Back and prepairing second sway

Hi atomic and everyone else,

after giving birth to my DS3 in Dec 2018, who is literally the missing link of our family, that we just didn't know we were missing, I still can't get the thought of a fourth child and swaying again for a girl out of my head. My first sway was quite strong, I think (diet, excercise, one attempt, femara, coffee), so I'm thinking about what else I could add:

Is there any point in continuing to breastfeed until ttc? I just got my cycle back and interestingly AF is very light now. After the birth of DS1 and 2 it was quite heavy and only got lighter while swaying for DC3. Maybe that has to do with breastfeeding, so that there could be quite a strong impact on my hormones?

I will be almost 39 when we will possibly ttc. Last time I took femara so now I'm thinking about trying clomid. Would that be okay inspite of my age? I somehow have the feeling, femara sways best for PCOSlers, could that be a thing?

What are the latest recommendations about OLE, should I try to persuade DH to take it this time? Or is it still not really clear if it does anything?

Thanks in advance for answering my questions. It somehow feels good to be back lol [emoji23]



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I believe breastfeeding sways pink and if it's something you enjoy then I always recommend continuing if you'd like.

At 39 I prefer Femara because Clomid can raise FSH and mess with your egg quality. Femara was shown in a study to actually be better than Clomid for swaying pink so I don't think that was what caused you to get a boy. That having been said we don't have adequate safety data on Femara while breastfeeding. Now personally, I don't think anything you take for 5 days and then stop taking could cause any harm in breastfeeding, just that it's less studied than Clomid (the studies that have been done are in Femara for cancer patients who take it for long periods of time, not for only 5 days)

I don't think approaching your sway with the attitude that you did something "wrong" or that you were lacking anything is the correct one. The fact is if any of this stuff could ever be 100% the entire human race would have died out a long time ago. There is and always will be an element of luck involved in swaying that seems to make opposites 25-30% of the time and so it very well may be you had the best possible sway and just fell into the opposites. Swaying is truly one of the things in life you can do the same thing twice and get a different outcome.

I do always have my moms who got opposites to go onto the alternate diet, so if you weren't on that before, please go onto it now.

OLE - I'm still not convinced it's doing anything. UP to you.

It's nice to have you back, and huge congrats on DS 3!!!

Thank you for your answer atomic! I will continue breastfeeding for a while and see what time brings.

I did the pcos version of LE diet last time and will definitely do it this time as well. I never had gestational diabetes "officially", but DS 2 had a birth weight of more than 10 lbs and with DS3 I had repeated glucose tolerance tests because of that, which were borderline too high from week 34. So I seem to be prone to blood sugar issues. Would you recommend myo-inositol in my case? I would take it for swaying only, I never had any problems with my cycle or getting pregnant.

At least in the past I had very regular cycles. This is my first cycle pp an I just had spotting from CD13-CD15, when I would normally expect my opk to turn positive. I never had spotting midcycle. I did see some EWCM, but now it's CD18 and still no positive opk. I hope this is due to breastfeeding, or could this be a sign of menopause approaching?

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Please do not jump right to the "m" word (menopause) when you have cycle weirdness. I have people worry about this constantly and I can count on one hand the number of people who actually were having perimenopause (which can go on years during which you can still conceive) or POF. It is normal to have weird cycles postpartum especially when

While I normally hesitate for you to take myo when breastfeeding, your baby is over a year old now and it's probably ok. I would only have you take 500 mg daily from AF-O and then every other day O-AF.

Yes absolutely I want you on that alt. diet still!! Do be sure you're starting off on upper level calories 1800-2000!

Thank you atomic! I will get some blood work done next month because I also have some sleeping issues. But I also think it's by far more likely that the cycle weirdness is due to breastfeeding than due to menopause.

Atm I have a longer cycle with EWCM every now and then and OPKs turning almost positive and then negative again for several days. I think my body is ramping up to o, but then decides it's better not to o. Do you think this sways in any way? I read that EWCM means that a lot of estrogen is present. So I thought several phases of EWCM in one cycle might mean especially high exposure of the egg to estrogen and thus sway blue?

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Yes that's exactly what many of us myself included have noticed when breastfeeding. We call those "practice cycles"

We do not think that means your egg is getting exposed to high levels of estrogen. In fact, these practice cycles often occur because there is NOT ENOUGH estrogen to complete ovulation. There is no data that indicates practice cycles sway blue in any way, and so many women get girls with strange and irregular cycles due to breastfeeding or cutting back too far on food that there is no way practice cycles are swaying blue.

Hi atomic, I have one more question. Are cereals/mueslis a no-no on LE diet? I read that cereals might sway blue. I have an organic whole grain spelt muesli mix that I really enjoy. It's not fortified or enriched with vitamins, only different kind of spelt flakes and a small amount of chocolate, resulting in 7.2 g/100 g sugar. Would that amount of sugar be okay on pcos diet, if I eat ~120 g a day?

Thank you so much in advance! :-)

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And another question. If I have milk with a meal, is semi-skimmed okay then? The meal would contain fat. For my coffee, that I don't have with meals, I would use full fat milk.

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We assume that the reason cereal was found to sway blue in one study was because it is fortified (and/or also because most people eat them as breakfast!). But the truth is we don't KNOW it for a fact, and so most people skip even fortified cereals. But I do think the non-fortified ones are probably fine for most people.

As long as you don't have moderate to severe PCOS and are on the alternate diet more as a preventative it's also likely fine. If you do have more severe PCOS it may be too carby but you can still have it as an occasional cheat.

If you are on the PCOS-type diet you must have full fat dairy ONLY. No semi-skimmed dairy. Skim and part skim dairy is terrible for blood sugar.

Hi atomic, can I please have your advice again? I knew blood sugar might be an issue for me, since DS2 had a birth weight of more than 10 lbs and I had a borderline too high glucose tolerance test at 36 weeks in my pregnancy with DS3. After he was born, I wasn't tested any further, although I know it's recommended. In the last weeks I often felt dizzy and shaky after my meals, especially lunch, which is my first meal each day. I checked blood sugar and it was 160, once even 180. I had eaten 170 g / 0,37 lbs of whole grain pasta, which is a lot of carbs for one meal, but I think for my health I shouldn't eat that many carbs anymore. I'll also go and see my doc of course.

My question is, what does this mean for my sway? I have started to eat full fat yoghurt for lunch, which I tolerate well, but of course I'm over the limits for fat and prot. I have to eat like 1.5 cups of yoghurt with a muesli mix containing wholgrain spelt and nuts to get enough calories. Most days I'm between 70-80 g for prot and 60-70 g for fat. Is this still swaying at all?

Can I ask you for your general thoughts on how high blood sugar sways blue? Is it better to avoid peaks in blood sugar or to have a higher blood sugar after meals but low blood sugar in between? If I eat something that contains a little bit of sugar (like 10 grams in one meal) and my blood sugar stays in a good range, is it okay to eat that sugar or does it influence my blood sugar (and thus my sway) in a different negative way, that is not seen immediately?

I have one meal at 11:30 a.m. and one at 5:30 p.m., sometimes a third one in the afternoon. Most of the time my blood sugar is very low. I know you probably don't have the data to tell me what blood sugar is "okay" for swaying, but maybe you can give me an estimation?

I'm consuming so much dairy atm, 1.5 cups yoghurt and around 2 cups whole fat milk. I know dairy is not recommended for swaying, but I really find it hard to find something else to eat that I like, that isn't too carby and that doesn't make my blood sugar rise too much. Has anyone eaten that much dairy and gotten a girl anyways? I don't tolerate potatoes at all for example, such a pity :-( I'm also vegetarian, so I don't have that many choices...

In general I'm eating and have always eaten very healthy, no sweets, no soft drinks, not even juices, bmi is 23,7, so not way too high. I don't understand why I have those blood sugar issues...

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For your sway, it means you need to eat fewer carbs and it's fine for you to increase protein and fat somewhat in order to do that. I would set a limit of more like 65 g fat and 70 g protein and see how that works.

Are you on cinnamon or myoinositol (do not start these till after you have seen your doctor)?

I can't answer any of your specifics about how blood sugar works. We just don't know. Your blood sugar being low most of the day is what we're aiming at. Yes, small amounts of sugar in a meal are largely unavoidable.

Dairy is fine within limits. Just because I dont' want you guys to treat dairy as an "eat all you can" food, doesn't mean you can't have it within limits. Yes, people have had a lot of dairy (remember, the French diet is based on that!) and still gotten girl. That is honestly nothing compared to what some people have on the French diet!

I would definitely add in exercise as that can drastically improve your blood sugar.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by atomic sagebrush

For your sway, it means you need to eat fewer carbs and it's fine for you to increase protein and fat somewhat in order to do that. I would set a limit of more like 65 g fat and 70 g protein and see how that works.

Are you on cinnamon or myoinositol (do not start these till after you have seen your doctor)?

I can't answer any of your specifics about how blood sugar works. We just don't know. Your blood sugar being low most of the day is what we're aiming at. Yes, small amounts of sugar in a meal are largely unavoidable.

Dairy is fine within limits. Just because I dont' want you guys to treat dairy as an "eat all you can" food, doesn't mean you can't have it within limits. Yes, people have had a lot of dairy (remember, the French diet is based on that!) and still gotten girl. That is honestly nothing compared to what some people have on the French diet!

I would definitely add in exercise as that can drastically improve your blood sugar.

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Thank you so much for your answer!

I will try to follow your recommendation concerning limits. I'm still breastfeeding my 1.5 yo (really small amounts, but technically still breastfeeding), so I hope increasing limits a bit doesn't do that much harm.

I haven't tried using cinnamon or myoinositol. I'm not sure if they are appropriate for me because I don't have problems at all with fasting glucose. If they would lower my general glucose levels, I might get problems with too low fasting glucose? Or does their effect only last for hours after taking them? I will definitely ask the doc about that.

My next problem is that I will start a new job in September. Unfortunately the contract is temporary for two years with the option of becoming permanent after the two years. If I get pregnant during those two years, I will very likely lose that job (medical field, not allowed to work in that environment during pregnancy, so I would have to stop working for at least a year if I get pregnant). I will be 39 in November, so waiting for two more years is not really a good option also. So I think I will just try to have a pink-friendly LE-ish diet without hardcore swaying to be ready to ttc if something unforeseen happens during those two years. My heart is really sad about maybe not being able to go for another child but the job is too perfect for not taking it. Difficult situation [emoji26] but that's also the reason why I don't do the full exercise that is recommended for swaying pink. I try to fit in like 30 min exercise several times a week though. Do you have any advices for being on a sort of permanent LE diet?



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The important thing is that you're eating less than you were recently, and when you got your boy(s).

I am fine with you not taking cinnamon or myoinositol. I have had several people lately who just randomly started taking them so I just needed to make sure (super high and dangerous doses in many cases) I don't want anyone taking them without checking with me first. If we do end up putting you onto one or the other (I would likely not advise cinnamon while breastfeeding, and a low dose of myo) I do not want you to start anything till you have seen a doctor, regardless.

In your case, my suggestion would be to follow a lower carb but not very low carb, higher protein and fat type of diet such as the later stages of South Beach (not the induction phase), Protein Power Plan, or Perfect Health Diet, or a modified version of the atomic fertility diet where you eat more than what most people do. I want you to focus on whole grains, fruit, veg, nuts, full fat dairy only (no skim), eggs, and smallish amounts of meat and fish trying to stick in the 70ish range of protein. Cut out sugar and refined carbs whenever possible, and you may need to cut back on carbs all together. But DO focus more on vegetable fats, particularly olive oil, nuts, avocado, coconut oil, and less on animal (but you can still have full fat dairy and eggs, and some meat.) Salmon or tuna 2x a week but no more than that.

Normally I would have people go fully vegetarian but I think that would be a disaster for you due to the blood sugar situation and your age. Way too many carbs on a vegetarian diet. So I would do more of a 30/30/40 type of thing (30% healthy carb, 30% healthy fat, 40% protein)

Thank you again so much for taking the time to answer me atomic! I tried to calculate how much grams of prot I would have to eat on a 1850 kcal / day diet to achieve the 30/30/40 and I think I would have to eat like 140 g of prot? Wouldn't that sway the opposite way? [emoji17]

I also found this article on "normal" blood sugar peaks an it seems it's not completely unusual that blood sugar spikes up to 160 and more after a carby meal. And I guess I even had more carbs in one meal when I measured the 160/180 than the meals in that study had. I ate 170g whole grain pasta before...

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2769652/

So maybe maybe there's still hope that the doc will say that I don't have (big) a problem. I will go and see the doc soon anyways of course.

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Yes, it would be more protein than would sway pink if you followed those percentages exactly with that cal range. Which is why I mentioned the 70 g protein. Eat that style of diet with the 70 g protein range (and if you are not swaying for a while you may want to do one of those types of diets all the time.)

I agree I did not think that was a problematic blood sugar level but that's a bit beyond my pay grade so I would talk to the doc about it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by atomic sagebrush

Yes, it would be more protein than would sway pink if you followed those percentages exactly with that cal range. Which is why I mentioned the 70 g protein. Eat that style of diet with the 70 g protein range (and if you are not swaying for a while you may want to do one of those types of diets all the time.)

I agree I did not think that was a problematic blood sugar level but that's a bit beyond my pay grade so I would talk to the doc about it.

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Okay got it with the 70 g protein. I will do it that way. Thank you again atomic! [emoji253]

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Just need to clarify that that is IF you are swaying. If you are not swaying for 2 years I would ease off the protein restriction for a while.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by atomic sagebrush

Just need to clarify that that is IF you are swaying. If you are not swaying for 2 years I would ease off the protein restriction for a while.

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Oh okay I was planning to stay in the 70 g protein range during the 2 years. I might lose the job or might change my mind or something else might happen and then I wanted to be ready to ttc. Would you ease off the protein restriction because of blood sugar or other reasons?

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70 g protein is safe in the long term if you want to stick to that. I'm trying to give you a diet that will keep your insulin response optimal and is easy to stick to. If you want to be ready to go at a moment's notice then stick to the 70 g protein.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by atomic sagebrush

70 g protein is safe in the long term if you want to stick to that. I'm trying to give you a diet that will keep your insulin response optimal and is easy to stick to. If you want to be ready to go at a moment's notice then stick to the 70 g protein.

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At the moment I can't let go of the thought of ttc soon although life seems to have other plans for me... so I will stick to the 70 g range for a while and see what time brings. Thank you again so much for your advice! :-)

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Makes perfect sense!! many of us, myself included, have used swaying as a bit of a coping mechanism when we can't try - it helps just knowing that we will be ready.

Hi atomic and everyone else,

the new job turned out to be not what I was hoping for and after some very stressful months for me and my family, I quit the job. I've just started LE PCOS diet again. The only thing that is really difficult for me to fit in to my lockdown days with three kids is exercise. I'm trying to walk as much as I can, but it's almost never one consecutive hour. At the end of the day I have around 15.000 steps on my watch. Is this at least a little bit as good as exercise?

Thank you in advance!

Verena

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Oh gosh I'm sorry to hear this!

Yes that's still pretty good for exercise. Just do what you can on that - when on the PCOS-style diet it's great to get exercise even if you can't get up to the full amount.

Hi atomic, I have one short question: Is it possible to order only the coaching without the personalized plan?

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I'll message you!

Hi atomic,

it seems I can't pm you, neither via tapatalk nor via the website. I upgraded my account to dream membership some days ago but I still can't see the dream member sections. Could you help me with this?

Thank you!

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I will try messaging the site owner to get this fixed quickly. If not, I will reimburse you personally (and please don't hesitate to let me know if this happened, I want everyone who made a purchase to get what they paid for or their money back.)