Girl sway advice needed - short luteal

Hi Atomic, others,

I think AF has arrived today (eighth cycle trying) and I am at a crossroads about what to do.

Despite starting the atomic fertility diet in June / July (although only really following it to the letter in July) and cutting out sugar, gluten, dairy (apart from one portion of full fat yoghurt per day), I am still not able to get my luteal phase above about 8 days. It is driving me nuts!

I am a massively type A personally so my natural reaction is to throw everything I have at the problem.

Things that I need to factor in:

-I am 11 months post partum (cycles came back in january, stopped breast feeding last December).
-this was my first cycle off Femara or vitex. My first and second cycle I did vitex, the next three cycles were Femara and the next two were vitex).

-I ovulated on day 21 this month on my own - it was 22 last month on vitex.

-I had the same short luteal problem when I conceived my second son (but before I felt pregnant I noticed all of my cycles were exactly 28 days and my ovulation moved one day forward every month - until it got to day 20 ovulation and then I fell pregnant). My cycle was 28 days this month.

I was throwing everything at the kitchen sink to get pregnant with my second son as I had a failed HT cycle at Genesis in Cyprus and had been scaremongered into thinking my fertility was screwed). I was doing acupuncture, preseed, fertility tea, Maca, vitamin d, eating extremely healthily. You name it - I was doing it.

I also had a low AMH result three times last year (varied between low normal / low and very low) so got worried that it meant my conceiving days were limited. I have since seen a study basically saying AMH is not accurate in predicting natural fertility.

We could just about afford a HT cycle in America and part of me toys with going out there sooner rather than later but I am so worried what happened in Cyprus will happen again (I had 7 eggs retrieved but they were all poor quality and none made it to blast - I actually think my eggs were fried as I was on the highest dose of drugs for a long time). I think if we don’t have success by the time I am 36 (so next July), we may consider it again. Luckily I have an identical twin sister who I know would share eggs with me so I always feel like I have her eggs in my back pocket too if we need to pool resources on that front. I don’t know what her fertility is like - she doesn’t have kids.

Anyway, back to swaying. I am thinking of making some changes as I feel like if I don’t get my LP to 10 days I have zero chance at pregnancy so I am thinking of doing:

-Half dose of MegaMag Fem Balance daily (it contains magnesium, b vits, vitamin c etc) and is designed to balance hormones
-Daily dose of iron
-Atomic fertility diet plus no gluten, no dairy apart from full fat yoghurt, no sugar
-Drop alcohol and my daily coffee
-Try to improve my sleep
-Start acupuncture again to try to balance my cycle out
-Do E3D plus one (so the Monday / Thursday pattern plus one attempt at pos opk) or SMEP - can’t decide
-Go to docs and get a progesterone test and request some progesterone suppositories.

I am loathe to do clomid yet as I feel like i’ll still have this luteal problem and it will be wasted until it is sorted out. I also do not want to do preseed yet as I feel this strongly swayed as I did it with both boys.

What do you think? Is this a recipe for another boy? I figure that I am low on hormones and I need some kind of kick start or boost to get things running well and give me a good shot at pregnancy

Advice much appreciated,

MM x

Well, I have no idea why you'd cut out dairy to get your LP longer, I'd honestly have you add in another serving of full fat dairy.

So just to make sure I have the timeline here:

You're only 11 months postpartum
You have been on either vitex or Femara for the past seven months you have been on either one or the other.
You have been eating a very restrictive diet.

Mrs M, it would be a MIRACLE if your LP was not screwed up.

Toss the vitex in the garbage and do not take it again. Set Femara aside and don't take it till your baby is at least 18 months old. Stay away from Clomid. You should not take Clomid ever given your AMH number. Femara only for you.
Femara and Clomid will NOT help you get pregnant if your body is not ready to get pregnant after having fairly recently had a baby so above all else please hold off on fertility medications for now.

Do not take the MegaMag. I have seen that screw up cycles in tons of people. If you must take something then just take a regular prenatal with no more than 100% DRV of all b Vitamins and NO myoinositol or any other added herbal components. We have seen TERRIBLE results for conception in people using myoinositol when they did not need it. I would have you take that prenatal/multivitamin 3x a week instead of daily.

I suspect, strongly strongly strongly suspect that right now you're LOW in hormones. Vitex and myoinositol both lower hormones even more, so for you, taking those things will be tossing gasoline on a fire. They work for people who have PCOS-related fertility issues and they work BY interfering with and lowering hormone levels. So for someone who has their hormone levels too low, adding in these type of things is worse than nothing.

Drop fiber if you were taking that, and be sure that in addition to TWO servings of full fat dairy every day, you're also having 6 eggs a week and a serving of BOTH red meat and salmon every week.

Iron 30-60 mg 3x week only.

Fine to drop coffee and alcohol, but seriously doubt that is the issue here

:agree: getting better sleep

Acupuncture is a waste of money; if it works, it sways blue, and it probably doesn't work. I know some of you guys have felt it helped, I'm jsut going off of what reliable studies have found.

That's e4d plus one. There is no e3d, it just adds confusion. I do not want you to go to SMEP yet. YOu're going all in on a blue sway for no reason because the most likely thing is that your body has just not been ready to conceive again so quickly.

No preseed, I do not think you need it and that's not the issue anyway

Progesterone supps have been shown to be a placebo. They do not help anyone get or stay pregnant and in fact simmply extend the amount of time an unviable pregnancy lasts. A viable pregnancy will make all the progesterone it needs, and if your progesterone drops, it's virtually always because the pregnancy was not working out. Get them if you want, but I think it's better to give your body the raw materials it needs to fix this problem instead of just covering up that your period is coming sooner than it should.

I concur that you are low in hormones. So what we need to do is give your body what it needs to fix this situation without messing it up further. 9 times out of 10 if not more, what people do is take a minor problem that their body is already working to fix, and then make it vastly worse with herbs and megadose nutrients while throwing away things that weren't even doing them any harm, undermining their sway. It is by far and away best to drop the things that don't work and cut odds of conception, let your body fix the problem on its own, and stay away from the "miracle cures" which more often than not end up causing even more problems while not fixing the problems you had to start with.

Atomic - that’s all correct and thanks so so much for your advice! I will do exactly as you say! Will follow this to the letter!

I think you are correct - I am low in hormones generally and that is what is preventing me from getting pregnant. Don’t worry, I will never take vitex again! And will hold off on more Femara for a few months.

I will also drop the MegaMag and go to a regular prenatal. And thanks for the diet tips - will follow that to the letter too on the red meat and salmon front, eggs 6 times a week.

You are so kind to offer me such great advice and reassurance.

I will report back in a couple of months and let you know how I am getting on. I felt much better this cycle having stopped the Femara and vitex and definitely felt more hormone-y, twinges in my ovaries, period pains etc so hopefully that is a good sign of things to come. Looking back, on vitex and Femara I literally had zero symptoms the whole month so they must have been suprresssijg my hormones quite a lot.

For anyone wondering about this issue, I think atomic was bang on the money! I think I just be LOW in hormones generally.

This month my cycle has improved in that I ovulated 3 days earlier (so on day 17) and my luteal phase was 9 days - so two days improvement on last month. Still not double figures but pretty close!

This last month I have had raspberry leaf tea daily, have had an egg daily, two helpings of dairy and 125g of chicken or salmon with lunch and dinner. I am clearly someone who a can not tolerate a restrictive or vegan diet - I don’t think my body wants to play ball. I just needed to nourish it more.

Will keep going with the fertility diet and doing E4D plus one this month. I have also been having half a preconception tablet daily and magnesium daily to relax me. I might switch up to one preconception tablet daily this month.

Both times I was pregnant before I used preseed and am v relunctant to use it again as I fear it will sway heavily Boy. However, I do think lack of cm is a bit of an issue for me. Should I take some cough medicine or something this month to try to increase cm?

Thank you atomic for your excellent advice! I am so grateful for your words of encouragement and your trust in what I needed to do.

On the whole, I have learnt that some people’s bodies really do need nourishment and a bit of special treatment in order to balance hormones / to get preggo.

Please do not add in either preseed or guaifenesin. You've already compromised as much as I am comfy having you compromise and I worry about your sway adding those thigns in.

Thanks atomic - I’ll hold off on those for now then! Many thanks again for your advice xx

You're so welcome! FXFXFX and TX too!! :cheer: :cheer: :cheer:

Update - i’ve been eating perfectly, taking raspberry leaf tea, magnesium etc and still can’t get my luteal phase past 8/9 days.

I need a plan as now desperate to be pregnant! I’m 10 cycles in.

Maybe this is just normal for me and I know I can get pregnant with a short luteal as I had one with my second son (not sure about my first). I then started taking everything under the sun - vitamin d, royal jelly, preseed etc and was pregnant pretty much right away.

At a crossroads about what to try next. I took preseed for both my boys and it worked the first month, should I maybe try conceive plus as it has a pink package!! I was also doing smep.

I feel like I need to do something different to give me a fighting chance - I am stuck. I am thinking of doing conceive plus, smep and maybe getting some cylcogest progesterone suppositories from somewhere as a lot of women with short luteals seem to say they are a miracle cure and i’ve never tried them before.

Would adding some vitamin d into the mix be a really bad move or sensible at this point too?

I'm going to suggest a compromise of EITHER Conceive Plus OR SMEP and the prog supplements.

If you'd like to add in the Vit. D that's fine, 3x a week.

Thanks atomic! Which do you think I should go for SMEP or Concieve Plus? How many attempts if I do go for concieve plus - E4D Mon / Thurs pattern plus one attempt at pos opk?

I can’t get progesterone on prescription in the UK but getting a hormone profile test done to see what’s going on this month.

That's an interesting question.

Do you think your husband CAN do SMEP? Because not all guys can keep up with that.

Do you think this is a problem of EWCM (in which case do the Conceive Plus) or is it sperm count (in which case do SMEP) but if your hubby can't do SMEP then do the Conceive plus, of course!

I did know that they're quite reticent in the UK to give prog support (and I think they're correct doing that since it's not medically indicated to be anything more than a placebo.) I know some have got them in Spain though if you wanted to give that a go.

I can only comfort you...
My LP was just as short as yours on the LE diet.
It was 10 days, then 9 days, then 8 days, then 9 days - but then I fell pregnant!!! It was the 2nd month of ttc!

So...it can work out anyway, and Atomic is surely right, you just need time and more quality food, and your body will fix this problem! 11 month pp is a very short time to fall pregnant again.




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Linni - thank you so so much!!! That has offered me comfort no end!! I am hoping I can just relax and get a day or so more to extend it by. And then hopefully fall pregnant of course! Thanks for your reassurance.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Linni

I can only comfort you...
My LP was just as short as yours on the LE diet.
It was 10 days, then 9 days, then 8 days, then 9 days - but then I fell pregnant!!! It was the 2nd month of ttc!

So...it can work out anyway, and Atomic is surely right, you just need time and more quality food, and your body will fix this problem! 11 month pp is a very short time to fall pregnant again.




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Thanks atomic. Well both times when we fell pregnant before I used preseed (first month I used it both times) so I think it’s ewcm. How much is too much? I looked up preseed and it’s own survey said 19 boys and 17 girls or something in one study so if I just use say half of what they recommend do you think that would be ok? And should we use it every time? I am inclined to to give me the best shot at conception.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by atomic sagebrush

That's an interesting question.

Do you think your husband CAN do SMEP? Because not all guys can keep up with that.

Do you think this is a problem of EWCM (in which case do the Conceive Plus) or is it sperm count (in which case do SMEP) but if your hubby can't do SMEP then do the Conceive plus, of course!

I did know that they're quite reticent in the UK to give prog support (and I think they're correct doing that since it's not medically indicated to be anything more than a placebo.) I know some have got them in Spain though if you wanted to give that a go.

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Yes, you can still get girls with Preseed and Conceive Plus, of course. Most of these things only sway a couple % points either way, it's the cumulative effect.

We don't know how much is too much. It very likely varies by the couple anyway - such as if a woman had EWCM already and her husband had a massively high sperm count it might sway more blue than a couple with very little EWCM and low sperm count, if that makes sense. Using half makes sense to me. Yes, i"d use it every time in the fertile window if you think that's what your main stumbling block is (and please keep me posted, hearing your results is what helps me learn how effective things like Preseed and CP really are for boosting odds of conception)