Gotta ask: what's with the yogurt?

[JJ66]

Hey all, if anyone knows: I'm just curious why full fat yogurt is such a strong recommendation on the LE PCOS diet. Is it the calcium, the protein or a just a good general way to get enough fat?

My concerns are that 1.) Most full fat yogurts seem to have a lot of sugar. Like 12-25 grams. Isn't that bad for PCOS? 2.) I used to eat full fat yogurt every day during all my boy-conceiving years. I know it's not necessarily related, but makes me nervous. It seems to me like a "superfood" - and so nutrient-dense that I could eat is as a meal. And when swaying pink, I feel like nutrient dense isn't exactly what we're going for -- at least not on a daily basis.

While I'm here, may as well ask why garlic supposedly sways blue. I know we can still have it on the LE diets, but I've read that it helps regulate blood sugar levels. Do we want that on the LE/PCOS? I think we want to keep them low...we def don't want them spiking up and down. Is regulating blood sugar a good thing when swaying pink? That part always confuses me!

[atomic sagebrush]

Full fat DAIRY one serving a day is the recommendation. it is not yogurt. Could be cheese, full fat milk, sour cream, even butter. Yogurt is fine if people like it.

THe reason is twofold - firstly because many people on the alternate diet are not on it for PCOS but are on it for other fertility issues and dairy fat is the shizz for fertility, while skim milk is actively bad for fertility (and both these claims are proven in studis). Plus, those with PCOS, skim dairy is the Devil. It is terrible for your PCO. Skim dairy is WORSE than sugar for aggravating PCO tendencies. So skim dairy is actively bad for EVERYONE on the PCOS diet and I want all of you on full fat dairy ONLY period, end of story, and 1 serving full fat dairy a day has been exceedingly helpful for lots and lots of people who are not getting preggo otherwise - either from low estrogen (those dieting too hard, too long) or from low progesterone (PCOSers) because your body uses the fat in full fat dairy to make estrogen and progesterone with. As long as you're not loading up on too many bad carbs, your body won't make testosterone from that fat, it will make estrogen and progesterone which everyone on the alt. diets need.

Sorry gotta break this into two, my computer is being a brat today

[atomic sagebrush]

There are no super foods. There is the nutrient content of your diet as a whole and full fat dairy has a function here and a place in your diet on the alt. diet. Literally everyone is doing it on the alt. diet and the results have been BETTER than the people doing skim dairy on the standard diet so I can promise it's not undermining anyone's sway to include 1 serv. full fat dairy a day.

Garlic is supposed to raise testosterone and thus has been avoided on the LE Diet in all its many forms. Do I really think it's super necessary to avoid? Nah. But you don't technically NEED garlic and so whenever it is possible to leave something out (oats fall into this category as well) I figure, why not. There are 10,987,654,321 foods out there that are said to "lower blood sugar" or regulate it and we do NOT need to eat all of them or even ANY of them because the entire alternate "Slow Burn" LE Diet is designed to keep blood sugar in a good range for PCOSers and everyone else too for that matter. We don't need to hunt down magic foods because there are too many magic foods to possibly include in a sensible diet and no one's successful sway ever hinged on magic foods anyway.

It is impossible to keep your blood sugar low because your body doesn't like low blood sugar. We say "low blood sugar" as a quick shorthand way to describe the process by which, when your blood sugar drops, your body burns stores of fat to raise blood sugar back to a normal range. So yeah, we actually DO want to "regulate" our blood sugar (BTW - "regulating" blood sugar is one of those meaningless terms like "balancing" hormones...these things are meant to always be in a state of constant flux and people say stuff like that basically to sell herbs with) for PCOSers. Why? Because with PCOS, your blood sugar is not so good at dropping. For most of us, we eat something sweet/carby and our blood sugar goes high, then we release a shot of insulin and it drops (con't next post sorry)

[atomic sagebrush]

And it usually drops TOO far and we end up with low blood sugar, shaky, feeling crappy, then we burn those stores of fat to raise it again (the process for which we use "low blood sugar" as shorthand). But for PCOSers your body is less sensitive to the insulin and so your blood sugar stays up for longer after you eat carbs/sugar than others do. You want that to improve, to have better insulin response and so if you want to call that "regulate blood sugar" then yes, we want that. We don't want your blood sugar to go up high and stay up high because it's bad for your health, your fertility, and your sway when that happens.

Now this is not carte blanche to now go out and eat a bunch of garlic to "regulate" blood sugar. You will do yourself far more good by avoiding skim dairy since it's actively bad for your blood sugar than by eating garlic to "regulate" blood sugar (if it even works, which I kind of doubt since I know plenty of folks who have Type 2 diabetes and eat it at every meal)

Best bet for all this stuff is to eat somewhat more protein and GOOD fat (like full fat dairy), cut back somewhat on carbs all together but particularly sugar, skim dairy, and white flour, and exercise.

[JJ66]

Thank you for this wealth of information! I really appreciate the time to explain it.

So to break it down: one serving for full fat dairy (any dairy other than whole milk) because it helps my PCOS-ish body make estrogen and progesterone, which is good because it's not doing a good job of that otherwise. And it's dairy fat that I want specifically for that function.

For the garlic, it's known to raise testosterone, which may sway blue. Got it.

And re: blood sugar..."low" blood sugar essentially means the place we want our bodies to be, b/c it uses the stores of fat when in that state. When it's "high" (which is where PCOS-ish people tend to stay), we're not burning it efficiently. And the goal here is to burn fat and lose weight. Is that semi-right?

Makes sense for the times in my life where I could NOT lose weight despite working out and dieting constantly. But I'm guessing it's a condition that ebbs and flows, because the last several years, I've been very petite, don't really watch what I eat, snack, etc, and stay in the 100LB range. I guess I'm one of the "skinny PCOS-ers".

That's what makes this diet extra challenging for me. I probably won't lose weight (I'm at 18.5 BMI as it is) and around 98LBS. I'm already a light eater, so I'm afraid the only place weight-wise from here is up.

[atomic sagebrush]

You can have full fat milk too. Any full fat dairy. It is not only (or even mostly) because of the progesterone but also because skim dairy is horrible for blood sugar and will aggravate your PCOS.

No, the goal is not to necessarily lose weight, it is to force your body to burn off stores of fat to keep your blood sugar in normal range. Your body does not want high or low blood sugar and takes steps to correct that. Whatever it is about having low blood sugar that forces your body to burn fat to elevate it into normal range, seems to sway pink. This is true even if you don't lose a single ounce of weight. PCOSers need to be more careful with their blood sugar because it tends to stay higher longer.

You must not lose any weight. You need to hold steady where you are and not lose anything. You're already at my minimum cutoff for TTC and if you go below that you risk stopping ovulation. Weight loss has not been very predictive of whose sways work out. Time on diet is much more predictive of success, so you need to do whatever it takes to allow your body to have enough time on diet without risking ovulation by losing too much weight Iin your case ANY)

There are a lot of factors that come into play about how severe PCO is at any given point in time. Yes, it can ebb and flow because there are a lot of things that come into play in terms of severity. If you're thin and have always been thin, right away you are going to have less symptoms than a person who is overweight because it helps keep you more responsive to insulin (even if you do have skinny PCOS).

[MrsEnglish]

Full fat DAIRY one serving a day is the recommendation. it is not yogurt. Could be cheese, full fat milk, sour cream, even butter. Yogurt is fine if people like it.

THe reason is twofold - firstly because many people on the alternate diet are not on it for PCOS but are on it for other fertility issues and dairy fat is the shizz for fertility, while skim milk is actively bad for fertility (and both these claims are proven in studis). Plus, those with PCOS, skim dairy is the Devil. It is terrible for your PCO. Skim dairy is WORSE than sugar for aggravating PCO tendencies. So skim dairy is actively bad for EVERYONE on the PCOS diet and I want all of you on full fat dairy ONLY period, end of story, and 1 serving full fat dairy a day has been exceedingly helpful for lots and lots of people who are not getting preggo otherwise - either from low estrogen (those dieting too hard, too long) or from low progesterone (PCOSers) because your body uses the fat in full fat dairy to make estrogen and progesterone with. As long as you're not loading up on too many bad carbs, your body won't make testosterone from that fat, it will make estrogen and progesterone which everyone on the alt. diets need.

Sorry gotta break this into two, my computer is being a brat today

When I got pregnant with my daughter I was having exactly one serving of whole milk a day, and no reduced fat milk. Unfortunately, now I am addicted to my caffeinated whey protein drink. I think I'll allow myself to keep having it for this cycle, and if I don't get pregnant, then next cycle I'll go back to full fat only.

Question: if one cup of whole milk a day is good for fertility, would a few cups be even better? When you say one cup a day, is that at minimum? If I were to drink 3 cups of whole milk a day, but still keep my calories low, would that be better for me fertility wise?

[JJ66]

You can have full fat milk too. Any full fat dairy. It is not only (or even mostly) because of the progesterone but also because skim dairy is horrible for blood sugar and will aggravate your PCOS.

No, the goal is not to necessarily lose weight, it is to force your body to burn off stores of fat to keep your blood sugar in normal range. Your body does not want high or low blood sugar and takes steps to correct that. Whatever it is about having low blood sugar that forces your body to burn fat to elevate it into normal range, seems to sway pink. This is true even if you don't lose a single ounce of weight. PCOSers need to be more careful with their blood sugar because it tends to stay higher longer.

You must not lose any weight. You need to hold steady where you are and not lose anything. You're already at my minimum cutoff for TTC and if you go below that you risk stopping ovulation. Weight loss has not been very predictive of whose sways work out. Time on diet is much more predictive of success, so you need to do whatever it takes to allow your body to have enough time on diet without risking ovulation by losing too much weight Iin your case ANY)

There are a lot of factors that come into play about how severe PCO is at any given point in time. Yes, it can ebb and flow because there are a lot of things that come into play in terms of severity. If you're thin and have always been thin, right away you are going to have less symptoms than a person who is overweight because it helps keep you more responsive to insulin (even if you do have skinny PCOS).

I guess then my question is why is dairy beneficial for pink? I understand full fat vs skim (and skim=bad). But is there something about dairy in general that's good for swaying pink?

I honestly don't think I could lose weight if I tried. Also, I've already recently learned that I'm not ovulating (not sure when that happened, because I've been petite throughout my childbearing years and haven't had trouble conceiving), hence the new Clomid presription.

Really just trying to do my best on the diet for the next 8-12 weeks (before I start taking Clomid) and just NOT gain weight.

[atomic sagebrush]

I guess then my question is why is dairy beneficial for pink? I understand full fat vs skim (and skim=bad). But is there something about dairy in general that's good for swaying pink?

I honestly don't think I could lose weight if I tried. Also, I've already recently learned that I'm not ovulating (not sure when that happened, because I've been petite throughout my childbearing years and haven't had trouble conceiving), hence the new Clomid presription.

Really just trying to do my best on the diet for the next 8-12 weeks (before I start taking Clomid) and just NOT gain weight.

I don't think dairy IS good for pink. That's what some people claim, but it's never been studied properly and most of the "evidence" that they use to support the claim is bogus upon closer inspection.

Keep doing what you're doing. The weight loss has not mattered much if at all so don't sweat that. Clomid is a great pink sway tactic.

[atomic sagebrush]

When I got pregnant with my daughter I was having exactly one serving of whole milk a day, and no reduced fat milk. Unfortunately, now I am addicted to my caffeinated whey protein drink. I think I'll allow myself to keep having it for this cycle, and if I don't get pregnant, then next cycle I'll go back to full fat only.

Question: if one cup of whole milk a day is good for fertility, would a few cups be even better? When you say one cup a day, is that at minimum? If I were to drink 3 cups of whole milk a day, but still keep my calories low, would that be better for me fertility wise?

Yes it's at minimum one serving of full fat dairy a day for fertility. The issue becomes at some point, extra full fat dairy will possibly sway blue and additionally you'll use up quite a lot of your protein/fat allotment, then what do you eat the rest of the day?? 3 cups of full fat dairy will have 24 g protein and then you only have like another 25 g for all the rest of your food intake for the day. Just makes it a bit more challenging - not impossible but more challenging.