The thing I wonder about timing..

[EnglishDame]

Having read loads on this site about timing and understanding that the old age belief of 'boy sperm are fast, girl sperm are slow' is a load of nonsense, the timing thing confuses me. It's something I'm scared not to try since there are so many people that swear they had girls after a 3/4/5 day cut off.
I understand it doesn't work for everybody and lots (including you Atomic) have timing opposites, but isn't that the same with lots of the sway tactics?

Could it be that timing doesn't sway because of which sperm can get to the egg in what time, but more just that there won't be as much sperm around when ovulation occurs, therefore lowering sperm count as such?

Sorry if this has been covered, just wondering whether to do it as part of our sway!

[jdd1017]

After a lot of information on this forum we didn't do cutoff either this time, I swayed pretty hard for a girl, but I am pregnant with a boy. I followed the LE diet, lost 15-18 lbs, cardio 60 min a day, took clomid and femara, I feel like I had such a strong sway. The one thing we didn't do was one attempt, because it was our 4th month on fertility meds and I just wanted to get pregnant. I wish we would have done just one attempt now, BUT I have many times wondered if maybe there IS something true to timing as well. If we sway again, I will def do a cutoff of 3-4 days. Considering that was about the only thing I didn't do this time I just feel like it is worth a shot. So I guess that doesn't answer your question, but I wanted to let you know that I've wondered the same thing as you many times!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[lucyandboys]

I think what they're saying is that cut off can work (if you're sufficiently fertile) but that more than one attempt in fertile period (which you can't really tell, because you don't know how long they hang around) can sway boy?

My ds3 was conceived with 3 day cut off, but multiple attempts prior to that.

[onelastsway]

For what it's worth and this is only my thoughts....I think timing can have an impact along with other stuff. I agree there is much more to it (hence all the opposites) but look at the 4 day cutoff stats - 14 out of 16 got girls. I think it sways because, as you say, there is less sperm hanging around and in a sense, is a way to lower fertility (swaying pink) and that often you have less EWCM at that time (if that is something that is relevant to you). I will be doing a cut off and one attempt - well, more clearly, I will be dtd when I don't have EWCM wherever that falls in my cycle. I got both my boys with lots of EWCM and two or more attempts in the fertile window. I don't think 2-3 days often works as this is often when you have lots of EWCM and still a very fertile time. That is the problem with a long cutoff - very unlikely to get pregnant. If i don't get pregnant for several months - I will have to reconsider this.

[foxtrotmama]

I think it's the one attempt thing. One attempt gets very good results, and if you have a cut off there's only one attempt in the fertile period. But, it drastically lowers the chances of getting pregnant so I wouldn't do it if actively TTC.

[atomic sagebrush]

It's because people don't know when they ovulated and assume they had to have had a cutoff when they didn't. We know this for a fact because even experts cannot pin down ovulation to the day any greater than one in 3 times. Ovulation moves around and so when people think they BD 5 days before O and conceived, the odds are very great that they did not.

There was just a recent study that came out in May of this year that went back through the old Shettles and other people's timing studies and using modern technology, found that most of the data they had used had completely miscalculated the day people had ovulated. So even the studies that claimed to show it worked, it turns out they didn't work. Many of them had people just BD on CD 11 for a girl and 14 for a boy. This same study found that the odds of conceiving 4,5 6 days before ovulation were quite slim, even 3 days before O is a long shot, and again, most of the people who will tell you they got pregnant BD on these days are mistaken. They ovulated early the vast majority of the time.

You guys are always welcome to do timing if you like. But the people who say timing sways, are saying timing in and of itself, no other factors, is what is swaying gender. We know that this simply cannot be true, because studies prove it, our results prove it, and Dr. Shettles was frankly wrong in his claims that X sperm live a long time and Y sperm don't.

I am no longer convinced about the numbers of sperm in and of themselves. Maybe, maybe not. I can't wrap my brain around if sperm numbers are really swaying, why are we getting neutral or worse than neutral results with things like jellies and antihistamines and frequency (all of which are meant to lower sperm numbers) if it's sperm numbers. Makes me think it ISN"T sperm numbers at all. So no, I can't sign off on the idea that timing = lower sperm numbers = swaying. We do know one attempt is swaying for reasons we can only guess at, and so I am not willing to sign off on the sperm numbers thing when it may be sperm communication or some other thing entirely.

If timing was harmless I would be fine with you guys playing with it indefinitely. The reason why I am so down on it, is a separate issue - it's because it cuts odds of conception to next to nothing, and then people who go on month after month after month with BFN, lose too much weight (or gain it for blue swayers) risk ovulation, and end up in a panic, dropping everything and doing whatever it takes just to get pregnant at all. This is a huge mistake to start off doing things that cannot possibly sway, sway for months/years, only to drop everything and end up swaying blue just to conceive.

[atomic sagebrush]

For what it's worth and this is only my thoughts....I think timing can have an impact along with other stuff. I agree there is much more to it (hence all the opposites) but look at the 4 day cutoff stats - 14 out of 16 got girls. I think it sways because, as you say, there is less sperm hanging around and in a sense, is a way to lower fertility (swaying pink) and that often you have less EWCM at that time (if that is something that is relevant to you). I will be doing a cut off and one attempt - well, more clearly, I will be dtd when I don't have EWCM wherever that falls in my cycle. I got both my boys with lots of EWCM and two or more attempts in the fertile window. I don't think 2-3 days often works as this is often when you have lots of EWCM and still a very fertile time. That is the problem with a long cutoff - very unlikely to get pregnant. If i don't get pregnant for several months - I will have to reconsider this.

When researchers actually used technology to pin down the day that people had sex in relation to their ovulation, 4,5,6 days before O were not very likely to end in conception. I think you need to take with a very great grain of salt the reported statistics in regards to timing because we cannot know when people actually ovulated in relation to their one attempt.

If I had not had sex when I had EWCM I would not have a daughter today.

I say this not to deter anyone from choosing whatever means of swaying they'd like. Just that I want you guys to go in to this fully informed instead of continuing to do things that do not work and have been debunked as much as it is possible for something to BE debunked.

[atomic sagebrush]

After a lot of information on this forum we didn't do cutoff either this time, I swayed pretty hard for a girl, but I am pregnant with a boy. I followed the LE diet, lost 15-18 lbs, cardio 60 min a day, took clomid and femara, I feel like I had such a strong sway. The one thing we didn't do was one attempt, because it was our 4th month on fertility meds and I just wanted to get pregnant. I wish we would have done just one attempt now, BUT I have many times wondered if maybe there IS something true to timing as well. If we sway again, I will def do a cutoff of 3-4 days. Considering that was about the only thing I didn't do this time I just feel like it is worth a shot. So I guess that doesn't answer your question, but I wanted to let you know that I've wondered the same thing as you many times!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

There seems to be a theoretical upper window of sway success. Let's be conservative say it's 80% (probably more like 65-70 but we'll just say 80%) That means that still 20% of people with "perfect" sways would still get boys.

You are absolutely welcome to use whatever sway tactics you want to, but you cannot base your sway decisions on the expectation that swaying is ever supposed to be 100% for people; if only we could figure out some magic way to do it that we'll then be guaranteed a child of a certain gender. It may very well be that diet + exercise + Clomid + X number of attempts = 80% theoretical ceiling and then adding timing onto that would then, still, yield 80% theoretical ceiling. Plus, adding timing would not only not help success rates, it would actually LOWER them because too many people would then stop ovulating (meaning that they would have to in essence sway blue just in order to get pregnant again) and/or that they'd give up on swaying totally.

I am down on timing not because I am trying to keep things from you guys or trying to be "right". I am down on timing because after watching people sway successfully and not so for nearly 9 years now, I have witnessed firsthand that the more people focus on stuff that doesn't work and go on and on and on not getting pregnant, that the results are disasterous for sways overall. People stop ovulating and have to sway blue just to get pregnant, and/or they end up panicky over too many BFN and give up swaying overall. This leads to WORSE results, not better ones.

Swaying is not a perfectable enterprise because there has to be a luck component to it. If there wasn't, the whole human race would have died out a long time ago.

[EnglishDame]

Thanks so much for everyone's replies, really appreciate the insight!

[onelastsway]

When researchers actually used technology to pin down the day that people had sex in relation to their ovulation, 4,5,6 days before O were not very likely to end in conception. I think you need to take with a very great grain of salt the reported statistics in regards to timing because we cannot know when people actually ovulated in relation to their one attempt.

If I had not had sex when I had EWCM I would not have a daughter today.

I say this not to deter anyone from choosing whatever means of swaying they'd like. Just that I want you guys to go in to this fully informed instead of continuing to do things that do not work and have been debunked as much as it is possible for something to BE debunked.

I'm sure you are right. You've looked at all this in a lot more detail than me. I just personally wouldn't feel comfortable with dtd when I have loads of EWCM as that's what i did with my boys. I see I was also on a very blue diet and am so thankful to this site for showing me this and also didn't drink coffee or really alcohol. Like I say I'm not so fussed about exact timing - more when I have the EWCM - I recognise I need some but for a couple of days each cycle I have a LOT so I would avoid these two to three days - they may not even be when I ovulate so not exactly timing and if I don't get pregnant for a couple of months I will reconsider this as would like to get off the diet asap so I do get that it's not a good idea to go ages doing timing when it probably has no effect!! Thanks for all the advice.