Vegetarian - Pescetarian Swaying Boy - delayed O!

I am 31 and have been TTC boy for 3 months, tracking cycles, CM and BBT methodically every day. Before we even thought about TTC, I would always notice monthly EWCM for 2-3 days but didn't even understand what it meant, just that it was an annoyance!

I am 90% vegetarian, and eat fish every second day. I weigh 49 kgs, 168cm tall. I also drink a soy milk coffee every morning and have been doing so for 10 years. My pre-sway diet and sway diet is very similar. I eat anything I want as long as it's veg or seafood, I do not cut down on portions, I finish everything in front of me, I walk everywhere since I work/live inner city and do not drive. I'm away from my home country 1-2 weeks a month (difficult!) I don't drink nor smoke. Cycles were perhaps 25-28 days.

However, since I started tracking and swaying, this is what I've noticed:

• Went overboard on evening primrose and a bunch of other "ingender boy vitamins" that I swear totally delayed my March cycle by 10 days! The biggest change I started eating was adding gelatin powder to 1 meal every day! I mean massive scoops of it! Stopped that as soon as I realised my cycle was approaching 35 days!
• Did pick up positive OPK (both on 6 strips and Clearblue digital) which lasted from CD24-CD25 (48 hours of very strong dark dark lines on the strips)
• Husband and I did SMEP plan on what I "thought" was the predicted O day, then later when I got the "Peak Fertility" on Clearblue on CD 24. AF came on CD 36 though.
• Reduced back to Elevit + additional 2x 500ug Folic Acid + 60mg Iron + 1000mcg B12 (this is my daily now)
• However, since that weirdly long cycle, I'm on CD 16 and still have neg OPKs, so likely that my cycle has been elongated again.
• BBT has NOT shown clear biphasic patterns. Last cycle, dropped 0.4 deg Celcius AFTER my clearblue positive, then down to a consistent 35.7 when AF came, and I was in the same country during that time. Now I'm back in my home country and it looks like my BBT went up by 0.4 deg Celcius after Flo's predicted O day. But there was zero EWCM and perhaps by the time I checked the OPK on CD5 onwards it was too late, since I was expecting a longer cycle due to Flo's prediction. So I've had no EWCM, no positive OPK anywhere, but a weirdly "higher" BBT.

Questions I have are fairly wide:
1. Should I be introducing more seafood or even consider introducing meat into my diet? I really just cut out meat starting from 2015 for environmental reasons.
2. I travel once a month overseas for work, do planes affect anyone TTC? Different weather? I've been cautious committing to work trips during fertile periods already, and people at work are already getting a bit weird about my "block out dates without reason". I think I can manage their attitude, but wondering whether planes or travel affect cycles or implantation. I noticed that my BBT varies in different countries already.. no idea if it's humidity or weather.
3. What can I do to get my cycle back to its shorter lengths (and therefore more attempts?)

THANK YOU!

Yes we have totally given up on EPO because it messed up cycles and seemed to be swaying pink anyway. Stay well away from that.

Generally I have my blue swayers avoid soy milk but you've been having it for so long I think it's fine that you continue. YOu're used to it. But I would not eat any other soy products in addition to that.

Fish/seafood needs to be no more than 2 or 3 times a week max. This is due to the potential for mercury and other contaminants that may be in them, which can add up in your body and not only sway pink, but also possibly affect a baby's health negatively.

Are you doing green tea?? That has delayed ovualtion for some people.

Are you gaining a lot of weight very fast and eating a lot of refined carbs?

I would probably have you go to every other day on the B12 or even every 2 days instead. that's a lot of B12 and while I have never seen anyone who seemed to have delayed O from B12, B6 has absolutely delayed O so I just want to rule that out as a potential source of O being delayed.

If you're willing to eat meat, I do think it's beneficial but you don't have to if you prefer not to.

I personally do not think travel sways either way if you're used to it (it sounds as if it's old hat for you.) For some people, the stress/disruption of their life may potentially sway pink, but I don't think it would affect you in that way since this is just a normal day to day thing for you.

We need to get to the bottom of what is causing the delayed cycle. I am inclined to agree with you that it's most likely the supplements and so stopping them will help things get back to regularly scheduled programming - BUT this may take a couple months to work itself out. And I also want to be sure that we are correct that it's really the supplements and not as a result of (even if in part) more calories/carbs in your diet activating any underlying PCO tendencies. So if you could tell me more about your diet overall, any history of PCOS or symptoms (body hair, trouble losing weight, irregular cycles, that kind of thing) that would really help. :)

Thank you for the detailed response!

Soy: I've read the posts you've made on boy genitalia defects on soy and now I'm thinking of pouring it all down the sink! Away it goes, even though you think I might be used to it!

Supps: Last month, before I realised that my ovulation was going to be so delayed, I was taking L'arnitine, CoQ10, L'arginine, B2, B12, Fertile CM, Guafinesin, EPO, i-Folic (400ug folic acid), Feosol, Vitamin E, Zinc, all on top of my Elevit.
This month I only take Elevit, 2x 400ug folic acid, Feosol and B12. I've taken your advice on cutting back the B12. That was for my vege diet.

Diet: Noted on cutting back on seafood esp large fish. Will need to find more protein sources. I only drink green tea once a week when eating Japanese food at restaurants. I need to find lots more sources of protein.. it's so hard eating buckets of mushy beans! Might introduce chicken, or do the hormones affect a boy sway?

PCOS: Every ultrasound I get from my obgyn, the scans shows clusters of cysts (?). Not to the point of PCOS but the doctors have said there might be an inclination towards it.

Ovulation: Today (CD19) - I got a darkish line on the IC strip and a flashing smiley on the digital OPK. So it is delayed, but at least en route!

BD: Currently doing SMEP. I use a mooncup at the end because I've been using them for years and it's second nature to pop a cup in without losing any semen. I find it cleaner this way, because I can get up after 5 minutes and shower, avoid UTIs, and only take it out 12 hours later on my next shower. Not sure if this is misguided because just because it's in my vagina doesn't mean it's near my cervix.

Agh no wonder your O was delayed!!

l-carnitine, l-arginine, Fertile CM, and EPO ALL delay ovulation. Those need to go right away.

You do not need more nutrients on top of Elevit. WEan off of the extra stuff that is already in the Elevit. The folic acid or folate needs to be at 2000 mcg.

Do you need the feosol for iron deficiency?

Ok. Since you do have an inclination towards PCOS I think you must take caution not to go overboard with carbs becasue that can activate underlying PCO tendencies and make your cycle get irregular. I suspect your irregular cycle is from the herbs and not your diet but that's another reason to add in some meat (and chicken is fine) because vegetarian diets do tend to be on the carbier side. I would use eggs, nuts, dairy, and some meat if you can instead of really loading up on carbier proteins like those in beans and grains.

i don't love the mooncup because I think they can in effect seal semen OUT and get pressed up against the cervix like a diaphragm in addition to the concept of losing semen upon instertion. It's your call to make but that has always been my concern with the cups.

Bloodtests show very low iron levels, less than quarter of minimum, so I need to keep taking it.
Interesting, I just looked at my bloodwork (which was taken just before I took all the O-delaying supplements) and I can also see that my SHBG is high, and testosterone levels are on the low side. I've read on your forums that high SHBG will bind the testosterone away, thereby lowering chances of boy?

One possibility is that all those O-delaying supplements were increasing testosterone and thereby delaying O, is that possible?

Given my current scenario, would it be worth it trying to still increase my testosterone without all the supplements since my bloodwork seems very girl-friendly right now?

:agree: That's fine to take it, sometimes I have blue swayers who think "well, if some nutrients are good, more must be better" and then will be taking dangerous amounts of supplements. Iron can be harmful in high doses so just wanted to be sure you were not hurting your health.

We don't even know that testosterone sways blue. That's the theory, but it has NEVER been proven by any blood tests, only answers on personality quizzes (and since women's personalities ahve been shown to be unaffected by testosterone, it's a pretty big leap to assume answers on personality quizzes have anything to do with testosterone)

You do not even know anything based on your blood tests. The people on some other sites like to pretend that they know things that have never been studied, but when you go and read the actual studies, none of them are in any way definitive and are all based on pretty sketchy info. But the entire HE Diet/exercise is designed to raise your testosterone in ways that are healthy, natural, and safe, instead of pumping your body full of herbs many of which are completely unstudied for safety. PLEASE continue doing diet and exercise because unlike all the rest of the mumbo jumbo, we know that works for people.

Yes, messing with your hormone levels can basically give you a kind of PCOS and that is likely what happened. Your body started making testosterone and stopped making estrogen and progesterone in the right proportion and ovulation was delayed.

Thanks, yes diet only for me going forward! Going to look for some non-soy protein, which I feel the easiest is meat, especially when out at work or somewhere overseas. I want to commit to this sway.

Thanks for everything! Will update on whether O is delayed again next cycle.

:bluecheer: Sending you all my blue dust! LMK if you need any help!

This month's chart looks good: LH Surge peaked on CD19 and temp jumped up 0.4 Celcius on CD21. I am currently on CD30 and temps have climbed even higher by a further 0.5 Celcius as of CD26.

Am waiting until 12dpo until I test though :)

If I get a bfn this month, I'm wondering whether to include soy isoflavones next month from CD2-5

NOTE: I've completely cut my daily soy milk and have started eating meat again...!

What end with the soy iso?? To help with ovulation or to sway blue?

I find that it has made people's cycles get actually more unpredictable, not less. And there is seriously mixed data about how they sway - while I know the conventional wisdom is that they sway blue I am really not at all convinced that they do and we got 60% girls taking them (this was with pink sways, though). I just don't see a benefit to them and possibly harm for blue sways.

Ok if that's what your data shows, thanks for clarifying.

I now have a shortish luteal phase (10 days) and read on these forums that they brought forward O.

Also read it on your twin sway!

Oh I will still take the chance on them for someone who truly needs Clomid, for example, and their doctors won't give it to them. By "truly needs" I mean, they are going 2-3 months or more without ovulating yet their doctors will not give them fertility medication. It ~can~ move ovulation forward, but it is simply not reliable enough to take the chance on someone who is already ovulating on CD 19/20 ish - that is still in normal range and I would never take the chance on soy messing up your cycle (truly messing it up, making it take months to O again) for that.

Also let me clarify about the way your luteal phase works. I think you're assuming that by moving your ovulation forward, that your cycle will stay the same length and then your LP will therefore be longer. But that's not how it works. Your FP and LP and cycle length are all operating kind of independent from each other. So let's say you take the soy and it moves your O day forward to CD 14 for example. Then your LP is just tacked onto the end of that! So you'd get AF on CD 24 and your LP would still be 10 days. Or it could end up even shorter due to the effects of the soy. So you could end up Oing not on CD 19/20 but on CD 35 and then have a 7 day LP at the end of that (which would be far, far worse than if you had done nothing, of course!) The main reason why I rarely use soy any more is because it did that to so many people...made their O come late and/or their LP short.

So I hope this explains why I do recommend soy for some people some of the time (rarely, only people who need help with ovulating but their doctors won't help them because they have kids already or the doc thinks they need to try longer first) but not in your situation. :)