Feeling a bit low...BFN

Feeling a bit low...tested today (11dpo albeit with very diluted urine) and got a BFN. Not even a hint of a line so assume this means we're out this month *sob*. I had so many symptoms I was certain it would be a BFP.

We started TTC in Aug - fell pregnant 1st time but then had a chemical, then tried in Oct (BFN), then got a BFP in Nov which again ended in chemical. I suspected long abstain was the reason for chemicals but I can't be sure of that. I'll probably schedule to get bloods done once AF arrives to see if my hormones are a bit wibbly.

We tried everything - FR, folate, 2 attempts (o-3 and o-1...OV was late this month otherwise I would have stuck at 1 attempt) and its not worked :SS:. I know it can take a while to get a BFP but it feels like time is already ticking as i'm 37.

I'm not even sure why i'm posting, i'm probably looking for a bit of a hand hold from other posters (and Atomic!) whilst we try again next month. I don't have anyone to talk to about this as nobody knows we are TTC (other than DH, who is lovely but is so chilled he's almost laid back)

Hiya, so sorry to hear this! I really know what you’re going through - I had loss after loss last year and have been thwarted by illness and late ovulations these last couple of cycles so no positive tests for me either! It’s ok to allow yourself to be sad and cry and hate the world for a bit. But then… dust yourself off, think about everything that’s good in your life and try again next month. It will happen for us :)

Is this your first time ttc? I think my hormones are a bit off too and I did very recently have a polyp removed which *hopefully* will help things along. Plus blood tests etc!

Sending hugs x

The symptoms can be devastating - I have had some months where there was literally no way I could have been pregnant and I had massive symptoms (more than I had in months I was actually pregnant!) Even things like nausea I have had during the 2WW when I was not pregnant and couldn't possibly have been. The only thing for me that has ever been a sure tell is sore BB's but at the same time, others have reported that in months they weren't pregnant so maybe that is just a "me thing" LOL.

I would drop FR. It really does cut odds of conception by quite a lot. And O-3 is pretty low chances of conception so maybe it just didn't happen this month. It's up to you if you choose to seek further investigation at this point but don't be surprised if they don't have much in the way of answers - they're really just not good at uraveling things like this unfortunately.

I do want to assure you, though, that 37 is NOT particularly old. I know the media and overzealous medical researchers like to scare people but the "stats" they quote came from the 1600's and do not reflect what a normal, healthy, modern person can expect. For whatever reason medical researchers have not been too awfully fussed with updating that info, instead just quoting it again and again (and most modern data is just as bad because it comes from IVF clinics and involves women who were having fertility challenges). We have really good results with conception even up thru age 41.

Just to say I totally understand the feeling, rational or not, of the ticking clock. Wishing you lots of luck! And to say thx Atomic for reiterating that the data re age is outdated, I feel better every time I hear that :)

@ruby_blue thank you for your kind words and support. I'm sorry to hear that you are having a hard time with all this too :( I am incredibly fortunate to have a gorgeous DD (2) who followed after a MMC at 10.5 weeks detected at the scan.

@atomic thank you for your reassurance - I always feel better after speaking to you! I know, I totally fudged my dates this month as I had 6 highs and expected my peak to come on the 5th day but came a day later than I expected. I seem to fall on o-2 the best so I aiming for that. I know, and you're absolutely right about age - I always feel weirdly reassured seeing celebrities falling pregnant around my age or older. I need to remember this when I get all panicky about my age!

Yesterday, I spent the day (when I should have been working) wallowing in my own self pity and decided to test one last time this morning with FMU. Low and behold - a faint (but noticeable) line. I suspect this will be another chemical and it seems identical to the line I got with my 1st chemical. I am not sure how I feel, but i'm not excited at all. I called the clinic this morning and explained and they've given me Cyclogest to boost my progesterone levels. Whats your thoughts, Atomic? I'll send the pic of the test to you now via email as i'm not sure I can upload.

@pinksabra101 you're so right! I think that makes it harder as I keep thinking if my age is playing a massive part in all this. Ive never had a chemical pre DD (I did have a MMC though so maybe its all related?) so it really makes me wonder if something else is at play here.

We are being plagued by these very faint "positives" that just never develop. Darker than a ghost line but not as dark as a faint positive should be. Some people are getting them for weeks, during times when they cannot possibly even be pregnant. It's almost as if they changed something about the manufacturing process (possibly due to coronavirus, since that's about the time it started) and that is causing these lines to appear. They aren't positives really and I don't count them as chemicals because like I said, people are getting them even when it's not possible for them to even be pregnant.

I agree that this test is likely not going to darken if you are truly 12 DPO. (Is there any way you could have ovulated later than you thought??) it's just that we can't know if it's really a positive or if it's one of these false positives, so I am not sure this is a chemical or simply one of these bum tests that have these lines on them.

Either way, I'm sorry, I don't think that if you're 12 DPO that this would indicate we're going to be successful this month.

@atomic According to FF, I should be 12dpo now (I had a CB peak on 16th Jan) so I guess at latest I could be 11dpo? Which still is a very light test. I usually have a 14 day LP. I'll give one more test a try tomorrow morning and if still uneventful, I just sack off this month and wait for AF.

Just out of interest, and lets say this was in-fact a chemical, would you have any insight that could cause 3 in a row?

Did you test this morning yet?

I was more thinking that maybe you didn't ovulate then, and ovulated a few days or even a week later, after you'd stopped testing, and had had unprotected sex at that time. One day would not make much of a difference really.

There are a couple things that can cause repeat chemicals - you'd want to have some basic testing done for clotting disorders, autoimmune stuff, and thyroid, for a start. Egg quality can cause chemicals but in that case you'd just need to wait for "Goldie the Golden Egg" to show up - even if you have some lower quality eggs, there will still be some good ones in the mix and you just need to wait for the right egg in that case.

Just wanted to provide an update: the tests did in fact get progressively darker, I was getting a teeny bit optimistic that maybe this.is.it but nope, the test today is much lighter so looks like another CP. Very very sad face - 3 in a row now :gloomy:

Oh gosh I'm so very sorry to hear that - I'd definitely pursue the testing in case there is something going on that could be easily fixed thru medication.

I had a good cry to my fertility nurse earlier on the phone - she (quite rightly) told me to stop testing and to come have a blood test on Monday to confirm numbers. So that’s what I’m doing. I’ll keep you updated! Have a lovely weekend x

Oh wow yes if they're willing to do that, by all means!!! Many of us (myself included) have doctors who will not do blood tests before a certain point but if yours is willing to do that then absolutely carry on!

I had my betas done today - 39 at 18dpo so whilst *technically* pregnant, this isn't a viable one. They wont test me until another cycle so i'm going to be in limbo for over another month or so. The general consensus from the clinic is 'well at least you can get pregnant' which isn't helpful, as I keep loosing them. They recommended trying again this month and didn't seem to think anything was at play, other than bad luck. Hmph.

Do you have any suggestions in the meantime? DH is on 500 OLE and I am on 400mg folate & 200mg ubiquonol daily.

Oh gosh, well, I hope eventually they are willing to do the testing.

I agree you should absolutely try again this month. Let's up folate to 1200 mcg and add in the lowest dose Vitamin D and B12 you can find once a week.

I started 10ug Vit D and 10ug B12 last night - today is now CD2 (hurrah!). Just to check all this with you:

1x Vit D & 1x B12 weekly
200mg ubiqunol daily
1200mg folate daily
500mg olive leaf extract daily (DH)

I spoke to my GP and I have a thyroid blood test next Friday so thats a positive. I'm wondering what your thoughts are on prolactin? I am so stumped as to why we keep having chemicals and am thinking of every possible thing that could be a cause.

I also wondered if I should take iron? When I fell with DD I was on low dose vits but I can't take them now as they have folic in them.

Also wondered if I should 'up' frequency? Or stick to the 1 attempt?

Unless your prolactin is elevated to the level of having a tumor on your pituitary gland, that is not the issue. I will say many doctors will say things like "breastfeeding causes losses" and will try to get you to quit, and will tell you things about prolactin but they're either being overly conservative based on things that they were told 100 years ago in medical school and then THINK they have seen (having a theory in need of evidence, basically) OR actually do not approve of women breastfeeding when pregnant and tailor their replies accordingly. I myself and tons of other women have successfully conceived while nursing and it is NOT considered a legitimate cause of chemical pregnancies any longer by most reputable sources.

If you'd like to take iron that is at your discretion. 18-60 mg 3x a week.

I would also ask about testing for clotting disorders. Clotting disorders are one of the main preventable causes of chemicals.

What kind of diet are you following? (sorry if you've already told me this!)

It's your choice about the frequency patterns. If you're ready to increase chance of conception, then by all means, but you are conceiving with one attempt so I wouldn't think that's the issue. Still, it can be nice to go in with a better chance of conception to be sure you don't have any chance of missing the egg.

That’s exactly why I ask - thank you for confirming! I don’t really want to wean DD as I think we both enjoy it but after doing a teeny bit of Googling, prolactin popped up so I thought I’d ask.

At the moment I’m wondering if it’s a) thyroid, b) clotting, c) progesterone or d) bad luck (which seems to be what the clinic and GP think - I’m not so sure!) I just think that the NK cells thingy would be unlikely as I’ve carried a term baby? So those are what I’m checking.

I am doing LE, skipping breakfast having home made soup and cheese sandwich for lunch and whatever for dinner. I’m not being too strict about it but I’m now adding in way more fruit.

That’s true - I just wonder if maybe DHs spermies are just too old by the time they get to the egg?

I have got back a heap of results from the GP regarding bloods. Can I run these by you please?

T4 = 13.5pmol/L (normal 9 - 22)
TSH = 1.49 mu/L (normal 0.35 - 5)

I have a heap of other results too but nothing relating to progesterone or clotting (I don't think?) All are in normal range but I know with fertility sometimes they need to be at a certain level.

TSH below 2 is what we want to see.

Your T4 is right in the middle of the road, and that together with good TSH really indicates to me everything is as it should be. The reason why they test those two things together is that you need to know both of them to tell what's going on. Because your TSH is good and your T4 is in normal range that likely means that your chemicals are not being caused by thyroid stuff.

I'm happy to go over anything and tell you what I think.

Thanks so much! Good to know the ‘ol thyroid is operating as it should (even though, it would have been good to find something to blame the chemicals on!). When I get further bloods ill send them to you but I don’t think the other bloods are that relevant (full blood count etc)

As long as you're not suffering from severe anemia or anything along those lines then yes you're right.

Hi Atomic! I promised once I had my blood clotting results back, I would update you. I have slightly raised Antithrombin III and have been advised to take Claxane from BFP (still BFN at 9dpo *sob*). My results are below. Do you know much about this? I can find lots on low levels but not so much on high.

Antithrombin III 131 ( 80-120 ) %
Antithrombin III Antigen 135 ( 73-129 ) %

That question is really above my pay grade, but I would strongly suggest seeking a second opinion. From what I am reading, HIGH antithrombin levels would indicate you're more prone to bleeding than a normal person, and taking Clexane would exacerbate that??? It is LOW antithrombin levels that would indicate injectable blood thinners.

I find this advice worrying without more explanation. It may be that it's one of those things where both high and low levels are bad (but that is not what I'm reading) and I would personally not proceed with this rather powerful medication without knowing more about why it was prescribed when it does not seem to be medically indicated.

Additionally, there are a couple medical reasons why a person might have high antithrombin III levels that should be thoroughly investigated, not just handwaved away with a prescription. I really really really think you need to go to a different doc (even if it's just a family physician) and ask them why you have been prescribed this medication.

Hi Atomic - i'm so sorry I didnt reply. I have only just seen this. Oh I TOTALLY agree with you. I couldn't find any information on high (ish) AIII so wont be taking anything without having another opinion. To me, it seems nuts that i'd take something to make my blood more thin if its already thin! I have a NHS consultant fertility appointment in June so I will be asking lots of questions then. Ive not been in the position to debate this as i've not had a BFP since my last in January :shrug:

Today seems to be CD1 of my next cycle (hence why i'm back here again and seen your message :wave:). I am at a loss as to what to do now. Its been 7 months since TTC with 3 chemicals thrown in there. I'm getting incredibly anxie about my age and wondering if thats the culprit. I'm getting CD3 bloods done this week and scheduling an appt with a gyno as i've started noticing i'm getting tender ovulation for a good few days which i'm not sure is normal. I'm pretty sure if I wasn't TTC I wouldn't notice it. The last 3 months was as follows:

Feb = BD CD10, CD12, CD15 (peak)
Mar =BD CD14, CD15 (peak) and CD17
April = BD10, CD12, CD14 (peak) - I did have 2 more OPK strip positives though.

I'm taking 1200mg folate, 200mg ubiqunol, 15mg zinc, 15mg iron and 10mg vit d every other day (only started the last 3 recently). I've cut down to 1 coffee and 1 decaf a day (I literally cant cut down more as I neeeeed the caffine). Is there anything thats standing out that needs changing? Ive also switched almond milk to full fat milk in my coffees.

No not at all, remember it's my job to get back to you, not the other way around!

100% agree and I'm at a loss to understand why that would have been recommended.

Can you explain what you mean when you say "tender ovulation"? You mean you're having more O-related pains?? That is actually normal to have for many days, even if you haven't had it in the past. I am absolutely plagued by O pains, have been ever since I was quite young, and sometimes I've had soreness from CD 3 straight through till even a few days after ovulation. Some of us are just more sensitive than others and though it's strange, sometimes you're more sensitive to pain than other times in your life. It's as if you start feeling things that were always there.

Are these dates the days you had sex? When did your period come in relation to the days you had peak? By "peak" do you mean the first positive OPK, or the darkest?

Thank you for understanding! I really do appreciate your help!

Tender as in I can feel the build up - feels like wind (its not one sided like I used to get at O) and pelvis feels sore to touch. Once O happens, it gradually goes away over a few days, I don't get these pains during my period or any other time of my cycle. I had a c-section with my little one so i'm wondering if it could be adhesions? Or maybe its normal?

By peak I mean static on CB fertility wotsits (not the big monitor). I do loosely use OPKs but once I've got CB peak, thats what I use mainly.Those are the days we are having sex in fertile period. CB monitor peak for Feb and March was CD16 and for April CD15 if that helps?

Whoops sorry - my mistake on dates.

CB monitor peak for Feb and March was CD15 and for April CD14. I have 30 days cycles so 14 days between O and my period.

No no, that sounds exactly like O-Pains to me. That is just what my O pains feel like, and I've never had a c-section. Adhesions are generally more painful during your period, not around O (which makes sense because of course the lining is sloughing off at that time)

:agree: ok great. Some of the apps have this terrible information on them where they claim that "peak" happens at the DARKEST OPK, but that simply isn't true and is not the way that anyone involved in NFP in the past (or reputable sources in the here and now) has ever used the term.

Is there anything else you can recommend to help conceive? I have been having acupuncture the past 3 cycles and a bit worried that is why I’m not falling pregnant. I’ve noticed my hormones have been way more noticeable than usual.

I also have noticed that I seem to fall pregnant on the day before peak but not on peak day alone. Is this a thing?!

Also good to know about ovulation pains - I’m hoping it is just ovulation craziness as I never had it pre DD!

What do you mean your hormones have been way more noticeable?

We've noticed that with O pains, a LOT of us have them more strongly as we get older. So it feels like we have something going wrong, but it's just a natural change that many of us experience after a certain age (for me, I never had them till I was about 25 then they got absolutely terrible during my 30's and 40's, and have largely waned the last 2 years since I've been 50, even tho I still have a cycle. But everyone's pattern seems to be uniquely their own.

No, there's no reason why anyone would only get pregnant the day before peak and not the day of. Plus, the peak can vary wildly as to the time it comes prior to ovulation, so there'd not be any set way of knowing when your attempt and your peak came in relation to the egg being released. (your ovaries do not know what a line on a stick is doing!) It's probably just a coincidence. But if you're ready to be adding attempts, I'd absolutely then plan on having attempt the day before you expect OPK and then the day of.

I have actually just had a couple people who have been doing acupuncture and then mysteriously not conceiving (in one case for over a year). While I honestly do not think it does anything at all (the studies claiming that it did were sketchy, sponsored by the industry), if it ~were~ to have some effect, surely it could have a negative effect as well as a positive one, say if the individual practitioner was less expert or the technique they had been trained in has actually been mistaken all along, OR (and there's a lot of things in this category like herbs) where it's the type of thing that may help some people, for instance PCOSers, while actually hindering chances of conceiving for others. Since it's not needed and lifts right out, by all means I would certainly consider dropping it and seeing what happened.

How long are you laying flat?

Have you guys been attempting to have shallow release?

Hubby doing anything like jogging or biking, wearing tight underwear, been doing a lot of driving around where he's sitting for long periods?

Ok, so I've reread this thread now, are you guys still doing FR or have you dropped it?

Any antihistamine, douching, jelly?

Herbal supplements, either on your own or given to you by the acupuncturist?

Well for the last 3 months, i've noticed lots more symptoms (i.e. stronger O pains, breast tenderness, general PMS symptoms) and the only thing i've changed is acupuncture. Ive also noticed the O pains starting after having the acupuncture. Could be totally coincidental but usually (even when getting a bfp) I don't get much in terms of symptoms. I was taking aspirin for cycles in Feb and March and wowzers - my period was horrible. Stopped this month and totally normal again. So the only thing thats changed is acupuncture. What do you think? I have an appointment for next Weds but wondering if I should sack it off this cycle to see if there is a difference.

Thats very true about peak / day before peak. I will try for the day before and day of peak in that case. I also was given a ovusense (unused!!) yesterday. Do you have much insight into these? I'm fairly regular so not sure it will help tbh. I use clear blue and strips and they seem to be fairly consistent at pin pointing a surge and then I get my period 14 days later.

In answer to your question:

2 months we conceived was when that was at 1 attempt (I don't think DH had done his business in a while either so was likely old sperm). 1 month was every 3 days. No FR. Not taking any herbal sups from acupuncturist or elsewhere. Only taking 1200mg folate, 200mg ubiqunol, 15mg zinc, 15mg iron and 10ug vit d (reluctantly). Last cycle I used a finger tip of preseed just to get things going but not inside. Lying flat for 20-30mins. No to shallow release. DH wears loose boxers, doesn't run but does play football / tennis but he drives to work which is an hour each way.

Thank you for your help, Atomic. I really do appreciate it x

Yep that's the thing with the aspirin - it really wreaks havoc with people's periods (interestingly, people can also see shockingly less flow, when their body "thinks" "oh gosh, something is horribly wrong, our blood is too thin, let's really ramp up production of blood clotting factors!) Both too thin blood and blood that is too thick can cause major problems throughout the body. We saw this all the time on Ingender when people were taking very high doses, this weird dichotomy with some people having massive, terrifying flows, and others having very scanty flows and the aspirin/cranberry was causing both of them.

Anyway, this is why it's so important to wean off them, because going from having your blood too thick or too thin, then suddenly stopping the thing that's causing it can make your body go into a complete state of confusion, and your blood might start clotting too easily.

Weirdly, aspirin actually can cause increased O symptoms because whenever your blood is thin, you can have more swelling and fluid released when you are ovulating. Bleeding is bleeding, and if you release an egg and bleed more than normal when that happens, absolutely that can cause pain. The swelling of your ovaries might be worse too. My inclination is for you to drop the acupuncture just because it's not doing anything and may even be hindering, but in terms of symptoms my gut is that it was still the aspirin, and it possibly took some time through April to work itself out. I will absolutely be interested to hear if the symptoms cleared up or lessened after you've stopped acupuncture, though - I by no means have it all figured out, and like we said before, if it's actually doing anything, then it may have bigger effects than just survace level.

Has your husband ever had a sperm analysis?

Be sure to spend part of the time you're laying down on your tummy. We've seen that make a difference for people.

Its true, my periods were horrible! I defo wont be using aspirin again unless medically told its necessary. It didn't help anyway so no point in continuing it. OK I agree, I will contact her and cancel for next week and see what happens in terms of symptoms.

We haven't. no. We have an appointment in June so I reckon all that will be done then. He's not exactly jumping up and down to have it tested though! Just out of interest, is there any recommendations you have if it is actually a sperm issue in terms of vitamins etc to help?

Yes I'd put him on Men's One a Day, total of 1000 IU Vit. D, 500 mg arginine, 1000 mg carnitine, and 100 mg coq10.

NOTE - the first time I replied, I accidentally wrote arginine twice. It's corrected now.

Thanks Atomic, i'm going to grab those from the health shop today. I also got my day 3 bloods back, would you be able to advise? No worries if this outside of your paygrade but thought i'd run these past you rather than trying to make sense via google! I did these with one of those online blood test thingies.

TSH has come back at 2.83 mu/l which i'm surprised at, in Jan it was 1.5. So this needs looking into again with the GP.
FSH = 8 iu/l
LH = 8.5 iu/l (not sure if this is a problem as its not lower than FSH?)
Estrogen = 132 pmol/l
Prolactin = 844 mu/l which is a bit high but i'm breastfeeding still so assume its down to that?

I'd absolutely have the thyroid doublechecked.

FSH - lower than 15, all good.
LH - they're still in close range, with PCOS we'd see that much higher and I'd not worry about that unless you have cause to worry
Estrogen - A bit low but that's from the high prolactin
Prolactin - Yes, that's a bit high. Rather than just assuming it's breastfeeding, I think they should check for a pituitary tumor (please don't panic, it's a super common finding and is not fatal or harmful, and they can give you medicaiton that will lower that).