this whole swaying thing...!

[atomic sagebrush]

I'm sorry, I'm not trying to discourage you in any way. In the past, sometimes people have had hurt feelings reading that it's "easier" to sway for one or the other, so I just wanted to put it out there that they BOTH have challenges but those challenges can be overcome.

[lindi]

Thanks. I must say the more I learn, the more I am lost.

[lindi]

UPDATE: had a serious talk with DH tonight and brought up IVF PGD for the first time. He said sure. He was a little spiritually concerned, so that sure was with a bit more thinking on his part, but I ran some of the numbers by him in terms of success getting pg naturally in 3 cycles at my age, and how the place I am looking at online suggests a 12 probe- meaning a LOT of abnormal embryos will be eliminated from the picture without the uncertainty of what did we do creating all these embryos. It also way ups the likelihood of a baby sticking, which kind of beats the odds at natural conception. This clinic has a 45% success rate with women my age, and that beats trying naturally. I'm just thinking about it. The big question is really would the timing work out. It might if we did it right away. I wish I had more time. For us, the money lost would be sad but not devastating. And I get excited about the certainty of gender, and the lowered risk of birth defects.
I feel like I am losing faith in swaying. In a way I can imagine being more relaxed about the IVF than the sway- its all in somebody else's hands not mine. Let me know what you ladies think. I just feel like this swaying thing has confused me, scared me, and...if IVF doesn't work I can always revisit it? Who knows, it may be my only option. That's where I'm at. Too much testosterone and proud of it.

[atomic sagebrush]

lindi, I think you need to do whatever makes you feel the most comfortable. Just the fact that you're uptight and stressed about it, makes me concerned, KWIM??? I have seen it happen too many times, where the pink swayers who get obsessive and worked up over swaying, asking tons of questions and doing a lot of research, are the ones who get opposites (myself included). Is that universal? NO. Babydust asked tons of questions, got obsessed, did tons of research, and still got her DG.

I"m sorry I don't have all the answers with swaying. No one does. There are other people out there who will make promises about swaying but they're lying or misinformed. There is not any way to 100% guarantee a baby's gender short of PGD. That having been said, some people don't care that much about opposites or do not have the option of doing HT and those people are who should be swaying. If you care greatly (as you seem to) and have the means, I would seriously consider HT.

Whatever you're confused about, PLEASE ask me to elaborate. I have been living and breathing swaying for so long that I may assume people understand what I'm saying but I've left something out.

You really need to look at the 12 probe and ask a lot of q's on the high tech board because that may not be the best way to go. You may end up eliminating viable embies and not to sound like a negative Nellie but you may not even GET many to start with. Even some young people have not responded well to the drugs.

[lindi]

I've read a bunch that the most naturally fertile woman can be the worst responders to the stims. I know that at my age, most of my eggs will be bad. I know that one shot at IVF the odds are even against me. I get all that. I'll have no embryos, I won;t respond, I'll pick the wrong tests, have a lousy embryologist, etc- But that STILL seems more hopeful.
I just feel like it's hopeless for me to sway. I think I feel discouraged by just what you wrote, Atomic, and your essay about testosterone. The whole Valerie Grant theory about high testosterone women having more boys makes me downright depressed, like it totally kills my dream. Hearing that because I want to learn about all of this stuff makes me way less likely to have a girl has honestly almost made me cry. I give up when I hear that. It's true- I really love learning about things, I love theoretical physics, I am fascinated by chemistry and I am a bit of a nerd. I often wish I had become a doctor or a scientist. In reality, my profession is a nurturing one, so I guess I get my nerd outlet through reading. That's something I never thought would get in the way of having a daughter. I know that's me- my whole life I've been passionate and focused on things just in this same way.
And then learning about how things like my chin hair and that high Test. test years back = BOYS made me feel so unfeminine because having chin hairs is probably the most unfeminine thing I can imagine anyways, something which is obviously embarrassing, something clearly masculine- and I guess it made me feel even more embarrassed about that. It really did a number on me and my confidence with swaying to think my whole PERSONALITY- things I used to cherish about myself, were the very things in the way of having a daughter. To hear that I should stop asking questions stop learning if I want this thing to work- how can I take that? Stop being me if I want to have a daughter? It makes me feel insanely jealous of my mom, my grandma, great grandma, great aunts, other grandma- between them all only 2 boys and 10 girls. How could I come from DNA like that and have all this T?
I guess I went into this thinking I had a 50% chance of a girl and I could even up that to like 70%. That was fine. But now I feel like I'm going into this having like, a 20% chance of a girl and I would raise it by swaying to only like 30%. That's how it feels. If you see it differently for me, let me know. I'm writing this almost with tears. Its very discouraging.

[atomic sagebrush]

Lindi, please understand that it's not that it gets in the way and that you therefore need to change who you are because of it. Those questioning aspects are what makes you YOU and I am EXACTLY the same way right down to the chin hair. It's just that it can be indicative of a type of person who ~may~ have a harder, more challenging go of it with swaying. In no way am I trying to deter you from asking questions or change your personality. I really really like your personality and I am so very sorry if I hurt your feelings in any way. I just don't want to pump you up with misleading information and guarantees that I cannot offer, and set you up for a fall. They do that on other boards, then they pick apart the person's sway when it fails and blame them for it.

I realized this BEFORE I swayed. I knew it wasn't 50-50 for me, I swayed to GET to 50-50 and I figured at that point I would take the flip of the coin. I never aspired to 70% and I don't know if any of us should. But no one warned me that getting too obsessive about swaying could actually RAISE my testosterone levels and I am certain it actually hurt my sway. I want you to have a better sway than me and in order to do that, I want you to let go a little bit of the control aspect and just learn to roll with it. It's not hopeless, it's never hopeless, if it was hopeless the human race would have died out a long time ago!

In nature, even in recent history, we ALL would have ended up having kids of both genders eventually. Our testosterone levels would have fluctuated naturally over the course of time with changing seasons and diet and we would have had boys and girls. It's just nowadays with our modern diets, modern lifestyles, and desire to only have two children, it is HARDER for some of us than it is others. Our bodies size up our situations and think we are large and in charge and that our sons will be capable of spreading our genes around better, so we have sons. That's all. It's not any kind of personal judgement, it's just biology.

My grandma was one of 6 girls and two boys and I have two sisters, two girl cousins, and my brother was the only boy in the mix. But in this generation, we have all boys and only one girl! Genetics aren't cut and dry like you're thinking of them, there IS NO boy gene or girl gene. I will write some about genetics to try and explain what I mean when I say genetic factors.

There is nothing less feminine about having higher testosterone levels. Psychologists have studied in and found NO difference in the attractiveness of women with higher testosterone and lower testosterone. Believe me, I have 4 sons and in NO WAY am I saying women with boys are less feminine, less sexy, less anything in any way or I would be insulting MYSELF! Valerie Grant has 3 sons herself.

Again, I'm so, so very sorry for hurting your feelings, it's difficult to express a train of thought properly sometimes via writing. I hope you can forgive me. ♥

[lindi]

Lindi, please understand that it's not that it gets in the way and that you therefore need to change who you are because of it. Those questioning aspects are what makes you YOU and I am EXACTLY the same way right down to the chin hair. It's just that it can be indicative of a type of person who ~may~ have a harder, more challenging go of it with swaying. In no way am I trying to deter you from asking questions or change your personality. I really really like your personality and I am so very sorry if I hurt your feelings in any way. I just don't want to pump you up with misleading information and guarantees that I cannot offer, and set you up for a fall. They do that on other boards, then they pick apart the person's sway when it fails and blame them for it.

I realized this BEFORE I swayed. I knew it wasn't 50-50 for me, I swayed to GET to 50-50 and I figured at that point I would take the flip of the coin. I never aspired to 70% and I don't know if any of us should. But no one warned me that getting too obsessive about swaying could actually RAISE my testosterone levels and I am certain it actually hurt my sway. I want you to have a better sway than me and in order to do that, I want you to let go a little bit of the control aspect and just learn to roll with it. It's not hopeless, it's never hopeless, if it was hopeless the human race would have died out a long time ago!

In nature, even in recent history, we ALL would have ended up having kids of both genders eventually. Our testosterone levels would have fluctuated naturally over the course of time with changing seasons and diet and we would have had boys and girls. It's just nowadays with our modern diets, modern lifestyles, and desire to only have two children, it is HARDER for some of us than it is others. Our bodies size up our situations and think we are large and in charge and that our sons will be capable of spreading our genes around better, so we have sons. That's all. It's not any kind of personal judgement, it's just biology.

My grandma was one of 6 girls and two boys and I have two sisters, two girl cousins, and my brother was the only boy in the mix. But in this generation, we have all boys and only one girl! Genetics aren't cut and dry like you're thinking of them, there IS NO boy gene or girl gene. I will write some about genetics to try and explain what I mean when I say genetic factors.

There is nothing less feminine about having higher testosterone levels. Psychologists have studied in and found NO difference in the attractiveness of women with higher testosterone and lower testosterone. Believe me, I have 4 sons and in NO WAY am I saying women with boys are less feminine, less sexy, less anything in any way or I would be insulting MYSELF! Valerie Grant has 3 sons herself.

Again, I'm so, so very sorry for hurting your feelings, it's difficult to express a train of thought properly sometimes via writing. I hope you can forgive me. ♥

Atomic, you didn't hurt my feelings! Please please don't think that! The facts hurt my feelings. My own biology hurt my feelings. I believe what you write- it all makes sense to me, but I can't say it's encouraging. But nobody *should* encourage me if the facts just line up a different way. That would be, as you point out, irresponsible.
I got very excited thinking all of this might work. I even stupidly went out and got the girl outfit to put under the bed. I really believed until I read that dice rolling essay and the testosterone essay. I just feel like the odds are against me. But you didn't -at ALL- do a single thing to make me feel badly. I get it. The kind of person I am is just way less likely to have girls. But I can't just NOT do the research, NOT ask the questions. How would I know what to do? How could I make a decision about what my sway will be? How would I have found this site? How would I know to order aci-jel from f*cking new zealand? I don't have time on my side to do all of this intense learning and decision making and then go relax for a few months. I can't. So I feel like this just doens't have much hope in working.

[nuthinbutpink]

It just sound like cold feet to me... You're getting close to swaying time and I think it is only natural to freak out a little bit. Atomic wants everyone to be informed and come to your own conclusions about swaying. We have tried our best on here to keep to the facts and not make stuff up that will help you get your girl- we try not to make assumptions on here. Nothing is hopeless and I don't care what kind of body chemistry you have, it is possible to have a girl. All of us HTers for the most part, end up with a 50/50 split which tells me us women can make both and so can our DHs.

Just a note on the 12 probe- I would not advise that. We can talk about in on the HT board but nothing above a 5 with FISH for GS!

[lindi]

Nbp, AS, I am just so thankful you are both so knowledgable and willing to share. Thank you.

[atomic sagebrush]

Just know I'm 100% in your corner and crossing every digit I have for you!