen in your system, for instance.
Thank you for sharing! Interesting info!
For some reason the link to the second part of this essay wasn't in the first part...
http://genderdreaming.com/forum/show...conundrum+part
I think I conceived my boys by not taking in calcium. the only calcium I got was from green leafy vegetables, a few servings of cheese a week, and yogurt maybe once a week. That's it. I haven't drank milk in probably 10 years and I just don't like dairy at all! If I had cerreal, it was rice milk. Now that I'm keeping track of my calcium I realize how much dairy and supps I have to consume just to be within normal limits and avoid osteoparosis ( my mom has early signs of it). So maybe I should do the opposite of what I did? I still can't get myself to drink milk but I'm drinking kefir, eating yogurt and cheese. So for me I think I do have to take calcium to help my pink sway.
I have to chime in and say that I love me some dairy! I have 3 boys so now I am wondering since I am ttc a girl what that means for me. I have changed to rice milk and actually cut back on dairy other than low fat string cheese and yogurt not sure if I should cut back more? I guess I need to thow out the calcium support that I bought because they have vit d in them. Did not see any without it. Not sure what to do about that either?
A lot of people have had success on the French Gender/IG diet and if you feel good about going that way then that is GREAT! I am not trying to deter anyone in any way at all and in fact I will help you however I can. I just want people to have all the info available so they can pick what works best for them.Quote:
Originally Posted by Glittergirl
The one thing that I DON'T want people to do is say, it's too hard to stick to the diet so I will just take calcium supplements and avoid salt. I saw several people do that on IG and I feel that is a recipe for a failed sway.
This post is so interesting, but I also have to add that scandinavian food is incredibly high in salt and the main foods are red meat and potatoes along with "salty" fish and soya based sauces. So yes, while scandinavian people may consume alot of calcium they also consume alot of red meat and high amount of salt and potassium and the food is always cooked using full fat cream. I know this because I'm swedish myself and grew up in Sweden ;) scandinavian food is far from girl friendly on any level so I am not suprised swedes/scandinavians give birth to alot of boys!
Ok so now my calcium plan is looking confusing.
BIG ??? What kind of calcium was everyone taking?
Calcium Carbonate is the most common calcium in drinks/mixed/prenatal/plain vitamins or anything with calcium in it. Suppose to sway boy. Calcium Citrate is harder to find in a vitamin by itself, I found mine at GNC. Suppose to sway girl! I decided to disolve calcium pills in water... Calcium Citrate 250mg was at a 6.5 ph and Calcium Caronate 600mg (with 500IU of D) was at a 9.8ph. Before I changed calcium I took 1,200mg a day of the Cal Caronate (since before my boys) and no other dairy and my ph was on average 8-9.8. After going to 2,000mg of Cal Citrate with no other dairy my ph is about 6.2..... My DS1 is allergic to dairy and soy (he can open the frig) so we have decided to keep them out of the house for now.
Dairy is suppose to turn acidic in the body but has a high ph. Dairy that comes from cows that were giving antibiotics or hormones are more likely to increase your boy swaying hormones. Fortified dairy should only be for swaying boy. Dairy in the form of RAW is hormones/anti/fortify free milk so it would be for a girl sway??? One list I found list all drinkable dairy as turning akaline in the body but butter, cheese, cottage cheese, custard, ice cream, and milk (boiled, cooked, dried) are acidifying???
So what is best for a girl sway???
I think skim milk and fat-free yogurt is the best dairy for pink but watch the protein and sodium/potassium and don't drink too much. Organic is best and raw is great (because of the vitamin D) but not everyone can get raw milk.
Calcium citrate is often recommended for pink. I thought it was because of the pH but apparently the pH is much higher. Another girl was taking it and it made her pH skyrocket! (I WISH this was easier! :P)
The acid/alkaline stuff is so confusing and to make it worse the info is different between books and between websites.
I cannot say, until more scientific research is done, what is truly best. There are no guarantees in this unfortunately.
I can tell you that if I was swaying pink, I would eat a low protein, low calorie, low fat, low sodium, low nutrient diet (and yes, even less calcium), lose weight, and keep my blood sugar on the low side.
If I was swaying blue I would do the exact opposite of that, plus lift weights.
I am started to think that we (DH too) will be diabetic vegans for about a month :) That should help me to loose the extra weight I need to sway girl.
Acid/Akaline info that I have found very useful is from the livingstrong website. They actually say that foods that are acidic turn akaline in the body..... having some fun I tested the ph in my meals/drinks for 4 days, urine, and cm (right before, during, and after Ov) Eating Grapefruit and Lemon Aid raised my ph so high that I thought the meter was wrong.
With my next Ov cycle I am going to eat acidifying foods from the list and see what happens... I will update in a few weeks with the results.